The Terrible Truth About Ed Parker and Chinese Kenpo Karate

Chinese Kenpo Karate Scandal!

I’ve heard many tales of many martial arts that were, shall we say, less than honorable, but the one I heard about Chinese Kenpo Karate, however, is one of the worst I have heard. Unfortunately, I don’t know how true it is, but with the information I present in this article perhaps some one could let me know if they have any light to shed on the truth or falsity of it.
how to learn kenpo book Ed Parker is credited with being the creator of modern Kenpo, putting on the biggest tournament in the world for years, the Internationals, teaching movie stars, including Elvis, and all manner of other deeds. His prowess is quite well known, and his students are legion. Unfortunately, when he first began teaching, while he seemed to demonstrate a talent as a teacher, he was only a brown belt.

In those days he was actually teaching the Heian forms from Shotokan karate, this as illustrated by one of his earliest books. Running out of material to teach his students, he went back to Hawaii and was told to go take a hike, the founder of the system apparently had lost interest in him as a student. I’m not sure, exactly, what the fall out was, but it was perhaps that Ed was teaching without permission.

Ed then ran into a fellow in San Francisco named Jimmy Woo, whose named might have been Jimmy Wu, who knew tremendous and authentic gung fu, but who spoke almost no English. Ed brought Jimmy to Los Angeles, where they lived together, and where Jimmy devised the Kenpo forms, the techniques, and so on. Ed took these forms and techniques and began teaching them as his own.

To complicate matters further, Ed asked Jimmy to write a book with him on what they were doing, and Jimmy spent his days writing kenpo, teaching Ed and some of his students, all while still being deficient in the English language. One day Jimmy saw a rough translation/draft of the book that Ed was planning on turning over to a publisher, and he was surprised to see that his name was not on the cover, or anywhere in the book. This was surprising, because even though Ed was half the team, Jimmy was doing all the work.

Why not my name on book, is what he was supposed to have said. Ed said he would explain, but he had an errand to run, could they take a drive, and Ed would explain on the way. Jimmy got into the car, and Ed drove into Hollywood, but Ed didn’t say a word about the book the whole time. On Hollywood Blvd, there is an Armenian pastry shop there now, Ed let Jimmy out of the car, and drove off.

Jimmy had one single quarter in his pocket, the clothes on his back, and nothing else. With that last quarter he called one of Ed’s students, who he had been teaching. In his broken English he explained what Ed had done, that he didn’t know where he was, or why it had all happened.

He had been teaching, writing, and then, he had been betrayed. Now, is this story true, or is it a pack of lies? If anybody has definite information on this story, I sure would like to know.
monkey boxingThis page has been about Chinese Kenpo Karate.

 

2,133 responses to “The Terrible Truth About Ed Parker and Chinese Kenpo Karate

  1. Thank you for your article. I have heard some stories as well but have not heard this one before about Ed Parker. It is always sad when a student takes the less desirable path. It is even worse when they turn on other Martial Artists that are trying to help them. Do you have any idea what happened to Jimmy?

    Look forward to reading more of your articles.

    • Jimmy apparently got backing from some of Parker’s students and opened his own school. It was located on Hollywood Blvd. for decades. I used to pass by it and look in and wonder about it. It was dark and dingy, had tile floors. I think it is a bakery now. I’d love to find one of his students, find out what happened to him, guy must have stories up the wazoo about those days.

    • Per the article, the person Jimmy Woo called was my father, George Cadinha, and yeah, they left Ed. They kept Jimmy in Los Angeles, and they include: Rich Montgomery, Bart Volk, Dick Trausell, Rick Flores, Ted Tabura, Larry Hall, Bones (can’t recall his name), Gus Hoefling, and of course my father, yep, truth! They pooled their money, and rented the Hollywood Mausoleum, and a few of them couldn’t afford it, so they gave up their apts., and slept in the embalming room, truth, yep! Can you say commitment? 🙂
      After a few years, actor James Hong helped them move to a better facility, also on Hollywood Blvd. No embalming room, haha!
      Later, after my father and the others trailed off, due to marriage, family, etc…the new students were ushered in, and Jimmy moved to Winona Blvd., off of Hollywood Blvd. His students built him a huge structure in his backyard, to teach. Mayor Tom Bradley declared it a church of sorts; it was an interesting ceremony 😉
      Jimmy passed away in 2o14, but we still celebrate his birthday in China Town, Los Angeles, and hopefully will continue to do so for years to come!

    • Having perused this thread and first noticing the prejudiced, inflammatory and highly suspect initial report which is 2nd, 3rd, 4th and 5th hand knowledge and not even knowing or verifying the details of Mr. Parker not using the overly complex and mesmerizing systems of the old Kung Fu styles in his book or in his developing his sophisticated, technical taught, streamlined system on how to defend oneself evidenced by full contact champions, I was left with the nagging afterthought, since neither party to this issue ever stated what exactly happened, that one man took another into his house while feeding and housing him, and letting him teach in his school an older, different style of self-defense, and that same person who supposedly had nothing more than 25 cents in his pocket and whose home was in San Francisco where his wife and child were, was taken conveniently to Hollywood from Pasadena and opened a martial arts school there with nearly all of the other person’s black belts, and somehow Mr. Parker is the bad guy? There’s just too much writer’s liberty in Mr. Case’s blog post.

  2. Parker learned Hawaiian Kempo from William CHow in the 1950’s. Hawaiian Kempo was a traditional Okinawan karate do system brought to Hawaii. He wanted to modernize the system which was, at the time, a traditional rendition of what could never be mistaken for applicable fighting techniques. Parker attempted to upgrade the old-school form into street-applicable science. He failed miserably. While his American Kenpo techniques did make a huge improvement in technical use, they held onto the traditional karate form that has failed so many people in so many fights. The result is an army of kenpo systems that study high-level techniques in front of a mirror, in simulated scenarios, and instructor prompted reactions. The martial artists never become fighters. When they do spar, they use none of what is taught in kenpo. Instead, they revert to kickboxing-like tactics. When you study through two or three v ersions of the system, it becomes apparent that Bruce Lee’s JKD Trapping influenced the development somehow. There is, however, very little Chinese influence in the system. Parker applied the trapping inspirations with a traditional karate body motion. His claim to Chinese ancestry is, at best, third generation; inherited from the old Okinawan karate do systems like Goju Ryu Karate Do.
    I have been a dedicated martial artist for 25 years. I started in the modern kenpo systems such as Ed Parker’s Original Kenpo System, Action Kenpo Karate, and a couple of others. I have also studied on the traditional Okinawan side, and the traditional korean side. In order for something to become Chinese in origin, it must adapt a CHinese body motion. For instance, a Japanese Karate Master cannot go to China and pass himself off as a Kung Fu Master; the body motions are completely different. There have been a few since Parker who achieved his goal for him. CHinese Kenpo and Mong Su Dom Tai Chinese Karate managed to set up mirror systems that incorporated Kung Fu and Indonesian body motion into their new generation techniques. When they move they look like Silat, Tai Chi, WIng Chun, and Chow Gar masters who are influenced by Wudan, Wushu, and/or Shaolin.
    As a final thought, if all traditional systems would eliminate the katas and set techniques from their systems, after extracting all the basic movements, and then teach and practice those movements the way a prize fighter does, most systems would develop high levels of applicability. Practical theory and proof of practicality are not the same thing. No second hand information can prepare you for a first hand confrontation.-Bruce Lee

    • To say it has very little Chinese influence is not true… Okinawan Kenpo is directly linked to Shaolin Kenpo or Chaun-fa.. The principles are the same… and both very effective. I studied both for several years and they are different but Chinese Kung fu influenced Okinawan Kenpo greatly..

      • and I agree with you on the forms.. or katas.. if you removed them.. or just used them for competition… and taught actual application of the technique you would have very practical fighters. in a ring or on the street… and yes… you are 100% right you can tell a Chinese Kenpo master and an Okinawan Kenpo master apart even if they switched uniforms…. one will move the body smoother and one will look more forceful.. I am sure you know which by the way I describe…. I don’t want to say… Which I prefer because I respect anyone who takes years to devote to an art, and pour their blood sweat and tears into it.

      • Jeremy,

        Check out the youtube video titled Interview with Tony Martinez Sr. He studied under Ed Parker. In the interview he is a 9th degree black belt in Kenpo, started out boxing, after 50 fights with 45 knockouts he moved into Kenpo. He even tells how he beat Carlos “Chuck” Norris in a tournament match. I really haven’t been unable to verify any of this, but I would like to be able too!

    • Haven’t enjoyed a piece such as this in a long time.. Thank You.
      #originality

  3. I started training with Sifu James Wing Woo in 1977 and he is like a second father to me. That story of Parker and Sifu is essentially true regarding the book, but he went on to build a successful practice and a dedicated group of students. He always teaches the classes himself, 363 days a year. Sifu Woo just celebrated his 90th birthday Sept 2012, and he is still teaching Kung Fu and Tai Chi daily from his gym in Hollywood CA (and the workouts are still tough!). Some good links for more info:
    http://stevensprung.wordpress.com/2009/11/08/tai-chi-by-james-wing-woo/
    http://rumsoakedfist.org/viewtopic.php?p=116442#p116579
    This recent book from Sifu Woo is filled with wisdom and his experience
    http://www.lulu.com/shop/view-cart.ep;jsessionid=19D29DC82FA08E35DAAB43E3EE41569C
    Give yourself a gift and stop by the gym and take some classes from Sifu.
    Best, Bill Nadal

  4. It makes me sick when I hear how big and bad Ed Parker was.
    As much respect as I may have for Parker’ s work in bringing it to the masses, I lost quite a bit when I heard through very reliable sources that he linked out of a fight with boxer Milo Savage.
    Instead, Parker went and begged Gene La Bell to take the fight.
    Why did Parker refuse the challenge?
    He claims to have done some backyard boxing and that along with his size should have been a plus.
    Fact is that Savage a brutal launcher would have cleaned Parkers clock.
    Savage was a little over the hill, but as Ray Mercer proved when he put UFC chump Tim Sylvia to sleep, old or not a boxer can retain punching power well into his 50’s…George Foreman who?
    I knew Milio Savage very well.
    He was my boxing coach while I was training in Martial Art to earn my BB.
    We had many conversations over lunch and a brisket.
    They sicked La Bell on him and made him wear a go top.
    BTW…Gene had a lot of friends who were, you know like the guys in the Sopranos.
    A lot of intimidation.
    La Bell won hands down, but the big bad Hawaiian, the creator of American kenpo the great Ed Parker refused to accept the challenge, that’s a fact.

    • There is a famous statement that applies here, “Better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than speak (or post) and remove all doubt.” Unfortunately for you, Monfongo, I was there at the fight. And I was the one who contacted Ed Parker about the challenge. EVERYTHING YOU POSTED IS PURE CRAP! Here are the facts:
      * No one challenged Ed Parker.
      * The braggart challenge was to ANY martial artist. Because Savage was in Salt Lake I wanted to accept it.
      * I called Ed Parker in California to get his permission. He laughed out loud and asked me not to do so (He didn’t want Savage killed). Still chuckling, he said he’d ask his friend Gene Lebell to accept. I was disappointed but out of respect I agreed. The idea of Parker refusing a challenge is ridiculous and anyone who passes on these lies is an ASS. (For your information: TRUTH – Ed Parker was a “Bralah,” he grew up on the streets of Honolulu as a street fighter. After he developed his version of Kenpo he was in seven serious fights in his life. (a “serious” fight to Ed Parker was four or more armed attackers; clubs, knives, tire irons, bottles, etc. THE LONGEST OF THOSE FIGHTS LASTED 7 SECONDS!) Kenpo, as Ed Parker restructured it, was not a sport, it was not a game it was LIFE AND DEATH; The QUICK & THE DEAD!)
      * The night of the fight at the Salt Lake Fairgrounds, Savage entered the ring wearing heavy bag gloves
      ( the kind that have a heavy plastic insert over the knuckles). I personally complained to the referee. Gene laughed it off and said, “Let him wear brass knuckles if he wants.”
      * The fight was a total mismatch. LeBell toyed with Savage, pretended to have been hurt by a couple of body shots; and then stepped behind Savage and used the gi top to execute a scarf strangle. Savage was out in seconds.
      * They had difficulty in reviving Savage so I ripped off his right (black) boxing shoe and performed Kuatsu which brought him around.

      I am sick of hearing these phony stories from punks who never really knew my friend and brother. Unfortunately for them, there are still a few of us greybeards who are still around who were there and can set the record straight. Here is another FACT. You can’t make yourself taller but attempting to tear down the reputation of giants. I started with Ed Parker in 1954 when he was still at BYU. He was not only my only instructor, through the decades he became my friend and brother.

      Mills Crenshaw

      • Mr. Crenshaw,
        Thank you for stepping in the digital internet ring and keeping the record straight. I sadly never met Ed Parker, but I have met my share of his students and trained with them, such as Mike Pick, Huk Planas, Lee Wedlake, Skip Hancock, and more at the seminar/camp level, and private lessons with Mr. Welake. All of them said, Mr. Parker was the Alpha male in the room during those days. I can’t imagine Mr. Parker backing down, thanks for confirming none of this happened.

        Salute,
        Steve Shaffer
        Tallahassee, FL

        • Steve, Mills has verified nothing. He lies as demonetrated by 1. I never knew Ed, 2. He was never nanmed in a lawsuit in the Deseret News and no such article existr, I believe it is Dec. 1, 2001.3. Ed beat 5 armed wailors in 7 seconds armed with clubs and knives).
          You are obviously one of the brainwawhed that needs to believe this crap

      • Mr. Crenshaw,

        Loved reading your reply. I’m a student of Greg Payne in Chuck Sullivan and Vic LeRoux’s IKCA system. I’m interested in more stories of Ed and those around that time period if you wouldn’t mind sharing some with me. I love passing these stories on to my students. Chuck and Vic also love telling stories. My email is PUMA.Kenpo@gmail.com.

        Is your name Mills Crenshaw or a nickname? I thought Crenshaw was the name of a street where one of the dojo’s was located. We have a technique called Crenshaw High Five.

        Hope to get in touch with you. Much Respect.

        Osu!

      • Thank god someone out there is speaking some truth, there really is so much BS on the internet about Mr. Parker and it’s ridiculous. I’ve been looking around and it’s pretty much the same negative story about how ” he ran out of material” and was no longer recognized by Mr. Chow. Looks to me like this was a false story perpetuated by the Tracy brothers. http://www.tracyskaratestudios.com/martial-arts-history.htm#How_Tracy's_Kenpo_Jiu-Jitsu_Karate_Began. They got the axe because they were misrepresenting the ideals of the system. What did they do? They started a story they gave them the “good lighting”. Back in the day much of the good bits of the system were hidden so you could not misuse it and guess what, none of the Tracy guys fully understand the system lol!. Suckers… jokes on you. Even in death Mr. Parker had his way. Mr. Parker has plenty of material available on Amazon if you interested in the real story.

      • Good lord, this just reeks of so much BS! Ed Parker was out for a quick buck…period. His “modernized” Kenpo was nothing more than his get-rich-quick scheme. Don’t trust anyone who invents a new system before they’ve mastered the one they were learning…and don’t trust a sensei who’s too fat to do a sit-up.
        A guy too fat to run a block or do a sit up beats 5 guys with weapons in 7 seconds? Ha! Whatever. If it were true, he surely didn’t do it using his Kenpo.

  5. Ed was a fraud. I was at his school for 6 years, and in that time he taught two times and they weren’t even the full 2 hours.
    One serious question comes from Ed’s own credentials. Mills Crenshaw has presented us with Ed’s black belt certificate from William K.S. Chow. Why from Mills? Why not from Ed Jr. or his wife Lelani? In the 60s we asked to see Ed’s certificate. He said he didn’t know where it was. But the one presented by Mills Crenshaw says Ed is a shodan or 1st. degree black belt. So where did Ed get all the degrees leading up to his 10th. degree? And many say Ed never got a black, but rather his highest belt was hrown.
    So let’s get to the “real Ed Parker.” I trained at the West Los Angeles school, sometimes referred to as the “Santa Monica” school as it was on Santa Monica Blvd. I trained Monday through Friday in the afternoons and evening classes, and then went in on Saturday, which is when Dan Inosanto taught. So I basically lived there. I used to train with Larry Hartsell when he came in on Saturdays, and GOD was that an experience. Classes there were taught on Tuesday and Thursday by Scott Loring- a truly PHENOMENAL fighter. The Monday-Wednesday class was taught by “Stormin Norman Pattiz.” Not even close to Scott’s level but a very competent teacher. And Norm even developed a couple of really good techniques- one called the “high five” and the other the “back knuckle five.” After Scott left his classes were taken over by Russ Fineman. Russ was a small man- but he cut his teeth sparring with Scott Loring. Russ was like 5’6″ and 135, Scott was 6 feet tall and 210. Russ fought like a cross between a game cock and a cat. After Russ left Paul Dalton took over the classes on Tuesday-Thursday, and Paul has a deep seated hate for Ed Parker due to Ed totally screwing him over. The reason for this little history lesson is point something out- you never see any reference to Ed PArker teaching. And all his classes at Pasadena, the home school were taught by people like Frank Trejo, Dave Hebler or others.
    Now the plot thickens. One of Ed’s teachers, Robert Libby, had left the school and was teaching at a health club. So Robert got inot a verbal arguemnt with a PArker green belt. The green belt was bad mouthing Paul Dalton, a very good friend and teacher of Robert’s, so Bob finally told the guy to shit up and walked. The green belt called ed and told him that Robert had torn up his black belt certificate in front of the entire gym, urinated on it and said “Ed PArker isn’t shit.” Ed Believed it and called the health club. He told the owner “Bob goes or I come down there and start hurting people.” So the guy told Robert he had to leave. And Robert was a key figure in rebuilding Ed’s schools after Ed was closed down by the IRS, told Ed he would teach for free until the schools got back on their feetm and repainted and washed down 3 of Ed’s schools for free. And can you oimagine a guy urinating in public in a posh Westwood health club? That is how Ed Parker pays back those that are loyal to him. Ed was a scumbag, a thief, a liar, a fraud, and I beklieve mentally ill.
    So did Robert take this lying down? NO!! He called Ed at his house from the phone of Tom Bleecker. He told Ed “when and where do you want to fight?’ (I do not know all the exact details of this exchange, but I do know that Tom Bleecker and Gary Brandoliono were there). A few hours later Lelani called Robert at home and said “please don’t kill my husband! He has a very bad heart and could die if he fights.”
    So this is why Ed never trained and never did much of anything. He was nothing but a fat-mouthed coward.
    And as one last note- if you are studying Ed Parker’s American Karate you are throwing your money away. The techniques are crap and canot work in a real fight. As many others have mentioned, why isn’t there one video of a Kenpo being used in a real fight? Because they are a fraud and do not work, just like their creator.

    • To be told is to be lied to. To be shown is to be fooled. But to feel is to beleave. You are a cowerd. You are a parrot. Were wear your words when he was alive.

    • You need to loosen your tin foil hat pal. Get into a no holes barred fight with a kenpo practioner than let us know how ineffective the art is…dumbass

      • You should read the whole thing. Seems a lot of people say what I say, Another Kenpo black belt talks about Ed getting his ass kicked. Others agree that I chose Ed off. Now please submit one video where Ed even looks decent. I can post numerous ones where he looks pathetic. Now go loosen your tin foil hat.

      • Dear Mr Flow First,
        I know this is an old thread, and I’m a couple years late on this reply…BUT, I have been a dedicated Brazilian JiuJitsu/Submissions Wrestler since 2009, and Kajukenbo practitioner since 2014, and have worked as a Bouncer for the last 12 years at nearly a dozen different bars and nightclubs in the city of St Louis and East St Louis. I am a multiple time NAGA SuperHeavyweight Intermediate & Expert Divisions Champion, and a very strong supporter, as well as participant, in bareknuckle full contact NO HOLDS BARRED fighting. Meaning fighting, REAL fighting, with no judges, no points awarded, no rounds, no time limits, no rules whatsoever, with the only exception being that no weapons of any kind are allowed. Eye gouging, headbutting, elbows, groin attacks, biting, fish hooking, kicking and stomping downed opponents, are ALL permissable. For that is the true nature of real unarmed hand-to-hand combat. No gloves, handwraps, or protective equipment of any kind is permitted. For that too, is the nature of hand-to-hand combat, and the way in which an actual attack on the street will occur. I am also an active participant in the practice known as “Dojo Storming”…meaning I travel to different schools which claim to teach effective self defense that will work in an actual streetfight against a determined attacker. I participate in a class, sometimes several classes, to assess the skill level and ability of the instructor/s and all students holding a rank denoting them as an “expert”. And then at an appropiate time (such as after class) i respectfully challenge anyone at said school to PROVE their competency as a martial artist, and expert of their respective style of martial arts, to a fight under the above stated conditions. Some may frown upon this, or find this to disrespectful be offensive. But likewise, i personally I find it offensive for a person to pay money to an instructor who teaches his students bullshit which will not work in a real fight, and then call it “real self defense”. These places are called “McDojos”, and from what I have found over the years, most Kenpo schools are the very epitome of the McDojo and are a complete and total joke. As long as you pay the money and show up, and demonstrate your proficiency in the bullshit you have been taught, u will advance thru the ranks to black belt in a fairly short time. Some schools in as little as 2 years. “If you can afford it, they will award it!” I have fought DOZENS of these Kenpo “experts” under the above conditions, and every last one of them was a complete joke. Many I beaten without ever having to throw a single punch, using more or less very simple and basic Folkstyle & Greco Roman Wrestling techniques taught to highschool kids all across the country. Now, in regards to your above comment, KENPO, as taught by the late Ed Park, and the Tracy Bros., is a totally ineffective bullshit system, and i have proven it to be so many times, and will continue to prove it is bullshit for as long as I can..until I am too old and frail to do so. I welcome ANY and ALL Ed Park Kenpo “experts”, or Tracy’s Kenpo “experts”, to PROVE to me that their bullshit system is not bullshit, in a full contact NO HOLDS BARRED fight under the above stated conditions. This is a challenge which I am always ready and willing to accept at any time.

        For any American Kenpo or Tracy’s Kenpo black belt who wishes to prove his competency in his system and accept this challenge, i can be reached by email at:
        kaju4ever1984@gmail.com

        PLEASE UNDERSTAND THAT I TAKE THIS VERY SERIOUSLY, AND I WOULD MUCH APPRECIATE RESPONSES FROM THOSE WHO ARE AS EQUALLY SERIOUS ABOUT ACCEPTING THIS CHALLENGE.

        Matt Jack

        • Dear Matt Jack, you are spinning your wheels here and I say that with respect for you. In the 1960s we went to other schools as well to learn. We also had new ideas coming in that were effective. But what is so sad is I have seen people I used to know that have totally sold out for money and forgotten was taught to them by great people like Larry Hartsell.
          Joshua Pestaner, after running his fat mouth and lying, would not take part in a boxing match with rules that had a nice pay day for showing up, and that is because he is a coward and a punk. Steve Shaffer ran from the thought of me like a coward with me just resisting his techniques with zero offensive moves. I also backed down Ed Parker.
          But what has gotten so bad in Kenpo is the frauds that are just teaching insanity like Steve Stewart in Canada with his “chi knockouts” and fake college degrees to schools that never existed. You have John La Tourette who moves clouds at 5,000 feet in the air from the front door of his dojo with his “chi” and claims college degrees he has never earned. You have Ron Chapel who claims a PhD yet will never say where it is from. He also teaches “sub-level 4 Kenpo” which is nerve based nonsense and has zero efficacy or science. And Kenpo people are silent because they are all scammers as well with cult like practices.
          I respect what you are doing but they will never accept your challenge as they are spineless cult members with zero real skills.
          Good luck to you in your training and have a good life!
          Robert Libby

          • Myron Sawicki

            I studied with you around 1968. I was 13 at the time. You probably remember me as “hammer fist” I wasn’t any good at it so I went on to other endeavors. I remember Scott Loring, Russ Feinman, and Paul Dalton well. Whatever happened to them? Also what have you been up to for the last 50 years? Look forward to hearing from you.

          • Myron? Yes, I do remember you! You were tall and sort of gangly like many young kids. And I remember your dad would come and often watched the classes. As I remember him he was short with glasses. And I do remember you as “Hammerfist Sawicki.” I think Paul Dalton gave you that nickname. I remember one time you said to Scott Loring “Scott, can I use the chicken kick?” and Scott said “You can use anything you can find in the school.”
            I have done a lot of stuff and travelled a lot. I have been to 16 countries and now live in Thailand. I have mostly taught things to people and was a professor in Thailand for awhile.
            Nice to hear from you and hope all is well with you!

          • Myron Sawicki

            Yep, that’s me. But I am fat now. I was a dumb and immature kid back then. Congratulations on becoming an accomplished martial artist and for living an interesting life. I am curious about what happened to those guys. Are Scott Loring, Russ Fineman, and Paul Dalton still around? And what about that guy who crashed the window, Ed Wenke? (Is that his name?). I also remember your brother. How is he doing? Give him my regards.

            I am also interested on how Parker screwed Dalton. I wasn’t aware of all the psycho drama in the back ground. Again, I was a kid. But looking back with the lens of an adult, I did see some of the signs you were talking about. I never saw Parker train nor saw him demonstrate his skills. Legends often do exceed the man who actually carried it.

            For me, I went on to become an attorney and criminal prosecutor. But I am retired now. My passion is the shooting sports and, believe it or not, martial arts concepts are readily transferable to obtaining the skill to shoot with speed and accuracy. Concepts like the shooters mental zone, muscle memory, and “slow is smooth & smooth is fast” are taught in defensive pistol and rifle classes. I hold a sharp shooter classification which is comparable to a brown belt and I working towards expert marksman. I would be interested in hearing more details on your career path. Thanks for replying.

        • Charles Wallace

          For one thing, all you Scholars of Kenpo, your Mix of What?. There was never a Chinese or Okinawan “Kenpo”, Your minds are in the dust. Chinese Kempo, Okinawan Kempo or Chinese boxing if you research your own Questions, seems you Don’t. Goju is Okinawan and it was Developed in Japan, then Hawaii, as Hawaiian Kempo developed by William Chows Father and associates. Never become Kenpo Until it came to the States by Parker. William Chow Did give Mr, Parker his Black belt to Forth. Forth Being the Highest Level of that system of Kempo at the time. Tenth degree in any Kenpo, didn’t accrue until in the States. All you people trying to make false statements you know nothing about. So it tells me, You have not lived a life of any Martial Arts, since your Dis Respect to anyone teaching or training, show exactly who and what you are today. Fighting in any manner is for Fools, broken Noses, Calif lower Ears and Brain damage before you are 40 years old. As we witness with all these mouth warrior, who coming to any kind of Training, is as foul and dis Respectful as we witness in all these comments and personal attacks on people who are gone. So you again claim your willingness to get stooped and ignorant, claiming you are some Super man, puffed up as we witness again in all this generation of Gladiators and Brain dead ego’s. There is nothing to Prove, after watching all you who claim No rules bare knuckle fighting. Well we will see you in Prison, or worse Dead,, Yea No Rules.. Are you kidding me, and what Back Getto are you fighting in. We had your kind come in wanting to prove their stupidity, and again that’s exactly what it was. Their “rules, to fit the new system of Crawling on the Mat, No rules my ass. When my System, the only one hitting the Mat, was the person I just defended against. Period, Yes I am, Chinese Kempo, Okinawan Goju Ryu, eishin Ryu iaijutsu, American Isshan Ryu, American Kenpo and my system of Respect and Honor, not all the Fools Fighting and puffed up trying to prove something still, Mouth skills not Marital skills. IsshanGAK, American Made Kenpo. Like you would even know of that 50 year legacy, and that’s because I shut your foulness and dis respect off in the 90s, and instead Trained People of Pride and Honor. Go back to your Streets, Find out how fast, even in the Streets there are Rules, Everyone Goes to Jail, and maybe Prison if you are Brain Dead enough from your Ego’s Salute

          • Ed “The Sham” Parker DID NOT earn a black belt. He earned BROWN but not even 1st black, much less 4th black. This has been proven conclusively. You are just another dumbass who wasted years training in a completely bullshit “art” of Kenpo but would not last 30 seconds in a street fight.

        • Maurice Smith

          Why are you even doing Kajukenbo then? The founder of that style had a rather high opinion of Ed Parker and Al Tracy. You were a bouncer at 12 different places in 12 years? What kind of a retard are you that you can’t keep a job? Are you being fired because you can’t cut it and get your pussy ass kicked, or do you go around assaulting everyone like the bro-dude nut you sound like? Because storming dojos sounds like a mental illness. Are you trying to compensate for a small penis or cope with your latent homosexuality? That would probably explain your affinity with rasslin and grinding on other men. Mostly, you sound like a Bullshido troll, every bit as full of shit and making up hilarious stories as the “Kung-Fu” masters who routinely beat up dozens of men on “da streez!” Who the fuck made your lame ass the arbiter of martial arts integrity? I have no doubt there are tons of McDojos in Kenpo and every style…probably creeping into plenty of MMA and BJJ gyms now too. You’re clearly one of those low I.Q. tards who can’t quite comprehend that there’s a difference between bad techniques, bad styles and bad training methods. Most schools aren’t training people to be cage fighters and that’s OK. They’ll get in shape, learn something fun and if it’s lively training, be better off in most impromptu self defense situations than they would have been without anything. Martial arts is not just for closet-cases like you trying to prove your manhood, it’s also for old folks to stay healthy, little children to learn respect and how to avoid fights and for women looking to get in shape. The funny thing is, when someone does use traditional martial arts in MMA, the average low I.Q. retard like you will claim it’s not the art but kickboxing, completely clueless that American style kickboxing was created by Kenpo guys and traditional Karate guys and that every kick and every western-boxing punch is represented in the Kenpo techniques and forms. And your storming of striking styles with grappling wouldn’t mean much anyway. As a lifelong Judoka and wrestler, I could storm Muay Thai and boxing gyms and win a lot too, but that would hardly make boxing and Muay Thai non-effective for self defense and just enjoyments for the amazing martial arts and sports that they are. Grappling has an unfair advantage that we can train it 100% realistically at full speed every single day. I can’t find any info on you anywhere and no replies to your email. That’s very interesting. Why don’t you put up videos of your underground super secret fights with illegal no-rules rule sets, or at least your NAGA grappling matches. Show us these dojo storming matches you claim to have had or you’re a fucking fraud and a liar on the level of George Dillman.

        • I think you are full of shit.

  6. I knew the truth would come out.
    Parker was to a degree “hype” more than skill.
    He used to create techniques and carry them around on index cards.
    Instead of training, he’s writing stuff most that doesn’t work.
    Listen, the man has passed and maybe these things should have been brought up when he was alive, but the truth must be made public.
    Every Parker kenpoist I’ve seen spar or fight never uses the system techniques.
    Now, kajukenbo guys those are different animals.
    Most can fight and a great majority have pretty decent boxing skills.
    Parker did a lot to popularize and promote the arts, but on a skill-fight- condition level he was not up to par.
    Just my 2 cents.

  7. My friend “Willy” Shakespeare said it best: “Hark, hark how the dogs do bark; the beggars are coming to town.” These fictional tales about Ed Parker are, as “Willy” would put it, are: “a tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying NOTHING!”

    Most martial artists have never been in a serious fight in their life. Ed Parker had seven that I know of. (See my response to Monfongo for the definition of a “Serious fight.) Ron and Vito you are very brave to bad mouth “The Old Man” now that he’s gone. I don’t know you, you must be young bucks to so ignorantly shoot your mouths off. I’m 77 so I’m sure you would be far more than a match for me; and I was only trained in the hard school by Ed Parker whom you consider a fraud so I’m sure my poor skills are no match for your exalted expertise. However, if you would like to visit Salt Lake I would be happy to drag my weary bones on the matt and let you show me the error of my ways. We can use the studio facilities of one of my students, Tony Martinez at 4654 West 3500 South. Or perhaps you would prefer to workout with Tony, he’s 5′ 3,” white haired and only age 62 and he too was trained be me in what you consider to be a “fraudulent” system. Either of us would be happy to entertain you…bring your lunch.

    Cordially,
    Mills Crenshaw

    • What these MMA fans don’t understand is that Ed Parker was in the process of helping others begin dojos, promoting Kenpo in America, working in films as an actor/fight coordinator, Elvis body guard etc. When would a man as busy as Ed Parker be able to teach regularly? There are many bad schools, that is obvious and backed up by videos on youtube. There are also great schools that are ran by black belts who devoted their entire lives to Karate. Don’t get me wrong, MMA produces incredible prize fighters… that study martial arts! Imagine what these MMA fighters(who devote their lives to different Martial art principles would do outside of a ring to someone without a cup, referee, mouthguard, gloves, and a padded cage. That is when you would see Karate in action, not in a tournament governed by rules concerning the safety of the fighters.

      • Matt, the answer to your question is easy to find. Just go to YouTube and watch some candid videos made on people’s cellphones if real street fights where an MMA practioner is in the fight. It’s just that simple. The reality is that without a referee, the MMA guys don’t have to stop until they’re done strangling you or breaking your arms. I’m not an MMA practitioner but I know that no American Kenpo guy would be victorious against an MMA trained fighter.

        • What about Chuck Liddel….isn’t he a high level blacbelt in Kempo? Seems to have done fairly well in MMA if you ask me….

          • Sometimes the cognitive dissonance here is so thick you can cut it with a knife!
            Chick Liddell was just promoted to 8th degree in Kempo. But he never used it in MMA fights! He rarely even kicks and is basically a great slugger with brilliant takedown defenses! He is one of my all-time favorite fighters and a class act, but never used Kempo in the octagon!
            Please show where he uses Kempo!

          • Easy man….I never said he used any Kempo techniques in his MMA fights…I was only responding to the question of why there were no Kempo guys in MMA….which there clearly are. Whether or not they use their Kempo training in MMA is up for debate, but I would imagine the individual fighters would be the ones to say how useful it was for them. While they may not go and bust out all of Thundering Hammers in an MMA fight, that’s not the intent of the system. I’m a Kenpo-nobody, but I do know that part of the intent is to provide recognizable combat models that can be tailored to the individual and the scenario they are faced with. The techniques were never intended to be followed verbatim, but to provide openings for different movements depending on how the fight played out. Full disclosure, I tend to agree with several of your points (not all the Parker bashing, as I’ve been exposed to both sides of that argument for years), but the parts about fight realism and fake martial arts (we’re both fans of Joe Rogan as well).

    • Mills, as part of a job I had for the city cleaning drunks and druggies off the streets, putting them in a paddy wagon, and dropping them off at jail to sober up, I’ve been in lots of serious fights with grown men. Unfortunately for us, to present a more “helpful” image the city did not allow us any weapons or restraints (e.g. Handcuffs). We were only permitted a flashlight of any size or design we chose. I studied Kenpo for awhile too. So I’ll clear it up for you right now very simply–American Kenpo does NOT work in a real fight. I know from experience. In a real fight, a guy doesn’t throw a low speed punch and hold it there while you work your 15 different counter moves on him–and that’s what you’d need for that joke of a system to work.
      Parker trained Elvis Prestley and Elvis even earned his black belt from Parker. Have you ever seen Elvis’s karate? You Tube it. You’ll be embarrassed for him.
      I hope you never have to defend yourself using your Kenpo techniques because you’ll get hurt or killed.

      • IF you take the time to exam the method to todays fighting culture has changed and everyone now thinks they are bad boy MMA fighters oddly kenpo was evolving and was a form of MMA for decades as was Jun Fan.
        You can’t compare Elvis from 60/70’s who was a performer not a pro fighter and comparing MMA to be superior is a farce as well. A real fight becomes animalistic that is a brawl in my book. Ultimate means death no matter the system used its a free for all in that scenario. I have used Kenpo and it does work of course to perform it as taught was a fantasy even Parker told students that most people take things literally and never understood the foundation lost in the “magic” That said. if you sparred it it becomes real the science behind Kenpo was a basis to build on and be able to use them in real life. Just like playing a chord or scale in music as I see your avatar seriously when have you used a 2 octave scale in a song ? You get my point…

    • Ed Parker couldn’t fight his way out of a wet napkin. That’s why he tried surrounding himself with REAL fighters like Benny Urquidez and Joe Lewis but they quickly realized Ed was all bullshit.

  8. Dear Mills,
    You are so full of crap- to be blunt. Why wouldn’t Ed fight Robert Libby? Ed was like 42 and Robert was 21. OK, Ed was older, but why did Lelani call for Ed? Why did Ed duck the Milo Savage fight? Why did Larry Hartsell call Ed a “Kenpo clown.” Why did Ed never train, compete, or teach? You say he had 7 street fights- you are a liar. And against 4 o 5 armed attackers- now who is the liar and fool Mills? If you know anything about fighting, you know that 1 armed attacker can be serious. But 4 to 5 with “knives and clubs”- man you can sling the BS. Ed never fought anybody as he would have dropped dead. Lelani begged Robert Libby not to “kill my husband.” She knew his heart was very bad- look at how he died. So you can quote the noble bard all you want- Ed was an out of shape wind bag, liar, thief, and a fraud. He never got a black belt from Chow, was promoted to 5th. degree by his cronies, and then promoted again to 10th. degree by cronyism.
    Just look at the videos he is in- he looks HORRIBLE!!!! We never knew he was that pathetic as he NEVER did anything. He came in, talked a little bit, took the money, and went home. And if you think Ed looks good in these videos you know less than nothing about martial arts or fighting, which is obviously the case as you state that Ed didn’t think it was a real fight unless against 4 to 5 armed attackers.
    The thing we are glad about is that hits on this site have sky-rocketed, and exposing Ed and Kenpo for the fraud that it is may save somebody from getting clobbered.
    So Mills, curl up with a good book after you put on your Spider Man PJs and fantasize as to how great Ed and Kenpo are- you are a fool and liar like your mentor.

    • You are right. Ed Parker was an obvious fraud. One need not have known him to be aware of that. His disgrace is in his videos. Look at what he did on that Lucy show – I thought all the negative things I heard about him were just sour grapes – until I saw that. But please do not knock true Kenpo. American Kenpo – Ed Parker’s hoax – and Chu’an Fa Chinese Kenpo are two very different things.

      As I understood it, Ed Parker broke off from an art – not Kenpo, but Kempo – after learning far too little to do what he eventually did. Creating a fabricated art with a stolen name, and declaring himself a Super Grand Master. Early on, Ed Parker wore a white gi, as Kempo Karateka do. He changed it to black and completed the theft from Chu’an Fa by taking the look as well. But he did not steal the art – he did not have the skill to mimic it.

    • Michael Brooks

      It took you 6 years of Kenpo training to realize it was a fraud? Larry Hartsell’s website: ‘His martial development includes high rankings in several recognized arts including a long-time and much-valued association with Kenpo Karate’s Ed Parker. “Bruce Lee showed me what was possible,” Larry remembers, “and Ed Parker gave me my fighting spirit.”’ http://www.jkdassoc.com/larry-hartsell-an-american-icon/

    • While this post is is not directed at the late Ed Parker I have to say that I find any statement made by a person or third party saying that a martial artist took out 4 to 5 armed attackers as beyond any reasonable belief. The only time I have heard of anything coming close to this was a corroborated (by multiple people who were present) account of a Japanese Wado-Ryu 4th Dan instructor back in the 1960’s who I shall not mention by name. He took out four large guys in rapid succession but they were all unarmed. They were all laid out like road kills! He would always advocated that we should get into street fights to put our skills to the test. I recall one week our own instructor turning up to run the class (He was around 6′ 4″ or so) and he looked as though he had gone through a car windshield. He told me that he had been sparring with this Japanese instructor. Our instructor was a regional champion!

      • Hey Sir i have to agree with you on that one. I got into with a guy and friends showed up, and I barely got outta there. I was able to handle two of them and get to my weapon before the others knew what was going on. What a mess I was!!

  9. As I read your post I actually laughed. I had this mental picture of a Chihuahua yapping at a Great Dane. You sir are a childish fool and I dismiss you without argument.

    To those who are serious researchers and are interested in historic fact rather than inane bluster, I refer you to Master of the arts Ted Sumner, now a Kenpo Tenth Dan. Ted, whom I am honored to call friend, Is a true Warrior. There is no infantile blather about whether or not his Kenpo was “real,” whether or not he could actually defend himself IF attacked. As a twenty-three year old Vietnam vet (He looked like he was only 17) he went under Deep Cover in the life and death world of narcotics trafficking. For him, Kenpo was not a game, a sport, or an art; it was Life and Death. Kenpo saved Ted Sumner’s life on numerous occasions and at that time he was only a third Dan. Ask Ted Sumner about Ed Parker. The yapping of these know-nothing puppies is, and should be dismissed as, the drunken mouthings of adolescents. But Ted Sumner is a blooded warrior. He was attacked, with intent to kill, by murderers, gang members and multiple armed attackers. His assessment you can take to the bank. He’s been there and his Kenpo is vouchsafed in blood. Ask him what he thinks of Ed Parker and what his opinion is of those who are now trying to tarnish his reputation. If you really care you can read Ted Sumner’s documented history in the book, “Deep Cover Cop.” Ted is now a white haired “greybeard;” but don’t make the mistake of assuming he no longer has the skill or the passion. That blunder could cost you the use of an arm, a leg; or your life. Yes, we all grow older. Just before his death Ed Parker had white hair and had put on weight. But he was the Master of the art of Kenpo. He was a true warrior. The pathetic clowns who try to besmirch his memory will never know what he knew because they only run their mouths… Ed Parker engaged his brain. Ask Ted Sumner what he thought of Ed Parker. He knows. As for you Ron Morgan, years ago I wrote this poem which was included in Ed Parker’s tribute to Elvis. It fits you perfectly:
    “The Jackals:”
    The muffled drums are silent now,
    but ere the dirge could fade;
    a louder cadence drowned them out,
    an ugly new parade.

    Artless hangers-on typed out
    a never ending stream,
    of fact-less books and manuscripts
    and each one had this theme:

    “You should not love the King now dead,
    he lived ignobly,
    glory for valiant deeds if ought,
    the praise belongs to me!”

    The jackals gather round the crypt,
    and sniff the fetid air
    for hints of gold and favors
    that live no longer there.

    With empty bellies and empty minds
    they rummage through the roans
    then snap their jaws and lift their legs
    and gnaw their master’s bones;

    then skulk away for fitful naps
    in reason’s darkened lair,
    to dream of gold and favors
    that live no longer there.

    Mills Crenshaw

  10. PS:

    Ed Parker didn’t “duck” the Savage fight. He was never challenged. It happened exactly as I stated. Remember, little Ronney, I was there, you certainly weren’t.

    “Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than open your mouth and remove all doubt.”

  11. Tom Bleecker
    4:28 PM (6 hours ago)

    to me
    It’s a complete mystery to me. Off hand, I can’t recall knowing anyone named Ron Morgan. Also, while I knew Bob Libby, this is the first I’ve heard of Bob challenging Ed Parker to a fight. It might be a good idea to contact Bob and ask him.
    Best
    —–Original Message—–
    From: Mills Crenshaw
    To: Tom Bleecker
    Sent: Tue, Mar 11, 2014 2:00 pm
    Subject: This Idiot claims…

    Tom,

    This idiot claims you as a witness to his crazy story. Do you have any first hand knowledge?

    Mills

    • From what I’ve been able to gather, the reason you may not have known about this incident is that Bob was known for being loud and clowning around. Most of his story doesn’t hold up unless you understood that. More than likely, he was holding a phone, but it wasn’t connected to anyone as he made his threats while horsing around. If you think hard about his story it doesn’t make sense, he says Mr. Parker shut his class down, and Bob challenged Mr. Parker to fight over the phone, but later said he didn’t because Mrs. Parker asked him not to. Nothing of this story can be verified, and it just doesn’t make sense that Mr. Parker would have threatened anyone, while making someone shut down a class yet back away from a fight after being threatened by Bob? Bob is just a jerk who wants some fame for his videos now. If this story were true, many, many people would have heard about it over the years.

  12. Tom, you are a liar. You were in the room with Gary Brandolino when Bob called Ed and chose him off. And it was Tom that dared Bob to do it. They then had a discussion as to how Bob would fight him. Bob said I’ll run him around for about 10 seconds- when he gasses out I’ll nail him. Just like all cults they are coated in lies and distortions.
    Just look at the basics- Ed never trained, dropped dead from a massive heart attack, and was warned by Terry Robinson that he would die.
    Gary Brandolino tells a story of Ed Parker showing up at Tom Bleecker’s wedding. He was on a cane from gout, could barely get around, and looked like death warmed over. Bob will respond soon. He has assured me that Tom Bleecker is lying. It was in 1973 in Tom Bleecker’s living room in his apartment in Westwood, and Gary Brandilino was also there. I have trained under Bob and he is for real. He has also assured me that one can tell that Mills is an idiot. Fighting 4 to 5 guys with knives and clubs and beating them all in 7 seconds- BULLSHIT. This from a man that never trained. This is even far-fetched for Kenpo bullshitters.
    Mills, I wish you younger to give you the beating you deserve.

  13. Hey Tom, this is Robert Libby speaking for himself- YOU ARE A FUCKING LIAR. I was in your apartment with Gary Brandolino You said that there was no way I would choose of Ed. I told you I didn’t know his home phone number. You said I have it and dialed it for me. I insulted Ed right in front of you and Gary and then chose him off for threatening to beat up my beginning students. I told Ed I would fight him anytime- anyplace. I also told Ed that he was a punk, a thief, and a bully. When I arrived home Lelani called me in tears and begged me not to fight Ed as he had a very bad heart and was near death. I promised her I would not do a sickly man any harm and left it there.
    So Tom, are you sickly, senile, or just playing politics like usual? FUCK YOU!!!!! You know what I am saying is the truth
    Also, American Kenpo currently has more 10th. degrees that the Japanese Judo Federation has had in its entire existence. Whose Johnson do you suck to get one? You give them out like popcorn at a movie.
    And as for you Mills- how’s your lawsuit? How’s that bankruptcy? I can see how much credibility you have in the business world- as much as you have in martial arts.

    • And what proof do we have that you say you are who you say you are? Where are your so called credentials other than ranom name drops? All i see is another keybkard warrior teying to buikd himself up by tearing others down. I wouldn’t be surprised to find you are another persona on this thread as well just sticking up for one another.

      • Ask Tom Bleecker. Call PFS of Ridgecrest, Calif. and ask who did most of the teaching from 1999 to 2001. Call No Way Martial Arts in Los Angeles and ask a PFS Full Instuctor named Duane Walden who he used to call Sifu! Ask him who taught the classes in Chico, Calif for 2 years. See if he respects my abilities.
        So now Michael Brooks you goddamn coward I think I have proven what my credentials are.
        Now reveal who you are bitch! But you will never will. You will just crawl back under your rock where you belong!
        So the Parker legacy? Bad schools with incompetent instructors that just keep continuing the bullshit! Ed Parker would not fight me because he was all talk and no action. He was a fake who knew how to take advantage of people. And my track record against Kenpo black belts is 3-0. All backed down and even from a friendly exchange of ideas! Compared to how we trained in the 1960s they wouldn’t be fit to carry our gym bags!

      • Also, I have 12 videos on YouTube. I am not hiding from anybody. You are new here so I will elucidate you. I challenged Kenpo. You do the grab and I will only resist and do no offensive strikes- I will just resist and defeat virtually the techniques as they do not work. And as I use no offense you must stick to the technique- nobody stepped forward.
        WOW! That’s confidence in your system, There are hundreds of Ed Parker Kenpo people who know me, and most probably do not like hearing this, but it is a failed system from a man who was lazy and knew nothing about martial arts. He made up stories to make an image and then marketed the image. He never trained, never competed, and rarely taught. In the 6 years I spent at the Santa Monica school he taught maybe two times. He always talked about doing something but never did!

      • Edward Leffingwell

        I love American Kenpo Karate but i don’t recognize modern styles after 1985. But understand Kenpo being personally changed by its teachers. My own ranking was white brown black. The rainbow colors are definetly different. I only know what i was taught with various MA styles from 75 to present 2019 along side. Ide love and respect any YouTube links to dabble deeper in what is or isn’t truth. I have no input about Parker just know what works. Thanks

  14. Gee,

    Don’t let my age stop you. I’m sure I can last for the two minutes it will take to prove YOU are the fraud!

  15. (Sorry, in my youth it would have been less than that; but age catches up with all of us as you will learn)

    Mills Crenshaw

  16. Jeff Speakman I know and have watched his success in spreading Kenpo throughout the world (an effort which Ed Parker started and would have honored Jeff in recognitions of his efforts); Al Tracy I know and respect for his spreading Kenpo and adding to the wealth of knowledge; Joe Lewis I knew and respected as a consummate warrior; Bruce Lee I met in Ed Parker’s Pasadena Home; Ted Sumner I know and helped write “Deep Cover Cop,” which chronicles his real life use of Kenpo in life and death combat with killers, thugs and convicts; Tom Bleecker I know and respect for all his accomplishments (though he doesn’t know you and calls into question your ability to tell the truth; Chuck Sullivan I know and respect, He was an officer in the IKKA from its beginning; Mike Stone I know and respect ever since we fought in the International in 1964; Bob White I know, a man who everyone of any intelligence respects; but who the hell is Ron Morgan? I’ve never heard of you. And based on your inane posts on this site, I not only don’t have any respect for you I consider you to be childish, churlish, cowardly and beneath contempt. But, then, that’s just one man’s opinion; I’m sure your mother liked you…when you were little. You did have a mother didn;t you?

  17. OK. Let’s say I know nothing. Here is a little assignment- I want you to produce 1 video of Ed Parker EVER doing anything that could be considered as “working out” or “training.” ED NEVER TRAINED!!
    Here is another true story- In about 1969 a Los Angeles TV station called KCOP 13 had a martial arts special. It was hosted by the late Nick Adams. He had a green in Kenpo. Many people were on the 1 hour show- the Urquidez brothers, Ed Parker, and others. So Ed did the “5 count”, or 5 knives. He did it one time and was gasping for air. A second time and he could barely talk, and the 3rd. time he was done. My brother, who was older, asked me id Ed was sick. I said “maybe he has the flu.” No, he was done. So in the prime of life Ed could barely do one technique- PATHETIC!!!!
    So Mills I’ll be looking for that video real soon!!!!
    Now many might say “Why is he saying this stuff?’ Simple- I actually care what happens to people that learn martial arts, and it sickens me to see crap pawned off as gold. There are about 10 Kenpo techniques that can work, but only if changed. The reasons for the changes are that Ed was a very flawed technician and knew little about fighting. This was because he never competed; never got his black belt from KS Chow; and never had a real fight.
    1 simple fix is that one should not block with the front hand, but rather the back.
    A martial artist should never train off of a step through reverse punch as nobody throws that punch.
    All techniques should be done in real time and with various counters thrown to build reflexes.
    Non-contact sparring should never be done as it destroys real fighting skills- there should always be at least light contact.
    Students should learn how to deal with lines of attack and not preset attacks and counters.
    Students should learn a ground game like judo or BJJ.
    Students should learn how deadly serious a knife can be, and not raised on crazy stories of ANYBODY beating 4 to 5 armed attackers- that is the time to run. A 357 magnum may not penetrate a bullet resistant vest, a combat bowie will!!!!
    Now Millls this is Robert Libby that has been writing, not my student. He is repeating stories I have told him. But they are true. I have told him to never speak for me again, and he has done this before.
    If Tom Bleecker says he has no knowledge of me choosing off Ed in his living room he is a liar. He even told people about it who asked me if I chose Ed off. He dialed the phone for me to Ed’s house. And yes, Lelani begged me not to trash Ed due to his bad heart. And yes, Terry Robinson told Ed he would die if he didn’t change his ways- looked at how Ed died. we were surprised at how long he lived.
    I checked you out, and you are a nut case. You are a man released from lawsuit due to filing bankruptcy. But the claimant’s claims were upheld and awarded about $39,000. You live in a whack job state, Utah, and follow a whack job religion, Mormonism. You have all the boxes checked for right-wing crack pot Also, you refer to “fighting” with Mike Stone- non-contact tournament fighting is not fighting- it is high-speed tag. It has no merit for so many reasons.
    Let me elucidate. My students asked me to fight in the Internationals. I really didn’t want to- this was like 1973. I was fighting a Norris black belt named Mike Bissel- he was in “Enter the Dragon”, the golf course scene where John Saxon beats up Darnell Garcia, Pat Johnson, and Mike Bissel. He was dating Kim Burbridge, Bob Burbridge;s sister. So who are the corners? Pat Johnson- head referee- Mike Bissel’s teacher. 3 Norris blacks at the corners, and a Tae Kwan Do black belt for the 4th. corner man. I was killing Bissel and couldn’t get a point. His girlfriend was yelling “you’ve got an animal, come on Mike.” So we went into sudden death- as I was driving Mike out of the ring they gave him a point for a bs weak reverse punch, despite my scoring round kick to the body and back knuckle to the face. My students were floored. I had a few choice words for Pat Johnson as I was exiting the area.
    Steve Sanders once fought Chuck Norris- we had a film of it. we put it into a hand winder that football teams used to analyze plays. You could move it back and forth and see exactly what happened. Steve slaughtered Norris- match Norris.
    I was fighting in the Four Seasons tournament as a green belt. I was headed for the finals. My last match was against a Lima Lama kid named Esquivet. The last shot was him throwing a spinning rear kick- I blocked it perfectly and hit him with a reverse punch- he got the point. It was awarded by his father. I believe his name was Saul Esquivel. Steve Sanders had been coaching me at the tournament and was disgusted, Several black belts were actually holding me down as I was going to knock out Saul Esquivel.
    Tournament karate had no rules for officiating. It is filled with stories of bad calls and biased officiating. So never bore me with tales of bravado from the tournament world. Both Steve Sanders and Joe Lewis have spoken about what crap tournaments are.
    But this is just like you- use a meaningless reference from a crap system with no validity- Mormonism, Kenpo, Ed Parker, tournament karate. Take your pick, they are all BS.
    No Mills I will not come in and pimp slap the white off of your teeth as you are a pathetic wind bag. I am 15 years younger and 80lbs heavier You mean nothing to me. My credentials are solid. The best step I ever took was to abandon Kenpo. I do respect a lot of the Kenpo people, although I feel they are misguided in their opinions of Ed and Kenpo. Don’t threaten people. You can’t back it up and never could.

    • Um, why does someone calling Mormonism a “whack job religion” get a free pass? I find it hard to believe that anyone who has truly internalized the spirit of the martial arts would be such a bigot.

    • How about pics of a black belt class of mr parker kicking above his waist to the head in the 90s . I admit up to green belt it felt choreography. But at brown I saw clearly

  18. Robert or Ron or Mickey Mouse, who knows who or what you are. It doesn’t matter, no one cares, because you prove each time you post you don’t tell the truth and have no facts. The only “lawsuit” or litigation involved a construction company in which I was an officer. The suit dragged on for five years; there was no bankruptcy, and no judgement. We won every single issue and the suit was dismissed with prejudice. It is a matter of record. But then FACTS don’t matter to a slanderer. Yes, Ed Parker grew old. You will too if you are allowed to live. Those of us who knew and trained with Parker in his prime know just how pathetic your attempts to defame him are. I suspect that you wrote all of the previous posts as they contain the same childish drivel. I’m through with you. You have exposed your ugly soul to all who have read the lies you have spued. The entire martial arts world will know you – congratulations- your fame is well earned. You will be known as a vicious, petty, lying slander, who will no longer be welcome among people of integrity.

  19. Wow! Robert Libby-I don’t know you and i don’t know where you live or anything about you. I’m a little shocked by the lack of civility that you display. If you don’t agree with someone it seems you go to great lengths to put down others, including someone who is no longer living. I’m not sure what art you study, but it can’t be any of the martial arts as these all teach the importance of respect and civility. I wouldn’t be too quick about casting Mills aside. I’m confident Mills could hold his own with anybody. And even if Kenpo doesn’t work(which I don’t believe)as you state, why the viciousness and attacks? So you all have a difference of opinion-what’s the big deal. Can’t you be happy just doing your thing while others do theirs? Nobody is infringing on that. I’m also glad that you know how to do a google search! Wow! That’s great! From the information you posted about Mills above, I also did some searching. All I can say is you’ve got to get current. Your citing things and events that are 12 years old. Can we do a little better than that? Interestingly enough, when I tried to find you, you’re nowhere to be found. Which is different than all the people you are attacking in this forum. Let’s do this. Why don’t you post a workout/sparring tournament that you’ve demonstrated some skill in and let others be the judge of how you do? What’s good for the goose is good for the gander. By the way-I find you’re “fixes” to the Kenpo system intriguing-starting with the first suggestion. “To block with the back hand instead of the front hand.” Really? You should see how that would work with someone like Tony Martinez, Sr., Paul Mills, Sam Ellis, or Tony Martinez, Jr. They would be over that front hand so fast you wouldn’t have any chance of surviving. But go ahead and try to block with that back hand. They would make mincemeat out of your frontal features very quickly. Why so nasty anyway?

  20. I’m amazed at the lack of respect shown in this thread by what appears to be one person posting as many. Robert/Bob, etc-I don’t know what art you study, but it couldn’t be the martial arts because the legitimate ones I know about all teach humility, respect, and civility. What’s the big deal anyway? Even if you believe kenpo to be unworthy of study, why can’t folks like Mills do what pleases them and you do likewise? It sounds like you always have to be right. And when something comes along that challenges your point of view, you attack everything about them-the style the study, their religion, their personal life, etc.

    I do have a suggestion. What’s good for the goose is good for the gander. Since your requesting “proof” that some video is produced showing Ed Parker working out, can we ask the same from you? Why don’t you produce a video of what your skills look like so that we can all see them and make a comparison. With all your expertise I’m certainly sure you can do that. You see, while you did a google search on Mills Crenshaw, I did my own research on not only him, but on you. First, some of the things you comment on are 12 years old. Can we get more current than that? Second, while I can find Mills all over the internet, I cannot find anything about you. Strange with all your knowledge, connections, prowess, etc. Third, you say your credentials are “solid.” Can you tell us your real name, where you studied, you line of black belt progression, or anything else about you that we can check up on? You see, it’s the year 2014 and it’s much harder to make things up now than it was in the 60’s.

    Last-I wouldn’t be so quick to cast Mills aside. I’m pretty confident that he could hold his own. I’m intrigued by some of your “fixes” within the Kenpo system, starting with your first suggestion. “..blocking with your back hand, not the front hand..” I’d love for you to try that one on someone like Paul Mills, Huk Plunas, Tony Martinez, Sr.(or Jr.), or Sam Ellis to name a few. These are the folks I know-of course all of them not worthy of any respect from your point of view, where this would meet with dire consequences. That technique done against Tony Martinez, Sr. would meet with brutal consequences. He’s be over that lead hand so fast he’d make mincemeat about your facial features. But you go ahead and be thinking about that back hand block. I’d love to see it.

    I’ll be looking for your video soon. You see, to me it doesn’t really matter. I do what I enjoy doing, and you enjoy(I think)doing what you do. Why can’t it be laid to rest with that? Why so nasty Robert/Bob/Ron/Vito, etc.? It does look like you’re trying to drive traffic to this website in the hopes of selling things? I don’t even mind that. What I do think is in poor taste is the attack on others, particularly one that is no longer living. Maybe we should be worried about you?

  21. Ah ha…now I know this is one person who is spewing all of this and then censoring the comments they don’t like to hear. That’s OK. We’ll get the word out what a hoax your website is. There’s other ways to get the word out other than you nixing all comments you don’t like. What a punk! You dream up these fake conversations and names to stir things up to drive people to your site to sell them something. I’ve had 2 posts that never made it after being “moderated.” What’s the matter? No video to show us of you and how great you are? It’s no wonder why nobody knows who you are because your a nobody. Big talker. And someone who says “pimp slap” isn’t 60. You’re some young punk who wont show up at a dojo when challenged. Solid credentials, huh? Tell us your real name and provide us with highlights of your wonderful martial arts skills to enlighten us. Then let us know who some of your students are. Oh, you don’t have any? You’d last 20 seconds in the ring with anybody decent.

  22. Sorry Snibb I am 62. DOB 2-4-52. Sorry for the “lack of humility” but martial art means “war art.” And I get pissed when people lie about me. But I do agree about the “moderator” part.
    No, Kenpo does not work. Now think- 1 man against 5 men with knives and clubs- Mils’ comment not mine. Does that even sound dimly credible to you? Watch Paul Vunak on “Knife philosophy” on Youtube. Knives are very deadly and leave massive damage. You do not block with the forearm, but rather pass the knife as you zone to stay away from the business end. This type of Hollywood BS does in fact get people killed, and that is my concern.
    I watched a Kenpo 4th. degree spend 20 minutes om how the inward block destroys the radial nerve in the forearm, and that a strong punch needs a strong block- COMPLETE CRAP. Watch a boxer block- they merely swipe jabs and crosses away. Inward blocks do not work in real time.
    Can some Kenpo guys fight” Hell yes- but they never use a Kenpo technique in a real fight. It breaks down into a sort of full-contact karate.
    My aim is simple- I do not want people making life changing decisions based on errant information. And virtually all of Ed’s teaching was crap and flawed. Take the “Kenpo challenge- try to do ANy Kenpo technique in real time- GOOD LUCK!!!!

    • You only show your ignorance. When you are an older more experienced man you will urge your grandkids to train in tkd mma boxing or self defence just to understand the reality of defending themselves.

    • Sorry, as a Kenpo practitioner myself, I really would hate for you to miss the chance to see an art that demonstrates the very core of what makes a martial arts technique effective. Before I studied Kenpo, I was an Uechi Ryu Shodan. But I never understood why the art did not work until I studied Kenpo.

      You and I both know that Ed Parker had nought but a con. His hoax was not true Kenpo – he stole the name as well. My guess is that he was a colored rank in Kempo – a poor one at that. He made up a system, stole the name from Chu’an Fa Chinese Kenpo and went on to fool the world. What he did was an absolute disgrace, and there may never be a way to reverse the damage he has caused. Who cares for the, “but-he’s-not-here-to-prove-himself” line. Anyone in the know can easily spot him as a fake. Let’s just be glad he is not here to continue to disgrace the martial arts.

  23. Mills- the lawsuit is in the Deseret News of Utah- but I did lie. The claimant was awarded 89,000 and may go to 200,000. It says in t ‘Radio talk show host Mills Crenshaw.” So are they lying also? Or is their another talk show host named Mills Crenshaw in Utah? So who is the liar?

  24. No Snibbs- I’m not selling anything- no books, DVDs, or t-shirts. I am just tired of there being so much ignorance in America.

  25. i have been in a few videos, but a long time ago. This is my real name. I ran the Ed Parker Santa Monica school for about 2 years in the 70s. I also did 90% of the teaching at PFS of Ridgecrest for about 2 1/2 years from 2001 to 2003 ( a Paul Vunak affiliate). So if somebody with Vunak’s credibility and his full instructor thinks I’m fir to teach I guess I know what I’m doing. I have trained in Kenpo, judo, Bjj, kick boxing- American and Muay Thai, boxing, weapons, Kali, Silat, escrima, panantukan and pananjakman. Now I just train a few people overseas and work out. I hike, swim and lift weights also.
    So as to credentials- What are Ed’s? Never got a black from Chow, promoted from 1st. to 5th. by his friends, and then 5th. to 10th. by the same friends.
    One of the effects of time is changing history. In the 60s we always knew Ed stole the book, his second one, from Jimmy Woo, But as always Ed had a story about some student hanging himself due to Jimmy’s errant teaching and a mystical form. Ed always had “stories” for his indiscretions
    I have no idea as to who Vito is. Ron Morgan is my student. I think I know who Bill Nadal is. I have no idea who Lumberjack Dave is or Monfongo. I knew of Mills Crenshaw but have never met him. I knew Tom Bleecker from the 60s to the 70s and have not seen him in about 40 years.
    As to respect- I give it to those that deserve it. Ed deserves little if any. He was critical in promoting martial arts, but his skills are non-existent, his feats the tales of fantasy, and his stabbing loyal people in the back legendary. He was a thief, liar, fraud, charlatan, and fool

  26. Dear Snibbs, Now I have an assignment for you also. I can find nothing with Mills Crenshaw on Youtube but his talk show. But I did see a video with ed Parker called Kenpo talk with Ed Parker. He refers to hinself as a “street fighter from Honolulu.” But he has no arrest record. I have one and so does Larry Hartsell. If you fight you can be arrested. But what so impressed me was HOW BAD ED WAS!!!!!!!! OH MY GOD!!!! He does a multiple man attack and his form is horrible- he looks like an idiot. And in it he is leaner and his hair is all black so he is about 35? Really look at this crap. It was so horribly set up and Ed’s basics are horrific. So what are you talking about? LOOK AT THE VIDEO! Every video I see Ed in he is either in slow motion or he looks like a weak blue belt. Anybody can look good in slow motion with the opponent cooperating. But even then he looks uncoordinated, off balance, and weak So this is the “Hawaiian bad ass?” I have never been more convinced as to what a fraud he truly was. I would REALLY like to thank all the Kenpo faithful for getting me o do research and totally realize what a charlatan Ed was.

    • Ok another self masogenst my style is best D. A. Are you a pro football or hockey athlete? No ! Not many of us are. So with your reasoning non of us should do it. Or we should only train with super bull or stanley cup coaches. Is it the athlete or the coach. So for your limp mind I suggest sound principles play a key role . Please understand we all will preceive and apply these differently. In 56 years ive never applied a class room technique. But without thought on several occasions I have when forced used parts and pieces . And I’m sure I looked off balance but that third person perspective didnt mean crap. Only the resoluts matter. Shut up keep training.

  27. To me it doesn’t really matter. I’m a man of no consequence and little in the way of wordly means. Right now I just try to stay healthy and out of hospitals as age and health has caught up with me. I do remember many years ago attending a martial arts clinic where said Mills and Ed Parker were both participating. I suspect it was recorded by someone but is not up on any youtube videos. I was much younger then(35+ years ago?) I was highly impressed with Ed Parkers skill. His speed, quickness, movements, and power were something to watch. Maybe I’m easily entertained. As far as him being a street brawler, who knows? He said he was so I believe it. But even if he wasn’t, it still doesn’t affect me. People make up things all the time and its getting worse today. I find all kinds of things on youtube where Ed is very skilled. I see some things were it’s a demonstration that look a little corny but that’s only because its slowed down to explain some of his interpretations. I find the same thing in many other forms of karate. By way of arrest records, is that something to brag about? You could have an arrest record and not know one stitch of martial arts. Who knows? And, by the way, I find no arrest warrant for either you or Larry Hartsell. I do find it strange that the people you say were in the room and knew about all these instances have never really heard of you and/or or they don’t remember the incident as you state. To me, the tone of this entire attack wasn’t called for. There are many people I don’t care for in this world but I still can have some civility towards them. Maybe not much for some of them, but at least a little.

  28. Actually tom Bleecker admits he new me. The main point is simple- telling people that you can beat 5 knife-wielding attackers is not only stupid, but highly dangerous and irresponsible. I had a student say to me “What would you do if 6 guys with Knives attacked you?” I said “I would die.” He couldn’t believe it. He thought I would win.
    My goal is always to improve my students- lying and making up idiotic tales of grandeur does not do that. And as I have always said making your students think and believe they can do the impossible can get them killed.
    As to my being arrested, it was not to brag, but merely to show that I have had a provable fight. My case was dismissed and the accusing parties went to prison for numerous charges- it was 12-29-1971 in Portland, Oregon. Larry was arrested in Los Angeles, CA in 1968 or 1969- his case was dismissed as he and his 2 friends did not start the fight. I went as a ride to help bail him out. A person cannot be bailed out by a 16 year-old.

  29. I just ran a Deseret News archive search … no such story. That’s a small matter. Your lack of knowledge makes you a danger to anyone who might be tempted to take what you post seriously. First, you misrepresent what others say. It’s an old trick called the “straw man argument.” You restate what other’s write in a ridiculous way; then you tear apart YOUR restatement (attacking the straw man you built) and try to convince the audience that you defeated the original argument. A sophomore debate technique. Here are the facts: I said Ed Parker considered a “serious fight,” to be four or more armed individuals. Armed with bottles, clubs, tire irons, knives etc. YOU extrapolated that to mean FIVE GUYS WITH KNIVES…RIDICULOUS!

    I had a specific instance in mind. You were making up hot air to make yourself look good. When Ed Parker was at BYU (1954 -1955) he was driving to Salt Lake from Prove with his wife Leilani. A car load of drunken
    sailors forced him off the road. They jumped out of their car and came at Ed with a variety of weapons (Bottles, tire iron, club – I don’t remember for certain if there was a knife I think so but Ed isn’t around to clarify). That fight lasted seven seconds. Ed took them as they came at him. He was worried that he had killed the first attacker who, after he had been struck fell backward and hit his head on the blacktop.

    But the thing that stood out in your self serving diatribe was this statement: ” You do not block with the forearm, but rather pass the knife as you zone to stay away from the business end. This type of Hollywood BS does in fact get people killed,”

    You clearly don’t understand kinfe theory AT ALL. Rule one: When facing a knife assume you’ve already been cut. Rule two: THE ELBOW CONTROLS THE BLADE. Rule three: DON’T BLOCK or GRAB – PARRY the weapon arm and CLOSE with the attacker to CONTROL HIS ELBOW! (For those of you who are serious about the subject, have a friend thrust with a rolled up newspaper as though it were a blade. Step forward outside the thrust in a neutral bow; your leading hand touches the attacker’s ELBOW, your trailing hand makes a circular parry at the hand or wrist to prevent the blade from cutting you. With a tiny bit of practice you will discover that one you touch the attacker’s elbow you are in control of the blade. By closing with the attacker and controlling his elbow you prevent him from slashing at you. If you “ZONE to stay away from the business end,” as one genius recommends you give the attacker multiple chances to cut you; and cut you he will.

    A little knowledge is a very dangerous thing.

    • Sorry, but the story of Ed and the five sailors is BS. Come on…he’s driving along and for some unknown reason, five sailors (US Navy?) force him off the row (car smashing?) and “come at him” armed with weapons…and Ed beats them all in seven seconds. I think you are confusing a 1970s kung fu movie with reality – or Ed was when telling this story. Needless to say, I can’t find any documentation this alleged fight ever happened.

    • Ed Parker tells the Utah fight story in his own words. A Karate Illustrated magazine interview, Sept. 1976. pg. 16 Somewhat edited for the sake of space. (but not by much)
      Magazine (KI): Since you’ve been in the martial arts, have you been involved in any fights?
      EP: Yes, nine times in my life. Never has my training failed me, and the longest any fight has lasted was nine seconds at the most. My most memorable one was when I was going to college in Utah. My wife, who was pregnant with my first child, was along that night. …Anyway, these four guys just pulled us off to the side of the road and started to get out of their car. They were going to work me over. I dropped two guys within six or seven seconds. I was more frightened that night than in any time of my life. When I hit the first guy, he hit the ground and his head sounded just like a watermelon when it landed. I thought I had taken his life and that’s why I was so scared. It really shook me up, because that guy didn’t move for five minutes.
      …On that particular night I discovered what mind over matter was. Everything that was happening, was happening in slow motion. It was like I was watching myself while I was fighting. I mean, while the guy was still punching I was thinking I should crack his ribs, No, that wouldn’t have an effect because if his ribs would break, then…uh, oh, there’s his buddy running in. This is what’s coming to my mind during the action, I’m not kidding.
      …I thought how he’s got a white T shirt on. If I hit him right across the nose and splatter blood all over his shirt, psychologically it will disturb this guy, and worked just like that. His partner came at me and just as he was about to shoot a left, he hesitated when he saw his buddy’s blood gushing. So I blocked his shot and hit him right in the back of the neck. It was funny because he had a cigarette in his mouth and the snap from the hit was so hard it made the cigarette fly. The other guys jumped in the back of the car and locked themselves in. Later, the guy who was lying unconscious started to twitch and his legs moved. Man was I happy.

      Then the next month’s issue featured Bill Ryusaki, a Hawaiian Kenpo stylist, and student of Ed Parker.
      On page 25 of the October 1976 issue of Karate Illustrated magazine, an interview with Ryusaki describes his first meeting with Ed Parker. He says “I actually saw him really take care of himself. He was literally piling these guys up…” So much for the claim that Ed Parker never fought.
      As to Ed Parker, not a Black Belt under Chow…
      In his book Infinite Insights, Vol 1,(1982) Ed Parker describes his training phase in Utah 1950’s,(pg.25-27), drafted for the Korean War, joins the Coast Guard for Hawaii (1951-54), and completes his training with William Chow, during his Coast Guard days, then returns to BYU, in late 1954. Indeed, the photo on top of pg. 26, captioned, “Ed Parker as a Black Belt with William Chow”.
      Ed Parker gives Chow the utmost respect. “I treasured the time I spent with him and the revelations I obtained from our conversations and workouts. As I look back, I cannot thank him enough for setting me on a path of logical and realistic thinking.” (pg. 24, Vol. 1)
      Ed Parker tried to convince Chow to move to the mainland, but as told on page 28, in 1959, Chow rejected the idea of moving to California, and gave Parker his ‘blessing’ to carry on without him.
      Why would Chow give Parker his blessing if Parker was still a brown belt? I think not. In fact, Ed Parker went to college precisely to bolster his own credentials with the public to gain trust and credibility as a teacher. Why would he not seek a basic instructor level credential as a Black Belt in the very field he was good at?

      Salute

  30. Since I seem to have a hard time getting anything approved on this site, I’ll keep things a little more generic. Robert-I’m with Snibb on this one. I’d like to see you in action with some techniques that show how you might do things. Any tournament clips? Self-defense techniques? How about a studio name that we can all see to verify what you’re saying? If you’ve got something better than Kenpo, why not all of us see it? I’d be interested in that.

    I’m not sure what an arrest record attests to. All that tells me is that you’ve had problems with the law-a bad thing. I know a few guys who have arrest records and they don’t know the first thing about martial arts. They might not even know how to fight. Having an arrest record doesn’t tell me anything about how good you are at whatever style you study or even if you know any martial art.

    All I can add is this: I do know Mills-I’ve trained with him locally, are recently. I think it would be a huge mistake to think that he couldn’t defend himself, or that the techniques he knows and teaches wouldn’t be fight-worthy on the street. He can generate an awful lot of speed, momentum, and power. I wouldn’t want to be on the opposite end of anything he throws. The same can be said for my instructor Tony Martinez, Sr. I think Tony is now 74. If Kenpo doesn’t work you should have seen what Tony did last night to a very talented hapkido martial artist who is 20+ years his younger.

  31. Hi guys, I have this site on automatic, don’t diapprove anything unless it is spam. You might hit some kind of wordpress filter (jetpack? Akismet?) but other than that, whatever you print gets put up. I hate censoring. Oh, and you might check your own computer or browser or whatever. That might slow down the comments. Al

  32. Mills= this is getting tiring, but I will post a video soon. As to the Deseret news, when you put “Mills Crenshaw” on Google you get three choices- Talk show, Kenpo, and lawsuit. You click on lawsuit and the Deseret article comes right up. It is about a pension fund and blatantly says that you were dismissed from the suit as you filed bankruptcy
    A golden rule of propaganda, lying, is make it a big lie. This is the basis of all religions. Brigham Young said that there are people living on the moon, they are of uniform size, dress like Quakers, and have been seen with telescopes.. He also stated that people live on the sun. He also stated that he has never been wrong not given false council- no ego there.
    The point here is make up a big lie and people believe it more readily. You refer to people that “trained” with Ed- he never trained. When I was at the Santa Monica school he always would set up classes, and then cancel them. He once said he was going to have a Saturday black belt class taught by him to standardize all the techniques and forms- that lasted about 1 day as he cancelled it the next day. Benny Urquidez, whose credentials are impeccable, was teaching at Santa Monica on Friday nights. He finally left as Ed kept cancelling training appointments. He promised Benny that he would teach him the entire Kenpo system. Benny’s comment- “He never showed me a damn thing.” Ed was notorious for being lazy, cancelling appointments, and making false promises.
    So here we have Benny leaving due to Ed’s lack of commitment, and Larry Hartsell, also a man of incredible talent, that called Ed a “Kenpo clown.”
    But as I previously stated, look at the videos- he is HORRIBLE. And the entire “Honolulu street fighter” myth was started by Ed.
    When I produce a video clip I will show how Ed knew nothing about fighting, basic principles of body mechanics, and how to make some of the techniques work. Funny how the Senior Grand Master knew so little. I will also show how many Kenpo techniques put you in a worse position than you started in by showing timing errors, bad mechanics, and just plain stupidity.. Yes, Kenpo works great if the opponent stands there and lets you beat him up. But in real life people do not do that.
    I guess that’s why he never received a black belt, was promoted to 5th. degree by his cronies, and then to 10th. by his pals.

    • I could not resist my 10 cents worth! First up – Kenpo in tournament fighting is indistinguishable from other Karate systems and from that standpoint it is as though it operates in two parallel universes. I have yet to see any true Kenpo techniques used in a tournament. Frank Trejo was one of Ed Parkers top students and accomplished fighters. Watch the video of him and tell me where the Kenpo techniques are that are not mirrored in other Karate systems such as Wado-Ryu? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uZQP7_pbSM0
      Secondly – Irrespective of Karate style all the basic blocks would not work in a real fight assuming the adversary is attempting to strike you. The low block called gedan barai advocated as a block against a low strike or kick is a good way to get your arm broken if used against a kick, and I know of guys having done just that! Over the last 3-4 decades improvements have emerged in some systems such as Shidokan introducing new and improved techniques such as Muay Thai style leg kicks, western boxing style type punching, and throws.
      Thirdly – I believe that Ed Parker came along on the Karate scene when more was considered better. We as Americans like to think we are getting perceived value for money and whether it the amount of food we are served in a restaurant or the size of our vehicles the bigger the better. Without a doubt Ed Parker was very good at marketing his system and he tapped into this with hundreds of self- defense techniques and extension, sets and forms. While he stated that he set about to demystify these ancient arts by removing unnecessary moves he also played right into them! Watch https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e3Ba-S8_hcA
      This video reminds me of a cult following and notice the flashy posturing he performs at the end – Playing right into the mystical side. That is the showman side on display!
      Lastly – Ed Parker boasted about his street fighting prowess in his Hawaiian days. While I have nothing to substantiate anything to the contrary I still doubt this was true. I knew of a couple of guys who I would have termed as street fighters in my late teens. They had treble fish hooks under their lapels (lone kimono not necessary) as well as razor blades in their caps. They also carried large stiletto switch blades and were opportunist fighters using the element of surprise to attack. Not guys to be messed with.

  33. I hold Robert Libby beneath contempt, not for anything he has done, for I don’t know the man; but for the slander he has perpetrated against a GOOD and HONORABLE man, who was my instructor, my friend and my brother— Ed Parker.
    In pursuit of the truth, I researched Libby’s claim that there was a story linking me to a lawsuit in the Deseret News. I had never seen the story so when the slanderous claim was made I denied its existence. I was wrong. There was such a story. However, like everything else that Libby spouts that brief, thirteen year old story was false, misleading and inaccurate. I Know Curtis DeYoung, casually; but I have NEVER AT ANY TIME been part of, or associated with his company, American Pension Services, I have never been part of, associated with or taken so much as a penny from Orion Communications, Inc. the company named in the alleged lawsuit. That part of the thirteen year old “story” was totally in error. Nevertheless, Mr. Libby was correct, only to the extent that there was such an article.

    People like Mr. Libby identify themselves for all to see each time they open their mouths or write for public consumption. Strong’s Open Concordance says it best:
    STRONG’S CONCORDANCE:
    diabolos: slanderous, accusing falsely
    Original Word: ????????, ??
    Part of Speech: Adjective
    Transliteration: diabolos
    Phonetic Spelling: (dee-ab’-ol-os)
    Short Definition: slanderous, the Slanderer, the Devil

    His attack on me is fine, I’m still here to defend myself and set the record straight; but his attack on Ed Parker is cowardly, slimy, churlish and beneath contempt. He then magnifies his calumny by slandering “all religion.” In his ignorance he quotes fully discredited “anti-church” authors who made up straw man stories and then tore those stories down in an attempt to defame men of faith.
    So be it; Libby raised the specter of religion, that will be the test:

    • Matthew 7:20
    20: Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.

    The fruits of Ed Parker’s Genius have spread throughout the world. Hundreds of thousands of high ranking Black Belts owe their skills to instructors, teaching on many of the continents of the globe, who got their training either from Ed Parker or one of his first or second generation instructors. Some have branched out into schools and systems of their own; but most, with the exception of the egocentric, pay respectful tribute, to the man who paved the way.

    WHAT GLORIOUS WONDERS HAVE YOU PRODUCED MR LIBBY?
    Ed Parker didn’t have to brag about his achievements; they exist in the real world. Others sing his praises. But from YOU, MR LIBBY, all I hear is a chorus of off key slander.

    SHOW US YOUR FRUITS so we may judge your worth.

  34. Mills, you are such a bore and journalistic hack. You think because you spew a little Shakespeare you are an intellectual giant. But as you, I believe were on his board to promote him from 1st. to 5th., and then 5th. to 10th., you have things to gain from deception and lose from the truth.
    It is so simple- you said The Deseret News had no such story- I can get it it 1 second. The other thing anybody can get is how bad Ed really was on Youtube. Go to Youtube and watch “Ed PArked Late LAte Show”, “Ed Parker, Mills Crenshaw, Jeff Speakman”, and Ed Parker Kenpo concepts in motion. He looks slow, uncoordinated, and foolish. Watch the 10 man wipe out and look at his kicking, and how some shill falls over from a kick a yellow belt would be ashamed of. Also watch Ed Parker Huk Planas and look at how ridiculous they look.
    The techniques I will be critiquing will be 5 swords (the 5 count), twin kimono, triggered salute, the “back breaker”, and one other for a rear shoulder grab. I will effectively show why the training method is so flawed, why these show that Ed knew nothing, and how to make some of them work. The holes in Kenpo are not pin holes, but rather chasms of stupidity and fraud- just like Ed’s supposed skills and street fights..

  35. One last thought- this link started about 3 years ago. It had like 80,000 hits. Now it has over 445,000. Frauds like Ed should be exposed. Students should learn valid concepts from good teachers. But unfortunately most karate and kung fu styles are crap that don’t work

  36. Now it’s been almost 4 months since you started to slam Ed Parker and also tell us you would put up a video. I haven’t seen one yet. When can we be enlightened? I’m looking to better my techniques and if the style you teach has some kind of advantage, I’d love to see it.

  37. I have a life outside of the Internet. I am currently very busy with my 18 year-old getting ready to go to university.
    As to slamming Ed Parker take a number. I am hardly alone in this. To give you a quick idea as to how to better your skills do not block like they do in Kenpo. If you are in a matched use the back hand to block the attackers front hand and the front hand to block the back hand- the opposite of Kenpo and most Karate systems. Never train off of a step through reverse punch. Always throw counters when the techniques are done, and never use a Kenpo knife defense technique.
    I have part of the video done, but not all of it. I want to really show how little Ed Parker knew, and be very precise as to why the techniques cannot be used in real time. I want to also show how techniques like twin kimono put you in jeopardy due to how stupid they are (it leaves you wide open for a head butt to the face).
    T o answer Mills, the “drunken sailor” story has so far happened in 4 states. There is also the time he and Chuck Norris took on 5 guys in the San Fernando Valley (a part of Los Angeles) and Ed took out 4 while Chuck struggled to take out 1- also bullshit.

  38. Also I believe I mentioned the video about 2 months ago. But as I stated my daughter going to university is a very big deal for us- she comes first in my time schedule.
    Also Mills- another HUGE fraud is the Bible. I only use it for sarcasm. And I am sure I know it better that you, therefore, I know what a sick document it is, so spare me the quotes.

  39. More straw man arguments based on fictitious stories, from a man who never met Ed Parker. The incident with the sailors happened on the highway between Provo and Salt lake City. I know both Chuck and Ed Parker and I have never heard that account from either man. Your understanding of what Parker taught is as fictitious as your straw man stories. Some of the techniques, taught in his name, have strayed from what he taught. But your description is laughable. Nearly as laughable as your childish attempts to attack the Scriptures. I no longer read your infantile Blog; but only respond to the email notifications. I suggest the handfull of readers who remain do the same

  40. Mills, desperate liars always say stupid things- I was the manager and instructor at the Santa Monica school for about 2 years. Hundreds of people know this. I was there when George Waite was there- then Larry Tatum took over when I left. You are a fool.

  41. I studied from one of James Wing Woo’s students in Berkeley, CA and at 14 my dad sent me to Hollywood to study from James Wing Woo. My short time with him influenced my life, he is a great teacher! His workouts were on stone floors waxed to a slippery finish then he added dancers wax or something like that. We wore rope sole shoes and did high spin kicks and a lot of horse stances, you had to have excellent balance and your legs turned to steel. I am over 50 and still squat in the mid 400-500 lb range….I attribute this to my horse stance training in his system. I went to Hollywood again recently but could not find his studio.

  42. Jimmy is a great guy. I remember how slick the floors were. I hear he is like 80 and still teaching. Ark Wong taught into his 80s also. I’m glad you liked it so much.

  43. Hey mr. Libby, I read only arguments with no sense from you and I agree it would be good some video clip from you.

    Have a nice day

  44. I think you need to talk to Olohe Solomon Kaihewalu.
    I believe the Parker’s path is through the family of
    William Kwai Sun Chow who happened to be married into the
    family. He was by marraige introduced to Kapu Kuia Lua .
    Now known as Lua.

    I believe Lua was not taught to Houlies before this time.
    It was also forbidden to teach anyone not of Hawaiian
    descent the art of the King. Kamameha to be precise.

    So, it is not as if Parker had no experience. He had been introduced
    to Lua, Kempo Kosho,Sil Lum Pai, and Danzan Ryu by the schools which
    happened to be at the same location in the Province.

    From these schools come the Kajukenbo, Danzan Ryu Jiu Jitsu, Lua, Lima Lama and schools
    from Chinese Gung Fu such as Sil Lum Pai. Represented by contemporaries of Shihan Edward “Bobby” Lowe, Bill Ryusaki, Tino Tuiolosega, and Olohe Solomon Kaihewalu.

    Being that Parker was a Polynesian Bradda, not only in the arts but as a descendant of Hawaii himself. A young lad in Hawaii as a Hawaiian it would be remiss to believe he was not exposed to these things, these schools prior to opening his first Dojo.

    If you look and piece together the movements alone. You will see all the influences you
    would have in the Hawaiian Islands at the time. You would see the structure of Okinawa Kempo,
    The influence of Jiu Jitsu from Parker’s Judo days. The influence of Kali from Emperado, the Bone Breaking of Kaihewalu Lua and Polynesian Lima Lama among others from this place and time.

    These are the influences, these men the “Old School” Family Members not in name but by blood that were their Families arts. Pieced together by Parker to become “American” Kenpo. Identifying them as Chinese, if and maybe only to call attention to the roots and it’s ancient attachments.

    My only words of dismay were the fact that Parker did not give enough credit to his own Hawaiian forms of the arts of Kapu Lua and Flowering Hands of Wisdom of Tino Tuilosega and Solomon Kaihewalu. Who for him to identify the arts before his death would have been forbidden.

    The reason for so many followers of the arts are “Do they work?” I think the times the older arts were used by many in places like Tarawa, and Sai Pan by many of the original teachers of the original systems used to defend this country.

    So why would anyone try to defame the man who actually brought the original mass influence of Asian arts to the American Mainland, including introduction of Jun Fan (Bruce Lee) to the world. When in reality, they should be thanking him.

    It is also a demeaning of those who shared their works not only with him but with others prior to him even coming to the mainland. So, I don’t believe in speaking ill of others. The reality is to take it and if it is good use it. If not, discard it.

    • That was well said and I can understand as I studied Oh Do Kwan in it’s most purist form before General Choi added the sine wave. He can from a Chung Do Kwan school; the first one I believe and created the Chong Hon Tuls based of Karate, Taekyon, and the Chung Do Kwan he’d learned from his instructors. With Kenpo there is a lot of infighting just like Taekwondo and at best it is rather strange that they are still fighting as someone wishes to lay claim to who did what, when, where, and how. For m, I never bought into the whole ITF hype and I practices some Kenpo from a student of Skip Hancock in Alaska, Kenpo 2000, I believe it is,……yes I am looking at a book even as I type. I applied some of the techniques to my Oh Do Kwan and it works just fine. Again I find it very interesting that they are still fighting over all of this.

  45. Well stated ERIC,

    It’s a pleasure to read a common sense statement from someone who knows history. Salute, Sr.

  46. What a swell history lesson- but proves nothing about fighting. Yes, Rd Introduced Bruce and was instrumental in starting his career. But what dies that have to do with real fighting? I agree Ed got very popular, and loathed at the same time. I worked for him for 2 years. He had so many bad traits- lazy, inconsiderate, egotistical, thief, and liar. So why should I respect him?
    Who do I respect in martial ars? Paul Vunak, Tom Cruse, Dan Inosanto, Benny Urquidez, all MMA fighters, the Gracies, Hayward Nishioka, Gene LeBell, Bruce Lee, etc… These were fighters and innovators. The proof is all over Youtube. Look at videos of Ed in his prime and examine how bad he was- pathetic is a better word. Anybody who is that uncoordinated, lacking in power, form and focus, and gases out in under a minute is not a martial artist. Kenpo people can brag about Parker all they want- the proof is in the videos.

  47. It is very easy to attack a dead man.

    It is much more difficult to explain History to those who refuse to listen.

    I am not a “Parker acolyte” I do know the History by talking to the people who were there.
    I read, then investigate and ask the people who were there. Like Chow’s family.

    It is easier to deride someone you don’t know, especially when he is dead. It is much more difficult to prove those things.

    I didn’t know Parker himself, I have seen his work.
    His ideals are in use today and yes even in MMA.
    Don’t mistake laziness for a low kick, or trap.

    Remember MMA as an ideal started with the people in Palama.
    Karate, Judo, Kempo, Boxing = KAJUKENBO 1925 – 1981.
    It was also influenced by Sil Lum Pai of China, and Harimau of the Filipinos.
    And Lua from Hawaii. Where balance meant everything.

    I find it interesting you name Labelle, Nishioka a student of Nobuo Nishamori a friend of mine.
    Benny Urquidez a student of Bill Ryusaki. As “real warriors” when it is Chinese Kenpo that Ryusaki gave to Urquidez.

    Yet you leave out men like Tino Tuilosega who fought in WWII using Lima Lama, real battle not for
    Glory and Fame, but Life and Death, with knives, guns, clubs in the sands of Tarawa against trained foe. For him and his country.

    “You see it is not who is right, but who is left.”

  48. You are still dancing around the issue. If you test the reflexes of a person you would be amazed at how close they are in a basic test. I once saw them check the reflexes for Jeremy Clarkson of Top Gear against Michael Schumacher- very close. The point to this is analysis, not a history lesson. But to straighten out one fact I chose Ed off when he was alive- he would not fight me, so so much for the “when they are dead BS.”
    The basic techniques used by the EPAK crew are physically impossible to do in real time. When somebody is standing there like a pole it is easy to look great. For example, when people do the “back breaker” the “dummy” lays on your knee and folds his arms over his chest while you pound on him- gee, that will happen in a real fight!!! When they do “Clutching Feathers” they gingerly lay there hand on the dummy’s head to simulate a hair grab- that is not how a hair grab is done in a fight. And when you step back to “trap” the hand on the head that is the dumbest thing you could do- you will get punched in the face.
    I know Tino and have moved with him. His strength was his boxing, guile and size- too bad the smoking killed him.
    And Kenpo is used in MMA? Are you nuts? One guy sent me all these video clips saying it was Kenpo they were using- pure BS. Chuck Liddel comes from a Kenpo system- when has he ever used it in MMA?
    Also, not only did I know Ed, I worked for him for 2 years after training at his school for 6 years. I new Bill Ryusaki (famous for the first personal injury lawsuit as his student used what Bill taught him and hurt a kid at his high school). And when did Benny ever use a Kenpo technique in the ring, or in a fight? He used boxing with kicking.
    Put Bobby Lowe into Google and look at videos of a man with the last name Greco doing full contact- he was quite good, but it was boxing with kicking. No one has ever seen a Kenpo technique used in real time as it cannot be done. So I know and have moved with virtually everybody in your history lesson. I guess that is first hand experience as opposed to from a book. I did a demo with Ed, Tino, and some big friend of Tino’s that had a glass eye- this was for the Screen Actor’s Guild in like 1967. So when did you move with any of these people? And I was respected enough as a 15 year old kid to be asked to do a demo for important people. Granted I was just a punching bag for Tino, but Ed said “I know you can take a shot.” And Tino really smacked me a couple of times. So once again, who of these people have you actually trained with or done anything with?
    And as to lazy- Ed truly set the mark. Always cancelling appointments, never training, always late with belt certificates, never training, etc…
    Ask Nishamori about Bill Asimow- he trained me when I was a kid. He was my father’s CPA and got me started. He was I believe a 7th degree in judo, but lymphatic cancer ate him up at a fairly early age (I think he was like 60), a real tragedy.
    So all the people you name I know and have worked with, I chose Ed off when he was alive and he refused, and he went off on me over the lies a green belt and threatened to, as he stated it, “beat up Bob’s beginning students.” What a tough guy!!! And these are all facts. He never told the owner of the health club that he would beat me up, but rather “beginning students.
    And Tom Bleecker, who said he had no knowledge of me choosing Ed off asked me how I was going to fight Ed. So you believe who you want. As to the video It is in process. I reviewed it and felt a lot of the angles were a little tricky to see and there were close ups that were too close and longer shits that were too long. But I will show the fallacies of Kenpo and Ed’s complete lack of knowledge.
    What I equate this to is the “Wizard of Oz.” Everybody is so afraid to look behind the curtain. And like all cult leaders there is money to made or lost. Many people that praise Ed use his system and rake in the cash. Or they refuse to really analyze what he taught.
    Also two more facts- NOBODY denies that Ed was promoted to 5th. and 10th. by his students. So would somebody of such a shoddy and despicable charade perhaps be involved in other questionable practices? And Ed dropped dead of a massive heart attack in the Honolulu airport at 59 years of age- fairly young by today’s standards. So please tell me where I am wrong?

  49. Can’t Nishimori is dead.
    Like Bobby Lowe is also dead. Of which you would or should have known.

    But it might serve one better to seek to unify peace than to foment strife, is that not why one spends all the time training?
    For me, if I held animosity I would have to say I have missed the target of what all the training was really for.

    I don’t care really where when or how. The reality is I have seen and used many of the techniques in real life like fist of jade, spear of jade, leap of death. They have worked, not in the ring where everyone is bound by those rules. But in the street.

    But reality is Kyokushin was founded on 18 hands Lohan Kenpo, that was Oyama’s original form. Many of the techniques are similar. History is important because if you know from where you come, you are less likely to get lost along the path you travel.

    “The reason we train in the martial arts is to build a strong spirit. Karate means “Empty hands” but that is not one word. Empty means your mind. No anger, No hate,No Ego” Hand is Peace, with No Fist.”

    -Soke Takayoshi Nagamine

    Saying this You seem to be angry?

  50. No it doesn’t. And I am doing like 5 techniques with the ways to make them work as Ed didn’t know that much..

  51. I figured they were dead. But you never know. Jimmy W. Woo is still teaching and he is like 90.
    Another reason we train is to learn reality and to analyze. We also need to speak out when we see blatant stupidity that can get people hurt. We also need to improve concepts and techniques to make them more realistic. We also need to expose fraudulent ideas and practitioners. I feel that almost any martial art is great as a form of exercise and for health. But when I see ideas that are so ridiculous that they get people hurt I will speak out. And just as I speak out against religious cults as they are dangerous I will speak out against false martial arts concepts. And the whole idea of “they don’t use it MMA because because it is too deadly” is a crock of crap. And please. no more history lessons. I know all about Oyama and Lowe. Instead why don’t you do an analysis of why this works. The reason is it doesn’t work. 90% of all martial arts do not work. The grappling arts are the most effective and always have been.
    On closing go to “Joe Rogan with Bas Ruten” on fake martial arts. A really great analysis on the supposed efficacy of most karate and kung fu systems.

  52. Actually Tino fought in the Korean war at the Battle of Inchon. And I was wrong as I thought he died. What happened was he had a heart attack as he was a smoker. I do know that Arnold Urquidez had a lot of respect for Tino.

  53. The reality is all Parker did was string techniques together. Prime example is “thundering hammers”
    It is what is called a “Hammer fist” Used regularly in MMA events. I think anyone who has been in a Kara Te class has thrown a side kick, wheel kick, chicken kick, round kick, punch thus it is called Kenpo Fist Law.

    “Crossed Swords” rear naked choke

    “A complicated move is just a string of simpler moves stuck together.” -Parker

  54. I study under someone who is part of the Parker lineage. For fear of being admonished, I’ll stay quiet on who exactly I’m under. If it helps, my instructor is friends with Frank Trejo and Mr. Trejo visited our location several years ago. Enough said.

    I’m not a linguistics expert, but I’m quite well versed in writing, and as a Kenpo practitioner, observation. I’ve read through the rantings of Ron Morgan, Robert Libby, vito and survy. In my opinion, these people are all the same author posting under different aliases. All the posts tend to misspell similar words and follow consistent grammatical formatting. The tone of the writing is almost identical. The judicious use of CAPITAL LETTERS is consistent throughout these posts. Exclamation points are very similar too. Whenever one of these posters is super jacked up, I usually see 6 exclamations points. Normally jacked up gets 4 exclamation points. Sort of jacked is 1 or 2. Almost every time.

    The smoking gun, however, is the simple hyphen, or dash.

    You see Ron Morgan/Robert Libby/Vito/Survy – you consistently use the same hyphen/dash format in your posts. It always follows this pattern: “word”- “next word”. So for everyone reading, have a look. Word – Dash – Space – Next Word. Ron/Robert/Vito/Survy is, in my opinion, one in the same person.

    As for Mills, we’ve not met, but I believe you are authentic. My instructor is in his 60’s and gives up probably 60 or 70 lbs to me. I am in my early 40’s, and just about ready to test for 3rd brown. He’d clean my clock. 🙂

    Writing is a window into one’s soul. 🙂

    • There are two hyphens used. You should maybe read them again. And almost no exclamation points- what are you talking about?And boxers and MMA people all use the blocking method I described.
      Snibbs, you obviously know damn little.
      Also, where are the denials and defenses to Ed’s mystical belt promotions? Have to figure anybody that will do that is obviously a fraud, or take part in it.
      The anger comes from all the fraud in so many areas that are so prevalent in America.

  55. Bigot? Joseph Smith taught that black people were descended from demons and cursed by God. They were never allowed in until in the 1980s when black incomes rose in America. Joseph Smith was convicted of “dozing schemes” (a felony). He was so hated that they finally dragged him out of his cell and assassinated him.
    Read their beliefs before you call me a bigot. Mormonism is a whack job relation created by a thief, bigot and mad man.

  56. You’re right. I know nothing. And I don’t need to be right because it doesn’t matter to me as I have no skin in the game. I’m waiting for the further light and knowledge that you promised to send.

    I was going to ask you if you have more than 1 or 2 good friends? Make that any friends. I’d be surprised if you had even one. And if you do is he as miserable as you are?

    Like a previous poster asked:

    Where’s the video clowny?

    Lots of talk but a no-show from what appears to be a big-talker. Lets see some video. Simple as that.

  57. Gee Snibbs, how easily you get rattled. For one who doesn’t care you sure seem concerned. To make a good video takes about 3 hours per technique, so 15 to 16 hours. I do not so things in a half assed fashion. Their is the Kenpo technique, why it is wrong, explaining realistic fighting concepts, and then the improved version. To do an 18 minute American sitcom takes 1 week for 18 minutes – do the math.
    So let’s throw it back at you- where is one decent Ed Parker video? Nobody can produce one of those. I can lead you to many bad ones.
    In America, where I no longer live 1/5 adults is illiterate, 20% of high school seniors are illiterate, 37% cannot find America on a map. Why? People like you- the wafflers who have no commitment to anything. You flip-flop like a pancake. FUCK YOU.
    And I am quite happy with plenty of friends.

    • Wow.
      A criminal record
      Uncontrolled temper
      Uncontrolled language
      Bitter, angry old man

      Yeah, you sound like you must be a real winner with lots of friends. I only wish I could have seen Ed in his prime and you in yours. I feel confident that you’d be on the mat in less than 30 seconds. Big talker. Attacking a deceased individual and then anybody else who happens to come in your way. Big, bravo, and macho.

      You’ve been promising all of us your knowledge filled videos. Fifteen to 16 hours to film 3 techniques? I guess you’re not as bright as you think you are. You can do it in about 2 minutes and everyone knows that. There’s these things called iPads-I’ll tell you a little bit about them sometime.

      Oh, that’s right. You don’t have one because you can’t buy one because you’re unemployable.

      Enough of the bragging. Let’s see the proof tough guy. We’re all sitting on pins and needles in anticipation of that knowledge you promised to send.

      Why did you leave the U.S.? No friends? I didn’t think so.

      And don’t bother with the different aliases that you go by-Ron, Liddy, survy, etc. You were busted by an earlier poster.

      Now go and spew some more of that anger that’s visible for everyone to see.

      There you go, I knew you wouldn’t let us down. Now go have some dinner by yourself because you have no friends, family, or life.

  58. Truth is what it is. If I hold the truth and present it to you and you do not accept it, I do not get angry. I just move on.

    If the truth is presented and your base, (much like in the arts) is weak you are easily uprooted and become frustrated, and angry. You are not very well rooted in either your beliefs nor in your argument.

    Reality is Benny Urquidez is and was a practitioner of Hawaiian Chinese Kenpo under Bill Ryusaki. Chuck Liddel who was trained in the Hawaiian System under Hackelman and Jiu Jitsu with John Lewis and others.

    To say they never used Kenpo Techniques in MMA is funny, since MMA came originally from Kajukenbo. Kajukenbo was derived from Hawaiian Chinese Kenpo, I think they even say “We were the first Mixed Martial Art.”

    Chinese Kenpo is a combination of Lua, Malama, Kempo Okinawa, Jiu Jitsu. So they do not use one technique. They use many techniques from the system. I.E.

    Kajukenbo’s main man was Emperado (Kali) who was a training partner of Bill Ryusaki,Ralph Castro who all trained under William Chow. Chow taught Parker. Chow combined Okazaki Sensei’s Dan Zan Ryu with Mitose’s Kenpo.
    Chow was introduced to Lima Lama, Lua by Samoan Tino Tuiolosega and Hawaiian Solomon Kaihewalu.
    These became the foundation of AMERICAN HAWAIIAN CHINESE KENPO.

  59. Keep it going……..fun……personally I have no pony in this. I met Mr Parker once at a seminar. He seemed impressive to me and I was glad I wasnt a dummie of his because he beat the hell out of those guys lol. I studied Tracy’s for a couple of years with Mr. Mitchell first who I can attest to being able to handle his self and several others in that class that could. Mr. Mitchell then wen to study with Parker.
    IMHO Kenpo techniques teach quick reaction to in the face situations. When fighting with a referee starting across the ring it would be hard to pull off but that’s not what they were designed to do just teach quick responses in close.
    Most systems if practiced live with adjustments can be devastating. I many years ago did a non contact style of TKD which often gets shit for good reason. However several of us who had studied Judo, adapted sparring to full contact with throws, and Ne Waza. I also got to the point of breaking concrete with a knuckle punch from about 8″ to replicate a quick strike that could disable anyone. After about two years we couldn’t find anyone to play with except some Kykoshin fighters, a style which I love btw.
    I was talking with Rorian Gracie in 89 and thought that Bjj was Ne Waza on roids, showed the first gracie in action tape to my father a judo instructor and it added greatly to our play. My son currently is a bjj purple belt submission machine and if my body wasn’t so messed up at 58 I would do it for the love of it.
    Finally beware of challangeing old men lol. You might get me, or many much tougher, say Google Jim Harrison for one.
    But please continue I love history and the back and forth even if it gets a little disrespectful.
    Thank you

  60. Almost every art of Jiu Jitsu ,Kenpo, Yawara in Japan are descendants of Tenshin Katori Shinto Ryu.
    Which is basically Kenpo Jiu Jitsu. Judo, was brought to the United States by Maeda Sensei, a student of Jigoro Cano. Who was asked by Theodore Roosevelt to teach his techniques of Jiu Jistu.

    Maeda was pinned by a 300 lb Offensive Guard from the United States Naval Academy. He was so embarrassed by the incident he left the country and moved to Brazil. He was met at the boat by one of the Gracie’s who introduced him to Helio. Maeda had no money or place to stay so in exchange he taught Cano Judo to the Gracies in exchange.

    At this time Judo focused on the joint manipulation and different Waza. He taught these to the Gracies. Thus Gracie or Brazilian Jiu Jitsu was born. While Kano began focusing on the throws and this became the focus of Japanese Ju Jitsu or Judo.

    Okazaki Sensei began teaching forms of Jiu Jitsu in Hawaii. He learned Kapu Lua from Hawaiians like Kaihewalu, Kali from bands of Philipinos, and Chinese Kung Fu Sil Lum Pai from Wo Chung .

    Mitose was teaching a form of Kenpo/ Kempo and Chow and Bobby Lowe Arther Keawe among others were cross training in Sil Lum Pai, Flowering Hand (Lua) of Hawaii. These FIRST MIXED MARTIAL ARTISTS in America. Bobby Lowe went on to be the highest ranking Kyokushin Shihan in the World, and the first Kyokushin Dojo outside of Japan. Chow taught many others including Bill Ryusaki who was Benny Urquidez’s instructor.

    Yes then there was Ed K. Parker, friend of Elvis and founder of the first International Asian Martial Arts Tournament. Where Jun Fan otherwise known by his friends as Bruce Lee. Was introduced to the World.
    As for Parker’s fighting abilities, as I get older as many do the body does not function the same. Especially if you have heart issues. Tired lethargy are part of it, shortness of breath another.
    So to judge based upon that is assuming a lot.

    Parker died of a Heart Attack at a fairly young age. So maybe just maybe, just maybe he was focusing on the mental aspects and depending on his younger acolytes to produce the movements.
    But what can not be taken away was the profound effect he had on Martial Arts in the Western world.

    So, truth is, WHAT IS ALL THE FIGHTING ABOUT? We have all gained benefit from Parker in some way.

  61. FYI MY friend was the training partner of Kimura and Donn F Draeger at the Kodokan in Japan.

  62. I find it very hard to take anything posted as being credible when the author who wrote this piece does not have his or her name posted to the article. Who wrote this??

  63. Mills you are a criminal, here is proof:
    Name: Mills L Crenshaw
    DOB: 08/19/1936
    Offense: FAIL TO MAKE/RENDER/SIGN/VERIFY A TAX RE
    Category: Unknown
    Case Number: 499821
    Record Date: 02/12/2002

  64. LOL…What nonsense! Yes there was a tax dispute and a case filed. Corrected returns filed, all back taxes and penalties paid and that file is so old it is about to be expunged. That record will be cleared; but you will still have to live with the sick and demented person you are. Best of luck with that.

  65. Steve,

    You are absolutely correct. Over the last sixty years, from time to time, I would hear fictional stories from blowhards claiming to have backed Ed down or they “knew someone” who had done so. My answer was always the same:

    “Really? When was their funeral? They’re not dead? What hospital are they in? Not hospitalized? Then it didn’t happen.”

    It’s very much like the idiots who demonstrate their ignorance of the mechanics of the martial arts by saying, “Oh Kenpo’s no good, those guys are always slapping themselves.” They condemn themselves as second class fighters because they have never learned the concepts that Ed Parker developed involving speed patterns, anchoring secondary blocks and the fact that bouncing off your own body can double the speed of a block or strike. They are also ignorant of the fact STOPPING a pattern of motion, block or strike, consumes both time and energy not lost when the pattern is redirected by bouncing off one’s own body. That’s alright. Let them continue in their ignorance. Feel sorry for them. They were not trained by a true master of the art.

    Cordially,
    Mills

  66. Ed/Bill/Robert:

    Where’s the video clown?

  67. Sorry, but you are a fool. Steve, Ed probably never got more than a brown.
    FACT-Mills was on the “committee” that promoted Ed from 1st. black to 5th. black
    FACT- Ed was.again promoted from 5th. to 10th. by his same cronies
    FACT- Ed never competed
    FACT- Ed virtually never taught
    FACT- Ed was told he would drop dead by fitness trainer Terry Robinson in the 70s as he was in such deplorable physical condition
    FACT- Ed dropped dead from a massive heart attack due to his NEVER training and horrible health habits
    FACT- Ed was chosen off by at least 2 people and would not fighr
    Ed spread the stories of all his “legendary” street fights.
    All the above are FACTS and provable. Hey Mills- deny that you promoted Ed with all your cronies!!! And you all could reap economic benefits from this charade.

  68. Robert,
    Whoa man take a breath. No dispute on your facts all true. Although I’ve been studying Kenpo for 30 years (I’m 55) I’ve never had the opportunity to meet Mr Parker. However I’ve trained and studied with many of his first generation students and others as I took advantage of the available seminars in my areas when ever possible.
    You see, yes he was a brown belt under Chow. Mr. Parker had all the Kenpo he needed from Chow. His art as it currently stands is so much more than the rudimentary movements Chow taught.
    As for his rank, well, who else would you want promoting him? A committee of peers makes sense and is the norm in many organizations absent a central leader. Ed Parker was the master of Ed Parker Kenpo.
    Ed Parker was a big Hawiaan who loved to eat. Had he gone and had a physical perhaps a bypass would have saved his life. We are all responsible for our own health.
    As for Ed Parker competing, I can’t say. He was a teacher and there were plenty of his students who did compete: Tom Kelly, Lee Wedlake, Frank Trejo, Manny Rejes, and many more all over the country have competed under the Ed Parker banner. Recall the Internationals?
    As a guy who is fond of facts, look out at the Kenpo landscape across the country and the many different off shoot systems that trace their origins back to Ed Parker. People like the Tracy’s and Nic Cerio Kenpo. Jeff Speakman, Skip Hancock, Sean Kelley in Florida, Bob White, Paul Dye, Joe Palanzo, Dennis Nackard (these are the instructors I can name) all practice a version and as closely aligned with Ed Parker as they can make it and as they understood it. If they want to add to EPAK they’re free to do so.
    All these people have trained countless more students who in turn may have started their own studios and the flame is carried on. All because of Ed Parker.
    We are all flawed, even Ed Parker as you have succinctly pointed out, but Ed Parker was also a truly great man and a martial artist who’s legacy continues on.
    Have a safe and enjoyable holiday week.
    Steve Shaffer

  69. I’ll answer this easily- Parker virtually never taught and at his seminars all he did was talk. If you want a real seminar go to one of Paul Vunak’s or Libre Fighting. They will run you into the ground.
    The Internationals are a non-contact event and meaningless- the officiating was often horrible and mant times rings were stacked with one competitors school. Read Joe Lewis opinions about non-contact tournaments- I helped run the Internationals several times.
    As to his promotions- he could have gone back, apologized, and been promoted. But you forget a key factor- Parker was LAZY! And he was also dishonest. He constantly made promises he never kept, late with promotion certificates, made commitments to his instructors and then broke them, lied about people (Paul Dalton in particular), and neither trained nor taught.
    Do not use Palanzo as a reference- he is a clown. I watched his videos and he is a complete zero. Like fake religions people became brainwashed.
    My goal is simple- I don’t want somebody getting a real life situation and getting hurt or killed because he put his faith in bullshit. And Kenpo knife techniques are REALLY dangerous. Paul Vunak talks about irresponsible teaching in regard to the knife- he is right.
    Also watch the Joe Rogan show with Bas Ruten. They are talking about “fake martial arts.” They discuss how many MA people say “I could poke you in the eyes.” Ruten’s comment to them is “OK, and I am better at that than you are.” And when you ground fight you learn about protecting your eyes.
    Now as to “more than rudimentary movements”- THEY ARE ALL WRONG!!!!!!!! The blocking is backwards, the “minor hits” are ridiculous, and many techniques put you in a worse position that you started- Clutching Feathers, wide open to be punched in the face, Twin Kimono wide open to be head butted in the face, Lone Kimono, wide open to be punched or kicked, Five Swords you are open for a back hand cross on the block and open for a hook on the heel palm, etc…
    You sound like a nice reasonable guy. But I have been doing this all my life- I don’t want people hurt by stupidity. So do something that I suggest to many- go in the ring- you will get clobbered. Resist the techniques and do not cooperate- the techniques fall apart instantly. For example, have somebody do Twin Kimono on you- just do not straighten your arms- they become baffled. You play like you practice.
    As in Clutching Feathers the aggressor GENTLY lays his hand on the person’s scalp and stands there while you pound him. Look at a hockey fight- grab the jersey hit the face. In the street- GRAB THE HAIR HARD, PUNCH TO HEAD. So why in the name of God would you step back and PERFECTLY frame your face with one hand on the head and one to the armpit? Can you not see how vulnerable that leaves you?
    In closing, I was training some Kenpo guys. They were green to brown belt level. I started resisting the techniques, and they were flabbergasted. They did not IMMEDIATELY go to a new technique as they say you will- they froze. At that time Kenpo had the 128 technique system. We went through all 128- most left Kenpo as they determined, by actual resistance and my insights, that of the 128 MAYBE 10 could work on their own, and some by the changes I showed them So a max of 20 out of 128. That’s a piss poor showing.
    You have a nice holiday too. Mine will be great as our 19 year-old is coming home from university for Xmas to New Year’s DAy.

  70. Quite the discussion. Allow me to break down some of the information you dispute. Let’s say on Twin Kimono you don’t extend your arms. You immediately switch to hooking wings modified with a knee to the groin as opposed to a kick due to range. The raking hammer fist then is converted to an elbow. If you know the techs you should see that this adaptation will work. As for your argument of clutching feathers leaving yourself open for a punch in the face, possibly if you had been trained incorrectly. Your pinning hand is acting in dual purpose. It’s meant to be used as a close cover while pinning. The thought behind the tech is to pull your attacker off balance while you strike the nerve in the armpit. You are correct when you say the techs won’t work. But that is not what they are about. These are puzzle pieces. If you truly understand the system then you realize that adaptation is the key to using the movements not merely trying to accomplish 5 swords by the numbers. By submitting a green through brown belt to an attack that isn’t ideal is like pushing a 3 year old down and telling him that learning to walk is ineffective. Most of the information in the system is still being ingrained and usually the idea of having to switch techs in mid stream doesn’t come along till black belt is achieved. The fighting principles are sound learning to adapt is a level of training 90 percent of martial artist unfortunately never reach. The adaptation was Parker’s goal for his students. Remember he said he wanted to teach you to be a mechanic of motion so that one day you would become an engineer of motion. Adaptation. Which if you have ever been in a street fight you would know that is the only way to win…,As for the history of Mr. Parker I can only say I have read and heard many stories but I can neither confirm nor deny these stories. It is not of my concern it neither helps nor hinders how I train. Remember Bruce Lee? Great physical shape, died younger than Parker. And where is Lee’s sparing videos? But that doesn’t seem to bother you? I only know people of good character that trained with Mr. Parker that stand up for his character. For me that will have to do. As for your tech video I would actually love to see it, I am regularly examining the techs to see where the weakness is to make myself a better martial artist. This keeps me out of the ideal phase since I know for a fact that a fight never goes as a script would play out. If you ever make the vid please share we all might be riding the same track.
    As for the character grievance you have, it will have to just haunt you until you find your own peace with it. Parker is dead and dead men cannot defend themselves. Those who are loyal to him will remain loyal and those who are not will not be.

    Merry Thanksgiving!!!

    • So hw did a provable liar like Mills set the record straight? I did choose Ed off and he hid behind Lelanis dress

    • My grievance with Ed does not haunt ne at all. What haunts me is people being lied to and being at risk by Ed’s stupidity and lack of knowledge. My grievance is 40 years old and why I am now speaking out is Ed’s techniques are all bullshit.

  71. Nice ideas, but not factual. All the alternate techniques are just as flawed. For example you use the back knuckle abdomen strike in Twin Kimono- USELESS!!! Watch two guys on the line in a football game- that is how people really push and grab. Your techniques will fall apart when attempted. But don’t believe me- just resist and watch the techniques fall apart. And I mean RESIST- like in a real fight. Do not gently lay your hands on the guys chest and stand there while you destroy him with his blessing.
    Like 30 years ago we did a charity demo for an injured guy. All the Kenpo people there asked “why don’t you use Kenpo techniques in the demo?” They knew we had studied Kenpo. The response was simple- “we have actually hit each other and resisted them and they do not work.” They were shocked.
    To digress as to how deep the BS goes- Think of Mills comment that Ed Parker was Jumped by 5 sailors and beat 5 guys armed with knives and clubs in 5 seconds- REALLY!!!!
    That is the type of idiocy I am talking about. So let’s break it down:
    1. 5 sailors- how would he know they were sailors? If on leave they almost never wear uniforms and I believe Utah is short on naval bases.
    2. 5 guys with knives- Paul Vunak is known for street fights. He is also a knife expert. I have been at his seminars where he discusses knives- 1 guy is a nightmare, 2 guys almost impossible, 3 you’re dead. Please do not even attempt to compare Parker to Vunak, and that is on so many levels.
    3. 7 seconds for the fight- who timed it? That comment is absurd.
    As long as people keep spouting tales of false bravado their students are at risk.
    As to the techniques and shifting to another one, who cares? So you transfer from one bad technique to another bad technique. I find it mystifying that people do not look at say clutching feathers and start laughing. And in a real street fight you do not have time to switch- FIGHT’S ON.
    Have you ever had a real street fight? The mats are not the street. As Bruce Lee was saying before he died- “Wake up.” Mast MA students are in a cult like coma. How do people follow Chosun Ninja or Freddie Lee? And I was there- I though Ed was a God. I just knew all his stuff worked, until I got into the ring and after I saw a Kenpo guy get owned in a real fight in Portland, OR.
    Thanks for the holidays wishes, and man I MISS Turkey Day (my favorite holiday bar none). I haven’t lived in America for a long time. So ahve a great Xmas and a happy New Year.

  72. I chose him off when he was alive. He had his wife call me to let me know about his heart condition. Coward? What started this was him calling a health club I was teaching at and him telling the owner he would trash my students- now me. So who s the coward?

  73. Your comment in regard to my kids makes no sense at all. And I feel TKD is more absurd than Kenpo. I would teach my kid or grand kids JKD, BJJ, boxing, and some weapons. My 6 year-old grandson is just starting in judo.

  74. There are several videos of Bruce Lee sparring- and full-contact with gear against Dan Inosanto. I believe you made reference to the fact that if Twin Kimono does not work you go to Hooking Wings? Also a very weak to useless technique. You see in Kenpo you are taught that I will do A, and that will make you do B- BS. You never know what a person will do when hit. I was teaching a PFS class in Ridgecrest, CA. A guy I was ground fighting with spun with a elbow and busted my nose all over my face. I was bleeding profusely- like a faucet, I didn’t even know I was hit or bleeding until people asked me to stop. This A to B to C to D idea is absurd. There are far too many variables,.

  75. Life is too short to argue over what will never be settled. Everyone believes his this is the best or that is the best, but all systems are derived from one pond. Daruma Buddha Boddihatsiva Brahman priest. Shorin Ryu equals Shaolin equals, Qui Na, equals, Kung Fu, Kempo Okinawa equals Japanese Kara Te.
    Silat is derived from Hokkein Gung Fu, and was influenced by South Malay peoples, who had there own fighting methods, Silat Seni Gayong, which influenced Kali Phillipines, Kenpo was derived from Kung Fu Fukien, but each culture had some of it’s own methodology. Kento became Kempo, Chi Na became 5 Schools of Kito Ryu ( Chen Gempai) and Jiu Jitsu which was taken to Brazil by Maeda who taught the Gracies and became Brazilian Style.
    All that has happened is in the United States the systems have been reassembled and called by systems of each choice. San Soo is Americanized (Since Woo was an American from Oakland), Jeet Kune Do is American (Jun Fan San Francisco), Kenpo is American (Mitose/ Gunso).
    They were brought reassembled influenced by the teachers (Most Americans born here) using their Ancestral exposures to teach their forms of combat, but with an ideally American flair.
    They Parker, Okazaki, Kaihewalu, Lee Jun Fan, Han, De Thours, and more. All traded ideals, and realized that to truly understand it all you must “Discard the classical mess.” which means the 3 years of standing in horse stance to start, and foment cultural enthno centric Tongish style ideals.
    So instead of fighting this or that, rather say hey James Wing Woo was a big influence on E.P. who in turn opened the United States to the Bruce Lee June Fan and the Asian World of Martial Arts to the World.

  76. Even Boxing was derived from French Savate, which is believed to come from South East Asia. When the British lost a fight between them and the French so the Duke of Queensbury set his rules enforced in England. So they would no longer lose.

  77. It is a simple answer to this A to B to C to D is elementary.
    A.B.O.U.T. spells a word
    but you might go from A.T. or Z to C but the training has to start somewhere.
    E>P explained first write letters, then spell words, the define and write the dictionary
    But one must first learn letters.
    He called it the Alphabet of motion.
    If one were a true master one would understand that this form and function is the key to every art form.
    Including San Soo.

  78. Mr. Crenshaw:
    I “stumbled” onto the site and read your response to my previous posting on Ed Parker.
    Since the new year is just hours away, and I don’t want any “old baggage” in 2015 I felt compelled to response.
    First, I am not an ass.
    Second, what I posted came from reliable sources, some who were there as part of Millo Savages corner.
    Milo had nothing but respect for the Martial Arts, but he and some of his people felt he was set up.
    Other posters have asked, now before we continue ANSWER…why didn’t Master Parker take the fight?
    Well, lets see.
    Chances are that it would have been a stand up slug fest which based on real fight experience and conditioning Milo may have won.
    And for Gene, according to you to say “I don’t care if he wears brass knuckles” 🙂
    I didn’t post to disrespect Parker, just thought the topic needed to be addressed.
    As for street fights.
    I’ve worked in biker bars, hip hop night clubs, and discos like Valentinos.
    I know what works and what doesn’t on the street.
    I’ll put up my street MA experiences against ANYBODY because I’ve lived through it.
    Very few, if any MA Master regardless of style would have an easy go against 2, let alone 4 or 5

  79. Furthermore, why is a 77 year old man chellenging people?
    Look, I understand how you feel about Ed Parker, but grow up!
    You wanna know guys from that era that were real and had effective MA fighting skills?
    Karriem Allah
    Aaron Banks
    John Kuhl
    Frank Ryan
    Jim Arvanitis
    Oh, a real Kenpoist who could fight Steve Sanders.
    List too long to go on.
    Now, show me some love and respect.
    As your first New Year’s resolution an apology to Monfongo for all the not so nice things U posted are in order

  80. Monfongo,

    I don’t read this site any longer. I do get notifications of posts like yours so I am responding. FIRST, I don’t have to “get reports from someone in one of the fighter’s corners. I WAS THERE! So were some of my students at the time, so don’t blow second hand smoke to perpetuate myths. There are enough eyewitnesses still above ground to verify what I wrote. THE MATCH OCCURRED EXACTLY AS I STATED IT.

    As to why a 77 year old would extend a challenge, (it is now actually 78) I’ll admit it is out of character, that is true; but my friend, brother and instructor was slandered on these pages by a cowardly know nothing pretending to be a great warrior but proving out of his own words that he knew nothing of the origins of the art he claimed to have taught. The “Commercial” art taught in Haole supported schools only bear a passing similarity to the original art Ed Parker Sr. taught. There are only a handful of us left that lived through the training that gave birth to the Parkerism, “To hear is to disbelieve, to see is to doubt; but to FEEL is to be convinced. Before the rise of the commercial studio, Ed Parker did a lot of “convincing.”

    I really wanted to end this year on a conciliatory note; however, you betrayed your profound ignorance once again by referencing (if I understood you correctly) MMA practitioners as the ultimate warriors. You clearly don’t understand what ED PARKER TAUGHT. I have great respect for mixed martial artists. They are well trained, extraordinarly fit athletes. They compete in one of the most rugged sports in the world. BUT IT IS STILL A SPORT! There are rules! What Parker taught before the requirement of pleasing American sensibilities became a factor, was LIFE AND DEATH, THE QUICK AND THE DEAD. If an attacker rushes you for a takedown and you sidestep, rip his eyes out with a claw hand and sever the nerves at the base of his skull with a hand sword, the refs would most likely frown a little. And if one of those agile athletes did get you down and went for a submission hold and you, to save you life, tore his throat out with your teeth; or if the MMA expert applied a leg strangle and you used your teeth to open his femoral artery, you might face disqualification. The same as you might for slamming the heel of both hands on both temples before driving the nasal bone into his brain. “But that’s not “FAIR” you might bleat. And in mixed martial arts or a “fair fight,” you’d be right. It is against the rules. In what Ed Parker taught there are NO RULES!

    Case in point: Just a few weeks ago 74 year old Tony Martinez (One of my first Black Belts who now runs his own studio) was peacefully eating breakfast at a local cafe. He was thinking about the day ahead and was staring off into space. A huge Tongan (Is there any other Kind?) took offense, He thought Tony was staring at him. Tony stands maybe 5’4”, grey hair, a little guy. The Tongan grabbed Tony by the shirt front and yelled, “Who you staring at?

    Still seated, Tony twisted the attacker’s hand with his left, swept his leading leg and as the attacker’s face smashed into the table with his right hand Tony hit him at the base of his skull with a hammer fist. Blood and scrambles eggs flew everywhere.The fight was over in between two and three seconds. It’s that reaction to the unforeseen that Parker taught; not a stylized combat sport.

    By the way, the police came and were going haul both men to the slammer when the waitress spoke up and said, ” the little guy didn’t do anything, the big guy just attacked him.”

    Don’t ever make the mistake of thinking little old grey haired men are easy pickings. There are still a significant number of us greybeards around who were trained in the original Kenpo. Life and Death; the Quick and the Dead. It may not be beautiful by modern standards; but history proves that what Ed Parrker taught is lethal.

  81. Hopefully, this will be my last post.
    I come from the “old school” cloth of street Martial Arts.
    While I have trained in MMA and handled myself pretty well in both “stand up” and ground against ranked fighters who are much younger(yup…I’m 64)street effective training is what I do.
    Like I also pointed out to several well known Brazilian “ground” specialists, 90% of their submission techniques can be countered with biting.
    Now, back to the subject at hand.
    So far you have insulted me on this forum by calling me as ass and second hand smoke blower AKA as a “blowhard”.
    You sound like a JO!
    Furthermore, I will stick to my opinion that if Parker fought Milo instead of La Bell, Parker would have had his clocked cleaned.
    Oh, by the way that would have happened in a street fight as well.
    I am not interested in reading about your lawsuits or “verbal diarrhea” with other posters here.
    But I give Robert Libby my “thumbs up” for having the “cohones” to speak up and I find his version of things VERY credible.
    Unless you are in stellar shape and have the mental fortitude to back up your childish bravado cease the bad mouthing and “chest thumbing”, you are not as “bad a dude” as you think.
    Lastly, I KNOW there are plenty of senior Martial Artists that are proficient enough to handle most self defense situations.
    I have never and would never underestimate a gray haired, grandfatherly “type”.
    With that, go sit in your rocking chair and watch some All in the family reruns :–)

  82. Dear Monfongo,
    I would first like to apologize for being sucked into some bad behavior, but I get really pissed when people infer that I am a liar. But I agree with what you have said. You mentioned biting. I , like you, also use eye gouging and finger breaking. Own a man’s thumb and you own him. I also am very concerned about people shelling out good money to learn useless martial arts from teachers that have never fought, and that is street or full contact. I urge anybody out there to watch the Joe Rogan Show with Bas Ruten on “fake martial arts.” Very fact based and funny.
    AND A HAPPY NEW TEAR TO ALL

  83. Yawn.
    Farewell,
    Monfongo, or Robert or which ever pseudonym you choose. Your opinion of me is meaningless. I’ve been called worse. Have a nice life…if you can find one.
    Cordially,
    Mills Crenshaw
    Proud Friend of Ed Parker, who was, and is, a Master of the Arts, Innovator, Creator of Martial Arts Knowledge, Teacher Par Excellence, Fierce Warrior, Fast Friend, speaker of truth, respecter of others and a devoted follower of Christ.

  84. Dear Mr. Libby:
    Thank you for acknowledging my posts.
    I believe EVERYTHING you have said and although we have never met, feel confident that you have the experience, expertise, and skills to back up ALL your claims.
    Martial Artists like you and I, who come from the same cloth and somewhat similar backgrounds and beliefs can sense that unique brotherhood.
    Like you, I also believe in the importance of good, solid boxing skills.
    Case in point, I not only had Milo Savage as my trainer, I had other well known former fighters turned trainers work with me as I went through the tough ranking tests overseen by my late, great, but non commercial Shihan.
    Keep in touch, and all the best always.
    I am here if and when you need me.
    Now let me set our buddy Mills straight one last time.

    • Dear Monfongo,
      Thanks for the support. What so much of this reminds me of is religion. You can prove something to them a million times and they still cling to stupid ideas. I am sure that you, like me, are appalled by all the McDojos and people that have never been tested in any way claiming to be masters. My goal is to hopefully stop some poor guy frommaking a really bad decision due to bwd teaching. As I told my students many times “sometimes you run.”
      Hope you had a great New Years!

  85. Mills,
    For the record, I am NOT Robert Libby.
    I am Dan “Monfongo” Santini.
    It seems like MY last post mellowed you out a bit, and that’s a good thing.
    My opinion should be respected, as should I.
    Then, regardless of our differences that respect can be mutual.
    For way too long, decades to be exact many Martial Arts “legends” have been living off of “hype”.
    I ran into one of my older uncles this morning.
    He’s going to be 80 in March :–(
    Then, I thought of you Mills :—-(
    And ya know, I felt kind of bad 🙁
    Understand, that your take or version on Martial Arts history is not the be all, end all.
    People you may have never heard of pride themselves on their honesty, credibility, and dedication to the Martial Arts just as much, if not more so than the legends and pioneers.
    It’s been quite interesting Mills.
    Take care.

  86. As I said, Mr. Santini,

    Have a good life. I was a little amused by your final comments… the importance of boxing, etc. Tony Martinez Sr., The little grey haired 74 year old guy who took out the Tongan bully in a couple of seconds… Tony was a Golden Gloves champion when he first came into my studio in Salt Lake City. He didn’t think what Ed Parker taught (and I taught) would work either…until he got on the matt. Inch per inch and pound per pound I’d still put 74 year old Tony Martinez up against anyone, not in Kenpo, 25 years his Junior…and many Kenpoists, for that matter. But then, Tony mastered what Ed Parker taught. Oh, yes, he also worked as a bouncer, years ago. He was all action, not mouth.

    P.S. It seems to me I heard, somewhere, that Ed Parker had a little boxing background as well. Oh, well…

    Cordially,

    mc

  87. Mills,
    Glad to hear Mr. Martinez was also a GG champ.
    I made it to the finals of the NY GG Open Class.
    And with his bouncer background, well sounds like he and I have some things in common.
    My life is going and will be aok.
    Live in Florida, my better half is 20 years my junior and she loves me.
    Not a whole lot of money, but I’m comfortable.
    And working with VIPS and some of South Beaches celebrity community doing security suit and tie.
    Can’t complain.
    Adios amigo.

  88. During my research on Kenpo I was guided to this site and became interested enough to read the comments and on going debate on Kenpo and most important Edmund Parker.
    Understandably, his students and followers are going to be upset with the general overview on Mr. Parker.
    But, it’s true.
    Mr. Parker was overweight and out of shape.
    While he could move extremely fast for a big man and was more than capable of DEFENDING himself, his poor condition and lack of training would be very DETRIMENTAL to a face off face against even an untrained opponent who was strong and physically fit.
    Mr. Parker isn’t the only recognized name or Master to fall into this catagory either.
    While it may be disrespectful to bring up these issues many years after his passing, my question is would it have made any difference if he were alive to hear it?
    Mr. Parker would have been in a compromising situation.
    Faced with the possibility of having to defend his name and honor in such horrible physical condition.
    Kenpo is a beautiful art, but it’s real effectiveness is miniscule.
    I knew Edmund very well.
    And I feel more than qualified to comment on this matter.
    Edmund K. Parker.
    A pioneer and legend who deserves the utmost respect for his accomplishments, but sadly not his physical condition or training dedication.

  89. Lou Angel, Bob White, and countless other masters of the art; and eventually YOU, Wes, will suffer the ravages of time and encroaching old age. Does that make their contributions of no value? Does that justify younger punks denigrating his accomplishments in order to build up their own reputations, so they suppose?

    If you are of that mind set I pity you. To you Michael Angelo was a has-been painter, Charles Dickens was a reprobate scribbler and the only things of value are yet to be discovered. Virtually every Martial Arts Instructor worthy of the name stands and builds on Ed Parker’s creative Genius. Have they moved on? Of course. That is precisely what Ed taught. He gave his students both the tools and the insight to create. He didn’t create robots his goal was to create “thinking warriors.”

    I trained under him in his prime. There has never been a more fierce, or deadly warrior. Faults? Of course,
    his most grievous fault was that he listened to the council of his enemies and ignored the council of his friends. Now that he is gone, we hear much from those who pretended to know him but only had the courage to speak against him once he was gone. You remember him with white hair and significantly overweight; I remember him as an athletic combatant with a black mane, set off with a genetic forelock, shock of white hair that was the signature of his youth.

    Your memories are of the ravages of age; my memories are of the creative fires of youth.

    • So Mills refers to the ravages of time- Ed was like 42 when I chose him off. I am 63 and still train and teach. Jimmy Woo who is like 90, and who Ed stole his second book from still teaches.
      I have never denigrated Ed to build up my own reputation- I have a good one and do not need that Hawaiian fraud to bolsterme up.
      His 2 references I believe are to tournament fighters, not street fighters.
      All of Mills’ references to great thinkers like Michelangelo and Dickens are merely smoke screens to cover his bullshit.
      He states that EVERY MARTAIL ARTIST WORTHY OF HIS NAME STANDS AND BUILDS ON HIS NAME. REALLY? Benny Urquidez said “he never showed me a damn thing.” Larry Hartsell called him”a Kenpo clownl.” The Gracie brothers have probably never heard of him.
      He says that people never did yhese things when he was alive- he was breathing when I chose him off- then he behind Lelani’s skirt.
      Mills calls him a warrior. Who did he fight? Not me or anybody else.
      Mills claims his fault was believing enemies. His fault was surrounding himself with suck ups and burning his true friends in favor of ass kissers.
      Mills says he was a fierce warrior- he would not fight me.
      Mills is a provable liar.
      In February I will have a video up- I have a promose from a friend to help me do it. I will show
      1. Why tneydo not work
      2. How to fix them
      3. And why some are beyond repair
      4. Why do to these techniques Ed knew nothing abot fighting, counters, body mechanics, or blocking.
      A good video is about 2 hours per video, despite the claims of those tnat never made one.
      Many of yne ideas will be quite basic. People like Monfongo will understand exactly what I am talking about and showing. Many brainwashed followers will simply keep following the same old ways like anesthetized cattle.
      Here is a list of Kenpo people that can fight:
      Larry Hartsell
      Dan Inosanto
      Scott Loring (a true freak of nature)
      Steve Sanders
      Vic Leroux
      Carl Schalio
      George Quinones
      “Big” John Henderson
      Bob Eisele
      Tom Howard
      Albert Cornejo
      Paul Edward Dalton
      Stromin’ Norman Pattiz
      Russ Feinman
      Chuck Epperson
      Bruce Epperson
      I apologize to any that I have left out. As teenager Kenpo saved my life, but by people like Scott Loring, Paul Dalton, Russ Feinman, Norm Pattiz, Albert Cornejo, and Larry Hartsell. I will be eternally grateful. Ed was merely a visitor to a once great school.
      After I post the videos please feel free to ask questions on other techniques. Please the name, and if I do not know it by name p,ease post a video. Unlike Ed I can analyze it and tell you if it works or not.
      To get this out of the way I am old, I ahve white hair, I am fat, bit I can still bang and walk around tneb,ock without gasping for airl

    • Also, I will show the article in the Deseret News that Mille says does not exist. This is merely to show that he is not to be believed.
      And please, if you have a valid question please ask.
      Also, if you have never been hurt, been bleeding, knocked out, or banged up you are not Learning a valid martial art. The Filipinos say “IT TAKES A LITTLE BLOOD AND SALT,” Ane if you are not willing to be banged up take up golf or tennis.

  90. I understand from the war stories of Frank Trejo, that Ed Parker (as any self respecting Hawaiian would be); loved to eat.
    As for his fighting abilities I refer readers to Lee Wedlake or Skip Hancock to research Master Parker’s skills. He visited their schools attended their sponsored seminars and was highly respected.
    Another source would be Mike Pick. All of the above instructors listed credit Mr. Parker with their skills.
    Instead of throwing grenades at Kenpo, go train with them for two years and decide if Kenpo sucks or not. My feeling is that the problem lies with the grey matter between your ears.
    As with any skill set, it’s not the body of knowledge that’s the problem, it’s the practitioner.
    Jeff Speakman recognized that in the early 90s. And cautioned the attendees to be worthy of the rank around their waist.

    Salute!

    • That’s really sweet Steve-how many fights haveyou had? All you are saying is that charlatan A said what charlatan B said- and the daisy chain of lies grows and grows.

    • Please go dandjurdjevic.blogspot He has videos of Ed and he looks horrible, and is 31 years old, so do not use the age argument. His basics were atrocious. No wonder he had to get his cronies to promote him-he had no skills. The person presenting it also has some good insights.

  91. I want to add one more thiught. I am basically from Los Angeles. I usually ride very fast motorcycles like Kawasaki ZX-9Rs or ZX-11s. So abig problem was bike thefts by organized gangs. We were sitting around one day discussing this. So as I teach martial arts some asked for my opinion. My advice was call the police. These are people that may have either numbers or weapons. And in LA if you go after them and shoot them in your garage you could be in serious trouble, and a lawyer could be far more expensive than the bike, and we all have insurance-now to the main point.
    A vey attractive young woman was there, and she rode a nice bike. So she says “I would put on my tobak and go out there and kick their asses.” She was 105 lbs wet. So I started laughing and made a comment about her maybe getting raped. So she got really andry w7th me and feot I had insulted her, her art, and her “master.” So I said “you’re really serious!” She was enraged and stormed off. This is what I mean by bad ideas getting people killed.

  92. Mr. Crenshaw,
    What compelled you to chastise me?
    My commentary about Edmund were done with respect.
    You actually made my blood boil.
    Let me give you a legitimate reason to “rip me a new one”.
    Edmund K. Parker was an “index writer” of Kenpo techniques.
    And the hundreds of his American Kenpo requirements were there for money.
    In his “youth” his silky black “mane” could not compensate for his lack of training, fitness, or
    effectiveness.
    How would Edmund in his prime faired against Joe Lewis, John Natividad, Ed Daniels, even Counte Dante?
    Look, I get it!
    You are standing up for your instructor and friend, but your coming off sounding more like he was the love of your life.
    I meant no disrespect to Edmund but your chastising me pushed my buttons.
    I’ll say it loud and clear.
    Master Edmund K. Parker.
    Excelled at writing made up techniques on index cards, promoted a nice tag tournament called the Internationals, loved to “grub”, was overweight, and coukd throw for 15-30 seconds before gasping for air.
    However, his name and size earned him more respect than his actual abilities.
    No bs, just the truth.
    After all, the truth only bends one way.

  93. Let me add my 2 cents by posting in poetry fashion.
    American Kenpo is effective and great, like it’s creator so let me clear the slate.
    Ed Parker was an honorable man, a true Martial Arts Master my feuding friends.
    Father time makes us all old and gray, and some gain some inches so what I say.
    Ed Parker may have been heavy but his abilities sure were not lame.
    Slander and defame, it’s a crying shame for those in the know can tell all you doubters Ed Parkers skill set was not a game.
    Let’s give him respect and honor the man.
    His positive legacy will live on forever in this great land.

    • To answer that, and from somebody that knew him and worked for him, your little poem is WRONG!!!! As Mr. Feinstein points out his techiques fighting efficacy were “miniscule”, and from videos one can see his skills were non-existent. I do not feel that a man who stole a book from a fine man like Jimmy W. Woo deserves respect, nor do I feel that a man who threatens my beginners deserves respect. To “slander” means to lie, and many of us have not lied. Have you ever even met the man?
      Let me add one more point as to how silly MA can get. When Ed would do one of his little “bursts” his hair would shake or vibrate. So some Kenpoists came up with a whole “scientific concept” about this called “vibrational transfer.” REALLY!!! Just more crap and pseudoscience.
      Also, my friend and I will start filming on February 15th.I will post the videos to Youtube. They will be done in a series. Is there a time limit to Youtube? Each one should be 15 to 20 minutes long.
      I will do “the Five Count” first as it is a Kenpo mainstay, but as practiced absurd; then how to fix it and with a much better ending.
      Then the side headlock technique, but I do not know the Kenpo name (Monfongo, I do believe you will enjoy my method for getting out). And ask why you do it the way you do it in short form 3 when one of the main weaknesses was agreed upon like 35 years ago, but never changed.
      After that Twin Kimono, a truly disadtrous technique, but I will show alternate methods for a front double lapel grab.
      The “back breaker- it starts off brilliantly and then goes to shit, but I will show better options and its weaknesses.
      Thundering Hammers- has so much potential if done correctly, but as done ridiculous
      on so many levels.
      I will also try to get in Clutching Feathers and Triggered Salute. Clutching Feathers is NUTS and non-fixable, triggered Salute starts great and then goes to shit.
      Duribg the videos I will show some basic ideas on how to survive a real fight by not injuring yourself as when you punch a guy in the head and break your hand- a real fight ender for you. If you have requests please send them to the Youtube site.

  94. I’d like to add my input to the drivel that’s been posted here but I can’t seem to get anything posted.

  95. Hey it works! If you post a famous name you’ll pop right up. I’m wondering who really runs this blog? I think it might be our good friend Bobby Liddy-the clown as we all know him. Wow.

  96. Mr. Mills,
    Your input would be very helpful. You have the background to correct this person called Mr. Libby. Apparently, everything we thought we know about Mr. Parker is wrong. He couldn’t kick, can’t punch, can’t hold his hands properly, threatened beginners, lied and cheated Mr. Woo, backed down from a challenge, hosted a fake karate tournament called the ‘Internationals’, taught bogus techniques that don’t work, insults any long time students of his (this includes you) by calling them cronies. But rest assured he is going to post improvements to kenpo such as Clutching Feathers, Thundering Hammers, Back Breaker, and others on You Tube sometime in February. We can’t wait to see his new and improved fighting moves.
    I’m guessing he won’t, but if he does, it will be adjustments that you and anyone else with half a brain in the martial arts, already do.

    Salute!

    • Sorry Steve-this is snibb. I have only a fraction of my posts going up so I figured if I put down a famous name I might be able to get through. It looks like it worked but it’s not really Paul Mills. This website is heavily censored so that only the most decisive posts seems to be making it through.

      My son did run some software however and figured out that Libby, Monfongo, survy, and Morgan are all the same guy. It appears that our boy Libby lips seems to be posting and then reposting under different names to drive traffic to his website.

      You talk about a fraud!
      We also don’t know for sure, but it appears that the trash(Libby)is not in Europe as he states but is somewhere right here in the US of A.

      • I never said I was in Europe. I live in SE ASIA. I have been here for 14 years. Snibbs I truly feel sorry for you. As to your assertions that I am using different bames, yiu are wrong. So let your imaginary son do all the web searches he wants.

    • Steve, look at the carrot symbol. Snibbs posted this as if he were Paul Mills.

  97. Mr. Libby,
    Geez, you must be seriously angry person. You can’t even carry on a debate in a civil way. Yelling (by all caps) at a dude writing poetry? Really? I bet you kick your dog too. Seriously, though, I look forward to your new and improved kenpo moves on You Tube. Be careful not to change the timing, prefix, or suffix with any added moves, or rearrange, or delete cause if you do, you’ll be doing Ed Parker Kenpo by using his alteration principles. If using the lead arm sucks for you, then don’t use it! See there? That’s called deleting, (part of the alteration principles) Still kenpo. Unless you jump up 7 feet high, and land on the attackers shoulders, that’s not in kenpo, We’ll have to give you that one.
    You mention you’ll be starting out with the 5 count technique, by that, you must mean Five Swords. (Hint: you don’t need to block, just take the fight to the attacker) Mike Pick does this very effectively. Still Kenpo.
    You say you taught at Ed Parker’s school and he was never there. That’s called delegating. He most likely was out of town sharing his knowledge and growing the system. If not, he could be home…with his family, So what?
    If I was running the school in his absence I would have considered it an honor to be the head instructor.
    When you tape yourself, we don’t need 15 minutes of your verbal analysis, just tape the techniques as you do them for everyone to be enlightened.
    You keep raising straw man arguments about things and controversies that have been fought decades ago. For example, The weakness of kenpo cross over manuevers, then you refer me to a blogpost by a kungfu guy in Australia, who posts a video of his Tiger/Crane form, which has nearly all crossover foot work. The blog then has a video of oriental karate tournament where one person backs up, and gets his legs tied up trying to retreat. Sorry for him, but what about the cross over moves of the late great Kenpo man Tom Kelly, where he sweeps his opponents to the ground and scores? (On You Tube by the way) This guy then spends a lot of time criticizing the open hand position of Ed Parker in various martial stances. Why? Don’t you think for any given moment Parker couldn’t make a fist if needed? And your blogger friend lumps Ed Parker’s hand position with Peter Sellers fake karate hands in Pink Panther, Hell, Ed Parker probably told him to do that for laughs! Ed Parker was in a few of those films as an assassin. You should watch those Pink Panther films, the laughter will do you good.
    Speaking of the poor stances of Ed Parker, sorry man didn’t see any, unless you referring to the demo from the Internationals where he systematically takes out his team. It’s a DEMO!, not a real fight, its a pre arranged display of you could do, not what may actually happen. See there? I’m defining what a demo is to you. Defending a position you should’ve known about years ago. (what a Demo is)
    Your constant insults to Mr. Crenshaw,… dude, he was on the mat with Mr. Parker before you learned to ride a bike. Lighten up. As for this book you claim Mr. Parker stole, You must be referring to the SOCK. (Secrets of Chinese Karate) A stripped down version of Two Man set is drawn there. I have a copy, it’s not for instruction, but for basic history and to generate interest in the martial arts. You really think Ed Parker made a lot of money with that book? If Woo was so cheated was there a law suit? How do you know Ed Parker didn’t pay him on his own?
    Get over this anger man, and yes I’ve been a few fights, and I did do fairly well, but as you said, punching heads hurts your knuckles. Mine were sore for a week, but I won the fight. I’ve been hit by Mike Pick, and tested in front of Skip Hancock and taught self defense at the college level. I have put in the time needed to attain my goals I’ve set, But for you, it is never enough.
    I served in the military, US Army, but you’ll say, why not the Marines, I attained the rank of Sergeant, you’ll say, how come not a Captain or General? I can do 40 push ups, that sucks, why not 100? I can swim, you’ll say, well, why haven’t you swam the English Channel? Your arguing is endless circular nonsense.
    You bang the podium about fake martial arts and artists. I get that we as instructors have a responsibility to pass on the knowledge so that our students are worthy of the rank they attain.
    Some people take martial arts to the ring and compete in MMA, boxing, whatever; others like the work outs and the confidence knowing a martial art gives them. So what if people don’t fight full contact, its not for everyone. And I caution that if a student did everything shown in Back Breaker, they will go to prison.
    Kenpo is a sliding scale man. You can take it to what ever level you want, military special forces, full contact, or 3 times a week, and a tournament on Saturday. Get over it.

    • A little more here- you say “how do you not know that Jimmy didn’t pay him off.” You classless accusatory little fuck. I do nit qgree wuth Jimmy’s system, but he is a man of great integrity who loves his students. For you to insult this 90 year old oegend sh8ws what a typical Kenpo shithead you are.
      So I am confusedl. A lit of videos say Mike Pick. I get one guy that looks my age with a bushy trey and blafk beard. The others have a ckean cut guy who looks like chemistty teacher. Which one is Pick? In either case my wufe said “honey, why do all these Kejpo always jyst Talk? When you teach you bite oeople and throw yhem around and actualky hut them.”
      Whoever I am seeing it is moer EPAI bullshit. And some comnented that they woukf gett killed in a street fight. So when and where?

    • Are you NUTS!!!I just watched a video of you in Tallahasee, FL going for yout 4th. degree. You are a putz. You have salt and pepper hair, glasses, about 50, snd I would guess 5’10” and 170. I have 6 month students that would tear you apart. I have to go to Califirnua, then to Dallas to see my grandchildren. After Dallas I’ll swing over to Tallahasee, we’ll dance. Are you still there? Pkease let me know. I realky want you to show me how deadly Kenpo is.

  98. I look at these comments and question your sanity. Skip Hancock “taught at a college level”. Are you nuts all the time? 2hat university offers MA as a degree?Then you talk about Tom Kelly sweeping a guy-in aNON-CONTACT TOURNAMENT!!! Then you accuse me of kicking my dog. I train dogs. I yave a 1/2 Rottweiler that worships the ground I walk on. A guy heard me talking about my dog. So he said to my friend “he would die for his dog?” My friend said “he would.” My wife once said “who do you love more-me or Kobe?” I said “you haven’t saved m5 life 6 times.” She knew I was kidding. You are so nuts that you would need 10 years of therapy to tie your shoes. You make insane generalizations abiut somebody you have never talked to and about a con artidt losthed by many. So to be blunt FUCK YOU YOU PRISSY LITTLE SCHOOL GIRL. You are a typical Kenpo clown. Same deal- when and where?
    Let’s have the metal meet the meat. I am 63 years old, have broken 30 or more bones, had 12 orthopaedic surgeries, and died twice and bet I can kick your candy ass all over the place. No rules, no cups, no bullshit. Judt you and me in your school mano a mano. Put up ir shut up.
    And your ideas about the back breaker are absurd. So when and where? And yes I want to video ut.

  99. You call Ed never being their “delegating”-no it’s calked lazy. You have every bullshit pseuro defense I have ever heard.. so when and where? What makes me angry is jerk offs like you that pose as martial artists and are frauds. If you served in the US ARMY I salute. All posts in the US armed services are honot0rable- whether it be cook or laundry, it is a team. I know peope that blast Chuck Norris because he served in an air force cargo unit. I defend his service in that without cargo the guys on the ground die. It is a team effort. You know nothing about me. I have had over 100 street fights- 90% were defending other people (I currently live in one of yhe most dangerous countries in the world, I have been here for almost 14 years). So who the fuck are you? When and where?
    You praise a man you have probably bever met. I saw his actions. He was a fraud. So when and where?

  100. Your such a tough guy trash(Libby-lips)! Friend of mine says he knows you. Says your “wife” is a dude. So not only are you a fraud, you’re also queer bait. Perfect you faggot. No we’re on to you

  101. OK, I have this figured out. Steve Shaffer writes a letter in support of a Kenpo guy to get his 10th. degree. This 7s also supported by “Ron Chappel, Ph.D..” Ron Chappel does not have a Ph.D. from any recognized university. You are all like TV evangelists- FRAUDS.

  102. Libby,
    Do you even listen to yourself??? I wrote that I have taught at the college level. This guy is comical everybody. Actually, sadly he’s a sociopath. Discussion closed, waiting on your awesome kenpo videos, please hurry.

    • Totally agree. Many posts ago the trash(Libby) was telling us how illiterate we are. Then we get to sample his English and grammar. Nothing but a big talking unemployed queer who posts all day long because he can. He doesn’t have a job.

  103. ROTFLMAO!!!!

  104. Hey you freaking ingrate faggot! Nobody agrees with you! The only people that do agree with you is you as you post under many different names. You’re such a stud!

    • Hey Slob, I mean Sniv wheres your video clown skank?
      Now years later you’ve crawled into your latrine where your
      kenpo krappers can drop brick like turds upon your balding scalp right?
      I hear your on a hidden cam video fornicating with a coyote, true?
      Do you still practice Kenny poo poo quack?
      Are you still yapping or is your breath horrendously smelly from your ass eating episodes with black bears?
      You faggot!
      All talk for years like a bent over queer, right baby?
      I bet you don’t bother wiping your now 6 years older ass hole and allow the crust of dukey to dry upon your CULO!
      You know who I am pantry wearing cross dressing degenerate!
      Go smell your husband or wife’s farts and enjoy the aroma of disgusting donicion darp you piece of SHIT!!!

  105. Libby,
    I’m still here, I’ve posted a video, yes, please show us your totally awesome kenpo. As for college level teaching, it was for classes at the rec center. Not a course for credit. So you have a school? what town? website?
    Stop in anytime, I teach on Thursdays.

  106. Rolling On The Floor Laughing My Ass Off!!!!

  107. Oh you’re such a stud trash!(Libby)

  108. Hey trash(Libby)-you mean you’re not smart enough to figure that out? So in addition to being a fag you’re also stupid. It’s 2015. Get some education tough guy.

  109. You really are stupid aren’t you? So what if you have a wife and kids? It’s called coming out of the closet. I’ll explain it to you sometime you queer. Does you female wife know about your male wife faggot. You’re such a stud!

  110. Ok, so now we’ve stopped discussing kenpo, to challenging each other, is this like a duel or something? So, you would spend extra money diverting your schedule to fly into Tallahassee just to punch me out to prove your kenpo is better than my kenpo? This sounds like a bad movie. Just post those videos you keep promising, we really want to see how you’ve improved Back Breaker, Thundering Hammers, Clutching Feathers, etc. I’m curious to see how you modified them to fit your combative reality.
    Is there anyone in Kenpo you respect?

    • OK, let’s do this. I think I am coming out in like 2 weeks. How about I stop by your school, and in a FRIENDLY COOPERATIVE fashion and I grab you. I will do a two hand front lapel grab and then show you why it does not work? I will show you why Triggered Salute does not work, and in an analytical polite fashion. I will show you why while doing the back breaker NOBODY is going to lay on your knee while you beat them up- Deal?

  111. This faggot is a pretender. He won’t respect anybody in kenpo because he’s a fraud and no one knows him.

    Where’s the video clowny?

  112. You’re doing a video with your friend? Is it a male friend you faggot? Just show us the video and skip your verbose and run on explanations. Where’s the video clowny?

  113. I’m addressing the c— s——-(you know who you are)that are saying I’m Robert Libby.
    You are all either stupid or senile.
    I want all you brainless p—– to get it right.
    And, to prove I’m not Mr. Libby, I am volunteering to stand with Mr. Libby(if he needs me)should all this nonsense escalate to a “throw down”.
    I ain’t here to play games.
    Stop kissing so much American Kenpo rectum.
    Robert Libby tells it like it is, he’s the real deal.
    End of story!

  114. Thanks again for your input Monfongo/Libby. Either that or your his faggot partner.

  115. Hey Monfongo. I guess according to Snibbs we are now getting married. I had better divorce my wife first. Also, where are you located? I looked up your name up and there are a lot of you. I did see a slight reference to you with the Inosanto Academy. And thanks so much for the support.
    As to Steve Shaffer- you and Mills, and several others have called me a liar, a sociopath and a fool. Well, I am smart enough not to do Kenpo anymore. All you people do is give each other a Kenpo handjob and talk about how great you are while you pass around high ranking belts like they’re popcorn. In the old days you wouldn’t have lasted 5 seconds with us. There was a plaque in the wall of the Santa Monica school that said “rest in peace Jim Demecke”- Scott Loring went after him and missed, but his fist went clean through the wall. Another time Scott was sparring with Tom Howard- Tom rolled into a ball to get away and Sott bombarded Tom with hooks and upper cuts to the body, and said “covering up won’t do you a bit of good.” In an interschool tournament Bob Eisele was sidekicked right in the face and got his front teeth knocked- he spit his teeth out and kept on coming. We jumped him to save his teeth for him and made him stop and go to the dentist to save the teeth. Tom Kelly (the Catholic priest, not the Utah one) would fight Dewey Cruise and blood would be flying (both were basically just boxers). Larry Hartsell would drag me into the mats or back area, and while wearing GI combat boots teach me, and would kick me with combat boots. We would turn the lights off and just have side light from the street, then we would do scenarioes of 1 on 1, 1 on 2 and people got banged up. Do your people train like that? NO FUCKING WAY!!!
    I gave you a long list of Kenpo people I respect. And I’ll tell you why:
    I respect Steve Sanders as he was in the USMC and served honorably, and was a Sheriff. I also trained a bit at the Black Karate Federation under Steve and Donnie- great guys.
    I respect Scott Loring for his raw abilities and intellect, and he was great teacher, but he made us fighters.
    But right around the ear;y 70s Kenpo went to shit. People bowing to us like we were GODS, forced to wear their belt knot at the side of their hip, and watching it become a cult. I was in a local LA supermarket with my girlfriend. A Kenpo green belt jumped in front of me, performed the very elaborate and long Kenpo salute, and then asled “is there anything I can do for you Mr. Libby?” I of course said “like what?” My girlfriend asked if he was nuts, and he embarassed me, and made a fool of himself. I was at the Urquidez Bros school and a Kenpo brown belt walked in and did the same thing- Arnold almost threw him out, it was embarassing.
    I always said some Kenpo guys can fight. In Chico, CA there are the Epperson Bros. Bruce Epperson had a squabble with another school. So Bruce went down to the school to fight the guy. The guy wore body armor, Bruce didn’t. Bruce dismantled the guy, but never once used a Kenpo technique. He used boxing hands with kicking.
    While in Chico we all had breakfast with Bill Wallace. And I was discussing the old days and how laughable tournamants had become- no standards, no form, power, or focus. Bill agreed 100% and the Eppersons and others were somewhat shocked by this. And Chuck can fight too.
    But as I look at this you have also referred to me as a “sociopath” and a clown. That nobody should listen to me. No, they should listen to you and your other Kenpo tough guys. And here is why-he hit him with a back knuckle, that’s Kenpo. He hit him with a right cross, that’s Kenpo. You teach that a technique is a series of basic moves. Yet none of your patterns as practiced wotk in that technique pattern. Sure, when you do Five Knives you look swell while he stands there and does nothing- very impressive. I too can hit and punch an unmoving object. Also, people hit back, and for real.
    So a duel? Sure. I will merely walk into your schol and as they say “own you.” But I will not hit you or kick you. Watch the video where a Gracie DESTROYS a Kenpo black belt in like 38 seconds. Then does it again. You’ll see that known Kenpo techniques could even come close to working, no eye shots, no Charging Ram as he took him down, and Charging Ram is the Kenpo defense for a tackle, just a Kenpo fool getting owned. Good thing for him it was not for real.

  116. LIsten to me you pathetic little fuck- if you want to insult me that’s fine, but don’t ever insult my wife or children again by your assertions or I will find you and pull your lungs out through your nose. And I can find you.

  117. Snibb,
    The only queer here is you.
    As for my input, like I said previously THE TRUTH ONLY BENDS ONE WAY!
    What do you think would happen if we stood face to face and your filthy, pyorrhea infested mouth said to me what you posted?
    I side with Robert Libby because he is telling the truth and all you big, bad Kenpo “lovers” decide to bad mouth me and try to embarrass me, what’s up with that Mr. Snibbs?
    Go jack off to a photo of Ed Parker asshole!

  118. Robert,
    I’m in Florida, but might be relocating to Nevada in this spring or summer.
    I got your back, no problem.
    You have my respect and support.
    Don’t waste too much more of your valuable time with these “talkers”, they got nothing better to do.
    Be well my friend.

  119. What happened to SW Asia? Like I said earlier, I already know you’re here in the States. You will find you’ll do better with your free-loader lifestyle in Nevada vs. Florida. It’s much cheaper out there. Your comments back and forth to yourself must certainly get boring. You are such a stud!

    Where’s the video clowny?

    I’ve been waiting for almost a year to be enlightened and shown how pathetic our techniques are.

  120. Wow trash- you are so tough! Your run on stories are so inspiring!

    Where’s the video clowny?

    You could have cut two entire, full length movies with the amount of time you’ve spent big-talking and ranting in here.

  121. I should be out soon. I have to go to CA first and then to see my 3 grandkids in Dallas Let’s try to hook up

  122. Yeah, sure thing cupcake.
    You’re such a stud Libby!
    Where’s the video clowny?

  123. This for the site moderator. It is time to block this snibbs jervey guy. His fomments are psychotic. OK, I do jot like Mills and he does not like me, but I do not infer that he is living in Europe with a transsexual, nor do I flaim that Steve Shaffer fucks goats. This guy is nuts and needs some controls put on him.
    THANKS

  124. “Fomments?”
    “I do jot like Mills…”

    And here you were a while ago telling us how we Americans(like you)are illiterate!

    Listen up you ingrate free-loading faggot-it’s too late because of your age to get some additional education, but at least learn how to use spell checker. Even a moron like you might be able to figure it out.
    I’ve said nothing about Steve, but you certainly did. As a matter of fact, I saw his video (unlike yours )and thought it was excellent. Who said anything about goats Nimrod?

    You threaten everybody in here, cuss at them and you can’t take being called a homo? You want me banned because of that? After what you’ve said to people?

    Here’s an idea- since you are the one runnnng this site why don’t you just ban me cupcake?

    You are such a stud trash(Libby)!

    Where’s the video clowny?

  125. Mr. Snibbs,
    Stop inferring that I am Robert Libby.
    For the record I am NOT Mr. Libby.
    And, I still work 8-10 hours a day for a living and still put in my training time to stay in top shape.
    You degraded Nevada by publicly stating it’s perfect for freeloaders.
    Go down to Vegas and tell the “boys” what you think.
    Have a “sit down” with Vinny, Vito, or Angelo :–)
    I’m sure they will offer you some Italian cuisine and vino while spew your opinions :–(

    • What’s that libby(monfago?)
      Vito who? That one of your imaginary goon friends!
      Easy to spot you post as others because of your writing style.
      You-like the cupcake-tell us how bad you are,how you stay in top top shape, threaten, etc.
      The other way to tell is your stupidity. I wasn’t denigrating Nevada at all by my comment(that would be “fomment” for you Einstein). Are you telling me that your dollar will go farther in Nevada than it will in Florida? You should have stayed in school past the 3rd grade Fruitty. Maybe a little less time in the weight room and more time staying current would serve you well monfago/Libby/trash.
      One last question:
      Where’s the video clowny?
      And if you are a different person-same question-where’s the video clowny?

  126. Yo Snibbs!
    You disgusting excuse for a human being.
    I detest your comments about my “goon” friends.
    Unlike you parasite, I don’t “lose” my friends just because they may follow a certain lifestyle.
    Is your wife a transvestite?
    Oh, sorry your “girlie boy” wears panties?
    Slob, what type training regiment do you follow?
    Oh that’s right you follow the Ed Parker program.
    You write drills on index cards and use your mind to embed the material into your Albert Einstein subconscious, right?
    Are your teeth as nice as his were?
    Do you walk around without bathing for week’s at a time like he did as you think up inventions?
    Your writing style and comments tells me you feel that your intelligence level is above mine and Robert Libby.
    Snibby are you a closet dumb f—?

  127. Yes, you’re right about one thing-I am smarter than you and trash(one in the same.)

    Keep up the strong work potato face.

    You are such a tough guy!

    Where’s the video clowny?

  128. Snibb,
    I never said anything about posting a video.
    However, here’s my proposal.
    If I, Monfongo post a video of me training and sparring, will you Snibb entertain to a sparring match with me?
    I’ll make it simple and easy.
    Headgear, 16oz gloves, 3 rounds.
    Now if your response is Kenpo in nature.
    I will entertain your suggestion, fair enough?
    With this post I hope we can put an end to the Monfongo and Libby are one and the same person BS.
    Have a nice day!

    • What are you talking about? You’ve been big-talking about a video for almost a year.

      And no-your little trick of recording a video with trash( Libby)won’t prove anything. I’m not that stupid. All you’ll do is take 1 of your 2 old geezer students that give it to you up the rear and say-“see- me and trash are 2 different people.” Nice try though. And no, I’m not interested in fighting your old lard butt because I don’t want to get sued when you get hurt-even with all the gear on. You’re such a stud monfago/ Libby!

      Where’s the video clowny?

  129. Don’t worry about me getting hurt and then sueing you.
    I will sign paper work so your off the hook.
    But, I’m not getting hurt Snibbs.
    It’s put up punk out time.
    And, I’m as serious as a heart attack about this.
    Maybe, we could have Robert Libby referee.
    I hold my own even now against pro boxer’s/kickboxer, and do OK rolling around with guys half my age.
    I’m not a tough talking paper tiger buddy.
    Street or sport I can handle myself very well.
    As a Martial Artist who is huge on respect I feel bad it’s come to this, but I’ve never allowed ANYBODY to get away with lip service and I’m not starting now.
    Yes or no, what’s your decision so that we can start working on the particulars?
    I’m not going to talk trash against you if you choose to step out.
    Sometimes, it takes a real man to realize when it’s best not to take chances.
    No lectures, just a yes or no.

  130. You’re a pretender.

    You’re so tough!

    I want to be just like you cupcake.

    Sure thing monfago/Libby

    Where’s thd video clowny?

    You are such a stud.

    You don’t have to be in such a bad mood just because you took it in the rear again last night.

    You’re not capable of not trash talking. After all-you are trash!

  131. Snibb,
    You just proved your all talk pussy.
    I said no lecture, just a yes or no.
    Like the little cunt that you are the queer talk starts.
    What a faggot!
    I shoukd rip out your tongue!

    • Dear Monfongo,
      I will probably be coming out in a week or two. I have to go CA, and then to Dallas, Texas to see my grandkids If that works out for you maybe we could knock that video out? Also, as you are In Florida, are you close to Tajjahasee?
      I would like to visit Steve Shaffer’s school and prove my points, but respectfully and not have any brawls. I would also like to show that we are not the same guy. And anybody with half a brain knows this not my site.

  132. Yeah, right Libby/monfago.

    Maybe if you get a job you’ll get a life. Oh that’s right-you only made it to the 9th grade so you can’t. Good luck with that loser.

    You are such a tough guy!
    I heard the only thing you’ve been ripping out is that thing up your back end!

    Hey stupid-where’s the video?

  133. You know what’s great trash(Libby/monfaggot/potato face, Morgan, Survy, etc.?) I get to unplug from this discussion and never hear from you ever again. I get the last word! You’re too stupid to figure that one out, I’m sure. It’s obvious that you’re a fake, fraud, chose your word. You’ve got nothing-other than an elementary education with the immaturity to match. You don’t like what somebody says, and old Libby/potato face, etc. will come and find you and beat you up! Oh boy, that scares me! You come in here and trash Ed Parker, Mills, and everybody else. The exception is when you keep re-posting as different people. Nobody here likes you. You huff, and you puff, but you can’t blow anything down. You can’t even produce a 2 minute video clowny! Even a queer-bait like you should be able to figure that one out. Oh yes, it’s that shortness of education again! I guess you will just have to live with that for the rest of your life.

    So, here is to me wasting a lot of time talking to a fag, posing as an expert on the martial arts, and Kenpo in particular. I won’t be asking for the video anymore clowny, because you can’t do it. You’re a pretender and everyone knows it. And who knows, maybe you will get a visit from DHS. I did forward your threats of violence. I can’t find you, but they can if they choose.

    Well you ingrate, uneducated, slurp from the public trough nincompoop, and big-talker, have a nice life. I sure wish I could have seen the video clowny. We all did. My advice is to leave the homosexual lifestyle. I can understand how no woman would want you, but that doesn’t mean you have to be a lube master.

    You lose.

    I’m sure you’re used to it.

    Bye bye potato face.

    HAHAHA!!!!

    • Faggot Snibb needs a bib to suck on antelope ass, years later do us a favor and take a fuckin bath!
      You smell like moonshine.
      Your teeth are rotten to the core your old whore!
      Show us a video of you dry fucking a blow up doll your master bater!
      Snibb is a piece of anus expulsion!!

    • Hey cocksucker where ya been?
      Snibb are ya sniffing the stalls of men’s restrooms while jacking off to the aroma?
      You big mouth bitch!
      Your an old man/woman/both now.
      Remember me ya fag?
      Look read how I write, remember my comment you worthless vagabond vagrant!

    • Hey cocksucker!
      Remember me?
      Ya still sniffing the seat at public toilets men’s rooms and stroking your 2 inch pecker to the wonderful aroma?
      You piece of garbage!
      Now YEARS later your nuthin but a vagabond vagrant!!!
      I can smell your rotten bo all the way over her in Las Vegas.
      You rotten mouth OLD man!!!

  134. Hey Guys,
    I wish I had never read this site.
    Libby, Monfongo, Snib, Mills, all of you for that matter.
    Is this how grown men and Martial Artists behave?
    Everyone of you should know better.
    You guys are suppose to be examples for the younger generation of Martial Artists.
    Whatever beef you all have it could have been handled differently and without all the vulgar language.
    Shame on everyone one of you.

  135. Well my apologies for that Carl. But in our defense when people call you a liar, when in fact you KNOW they are lying I react.
    Now let me answer your question in a different way. Americans always “deify” or “mystify” the martial arts. Here is an example- the 2 Lewis’s, Joe and Lennox.
    Joe Lewis, 6’0″ and 200lbs. was from No. ACrolina. Served honorably in the USMC as a radioman (VERY DANGEROUS JOB). Wnet on to karate and kickboxing. He did well, but to be fair was very overrated. He was a tough guy who trained hard. But his fans have said things about him that are inaccurate- I am not accusing Joe of anything here. HE is dead and died a credit to the arts.
    Lnnox Lewis- 6’5″ 245. Hit like a freight train ith 41 wins in 44 fights.
    The point to this is that Joe Lewis was always referred to as “lethal.” His “lethal” side kick, his “lethal” reverse punch. Lennox Lewis, who would mop the floor with JOe Lewis, was never referred to as lethal.
    Joe Rogan once said “I learned how to do something really stupid really well (Tae Kwan Do).”
    The point to this is that when a young man plays Pop Warner fotball he is learning how to play football. When a young man learns how to play baseball or basketball he is learning how to play that sport. When a young woman or man does BJJ or judo they are learning to do it right, and how they will street fight or protect themselves or family members. When most of our youth learn 90% of the martial arts out there they are being conned.
    To illustrate this point I will tell you about 2 incidents. One I was involved in, the other one my girlfriend, who was am ICU nurse, took care of the aftermath.
    I was in Portland, Oregon about 40 years ago. My acquaintance (I didn’t know him very well), a Kenpo black belt, got in a bar fight. HE nailed the aggressor perfectly with a tournament reverse punch. And like a tournament fighter he pulled his punch; then he got his clock cleaned. But how could that happen? He had trophies, he was a KEnpo black belt? But he had never done full contact work.
    While living in Chico, CA while at university, a, I believe 4th. degree in TKD got into a fight. I heard he told the guy “I am a 4th degree black belt.” THe other guy wasn’t impressed. So the TKD guy goes for a head kick. The other guy steps in, grabs the guy by the hair and justs lays waste to the TKD black belt. The TKD guy was at Enloe Hospital and was in jeopardy of losing his eye, or maybe just his vision. And his instructor was a guy that had “kicked the shit out of 5 Hellls Angels” in a bar brawl (reminds you of Mills’ story of Ed destroying 5 sailors with knives and clubs). This is the crap that can get you killed.
    So I am far more concerned about reality than some bad language. I am far more conceren that our kids learn reality than a load of high priced BS that can get them killed. I am far happier that some of my students chose to run rather than fight as they were taught. That they never relied on BS and far fetched hallucinatory stories from liars.
    Sorry for the language.

  136. Thank you.
    You have shown more class than the others.

  137. Robert:
    I’m in the Ft Lauderdale area unfortunately.
    I wouldn’t expect you to drive here, but if you ever do let me know.
    Your more than welcome to stay here and I can introduce you to guys here.
    Post a response and I’ll figure a way to get you my direct contact info.

  138. Who is this Squib guy?
    Is he ranked in Kenpo?
    Why all the arguments and bashing on Kenpo and Ed Parker?
    What’s the difference if he won most or lost a few street fights?
    Let the man have his dignity in death.
    We ALL make mistakes and have done something that we regret, but trying to be better is all that counts.
    Kenpo is a VERY effective Martial Art for the street.
    I am a 3rd in American Kenpo and 1st with the IKCA.
    The IKCA would not tolerate any of this nonsense that’s for sure.
    Anyway, as for effective self-defense I challenge anyone on this forum to find a better self-defense system than the IKCA offers.
    While I do cross train in some grappling, I have found that the IKCA has everything I need and more when it comes to protection techniques.
    So there is a very effective and compact Kenpo system that is readily available to anyone willing to come into this brotherhood with respect and an open mind.

    • Please watch “Gracie breakdown.” There is a streetfight between a black guy and a big white guy. The point to it is that the smaller black guy hits the other guy in the head and race several times;the whie guy weathered it and destroyed the black guy. Ask yourself a serious question- yave 7 ever REALLY BEEN HIT? A big element in a f7ght is what y8ur opponent can take, and Kekpo never addresses that super critical issue. Do some boxing and see what you can endure.

  139. I do not know what the IKCA is. After Ed’s death there were a lot of splinter groups formed. As to your comment about Kenpo being effective I would ask you to watch “Gracie fights Kenpo black belt.” The fight is over in like 37 seconds, and the Ken9o guy tried it again-same result. You mentioned Ed and a few street fights. I do not believe Ed ever had a fight as an adult. He ducked Milo Savage, he wouldn’t fight me, and he never taught nor trained. I do not feel that walking around talking for 2 hours is teaching.
    In regard to Kenpo you will hear terms like “cult”, “Kenpo cranial swelling.” Dealing with a Kenpo student or instructor is like dealing with a religious psychotic, they always yave a but or an if, or some explanation or option that you just “don’t get.”
    Test your skills. Go to an MMA school and see what happens. You will get your clock cleaned. Watch Joe R8gan with Bas Ruten on “fake martiao arts.” Good luck in your training.

  140. OK, I know the IKCA. I knew it as KC. It’s Chuck Sullivan and Vic Leroux. To be honest I know little about Chuck. But I do heavily disagree with him over fighting c8ncepts. I once said to him “I do not think that will work.” It was like I had pissed on a biboe. Vic Leroux is more open minded. The problek is they are BOTH 10th. DEGREES! Hoe many does Kenpo have? That seems quite classless to me.
    Back in the day I fought against Vic in our interschool tournaments. Vic is grewt guy, and I know he did some training with Ricuard Bustillo. I bel7eve he dan street right, but not with Kenpo tecuniques, just solid hasics. He can be quite wggressive.

  141. So what your saying is that you take some basic boxing, a few kicks, add a little wrestling and run, lift weights and that will better prepare someone for a real self defense situation over any Kenpo?
    What about Krav Maga?
    Is that better suited for street than Kenpo?
    I’m just trying to gain something positive from your comments.
    You would do people like me a great service by suggesting some training or an art or system that based on your experiences would serve us all better than Kenpo.
    I am not doubting your expertise or anything just looking for answers.
    Hoping I have not wasted my years on something that won’t help if and when I need it.

  142. Yoour first thoughts sounded good. Probably the best I have dealt with is Paul Vunak. See if he has an affiliate near you. I feel an important element in the dtreet is hitting open hand. Get a football, wrestling, and boxing rule book and master all the ILLEGAL STUFF. There is a reason it’s illegal. Also incorporate biting. Good luck with your training.

  143. Felipe, sorry for the shprt response before but I was in a meeting. Let me know where you live and maybe I can guide you to somebody. Also, many people act like BJJ is the only valid wrestling art, but never sell a good judo man short. Judo is a great art. Also, I have a concept I call “gi dependency”, and it is physical and psychological. The gi becomes your Superman suit. You feel weaker without it. And you rely on it for techniques where you grab on. People do not wear gis in the street. You should mostly work out of gi. You should also train with shoes as you usually fight with shoes on. Vunak does an “instant analysis”- does he smell like alcohol or cigarettes? How big is he? Does he move like a wrestler or a boxer? Does he look fit? Does he wear a lot of rings (do not do a hand destruction with an elbow to rings)?
    Also, never ever go outside withsomebody to fight. He may have a weapon that he will not use in say a bar, or he knows his friends are outside (that has happened several times to people I know).
    Never think that anything you learned is a waste of time. Take what you have learned, then change it and make it better. Good luck.

  144. I checked the Rogan/Rutten stuff.
    Also saw a video of some elderly kung fu master pointing at students from feet away and they would drop.
    Then, the same guy fights some dude in a gi top and shorts and gets destroyed.
    I guess you are right.
    Decided to eliminate all but 20 kenpo self defense drills and add bag punching and some wrestling to my arsenal.
    Also, do sprints and pushups for condition.
    Thanks for opening my eyes!

  145. Glad to be of service. The Kung Fu guy is “Kiai Master vs MMA.” He had never been hit, and that’s what I was talking about. What city do you live in? I may know somebody there.
    Paul Vunak has a street fighting series. Paul is a great teacher. He even has stuff to defeat ground fighters with filthy fighting. If you watch the “Gracie Breakdown” they even say that a UFC fight is not the street. There are no rules, and only unknowns. THat’s why the GRacies get so much respect; they are realists.
    I will end with a GRacie/Vunak story: Paul Vunak was talking to a GRacie. APul said “so what do you do about multiple attackers?” “That’s why I own a Sig 9mm.”
    Also, remeber this- if you are in a matched stance (right to right or left to left) block his back hand attack with you front hand, and his front hand attack with the back hand. That is the reverse of how Karate people do it. Always ask yourself “do they do it this way in boxing, BJJ, or Muay Thai?” If not check it out with somebody that knows. These people get hit for a living.
    Never do classical inward, outward, uoward, downward, or push down blocks. I am doing this video in February, and I will have some concepts on it, like how to block MUay Thai knees in the clinch. I will post it here after I download it.
    Good luck

  146. Squibby, oh Squibby, Squib…kind of quiet huh?
    OK, I am done too.
    Bye Bye :—(

    • Hey Monfongo. I just noticed that somebody posted as Paul Mills, yet it has Squibb’s carrots symbol. So who is posting as two people? Maybe tha’s why he dropped off.
      OKAY, I am going to try and post tonight. Some of my English students bought me a Samsung Galaxy Pad for a present. You can do a lot of stuff with it. I will be showing why NOBODY should believe Mills ( I have printed up 2 copies from The Deseret News and Knightridder news service showing that Mills was sued and the report shows some pretty shaky dealings). The report he said doesn’t exist. And as he did an archive search so what he says must be true. I hate to be this petty and do not care about the suit.; it is merely about credibility.
      If this posts OK to Youtube I will add 1 video a week. I am using my daughter’s boyfriend as my “dummy.” Great kid with no training, but he is convenient.
      I will title it Bad Kenpo Techniques.

  147. Ola!
    I Marquito fron Equador.
    Live now in Arizonas.
    The saying fron Senor Squib is very malo.
    He says bad comment about the Gay communidad by says words like faggot.
    Marquito is from that and I too Sandan in Karate and Nidan en
    Judos.
    I proof that los hombres patos can do Ates Marcials and good fighter also.
    Now make demand publico from Senjor Squibb to say he sorry to my kind for says diplor comments and refer to mys kind like we no good.
    Por favor say perdone to us who too have excellente fight and Karate abilidades.
    Just cause we differente no mean se no good con artes marciales.
    Apoolgozes in responde and my type forgive Senor Squobb.

  148. Problem is I have seen the Gracies lose as well now and in the past (Kimura). Does this demean in some way what they teach? I think not.
    Did Parker open the World to yes even the Brazilian System?
    Have any of you talked to Bill Ryusaki and see what he thinks? I have.
    What does the world benefit from one man smearing another who is dead?
    Does a technique work in every circumstance; it does not.
    Does every art form answer every question in every scenario; it does not.
    Is one man better than another? He is not.
    All men have failed, all arts have failed. Many to men who lie dead on the field of battle.
    I have fought many, many, many times. So many I am tired of always fighting.
    Only a fool or a madman wishes to fill his life with rage and anger, and continuous combat.
    This was the lesson that Gahndi learned, and also what Miyamoto Musashi.
    Were they afraid? No in fact they showed much more bravery in not fighting.
    This seems to be the lesson that some on this blog have not learned.

    Did E.P. know what he was doing? I say he did, he had been young and had the gunslinger attitude.
    But a wise man learns his limitations and then respectfully avoids confrontation unless absolutely necessary.
    His heart dictated that.
    So my suggestion to anyone is that of Musashi
    “The way is in the training.”
    Not always fighting.
    Keep Training
    OSU!

  149. WOW! That was some major psychobabble bullshit. You said nothing of any value. Just another meaningless history less8n, much of which was errant.
    The Gracies actually fought, Ed Parker did not. What is to be gained is that some poor person does not get killed by putting their faith in techniques of no value.
    And did you actually compare Ed Parker to Musashi and Gandhi?
    So what did Ryusaki say? Just idiotic inuendo by you. And the way is in the training when what is being taught is valid, and what Ed taught was not valid.

  150. These threads have been going on a very long time. Paul Mills- 10th degree Parker Black- practiced Kenpo Techinques at his own bar in Wyoming. Larry Tatum-10th Parker Black, watch him on u-tube and learn.
    Im a 4th Parker Black been in real fights, Parkers Kenpo works in real fights. Don’t talk about a man after he passes and can’t defend himself. Look at Frank Trejo now, if you don’t take care of urself your health will not last.

  151. What the hell would Larry Tatum have to teach me? Watch a blog called “path of least resistance” by Dan Djurdjevic. Parker was 32, wearing a black belt, and looks laughable at best. Why don’t you drop your bullshit Kenpo ego and watch say Paul Vunak. And you seem to forget thst I chose Parker off to fight for threatening to hurt my beginning students when Parker was alive. He never called me directly because he was a punk. I am sure that you, like Mills, just make up stories to perpetuate the Parker myth. So please spare me the advice from a Kenpo brainwashed fool.

  152. I search for Kenpo facts and history, find this site, read all of yhe comment.
    I then call my cousin in Honolulu whose neighbors are older Kaju guys and knew both Parker and Emperado.
    Would you like to know what I wastold?
    The Emperado crew were bad ass and fought real fights.
    One was knifed to death.
    Parker was know as a big boy who had “decent” speed for a “slob” and 0 fights that they knew of.
    They gave him excellent reference as a teacher, but that was all.
    Mills seems to be the real deal from the YouTube videos I have seen.
    All I’ve heard about Tatum is that he rearly if ever hits the heavy bag and doesn’t like for his students to hit it either.
    What was amusing to read was Parker taking out a bunch of guys who were armed.
    If true, someone should go to the jurisdiction where the beating occurred and see if there is any substantiating document to verify this story.
    As for Paul Vunak, while a legitimate bad ass he was beaten within an inch of his life by a biker gang who didn’t care much about his credentials or Martial Arts skills or reputation.
    Even Vunaks street oriented training was no match for biker-street fighter types(some scary dudes btw).
    All these arguments are pointless.
    When someone like Paul Vunak gets trashed, what’s going to happen to the average, but well schooled kenpo guy?
    Let’s play devils advocate.
    Let’s put Mills, Tatum, or any top notch kenpo guy in Vunaks place the night he fought those bikers.
    What do you guys think would have happened?

  153. Your comments are somewhat rambling, but I feel they are somewhat inaccurate. I know little about the Emperados. But I do know Vunak. So you claim he was beaten by a biker gang. So would anybody else. Your point about how would Tatum, Mills, or a top notch Kenpo guy is simple to answer- they would get slaughtered. Your are comparing an amazing streetfighter, Vunak, to a bunch of unproven mat warriors. I have never seen Mills on Youtube. But I do kow that if he is doing non-contact sparring or techniques against an inanimate person it means nothing. And if you are trying to say that “top notch” Kenpo practitioners are in Vunak’s league you are seriously deranged.

  154. What I meant was that the biggest names in kenpo would do worst than Vunak.
    Are you familiar with the biker incident?
    Unfortunately, nothing that Vunak tried worked and he wound up in the icu.
    I guess what I’m trying to convey without rambling is that if it happened to someone as legit and street skilled as Vunak the rest of us would be doomed.
    After I first posted my friend who made brown with the Speakman crew said that Jeff wasn’t too happy with all the comments about Ed Parker.
    My response was that Speakman should join in and make his opinion known.
    Out of curiosity, does anybody here know of Count Dante and was he street certified?
    All this has peaked my interest in who from Parkers era that had name recognition and rep was the real deal.
    Come on guys educate me.

    • Greg,
      About Count Dante. Black Belt magazine did a 3 part cover story on him in Jan-Mar 1977,. to shed a little light on him. He died in May, 1975, was the founder of the Black Dragon Fighting Society” a mail order karate lesson company. His real name was John Keehan from Chicago, a Marine and Army vet. that had some credentials from Robert Trias’ USKA,
      The articles dive into his background in martial arts, his ‘death matches’, and sadly how he got mixed up in the death of Jim Concevic during the so-called ‘dojo wars’ of Chicago during the late 60’s. His students call the system Dan-te.
      The magazine Defense Combat (Official Karate publicaton), in Oct 1976 profiled the Dan-te leader Bill Aguair, and presented the Dan-te philosophy, an attitude of fighting, not heavy on techniques, but a willingness to jump in. The techniques that were published, showed a mix of elbows, and knees, a shoulder lock, and smashing a head onto a table & striking with a pool cue, (using the environment around you as a weapon) all moves and ideas taught in… wait for it,….kenpo.

      Steve

      • Count Dante has been rated as one of the biggest frauds in MA as has Frank Dux. Steve, you are truly a martial arts idiot. I keep hearing how “bad” uou Kenpo guys are. You are a 4th. DEGREE EPAK BLACK BELT. How about we hook up and see who is still standing? No rules, no bullshit, and no referees. And I am dead fucking serious. A round-trip from Dallas to Tallahasee is like 150. How about it punk? Put up or shut your fuvking pie hole. Iam much older than you and an orthopaedic wreco, but I can kick your ass. So no keyboard antics, me againdt you.

  155. OK-I have been around since 1965. Scott Loring-he could do stuff you would not believe. He was 6 feet tall, 210 pounds and moved like a lightweight. Bullet quick with big hands and feet. We had a rule- Scott and Larry Hartsell were not allowed to spar as nobody wanted to try to break that mess up. George Quinones- technically not the best, but mean and tough. Steve Sanders-Precision in motion, and what a true gentleman, warrior, and friend.
    I am not familiar with the biker incident so I will not comment on it, but I do remember when Vunak was truly cool with my son Aaron, and he still remembers Vu. I deeply respect Vu, but he has his demons.
    Compared with the crew I came up with I view the current Kenpo crew as punks. I see them adding groundfighting that is a joke, and lacking grit.
    Take Huk Planas, a great guy. A talented knife maker, good with a gun, and couldn’t beat me up when I was 16. He is not a fighter. Larry Tatum is technician, but I doubt ge could take a shot. Speakman’s credentials are specious at best.
    I currently live in one of the most dangerous countries in the world-Thailand. Do not believe the travel brochures. In every bad category, human trafficking, drugs, murder, stabbings, rape, etc., Thailand is one of the worst in the world. I have been here since 2001. I have been tested numerous times. The Kenpo crew of today wouldn’t last a week. They don’t have any Hartsells or lorings. They are far too self-absorbed and deluded by their high ranking belts.
    As to Speakman not being happy, I personally don’t give a fuck. I am glad he beat throat cancer, but he isn’t fit to carry Scott Loring’s or Larry Hartsell’s jock strap. I am 63, I have had 12 serious orthapaedic surgeries, and according to the team surgeon for the Raiders football team more fucked up than any Raider he has ever seen, could shred Speakman. Why? Because I can take pain, and know what areal fight feels like. I know what it is like to be punched, kicked, stabbed, choked, and keep going. Speakman and the new breed do not have that type of grit. I got it from Hartsell, Paul Dalton, Loring, and being tested in the street, not the mats.
    As to Count Dante I I know nothing about him, but have heard of him.
    Mills will not respond to this, but it is openky known. Ed went from 1st. Degree to 5th., promoted by his cronies. Then 5th. to 10th., once again by his cronies. How can he be taken seriously? Please look at dandjurdjevic. It is a blog and should come up with “the terrible truth about Ed Parker”. In it Ed is laughable, as he is in all videos he is in.

  156. Sounds to me like you know what your talking about.
    Must see some good Thai boxing over there.
    May I make a suggestion?
    We need someone like you to teach a course on real life street defense.
    As you know, the “in” thing seems to be home study.
    Is there anyway possible for you to produce a DVD home study program?
    I would be the first to buy it.
    Other than that, can you suggest alternatives?
    Hey, I believe you.
    Getting punched in the face changes things if you never dealt with it.
    Maybe you could go on one of those fundraising sites to get the money needed to produce your street self defense program.
    It looks like you have a lot to offer.

  157. First, you mentioned seeing Mills in a video. Can you submit an address. I have been looking and all I get are interviews or his talk show.
    The problem with a video series is marketing. It is hard to get past the companies that run the magazines. They want a massive percentage of the sales. But I have been asked to do this before.
    I now have a “tablet” and my daughters are showing me how to do movies with it. I have an ancient camcorder that is 8mm tape, very slow. I am going to post a trial video in a few days. This will be to express my opinions, set the record straight in regard to Mills’ credibility, and just see how it works. I have never put anything on Youtube and technology wise I am a Flintstone.

  158. OKAY, this is for all. I now have a Samsung Galaxy Pad. It does a lot. I am going to try and post a narrative video tonight. If that goes well I will post again this weekend. I am 14 hours ahead of the US west coast.
    I will show some documents and explain what I am trying to do. Then later I will use my daughter’s boyfriend as my “dummy.” I will start with the 5 count, 5 swords, 5 knives, whatever you call it. Then on to Clutching Feathers, then the Back Breaker. After that Triggered Salute, then Lone Kimono and Twin Kimono.
    I will show the modifications to take the 5 count from a stupid technique to a viable one. With Triggered Salute I will prove mathematically why it, like so many other Ed Parker techniques, are physically impossible to do. Also why they leave you so open to be hit.
    My daughter will be running the camera so it may be a little shaky as to professional quality.
    If you would like me to break down a technique and show a viable alternative I will gladly do it. But some techniques are not fixable- Clutching Feathers for example. I may not know the name of the technique but will look it up. Some of the techniques start great ( Back Breaker, Triggered Salute). then go to shit. Some can be fixed by changing the blocking methods.
    In closing, would somebody please tell me why a technique was devised for a person shaking your hand? And a very stupid one. I also want to show a Kenpo concept called the “1 o’clock punch” that can damage your arm if done.

  159. Okay- I have a narrative video up. This was my first time uploading so the title came up as 20150220 1415361 Now I know where the title goes. It used the video number from my camera. This was an experiment by me and to set some things straight, like credibility. There is no action for now, that will be in a few days now that I have the right equipment.

  160. Okay- while talking to a student we decided that I should do a safety video first. I feel it is more responsible to tell beginners what they need to be safe and do things properly.I will also recommend certain types of safety equipment so you stay safe.
    Also, someone asked about training on their own to learn-NO!. Some grapplaing techniques can do serious orthaepedic damage, and beginners are the most dangerous to work with. You should not be “experimenting” until you have a solid foundation.
    It seems that if you put in bobbomorgan you can see the first video. It really just me talking. The fighting part comes in a few days, but now I know it will post and what to change.

  161. mr libby,,, you trash talk kenpo,,, you say you can handle all the big name kenpo guy,,, may i make a suggestion,,, go look up mike pick,, he is a 1st generation black under mrr parker, he also fought in the marines during vietnam,, where he says what he learned from ed parker saved his life,,, go trash talk mr parker or his art to mr pick,,, better yet go visit his ukf federation headquarters school in calif,, and challenge him… but please ,,, let me know what hospital or morgue,, you end up in

  162. Maybe he’d beat me, but not if he uses Kenpo. And I always love how Kenpo idiots always refer to the hospital or morgue, what a pack of clowns.

  163. And 90% of this is from the mouth of Ed Parker. And I love time references like 9 seconds. Was it being timed. Let me give you another quote, “when Parker ran the tournament the bills didn’t get paid.” All you do is quote a liar. So let’s recount his credentials:
    1. Never got a black belt
    2. Promoted to 5th and 10th by his pals
    3. Stole his 2nd book from Jimmy W Woo, and that was openly known
    4. At age 32 had basics that were so bad they were a joke, not even say a good blue belt, and there is video proof of this
    5. Never trained or taught
    6. Would not fight me, threatened to hurt my students, and had Lelani call me to duck the fight
    And you use Mils as a source, the man who said he ran an archive search in the Deseret News and no such article exists, yet I have copy of it. Hmmm, so who lies here?
    So where is any proof of Ed’s skills? I have been watching lots of videos of all these Kenpo badasses who just beat up guys who stand there- so what? And I have been reading posts by other Kenpo idiots that say “MMA is just a sport and not a deadly street system like Kenpo.” Are you all completely fucking nuts? Go fight Chuck Liddel or George St Pierre and see what happens in a real fight, you will get destroyed. So many competent martial artists talk about the Kenpo ego and how ridiculous it is. You are all so hopelessly brainwashed.

  164. Let me post this again in case you missed it dandjurdjevic.blogspot Please look at the videos of Ed and Dan’s analysis. He was pathetic. So if Chow gave him a brown I cannot figure out how. So I can have zero confidence in anything he says. You also forget that money is a great shaper of opinions. And as Ed had hos pals promote him how can you take him seriously? And 5 young guys with knives and clubs0 BULLSHIT!!!! A complete fabrication.

  165. Who are the 8 people with a 10th you were talking about in your video?

  166. Okay, Larry Tatum, Albert Cornejo, Huk Planas, Vic Leroux, Steve Sanders and Chuck Sullivan are the ones that come to mind right now. Albert used to teach me, I used to compete against Vic in inter-school tournaments, I’ve worked with Huk when I ran the Santa Monica school, Tatum took over as I was leaving, and Chuck ran the Crenshaw school with Steve Sanders. Albert just got his 10th. a few months ago.
    I am a little curious over all the silence about the claims I’ve made; nobody says Ed wrote his second book, nobody denies he was promoted by his pals, never comment on the EP videos and how bad they are, or says I didn’t choose him off other than Snibbs who is nuts, and Mills who lied about something as provable as a newspaper article and lawsuit.
    At least my video stuff is finally starting. I am doing one tomorrow or the next day. I have decided to start with Triggered Salute as it has a great beginning to a shit end with a great timing example as to why Kenpo will usually fail in the street. I will do the safety section at the same time. I may expand the technique as so many are so flawed.

  167. I forgot Steve LaBounty and Tom Kelly, at least I heard they both has 10th.s

  168. Mr. Libby.
    You really need to get back on your meds. I quote and summarize few articles from 38 years ago about Count Dante who’s been dead since 1975. (FYI- I was answering Greg’s question) And all you can do is cast insults and threaten to beat up someone you don’t even know.
    I’m happy you’re not in Kenpo anymore. Your unhappy life, vulgar mouth, threats and insults are not the sort of traits of a person that Ed Parker ever wanted as a representative of his system.
    Because you can’t seem to control your anger, we have a special place for people like you…it’s called jail!
    Oh, and bragging about all your fights seems to me that you keep on being in the wrong place at the wrong time. Who’s the idiot?
    Be sure if you fight me to not punch me. Punches are in Kenpo, don’t knock me down and stomp me that’s Dance of Death, a Kenpo tech; avoid choking me, that’s an attack from Escape From Death, don’t use kicks either since there’s Kicking Set also in Kenpo; elbows? Nope can’t use those, still found in Kenpo, you could apply locks, they hurt, I would tap…no wait, nope also found in Kenpo.
    I suppose you could slap me. Yep, slaps aren’t in Kenpo. Palm heel strikes are, but I’ll allow you to modify them. We’ll, there you go. You win!
    Enjoy your visit to the states and hurry back to Thailand there’s a fight waiting for you.

    • You seem to forget that I chose Ed off when he was alive. He ducked the fight, not me. And for you to say “non-technique is Kenpo” merely proves that you know nothing. They spend 70% of their training on techniques. How dumb are you?

    • I love the part about an Ed Parker representative.” Ed was a liar, thief, and back stabber who threatened to beat up white belts, stole his second book, and wore black belts he never earned.

  169. No, I had fights because I worked clubs. 90% of my fights have been protecting others. But what I love is your cult like adherence to Kenpo stupidity. So if I use a single move like a back knuckle and it works it is Kenpo? Are you really that dumb? I was watching a Paul Vunak video with some Kenpo guys; anything he did they would all start shaking their heads in perfect harmony like a bunch of bobble heads and parrot “that’s Kenpo.” So why not put your skills to the test? You study the most complete system in the world, devised a street fighting genius, what have you to fear? I feel it’s because at your coe you know what I am saying is true.
    So no, I don’t need meds, I just get really tireed of seeing all the martials arts con artists rip people off.

  170. He Steve, just read something very interesting, but it may not be true. That Jeff Speakman said, at a seminar in front of a lot of Kenpo black belts in Venezuela I believe, that “old Kenpo is bullshit and BJJ and MMA styles are the way to go.” WOW, from the Perfect Weapon? And he is agreeing with me? Only I add a lot of filth to the game.
    So where are some comments about how good Ed looks on the dandjurdjevic.blogspot? Where are the remarks abot Ed being promoted by his cronies. I may get pissed about fake martial arts, but at least I am grounded in a martial arts reality, not a con game.

  171. It seems that if you just go to youtube and put in bobbo morgan you get he videos. I have laoded a narrative, a safety one, Triggered Salute, and Twin Kimno

  172. Holy Fucking Narcissism

    Why wait till now?
    Why not beat the guy up when he was alive and film it or take pictures of it?
    Why wait 20 years after the man dies?

    That is why BL was always challenged people knew if they could beat him they will have the clout.

    All these so called artists are throwing boxing punches with no rebounding effect you see the old masters like Parker,Bruce Lee demonstrating in their Non-Techniques.

    Why are older artists arguing over the effectiveness of a base technique when base techniques dont work
    Non-Technique is the way to go and is part of JKD and Kenpo.

    Even Steve Sanders is on Youtube claiming Bruce Lee stole ideas from him and was not a real fighter.

    I hate con artists who dont even know how to throw even a proper martial arts punch (actually you dont throw it the waist does) and then claim that they are here to expose the real fakes.

    Look in the mirror:)

  173. You seem to forget that I chose Ed off when he was alive. He ducked the fight, not me. And for you to say “non-technique is Kenpo” merely proves that you know nothing. They spend 70% of their training on techniques. How dumb are you?

  174. Why are all you senior Martial Arts experts beating up on a boring, dead topic?
    So what if Parker was fat, out of shape, and lazy?
    Was he all that bad and pathetic?
    I’m sure Parker did some good for someone.
    Surprising that not one of the heir apparants to AK or some of his remaining lineage people have failed to step up and give real examples of good things the man did.
    I do not particularly like kenpo do to it’s hundreds of tech philosophies.
    But, I do find it very repulsive that grown men are on this forum bickering about a man who is no longer alive and weather or not he was good or legit.
    Parker can’t be the only hyped “legend” that has questionable background in his MA history.
    John Keehan aka Count Dante was also a hair cutter who was hooked up in several business dealings with the syndicate in Chicago.
    The karate war was due to a beef between schools.
    Unfortunately, some of Keehans loyal students died or were hurt because they didn’t realize what they were getting into.
    They went to to back up their instructor Count Dante.
    I’m not a Parker croonie but enough is enough.
    Let the poor guy RIP.

  175. You mentioned that the Count Dante followers “didn’t know what they were getting into.” That’s my main point here. When people learn unrealisitc principles and are told they are say a real 4th. degree black belt they may get into a bad situation and get clobbered. I only personally know of two- one a Kenpo guy and one a Tae Kwan Do black belt. The Kenpo guy got rattled a bit, the TKD guy went to the ICU for 2 weeks. I feel that there is so uch irresponsible teaching going on and it should be addressed.
    As to why the AK people do not speak up it is because after EP died there was a massive scramble for power. Ed never named a successor so they all started using a successful Parker concept- I’ll have my friends promote me to 10th.
    As to dangerous teaching, I just saw a photograph from a piece done a few years ago with a photo of Ed Jr. He was being attacked by a tonfa being swung like a club. He used an outward forearm block to stop a club- as dumb as it gets. That type of garbage teaching gets people hurt

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  177. Mr. Libby,
    You are right on with your insight on Kenpo.
    I must say that I agree with you on many things.
    My main concern is the brow beating on Parker.
    Everyone here has to understand that the man has family that is still living and the commentary here could be very hurtful.
    I detest lazy MA who hold high rank and don’t train as much as you do.
    I also agree that Kenpo is extremely overrated as a self defense system and fight in style.
    May I also add that going back as far as 1995 UFC the few Kenpo guys that have fought MMA have been humiliated.
    So, there’s no arguing with what you have said.
    Is there anything good that you remember Parker doing?
    Did he ever offer to teach someone with no money for free?
    Did Parker ever donate to charity?
    Or, was Ed Parker simply rotten to the core?
    BTW, he gave Presley a Black Belt.
    Was it earned and was Elvis decent?
    There’s quite a bit of interesting stuff here that should be put out there.

  178. Dear Mr. Putnam, as to Elvis, no, he was a joke, but I met him twice and a really nice guy. And he was very charismatic, and he gave millions to charity. Ed was hard to figure. I truly believe he was nothing but a con artist. One must look at his wearing a black belt that was questionable at best. And being promoted from 1st. to 5th. and then 5th. to 10th. by his pals is too weird and whorish for me. I feel that Ed only cared for Ed. I realize that this could be hard for his family, but I see little difference. Kenpo just has too many cult elements to it. And I am not the only person he screwed.
    But what is so perplexing is why he went after me over some bizarre story from a green belt who had not trained in years. We arrived at the Santa Monica school one morning and there was yellow tape from the IRS and I was like “what the hell?” So I couldn’t open the doors. Back then Ed had Santa Monica, Long Beach, Pasadena, ahd Crenshaw. Once the smoke cleared we all got together and pooled money. We took out all the mats, cleaned everything, got paint and compressors and repainted all the schools. Once we got rolling again I was running the Santa Monica school. We were rebuilding but had proboems. George Waite came to me more than once and explained there wasn’t enough to pay instructors like Sam Estrada, so I told George “pay them and you can owe mel”. I always took my students and indtructors first. So why would Ed attack me? When I left Ed and I shook hands and we parted as friends, and he assured me he woukd get me my 3rd. degree certificate. There were no problems. So why didn’t Ed just call me? Instead he threatened students; very low class behavior.
    My goal here us to help martial artists to realize how to be more effective, not to damage people. But it has gotten rather angry and distrorted. But the angriest ones are either brainwashed or have money or prestige to lose. Or they could be revealed as con srtists.
    In closing, the only reference I have to Ed being kind or generous was with Mike Pici. I have never net Mike.

  179. saw your video,,, it sucked,, only five ways to punch or handle a punch,, you totally ignore grafting kenpo tech for the street which any purple belt knows…

    • So you want me to use id iotic ideas that are proven not to work? Where are the Kenpo guys in MMA? Either choked out, tapped out, or knocked out. Why don’t you go starch your gi and slap yourself for awhile. When you’re ready to do REAL MARTIAL ARTS WITH REAL MARTIAL ARTISTS prepare to get humiliated. So which poser do you train with?

    • Yeah, and I just saw a KEnpo 5th. degree doing a “reverse tigers mouth” for a knife defense. Man, you are dunber than my Rottweiler. All yhese big terms you throw around are mere bullshit compiled by a fraud.

  180. Mr. Libby,
    I was checking around the net and two of the people you mentioned with respect Vic Lo Roux and Chuck Sullivan have a study at home kenpo program based on their own version.
    It says it’s a leam version of AK with fewer workable techniques that they claim makes their which they call IKCA more street suited.
    Are you familiar with it and is what they offer better for self defense than the other stuff?
    It looked interesting because they only have like 50 total techniques.
    I’d be interested in your opinion.
    Thanks.

    • Dear Mr. Putnam, could you give me a little more background; for example, age, height, weight, any disabilities or injury issues, and city. Then I can better help you. Also, what do you hope to accomplish? I may know a qualified instructor in your area. And DVD training can be very risky.

    • I knew Vic La Roux. He was a dedicated Ed Parker student and friend.

  181. I just have very little faith in Kenpo techniques. They also have very weak defenses and are easy to nail with hooks. They fight in that stupid side horse, use a slow and ineffective blocking system, and have no ground game. They also do not use a hook. I would recommend Paul Vunak or Matt Thornton. Larry Hartsell has a great book called “Entering, to trapping, to grappling.”
    a basic boxing book is good to, but modern boxing not fr8m say 100 years ago.
    As to Vic and Chuck, they are great guys, but I cannot agree with their 8verall guiding Kenpo philosophy.

  182. This is so funny Mr. Libby, everyone who trains Taekwon Do sucks, trains Kenpo sucks. Paul Vunak does very good JKD. Who were his opponents? Are you looking for the best Streetfighter? I met a lot of those great names, Ed Parker, Ed Downey, Steven Labounty, Bob White and a lot of other great fighters from other Systems. MMA has a lot of great fighters! Sure, why the Gracies didn’t fight against Emin Boztepe? Only bad talking makes no sense! Your Video is ok, nothing new.

    • The fight between the Gracie and Boztepe didn’t happen because Boztepe had no provable fights. Boztepe claims 300-0, doubtful. They offered him an opportunity at the Gracie’s Torrance, CA school. So saying the Gracies would not fight Boztepe is not accurate.

  183. Actually most TKD people do suck, and Vunak does a lot more than JKD, he is a great boxer and weapons guy. And virtuaaly every person you mentioned is a tournament fighter. And I have never seen a v7deo like mine that shows the weaknesses. I also feel I have given positive direction to several people. A jajor reason for this is that I have dec7ded to debunk Kenpo methods 8f hitt7ng- can you say broken hand, busted wrist, and dislocated ligaments. And their knife defenses are flat out dangerous and stupid. Should people learn what is valid or hyped up crap? Virtually all the MA punching and kicking systems are outdated, waste too much time onuseless katas, and lack sound concepts. So please look at the Kenpo “lance” techniques, then judge whether or not what I am doing is valid. I do respect your input and thank you for your reply

  184. Here’s the deal everyone.
    I studied boxing with a three time Olympic level fighter.
    Spent six hard months learning the techniques.
    I then took Tang Soo Do for three months just to pick up some kicks.
    Now all I do is cross train working two days boxing and kicking,
    one day power lifting, and one day where I go to the local PAL just to spar a few rounds.
    I have friends who have black belts in kenpo, japanese karate, and Taekwon Do.
    I have sparred them and with my limited knowledge of Martial Arts have ko’d both on several occasions.
    Now, don’t get me wrong a few times they have landed some good shots that hurt but none of them could handle my punch combos or when I mulled them, pushed them around and started to dig body shots to the ribs.
    Been in a few altercations did I could not talk myself out of.
    My personal workouts and simple training served me well each and every time.
    Four punch boxing combinations, front, side, back kick, parrying, slipping that’s it.
    Some form of strength workout is important for defense too.
    My kenpo friend is outstanding with his stuff, and he’s used it on the street.
    But for all his years of practice he had trouble handling me.
    Simple things work best.

  185. Spot on. Seems like a good training method. In my next three videos I have decided to do “why Karate can destroy your hands, one on boxing ideas, and one on how horrifically stupid Kenpo knife techniques are, they can almost guarantee a serious injury or death. Only maniacs or criminals come st you with knives.

  186. Hey guy!
    It’s been awhile.
    See some interesting posts and glad to read that Mr. Libby is getting his due respect here.
    I also see that the “tough talkers” that were bad mouthing me have decided to “tap out” and call it a day, great!
    We are all better served by reading and digesting some if not all of what Robert Libby is trying to relay to those interested in real training.
    BTW, I saw his video and it looked pretty darn good to me.
    Let me get back to the beach(Boca Raton).

    • Dear Monfongo, thanks again for the support. In a day or two I will get to knives. So many MA people are just clueless as to what to do with a knife.
      Also, to everybody out there, before you judge me take a look at the world I live in, so please watch the following on Youtube:
      man uses Muay Thai on girlfriend
      Thai taxi driver kills American with sword
      Thai man dances after killing two people
      I have had about 25 fights here just about stopping Thai men from beating women, and I mean knees on the chest punching them in the face. During one incident at a club/restaurant a guy had a girl pinned on a table. As he started hitting her in the face every man there turned, picked up their drink, and acted like it was “dinner and a show.” So when I grabbed the guy EVERY MAN there stood up and said “you never touch a Thai man FOREIGNER.” What should I have done? So before a punk like Steve Shaffer judges me, please look at the vidoes.. I do not start fights. Other fights have been over hurting my dogs, trying to rob me, and offending my daughters, and I will always protect my family

    • Steve Shaffer

      In Defense of Ed Parker, Founder of American Kenpo Karate
      By Steve Shaffer,
      4th Degree Black Belt,
      American Kenpo Karate

      It seems odd and sad really that at the 25th year of the passing of Ed Parker, there’s a need to defend the reputation and accomplishments of this great martial artist. However, when history is forgotten, and rewritten, it’s important to remind a new generation of what came before so that they appreciate the legacy of Ed Parker to the martial art history of the United States.
      Contrary to the accusations leveled at the start of this anti Ed Parker blog, the following documentation is presented to readers curious about who Ed Parker was and not accept these attacks at face value. I submit that Ed Parker was not a liar, he did earn his black belt, paid his bills, and stands alone as the pioneer of kenpo in America of a fighting system that remains a unique and challenging martial art with practitioners all over the world.
      In April 1991, Black Belt magazine published a memorial article on Ed Parker and his history with his photo on the cover. The article was written by Lee Wedlake, and is relayed to the readers again on the chance you don’t have the issue. pg. 21; Wedlake wrote – Parker was 18 when he told his future wife Leilani that he envisioned taking karate around the world.

      He was already a black belt, see Leilani Parker, Memories of Ed Parker, 1997.
      “It has a copy of her husbands’ black belt certificate in it, and that is significant
      since detractors have claimed posthumously that he never had one.”

      and a senior in high school when they met in 1949. She says he trained constantly, seven days a week.
      Wedlake continues–Parker’s study of kenpo was interrupted in 1949 when he left Hawaii to attend Brigham Young University in Provo, UT. He graduated in 1956 in Sociology and minored in Psychology. His schooling was interrupted by the Korean War. Parker enlisted in the Coast Guard and was stationed, oddly enough, in Hawaii for most of his hitch from 1951 to 1954, when he was discharged. He continued his study with William Chow during his service.
      Parker returned to Hawaii in September of 1959 intending to bring William Chow back with him to implement the school expansion plans they had discussed while Parker was in the service. Chow declined, however, and the young instructor would go it alone. (pg. 21)
      Contrary to the accusations at the outset of this blog, Parker was never told to “take a hike” by Professor Chow; his training and association was one of respect. Parker wrote in Infinite Insights Vol 1, pg. 24; “I treasured the time I spent with him and the revelations I obtained from our conversations and workouts. As I look back, I cannot thank him enough for setting me on a path of logical and realistic thinking.”

      John Bishop was a frequent contributor of articles and was the Orange County investigator for the District Attorney’s Office. His article on the history of William K.S. Chow published in Inside Karate, Jan 1990; confirms that Parker innovated and added to his basic understanding. On pg. 29, Bishop wrote, “Over the years, he (Ed Parker) altered and added to Chinese Kenpo until he made a system of his own; this system he called American Kenpo Karate. To this day Parker is still innovating and adding to his kenpo system. His system may be the most widely practiced form of kenpo.”
      On pg. 28 of the same article on Chow, Bishop also has a kenpo lineage illustrated. From Ed Parker you have Ralph Castro founder of Shaolin Kenpo, Joe Dimmick (Sam-Pai Kenpo); Steve Sanders (founder of the BKF); Jim & Al Tracy (Tracy Kenpo); Tino Tuilosega founder of Lima Lama, and David German, founder of T.A.I. Karate. All of whom have their own take on Kenpo and if you wish designate them 10th degree Black Belts. If you think about it, is a ceremonial title that means they are the acknowledged heads of their system.
      In fact, a historical photo published in Inside Kung Fu, 8/1992, pg. 38 shows a group photo of William K.S. Chow and his students over 42 years ago (at the time the photo was published in 1992). Across Chow’s karate jacket typed in the old typewriter style was Chow’s rank 10th Dan, Red/Black. Chow was the acknowledged leader of kenpo.
      Martial Art historian Bruce A. Haines with no axe to grind for kenpo, wrote in his book in 1968, Karate’s History and Traditions on page 38, wrote; “The first documented commercial karate school did not come from a former serviceman. Ed Parker of the Hawaiian Islands appears to have founded, in 1954, what is most likely the first commercially successful karate school in the United States. This took place in Provo, Utah while Parker was obtaining his degree in socioology at Brigham Young University.
      This approach to rank for leaders is nothing new. In Okinawan circles, a man named Tatsuo Shimabuku blended Goju-Ryu and Shorin-Ryu and founded Isshin-Ryu in the 1930’s after studying with Miyagi and Motobu. No one disputes Shimabuku’s rank, he is the acknowledged master of Isshhin-Ryu and 10th Dan in the system. Through Shimabuku, his American lineage includes Don Nagle, Steve Armstrong, Harold Long and others who went onto train still others, and the knowledge is passed down. The same with American Kenpo.
      As to Ed Parker’s skills, good insight is available from an article in Inside Kung Fu, 3/1980 featuring author Joe Hyams who wrote Zen in the Martial Arts; on page 33 of the article Hyams is quoted, “although a big man, Parker’s moves were elegant, precise, incredibly fast and controlled. He had tremendous power. His philosophy then as now was, ‘To hear is to doubt, to see is to be deceived, to feel is to believe.’ He tapped me once or twice lightly, but I was aware that the same blow with full power would be devastating.”

      Long Beach Internationals karate tournament which began in 1964; lasted 35 years. It concluded it’s run in 1999, (Black Belt, 8/2001; “The State of Kenpo a Decade after Ed Parker, by Lee Wedlake, Jr.) If Ed Parker wasn’t paying the arena venue fee, how did it last so long?

      Ed Parker was in fact, a fighter. As attested to by Bill Ryusaki, not a full time kenpo ‘crony’ as some have described Parker students. In the magazine, Karate Illustrated, 10/1976, the article on Bill Ryusaki, Bill met Parker in the parking lot of a local drive-in restaurant. “So then I go to this drive-in and I actually saw him really take care of himself. He was literally piling these guys up and man, I just really got impressed with this guy.”
      As if we need more confirmation, here’s yet another description of Ed Parker by Holzer:
      Inside Kung Fu, 9/1984; pg 51; article by James William Holzer, “Ed Parker: The Streetfighter from Honolulu”
      Parker and Chow were both essentially street fighters who realized that many of the existing kenpo techniques would not work in the street. Parker and Chow desired to Americanize kenpo and bring it to the continental United States…graduating from BYU with a BS degree in sociology…his studies interrupted by a stint in the Coast Guard, receiving his Black Belt from Chow, his only instructor, Parker began his first school in Pasadena, California in 1956.
      Inside Karate, June 1997 pg. 25 Interview with Leilani Parker, the wife of Ed Parker, (Interviewer) “A lot has been said about the Parker system. Everyone wants to be an expert on how it was created. What’s the real story?” (Mrs. Parker): “Everyone makes it more complicated than it really is. He studied under Professor William Chow in Hawaii and learned his base system. After he came to the mainland he developed his own, very comprehensive system, over years of trial and error.”
      As for Paul Vunak, while not a fan of kenpo, and even uses kenpo as an excuse for what not to do, said this in Martial Arts & Combat Sports, 8/2000; article by Paul Vunak, pg. 39; “It is obvious that Bruce Lee and Dan Insosanto were the pioneers of modern martial arts. They understood then, what the world is seeing now – no one art, theology, or philosophy has it all. We can truly see that today’s martial artists are harvesting knowledge from seeds that were planted by Bruce Lee and Dan Inosanto.
      Both individuals, Bruce Lee and Dan Inosanto were influenced in some way either directly trained with Ed Parker or exchanged ideas (Bruce Lee even stayed at Parkers house briefly & sparred Mike Pick– a kenpo student of Ed Parker, Lee lost)
      Indeed, here’s a quote that Dan Inosanto said about Ed Parker from Inside Kung-Fu, Jan, 1981 pg. 26 “…Ed Parker awarded Dan Inosanto with his black belt in kenpo, Danny had come to Parker as a kicking specialist and had worked hard to round out his technique with kenpo hands. That is, until Ed Parker tried to interest him in Kali. “Have you ever seen the art of Escrima, Dan?” Dan looked at the floor. “You mean stick fighting?” he replied, without enthusiasm. “No, Danny there’s more. A lot more.” Parker raised his finger. “You shouldn’t be afraid to look at other arts. It’s always good to add variety to your technique.”
      Even Steve Muhammad, a man Robert Libby respects, was a Parker Black Belt, and this was said of Ed Parker by Mr. Muhammad, Martial Arts & Combat Sports, 7/2002; pg. 36, article by Steve Muhammad; “Master Parker introduced a concept of angles and geometric patterns of movement in kenpo that the BKF expanded upon.” I met Mr. Muhammad, at yet another kenpo seminar and found him to be very informative and open to all us Kenpo cultists.
      Here’s what the late great JT Will said about Ed Parker; from Inside Kung Fu; 6/1980, p. 34 “Ed Parker is the most revered instructor in the history of American Karate. Parker examined Professor Chow’s Kenpo with the eyes of a boxer, and experience of a street fighter. He introduced concepts and principles, still not practiced by other systems.”
      This is what Ed Parker has said about kenpo:
      Karate & Kung Fu Illustrated, 9/1986; article on Ed Parker’s Kenpo Karate, pg. 25 by Loren Franck, “So when I stared to talk with William Chow and listened to what he did to intermix innovations to cope with the type of fighting we find in our environment; that’s what really led me on to develop thoughts, principles, and ideas of my own.”
      Ed Parker on Kenpo from Black Belt, 2/1975, pg 19 “You’ve got to know how to vary things. A lot of the techniques I’ve worked with, they’re ideas, they’re not rules. At any given time, any of my moves can change from defense to offense, offense to defense.”

      Karate Illustrated, 9/1976 Ed Parker on Kenpo, “While it is true that we should adapt a martial art to suit us individually—and we learn to express ourselves freely and blend with the situations as they occur—a firm basis is still needed to learn from.”
      Black Belt, 7/1979 Kenpo Cover Story (Ed Parker on cover), Parker pg. 23—“The secret of the martial arts is not to have knowledge of twenty four things as it is to know four things.” It’s more important to know to learn four moves and the twenty-four was in which you can rearrange them.”

      Lastly, when Black Belt magazine published its premier issue in Vol 1 #1, 1961, Ed Parker was featured and had been teaching kenpo for professionally since 1956. In 1961, Robert Libby was 9 years old.

  187. Narcissim Rears Its Ugly Head

    This guy is probably one of those idiots who thinks Rhonda Rousey can beat a man.

    Even Rorion Gracie says UFC is fake it is no longer based on an arts strategies it is based on who does a technique better,basically the better athlete wins it has nothing to do with real fighting or martial arts.

    Go email him about it he will set you straight.

    Tj Dillashaw is the champ and he is a KARATE point fighter and used the supposed ineffective preemptive strike point fighters develop to throw off Barao and intercepted him.

    \When questioned if Karate was effective TJ said HELL YEAH!!

    A fight gives you an adrenaline dump most TMAs do not teach their students to perform when it happens,that is why they are not as effective as someone who does Boxing,Wrestling or hell even football teaches you to deal with the adrenal dump. So a TMA school that teaches student to handle the adrenal dump I would not try to test them your narcissism will get you hurt.

    Paul Vunak is a fraud who when presented at a seminar with a real punch had the guy “removed” from the seminar because people saw him as a fraud who could not punch and started given this guy all the attention and Paul being a narcissist(there are alot you in this MA world) showed his petty side.

    • I just spent 2 hours looking at Rorion Gracie quotes. Just 7 months ago he talked about how great UFC is and how hard Royce trained to get ready for it. I also can find no such remark by TJ Dillashaw, so send me an address, but I bet you CAN’T. Do you use the same guy as Mills forPR? If you think Vunak is a fraud go take him on, he’ll roll with you

    • my buddy just got off another computer and cannot find one reference to TJ Dillashaw even doing Karate-he went from high school wrestling, to Cal State Fulkerton on a wrestling scholarship, did Greco-Roman, did MEC and spent time in Russia, not one word about Karate of any type. What style, with who, and what point tournaments? Why isn’t there one single reference in his bio, in Sherdog, in Wikipedia, or any other source?

    • Go to http://www.tjdillashaw.com, his own site. It says he was inspired to wrestle by his father; not one single word about Karate. All sites refer to him as a WRESTLER- you are such a pathetic little weasel who has to invent lies. Did you ever hear of Google? You can find anything in seconds

    • Where are some more comments? Once proven a liar people just do not post anymore. Also, MEC is a system that relies on wrestling, Muay Thai, boxing, and BJJ. Dillashaw NEVER DID KARATE!!! You lied, so like a real man would apologize. And if I am wr8ng I will apologize, that is what men do. How are your Legos?

  188. Contact Vunak directly and tell him.
    As for Rousey there are some guys she could best with her skill set.
    The only question is, would Rousey be able to handle a punch from a guy 125-135.
    There have been female vs. male fights before.
    Jackie Tonowanda a tough female boxer called the “female Ali” fought a Thai boxer in a mixed match and beat him easy.
    Beth Bussey a135 lb.karate fighter bit off more than she could chew when she fought 230 lb Joe Hess a point and full contact fighter.
    Poor Beth decided to go toe to toe and got starched.
    So, it’s possible.

    • Thank you Monfongo, and as usual for you a refreshing dose of reality. I have moved with Vunak, and he is for real. And notice this clown gives zero sources. I somehow doubt Ronda bribed people for her silver medal. I have yet to hear a Gracie knock 6FC.

  189. You are completely insane. Vunak is a lot of things, but a fraud is not one of them. I cannot find any such quote by Dillashaw. People that are jealous little dickheads like you love to post lies. They even posted a video “Paul Vunak loses to BJJ blue belt”, but the guy losing was not Paul Vunak. Desperate idiots always post really crazy lies. And yes, Ronda could beat a lot of men. So is her silvet medal in the Olympics fake too? Go play with your Legos and have mommy tuck you in when you get sleepy.

  190. GRACIE VS KIMURA
    youtube.com 3:28
    Check this out for my errant History

    I saw that you were still rambling. Decided to send people a real video of real Helio Gracie really getting beat by Kimura. Funny Chuck Liddell is a Hawaiian (Chinese) Kempo Practitioner, one of the winningest UFC guys of all time.

    His Instructor is good friends with Solomon Kaihewalu. Kaihewalu was Liddell’s instructor who calls Parker a friend and Brudda. But I won’t bother you with errant truths matter a man stuck in quicksand flails about until he is gone.

    I was just hoping to bring you out of your feud with a dead man. I am just sad, because when there are bigger things going on in the world you choose to fight this unwinable never ending battle with the dead you seem to hold a grudge against from many years ago. Thank you and I will say no more.

  191. Gee Eric that was once again ERRANT!!! Chuck Liddel DOES NOT USE KEMPO IN MMA! And I never said that a Gracie has never beaten. Chuck uses boxing, Muay Thai, BBJ with a great takedown defense.
    As to dead guys, you keep ignoring the fact that I CHOSE HIM OFF WHILE HE WAS ALIVE! And what can be gained is preventing real live people today from getting hurt by completely errant teaching. Kenpo knife defense, blocking tactics and methods, and striking methods can cause person serious injuries. They are untested theories and therefore dangerous. And just because Chuck Liddel hits a guy with a hammer fist while in the mount does not make it a Kempo based fight, nor him using Kempo in the ring. You just keep throwing in the same old or dead guys. So show me some real analysis or fight concepts. The problem is you do not know any. The next videos will be the errant strikes of many MA styles, classic mistakes most MA styles make, and really dangerous knife defense techniques. If you watch you could actually learn something.
    And the real driving force here is not my non-existent with Ed Parker, but rather MA beginners being made aware of some different methods, and how many McDojos and frauds are out there.

  192. Please look up a guy named Bart Vale. A Kenpo black belt that can fight. Why? Because he shows the weaknesses oF Ed Parker’s Kenpo. He fought MMA and was a bad ass. I am paraphrasing here, but he said Parker has all these guys following him, but Parker never had a fight in his life, so how can he teach people how to fight? He shows how the EPAK grab techniques are BULLSHIT. And if you watch him fight he uses boxing, muay thai, bjj, and wrestling, NO KENPO.
    I also see that people like Steve Shaffer, Mills, and narcissism no longer comment. Is that because they were shown through videos to be fools? Or that they made up idiotic stories? Or a combination of both.
    Bart Vale shows everything I am trying to do, to improve the street skills of people, and to stop following idiotic cult figures that are BULLSHIT.

    • Bart Vale response. Ok Robert Libby, I’m still here…
      I had the honor of meeting Bart Vale at a dare I say it? At a KENPO weekend seminar in South Florida hosted by Sean Kelley of Palm Bch. Bart Vale is a beast no question about it. He was polite and shared a number of entries and finishing moves to the attendees. As you have pointed out Bart Vale has a kenpo background, and it’s primarily the Tracy Kenpo lineage. But contrary to what you have written, if Kenpo sucked so much why did Bart Vale stick around to get his Black Belt under the Tracys? In fact, in Al Tracy’s newsletter in 1992 he talked up Bart in his 1st Quarter ’92 publication called “Tracy System Newsflash” If Bart was so pissed at Kenpo, why would Al Tracy devote any ink at all to promoting his Shoot Fighting fights and videos? Truth is, Al Tracy is proud of Bart Vale and his association with his Tracy Kenpo background.
      Another fact is there are several photos of Bart standing beside Ed Parker published in the martial art magazines. Again, why would Bart bother to waste his time being near Ed Parker if there was such a disdain for kenpo? In my mind Bart simply moved on to the full contact fight game, made lots of money, and now teaches others. It’s an evolution of fighting prowess.
      As for your constant criticism regarding strikes, if someone is using a hammerfist in the ring, you scream “That’s not Kenpo”, the same could be said of your hero Paul Vunak. If he uses a rising upper cut from the outside of an attackers extended arm, to break his elbow , (Cover photo of Inside Karate 5/91 by the way) I could easily say, “That’s not JKD”, Kenpo has that same move dude (called Reversing Mace). And yes kenpo has hammer fists too. Just because the sequence is not in line with a set curriculum of techniques, doesn’t disqualify the moves from being kenpo. A fight is a fight. I’ll do what I have to get the job done.
      Your videos seek to point out flaws in base movements. Here’s a brief kenpo refresher lesson for you. That’s the ideal phase. Your basic premise is how to improve the technique ideal phase as it’s presented to a student by immediately jumping to the what if. Of course there’s going to be instances where things go wrong. And yes, kenpo people (if they’re taught properly) dive into the what if phase as they progress in the system. Then they move on to the spontaneous phase as they advance. I suspect you already know this and are chuckling as you read this. (Pssst, the advanced techniques for the higher ranks are what if options, but don’t tell anyone) I’ll continue…
      Your video of Triggered Salute is a straw man argument. At any time if I need too, depending on the action of the attacker, can stop what I’m doing and flow into something else. I’m not bound by any 1-2-3-4 sequence of a technique. I could just as easily drive the pinned arm down, and strike the jaw with the inward elbow. I don’t need to go to the ribs at all. And I could stop, release the pinned arm, and kick the attacker, or knee him. You did a head butt. Congrats, you’ve just applied a kenpo principle of using your whole body as a weapon in a close range situation. Wait,… you keep saying you don’t do kenpo, my bad.
      In Parker’s book Infinite Insights, Vol 5. pg. 3, he writes, “Every student needs a strong basis of ideas founded upon realistic concepts and principles. Implanting various ideas in the form of situational techniques teaches a student to conceptualize these ideas as random references that can be activated spontaneously. However, the worth of these ideas is contingent upon the student’s ability to absorb, comprehend, express, alter, exchange, and apply them in combat.” This is the learning process, that everyone goes through using the model is crawl-walk-run. You want to skip crawling, and start running. I’m happy to help a student run, but basics are first. And yes punches originate from the feet, a good base is key to any punching sequence. I’ve trained in Shotokan and know that my punching power is dependent on being rooted to mother earth. Watch the punches of Mike Tyson on YouTube, Scary! But one could jump and leap and do a superman flying punch, very cool to see in the ring. So there’s always exceptions.
      The techniques are simply a starting point to help a student gain combat knowledge and grow in the skill of kenpo. I remind students all the time, that if something goes wrong adapt, find another answer, break away, do whatever, but don’t stop the action. This requires time, the willingness to learn and ultimately trains people to think, and not be robots stuck with a move that fails. I believe we’re on the same page here, the problem is instruction, not the technique. We as instructors need to know the options, we need to cross train and have a grasp of the what if phase.
      Your criticism of Clutching Feathers is valid only if I fail to move when I’m being grabbed. Even if I’m pulled down (the attacker is cancelling my height zone); I have options to help resolve the problem. I’d like to reverse this scenario and determine why I allowed the attacker to get close enough to grab what little hair I do have? Here’s a hint, it’s not about a hair grab! It’s just another line of attack that you’re being taught to consider. The handwork of Clutching Feathers, if you care to think about it, it’s nothing more than a Jab-Cross Combo from God Forbid,…boxing!!! If the attacker’s arm is lower at your chest the same move becomes Lone Kimono, if the arm is bent, (and we’re nearly kissing); he’s getting punched and kicked at the same time. (Conquering Shield)
      Again, I’m not bound by a set sequence of technique. I simply react to the situation. If needed, I can reverse the moves of Clutching Feathers to strike with the left palm heel as the first, then middle knuckle strike, I don’t even need to use the middle knuckle strike. I could even kick or knee. Or, if I’m being pulled over, change my strike to an uppercut hopefully before he hits me.
      Well, that’s my response, and I did it without insulting you, well, I did call you a dude, sorry.
      Your turn.

      • Please go to youtube and watch Bart Vale in “the roots of Chinese Kenpo vs American Kenpo.” In it Mr. Vale states that Ed Parker never fought, so how can he teach fighting? He also states that Ed Parker “took out a lot of the good stuff and watered it down.” I have never met Mr. Vale, but he sure seems to know what he is talking about. In a video he also shows 3 Kenpo grab techniques and shows how unrealistic they. So we have Bart Vale-shoot fighter, MMA fighter, and beat Ken Shamrock. Here he is saying that Ed Parker deals in theory, not reality, and that Ed never fought. But I am sure Steve Shaffer and others will find a way to rationalize what Mr. Vale has said.

  193. So why does Bart Vale in a vidoeo show 3 Kenpo grab techniques and keep saying this is theory , the Kenpo way, and this is reality? Why does he say Parker has all these guys following him, but he has nevrr had a fight, do he can’t teach fighting. Your anaoysis is so flawed on so many levels. And I never said Bart Vale was “pissed at Kenpo”, I merely stated that he showed the flaws. Joe Lewis also fought under the Tracy banner, but never did Kenpo.
    Your analysis on Vunak is idiotic. We attack arms a lot, but we never think they just magically straighten out. You have to work and set it up. I attack hands and arms all the time when I teach. And to say Clutching Feathers is a boxing combo shows how little you inow about fighting. All you do is throw terms around and always make idiotic analogies to ridiculous concepts. Reversing Mace is a silly technique, and the back knuckle to the ribs is meaningless. And when you do the techniq6e the person does a step through reverse punch and stands there while you beat him up-it is called “dead training.” Vunak calls it dissecting a corpse, but I call it mannequin fighting.
    You say crawl, walk, run. But the guy you do the technique on does not move, so there is no running going on.
    To sum it up, anybody who can compare Kenpo to real boxing ot JKD is truly an idiot. But do not believe me, watch and listen to what Bart Vale says, his words and actions refute everything you are saying.

  194. Your arguments mixed with fact fiction. As to your arguments how you just flow from one bad technique to another are pure fantast, and your analysis of what I said about Triggered Salute is ridiculous.
    As to Bruce and Ed, just because Bruce stayed at his house does not mean he influenced him. As to Ed telling Dan Inosanto to look at other martial arts, that is completely accurate. And after looking Dan Inosanto left.
    As to the othrr articles and history, many of the writers were working off of established myths and lies.
    So please look at Bart Vale on the roots of Chinese Kenpo. He states Parker never had a fight and watered down Chinese Kenpo.
    So let’s say I come to your school, no malice or grudges, and I will grab you for real ans see how effective your techniques are? Let’s see if you can flow fron technique to technique. And I will neither kick nor punch. How about it tough guy?

    • Libby,
      I’ve finally figured you out. You’re right! Kenpo does suck, at least the way you do it. Your latest video on Clutching Feathers and knife ideas sprinkled with a little Obscure Claws showed me that you are totally missing the point of kenpo movement.
      Then, you amp up your moves on Garfield to show what you would really do, clean sharp strikes with a mixture of limb destruction–all designed to end the altercation, which is the point of kenpo!!! If you would apply your combat principles to the kenpo moves you’d have it. But instead you violate nearly all the rules of combat by sticking your left elbow out in a lame attempt at proving Clutching Feathers as a silly and flawed technique. No! drop your elbow and counter grab the attacker’s hand on your head which covers your face as you torque into the right middle knuckle strike before he pulls you down into his punch. There’s many possible variations, but that’s just one.
      Yes, I agree. The way you lamely attempted to do Clutching Feathers isn’t even close to boxing. There’s no settling, no turning of the shoulders, no momentum, nothing. So yes, you’re right, I apologize. I assumed you were doing Clutching Feathers my way which employs combat principles of torque, momentum, power, balance and timing. All of which are found in boxing. It’s just an extended lead, followed by a rear hand, very similar to a jab-cross combo but only if you move combatively.
      I was pleased with your strikes you turned on to show the way you fight. You showed you have power and a quickness that few at your age have. Pitty you have some weird disconnect with kenpo ideas. You gotta get some better instruction man. Lesson Two: The structured kenpo techniques with names such as Clutching Feathers, is a teaching tool to show a principle of fighting. The names are memory foot notes, but as one progresses, you let go of the structure and flow spontaneously based on the situation. You should have known this ages ago. Somehow you got into a rut, or missed out on a key lesson, but your kenpo sucks. However, you’re JKD is strong, Be strong in whatever happens. Throw the kenpo names out, at some point you should have graduated beyond ‘painting by the numbers’ but I guess not. Don’t box others into that world.
      Agreed! avoid hitting the back of the head with knuckles, I tend to use my forearm, when I circle my right arm over and through, all this move accomplishes is to bump the attacker’s head down as my left is rising up to create a whip lash effect which exposes the neck for the last handsword to the carotid artery. But not all of that may work, that’s OK, I have other options at my disposal. If I want to keep the shoulder/arm lock wrapped up, then I’m free to do so, or just wrench it out of the socket if need be. Fight over.
      You bring up flawed training of kenpoists who like to rip through moves, while their partner stands there. HUK Planas called it the ‘stone statue’ syndrome. He taught against that and encouraged realistic reactions to hits by partners to me over 22 years ago man, and if they don’t move, move them yourself.
      The knife section is spot on. Distance is your friend, throw the wallet in one direction while you take the other. If you can’t run, and there’s an attack, the rule I teach is divert and seize the weapon. Hopefully the strikes and limb destructions cause the weapon to drop, then you’re back to empty hand fighting. Personally, for me the attacker may lose an eye, I’ll go nuclear with a spear hand and hopefully get that in to stop the attack.
      You should have stuck it out with Mr. Parker, you were on the cusp of greatness. His kenpo evolved and is still evolving, yet you have this jaded view that techniques are somehow written in stone that can never have any other application. In all my magazine collections, i don’t recall there ever being a letter to the editor or article anywhere from you exposing Ed Parker as a fraud, or dissecting his kenpo, nothing. Why now?
      As to your video — I’ll give it a C- nice try, but it did have good advice on knives and how dangerous they can be. Oh and those sharp moves on what to do after knocking away the knife: They’re partially found in Defying The Storm, and Delayed Sword both of which are found in the standard kenpo curriculum. Arggghhh! your head’s gotta be exploding man.

  195. Okay Steve now I know you are insane. In all your stories by pseudo martial artists like Hyams, you state that Bruce Lee was a Kenpo student of Ed Parker’s, sparred with him and LOST! BULLSHIT. Whoever made up that horseshit is a liar. Joe Lewis sparred with Bruce Lee and could not touch him. You are NUTS!
    So how about I stop by? I will even take my meds. I will video tape it, I will put grabs on you, and I will not knee, punch, kick, elbow, bite, or headbutt. I will just resist.
    To show you how nuts Kenpo people are a guy from Charm City Karate is fat mouthing because he may have beaten a 14 year old BJJ kid- what a stud.

  196. Mr. Libby,
    I wrote that it was Mike Pick that sparred Bruce Lee.

    • Roundtrip from Dallas to Tallahassee is $373 on Orbitz-put up or shut up. I am 63, I limp, I have had over 12 orthopaedic surgeries, was told by the team surgeon of the then LA Raiders I should be dead, and was called a “high functioning cripple.” And I can easiky defeat every grab technique you throw at me. So where are your balls? Let’s do this. You are younger, a 4th. degree EPAK black belt. Let’s see your stuff up close and personal.

  197. Still a lie. And a lie that Ed Parker grabbed Bruce’s foot while sparring and dumped Bruce 8n his back had also been told. So who beat Bruce, Ed, Mike Pick, or both?
    So why no comments on what Bart Vale said about Ed and demonstrated about theory vs reality?
    Just because clutching feathers has a 1-2 beat does not make it boxing. That shows how little you know about fighting. Your allegstion that you can merely flow from technique to techniwue is valid, if the opponent stands there like a mannequin.
    So let’s put the keyboard down- same offer, me against you. I’ll put on the grab and you do the technique. Then let’s see how well you flow from technique to technique. I’m in Dallas first week in April. Give me a date.

  198. About Ed Parker About Robert Libby
    1952 a student of William K.S. Chow and in the Coast Guard Robert Libby was Born
    1954 Teaching in Utah Libby still in diapers
    1955 Teaching Karate to Utah State Police Libby learns to walk
    1956 Opens Karate School in Pasadena Libby begins Kindergarten
    1960 Publishes 1st Book on Kenpo Karate “Law of the Fist” Libby in elementary School
    1961 Vol 1 #1 of Black Belt Magazine features Ed Parker Libby practices his alphabet
    1963 Publishes 2nd Book on Karate “Secrets of Chinese Karate” Libby celebrates his 11th Birthday
    1964 Establishes the Long Beach International Karate Tournament Libby learns to ride a bike
    and helps launches Bruce Lee’s career
    1966 Under Ed Parker Enterprises, sells training equipment Libby starts karate lessons
    1967 Ed Parker on TV “Lucy Show” does all the techniques and falls Libby promoted to Orange Belt
    1968 Ed Parker publishes Women’s Guide to Self Defense Libby promoted to Green Belt
    1975 Ed Parker publishes “Guide to Nunchaku” Libby is what…where? I dunno.
    1976 Ed Parker in Pink Panther movies
    1978 Ed Parker publishes “Inside Elvis” Libby hospitalized after altercation
    1982-87 Ed Parker Publishes Infinite Insights, Vol 1,2,3, 4,5 Libby become a bouncer in bars
    1988 Ed Parker honored with a massive tribute by friends and
    other notable martial artists Libby moves to Thailand is knifed,
    beat up, kicked, hospitalized, and
    becomes disabled and limps
    1990 Ed Parker dies doing what he loved Libby develops a profound bi-polar
    disorder, and must remain on meds.

    In April 1993 published an article comparing JKD to Ed Parker’s Kenpo. Free flowing approach vs. structured learning. The writer Chad Bailey looked the pros and cons of both approaches to self-defense training. He concluded that both paths have drawbacks, JKD lacking strong basics, and EPAK being closed minded to creative applications. But he also concluded that both paths allow the student to achieve spontaneous level of performance. The ultimate goal is spontaneous reaction and develop their ability to innovate and create within their art.
    In 1991, Inside Karate featured Paul Vunak on the cover, the photo shows Vunak uppercutting the partners straighten arm at the elbow (while grabbing/pulling). Libby claims incorrectly that this is not Reversing Mace, yet if you take the time to unpackage the technique, eliminate the dreaded back knuckle to the ribs and modify it to a arm grab, it’s really the same thing. It’s the same thing. In fact, in the second issue of Black Belt, Jan 1962, Ed Parker is again featured as the instructor of actor McDonald Carey. There’s a photo of Ed Parker, grabbing Mr. Carey’s arm at the wrist, with his other arm up in a claw, but on the outside of the arm, not from underneath; using a different line for the pin/break. Very similar to the Vunak photo 31 years later.
    The article continues with photos of a punching sequence, which is a little baffling ’cause I thought punches to the head were a bad idea, but if Vunak uses them, it must be OK, then photo 5 of the moves show Vunak in a cross step, which if I recall a few posts ago, Libby criticized as a terrible maneuver since he referred me and others to his Australian kung-fu blog friend that showed the flaws in cross overs, but there’s Libby’s hero Vunak actually doing cross overs.
    So the punching sequence is this: Fake low, to draw the attackers guard down, then a right jab face, followed by a cross, then a third punch with the right, and end with a left inward elbow. This timing is just like Five Swords in Kenpo. Instead of a defensive move, 5 swords becomes offensive, with jab, cross, and change the uppercut to another jab, step in and left elbow. Five swords is a pattern of movement, that at anytime, can be altered, moves deleted, timing changed and other moves added. Vunak is great, no doubt, but at what point, if one practices this series of strikes, does that not become a ingrained pattern of strikes much like what Libby lambastes practitioners of kenpo who practice the moves of kenpo sequences? To get good at anything, takes practice. Learning to move spontaneously means to think and adjust moves based on the situation and how the attacker responds to strikes. Hopefully, the fight is over quickly, and you get to go home, and the attacker is in the hospital.

  199. 1950s, Ed Parker rips off Jimmy Woo’s book and publishes it as his own. Ed Parker also dons a black belt that he most likely never earned. Ed Parker spreads a lie abot beating 5 sailors armed with clubs and knives in 7 seconds. Wanna keep going Steve? Ed Parker is a member of a religion that believes black people are descended from demons and cursed by God. One of Ed’s main religious figures, Brigham Young, stated that people live on the sun, and people live on the moon that are of relative height at 6 feet and dress like quakers- they have been seen with our telescopes. And that was long before Ed Parker was alive.
    Robert Libby, born 1952- 56 years experience, respected martial arts EXPERT, numerous street fights protecting the smaller, weaker, and females.
    Steve Shaffer- a poser that would wet his gi if he ever went up against some of the odds I have gone against. Like Ed “the poser” Parker, an unproven fighter with little if any skills about real fighting. A dummy that knows so little he thinks clutching feathers is a boxing technique
    Steve, if you want to try and say that I don’t know what I am talking about put up or shut up. I use crossovers, but sometimes they are a bad idea. You take one little martial move without any explanation as to how it got there or was set up and say I do not know what I am doing.
    But what’s really got your goat is that you’ve been called on your bullshit system and you are just an intellectual coward and a chickenshit

  200. One last thought before I go to sleep. I love how you present things, lots of meaningless history, and much of it lies. But you never answer the main question, instead you talk around it.
    So answer a really simple question- was my quote from Bart Vale write or wrong? Just like Mills’ allegations I proved them to be false. You will never take a direct question directly because the truth scares you.
    I also love, how like most fake martial artists, you always make references to the hospital or the morgue. Your fight knowledge, like your mentor, is nonexistent.

  201. 2 more comments- as to 5 swords it becomes “an ingrained pattern of movements” when they are done against A MOVING AGGRESSOR, NOT A MANNEQUIN.
    You referred to Ed’s book on the nunchakus. After Bruce Lee popularized them, nunchakus become a fad. The gang members were using them and in California carrying nunchakus was a felony; carrying a gun was a misdemeanor. So Ed saw a chance to make a buck. The schools carried their own Ed Parker nunchakus. ED WOULDN’T HAVE KNOWN A NUNCHAKU FROM A TENNIS RACKET! He merely jumped on the bandwagon, copied all sorts of nunchaku info, and presto, he’s a nunchaku expert. TYPICAL ED PARKER SCAM. He always stole from others and took the credit.
    Please show me one clip or still photo of Ed with nunchakus prior to Bruce using them.

  202. Bart Vale: “Kenpo is and always will be (I hope) a street defense system and not a sport. In the street people have guns, knives, clubs and whatever they can get their hands on. Every UFC fight has one thing in common that the street does not have…a referee! I trained with Mr. Parker, Mr. Parker was a black belt in Judo and he did not want to add Judo to his self defense. He loved the shoot fighting system and I wouls show him many of the techniques I was learning in Japan. And again it was an awesome sport.
    Then one day at an instructors camp I was able to do a front cross face, everyone in the class thought it was great. Then Mr. Parker showed us why we did not want to pull the opponent in to us. So Mr. Parker had me do the same move on him, and as I pull him in to me he pulled out a wooden knife and cut me inside the leg.
    And that is why I don’t do shoot fighting as a self defense, I do Chinese Kenpo for self defense.”
    He states in the video how some instructors have watered down the system to 56 techniques and that’s why he doesn’t like the American Kenpo. When Parker taught it there was still 154 techs. That is the same Kenpo he trains in. Lines of attack are different but the techs are still the same. There are still plenty of instructors that still teach the full curriculum.

  203. Okay, but I do not know where you are going or what your point is. Please put in “martial and cults.” I am not saying this in the Christian way, but in that martial arts, like many religions, can prove nothing. You people always dance around basic issues. You also forget the MONEY FACTOR. THERE IS A LOT OF MONEY ON THE TABLE, SO THEY DO NOT USE CRITICAL THINKING AS IT CAN HURT THE MONEY TRAIN. 90% of all kicking and punching martial arts are BULLSHIT. They have little if any real street application. And martial arts people lie constantly. For example one guy on this thread said tj dillishaw said “karate, hell yeah.” That seems to be a lie as neither me nor my friend can find one reference to him doing Karate. They claim Bill Ryusaki said “he (Pareker) was stacking up the bodies.” We have this group in LA called the POLICE, there would have been an investigation and reports, yet none exist. One of my female students was terr7fied 8f me. So I left and came back in as I forgot my car keys. She was alone w7th me and I asked her why she was afraid 8f me. She told me hos she “knew” I had killed a guy with a samurai sword. I started laughing and asked heh ” when is the last time you saw a guy in LA carrying a samurai sword?” But she believed it as it came from higher belts. They also told her I was a samurai. So I was a ca6casian Jewish samurai. Got the point?

  204. So why does Bart Vale have a piece on youtube about Chinese vs American Kenpo and refer to AK as watered down and Ed never had a fight? Perhaps later a Bart realized the truth.

  205. Some of u high ranked kenpo guys continue to argue with Robert Libby.
    Mr. Shaffer you were challenged but failed to respond.
    Most if not all of Bart Valle success in cage fights was due in part to size, strength, athleticism.
    He was, and still is a monster.
    He’s also an accomplished Martial Artist.
    Robert Libby knows what he’s talking about.
    Face the facts kenpoists.
    Ed Parker backed out of the Savage fight, just like he did when Robert called him out.
    It doesn’t detract from the work Parker did to promote AK.
    Is there any footage of Parker even sparring?
    Would love to see it.
    Kenpo is nice to see in the dojo, but depending on it for self defense could be a huge mistake.
    All u Parker followers find me video of him sparring.
    Dig it up so we can at least say he had good gym sparring skills.
    That will put some of us in our place once and for all!!

  206. Sorry Steve, but as my gi wasn’t popping and I was not making my own sound effects it probably did not impress. And the two techniques you mentioned do not have elbow to biceps destructions followed by an arm wrench.
    No, my head is not exploding because there are so many fine points ro real combat that Kenpo could never possibly understand as Kenpo people do not really fight. With your ridiculous ideas taken fron index cards and manuals that were written only to make money your brain is to crammed with pro forma bullshit.
    Monfongo just brought up a couple of good points, and thanks for the support Monfongo. I am showing videos made with a kid who knows nothing. Others wanted to do it but I said no. But you admitted my JJD looked strong. So where is one video of Ed Parker even looking like a competent green belt, and in the prime of life? On the dandjurdjevic.blogspot he looks atrocious at 32, snd wearing a black belt.
    Of all the EPAK people you mentioned not one video exists of them doing anything but forms, meaningless, and techniques on inanimate people, a waste of time, or non-contact light contact sparring, which instills bad habits.
    Other than Bart Vale, who I hear nothing but great things about, EPAK has zero champions in real combat. All I hear about are fabricatations by cult followers.
    So to the basic questions again- now when will you or other Parker people show a video of Ed looking good? I have shown videos. What about the questions I asked about comments made that Ed never fought? And where did Ed learn nunchakus well enough to write a book.
    You keep asserting that you can jusy instantly flow from technique to another as you do the motions so much, and that is pure crap and a key component of cult mindsets.
    So here we are again- Tallahasse, FL, me and you. I will put the grabs on. I will not kick, punch, bite, eye gouge, elbow, knee, or headbutt. Let’s see how well you flow from move to move! Let’s see how well you do with a real aggressor actually grabbing, resisting, moving, and not cooperating?
    Monfongo, maybe you could pop over and man the video part?
    Put up or shut up. I will sign any necessary waivers, and we will agree to no lawsuits. I am in Dallas first week in April, 4 hours away.

  207. I just read some more of this inane banter. Steve, I am just showing basic flaws, and you do not get the fact that on Clutching Feathers all the “settling” in the world MEANS NOTHING- NOBODY GRABS THE HAIR THAT WAY, STEPPING BACK DOES NOT STRAIGHTEN THE ARM!!!!! You cannot see the forest for the trees. You are debating step 4 or 5 when step 1 is BULLSHIT. Clutching Feathers will get you FUCKING KILLED!!!!! Like I showed in Obscure Claws, why do you release the arm crank and use a weak meaningless backfist to the body? BEcause somebody told you to.
    This will be my last response to you because like all cult members you just become borong.
    I want one post from you, and that is :yes or nor to first week or second week in April.”

    • Libby,
      As I said before, yes the way YOU do Clutching Feathers will get your face rearranged. For God’s sakes, drop your elbow as a cover man. If you don’t want to step back, then DON’T!!!, At a basic level, Clutching Feathers teaches, if someone grabs you, hit him! Your mechanics is demonstrating what you think is kenpo was so bad, it was a joke.
      No, I’m not going to Dallas, but you’re welcome to stop in and say hello to Rick Fowler, or Brian Duffy. Great guys with a strong background in…KENPO!
      Obscure Claws teaches, how to set a shoulder lock. Again, (I’m growing weary repeating myself) if you want to keep the attacker locked then keep him.. I’m not bound by what a tech says I should do for the sake of completing some pre-determined set of steps. The situation determines my response. If I do choose to release the arm lock I could slice through the ribs, but that’s not the main point, its’ the circling up and over to bump the attacker’s head down, while striking up, to create the opening for the finishing move of the hand sword to the throat. You also did not step forward which helps set the lock and keep him busy with pain. But you’re free to not step forward.
      You shoot off your mouth that I’m a cultist. No, I’m loyal to a system. I’ve also cross trained in BJJ (Gracies Charlotte 1995) boxing with Steve Shepard (at Kelley’s kenpo camp) been on the mat with Benny Urquidez (Las Vegas), which incidentally was a camp organized by Jeff Speakman. Great times.
      Any other questions you have on kenpo techniques? I’m happy to help you understand them better it’s clear from your so-called kenpo videos that you doing the moves totally wrong, void of any proper mechanics, power principles, basic fighting strategies, and common sense. I mean really? Keeping your elbow flared out into left field? You deserve to get your nose broken. Clutching Feathers is a beginning ORANGE belt technique design to teach a basic set of moves using 1-2-3 timing against a hair grab. In the ideal phase the attacker does stand still so you can practice your MECHANICS. Then you progress to a more dynamic level where the attacker is more aggressive, then you add what if scenarios. Then you move to a the fluid level of not even letting the attacker grab you. It’s called the learning process. I see that you know this with all your skills, ’cause I see that you move well within your JKD responses on Garfield. But why does your skills suddenly disappear when you do your so-called kenpo? Have you not learned anything? Turn those shoulders, pop that lead hand into the armpit better, bend your knees a little, be combative, and move effectively and don’t let the guy even grab you. That’s the running phase. Progressive action to beat an attack.
      Post some more of your poor kenpo I feel compelled to help you get better.

  208. Robert,
    If he accepts, I will be there.
    April works perfect for me.
    This Parker thing has created momentum.
    Tailor made for a movie script or book.
    What really got me PO’D was what they did to Milo.
    Making him wear a gi top, Parker getting Gene to take his place.
    What these Kenpo “talkers” don’t realize was that in retirement Milo helped quite a few Martial Artists hone their punching/boxing skills.
    In all my dealings with Milo not once did he ever bad mouth any Martial Artist or Art.
    Till the day he passed on he believed that he was “set up”.
    According to him, he didn’t want to wear a gi.
    Maybe the outcome would have been different, maybe not.
    Milo was past his prime when this took place but still had enough left to have done way better if he did not have to wear the gi.
    Then you have guys like Mills talking about Parker’s “backyard” boxing skills like that would have allowed him to stand with even a PAL novice.
    Unfortunately, most of the Kenpo community does not take criticism too well.
    And when taken to task, they disappear like that Squibb character, and others here who have and continue to bad mouth you for pointing what real street defense is all about.
    So far not one of these “talk posters” has “stepped up”.
    I have my doubts that Steve will either, but if he does I will be there.

    • Monfongo, to begin with I have to thank you for the support and respect. I must also thank you for your generous offer to cover my back. But as you predicted a 4th. degree Ed Parker black belt refuses to meet up with me. And even though I was willing to not use any striking techniques, he tried to pawn me off to Rick Fowler, who I have never had any contact with, or Brian Duffy who I have also never had any contact with. Steve Shaffer has truly shown that not only is he a coward and liar, but a man with zero honor. Who is he to throw me at either Mr. Fowler or Mr. Duffy? Did he ever even ask them?
      Also, where are any videos of Ed Parker? Everybody ragged me about vidoes. I produced them, but where are theirs of the “Honoluku streetfighter?” Probably safe with Mills Crenshaw and Ed Parker’s photoshopped black belt certificate.
      In the old days we would have always accepted a challenge. And in losing we would accept defeat and consider it as a learning experience, and in winning been gracious. But todays post 1970s breed of EPAK Kenpo pussies honor means nothing. In their sanutized McDojos where because they endure a slight contact from a hand or foot and think they are bad asses, or know tons of meaningless terminology and think they are masters, but fold like a graham cracker even at a severely limited challenge. A challenge where all odds have been put in their favor is too terrifying for them.
      But running their big mouths, insulting vastly superior martial artists, and avoiding basic questions with tons of meaningless jargon shows what warriors they are. That punks that have never had a real fight in their life or experienced true combat can show such ignorance and arrogance shows what pathetic martial artists the Parker lineage has produced.
      In closing Monfongo, thanks once again for the support and friendship. I hope we can stay in touch and meet some day. And one more thought- we just learned that our daughter placed in the top 10% in her nursing exams, so I guess holding of on the videos to help her with anatomy and physilology was worth it.

  209. Hey Steve give me a date. I do not know the two guys you mentioned. Is this like when Ed had Lelani call me to chicken out? I don’t want a substitute, but you. I will do the grabs for real. Then let’s see what a 4th. dan Kejpo MASTER named Eteve Shaffer can do. Let’s start with clutching feathers and see what you can do. You have just shown that all your talk is bullshit from a coward and poser named Steve Shaffer who just runs his mouth. PLEASE, show me how I do not know kenpo. PLEASE show me why I got a C- from a punk who knows nothing.
    Where are thr videos of Ed Parker looking GREAT? None exist except those where he looks like an inept douche bag.
    I am a 63 year-old cripple snd the best you can do is pass me off. God you are a worthless coward.

  210. Libby,
    You’re beginning to wear me out. You sound oh so high and mighty, while sprinkling in insults, trying to goad me, what are you, like 15 years old? Yep, your ways gotta be out of the old days, like old western shootout or something, who still challenges people? Give it a rest. Remember the kenpo creed? “…but should I be forced to defend myself…” I’m not doing anything except if I have too. Huge difference there sparky.
    You know what? I’m gonna post a counter video of how silly your Clutching Feathers is. For someone who supposed to have all this fighting knowledge and experience, your mechanics are lacking.
    Have a great weekend. Remember to take your meds.

  211. It is so hypocritical how the Ed Parker cult followers worship Ed’s “gunslinger attitude”, the “Honolulu streetfighter”, how Bil Ryusaki talks about “Ed “piling up the bodies” (which is a lie),but when I put all the odds in your favor to a real challenge, and you scream and bitch like a frightened little school girl that I “need “meds.” And as you said “what are you, 15?” At 15 I would have stepped up.
    Any video you do is meaningless as it is, as always, against an inanimate partner playing along with you. And the pseudo martial artist showing will be Steve Shaffer, a coward and punk who wouldn’t stand up for his pseudo martial art even with all the advantages being given to him.
    You have truly proven all my points as to low Kenpo standards are, to what punks the vast majority of EPAK black belts are, and ss to how little faith you have in your McDojo.

  212. Mr Libby,
    Please post a video were you are fighting.

  213. Jim, I am 63. I collect Social Security. Everybody bitched about me not posting videos, and when I did they still bitched, and lied. But if you would please explain what type of video you want? Do you want boxing, weapons, ground game, JKD, takedowns, or street tactics? I am able to do all the aforementioned. If you want me to say have an MMA fight with somebody that will not happen. I have suffered enough crippling injuries. As I previously stated, the team doctor for the then LA Raiders told me I was more fucked up than anybody on the Raiders. But if you have a specific request I will honor it.

  214. Jim, I believe you had made a rather snide remark towards to me. If you are looking for some form of proof as to what I claim refer to Joe Rogan. 4 time Massachusetts Tae Kwan Do champion, and as a lightweight defeated the midfle-weight and heavyweight champions to be the Grand Champion. He said, in regard to Tae Kwan Do, “I learned how to do something really stupid really well.” To answer your prior snide remark- yes TKD SUCKS. Almost all karate type and kung fu systems are crap. The best systems of the traditional systems are BJJ, judo, muay Thai, bando boxing, panantukan and pananjakman, and kali. Most systems like traditional karate are far too antiquated, and some aspects that they teach are irresponsible, in particular knife fighting. I have dealt with blades 4 times. I was cut once, stabbed once, and twice unscathed.
    But if you have a specific request I will try to honor it, and in doing so show far greater respect than you showed to me.

  215. Open hands guard, Karate style blocks, cross-over cross-outs, rebounding (self-slapping), unrealistic techniques, forms / sets, and “too deadly” to practice: A brief time in a MMA gym shows everyone who tries them how useless they are on a resisting opponent.

    American Kenpo is an academic exercise devoid of real applications. Mills Crenshaw’s belief that he can rip the eyes out of a grappler, break his neck with a chop, then open his femoral artery with a bite show how lack of practice in a resisting opponent lead to delusional thinking. See any of the “Gracie in Action” tapes. Link here goo.gl/oz9qzZ

    Parker’s Kenpo is like pro wrestling: It can look pretty cool with a partner who’s in on the act, but falls short if he won’t cooperate.

    Mr. Libby, your critiques are worth developing into a magazine article, not least because of your history running one of Parker’s schools. If Black Belt has the spine to print it, it would be great to show the techniques as they are written – say Clutching Feathers or Twin Kimono – then what will actually happen when a Kenpoist tries to use them in a real altercation.

    A more “professional” series of videos would be nice too, though I realize that would take a lot of time.

  216. former kenpo… another comment by a disgruntled player,, i ve used kenpo on th street,, was it the ideal phase?? no it was tailored,, but it did infact work and sent my attacker to the hospital.. im one of many who could and can attest to the street effectiveness of the art maybe you didnt learn hwo to talior to to the street,, dont blame the art

  217. Dear former kenpo, thanks for the support. One thing that I find so interesting from the Kenpo cult is that anybody who speaks against them needs “meds” or is “disgruntled.” Another person commented “seen this before.” The only meds I take are for arthritis, I have a great life and family, and I am telling the truth, unlike many on this thread. And I have never seen a video like mine.
    Your comments are quite valid, realistic, and encouraging. Your reference to Clutching Feathers is interesting as that is the first Kenpo technique Larry Hartsell exposed for me. He REALLY GRABBED my hair, and it really hurt; then he slammed me to the mats and mounted me (very eye-opening). He next did Grasp of Death for the side headlock. As I stepped over he showed me how dumb that was due to the fact that when you go for the double hammerfists you set yourself up to be thrown, and that the hammerfists have no effect.
    I am now seriously thinking about a more serious expose. The comments from so many of the EPAK followers have proven to me that what I am doing is quite important. All throughout Youtube I see such dangerous Kenpo arrogance, insane fighting concepts, and supposed “masters” that have never mastered any real fighting ideas. They are unproven commodities, so therefore have nothing to offer.
    In closing I must comment on Steve Shaffer’s “challenge” to my Clutching Feathers video. What he has basically said is “Okay Mr. Libby, I’ll show you. I’ll have somebody lay their hand on my hair, they’ll totally cooperate with me, I’ll beat them up while they stand there, put in an extra move or two, and that will prove everything I say and show Robert Libby knows nothing.” And this type of insanity that puts young students at risk is why I am more inspired to do more videos, and expose what a complete fraud EPAK is on the street.
    Thanks for the respect and support.

  218. After perusing this thread, I feel the need to clarify a particular aspect regarding Bob Libby challenging Ed Parker to a fight. About a year ago, Mill Crenshaw emailed me asking what recollections I had, if any, of Bob Libby’s claims to have called Ed Parker from my apartment and challenged him to a fight. After giving it some thought, I wrote back to Mill, giving him my honest answer that I simply didn’t recall that happening. At the time, Mills did not tell me that he was going to post my email in this forum. Had he done so, I would have conducted additional research. In any case, when I subsequently learned that my response was posted, and Bob Libby’s response, I made some additional inquiries. One of those inquiries was to my top black belt Steve Walton, who shared with me that he recalled my mentioning Bob Libby calling Ed Parker from my apartment and that Gary Brandolino was present. I have to take Steve at his word. Like me, he doesn’t have a dog in this fight. As an aside, I am still confused as to why I would have been party to this call, the reason being that my participation would have put me in the position of being an instigator. Under any circumstances, I can’t imagine Ed Parker being pleased that I had been party to a call of this nature. As such, perhaps I arranged the call (I don’t remember having Ed Parker’s home phone number, although I suppose it’s possible), thinking that Bob Libby might back down at the last minute, although clearly he did not. Anyway, the purpose of this post is to confirm that the call did take place, even though I still don’t personally remember it (I’ll take Steve Walton at his word. I have to believe that if Gary Brandolino were contacted, he would be a second confirmation). Second, I read somewhere in this thread that Gary Brandolino had commented that Ed Parker came to my wedding (to Linda Lee) and looked bad and could hardly walk because of his suffering from severe gout. For the record, Gary Brandolino was not present at my wedding, so if in fact he did say that, his statements are not firsthand. Moreover, although it is true that Ed Parker was dealing with gout at that time, he certainly did not look like “death warmed over,” and I have video to clearly show that he looked to be in good health. I hope this helps to clear us some of the misconceptions. Respectfully, Tom Bleecker

    • After reconsidering this email by supposedly Tom Bleecker who know says someone remembers him being at the infamous so called phantom phone call that Mr. Libby made, I have to believe that this is another made up email account from somebody in order to keep perpetuating this myth. And I wish people would get there stories straight. Mr. Parker said he dropped two people armed with bottles or knives and the other two got back in the car. Not that difficult of a feat, beating two drunk guys down – however Kenpo did it.

  219. WOW! Kevin, are you sure it wasn’t the morgue? Why is it that every time a martial arts person has a fight the other person always goes to the hospital or morgue?

    • It’s called forensics Mr. Libby. Tom doesn’t remember your call and says he wouldn’t have helped you. And conveniently, someone posting as Tom in a few emails later says that someone else told him that he was there so he says it must be true??? Of course no one can get in touch with that person. And how curious you never stated what the conversation was about. So you didn’t have Mr. Parker’s telephone number and you say his wife calls you back hours later? Were you in the habit of picking up Mr. Bleeker’s telephone when it rang at his place? How convenient you picked it up, and no one else did. You’ve been threatening everyone here and calling them cowards but you never give your address. I can see how everyone would think you were a nut. Are you in a mental hospital and they let you make your videos? Whose is really the coward Mr. Libby?

  220. I feel I need to Clarify something with Tom Bleecker. We all change as we get older. Perhaps he does not remember the call. But Steve Walton seems to be verifying Tom had referred to a call to Ed by me with Gary there. I would also like to apologize for my telling Tom to go fuck himself- not appropriate. But back in the day Tom was an instigator. Usually in just silly ways.

  221. Ok Mr. Libby, here’s a video response for your clutching feathers argument. Hopefully the concepts you missed oh so long ago will come to light. http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=YTMyqa9gv58

    • Hey Mike- same offer with you. How about it? Or will you hide behind the Leon County Sheriff? I will not punch or use any offensive strikes. I will merely grab you and then counter with grappling concepts. How about we give it a go? We will sign waivers and a letter of the conditions. No lawsuits, no games, and no bullshit. You know, like real men used to do it?

  222. That proved me wrong? That brought things to light? Are you nuts? No real hair grab was ever put on, there was no real resistance, Ed writing a book when I was 9 means nothing, and Larry saying he studied Kenpo also means nothing- I tell people I studied Kenpo. It still does not negate that Steve would not face me, and with me putting severe limits on me, I was flying to him at my expense, and he chickened out. He is just another cult follower. And he tried to pass me over to 2 other people. In tge old days we called that a coward. This proved nothing.

  223. Bob Libby, Thanks for taking the time to extend an apology. The truth is, as I mentioned, I just didn’t recall the conversation/event, and still don’t. At my age – I’ll turn 69 next month – I’m not as sharp as I used to be at recalling things. My biggest hurdle is I couldn’t fathom why I would place myself in the middle of your battle with Ed Parker. Anyway, it’s water under the bridge. You may recall that I was around before you, Scott Loring, Larry Hartsell, and others of that era. As an aside, I recently located Scott Loring and had a nice stroll with him down Memory Lane. I was also helpful in locating Paul Dalton, who has been missing from the Kenpo campus. In any event, all these years (now over 50), I’ve remained in Kenpo in one form or another, so I’ve been around – or at least as Mary Richards once said, “I’ve been close by.” To be honest, in reading this thread, you make some good points. I was around before “Big Red” and the naming of the techniques and such, and around that time I raised some of the same concerns that you have (I also wrote them in my book “Unsettled Matters: the Life and Death of Bruce Lee”). The difference between me and you is that I’ve tried to raise this issues respectfully and with tact (not something I was known for in my earlier years, if you recall). Anyway, I think your positions and concerns would be more easily entertained, and even some accepted, if you could find a way to put aside your animosity toward Ed Parker – place that in a separate box labeled “private” – and leave all that out of your dialogue. I don’t have any recollection of your feud with Ed, and I honestly don’t want to know. Surely you will agree that Kenpo has its good, even strong, points – and a great community of folks, many of which make for great, long-lasting friendships. I know that you know this, otherwise you wouldn’t have stayed around as long as you did. A wise kenpoist once said, “You will leave Kenpo long before Kenpo leaves you” (I paraphrase). Perhaps you might entertain a new approach. Everyone has something to offer. We all make mistakes, and many of us have been hotheaded and said things we wish we could take back and start over. Anyway, again, thanks for the apology. It takes a far bigger man to make an online apology than it takes to bark insults. As an aside, I had to go on Ancestry.com to find a high school photo of you at Beverly Hills High School in order to recall you. Yes, again, it’s the getting old part. I do recall your company back in the late 1970s when my then-wife Jennifer and I lived in Brentwood and where Gary Brandolino was a frequent visitor. The Bob Libby I recall back then was a decent guy who was fun to be around. Perhaps in many ways you’re still that same guy. Respectfully, Tom Bleecker

  224. to all concerned i watched steves video and itclearly showed that techs are ideas that can be altered or changed as in targets to fit the situation…steve was clearly showing that the pupose of clutching feathers is to show that if your hair is grabbed or some one attempts to grab ,,you dont just stand there.. you hit them.. he also showed how libby was clearly doing the ideal phase of the tech wrong in the postion of the arm thats grabbing the hand that grabs the hair…the point is,, one could post a 100 videos,,,, exposing him.. it wont do any good,, your dealing with the mindset of on whos hatred of Mr parker and the art is so great he wont listen,, no matter how hard you try to show him.. thats evident from all the post here,.. by continuing to dialog wit this disturbed individual,, all we are doing in feeding into his ego.. i for one.. will not post any more because thats exactly what libby wants,,, to put out a fire,, you must remove the air from it,, i suggest we remove ourselves and thus give him no more air…..god bless

    • Another point Kevin- did you also observe how Steve Shaffer refused to meet me despite me giving him every advantage? Did you notice how he folded like a coward? Once again I am dealing in facts and not theory and bullshit like you. I presented a challenge and he ran away like a typical Kenpo Koward. You are just a cult member and will tell any lie to justify your beliefs.

    • Yes, can be changed or altered on a person that does not move and even cooperates with you. And as more chime in I am getting more support- that must really frost you Kevin. A lot written agrees with me.

  225. Kevin, on this I must agree- “if your hair is grabbed” is not grabbing the hair. You are merely a delusional fool. showing me errant crap 100 times does not change the fact that it is errant crap.

  226. Dear Tom, that was some great advice. I am assuming by “big red” you mean Larry Tatum? So how is Scott Loring? I also hope you read the parts where I gave a list of Kenpo artists, though not all, that I respect and thought could fight in the street.
    I think you would agree with the fact that all martial arts have developed some disturbing cult like behaviors. I also feel that Kenpo in the 1960s was not Kenpo now.
    Once again, my apologies, thanks for the advice, and hope all is well with you and your famiky.

    • Bob, By “Big Red” I’m referring to the teaching manual that was introduced in the late 1960s and was a integral part of the national franchising venture. At that time, I was the head instructor of the SM school and taught the evening advanced class, and was also teaching privates during the day while attending college. Big Red included lesson plans and the various belt categories, and to be honest, I was not in favor of the change over – and told Ed that. The problem that you and others during that time encountered was that, if I may make an analogy, you had been trained in a Mike Tyson boxing gym environment and were suddenly required to train like Sugar Ray Leonard – to go from a brawler to a technician. Where earlier, street toughness and reality based techniques were the top priority, now suddenly learning vast amounts of material were taking precedence. You weren’t the only one who rebelled. Even though the franchising venture was short-lived, Big Red and all that new protocol remained in place. Admittedly, it has be difficult for a fair number to accept, especially if they were brought up in the “old school” as you and I were. That said, and to be fair, while Kenpo hasn’t had as many tough fighters, mainly due to the amount of time that is required to obtain belt promotions, it hasn’t been without great fighters (witness Frank Trejo as one of many examples), as well as exceptional martial artists who have gone on to win tournaments in forms and mass attack and become great teachers. I guess the bottom line, as is the case with any art, not all its practitioners will become deadly street fighters. As an aside, there are those who point out that there is much more to the martial arts than learning how to fight. Mike Pick often says that if all a student wants to do is learn how to fight, they don’t need to spend years learning Kenpo or any other art. All they need do is walk up to the toughest guy in their neighborhood and spit in their face. And keep doing that until, soon enough, they learn how to fight. It is also worth pointing out that martial arts is two words – one the martial, or warring aspect, and the other “arts” the art aspect. Most people excel in one or the other; few excel in both. Anyway, over the years, I’ve learned a great deal about what the martial arts means to me. Much of this has come from sharing with many of the greats, which I was fortunate to do when penning their biographies – several dozen in the two Kenpo “Journey” books, as well as the bios of Donnie Williams and, most recently, Benny “The Jet” Urquidez. One thing I have learned through my 50 plus years is that, by and large, normal, well adjusted people don’t take up the martial arts. People who come to the art and stay usually bring with them a degree of fear and dysfunction, some part of them early on was damaged in the shipping, so to speak. I surely brought my share with me. The good news is that we all have far more in common than we know, and it’s what we share in common that serve as the building blocks of our brotherhood. Ed Parker once pointed out in a class that no matter where we are in this world, if we find ourselves in trouble and in need of help, all we need do is pick up the yellow pages and call the nearest Kenpo school and help is on the way. Years later, I remember him posing this question to a class, “Imagine your phone rings and one of us tells you he’s in trouble, what are the first words out of your mouth?” A good minute later it was clear that no one had the answer (although several had good answers), which was, “Where are you?” To Ed, this was the most important, we don’t ask questions, we don’t judge, we don’t contemplate. If one of us is in trouble, we instantly “head out.” That’s the great brotherhood that I’ve enjoyed for many decades. Admittedly there have been years when I’ve been far less active than in my early days, but I’ve stayed connected, and hopefully, although not always, in a positive way. I hope that when my days are up and my belt retired for good that I can look back and know that I gave back to Kenpo a fair amount in return for all it has given me.

  227. Rainer Schulte

    Mr. Libby, you said that you managed the St. Monica School in the 70s for 2 years. Can you be more precise.
    about the years?

  228. Rainer, I remember you and your blue BMW 2002 (I think that was the model). I was about 21 so it would be from about 1973 to 1974, but I could be off a little bit. I remember you when you and Larry Hartsell took on a job painting a house, but I believe you two consumed more beer than you used paint. I was there right before Larry Tatum took over. So what is your point?

  229. Rainer Schulte

    you are right on the BMW and Larry and I painting a house, but please answer my question. just give me the month/year when you took over and when you left.

  230. Rainer, we are going back forty years, so I cannot give you a precise date. But I was going out as Larry Tatum was replacing me. So whenever Larry Tatum came in back up about 2 years. When I was there Rick Carthew and Sam Estrade were there. It was also when the IRS shut us down. I was there before that and after. George Waite was also there. I hope that helps.

  231. Rainer Schulte

    Looks like you are evading my question. I find it odd that you do not remember such an important time in your Journey. OK, different question: When did you start your Kenpo at the St.Monica School? When did you test for Black. 1st and 2nd. You remember George Waite being there. What was his job or was he just working out? Who was Jerry Leichtman?

    • One other point Rainer-whike running tge SM school I was also doing kickboxing with Leo Wang in Chinatown, so I was quite busy. Some times may get a little fuzzy. So when did you stop wearing lederhosen and wear pants? Whst was tge exact date and what color were tgey? Got the point? And that must have been an important day on your journey.

  232. Just memory lapse, and who are you to challenge me? I’ve seen your video in Germant-very laughable. But I’ll play along. Jerry Leichtman was a Jewish guy that was in real estate and propery management, and he smoked cigars. He was short and bald, and a great guy. His best friend was Bernie Bernheim. They were both on bomber crews during WW2. They spent time together in a German prison camp for American POWs. Jerry’s wife was latin I believe, but I forget her name. George Waite would have technically been my boss. But he never really taught. His girlfriend was named Micki Garcia and was a former Playmate. I started Kenpo in 1965. My black is from Paul Dalton, but Ed totally accepted it. Rainer, I lived at the Santa Monica school-Monday to Saturday and trained a lot harder than you ever did. So if you are trying to say I am lying you are nuts. I was the manager and head instructor, and Ed prmised me a 3rd. due to how well I ran the place and my skills. Alex Sensenbrenner was also there. He got into an argument and George Waite punched him in the face breaking his nose- he did it at one of the tables at the hamburger stand in front of the school. I was there when he did it. Alex sued George and it was thrown out if court. I believe George lived on Beverly Glen. Alex also seriously injured a female student while showing off-he kicked her in the face and seriously damaged her neck. I was just running over to stop him but was too late. George handled it and I was amazed she did not sue. Alex was a sort of a gopher for Ed and sometimes used Ed’s black Cadillsc that I believe was a present from Elvis.
    Any other stupid questions? Did I pass? Don’t challenge me. I find your question’s tone rude and insulting. You may have gotten drunk with Larty Hartsell but you are no Hartsell. Don’t play out of your league.

  233. Rainer Schulte

    never wore Lederhosen!! LOL. When and how did I challenge you? I never said you are lying. I tried to be civil not to “enrage” you just trying to fill in some dates for my own timeline.
    And yes I am shivering in my pants!!!!
    Now that I have all the answers I was looking for, I leave this Forum laughing
    On a side note: I have never known anyone to use the F word as often as you have, so I am not saying it.

  234. Interesting Memory Lane strolling. Much of it I recall, although not all of it. Bob, if you started your Kenpo in 1965 at the age of 13, then did you start in Danny’s Saturday class? I wasn’t around the school after the fall of 1969 when I left to make a film on location with Blake Edwards. I’m wondering if you’re confusing Ed’s 1960 gold Cadillac with John Walker’s black Cadillac of the same year? John was a first generation black belt who worked out at the SM school. Both were great cars. By the way, was the apartment you visited with Gary in a security building on Granville Avenue or a downstairs two-bedroom on Goshen Avenue? Jennifer (we married in 1975) and I lived in two Brentwood apartments, and Gary visited both. I have a feeling that the apartment you visited was the one on Goshen where I often had a weekend barbecue. When you trained with Paul Dalton, was that at the school over the auto repair shop near Bundy and Wilshire? I opened that school with Paul in 1969, I believe. If so, you may recall John Wilson. He drove a VW and used to stop by at night drunk and throw beer bottles from the stairway landing down onto Wilshire Blvd. He was big on crashing forearms. You may also have worked out with Mark Mitchell who got his black from Paul.

  235. Rainer Schulte

    Tom,
    where are we going with this? If anyone is comparing Lederhosen to Managing a Karate School should be “Baker Acted” (The Baker Act refers to a Florida statute that allows for an individual who is 18 years or older to be either voluntarily or involuntarily committed to a psychiatric facility, on a temporary basis, if he is deemed to be a threat to himself or to others) By the way Lederhosen are worn in Bavaria and that is not where I am from.
    .

  236. Seems Mr. Libby is finding some kindness out of Old Kenpo Friends after all. No condemnation just memory lane stuff…,

    “If your phone rings and someone from the group needs help. By all means help him.”

    • You see Eric, back in olden times I was respected. I find it interesting that the more the “old timers” chime in I am not such a liar. I will also tell you that it is really bothering me that I let this get to me to the point I insulted Tom Bleecker- and to my marrow. If I see him in April it is to apologize in person and like a man.
      If you were to talk to my wife and kids they would tell you how even tempered I am, and honest. The problem you fail to see is what MA has turned into- a fraud. I see LA riddled with McDojos and 10th degrees running around everywhere. People that call themselves “masters of self-defense” that have never defended themself. It truly has turned into a cult.

  237. I started in the evening classes back when David Laredo and Albert Cornejo were around. The Cadillac I am referring to was in the 70s and was a black Eldorado. The school was near Bundy upstairs. I believe the apartment was on Goshen. If it helps your wife was pregnant then. I worked with Mark Mitchell alot in the beginning, but then I took most classes as he was going to college. Yes, I definitely remember John Wilson. He looked like Rutger Hauer and a Jimmy Woo fanatic that LOVED SMASHING FOREARMS! Paul Dalton wasn’t around much as he was driving hig rig trucks. I then took the kids for awhile at Paul’s. Do you rrmrmber Mitch Spirt? Nice to reminisce.

  238. I talked with Albert this morning. He recently had a great reunion over the telephone with Scott Loring. I was also able to find Paul Dalton some time ago when the Kenpo Symposium was held in LA’s Chinatown. Not sure about the dates you’re posting. I was the head instructor at the SM school from 1965 through 1969, although for a while I managed Ed and Chuck Sullivan’s school down on Crenshaw Blvd. Albert recently gave me a DVD of a 8mm film that he shot when I was awarded by black belt in October 1965. I was the first brown belt and black belt at the SM school. Steve Sanders Muhammad made brown that night, as did Terry Arnell. Many old timers are seen in that 8mm film footage. My sense is that Albert and Dave were teaching much later than 1965. The apartment was Goshen because Jen was pregnant and had our daughter Kayti in June 1976. Eight months later Jennifer and I learned that Kayti had a hole in her heart (VSD), which was the main reason we moved to Carmel, to get her to fresh air until her open heart surgery could be done ten months later. Thankfully the surgery was a success and today remains in excellent health. As I recall, I think you moved to Chico with Gary sometime after that? Mark Mitchell eventually graduated chiropractic school and has maintained a practice on the east coast for decades, married Colleen Cookson and had a bunch of kids. John Wilson was indeed a strong disciple of Jimmy Woo, along with Bob Cook. The name Mitch Spirt isn’t familiar to me. But keep in mind that after 1969, I was training with Bruce Lee, whom I arranged to get an apartment at the Barrington Plaza where I was living, which made us neighbors. In the early 1970s I began writing for Bill Shatner and teaching him Kenpo; also did a film with Jim Coburn, who was one of Bruce’s students. Anyway, because of my work, I wasn’t around the SM school much. Earlier, I gave my share of the school above the auto shop to Paul, and I guess the school eventually closed. Maybe Mark Mitchell ran it for a while. Besides Mark, I recall Paul had another black belt, an older man, Charles something? Mederis? Some of this stuff feels like it happened yesterday, while some feels like it happened a hundred years ago, if at all. Well, this brings to mind a familiar quote of Dave Hebler’s, “Getting old ain’t for sissies.”

    Do you rrmrmber Mitch Spirt? Nice to reminisce.

    • That was Chuck McDerris, a great guy. I awarded him his black with Mark Mitchell. As to Dave Laredo and Albert, they were not teaching there, but studying there. I actually came in like December of 1965. Dave and Albert were green belts. Another guy there was Leo Monahan, a great technician, super smooth and precise. Glad your daughter came out okay. I have 1 son, 2 stepdaughters, and three grand kids.
      Actually the “growing old isn’t for sissies” was first popularized by Betty Davis, but a great line.
      Mark moved to Marblehead, MASS. He had 4 daughters. I talked to him when Coleen was pregnant with number 4 and asked him “do you want a boy” and he said “no, I want another girl.”
      So what did Scott wind up doing? You were all around 8 to 10 years older, but I seem to remember that Scott was at UCLA studying business. Man that guy could move. A heavyweight that moved like a lightweight and super flexible.
      Nice to kick around the old days. Is Paul still alive, he would be about 77 as he was born in 1938. Stay in touch.

      • Yes, Charles McDarris, that’s the guy, older. I see him on the Family Tree of Black Belts as having received his black belt (along with Mark Mitchell) from Paul Dalton. Strange that I don’t see Lex Sensenbrenner on the tree?? I know he made black and managed the school for a while when Ed was in financial trouble. In fact, when I competed in the 1987 Long Beach Internationals, he was one of the judges in my ring. Why he’s not listed on the tree is odd. Well, I’m sure there’s an answer. I’m still confused about Albert and Dave. I’ll have to ask Albert to refresh my memory. But in 1965 I don’t believe we had colored belts – just brown tips on the white belt, brown, and black. As I recall, colored belts came in with the franchising, which was much later. I also don’t remember kids being allowed into adult classes. Kids were allowed in Danny’s Saturday kids class that started around that time. When I started at the La Cienega school, I was 16 years of age – and the youngest in Kenpo – along with Jimmy Doughtery “Little Jimmy” in Pasadena, a senior of mine who made brown when I was a 3-tip white belt. I have hundreds of photos that were sent to me for the two Journey books. I’ll have to go back and see when colored belts came into the system. Chuck Sullivan would know. I remember Mark and Colleen moving to Andover. They used to bring their firstborn daughter Heather to my apartment on Granville. Earlier we lived together in a house in Studio City. Before that, Mark was going with a girl Holly Hoberg, who was the secretary at the SM school and later became attached with Larry Hartsell, if I recall. Scott has done very well financially, quite successful, and recently celebrated (43?) years of marriage, has kids and grandkids. Paul Dalton is still living and married to Carolyn.

  239. Rainer, my comment to lederhosen was only to show that people have different rituals that show they are older. We often remember those very vividly. As to another of your comments, do not be so dishonest as to say you were not challenging things I said.
    So why should I be Baker Acted for mentioning lederhosen? I never compared lederhosen to running a martial arts school, only to time. And you are wrong- it is technically called a 5150 and exists in every state in America. I have not threatehed anyhody in any way other than a challenge to show bad martial arts ideas. I have not threatened to hurt myself. Your analysis is ridiculous.

  240. Yo Kenpo bros and all “the others”!
    Why all this nonsense about who knew what, what works where, and was Edmund Parker tough or not?
    Does it make a difference?
    I am a self trained and self ranked Martial Artist.
    Been there and done that.
    My system Kenboki is a combo of basics from what I call “functional” kenpo moves, western boxing hands, and thai kicks(waist and down).
    I developed 5 forms made for self-defense.
    Now, everybody started someplace, right?
    So what if I gave myself master black?
    It’s my system.
    All the masters going back ages had to self rank at some point and time.
    Is what I do effective?
    It’s ALWAYS done me right when I needed it.
    All you have to stop the bickering and try to get along.
    The big braggarts ain’t gonna like this.
    Some of you, like this monfongo character have no respect for their elder martial artists.
    Learn some Mr. Monfongo.
    Libby is frustrated that he ain’t being taken seriously.
    You get more with articulate kindness Libby.
    The rest her stop day dreaming about the old days and what was or could have been.
    If ALL of you spent more time practicing instead of coming on here to gossip you would be better off.
    I ain’t no spring chicken myself.
    Going on 62 years young.
    Why?
    Cause I’m practicing my craft, my art daily instead of moaning and complaining.

    • Well, I’ll turn 69 years of age next month and I’m still working out and doing seminars, as well as writing books on the arts and the lives and careers of many of its icons and legends. That said, I’ve always enjoyed my martial arts brotherhood – and as time goes by, reminiscing, especially about those who have since passed and the good times we shared. I’ve said this many times, but if the only reason I’ve stayed in the martial arts for more than 50 years is to learn and teach karate, then I’ve wasted countless hours of my life. To me there is far more to the martial arts to just fighting and training. In any case, I do recognize and respect the notion that each person has their own particular reasons that drive and guide their martial arts journey.

    • Yeah, and I’m a self-taught brain surgeon. You are an idiot.

  241. I just talked with Chuck Sullivan, who is the most senior practitioner (cofounder of the IKCA) in EPAK. His recollection is that colored belts weren’t introduced until the franchising came into existence in the late 1960s or early 1970s.

    • Dear Tom, I ,like you, am getting older. But sometimes a time reference at the same time helps- I Spy. It ran from 1065-68. After some time in Scott’s classes I was let into Norm Pattiz’s Monday- Wednesday sparring class from 8-10pm. I absolutely remember that a few times Ed stopped by to say he would be on the show that night. And Tom Howard, Albert Cornejo, and others like John DeLuna wore greens. We were the sparring team and would compete against Pasadena and Crenshaw. And I was not yet driving so it was absolutely 1967. And yes, I was a kid. Most were 4 to 10 years older than me. But there was also a blonde haired kid from Crenshaw that was 1 year older than me. I hope that clarifies some things.
      Also, I will be in LA on April 2nd. Maybe we can hook up. I will call Dalton from Thailand tonight.
      Take care.

  242. I’ve had enough.
    This is directed to Mills Crenshaw, Squibb, and the newest “big mouth” Earl James.
    I’m making myself available for all you that have bad mouthed me for a full contact (with or without geat)private match at the location of your choosing.
    I do expect reimbursement for travel and lodging if and when I win.
    If I lose I will make a donation to any charity of your choosing.
    All particulars can be discussed and arranged if there is acceptance on your part.
    By the way, don’t do what others tried to do with Robert Libby, pass me off to someone taking your place.
    I’ve come to the conclusion that
    I am going to have to earn my respect among the doubters posting here.
    I didn’t want to go here but have been given no choice by the latest addition to the forum talkers Earl James.

  243. Dear Monfongo, I gave Steve Shaffer every advantage and he weaseled out. You, like me are an “old school” guy . If we had a problem we settled it like men, and sometimes became friends through mutual respect. These starched gi shoulder slapping chickens will never meet a real challenge. If I am in the USA at that time I will cover your back, and that’s a promise.

  244. Rainer Schulte

    You might have noticed that I call you Mr. Libby, because I only call my friend by their first name.
    I believe you would have mad a good Politician they way you dance around Facts and Words.
    How come you’re not listed on the Family Tree as one of Paul Dalton’s black belts???” and “Hey, I think Mr.Bleecker’s right – we didn’t have colored belts in 1965 and we didn’t have 13 year olds in the adult night classes. You must have started way later.” The following is a quote from Larry Tatum.
    >Libby was a managing for a short while about a six months
    before I got there. He came back once to meet me and tried to take some students away with him…didn’t work and Mr.Parker told him to stay away.<
    No one questions you on your fighting ability, because no one has seen you fight, but we do question you on your Kenpo. (Ed Parker's American Kenpo)
    I just returned from California where I had a chance to talk to lot of the Old Timers. None of the seem to remember you.

    • Rainer, I must admit to one error- I actually started June of 1966. In 1065 I was still in judo, but our sensei left Los Angeles.
      Now as to your lies and misrepresentations:
      1. I openly wore a black belt and was the head instructor at Ed Parker’s Kenpo Karate at 11104 Santa Monica Blvd. for about 2 years- this is publicly known by Chuck Sullivan, Vic Leroux, Albert Cornejo, Robert Eisele, Jim Demecke, Larry Tatum. George Waite, Paul Dalton, Leo Monahan, Diane Tanaka, Sam Estrada, Richard Carthew, Mark Mitchell. “Big John” Henderson, and Addison Randall. There are many others.
      2. Larry Tatum stated that I tried to steal students from Ed’s school. That is a complete lie. I started from scratch and a few students came over to me, but not one from Ed Parker’s to that new location. I left Ed’s on good terms. And Ed never told me to “stay away.” Have Tatum say that to my face and see how long he is vertical.
      3. At the age of 15 I was in the Monday- Wednesday sparring classes of Norm Pattiz. People that know this- Paul Dalton, Norm Pattiz, Jim Winston, Albert Cornejo, Vic Leroux, Jim Demecke, Robert Eisele, Dewey Cruise, Tom Kelly (a catholic priest, not the really big Tom Kelly), Tom Howard, John DeLuna, and others. One memorable night was when I was sparring with Jim Denecke and I charged him and he went into the front picture window and destroyed it- THANK GOD JIM WAS NOT HURT!!! All he did was cut a toe. But the window exploded. It could have been very bad.
      3. I promoted Chuck McDerris to black belt with Mark Mitchell. That night I kicked in Chuck to 1st black and Addison Randall to 3rd. degree brown. This is known by Addison Randall, Mark Mitchell, Paul Dalton, and I believe Mitchell Spirt.
      4. I am not listed in the Ed Parker Family Tree because I chose Ed off to a real fight, and he hid behind Lelani’s dress. I had a started teaching at a Westwood health club. I had a verbal dispute with a guy badmouthing Paul Dalton. He called Ed and told him I tore up my black belt certificate, urinated on it publicly, and screamed “Ed Parker is shit.” Yeah, that happened. I would have possibly been arrested. So Ed called the owner and told him “Bob goes or I come down there and hurt his students. WOW, the “Honolulu street-fighter” threatening white belts- what a tough guy. All he had to do was call me and ask. This incident certainly shows how unstable Ed was. I later called Ed from Tom Bleecker’s apartment, which Tom’s student Steve Walton said he remembers a phone call to Ed by me, and chose Ed off. Ed later had Lelani call me at my house in North Hollywood, Calif., and she told me that Ed had a VERY BAD HEART and could drop dead in a fight. Her words, while in tears, were “please don’t kill my husband.” I assured her I would never hurt a sick man.
      Now as to you you arrogant little Smurf- I saw your video in Germany- your Kenpo sucks. I also saw your little show where you knock some guy out by touching his face and neck- pure cult bullshit. To bad your not in Calif now; I would love to have you try that parlor trick on me. You are a fraud. Now go talk to my witnesses and see who’s lying? Oh, by the way, FUCK YOU!!!

  245. Ronert,
    Thanks a mil!
    Although we’ve never met I hope you don’t mind if I call you my friend.
    Like you, I’ve simply started to get fed up with these guys “yapping”.
    I agree with you, they will keep talking but won’t step up.
    I give respect when I get it.
    From the start Crenshaw rubbed me the wrong way and then his kenpo buddies followed.
    The last time something like this happened to me was when a well known Georgia based “master” started trash talking me.
    This was ten years ago.
    Reliable sources in GA. were keeping me up on his comments.
    I asked for proof.
    They recorded him.
    I flew out to GA. and arrived at hos dojo greesed up, wearing hand wraps, in shorts, sneakers, shirtless.
    He was teaching a children’s class so I just stood by the seating area and stared in his direction.
    He was executing techniques fast and hard, until he saw me.
    All of a sudden he starts to do things slow, clucthes his back like its hurting, and walks like he’s 90.
    Class over, he walks over hand strecthed out wanting to shake mine and he’s looking pale.
    I wispered “lucky there a chikdren here because I was going to turn your gi red”.
    He bowed and in a low tone responded “Thanks for not embarrassing me in front of the kids, and I’m sorry”.
    I left and he never mentioned me again.
    True story.
    Glad to know we have each other’s back.
    When in US, hopefully South Florida we can meet up.
    Dinner for you and yours on me.

    • I found this thread entertaining. I have read Robert Libby’s replies. Made me laugh as I learned more about the person. Then became sad as I learned more about this person Robert Libby.

      These are some things I also found interesting about the person writing as Robert Libby. The person is Anti-mormon who shares the same misinformation about religion as Kenpo. In 2014 Robert Libby has an 18 year old daughter as reason for not posting a video. Now when writing in 2015 has grandchildren.

      The personality Robert Libby and the aka’s this person uses suggests a multiple personality disorder. Gets really angry very easily. Likes to reword others comments. So many commenter have picked apart the Robert libby claims. Yours was the most enjoyable to read.

      The conclusion of Robert Libby. ¹ is anti-mormon and is quite possibly the reason for attack against Ed Parker’s character. ² Robert Libby lies ³ likes to think of the past as a current event ? was upset that Ed Parker didn’t train him personally, if Ropert ever actually trained in kenpo. ? wouldn’t meet the challenge of Mr. Mills who honorably defended his friend Ed Parker ? rides kawasaki motorcycles at the age of 70 plus according to some of Libby’s comments in 2014 and 2015 but could be much much younger according to 2014 daughter being 18 comment ? never met Ed Parker but threatened Ed over the phone and with witnesses that at the time of Libby’s replies were either lacking memory of his existence or was calling people liars ? as up to this part in comments no reference to any links to YouTube posts Libby supposedly was to post. Who by the way stated Robert Libby was actual name.

      There are other kenpo instructors/practitioners/teachers that could have also been used by Robert Libby who are alive today as far as validation or for Robert’s purposes to attempt to discredit Kenpo. Instead it is a personal attack on Ed Parkers abilities to fight? Na I think it’s more of an Anti-mormon thing , and attempting to use a book, Kenpo, and a tiny bit of history twisted in Robbert Libby’s words to defame Ed Parker. This is the same Ed Parker who earned a black Belt in Judo, was awarded a black belt by his teacher William Chow. He was first taught kenpo by William Chow’s brother Frank Chow. The William Chow (William Ah Sun Chow “Hoon”) who was given a black belt by James Mitose (James Masayoshi Mitose). The Very same William Chow who was known for brawling or getting into street fights with military personnel.

      I could be wrong and it could very well be just a person who dislikes Edward Parker. After recently reading and article by Will Tracey he seems to share very similar things as this guy Robert Libby.

      There also seems to be some confusion about a book and stolen students? I guess it’s a Jimmy Woo (James Wing Woo) vs Jimmy Woo.

  246. They will not accept a challenge. Now Steve Shaffer is making it seem as if I threatened to come in and just pound him, and that the Leon County Sheriff will arrest me if I show up- what a punk.
    The “new Kenpo buzz” is from Rainer Schulte and implies that I never really got a black, lied about my time at Ed Parker’s school, despite there being hundreds of witnesses, and Larry Tatum saying I was not there for the time I said, but he is another Parker cult follower with money to lose. But what is the funniest is Rainer says I am not on the Ed Parker Fmily Tree under Paul Dlton as a black belt- OF COURSE NOT, I AM THE GUY THAT CHOSE ED OFF!!!!! Yet Ed had me on promotion boards, promised me a bump from 1st to 3rd degree, ran the school, i OPENLY WORE A BLACK BELT, and left on good terms. It is all so provable, but like so many new breed MA people they have no honer.
    So please look at Riner Schulte on Youtube. He does this touch to the side of some guys head and neck and the guy goes down unconscious- pure cult theater. I guess Rainer has the “Death Touch” down. I have a buddy that speaks German and he will translate it for me when he gets back.
    Good luck my friend.

  247. Rainer Schulte

    I give up. It is useless taking to a psychopath

    • You also give up because I buried you with provable facts and real witnesses, all of who but 3 are EPAk black belts. And all are provable, unlike your “death touch.” Go slap yourself for awhile.

  248. Hey, Rainer. I just had a rough translation done. You claim on German TV that you used your body’s electricity to knock this guy out. Most fakes do not like being exposed publicly. You constantly implied that I was a liar, and I do not take that lying down. You and so many of the “new Kenpo” cult are just punks. I could have kicked your candy ass when I was 15 to 16. So go practice your “death touch.” You also implied I should be put away for using the term “lederhosen” as a rite of passage. You are a clown. You gave up because you were exposed.

  249. This entire thread has finally piqued my interest to the degree that I’m looking into its roots, as well as its subsequent sub-threads. Having read all of the 342 responses that have been posted over the past four plus years, my sense is that there’s more going on here than meets the eyes. I need to do some research, but in the interim, I think it’s important to know that this thread was started over four years ago by this site’s owner, Al Case, who claims to have written over 2,000,000 words that have been included in a wide assortment of martial arts magazines, and worked for “Inside Kung-fu” magazine. Al Case labels this article “Chinese Kenpo Karate Scandal!” without alleging its truth or falsity, yet then goes on to write the article about allegations of Ed Parker double-crossing Jimmy Woo over 50 years ago as if his (Case’s) statements are fact, and then closes by stating that he’s looking forward to hearing any information anyone might have. Then throughout four years and 342 responses, Al Case offers just a single comment four years ago, and then never again participates, except for an April 2014 comment in which he states that he doesn’t monitor the site, that everything that is written gets posted, and that he hates censorship. If that’s true, then why start the thread in the first place and label it as he did? Those who have read this thread can readily see that its original subject matter was long ago abandoned and been replaced with four years of what some have viewed as a slanderous attack on Ed Parker and American Kenpo. I’ll return in a few days once I have distilled this thread down to its essentials. Those who are interested in Al Case’s background, here is his website that includes a video: http://monstermartialarts.com/

  250. Addendum: Note that the title of Al Case’s article reads: “The Terrible Truth about Ed Parker and Chinese Kenpo, ” but two sentences later he writes “Unfortunately, I don’t know how true it is, but with the information I present in this article perhaps some one could let me know if they have any light to shed on the truth or falsity of it.” That was more than four years ago. Over the course of 342 posts, Al Case never again offers further comment. On the face of this, it appears that Al Case merely lit a fuse and then permanently left never again to return. I find that odd.

  251. Few thoughts on this discussion

    * The debate of street vs. sport is false dichotomy. Sport fighters are as able as Kenpoists to target the vulnerable areas of the body. When the time comes for them to add dirt, they can.

    * Bas Rutten, the MMA fighter, has some thoughts on “street karate”. It’s worth a listen. Link here goo.gl/uu4cUw

    * Video of a Kenpo instructor losing the Gracie challenge twice in less than 2 minutes. Could he have stopped the takedowns with Charging Rams? Stopped the choke with a bite? Link here goo.gl/d6LraO

    * Had Mills Crenshaw taken the fight against Milo Savage, he’d have been KO’d quickly. That likelihood and the resulting harm to Kenpo’s reputation is likely why Ed Parker had LeBell take the match. Boxing isn’t a good stylistic match against grappling, a fact known since the old catch-as-catch-can days, and had LeBell lost there would be no harm to Kenpo’s reputation and thus Parker’s business.

    * Is this video evidence that Kung Fu works in the street? Do the Kenpo stories of fending off attackers bear any similarity to this video? Link here goo.gl/q2WXrb

    * 10 minute video explaining why set techniques, forms, sets, and point sparring are not especially useful from Matt Thornton. Personally, I find the first few UFCs more persuasive. Link here goo.gl/vIuLsg

    *All Kenpoists should take 6 months and learn to box. Don’t think of it as abandoning Kenpo, but as applying it, if that helps justify such a course of action. You’ll be glad you did even if you decide to abandon it completely at the end of the 6 months. Timing, angles, footwork, conditioning, relaxation, and increased toughness will be your reward that you can always take back to EPAK if you wish.

    * The way Kenpoists view Aikido is how sportive art people view Kenpo (need I explain why?). Keeping this in mind could help you understand why speaking of the street / tailoring / defense / etc. doesn’t convince combat sport enthusiasts otherwise.

  252. What follows is my response to the original question posed by Al Case regarding Ed Parker’s relationship with Jimmy Wing Woo and the book (“The Secrets of Chinese Karate”) they were writing (ironically, since Al Case asked this question over four years ago, only one out of the nearly 400 responses have addressed this issue). In the late 1950s, Ed Parker was starting to establish himself within the martial arts community in this country, but specifically in the Los Angeles area. By 1959, his school in Pasadena was his only school, although he would soon open a second school on La Cienega Blvd. in Los Angeles. Around that time, he was being introduced to members of the Chinese martial arts communities that were rooted in the Los Angeles and San Francisco Chinatowns. While visiting San Francisco, he was introduced to Jimmy Woo, who was a highly respected kung-fu practitioner whose skill level was thought to be on a par with Bruce Lee. Not long after Ed Parker and Jimmy Woo met, they agreed to write a book together. Because Jimmy was not fluent in English and Ed was a college graduate, Ed was to do all the writing and Jimmy’s contribution was to supply the majority of the information (surely Jimmy was far more knowledgeable about the “secrets” of Chinese karate). So that the two could work closely together, Ed arranged for Jimmy to stay in Ed’s home in Pasadena. Throughout the duration of the writing, Ed supplied Jimmy with room and board, and may have paid him a small living expense. In return, because Ed was busy writing the book, which I know from personal experience as a professional writer is sufficiently time-consuming, Jimmy agreed to help with the teaching at the Pasadena school. For a considerable time, theirs proved to be a good working relationship. This changed, however, around the time the book was finished. Although I have no personal knowledge of the nature of their disagreement, I am well familiar with the reality that such disagreements do occur, especially in the absence of a clear cut written contract. Unable to agree, the two parted company, most likely with the understanding that their disagreement would be worked out at a later date, hopefully without the necessity of a civil lawsuit. Jimmy Woo moved to North Hollywood where he opened a small Tai Chi school along with a half dozen or so of Ed students whom Jimmy had been teaching for some time at the Pasadena school and who chose to continue training with Jimmy. With regard to any resolution of Ed Parker and Jimmy Woo’s disagreement over the book, I have no knowledge of this, although I’m not aware of any lawsuit being filed. As an aside, knowing the nature of the book and the cost of publishing a run of hard bound copies, my sense is that no royalties were earned. As an important aside, I would like to respond to the notion that Ed Parker fooled Jimmy Woo into traveling to Hollywood where Ed then kicked Jimmy out of the car and left him, for all intents and purposes, homeless and penniless. In my view, I highly doubt that this occurred, the reason being quite simple and plausible. Ed Parker was a smart man who had graduated college with a degree in sociology. That being the case, if he had done to Jimmy Woo what has been alleged in this thread, Jimmy could have totally destroyed the reputation of Ed Parker among the powerful Chinese martial arts communities in Los Angeles and San Francisco, which, from a business standpoint if nothing else, would have been the kiss of death. Ed Parker was far too intelligent to have made such a reckless move. To the contrary, what has been widely documented is that shortly before their split, a group of students at the Pasadena school had agreed to pool their money and finance the lease of the school that Jimmy Woo eventually opened on Hollywood Boulevard and, I’m fairly certain, lived in for many years thereafter. I hope this helps to answer Al Case’s initial question.

  253. The Bas Ruten/Joe Rogan comments are spot on. The Gracie vs Kenpo fight speaks volume. But the Kung Fu guy vs gangster in many ways says the most. After he does his BIG Kung Fu salutation and they actually clash all his Kung Fu went right out the window. His punches looked like a totally unschooled person, but he caught the guy with what I would call a “lucky punch.” Kung Fu guy was flailing like any untrained person in the street and once they got in range he looked no different that the gangster guy. Which slides into Matt Thornton- you play like you practice, and if 70 to 80% of your training is on katas and techniques against motionless people you CANNOT FIGHT MOVING OPPONENTS!!!! Non-contact sparring diminishes your skills so you spend 100% of your time on things that do not work in real time.
    A full-contact fighter can alter and shorten their strikes. A non-contact fighter CANNOT LENGTHEN THEIR STRIKES- IT DOES NOT WORK THAT WAY!!! Their hits will be just like Kung Fu guy- LUCK.

  254. Rainer Schulte

    Mr. Robert Libby,
    your friends translation is probably as good as your Kenpo. I did not talk about MY Electricity. You would not know anything about this. I do remember most of the individuals you mentioned. I do not remember a bad dude like you. You must have been on the bottom of the Totem Pole. >>And Ed never told me to “stay away.” Have Tatum say that to my face and see how long he is vertical.>> WOW, quite a statement. He is in CA, why don’t you go see him.
    Have you ever finished kindergarten?

  255. Yes Rainer, I have finished kindergarten and I am quite well read and have a college degree. So then explain to me how this guy collapses, loses consciousness, and all you did was touch the side of his head and neck?
    You see Rainer, when you literally call a man a liar they get pissed. As to the “totem pole”, no, I do not have a high degree black belt, but I can take a punch. No, I do not know all the forms, but I can ACTUALLY hit someone. Unlike you and the vast majority of unproven posers I know how to fight for real. I taught at PFS of Ridgecrest for 2 years- 1999 to 2001. So if I am considered good enough to be the main teacher at a Paul Vunak affiliate, and a Full Instructor under Vunak named Kevin Sheldon says I am good enough, and totally respects my fighting skills and knowledge, and considered me his equal I have little to prove to you. You see in PFS we actually box, kickbox, grapple, and play for real. We do not play “tag” and do meaningless techniques on immobile people, nor do we do forms. If you doubt what I am saying please contact Duane Yoshito Walden at No Way Martial Arts in Los Angeles. He is a Senior Full Instructor under Vunak and the regional director for PFS, and he used to call me his seifu. I trained him while in Chico, Calif.
    So I guess I am respected on a “totem pole” that matters, the PFS one. And Hartsell had deep respect for Vunak. As to Tatum. let him contact me. He would be little challenge.

  256. Tom, I will further elaborate on what you have addressed in regards to the Parker/ Woo relationship. I will leave out some details that may be provocative.
    Sometime around early 1960 it was arranged by one of Lau Bun’s students for EP and some of his students which included Rich Montomery and James Ibrao to visit Lau Bun’s school and T. Y. Wong’s school in San Francisco. It was at this time that EP met Mr. Woo . At that time EP invited some of Lau students and Mr. Woo to visit him in Pasadena. It was during this visit that Mr. Woo was invited to return and stay so that they could write a book. To the best of my knowledge Mr. Woo never had a problem expressing himself in English. He spent nearly 4 years in the Navy,1941-45. His writing style while being very precise was not smooth. Mr. Woo did the research and would dictate to EP who did the typing. In the evenings at the studio while EP was teaching, Mr. Woo would do rewrites. At this time, Mr. Woo also helped EP construct some of the Kenpo forms and taught EP some Gung Fu basics and possibly 2 Chinese sets that were never incorporated into Kenpo. After about 6 months, Mr Woo began teaching Gung Fu to the advanced class. Make no mistake these guys at one time were good friends. Mr. Woo advised EP on a number of things. Though some of the advice may have not have been in the best interets of EP’s vision of a commercial martial arts school. Mr. Woo was very old school. The problem with their relationship was that they were both alpha males and I suspect that Leilani Parker didn’t care for Mr. Woo. Over time their relationship became distant and Mr. Woo was going to go back to San Francisco where he had a wife and family. EP and Mr. Woo separated after Mr. Woo declined to sign the publishing agreement because he felt that the agreement was unfair to both himself and EP and he held hope for a better deal. When Mr. Woo was about to return to San Francisco he was asked by some of EP students to stay and open a school. His 1st school opened on Hollywood Blvd and Western Ave. it was called Academy of Kung Fu Karate. EP lost most of his black and brown belts as well as several intermediate and beginning students. They never saw or talked to each other again. When I spoke with Mr. Woo about this I got the impression that he missed the relationship that they once had.

  257. Thanks, Michael, for elaborating on Ed Parker and Jimmy Woo’s relationship. You unquestionably were very close to Mr. Woo and knew him far better than I did. I believe you’re correct about his command of English. I do now recall when I spoke with him over the phone in 2000 when writing the first Kenpo journey book with Joe Hyams that I had no trouble understanding him. Thanks again.

  258. A friend sent this YouTube video link that I enjoyed watching.

  259. Oops, correction. Mr. Woo joined the U.S. Navy in 1942. It was Dec. 8th 1941 that Mr. Woo went to join the U.S. Marines but left when told he would never be used in combat.

  260. Mr. Robert Libby,
    All you have to do is go to some of the Seminars happening around the world to show these “incompetent” Kenpo People how it is done. I have seen your Video and have to agree with some of your points, but it looks like you did not get the meaning about System and Style. The style is according to your mental and physical ability and NOT “this is how it has to be done”. You have to be able to alter, change, add, insert or delete when necessary. (Street or Gym)
    Sir, You talk about “real” Street fighting! Have you walked the Streets of Karachi, Lahore, Sialkot, Peshawar, Jalalabad? The Streets of Cairo, Luxor? or similar places to name just a few. Well I have, and many more bad places. And I can prove it! Have you been shot, stabbed and sliced? If you can say YES, I can and WILL respect you. If NO you are just another loudmouth. I am 75 years old and still go to Seminars to display MY STYLE of Kenpo. It served me well and without it I would not be here to talk about it.

  261. I do not feel I have to go to a seminar for a challenge as someone like Steve Shaffer would have me arrested. And I have chosen off Ed Parker to fight- he hid, chose off Ron Wilstein to a real fight, didn’t show up as he “pulled his groin muscle”, and asked Steve Shaffer to accept my challenge and gave him all possible advantages and he chickened out. I backed a Kenpo black belt against a fence one time as he insulted me and the first words out of his mouth were “I’ll sue you if you touch me.” He talked tough too.
    As to “danger”, I have lived in the Golden Triangle for 12 years, not just visited. It is a haven for Burmese, Chinese, and Thai mafias. The highway near us is called “the methamphetamine super-highway.” It is also a major area for heroin, human trafficking, and gun running. I have had too many fights to count and had people go after me with knifes, machetes, and clubs. Now I am not telling Ed Parker type bullshit stories here. A couple of serious issues helped me to win- often times the people coming after me were blind drunk, and I had 2 large police dogs that saved my ass. I also carry a 3 foot piece of pipe and know how to use it, and have had to use it. Things get so crazy here that three 16 year old girls on meth-amphetamines tried to rob me with a teeny tiny knife while I had the dogs and pipe. Even the dogs were confused.
    As to altering or adapting your style, it cannot be done unless you use moving opponents. In the video I saw you in, although very very short, you did techniques on a still person. I NEVER do techniques on still people unless it is for beginners, and after that all people are in motion; otherwise, you are doing “dead training” and it is useless.

  262. A few closing thoughts. First, a couple of edits: The Lucy Show was taped in 1961, not 1967, and two, I am not a tenth degree black. I was a fourth when Ed Parker passed, and 50 years later I’m a seventh. A word about Larry Hartsell. Larry and I were close friends for many years. I was training at the first SM school when he started his Kenpo journey in the winter of 1963. We became instant friends. I arranged his going away dinner the night before he left for Viet Nam. He was the best man at my marriage ceremony to Linda Lee. At no time in all the years I knew Larry did he ever once speak unkindly or disrespectfully about Ed Parker. In fact, at the wedding reception the two got along quite well. Regarding Bob Libby challenging Ed Parker to a fight, I think it is wrong to assume that Ed Parker was a coward because he did not agree to the fight. To the contrary, it’s possible that he was heading out the door en route to meet Libby but decided against it at the pleadings of his wife. After all, Ed had five kids, owned property, and a reputation of being a master of the martial arts. Getting into a fight with a kid who is barely out of high school would have put a great deal at risk. That aside, over the course of his lifetime, Ed Parker was challenged to a fair share of fights that he walked away from, as was Bruce Lee and many other martial arts masters. Walking away doesn’t necessarily make a man a coward. Next topic: Bob Libby’s knowledge of Kenpo, as well as his rank and file, are relatively easy to confirm one way or the other. For those who are interested, there are individuals still living who were around during those early years. That said, I can state that everyone I spoke with confirmed that when it came to Bob Libby’s fighting prowess, he was known as a ferocious fighter who thumped with many of the best Kenpo fighters of the day. About Ed Parker: although an imperfect man like all of us, most would agree that over the course of his lifetime he enriched the lives of hundreds of thousands of people worldwide. Two years before he died, I produced a Tribute to Ed Parker that was held at the Bonaventure Hotel in Los Angeles. It was a semi-formal dinner and show that was attended by a couple thousand guests, many of them celebrities. Dan Inosanto cancelled a seminar so that he could attend; and I still recall Chuck Norris’s closing comments at the podium (actually have it on film), of “I respect, admire, and love Ed Parker.” Two years later when Ed Parker passed, a couple hundred martial artists stood at his gravesite and respectfully delivered the Kenpo salute to the man they credit for making them better human beings. When those who have posted on this forum arrive at their final hour (including myself), how many of us will have tributes given in our honor and a couple hundred people showing respect at our graves? Perhaps this is worth considering. In closing, please give thought to what you’re posting. These flurries of my Kenpo is better than yours, and I’m a bigger badass than you are, the war stories, and challenges of pistols at dawn are demeaning to all of us. Surely some of you would not want your children and grandchildren reading some of your posts. If, on the hand, continuing your battle serves some purpose in your lives, then do everyone a favor and take it private. I apologize if I appear to be judgmental. What I have shared is with respect and the best of intentions.

  263. Dear Tom, as per your prior advice, and having read this, let’s put the “I said he said bullshit” away. I’ll leave it at “I am glad I made contact with you again, accept your advice and friendship, and put it all behind me.” Let’s let sleeping dogs lie.
    I will do some more videos, but in an analysis sense to help people learn and avoid injuries.
    Sincerely,
    Robert B. Libby

  264. Amen!
    I believe that Mr. Bleecker through his “words of wisdom” has helped us all immensely.
    Thank you for helping us all to move on Mr. Bleecker.

  265. We’re all better off for turning this around. Bob, when you have a moment please drop me an email tombleecker at Gmail. Salute

  266. The sub-sub-culture called Kenpo will never be of enough importance to have a Uni hold the collective records of its history for real study — more’s the pity. The closet thing seems to be the Tracy’s whose website looks like it hasn’t been updated since 1998, where the articles are poorly written, and the conclusions tendentious.

    There are many questions of interest that should be answered. Is it not time that there be a “fearless and searching self inventory” in this thing of ours? The usual game of telephone that passes for history does not suffice. Here are a few questions I hope someone can answer for the sake of idle curiosity.

    > Did Ed Parker have any fights that we can document? If Leilani saw him splatter a sailor’s nose all over his white shirt, almost kill another sailor, and scare two more away, she might’ve written about it in letter or journal near the date of it’s occurrence. If any of the other Kenpo founders — the Emperado brothers, William Chow, etc. — saw him fight there might be letters, journals, or first-hand statements to living people. Certainly one of his seven fights that included 4 or more armed attackers would be documented somewhere.

    > Did Ed Parker give the Tracy brothers their black belts then later go around saying that he didn’t? If so, why?

    > Did William Chow really learn Kung Fu from his father and use that to insert circular motions into Mitose’s Kenpo? Chow had several brothers, if their father taught them Kung Fu then it should be easy to confirm or refute.

    > If Chow did not learn Kung Fu from his father, who started the lie that he did and for what purpose? Per the Tracy’s, Chow’s father got in a fight, performed so poorly that onlookers thought he was goofing around, then bit his opponent repeatedly in desperation. They use that episode as evidence that Chow did NOT know Kung Fu. That the onlookers thought he was goofing off signals to me that he might well have been trying the ridiculous Kung Fu movements then resorted to biting when they failed to work.

    > Why did Parker boot his star pupil Larry Tatum out? Was there disagreement about American Kenpo? Business dishonesty? No one seems to know anything. Was there not a single memo, letter, or public statement?

    > Why did Parker’s black belts leave him for Jimmy Wing Woo?

    > Why did Parker’s black belts leave him for Bruce Lee? I’d have done it too . . . but what reason(s) did those who left give?

    > Did Parker ever say why he asked Gene LeBell to take the Milo Savage fight? Beyond the laughable “he didn’t want Savage killed” by a badass Kenpoist. Why didn’t Parker take the challenge himself?

    > When and why did the wearing belt knots on the side become mandatory? Was it indeed a rip-off of Mormon temple rituals? The theory that it’s from the Japanese tradition of a student moving the knot to his front when he was ready to challenge the Sensei to a fight does not ring true.

    > Anyone have footage of James Mitose practicing Kenpo?

    > Anyone have footage of Chow beyond the 20 seconds of him demonstrating in California in the early 1980s?

    > Are there any first-hand, contemporary accounts of Chow’s reportedly many fights?

    > For all the insistence by some EPAK pracitioners that theirs is a complete martial art that includes ground fighting and grappling, is there any evidence whatsoever that Parker even thought about ground fighting? (Side note: it’s simultaneously hilarious and embarrassing when Kenpoists claim the “complete art” rubbish and say they just didn’t notice the profound ground fighting in the system until they’d practiced for 30 years.)

    > How much did Parker’s Mormon faith influence his Kenpo? He apparently believed God “inspired” him and sent “intelligence flowing though” him. Did he believe Jesus revealed the techniques? “Put a hammer fist to the nose after the block, thus saith the Lord.”?

    > Could the belief that his techniques were Divinely revealed by the reason Parker didn’t seem to think he should test them on resisting opponents?

    > Whose face, besides Parker’s, appears on the cover of “The Journey”? It looks like Huk Planas. Was EP Jr making a statement about his father’s successor?

    > Is there any mention in Parker’s personal papers about Sub-Level 4?

  267. As I promised I am not jumping on EP, but the changes came around 1972-3 as far as the knot being on the side, at least at Santa Monica. I technically do not know whose idea it was. When I was at Santa Monica black belts did not have to turn their knot to the side, but lower belts did. There was a rumor that a lower ranked black belt was going to have to put his knot to the side if a higher rank was there. I know this entire concept was not popular with the “old timers.”
    The other bizarre part was the bowing all the time. Nobody had ever instructed me on this concept when I returned, but it drove me NUTS!!! If there were 10 guys in the corridor I got bowed to 10 separate times, and not just a head bob like we used to do, but the whole shield/sword cat stance salute. I one day said “I will hit the next person who bows to me- once when I get in is more than enough.” So if say I was coming out of my office a green belt would bow to me formally, and as I was leaving the bathroom 2 minutes later he would bow formally again. It was very “cultish” or militaristic, and it always had this very forceful “SIR!!!” with it. One guy did the ENTIRE Kenpo salute to me at a supermarket while I was with my girlfriend and said “Mr. Libby Sir, is there anything I can do for you?” I was mystified and embarrassed, and my girlfriend thought he was nuts.
    As to the Mormon thing, and rumors of racism that have been mentioned on other sites, I never once heard Ed talk about his faith, but I knew he was a Mormon. And I never heard him make a racist remark. I also never saw him drink coffee or alcohol.
    As far as I knew Ed did give the Tracys black belts. I have never met them and I always thought of them as the “Kenpo guys in Northern California.”
    I believe the people that went to Bruce Lee did so because he was just so damn good, and he taught personally a lot. I can say that I was only taught by Ed for say 2-3 hours in 4 years. But he did have 4 schools, and Bruce had one. When I was at the IMB in the 70s I was always taught by Dan Inosanto or Richard Bustillo. I very fondly remember Richard pulling me aside and counseling me- he said “you are always trying to land bombs. You have to sit back more, pick your shots, and relax; then you will last longer.” He was right.
    As to ground fighting there was none. I learned two ground techniques from Scott Loring in a regular class. One for a “school boy pin”, and a different one for a side headlock. I did learn a lot of grappling from Larry Hartsell, but that was not taught in regular classes. I did teach a few people some grappling in private, but never paid for it.
    I personally do not feel that a valid history can be written for many martial arts. There has been too much time, too many stories, way too much ego, and many have far too much money to lose.
    As to a successor- my vote would go for Huk. That is just my opinion and may be wrong.
    I had heard a rumor as to why Tatum was bounced, but it is just that- a rumor, so I will not repeat it. I also do not believe it.
    I hope this helps.

  268. As most martial artists familiar with “The Journey” know, I am the book’s publisher. Regarding the front cover, Ed Parker is not featured, nor is any other identifiable person. The martial artist who is pictured on the cover represent “everyman” martial artist.

  269. >”Regarding the front cover, Ed Parker is not featured, nor is any other identifiable person.”

    Actually, he does. Ed Jr. is just an even better artist than you realize. How else to explain that the publisher of a book covered with his art didn’t see it?

    Hint: look at the clouds for 2 faces. One is clearly Ed Parker Sr. The other face is open to interpretation. They’re very subtle.

    When you see them please ask EP Jr. whose is the second face and congratulate him on being such a fantastic artist.

  270. >”I personally do not feel that a valid history can be written for many martial arts. ”

    You might, sadly, be right. Though you’d think that because
    – our pertinent time frame goes back only a century
    – film and audio have existed for that entire time
    – near universal literacy for the pertinent times & places and paper & pens are cheap
    – newspapers, police reports, magazines, etc. have existed in spades for that time

    we’d have a better idea about our history. Instead we have rumors generated with the telephone game for history; or maybe “history”. It reminds me of this scene from the Sopranos. tinyurl.com/lartvam (definitely NSFW!)

    Your answer answers some of my questions. Thanks.

    I’ll keep an eye on your Youtube channel. If you write about your experiences or views, I’ll read it if you put the link on your Youtube. Honest inquiry is not feuding or bashing and should be tolerated. Inquiry does not become dishonorable because some of the people investigated are deceased.

  271. “Former Kenpo,” would you care to share your name? As to the cover of “The Journey,” I can assure you that there is no secret artwork or messages. The only subtle image on the front cover is the dragon. If Ed Parker’s son wanted to share any of his views, he could have done so inside the book, as he was the primary source of his father’s chapter (“Founder”) and the history chapter. Had Edmund wanted to make a statement, I most likely would have allowed it.

  272. Bob Libby, if you sent an email to the address I posted, I didn’t receive it. Perhaps you misspelled my surname and inadvertently left out the “c”? Anyway, the address is tombleecker @ gmail . com

  273. For Tom Bleecker:
    Is the Karate Connection course good for self-defense?
    As a respected source I thought I might get your insight.
    Need to learn at my apt in between college classes and video is only way.
    The school only has a Japanese class(I don’t like it).
    I am torn between Krav Maga and the KC condensed kenpo style.
    Thank you for answering my question.

  274. Kenny, the Karate Connection is an excellent source for learning American Kenpo. As you most likely know, it was founded by EPAK’s most senior practitioner Chuck Sullivan and Chuck’s partner Vic LeRoux, another Kenpo old-timer and elder.

  275. >”I can assure you that there is no secret artwork or messages. The only subtle image on the front cover is the dragon.”

    Mr. Bleecker, the images are there. It’s plain day after you first see it, but not as large as the dragon and even more understated.

    I’m not implying that it’s a “secret”, just subtly blended. Being a gifted artist who imbues his work with depth and symbolism is a good thing.

    My questions were just a matter of curiosity about an interesting piece of art, not an attempt at muckraking.

  276. Former Kenpo (still no name?), let’s just leave it at you see images in the clouds that I don’t. This goes out to the handful of people who have been posting on this board: there are several excellent EPAK forums on the Internet. If you’re seriously interested in broadening your base and belong to Facebook, I strongly suggest that you join the group “Kenpo, Past, Present, and Future.” There are other excellent Kenpo pages on Facebook, as well as several other good sites outside Facebook.

  277. >”Former Kenpo (still no name?), let’s just leave it at you see images in the clouds that I don’t.”

    Here’s a thread from another board with plenty of people talking about it.
    http://www.martialtalk.com/threads/the-journey.10895/

    So we’ll just have to, as a matter of objective fact, leave it at I’m right and you’re wrong.

    This is a message board and pseudonyms are the norm. Welcome to the interwebz.

    Enjoy your search for the picture of EP & unverified other. Be sure to call EP jr. when you see them and congratulate him on his artistic abilities.

  278. >” Is the Karate Connection course good for self-defense?”

    Kenny, the short answer is a resounding no, but not because Messrs. Sullivan or Leroux are not skilled Kenpoists or teachers.

    The reason it will fail you if you need to defend yourself is because of the method of teaching and practice. This link explains the problem well — goo.gl/vIuLsg

    The same is true of any Krav Maga tapes you are thinking of buying.

    Practicing alone, and in static patterns at that, will not give you the understanding of timing, angles, or positioning that are so imperative to actual fighting. Moreover, the Karate moves are not particularly effective because they are not informed by actual experience. Have you ever seen a punch that was Karate blocked in boxing or mma? No, and there’s good reason for that: no one can pull it off on a resisting opponent.

    There are things that you can do that will most certainly improve your ability to defend yourself. If there there really isn’t a martial arts scene in your town, then the best thing you could do for your self defense abilities would be to get strong.

    Double or triple your strength and see if that doesn’t work magic for your abilities. You’ll hit much harder and throw your attacker around much more easily.
    startingstrength.com

  279. I’ve taken a hard look at this thread and agree with those who have pointed out that one person is using numerous names that follow an identical agenda. Personally, I have no interest in having a dialogue with a person who is unwilling to reveal their identity. I didn’t respond to this recent string of observations and statements because they are rehashing much of the old threads. They were boring then, and they’re boring now. I did, however, respond to the original question posed by the person who runs this site – and I believe that I gave a reasonable answer that was elaborated upon by Michael Chong. With regard to this alleged mysterious face on the cover of “The Journey” if a handful of people want to pursue it for whatever reason, that’s their decision. I can tell you as the publisher of the book, the subject has no relevance whatsoever to EPAK. Kenny, do yourself a big favor and before passing judgment on the Karate Connection, contact Chuck Sullivan and Vic LeRoux, who are both prominent and highly skilled martial artists, and direct your questions to them. As an aside, their system contains a great deal of reality training.

  280. Kenny, earlier in this thread I shared what I feel is an important observation that I’ve reached after studying and teaching the martial arts for more than 50 years, and that is if all you want to get out of the martial arts is to learn how to fight, you don’t need to spend years learning “the art.” All you need to do is instigate fights with the toughest thugs in your neighborhood and continue to do that for six months and you’ll get tough. Ginchin Funakoshi once stated, “The ultimate aim in the art of karate lies not in victory but in the perfection of the characters of its participants.” I wish you well on your journey.

  281. “With regard to this alleged mysterious face on the cover of “The Journey” . . . I can tell you as the publisher of the book, the subject has no relevance whatsoever to EPAK.” – Tom Bleecker

    Are you really getting pissy because I asked about a piece of art on a book you published? Am I misreading your tone? Do you feel wronged?

    I’ve provided you a link to a plethora of witnesses to the “alleged mysterious face” that includes written descriptions of where it’s located. For you to say alleged at this point is dishonest.

    My question was asked politely. My responses to your denials were polite, even complimentary to the artist (perhaps you misread my tone?). A reasonable response by you would be “Cool stuff. Thanks for letting me know.”

    If you feel wronged by a discussion of the cover art, take it up with EP Jr. After all, he’s the one who had the audacity to put it there – “Ya sumbich! Don’t ya dare work intricacies into art on muh book!”

    Nor did I imply that the cover art has an impact on EPAK. Neither do the portraits within the book, but is it OK with you for people to discuss them?

    For that matter the entire book has no impact in EPAK, which is at the end of the day a set of ideas related to H2H combat unaffected by a book about adherents to those ideas.

    “I’ve taken a hard look at this thread and agree with those who have pointed out that one person is using numerous names that follow an identical agenda.”

    My only posts have been under “Former Kenpo”.

    If you’re accusing me of sockpuppeting, you’re as mistaken about that as you were about yourself playing no part in the Parker / Libby feud or about no faces being on the cover of “The Journey”.

    My writing style doesn’t look like others’ here.

    Regarding an “identical agenda”, several people have expressed a different point of view. A perspective that has become increasingly common since Karate’s well publicized failure in actual combat beginning in 1993. A point of view that will become increasingly common as the older generations, raised on the faux-deadly oriental arts, die off: Martial arts shall continue to progress one funeral at a time.

  282. Former Kenpo (wink), with regard to your ongoing comments about the cover of “The Journey,” as I mentioned earlier, I have no intention of communicating with anyone who is unwilling to state their name. This is my last post, and I’ll leave you and all your other pseudo names with two thoughts: As I read through this thread I was reminded of a paragraph that is contained in my second book on Bruce Lee (“Unsettled Matters”), which is: “Academy award winning screenwriter Stirling Silliphant, himself a black belt, several decades later sadly reminisced. ‘The martial arts never did for Bruce what they did for me or other people. Bruce never achieved any calm out of the martial arts. The very thing that should have protected him, didn’t. He invited a lot of the slings that kept coming back at him. There’s enough trouble in life. Most of us duck it . . . At times Bruce seemed to welcome it.'” Secondly, this entire thread also reminds me of something Huk Planas once said. When a prospective student asked how long it takes the average person to make black belt, Huk replied “Average people don’t make black belt.” And it’s true – making black belt in American Kenpo is a long road and a tough journey. Most who start along that path don’t have the skills and character to earn a black belt. Rarely have I met anyone who has taken this defeat to heart, although, unfortunately the exceptions do exist. In closing, anyone who cares to communicate with me can do so by writing to my via the Gmail address I left (I’m not surprised that I haven’t heard from anyone). In sharp contrast, for those who choose to carry on with these masquerades on this thread and wage war against themselves are certainly welcome to waste their time doing so, but they will do so without my further participation.

    • Dear Tom, while in America I was swamped with my grand kids, but I will get an email off to you in a day or two- massive jet lag right now. I will be back in CA in about 4 to 5 months so maybe we cam visit for awhile. Are you still in the West LA area?

  283. Former Kenpo (wink), with regard to your ongoing comments about the cover of “The Journey,” . . .

    I’ve proven what I said about the artwork. You were mistaken about it at first, but now you’re just a liar.

    “I’ll leave you and all your other pseudo names . . .

    I have used only “Former Kenpo” ITT. If you’ll tell me what other names you think I’m using I’ll be happy to run the texts through online software and post the results showing no common authorship. It’s one of the miracles of this thing called the interwebz.

    Given that you “forgot” about your part in the Parker / Libby call (who could forget about his martial hero being challenged to a fight?) and lie about what I’ve proven about the faces on “The Journey”, your grasp on reality is tenuous, so accusations that I’ve been sockpuppeting this thread aren’t worth a pot of piss.

    Memory loss and agitation are symptoms of dementia: that might be why you got agitated at a polite question and just can’t seem to remember much of anything.

    “I have no intention of communicating with anyone who is unwilling to state their name.”

    >2015 whining about a cyber-plume on an internet forum.

    U mad bro? IDGAF. GTFO.

    You ought to move to Florida, eat the early bird specials, take 5-minutes to piss, and shout at kids to get off your lawn. Then reminisce about “the good ole days” where popular music really meant something and children were respectful to their elders.

    You’re just a liar looking for an escape. As for your surprise at no one emailing you, lemme help you out: you are dishonest, un-insightful, and refuse to answer any questions directed your way.

    Good riddance. ???(?_?)???

  284. wow… the total lack of respect shown here to kenpo elders,, is amazing.. of course its easy to insult behind a computer,,, usually when one lacks intellegant debate,, insults follow ..as evidenced here

  285. the total lack of respect shown here to kenpo elders,, is amazing — Kevin Harshman

    You’re referring to my exchange with Tom Bleecker? The disrespect was shown by him along with his dishonesty. Age does not give him license to accuse me of lying, lie himself, insult me, and storm off in a huff when he’s proven wrong.

    Read the exchange again. I politely asked a question and politely responded to his denials of it, going so far as to provide him a link to a plethora of witnesses to what I said and complimenting EP Jr. on his talents.

    After I proved Bleecker wrong he suddenly won’t talk to those using pseudonyms (as if he hadn’t thrice before), accuses me of sockpuppeting ITT, and storms off. All because I proved him wrong (politely). Things escalated because of Bleecker’s rudeness. A sane person would’ve just noted the art was as I said and thought it was cool to find a detail that had escaped his notice.

    Perhaps he was just embarrassed to have “assured” me “as publisher of The Journey” that I was wrong, only to have me prove him wrong; even if I did so politely.

    of course its easy to insult behind a computer . . .
    Objectively characterizing Bleecker’s behavior is not an insult, just fact.

    I’ve tried to stay out of the challenges, threats, and heated exchanges ITT, but when someone is repeatedly rude in response to polite, even complimentary, behavior it does not pay to turn the other cheek.

    “As is the attitude, so is the response.”, yes?

  286. After reading and rereading the posts on this thread I have concluded that some of you have nothing better to do than to gossip like old women.
    This is utterly disgusting behavior.
    Senior Martial Artists arguing with each other over lame history.
    Why is it that it mostly happens with the Kenpo guys?
    Not that it doesn’t go on in other systems and arts.
    I hope that the next time I come here I find conversations that will be of some benefit and less if none GOSSIP!
    And please do not jump all over me because I have respectfully stated fact.

  287. I had the greatest experience to train, learn and be promoted in the original Pasadena, CA school…the home of IKKA – Ed Parker 1978-1990. Many legendary Kenpoist walk thru 1705 E. Walnut doors. I will always have fond memories of Mr. Parker and his Kenpo Karate. Thank you GM Frank Trejo…one of the greatest martial artist who wore the IKKA Patch.

  288. It happens as Kenpo is now one of the largest systems and global. It also happens due to the passion and time that many of us have spent in it; therefore, many of us have some very strong opinions. But in fairness some very valid points were discussed and for many the air was cleared, so not just a gossip session.
    Good luck.

  289. This is the most sorry display of former Kenpo guys arguing about old stuff.
    I read every post and there does seem to be one or two guys commenting with different names.
    I bet not one of you would have bad mouthed Ed Parker if he were here now.
    And, why hasn’t Ed, Jr. said something to honor the old man?
    I do not care if Ed Parker was a good fighter or not.
    What I do know and care about is that the system works and has worked for me several times.
    The damage has been done and can never be undone.
    All the negative comments about Parker will live on this site just like his great legacy.
    Some of you here have “soiled” that legacy.
    And, for what purpose?

  290. The term “martial art” means war art. Your post is rather meaningless. And as to not saying this while Ed was alive- I chose him off and he folded. He would not fight mr one on one.

  291. I found this on a search of the internet re: Mills Crenshaw:
    Deseret News

    TAX WARRIORS MILLS CRENSHAW: `BATTLING FOR THE LITTLE GUY’

    By Elaine Jarvik, Staff Writer
    Published: Thursday, Nov. 3 1988 12:00 a.m. MST

    Mills Crenshaw was just another radio talk show host, interviewing podiatrists and fielding calls about UFOs, before he found the topic that would make him famous. As Crenshaw remembers it, the whole thing started with a call from a little old lady who complained that rising property taxes threatened to push her from her home.

    Now, 20 months later, that phone call has turned into a tax war, and Mills Crenshaw has emerged as its five-star general, the Patton of the airways.His talk show airs from 1 to 4 p.m. Monday through Friday on K-TALK, at the far left of the AM dial. Crenshaw himself leans closer to the right. He describes himself as an “enlightened conservative.”

    Other people use less generous terms. “They’ve been Bhagwanidized,” says Mayor Palmer DePaulis, referring to what he sees as Crenshaw’s guru-like effect on his listeners. “He’s full of sophism and rhetorical stuff and numbers that don’t compute,” charges the mayor. “But he’s so smooth. He’s very much at ease with people’s feelings. It makes great theater.”

    Numbers that don’t compute? echoes Crenshaw in disbelief. “The mayor’s projections sound like they’re out of an Isaac Asimov novel!”

    Armed with colorful analogies and charts full of figures, Crenshaw has become the most visible, and most controversial, proponent of the tax initiatives on the ballot Nov. 8. His opponents have even immortalized him with a bumper sticker: “If you need a cop, call Mills Crenshaw. Vote Against A, B, C.”

    Crenshaw put the sticker on his own sports car, crossing out the “against” and substituting “for.”

    Utah’s tax battle may be the first campaign of its kind to be planned and carried out on the radio. Tapes of those shows, monitored by his opponents, Taxpayers for Utah, have turned up examples of Crenshaw’s penchant for drama. According to Taxpayers for Utah, he has described their members as “paid political assassins” and “terrorists.”

    In September he was recorded as saying “I think some of the politicians we are hearing from now are the best argument in the world for retroactive abortions.” Crenshaw says now that those remarks were made “in jest.”

    Utah’s politicians aren’t laughing. They complain that Crenshaw should be put under scrutiny, too – for his involvement in an investment scandal in California in 1975.

    Crenshaw thinks it’s unfair when his opponents bring that up. `My company was a victim,” he says.

    The complicated case involved Crenshaw’s Gold and Silver Bullion Exchange Inc., whose 90 investors lost $366,000. Crenshaw says he himself was duped by a Colorado “con artist” who promised him $2 million profit and then failed to come up with the promised silver.

    Although he was originally charged with 30 felony counts, all but two of those charges were dismissed. He pleaded no contest to a charge of operating an unlicensed commodities exchange, and a charge of issuing a bad check for $30,000. The commodities charge, says Crenshaw, was a technical violation, because when he first began his business the commodities law was not on the books. He says the bounced check charge resulted from his lawyer’s advice to stop payment on a check he had written to a silver company he claims was owned by the Colorado con man.

    Crenshaw says he went through five years of “absolute hell” during this time. He says he ended up broke and divorced. He says his experiences with the law are why he now hates “injustice.” And it’s because he hates injustice, he says, that he is now fighting for The Little Guy. His opponents point to the irony that some of the investors who trusted him with their money in California were Little Guys too.

    Just a few years after his gold and silver problems, Crenshaw became a foot soldier in Howard Jarvis’s California tax insurgency, circulating petitions for Proposition 13. Crenshaw had grown up in California, where he attended Napa Valley High School. He graduated from Brigham Young University in marketing, later taught karate and became a radio talk show host, moved back to California, and then moved back to Utah in 1986.

    The once-portly Crenshaw has dieted off so much weight recently that he looks five or 10 years younger than he did when he began his tax crusade in 1987. He will not divulge his age but admits he is the grandfather of six.

    Disgruntled taxpayers have boosted Crenshaw’s radio ratings, and although it may be Merrill Cook they will vote for on Tuesday, it is Mills Crenshaw who is their buddy. No longer anonymous, he now has a difficult time going to the movies, he says, without folks coming up to him to tell him their stories.

    “I love these people,” he says.

  292. > When and why did the wearing belt knots on the side become mandatory? Was it indeed a rip-off of Mormon temple rituals?
    — Me

    Turns out that the belt on the side look comes, not from the Mormon temple rituals, but from the Kung Fu sash. Some systems even have men and women tie it on different sides.

    Video here goo.gl/drcswV

    The Tracy’s assertion that it was a rip-off of the Mormon temple rites, themselves a rip-off of the Mason’s ceremonies, turns out to be self-serving exaggeration (like so much in Kenpo).

  293. People are actually saying that Ed Parker could take on five guys armed with knives and pipes and he would beat them within seconds? With a UMP-45 at 50 feet maybe. Lol, this hero worship is laughable, people will believe the absolutely most absurd myth!

    • People are actually saying that Ed Parker could take on five guys armed with knives and pipes and he would beat them within seconds? — Chris

      Not only could he, they say, but that he did so on more than a half-dozen occasions and that if you question these feats of martial prowess then YOU must be delusional; after all, you never met the great man.

      Ed Parker has taken on a Cyrano de Bergerac status in the minds of Kenpoists; but instead killing 100 men with his sword, he beat his empty-handed and instead of a big nose, Parker just had a lousy haircut.

  294. Chris you met Mr. Parker?

  295. I have, and the very nature of your question exhibits exactly the stupidity of believing these crazy stories Chris is talikng about.

    • Mr. Libby,

      I tried to contact you on your Youtube channel. If you’re going to make more vids, I’m interested.

      If you’re interested in reaching Kenpo folk with them, then posting them on the KenpoTalk forum would be wise; however, there dozens of Mills Crenshaws will denounce you and challenge you to mortal combat and relatively few will be convinced no matter the video content.

      • I feel that Mills has so little credibility now that he is irrelevant. And even Steve Shaffer has come out with another response to my Clutching Feathers where he referred to Clutching Feathers. The whole presentation was disjointed and made little sense compared to his first arguments against my critique. The hard core Kenpo people have very little silid ground to stand on.
        Another issue is so many people feel that all martial artists should all be “spiritual” and never criticize another art. Well Bruce Lee did it, and we now have BAs Ruten and Joe Rogan jumping in. In a Paul Vunak video he shows a training hall of black belts and basically says “doesn’t this seem silly with what we know today?” And the answer is YES!!!! Thanks for the support.

  296. I will be making more videos in 3 to 4 days.

  297. I started with Ed Parker in 1972. I know Huk Planas, the Urquides brothers, were my referees in competition at The Long Beach Arena. I knew Frank Trejo, and Vic la Roux. Without their dedication and expert training I would have been dead long ago. They taught me how to defend myself. I will forever be in their debts. Ed Parker never said he made up the art, but he perfected it and was the best. RIP. Mr Ed Parker.

  298. Been training in Kenpo for several years and previous did Goju.
    Never took boxing, but feel that basic boxing hand techniques with Kenpo is a pretty solid combination for self-defense.
    As for Rogan…hell of a kicker.
    Bas and Paul legends.
    Ed Parker LEGENDARY!!!

  299. Harley Richards

    Wow this thread went on way tooooooooo long

  300. Harley Richards

    Actually I should add to that. Disrespecting a guy who’s long gone isn’t accomplishing much. I’ve studied and trained for close to 30 years but don’t consider myself very spiritual or philosophical for that matter. But for a bunch of guys in their 60’s to be talking shit and challenging each other to fight is pretty sad. Let it go gentlemen.

    • The thread indeed got heated, but it brought out plenty of insight
      •The story of how Gene LeBell came to accept the challenge to fight a boxer
      •The story from Milo Savage’s perspective (from Monfongo)
      •Confirmation from a 1st generation Black Belt that Parker claimed to have been in 7 fights against 4 or more armed attackers: this shows that Parker was personally telling tall tales and that they did not come from games of telephone afterwards
      •Confirmation that Parker backed down from a fight with a Kenpo black belt
      •Video debate/demos about certain Kenpo techniques and whether they’re akin to boxing
      •Videos of Ed Parker moving during both the prime of his life and in middle age and discussion about whether he was a prodigy or merely a gifted promoter.
      •Sr. Kenpoist and well-known author showed himself to be a dishonest buffoon
      •Discussion of the formalization of the EP KK system
      •Kenpo people were exposed to ideas from pragmatic systems

      My biggest epiphany from this thread: Parker, for all his fame, wasn’t good at Karate. I remember seeing a video of him (he died before I entered Kenpo) and noting to my teacher that his stances looked “different”. My teacher explained to me that Parker was just so good that his technique transcended traditional. Now, after the discussion of Parker’s personal traits, and others sharing my initial impressions of his videos, I see that my teacher was just blinded by hero worship into accepting that Parker’s sloppy motion was just the epitome of martial efficiency.

      I had long ago accepted that Karate was misguided in techniques and training methods, but still thought Parker was good at it. Now I see that my initial impression was correct—decent brown belts move better than the Sr. Grandmaster!

      You’re right that we could’ve gone w/o the challenges & insults, but the resulting insights were worth reading through them. EPAK is a popular system and people rely on it for protection and fitness; this makes it, and its founder, a legitimate subject of discussion no matter how long Parker has been dead.

  301. Steve Shaffer

    Contrary to what ‘Former Kenpo’ has posted on this thread, the American kenpo by Ed Parker that I train in, begins and ends with basics.
    Basics is a major division in kenpo. The other two being self-defense, and the third being freestyle. Basics is so important that without a solid foundation, little progress is made learning kenpo. Everything hinges on the student having a grasp of basics. Good stances, strikes, blocks, parries, kicks, punches, all flow from a proper foundation of basics. Your forms, techniques and sets will look terrible without solid basics.
    Ed Parker thought so highly of basics that he devoted a good deal of space in his Volume 2 of the series entitled Infinite Insight into Kenpo. If you’ll take the time to read the chapters 4 & 5, that are devoted to basics you begin to see how important stances other basics, help provide a platform for excellent forms, and great self- defense. Ed Parker wrote, “The importance of basics, cannot be over emphasized”. (p.31 Vol 2, Infinite Insights).
    The kenpo system insists that basic stances are so important, the system even has a couple of forms devoted to just stances called Stance Set 1 & 2. In conclusion, just the opposite is true regarding the criticisms of kenpo basics.
    In case you don’t have Vol 2, here’s the table of contents.
    Chapter 1…….Introduction
    Chapter 2……History
    Chapter 3……Physical Preparedness
    Chapter 4…..Basics
    Chapter 5…..Division of Basics
    Chapter 6…..Stances (p. 76 has Ed Parker checking on the height of the knee to floor as the kenpo student is in a wide kneel)
    Volume 3 of Infinite Insights, further develops the concept of basics. Chapters 2-5 of Vol 3, provide excellent material to understanding how basic stances and strikes and the proper execution of them, help the student gain better understanding on how to perform the kenpo techniques.
    My initial kenpo instructor was so adamant about having a solid basic foundation, that it was the number 1 consideration before anything else. It was rule #1. ’Establish your base’ which meant for us to have a good stance, a solid foundation to in which to launch our techniques.
    If you’ve been taught the cycle of considerations, you’ll recall that a strong stance leads to a good defense, and a strong offense, and so forth. Having the attitude of a warrior is critical, then know your environment, followed by a good position (your stance), which weapons to use, blocks, know your range, how to maneuver, and lastly, hit your target. All of these considerations are nothing more than applied basics.

    • Contrary to what ‘Former Kenpo’ has posted on this thread, the American kenpo by Ed Parker that I train in, begins and ends with basics. — Steve Shaffer

      After re-reading my posts, I can confirm that never did I say that EPKK has no basics. Nor would I say such a thing, for it’s difficult to think of anything from keyboarding to karate to surfing to driving that doesn’t have basics.

      If you’re referring to my saying that Ed Parker wasn’t that good at karate then mea culpa. Watch a few videos of him on Youtube (use Chrome and set it at 1/4 speed) and see if you’re still in awe.

  302. Dear Former Kenpo;
    My discussion on basics was an answer to your implication against Ed Parker’s performance. It’s not just you I’m responding too, but anyone who reads yet stays on the sidelines that maybe interested in this subject. Your approach is that if you tear down and disparage Parker, then by association the system is torn down. I reject that theory. A few posted videos doesn’t cut it compared to his decades of work and teaching. If you’re referring to the Lucille Ball video from the 60’s, you should’ve realized that Parker is doing all the work to make the actors look good in the entire segment. Had you been on set back then, I would have cautioned you to stay out of his way.
    You may want to view his fight scene from Pink Panther, (1975) taking out the ‘assassins’ as Mr. Chong, a great scene that demonstrates not only Mr. Parker’s power, but his basics as well. There’s many more out there, just search using ‘Ed Parker Demo’, and they all get queued up for you.
    It’s amusing that people who nothing about Ed Parker kenpo, think they can comment seriously on Ed Parker while never actually taking the time to seek out competent instruction from the many top instructors that have trained with Mr. Parker, who are still actively working all over the country, either at the local school level or at the national seminar/camp level.
    Kenpo has grown and evolved tremendously over the decades. Even Ed Jr. in a article in Black Belt, discussed how Ed Parker evolved. The Ed Parker of the ’60s, was not the Ed Parker of the 70’s, who was not the Ed Parker of the ’80s. Those students who were part of those decades were part of an evolving system that continues to this day.

  303. Steve, your basics are so “good” that you cannot even handle a basic hair grab. Maybe someday this fog you are in will go away. I am in the process of posting another video qand I aggress how to deal with three one-handed hair grabs.
    You are not oggd enough to wear a black belt and vertainly fit to teach, and I say that on the video.
    Whenevr you are confronted about EPAK you always run to manuals and termino;ogy. Face it- I would have slaughterd when I was a 15 year o;d green belt. So just as Ed was never fir to wear his rank, nor are you.

  304. Kenpo Student

    As a student of the martial arts for 30 years now, and a Kenpo student for the past 18 years, I find it unfortunate that in 2015, we’re still trying to tear down each other because of the path of martial art that we chose. I respect Mr. Libby and his point of view, I respect Mr. Shaffer and his point of view, I respect Mr. Crenshaw, Mr. Bleecker, and everyone else’s point of view that has posted here. You all have valid points. What I don’t understand is the negativity (other than the personal conflict between Mr. Libby and Mr. Parker, which I believe is part of his rationale for not liking Kenpo, but I could be wrong).

    From what I read above, Mr. Libby feels that the majority of Kenpo is useless. His original stance is that he didn’t want to see other people make a mistake and study Kenpo and have it fail them if they ever need it (I respectfully disagree). Mr Libby also has a personal issue with Mr. Parker. Others have stated that Kenpo does work for them. Some believe that Mr. Parker was a fraud, others believe that Mr. Parker was a genius and a good man. From there (or there abouts) the personal attacks began.

    From my journey of learning the martial arts, I would like to share what I have learned, and my apologies in the beginning for sounding Mr. Miyagi-ish because I know what I am about to say is going to be the cheesiest of cheesey. I have learned that being proficient in the martial arts has little to do with the art, and a lot to do with the student (after all, the human body can only perform so many types of kicks, punches, and blocks). If you studied Kenpo and feel that it won’t work for you, then maybe Kenpo isn’t the path for you. Maybe Jiu-jitsu, or Shotokan, or Muay Thai might suit you better. It’s all about how you, the student, trains (again, I know I’m preaching to the choir, but bare with me). For me personally, I love Kenpo. It’s in my blood. It’s worked for me in the streets because my instructor refuses to let us train half assed, and I as the student refuse to hold my arm out there while my partner performs a ton of strikes on me (save for the what-if teaching phase). If my instructor catches his students doing that, those students have to go outside to the parking lot and do 25 pushups on their knuckles while every other student stands there and counts. As you can imagine, it doesn’t happen often at all.

    I have also learned that any one style isn’t the be all and end all of the martial arts, so for the past 2 years I have cross trained in BJJ and Muay Thai. I received my fourth and final stripe on my white belt in BJJ, and I’m having a great time with it. I am choosing to learn as many different styles as I can so that my knowledge isn’t limited (paraphrasing Bruce Lee).

    My final thought that I would like to share with you is two sayings that my Kenpo instructor often uses. The first is “Fear none, respect all”. That phrase is loaded and it isn’t just about the martial arts, it’s about life. The second is that the we should view the martial arts like it’s a mountain. We are all trying to climb this mountain to reach it’s peak (becomming the best that we can be). On this mountain are different paths. One path is called Kenpo, the other Jiu-jitsu, the next Shotokan, and so on and so on. All of these paths will lead us to the top and we’re not bound to any one particular path. What we are bound by is the respect we should have for other’s choice of paths (regardless if we feel that path will “work” or not). We are brothers and sisters in this journey, and we need to look out for each other in a positive and respectful way, not tear each other down. That is the spirit of the martial arts.

    Again, my apologies for the drug store psychology as I know most of you are my elders (I’m 38, started the martial arts around 8).

  305. Libby,
    Right on cue…a reply against basics and more personal attacks on me and my 30+years in martial arts. Yes, I’ve acquired an extensive library of martial art books, magazines, manuals, seminar notes from many notable instructors who I have personally benefited from. Please go back to your cave.

  306. The line I keep hearing is it is not the art, but the student- sort of true. If I take student on a 1 to 10 scale who is a 7 and put him with say Paul Vunak and put a student who is a 9 physically in Kenpo the Vunak 7 will clobber the Kenpo 9. The efficacy of the art will greatly affect the outcome in the street, and that is where it counts.
    Now I will go back to my cave. But in my cave I teach proven concepts and not theoretical hyperbole and bullshit.

  307. Interesting theory.

    • Not a theory Steve. Unlike you I can fight and teach. I do not waste my time with bullshit forms and dead techniques on stationary people. A man who would not accept my challenge and proved himself a craven coward should simply shut tge fuck up.

  308. Read a lot of this. Info. I am nobody special at all. Just a guy who spent of 13 plus years taking the art we call Kenpo. For what its worth, I hold all of you in high regard. Without you this art would never progress or be passed down. I wish I could have met Mr. Parker. I understand Mr. Libby when you say some techniques will not work in a practical fight as its hard to get some of them off. Therefore, You use basic perries and punches kicks ect. However, Kenpo does work….I have used it. I didn’t freeze. That’s why we are all taught many different ways to get out of one attack. If one way does not work another technique will. After all these are just letters to an alphabet. We have to make the sentences during combat. By the way im a Tracys guy. Im from NY
    Thanks Dennis

  309. Basics, stamina, strength, and cohones-BAD ASS.
    Kenpo is ok, but Kajukenbois better.
    Don’t care about Parker, but respect his pioneering the arts.
    Better old school legends in NYC.
    Peter Urban, Gary Alexander, Pete Siringano,
    and many others.

    • What about a guy named aaron Banks? Was he for real? I used to hear his name thrown around alot but only saw him in the movirr “The Mechanic” with Charles Bronson.

      • I don’t think Banks was in that movie with Bronson. A check on Google might assist you. I’m surprised a man of your age and MA experience living in the USA hasn’t heard of Banks, maybe you never read MA magazines such as Black Belt and a few others? He was basically a showman promoting karate. Got his belts through late Peter Urban.

  310. I agree with kenpo student & balogh. It is about the student & how they react in a real world situation. All these kenpo elders helped shape the fighting arts we know of today. But as one poster said earlier kenpo from the 60’s is different from 70’s, 80 ‘ s 90 etc. My kempo instructor Sifu John Taynton in Brisbane Australia (look him up on Google Shaolin Kempo) often said MA should evolve not revolve. And how about the preservation of the art? Forms & other training methods are not useless they are part of an overall system & hold significant traditional & cultural meaning. When we bow in to training session we first bow to the masters & founders of kempo which is to say the Shaolin masters through to Ed Parker & so on. I doubt anyone is going apply a shaolin tiger tail punch in a real world situation so does that mean we shouldnt practice it? It was part of Shaolin basics along with many other punches, kicks, stances etc. Also self defense was one part of a complete system, definitely not the be all & end all. In fact my school split in half because our Shihan believed our self defense system didnt need any tweaking and we had ” Enough on our plate learning the system as it was”. Well if we all thought like that we’d never move forward. I appreciate mr Libby’s concern about putting people at risk, I to share this concern but an individual should be able to make a choice as to what is appropriate for the individual. Some people are stupid, there’s nothing you can do about that. In my case I was overweight & needed to do something posetive, I did a lot of research & decided Kempo was for me because I didn’t just want learn to fight, I wanted to improve my life & Kempo helped me do that. As one poster said ‘Fear none but respect all’ is a great self defense. As a side note I actually gave up Kempo to pursue Chen style Tai Chi Chuan because I felt & proved that I could fight just fine with the base that Kempo provided. Also interestingly enough Bruce Lee was developing skills & heading down a path that Chen style Tai Chi Chuan had been doing for over 500 years. Check out Wang Hai Jun who is Grandmaster Cheng Chen Lei’s top student, he took real life challenges for the grandmaster for over twenty years. Several eyewitnesses attest he rarely had to throw more than one punch to finish an opponent, after all Tai Chi Chuan means grand ultimate fist. Respect to all Martial Arts, at the end of day if your still moving your doing something right.

  311. I was curious…. I used to take lessons from an old kenpo guy, I guess he used to be called sterling peacock. Anyways he related a story that he and end went to a boxing gym one time, were end did get in the ring with a boxer and was knocked out. Sterling said that he guessed the boxer didn’t know he was missing with…

    • Assuming that
      1. “end” = Ed Parker
      2. It was the boxer who got knocked out
      ????

      We’re to believe that a chubby, middle-aged man who never sparred, was a nobody in Hawaii, and whose pre-set techniques were pure slop got into a boxing ring and KTFO’d a trained fighter?

      That’s far more believable than “end” Parker’s own tales of beating 4 or more armed assailants on 7 occasions all in a matter of seconds; still not bloody likely, but nevertheless far more believable.

      As a general rule, you should disbelieve the legends that spring up around Ed Parker, and other venerated figures. I heard one fool claim that the Gracies withdrew their $100K challenge from Ed Parker because they were in such awe of the Great Sr. Grandmaster from Honolulu— pure rubbish. See what happened when a fit Kenpo man took the challenge (link below).
      goo.gl/d6LraO

      Here is a demo by End and his students. Note that he moves the worst of any of them, and it’s not like the students moved that well either.
      goo.gl/DX4ggB

    • Ramon R Welborn

      Sterling Peacock changed his name to Matt David because of being part of a religious cult. (there are online news papers regarding this). Anyway, I took lessons from Matt David in Spokane Washington in the late 70s and early 80s. I saw him being the sparring partner for the then northwest heavy weight boxing champ – so I know Matt was able to box. (Matt David claimed to be a golden gloves boxer). Matt told me , and I quote “Parker couldn’t fight his way out of a paper bag”. I know this is hearsay but, seeing Matt has passed away I thought I’d share it. Also, Matt began training and learning from Jim Harrison (while I was teaching full-time for him) and changed his ways to Harrison’s style combined with boxing.

  312. Sorry about that. Meant Ed, the person knocked out was Parker. I should know better than to type while half asleep. The boxer just didn’t realize how dangerous Parker was supposed to be. Also Sterling started kenpo in Pasadena in 1958, so this happened in the early 60’s and Parker wouldn’t have been middle aged yet. But in any case Parker lost. I don’t think Sterling was lying.

  313. Curious as to the video ‘Former Kenpo’ suggested be watched, I viewed it, and it’s Ed Parker’s Ireland visit while on a local TV show. Contrary to looking bad the students looked fine given their level of knowledge and being careful to not slip on the studio floor. Ed Parker also was careful about footing. It was a scripted demo. I guess no ones happy unless someone’s sent to the hospital.
    Also, there’s many old timers who have trained with and know about Ed Parker’s abilities from his early days. Seek these guys out and get first hand accounts of Ed Parker’s history. Plenty has has been written documenting Ed Parker’s history which I’ve posted months ago for anyone to confirm.
    The core curriculum techniques are patterns to get a student who in all likely hood has never been in a fight, an ideal approach to a given self-defense problem be it a grab, push, or punch. As the student progresses he/she moves to what if scenarios, and is challenged with learning to think and adapt quickly to changing circumstances.
    I suggest readers pick up Ed Parker’s Infinite Insights vol 1-5 to gain some background to American Kenpo.

  314. I have taken lessons from some senior’s, I left the organised art just before my second black test. I found that i couldn’t pull off the tech’s etc against resistance and I was usually one of the best guys in the room. It’s a fun system to practice but to be perfectly honest it is more paper tiger/kata dancers than actual fighters. I could go on for hours but that wouldn’t do much good. I just wish you guys would stop using the catch phrase of ” the ultimate in un armed self defense” because it really isn’t.

  315. Brandon,
    Your inability to be successful in Kenpo training rests on you. Had you amped up your energy based on the energy applied to you, the tech might’ve worked. I suppose you should’ve gone into full contact mode but that would’ve narrowed your training partners since they would be recovering from sustained injuries. I guess now that you’re doing something different congrats! You’ve reached the point of what Kenpo is all about — Quick, accurate and intense application of self defense. Your experience reminds me of a saying: ” before I learned karate a punch was a punch, a kick was just a kick. Then after after some training a punch became more than a punch, a kick more than a kick. Then after many more years of training a punch was just a punch, a kick was just a kick”. In other words, all your training leads you back to the beginning. Samurai called it a zen state of mushin. Having no mind, a state of calmness. You simply move. On second thought, I fault your Kenpo instructor for not understanding how to bridge the gap between the ideal and the what-if level. You quit too early when you noticed that things don’t anyways work. Don’t blame Kenpo if you couldn’t figure out answers.

    • Your inability to be successful in Kenpo training rests on you. — Steve Shaffer

      Rubbish– Kenpo doesn’t work because it can’t work because the moves cannot be pulled off on a resisting opponent. Karate blocks, checks, self-slaps, etc. are dandy on someone in a karate studio, but otherwise they’re worthless.

      Did Zane Frazier lose in UFC 1 because he, an IKC champion, couldn’t hit a block? What about the Jeff Newton, a student of Bob White, not being able to make it out of the 1st round of his UFC fight? Are they “unable to make Kenpo work” because of incompetent instruction and / or personal failure (like you claimed of Brandon)?

      When an Aikidoist can’t grab someone’s wrist and throw him head over heels is it because his basics suck or because Aikido can’t be made to work outside a dojo?

      What about Tai Chi? Certainly it will work if only its adherents performed it correctly? After all, wasn’t Grandmaster Sumthin the Invincible undefeated in so many gong sau matches?

      Would you agree Aikido or Tai Chi can fail because they’re illogical? (That one’s not rhetorical.)

      If yes, would it also be possible that Kenpo fails in combat because its moves are also illogical? If no, can we assume that all systems are combat worthy if only it’s adherents were not failures and / or had incompetent instruction?

  316. To former kenpo. Did u even read what steve shaffer wrote? Kenpo self defense is a training method to help transition to real fighting. In reality you to adapt to survive. A real fight never looks like a pre arranged set of moves. Self defense sets are just a vehicle to get you where your going, in a fight you have to transcend what you have learned cos as steve said a punch is a punch & a kick is a kick no matter what style you train in. If your in a real fight it comes down to timing, accuracy & power. You may hate the kenpo system & Ed Parker but his legacy will be remembered for generations to come. Why not offer something posetive instead of trying to tear down a dead man. Even if he wasn’t that great a practitioner, he still helped America & the world appreciate martial arts. As Bruce Lee said you should strive for form with formlessness. You obviously know nothing about tai chi cos although it’s a long road it really is about delivering the most efficient strike with the most power you can deliver. Anyone can throw a punch from any system they all have merit you just have to find the one that’s right for you as individual.

  317. Dear FK
    You throw around styles and people to make your point that Kenpo is rubbish. However assuming you have two arms and legs as I do then it’s a question of application. Which is my point. If I side kick your knee joint and tear your ACL, and call it a Kenpo Side Snap kick (Leaping Crane) and you call it a good ol’ stomp and tear me up, what the hell difference does it make? Do you see my point? It’s the practitioner applying force coupled with mass against a target. Kenpo is really nothing more than applied physics as are other systems. Aikido does work if applied correctly and out of the ideal training level. A opponent is resisting because he’s still mentally engaged. No ones going to willingly let someone apply a lock. A well placed strike followed by the lock would be a answer in that case. But not always. More strikes may be needed. You see that in Kenpo all the time. Even the great Larry Hartsell wrote a book on locks and called it Jeet Kune Do. Most of the moves were strikes followed by locks. Kenpo does the same thing. Crossing Talon is a cross wrist grab defense. To learn the mechanics a training partner allows you to be successful, then greater resistance is added to approach actual fighting, maybe it becomes a grab-punch, maybe you get the lock in but can’t apply the pressure on the elbow joint, what if what if. A good instructor helps the student explore these ideas. But in the beginning everything works according to plan.
    You got caught up in the clownish razzmatazz of self slaps ala Larry Tatum and his version of Kenpo, and miss the principle of simply keeping your hands up. Kenpo in reality can be brutal as my side kick example illustrates.
    Trust me, I get that techniques don’t work on resisting attackers. One has to be hitting hard to tranquilize them. I’ve tried to do Crashing Wings many times and it failed, simply because I wasn’t hitting him. That doesn’t negate the principle of leverage taught in the technique. The answer is to add insert strikes followed by the takedown. And if you can’t get the leg behind the attackers’ you do something else.
    It boils down to tools and targets man. The techniques are just road maps in the learning process.

    • Dear Steve,
      I believe that Larry’s book was called “Entering to Trapping to Grappling” and was considered as another art to be added, but was not in itself JKD. I believe that is why he started the Jun Fan Grappling Association.
      I also have a rather hard time with the word “physics” in your response. A concept like “vibrational transfer” has zero validity when it comes to physics. The concept of the “rebounding principle” is also not based in real physics as opposed to a “concept” from Ed and others with little science to back it up.
      You have also mentioned that some people verify stories about Ed Parker. Mills Crenshaw, who I proved was hardly telling the truth. Ron Chapel with the imaginary PhD in an imaginary major? Dr. Tigi Maatali with his fake ice breaks (he cored the center and one time the ice collapsed before he did the break and I personally witnessed his assistants using ice picks to greatly weaken the ice)? And “Dr. Tigi Maatali” is not a doctor. Although you did not merntion some pf these people I use it to point out that there is a lot of BS in the arts.
      I have videos out. Everybody seemed to be daring me to do them. Now there is this complete lack of videos of Ed, sort of a deafening silence when it comes to proof of ed’s abilities. And although the students you mentioned in Ireland may not have been great, it hardly explains Ed’s own lack of technique and one might say buffooninh attempt at a technique.
      Steve, it’s been too long! I hope all is well with you in Leon County Florida.

  318. I gave kenpo a pretty good try it was my religion for over 20 years. I do not fault my instructors how can they teach a system that they themselves can’t really use. I was amazed when i was a brown belt I went into a different school and totally different system and took some lessons. The funny thing was that in the beginners class there wasnt a student who had been there longer than six months, and i kept telling myself that I was going to kick these guys butts, they dont know anything, they are just begginers right? But amazingly I kept having to pick myself up off the floor. Again I guess they just didn’ know who i was supposed to be! I loved kenpo and still do. In regards to concepts and principles kenpo is second to none it gives a great many models and formulas to better understand the internal working of a fight. But it just doesn’t work against real attacks street speed. It is my favorite Martial Art (emphasis on ART) but it is not a practical fighting system. Just curious do you cross train in say boxing/or bjj?

    • Dear Brandon,
      I know that Sterling Peacock was one od Ed Parker’s students. I also think that he started before me. I have never met him.
      I have a hard time believing Ed would get in the ring, but I also must say that the outcome you mention makes sense. Kenpo vs boxer and the Kenpo guy gets KILLED!!!!!
      If you do not mind me asking this, but did you find that the techniques felt shall we say “jammed?” As if due to the fact that the initial impact did little and that left you without room to move? Did you also find that many of the strikes did not work as you were told they would? And did you also find that the blocking system was just too slow for real world fighting?
      I would appreciate your inputs.
      Thanks,
      Robert B. Libby

  319. If i may humbly add my 2 cents to brandon, i assume ur query was to steve shaffer, I totally respect your point of view & have crosstrained with many different people of different styles & point of view & have learned a great deal. In my former kempo school we were taught to take on what was useful & discard the useless. I personally live in a fairly safe city (brisbane australia) I haven’t come up against knives or multiple attackers. But I have had to sort out a couple of bullies successfully using kempo principles. I guess to each his own, I would like say to brandon I think it’s great you’ve found something that works for you. My first Kempo Shihan used to say to us ” if u can find a better martial art then go and do it” I personally told him I had & good luck. At that point I’d been training in Chen style tai chi for nearly two years in secret cos it was against their rules & their tai chi was a load of crap as well and told him so. To be honest if a person really wants hardcore real life self defense sometimes you to have to do your research to find wat it is that works for you. I have heard of so many former kempoists who have branched off into other areas because kempo gave them the foundation in principles to do so. I remember one instructor who’s name escapes me but he was/is world renowned & he specialized in knife work, this fellow did seminars around the world & advised many law enforcement agencies including American special forces & Russian sptetznaz , funny thing bout this guy was that he held his knife workshops in local abbotoirs so you could see jus what damage a knife does to flesh. I guess wat I’m getting at is he was a kempo guy till his path led him elsewhere. My respect to you brandon.

    • Could it be James Keating? He was taught I believe by Skip Hancock and James is great with blades. He has two things I know of called Comtech and The riddle of Steel. I have never worked with him but have used his videos.
      But I have never heard of him teaching in a slaughterhouse, but sounds like him somehow. I know that he used to have students train with baby oil on the arms as it is like fresh blood, or so I was told by some who worked with him.
      Robert B. Libby

  320. Robert. Sterling is now dead. He died of a heart attack I was told. But as to your questions regarding feeling jammed and speed issues etc. Yes I felt the same way but also noted that if I didn’t regulate my force the guy really wouldn’t be there for the following strikes. Take five swords for instance if I were to really penetrate and stick the guy with the first handsword he would usually be driven back and out of range thus causing me to alter the technique, but that is what kenpo is really all about anyway (at least for me) I found the most fun in finding ways to use the equation formula to fill the gaps. But my problem was the fact that they have to many tools in the tool box kinda thing. You don’t have time to think about what you should be doing because by the time you do you already should have. The system does incorporate methods to make everything more useful, such as family groupings, master key techs and basics, web of knowledge etc. But I found myself hard pressed to find people that wanted to practice in a meaningful way. They were only interested in getting the next belt and not actual proficiency. In mma and bjj schools the people are more interested in kicking your ass and not so much rank. Kenpo just needs to upgrade its training methods.

  321. Dear Former Kenpo, only bad talk. No Style can win a fight. Sounds like you never trained.

    • Jim, actually style can win a fight. If one system is just intrinsically better than it gives you an edge. Look at the legendary fight between “Gentleman” Jim Corbett and John L. Sullivan. Corbett had changed the footwork patterns and body movements of traditional boxing and won the day. It was very much this new “style” that gave Corbett the victory.
      Look at the Gracie fight against a Kenpo black belt. It was the srtyle that won the fight. Your argument is very commonly used in dojos to try and keep students and to derail real investigation into the analysis of fighting.

  322. Mr. Libby you are correct about the Hartsell book title. It’s a book on locks as a subset of his Jeet Kune Do using the entering ideas of JKD to trap and lock.
    As to physics, I was on the receiving end of a front kick in class that connected with my ribs. It didn’t matter what label one puts on the kick, my rib cracked and it took about 5 weeks to finally be pain free. Force=mass X acceleration. That’s the physics in talking about. Like your left hook smashing into a jaw!

  323. I hear a lot about the Kenpo alphabet. But your brain and body cannot use that much knowledge that quickly- sort of a sensory overload.
    So was Robert Sterling the knife guy you meant?
    Thanks

  324. I agree. 90% of the time you will never get a full technique out for various reasons, But I do think you use fragments of things you learn. I don’t think of things I have been thought are gold but merely suggestions, I know we use them to get to the next level or belt. But, as we all know combat is alive always changing. no trained fighter will stand there and let you hit them or give you their center line.

  325. I really can’t remember the knife guys name cos this was several years ago but at the time a kempo school in Sydney Australia was hosting him & he was doing seminars & workshops around Australia in abbotoirs so that really got our attention. The research I did on him was that he’d left kempo to study under a filipino eskrima & weapons grandmaster & had traveled the world advising various military & law enforcement in close quarters combat. This was nearly 10 years ago mind you, and my Google searches hav come up empty. I agree with brandon that Kempo needs keep up but that can be said for any style. One thing kempo does lack is effective knife & weapon self defense, Jeff Speakman had some cool knife stuff in some of his seminars our school attended but it was all quite fancy.

  326. What do you do when the “fragment” you use breaks your hand as it was incorrect from the start? How about a photograph of Ed Parker Jr, blocking a club strike with his forearm? How about Striking Serpent’s Head where the reverse back knmuckle is useless and leaves you open for a head butt, and literally invites the aggressor to head butt you? Many of these techniques actually put you in a worse position than you started, start with an ineffective strike, or use strikes that will injure you by using it ie Reverse Tiger’s Mouth, rising back knuckle to the chin, 1 o’clock punch, etc…

  327. You can prefix the back knuckle strike with a right inward heel palm/wrist strike to the maxillary hinge. That could serve to tenderize your opponent. Curious as to what you think is a more realistic response?

    • Brandon, what defense are you talking about? I am very leary with back knuckles. I have seen too many hand injuries from them. The palm heel to the jaw sounds fine. Practice it on a heavy bag like a hook punch.
      I just got the bad news today that from a motorcycle accident I have to have reconstructive surgery of my right shoulder. It should be arthroscopic so maybe 3 to 4 weeks off. But feel free to ask questions and I will try to help.

  328. I guess no ones happy unless someone’s sent to the hospital. — Steve Shaffer

    I clearly stated the critique that Parker’s motion was sloppy. It was. What was that little hand twirling around the belly near the end? The fact that no one got hurt during the embarrassing demo had nothing to do with what I said. Some KK folk move well without hurting anyone and I’ll freely admit it.

    You have a talent for straw men: last time I critiqued Parker’s motion you claimed that I said Kenpo had no basics, then spent 1,000 words refuting it, when I never said such a stupid thing.

    Ed Parker did not move well. Not sending people to the hospital and writing about stances in his books doesn’t change that.

    many old timers who have trained with and know about Ed Parker’s abilities from his early days. Seek these guys out and get first hand accounts of Ed Parker’s history. — Steve Shaffer

    Mills Crenshaw shared such a firsthand account when he told us about how Ed Parker beat 4 or more armed opponents on more than a half-dozen occasions. Parker’s history is one of grandstanding before hero-worshippers eager to believe his claptrap.

    Moreover, if you assume I haven’t learned from 1st generation BBs you’re wrong, and even more wrong if you think any of your venerated masters would last 5 minutes in a MMA match.

    You throw around styles and people to make your point that Kenpo is rubbish.

    Whether KK works is an empirical question. I’ve provided examples where it didn’t work for two of the best KK practitioners. Had KK absolutely dominated stand-up fighting that would be evidence that it works.

    The only situations where I’ve heard – never seen – of it working is when KK people brag about beating up some drunk in a bar, inevitably KTFO’ing the obstreperous drunkard. Why beating up drunks is the epitome of martial prowess is beyond me, but I figure Kenpoists must be the 2nd leading cause of blackouts in bars with all the drunken attackers they KTFO.

    Aikido does work if applied correctly and out of the ideal training level.

    Your defense of it is that it’ll work if you put an opponent out on his feet boxing style such that you can do anything you wanted to him? Not much of a defense of Aikido, but Aikido is indefensible; the sheer stupidity and mysticism of it are why we haven’t seen a single Steven Seagal style throw outside a scripted demo.
    Whether it works is an empirical question and the answer is clear.

    Dear Former Kenpo, only bad talk. No Style can win a fight. Sounds like you never trained. Jim

    Bad talk = judging your religion by evidence.
    As far as your never training accusation, that’s not a refutation of what I said, but I have and can say that when working MMA, you’ll NEVER block a punch, dodge the bears, kiss the peaches, choke the snake, or any other fantasies you have.

    It is my favorite Martial Art (emphasis on ART) but it is not a practical fighting system. Brandon

    KK is a lot like pro wrestling: it can look really cool if your partner is in on the act, but will not work IRL.

    If MA instructors were honest enough to tell their students this there wouldn’t be a problem . . . the students could determine whether they wanted to practice putting on a show or to go study a pragmatic system.

    My experience was similar to yours in that having a KK BB didn’t help much in MMA, but a sportive background sure did.

  329. Robert I was referring to your critique of the back knuckle strike in striking serpents head as being ineffective. I personally found that I could achieve effective power with that strike. I already have very effective responses to this particular attack personally. I’m not asking for a lesson. If I can’t figure it out some thirty years and multiple black belts later I might as well just give up and go play with my crayons. I was just curious as to what you consider a better response.

  330. Dear FK,
    While you do not see my response on basics as necessary, I’m also posting for others who may not be in the fray, but are reading this blog nonetheless. As far as Striking Serpents Head is concerned (in response to Mr. Libby), the point of the technique is to hit the attacker who has grabbed you. The attacker’s arms are occupied with hugging you, in this option your hands are free. The reverse back knuckle is directed at the mastoid behind the ear, it’s not meant to be the home run strike, but a filler move as you pull the attacker’s head back for the half fist strike to the exposed throat. If you understand the different ways to alter a technique, I encourage prefixes such as ear slap (cupping the hands) to blow out the ear drums, or striking with a reverse ridge hand, or middle knuckle strikes below the arm pits then move up to the head or grab him and hook his leg as he lets go, and trip him backwards. or strike with the right palm heel as Mr. Libby has agreed with. Or, you could skip the strike altogether and simply reach up and pull back hard on the head hooking inside the eye sockets, and down to compress the spine.
    The right hand is supposed to be up and guarding against the possible head butt. In fact, you could insert your own head butt if you deem it necessary. All the strikes you add to the mix are designed to get the attacker to let go. Contrary to the flaws described, by dropping your weight, and turning your waist with the reverse strike, you negate the grab somewhat as you strike. The technique is essentially a what if option should the attacker get inside your defenses. The goal is to move before the attacker locks in for a lifting action, or to trip you up, which opens up another discussion on what to do if you lose your footing.

  331. Once again Steve Shaffer has successfully explained how kenpo self defense should be applied to all the anti kenpo self defense critics & wat if scenarios they keep bringing up. The principles cannot be refuted only an individuals application can. All the kenpo detractors in this blog continually do, is bring up certain self defense scenarios & why think they won’t work. It’s funny although the haters talk about specific self defenses I haven’t heard anyone talk about core principles like cancelling the width or height, or point of origin etc not working. And to former kenpo who seems to think kenpo karate doesn’t work outside the dojo or mma & cites Zane Frazier & Jeff Newtons failure as his example. Well how bout Chuck Liddell then, he did pretty good didn’t he? Chucks timing, accuracy & power was like poetry in motion. And isn’t his coach John hackleman a former karate champion? What about Lyoto Machida? Also a master of timing accuracy & power. Oh wait, wasn’t Georges st pierre a karate guy too? George took on what was useful & surpassed all in his wake. So it seems to me some of the best fighters to ever enter the cage & be honored in the hall if fame honed their skills in a dojo. Mr Fk if you were a former kk bb you really sound like a negative close minded person, no wonder it wouldn’t work for you cos for all your arguments against kenpo there’s someone who has used kenpo or theyr other chosen martial art succesfully.

    • Okay- Steve has actually said little if anything And his track record is pretty bad. He stuck to Clutching Feathers and then in the end said “I guess it isn’t practical.” And as referenced before why was he afraid to face me with him getting all the odds. And then acted like a scared little school girl and said If I showed my face he would have the Leon County sheriff arrest me. And I was coming alone. So he and say 20 other people couldn’t handle me?
      As to cancelling the height and width is pure pseudoscience. When that is performed the height and width are perhaps lowered for a fraction of a second. Sure they are done with somebody playing along, but not in a real fight.
      Why do you people always throw in Chuck Liddel? He has never used a Kenpo or Kempo technique in MMA. Chuck is, to put it simply- a great striker and TOUGH GUY with great take down defense. When do you use take down defenses like his in Kenpo- When do you hook in Kenpo? And a key complaint of mine for decades. So they started in Karate. That sure as hell isn’t where they ended up. I still say glowing things about Scott Loring, Norm Pattiz, Paul Dalton, Bob Eisele, Albert Cornejo, and others. These were important people to me and they taught me a lot about life I might also add that we were trained in a very different way and did virtually no forms. We also did few techniques- we fought and did basics, Most of todays Kenpo practitioners would not last a day in the 60s as we actually got hit. That is why the 60s were referred to as the “blood and guts days of Karate.”
      I also love how you say “haters.” To brainwashed people anybody that dares to disagree, or as some would say, think, are branded as haters.
      Why do you still do the side-headlock escape (short form 3) with the palm up during the groin strike? It was shown 50 years ago that it could not be done and strikes the lower abdomen. In the same technique it was also shown that the double hitting technique (groin and back) has no power and is useless, yet Kenpo people still do it that way.
      I have also seen a reference to Ed Parker getting his ass kicked immediately by a boxer. That hardly supports the other stories told, and it is by a known Kenpo black belt.
      I am getting ready for a right shoulder operation as it seems to have turned out from a serious motorcycle accident that I have torn ligaments and tendons in my right shoulder (the MRI is tomorrow but my surgeon is quite sure as I cannot raise my arm). When I have rehabilitated the right shoulder I will be doing videos like crazy. I am so tired of frauds like Steve Shaffer in MA that I could puke. I really want people to realize how hard they are getting screwed by all the McDojos and high ranking frauds out there. And this is not just Kenpo. This is coming from all styles. So please watch Taking the Woo out of Mrtial arts, a two part panel on youtube.The PLEASE start looking around your school, analyze the techniques you are being taught, and realize that if you are not being hit, thrown to the ground, choked, and put to the test your school is crap.

    • Mr Fk if you were a former kk bb you really sound like a negative close minded person, — Chen Style

      The true measure of close-mindedness is how completely someone rejects feedback from reality; such as the creationists who insist the earth is 6,000 years old, the alt med quacks who say vitamin C cures AIDS and cancer, and the martial artists who reject the results of actual combat.

      no wonder it wouldn’t work for you cos for all your arguments against kenpo there’s someone who has used kenpo or theyr other chosen martial art succesfully.

      Kenpo always seems to work in “da street” — I’ve never seen it, but have often heard so from Kenpoists who seem to KTFO assailants regularly– but can’t seem to replicate the results under repeatable conditions; i.e. in a combat sport.

      Methods do matter as does the means of training them, otherwise medicine could be effectively practiced as adjusting the four humours and learned from practicing on squirrels.

  332. Well let me put my crayons down and I will respond.
    When you step and gp for the reverse back knuckle your head is wide open for s hesd butt. Now you say the reverse back knuckle was effective- I do not know who you hit with it but it is a weak strike. I once saw a guy get hit in the side of the head with a thrown tennis ball and start crying hysterically at 14 years of age- rather wimpy in my opinion.
    I would start with the hair grab or neck lock and put my thumb is his eye and secure that thumb with my fingermails digging into the ear on that side. Then maybe an elbow to the face and knee to the groin. If I get his head back far enough maybe hammering on the nose. I just cannot consider the reverse back knuckle to the mastoid or temple as a very good shot and leaves you far too open.

    • Hell just froze over! Amazing. Those counter attack options are actually great ideas. The eye gouge is a bit ‘nuclear’ but it all depends on the severity of the attack.

      • Gee thanls Steve- but Kenpo does not use a neck lock as it has few locks. And I basically count the technique as a bad one. Now where is the “HEY, that’s Kenpo!” It is merely a few moves. Also, Kenpo does not use a head butt as you posted earlier so it does not come naturally. Therefore it will not come at all.

  333. This is for foil first- I guess you are knew to this site. My name is Robert Libby.
    I just issued a chasllenge to Kenpo people, and one Steve Shaffer in particular- he ran away like a coward. And nobody else picked up the gauntlet. I also told people publicly when I would ne in Los Angeles and Dallas, Texas- nobody responded.
    In the early 1970s I chose of one Ron Wilstein as he abused some of my white belts while sparring with them, and it was not hearsay as I was there. I showed up at hos school the following Friday as agreed for a bare knuckle fight- he couldn’t show due to a pulled groin muscle- what a lie.
    I also chose off ed Parker, and is verified on this thread- he hid behind his wife as she called me to beg me not to “kill him.”
    So please spare me your bullshit. 99% of Kenpo people are useless in a fight and their techniques are a joke. Out of the former 128 technique system I PROVED to several Kenpo people that I could defaet 118 of the 128 techniques. They were shocked. 10 out of 128 isn’t even 8 percent effective, I then showed the how to make a few work or improve the viable few.
    I made a lot of the same comments as Ron is my student. So I guess I am an asshole to? Except I can prove what I say. I have chosed off 3 Kenpo people from 2nd to 10th degree and all folded.

  334. To Robert libby, man you have a huge chip on your shoulder can you even keep track of how many people you’ve challenged over the years? Iv read everything you’ve posted & your aggression toward those you feel wronged you is on another level. At first I didn’t know wat to think of you but your war of words with mills & then steve shaffer seemed very childish from someone who apparently went through the blood & guts era of kenpo karate. For wat it’s worth I actually believe your account of things but I also equally believe tom bleeker who you seem to have a good deal of respect for & rightly so. He said you should keep your fueds private. Why haven’t you heeded his advice instead you continually bang the same drum. I feel sorry for you in truth cos through your words & analysis it seems you’ve got a great deal to offer as an instructor but it’s like you’ve got something to prove to the world. Tom said your creds chek out & that’s good enough for me so as the joker says ” why so serious” your the only guy who has threatened violence to others & it’s so pathetic & redundant. I mean seriously who wants to fight an old man? What honor is there in that? Ooooo somebody said something I don’t like, come on man get real. Instead of fueding with Steve you should be collaborating with him, it’s guys like you who can bring self defense into a new era. Like I said I do believe your account of events concerning ed parker, however tom bleeker responded to several of the initial queries concerning Ed with diplomacy & respect to all parties including you Robert. With respect to tom bleeker why don’t you show some class & instead of challenging people why not put on master class seminars & respectfully invite people like steve shaffer to attend. Also Steve shaffer is active in his community & attempts to contribute something posetive to his corner of the world. I respect many of your opinions but you ruin your own integrity by bouts of unreasonable aggression. You’ve insulted so many people on this blog unnecessarily & I’m just trying say you don’t need to do that. No one will respect you for that no matter how many videos you post. When you recounted to tom some of your old days you revealed many posetive experiences you’ve had with kenpo & people you trained with, it’s like you were a different person . But you still hold on to old rivalries, there’s no future in that. I suggest you either get some conflict resolution counselling or maybe speak to tom bleeker some more cos his example is one you could learn a lot from, after all he is your senior & a man of great wisdom. Sorry if I come off high & mighty but like I said these same old arguments you make are like a circle & i truly believe you could be helping others & yourself more by giving them the benefits of your many years of real world experience. I wish you the best for your health mr libby, I also have daughters myself so I relate to you in many ways. Be safe sir, I also consider you my senior & man worthy of respect.

    • So in thinking are you talking about me choosing off Ed Parker and Ron Wilstein? Only a coward wouldn’t have.
      Ron Wilstein slapped around and humiliated 2 of my 14 year old students ay his school. I chose him off right there in defense of two barely teenage children as any caring instructor would. So you feel that a 21 year old black belt should not be confronted for attacking kids? You feel that I as their instructor should not have intervened on their behalf? If you feel that way you are nuts.
      I called Ed Parker as he called the health club and lost me my job and said “I will come down there and start hurting his students.” So you feel that Ed Parker should just get a pass after acting like a fool, hurting me, and threatening beginning students when he was a 5th degree black belt? And after listening to a pure BS story from an idiot. If that is what you are referring to as me being a lunatic for choosing them off then I agree, I am a lunatic that ALWAYS protected his students.
      The guy I slammed into a fence kicked my puppy. So I should allow the prick to kick a baby dog? Smmes like Ed, Ron, and the dog kicker needed help far more than me.

  335. You seem to be missing the point that it is a two way street. And I can at least admit when I am wrong or apologize. Has Mills ever apologized for calling me a liar and fraud? Has Steve Shaffer who said “I teach on Thursday, come by anytime” and then says he will have me arrested?
    I am a counter puncher usually. But I have taked a lot of heat over this, and I knew I would. But to be blunt there are so many liars and fakes in this it is ridiculous. And some of your commenst are just as absurd. Okay, you are a Kenpo acolyte. But do not feel that because Kenpo is the second biggest system in the world gives it a free pass or the right to lie. FAce the fact that your analysis is crap and full of holes. I believe that is what is really getting to you. And from 56 years in the arts I know that a lot of people are lying on this thread to protect Kenpo. I know BS when I read it.

  336. One other point. Who did I threaten with violence other than Snibbs for insulting my wife? I never threatened Steve Shaffer. I said it would be friendly an laid out the rules. I nevr threatehed Mills or anybody else.
    What I see here is you would love for me to shut up as I can rip EPAK to ribbons analytically, and with videos. My chip is against frauds that put people at risk and basically steal their money.

  337. You make some good points Robert. However thuggery begets thuggery. All the best in your future endeavors.

  338. Actually you are absolutely right Robert, thanks again for your honesty, I know you’ve taken a lot of shit. Iv actually done a bit of research on not just you but a lot of players from the early days of epak. Let me firstly say that mills creds are a bit suspect & i am as I actually & stated earlier, an ex kempo practitioner. I said in my previous post that i can relate to you, kempo seems to polarise certain people. My experience was not as extreme as yours but my first Kempo Shihan was a man of 30 years plus experience & wasn’t that great in hindsight but we listened to his bullshit all the same. That is until my head instructor said we should incorporate the AKK self defense into our system. Long story short it tore our school in half. The Shihan accused his student, who was his heir & protégé for 15yrs of usurping his authority & demanded all the videos he had, which he took with his own camera out of his own pocket & threatened legal action when he refused. After my instructor formed his own school, The Shihan hosted Jeff Speakman several times. We tried to attend one these seminars & the shihan singled out several of us including my instructor refusing us entry even after we had payed our money. The Shihan said we owed him for unpaid fees or some crap, Jeff did come & calm things down cos my instructor was about blow a gasket. Out of respect to Jeff we left but that was infuriating & very embarrassing. We didn’t miss much as one their black belts was training with us in secret & videoed the seminar anyway. So I can understand your animosity to ED cos this shihan was like that to us. Apart from that I had mostly good experiences with kempo & training. As you stated in one of your earlier posts that you should be hit, thrown to the ground & choked well that’s exactly how we trained. Several us more hardcore students had our own little fight club where we pushed the boundaries so if we did get in real fight we weren’t gona be shocked. We also cross trained with other guys & styles & formed a great network of MA friends. My former Sifu went on to hold multi style seminars inviting anyone to join & share knowledge. Personally I look at other M Artists & brothers& sisters & we should look out for each other & share knowledge to make us better people in general. Sorry to Robert libby if I seemed critical, I jus think a person of your stature doesn’t hav to prove himself to anyone here.

  339. Thanks for going a little deeper. And what was so strange was that after I left I would go by the EP school and visit people. There was zero heat and zero problems. I would sit out front and shoot the bull with friends and it was very friendly.
    I just got my MRI report and it is worse than we thought. I have 2 completely torn tendons, 1 completely torn ligament, and a torn labrim from the 9 o’clock to 12 o’clock position. So the surgery will ne a little more complex and longer time off. Anyway, thanks for checking things out.

  340. Your welcome Robert I hope thing work out for you & your family.

  341. Hey Robert I was wondering if you could shed some light on one the guys you trained with. I came across an old blog from years ago & they were talking about a fellow he was a pretty big dude, ex Vietnam vet. One story was that he was a bouncer at a biker bar & one time he told these guys to settle down, gave a few chances then kicked them out. One guy had a go & he dealt with him & apparently he wiped the blood off this guy & smeared across his face & said to rest of his buddies who’s next & they hightailed it out of there. Another story goes & this was wen I saw your name mentioned that he & some buddies were playing pool & they got into bar fight & the cops came & through em all in jail & you were apparently only about 16 but had a car & you helped bail them out. Is this the same guy who would take you out the back, dressed in jeans & combat boots & trained you very hard? I also heard that you were tough as nails & kept coming back for more. Also was this same guy who was passed out with a cheerleader in the dojo one Saturday morning with the kids ready to do a class?

  342. Yes- that was Larry Hartsell. He is known as a grappler, but he is a boxer, great with weapons, was a fantastic kicker, and phenomenal at trapping. He really was the total package.
    The wipimg the blood on his face happened while he was bouncing at a bar called the Beaver Inn. Larry usually came in on Saturdays and had maybe had a few cocktails. He always loved teaching people so he would teach me. And the story of him on the mats with a cheerleader is true. I did go to get him out of the West LA policce station. I went with Norm Pattiz and Paul Dalton. They called my house at like 6:30am on a Saturday. I told my parents it was a problem at the school so they were okay with my leaving.
    But to be fair, Tom Bleecker knows Larry a lot better than I do. You see all of them were in their 20s or older. One day Larry said to me “let’s go get a beer.” I said “Larry, I’m only 16 and my folks would kill me.” As I was in the Monday-wednesday fighting class under Norm Pattiz people thought I was older.
    But training with Larry was great. He was insanely knowledgable. But he would HIT you. The worst was a Chinese push kick in the thighs or shins while he had on combat boots. He did a great book called “Entering to Trappimg to Grappling.” He just died like 2 years ago from some form of cxancer.

  343. Thanks for your insight Robert. The more I learn about you & the early days the more my respect grows for you. Even though like you I’m a former kempo guy I try to learn what I can my predecessors & what they’ve contributed. I’m curious as to your opinion of the Tracey’s side of things. Particularly as I believe one of their websites or blog I have come across shed a bit of doubt on mills Crenshaw & his creds. I don’t mean to keep opening old wounds but I find your insight to be most edifying.

  344. Okay. When I started we had 3 schools- Santa Monica, Pasadena, and Crenshaw. We were all very friendly, but were all sort of doing our own thing.
    When it came to the Tracys they were “the Kenpo guys up north.” They were more in the Stockton and Sacramento areas as I recall it. If Al or Will Tracy walked up to me I woud not know who they were as I never met them. I do not remember them ever really being discussed. I have only come to realize in the last few years that there was friction. You would have to ask somebody like Tom Bleeker or Chuck Sullivan.

  345. Thank you again for your feed back Robert. I hope your surgery goes ok. I find the early days of days AK quite fascinating. I hope I can ask you for your opinion if I have any queries in the future as you’ve proven to be quite a reputable source of information on that era. All the best.

    • Any time. The 60s were interesting and fun. A really different attitude existed then. I saw a posting by a lady who said “my son got hit. I’ll never go there again.” It’s a martial, not an encounter group. I would come home battered and all my parents would say is “get the ice and banndages,” We were raised to be tougher and we made our own fun. We played baseball and football and were a more physical generation. I remember one morning I got up and my ankle folded from an injury. I was on my back for about 10 weeks while it drained. As soon as I was walking my dad shot me over to Karate school. He knew I missed.
      I wish there were more videos and especially of Scott Loring. I think you also would have enjoyed the inter-school touirnamants from green belt on down. Stay in touch.

  346. As always sounds like a great time. Such a shame to lose larry Hartsell, from what I’ve read about him he sounds like a legend, your are so fortunate to have been able to train with him. Robert I was wondering if you ever had the chance to train with Dan Inosanto or any of the early jkd guys? Also can you share some your experiences with Scott Loring & Ron Morgan?

  347. I worked with Dan a little bit in the 70s. But he has had a waiting list for devades. He used to only teach I believe Tuesday and Thursday as he needed so much time to stay current with his knowledge. He is certified in like 10 or 11 arts, and that is a guess, It could be more. Mostly in the 70s I worked with Richard Bustillo. Richard is great but has a different feel than Dan. Dan is like smooth glass, but very strong, and Richard is shall I say more coarse, more brutal. yet both are great. I also trained with Chris Kent and did some knife wotk with him. He choreographed a movie with Peter Coyote called eithe “Exposure” or “Grande Arte” about knife fighting in Brazil. It’s sort of a cult film.
    The first thing I ever heard Scott Loring say was “martial art means war art- don’t ever forget that.” He was six feet tall and weighed about 195 to 200 lbs. But he defied all the norms. He moved like a light weight and hit like a heavyweight. He swept people a lot and was incredibly flexible. He fought Joe Lewis once and all witnesses say Scott clobbered him, but Lewis was the “Golden Boy.” He had fought in two tournaments and was ranked number 2 in America. He had fiught people like Tony Tulleners and just was so far out of their league. But he was a great teacher. HE gave a vibe that he cared about his students. But when you got up in rank he could be really rough on you. He had a brown belt cornered and the brown belt just covered up and Scott said “covering up won’t do you a damn bit of good” and worked the guy a bit. His point was always fight back as the streets have no mercy. But there was an unwritten rule at our school- Scott Loring and LArry Hartsell were not allowed to spar. However, I have no idea how that would be enforced. Luckiny they always came in on different days.
    You also have to remember that in the 60s some tournamets were rigged. I was fighting in the 4 Seasons tournament. I was sitting 4th in green belt. I had a match coimg up and the 2 guys after that I had beaten before. The guy I was fighting went into sudden death with me, but a lot of my shots weren’t getting called. So he fired a spinning rear kick- I slipped it and hit him with a reverse punch to the back. All 4 corners gave me a point but the head referee overruled them and I lost. The head referee was my opponent’s father, Sol Esquivel from Lima Lama. We protested and lost. My last tournament was the 1973 Internationals. I fought a Norris guy named Mike Bissel (he was in Enter the Dragon- the golf course scene with John Saxon). Mike was a good guy. But head referee Pat Johnson, Mike’s main instructor, 3 of the corners were Norris’, and a TKD guy for the fourth corner. I couldn’t buy a point. So he beat me in sudden death as I ran him out of the ring. I had some choice for words for Pat Johnson and was trying to push him into a fight, but we got broken up and I left. I refused to fight in another tournament. Both Joe Lewis and Steve Sanders Mihammad tell similar stories.
    Ron is my student. He and 1 other guy left Ed Parker’s with me. I never tried to steal Ed’s paople as claimed by Larry Tatum. I could have taken a lot of students. I had him in privates for about 9 years do to his work load. He never cared about rank. He just wanted to learn. He is like 5’11” and 180, but he hit hard. More of a hands guy than feet. In the street I almost never kick due to the unknown surfaces one may encounter. He is a pure street guy. All elbows, headbutts, eyes, and biting.
    Larry was a huge loss. A GREAT teacher. But I have to mention another Kenpo guy- Steve Sanders. MAn he was smooth. He and Scott epitomized what Kenpo was supposed to be, not what it became. Almost no forms, a few techniques, and just great hard-hitting basics. Everything was sharp and on target.
    Hope that helps.

  348. Robert thank you again for sharing your experiences, I’m a bit of a history buff when it comes to Martial Arts & i gotta say I’m eating this stuff up. One of the the reasons I’m so interested in the American Kenpo arm is the first Kempo school I trained with, ( remember I’m in australia) has a connection via new Zealand from one grandmaster Robert Gemmell who It’s claimed is a 1st generation bb under IKKA. He got his 6th dan by Ed in 1979 so is that still 1st gen? Anyways he apparently travelled extensively all over Asia getting qualifications & has a massive school in NZ. Like Ed he is a larger than life figure in the Martial Arts community in Australasia & has a hero worship like status, his list of accomplishments is pretty impressive if you believe everything you read. But see I also heard through the grapevine that he wasn’t all he was cracked up to be & that some asian masters thought he was arrogant & like Ed seemed to be a polarising figure. I don’t really have any evidence to support these claims just rumours from in house. The Shihan I spoke of earlier got his 6th dan under Mr Gemmell in NZ then moved to here to open the Australian arm of his Kempo, gung fu & tai chi school. But then later on bam!, politics disagreements or wateva resulted in this Shihan breaking away from the parent school & forming his own Kempo Australia school. See a pattern here? These guys & my instructor had a great relationship only to end in bad blood & as I said earlier this shihan also turned on my instructor leading to more bad blood. It’s was so ironic that he accused my then instructor of subterfuge in trying to learn the American Self defense stuff cos several of the bb he graded in NZ went on to train under larry tatum & form their own schools & were invited like royalty to put on seminars here in australia. They were nice guys though, one of these gentleman was Shane Rongonui & at the time what they were doing was unbelievable to us. Also as I stated earlier the shihan even hosted Jeff Speakman quite regularly at one stage. So here we were training with some of the big names of American kenpo but we weren’t allowed to add it to our syllabus, ABSOLUTE MADNESS. The Kempo system we inherited from Mr Gemmell was very Chinese influenced & emphasized the 5 animal shaolin styles. I absolutely loved it but I fell more in love with tai chi later down the line as my best friend & i were for fortunate enough to meet one of the few guys here in australia that had trained in real Chen style tai chi in China under some very high ranking masters. Hope I haven’t bored you to much with my story, I guess I jus hate how hierarchy politics in arts like kempo affects students who just want to learn & enjoy training in martial arts. Robert I really appreciate you taking the time to respond to my posts. I got like a million questions I want ask you, I’ll try to portion them out. Thank you again.

    • I trained at Kempo Bushido Ryu then Kempo Australia for many years and am well aware of the falling out between the Shihan and the senior student (your instructor) that you describe. Suffice that the older John was very invested in the idea that he was teaching a 5000 year old tradition that was already as good as it needed to be, while the younger John wanted to move with the times and focus more on practical self defence applications. They are both good men and it was a real shame that they couldn’t have come to some sort of accommodation, or at least parted on good terms.

      Gemmell was a wonderful pioneer in New Zealand martial arts, but he had a very authoritarian approach to running his school which rubbed a lot of people up the wrong way. He also became so interested in the Chinese martial arts that he stopped teaching Kempo as a practical self defence system. Hence instructors like Shane Rongonui started their own schools.

      Still, it is a story you hear a thousand times over in the martial arts between teachers and students, I just wonder if it is the way it is.

  349. I have never heard of Gemmell. But to me 1979 is second generation. Tom Bleecker, Chuck Sullivan and those of their olk are first. If you want to see a really interesting guy look up “swiverl punch.” The guy is named Lee Thompson or Emmerson. He is just a pure streetfighter. But he does really cool stuff. I will look up Robert Gemmell.

  350. Hey there Robert. One of the reasons I was curious if you’d crossed paths with the Tracey’s is its seems they put they’r heart & soul into kenpo as well & got burned by Ed. I came across an editorial by one of them it’s called “Kenpo karate, setting history right” & it covers a lot of stuff. The part that covers 62-64 has some stuff on mills Crenshaw as well. I don’t know if that would interest you but it’s seems pretty legit & after reading your experience with Ed I found it very interesting. In your earlier reply you said you found out later there was some friction with them, after what iv read that’s an understatement. If you get a chance to check it out I would love to hear your opinion. Hows your shoulder? I hope it’s getting sorted. Take care.

    • I’ll take a lok at it. It’s just we never discussed them. I have read some of that article and they referred to Ed as a note card martail artist. I believe Bart Vale is out of the Tracy system. He is a rough guy and talented. I hear a lot of good things about him. Shoulder is next Thursday.

    • Re: Tracy’s

      They have done a lot of history, but it looks to be an effort of self-aggrandizement, not a dissemination of truth.

      Consider Will Tracy’s article wherein he claims that Parker started the belt on the side tradition to mimic Mormon temple rituals and that this type of inserting Mormon symbolism into EPKK got so bad that when people saw Parker in his coffin wearing Mormon temple garb they thought that it was his gi.

      Pure nonsense.

      The belt on the side came from Kung Fu where men and women in those systems tie their sashes on different sides. There was a concerted effort to import useful movements from Kung Fu into KK and it seems the belt to the side was just a nod to their Kung Fu influence. Video here http://www.goo.gl/drcswV

      That several students saw Parker in the bizarre Mormon temple garments at his funeral and thought it was a gi is not evidence of crypto-Mormonism inserted into EPKK, it’s a rational, but wrong, guess at seeing a Karate man in a strange outfit and making an understandable mistake. See the Mormon temple garb at the link below and see how easy it would be to make such a mistake.
      http://goo.gl/Hc65E1

      The Tracy’s seem to have an element of truth in what they write – such as some thought Parker was wearing his gi in his coffin – but interpret it to fit their agenda. I don’t have a lot of nice things to say about Ed Parker’s KK, but the Tracy’s don’t just give the straight truth in their interpretation of events. And their website looks like it hasn’t been updated since 1998.

      Here is a clip of a 6th degree black belt technique from the Tracy’s “real” Kenpo.

    • Re: Tracy’s

      They have done a lot of history, but it seems to be an effort of self-aggrandizement, not a dissemination of truth.

      Consider Will Tracy’s article wherein he claims that Parker started the belt on the side tradition to mimic Mormon temple rituals and that this type of inserting Mormon symbolism into EPKK got so bad that when people saw Parker in his coffin wearing Mormon temple garb they thought it was his gi.

      Pure nonsense.

      The belt on the side came from Kung Fu where men and women in those systems tie their sashes on different sides. There was a concerted effort to import useful movements from Kung Fu into KK and it seems the belt to the side was just a nod to their Kung Fu influence. Video here http://www.goo.gl/drcswV

      That several students saw Parker in the bizarre Mormon temple garments at his funeral and thought it was a gi is not evidence of crypto-Mormonism inserted into EPKK, it’s a rational, but wrong, guess at seeing a Karate man in a strange, white outfit and making an understandable mistake. See the Mormon temple garb at the link below and see how easy it would be to make such a mistake.
      http://goo.gl/Hc65E1

      The Tracy’s seem to have an element of truth in what they write – such as some thought Parker was wearing his gi in his coffin – but interpret it to fit their agenda. I don’t have a lot of nice things to say about Ed Parker’s KK, but the Tracy’s don’t just give the straight truth in their interpretation of events.

      Here is a clip of a 6th degree black belt technique from the Tracy’s “real” Kenpo. I don’t see that it’s superior to what EP changed his system into.

    • I went through the article more thoroughly. I am sometimes put off by claims of a bird not leaving his hand as his “chi force” stopped the bird from flying. I knew about the student hanging himself, but never knew his names. The reasons why differ and I have no opinion as I never met the man. Remember that I was a teenage kid when a lot of this was talked about.
      I did find the part about Ed giving rank to those that helped him interesting (I know personally that this was done). Elvis is a prime example.
      I also found the section you mentioned (years 62-64) of major interest. I feel they gave credibility to the bekief that Ed was never a black belt as his promotion to 5th and the 3rd of Mills Crenshaw is highly doubtful. Especially when one considers that Mills is never mentioned befpre that.
      But I would like to add that the people I was fortinate to train inder were dedicated MA practitioners. They will lawys be treasured memories for me.

  351. Hi Robert, I too am very skeptical of some examples of chi & remember I’m into tai chi which is all about chi! To me the idea of chi is more about tangible energy rather than mystical bullshit. The part in that article about Ed & mills promoting each other just goes to show how a lot of people didn’t even question how a rank was earned, seems like a few people in the organization were more interested in stroking each other’s ego & furthering they’r own agenda. One of the main reasons I followed & responded to this thread is that although I love kempo, I hate politics & i like to have an informed opinion on things. I personally take most of what I read on the net with a pinch of salt & I’m not trying to stroke your ego either but like the Tracey’s your input seems pretty legit in my humble opinion. I also whole heartily agree about the people you train with. You mentioned Larry Tatum being a great teacher, I haven’t really heard much about his early days. Was he someone you had trained with also? The other thing I’m curious about is what time period was it when you guys helped after the irs shut the school down. Was that the Pasadena school? Did your surgery go ok? Shoulder injuries are a pain the ass, my brother, who was a kempo prodigy in our school ended his training days with a tragic shoulder injury.

  352. I never trained with Tatum. I trained with Larry HArtsell.
    Yeah, the shoulder has me worried. But surgery has advanced so I am at least hopeful.

  353. Hey there robert, do you have an opinion of Tatum? Also do you have an opinion on Jeff Speakman? Your thoughts would be appreciated.

  354. I do not really know Tatum. I do know that what he said about me at the Sanata Monica school was incorrect, but it was like 40 years ago. I have never met or trained with Speakman.
    Tatum is a traditional IKKA guy. But Speakman seems to be changing, He is doing BJJ.
    I do not know if this is true and I have asked others about it. It was reported that at some large Kenpo gathering in Venezuela Speakman said openly “Old Kenpo is bullshit, the way to go is BJJ with MMA.” Now once again I do not know if this is true, It could definitely be a rumor. But I do know Speakman is definitely doing BJJ.
    So let me expand on that. I have seen Kenpo people doing hubud/lubud- they do it wrong. It is also a foot drill. They do not know the fine points to it. There is a video on youtube of Ron Chapel doing a hubud drill. His arm position on the raise portion is WRONG. And many do not ezplain that the raise can also be a backfist to the tricep muscle- they do not know that. I have seen Kenpo people doing BJJ- no they aren’t. And please insert TKD/Goju/etc where I put Kenpo. The 2 biggest McDojos now are Bjj and Krav Maga. It seems everybody is doing one or the other with no training.

  355. Thank you for thoughts Robert, your insights are most appreciated. Interesting what you said about krav maga. A fellow Co worker & i got to talking about MA & he mentioned he had done several styles but he had been doing krav maga for several years. He showed me a few things & seemed to know his stuff but his experience was marred by politics & infighting in their organization as well so he jus trains casually & helps his mates cos he’s got no time for their Mcdojo mentality. In australia there are so many mma gyms & clubs & krav maga seems to growing in popularity but very few bjj schools however. Stay safe

  356. Libby, I have no idea who the fuck you are, but post your damn video, you salty cuckold.

    • I have 5 videos up and for months now. I will not be able to do any more for awhile as I tore my right shoulder in a motorcycle accident and need surgery, Rehab time is 4 months. Just put in Bad Kenpo techniques and they are there.

  357. libby still bashing kenpo i see,,, he claims to know most of the 1st gen black belts,, yet when i mentioned Mike Pick, a 1st gen black belt who started with parker at the pasadena school in 1957.. he had know idea who he is,,, interesting, GM pick is a vietnam marine combat vet who used his combat skills in life or death situations in the jungles,, he also has a kenpo knife system based on his real life experiences,,, theres one for you to tell kenpo doesnt work in the street… tell him kenpo is bullshit… i dare ya

    • Sorry Kevin, I already went public and not one Kenpo person responded. The one who first accepted later backed out and threatened to have me arrestee. But you bring up a good point for once.
      All these “kenpo Masters” and not one had this response- Kenpo is a good knife system and it is. They do not even know their own system. So I guess they aren’t really so masterful.
      Why didn’t you accept my offer? I said when I was coming out publicly.

  358. Gee Kevin, still lying. I said I did not know Pick. I never said I didn’t know OF him. Ist. Gen black Belts that know me and I know- Chuck Sullivan, Stebe Sanders Muhammad, Tom Bleecker, Vic Lerouz, Carl Schalio, Tom Howard, Paul Dalton, Scott Loring, Albert Cornejo to name a few. And there are many other Kenpo black belts that know me and respect my abilities. In this piece Tom Bleecker says he knows me and respects me. So where are your facts Kevin?

  359. One more thing Kevin. I have noticed that anybody that is critical of your cult is “an ass” or somehow a liar. You never answer anything analytically. But I did what I said I would do- I posted videos. Now it is Kenpo’s turn. Where are the videos of Ed Parker where he looks even half way decent? But don’t waste a lot of time as there aren’t any. Like all cult leaders they don’t like to show too much.

  360. Hey Robert how’s th shoulder? I noticed some of these kenpo guys really hate you eh. I bet they just can’t stand the fact that ed wouldn’t fight you. I been doing some more research on ed & th more I dig th more it seems he was just a kenpo salesman & it’s guys like Mike pick & the Tracey’s etc that actually did all th hard work, while ed ate cheeseburgers.

  361. I definitely feel I am not on some of their Christmas lists. We just did the surgery 2 days ago with a sports med specialist. He worked with the team doctor for the Univ. of Michigan- great guy. Unfortunately there was more damge than the MRI showed. I lost some of the bicep as the tendon was so badly ruptured. But he said other muscles will compensate. I tend to heal weel so I will be okay. He did advise me to quit judo as a shoulder by me could really put the shoulder at risk. So I will modify my training and just go pure filth with stick and knife. I’ll mostly be doing filipino arts and JKD. I’ll keep a ground game but limited.
    When I am stronger I am going to show how many are doing grappling defenses but against very weal grapplers. Some had to be shown how to do the hold and it was still wrong.
    Thanks for the consideration.

  362. Kevin Harshman,

    Your asinine rant – well, your most recent one – makes me wonder about a few things that I hope you can help me understand.

    >Why does only knowing Mike Pick give one warrant to critique Kenpo? Might a critique not be based on Kenpo’s complete failure in MMA for the last 20+ years? What about merely analyzing the techniques?

    >Can you provide a single clip of Pick doing Kenpo? After all, if we want to see how Larry Tatum, Ron Chapel, Paul Mills, Frank Trejo, or Joe Palonzo move, it’s a Youtube click away— certainly the great Marine puts all the aforementioned phonies to shame and can show it on video?

    >Did Pick tell you that he’d kill anyone who critiqued Kenpo? If not, how does he feel about you making death threats in his name?

    >Has Pick or any of his students fought MMH/NHB? Video please.

    >Is it your contention that an overweight 60-something is the baddest man on the planet? What has he done to prove such?

    >Are you at all disturbed at Pick’s self-aggrandizing claims that he was publicly signaled to be Parker’s rightful successor by means of carrying a belt and that he was Parker’s personal bodyguard? Actually, Parker often designated his BBs to shoo away pesky admirers, etc., but only Pick – perhaps because of his family history of severe mental illness – morphs these mundane tasks into being the chosen one.

    I know that I’m just a liar, an ass, and a disgruntled fool, (as is anyone who disagrees with you) but I’d appreciate your responses nevertheless.

  363. I am a Kenpo Black Belt under Skip Hancock, the one who wrote Ed Parker’s manuals. I just want to say. I spent time with Ed Parker. He was a good man and there is no reason to bash him or Mormonisms. If you are doing do you are obviously some back woods Jealous fool.

    I would like to end this by asking all who really Know the truth to not respond to this A Hole and never post on here again!

    This guy gets a big hard on making people mad obviously!

    DO NOT POST FOR THIS A HOLE TO CONTINUE!

    DON’T EVEN RESPOND TO THIS.

    OR YOU WILL JUST LOOK LIKE HIM A HOLE!

  364. Dear Jose, I believe you wrote this to Azangul? This is a long thread. But I believe I am the one that got this started, so if you have issues address me. And I am not A ‘back woods” fool. MAybe you should ask why some of these things have ben writte,
    Robert Libby

  365. Hey Jose, Robert can say what he likes. The Internet is a free space & he has some valid points. I think its funny how kenpo people get so riled up cos someone sez something they don’t like or question the great ed parker. Robert is not the only one who has this opinion & it just so happened that ed crossed him. So why should Robert keep his mouth shut? I think it’s important to hear accounts like roberts, & the thing I respect about him is that he can back up what he is saying with FACTS. Also Robert has a lot of respect for many of the early kenpo guys as per the dialog iv had with him. If u see what I posted you’ll see I didn’t agree some things he had to say to begin with but that’s why you communicate with people, & in my opinion he’s been very candid & answered a lot of questions iv had. Bravo Robert keep up the good work. P’s I checked out ur videos & things you discuss are most valid indeed.

  366. Thank you for the support, it is greatly appreciated.

  367. About Aaron Banks since I trained at his NY Karate Academy for 8 years.
    Legit, and a premier Martial Arts Master.
    His dojo housed different arts including boxing and wrestling.
    Became known as THE FIRST promoter of MMA with his Oriental World promotion at MSG.
    Ran, unsuccessfully for mayor of NYC.
    His dojo was at 711 7th Avenue, 3rd Floor.
    First floor was a Mafia run strip club.
    And, Banks had their respect.
    Heard the “boys” say “hello Mr. Banks”, “how us doin Aaron”, “Master Banks, everything ok”? Many times.
    Just a real down to earth, honest, and dedicated Martial Arts legend.
    Anybody, want to know more just ask.
    I’ll be happy to post true and credible information on Great Grand Master Banks or other legendary East Coast pioneers.

  368. I had heard some wild stories about banks including the strip club. Sounds quite a character.

  369. Hey Robert!
    Read your different posts, looks like you put the scare on quite a few instigators.
    Yeah, Aaron was something else.
    He did a lot for people that doesn’t get mentioned.
    His shows were very good.
    If he were still alive I guarantee that MMA would have no problem getting legalized in NYC years ago.
    The UFC could have hired him because Aaron was liked and knew a lot of important people.

  370. Scaring people was never my purpose. But I do like to think that some good came out of it. I hope it got some people thinking. And after looking at some YouTube videos of what passes for a black belt now I think I made the right choice to speak out.
    The other good news is I will “probably” be able to start putting some new videos up in 3 to 4 more weeks. I had my first check with my surgeon and I have full range of motion which I should not have yet. But I can show some concepts. I will show how in many arts (not just Kenpo) people are teaching escapes from holds, but they are not even putting the hold on or do not have a clue as to what they are talking about.
    Screwing up on the grappling arts can be catastrophic. And those teaching these escapes are totally irresponsible.

  371. former kenpo you tyalk alot of shit for someone whose never met the guy.. actually im sorry i brought his name into the this lousy mix to begin with as im sure he would not entertain it or any of you,, hes has no reason to prove himself ,,the only reason i brought him up was your claim that kenpo doesnt work in the real world,, his experiences in war proved they did… for him…anyway its frutiless to continue a civil conversation with people whos only goal is to tear down a man no longer alive to defend himself and art they think doesnt work to promote their own agenda,, so adios,,,, have fun in your dream world

  372. Hey Kevin, Robert Libby here. From what I know of Mike Pick he had a lot of respect, but I never met him. But for you to accuse somebody of “talking shit” is absurd. You, Mike Bennett, Mills Crenshaw, and Steve Shaffer pile it on by the ton. Steve Shaffer thinks because he writes a lot of words that proves Kenpo’s effectiveness. And then you keep screaming about tearing down a dead man. Ed Parker wanted the fame, but he never packed the goods to back up his claims.He was a fraud at best.
    All of you asked for my videos and I produced them, and have gotten some very positive responses. It is only the Kenpo die hards that went to lies and insanity, and making outrageous claims that are not true. Rather than ever giving a rational or knowledgable critique the best they could say was that “he is full of shit.” And even Steve Shaffer admitted I was right about Clutching Feathers when he said “it isn’t realistic.”
    So where are your videos? Let’s see some skills from you you fat mouthed punk! Let’s see you do an analysis, and a “real one”, not the Kenpo company line.
    So nice way to run away and say “adios”, because you, like most Kenpo black belts do not know a damn thing about fighting and 90% of your system is a joke. So put up or shut up you chickenshit. I notice to that two other fools, Mills Crenshaw and Steve Shaffer, never post anymore. I guess it being proven that one is a liar and the other a fool keeps them quiet.

    • Mills was in a class of his own for his delusional asshattery. Reading his posts was like a time warp back to the old WW2 era types who genuinely believed they could kill with every shot. That he thought he could defeat a MMA’r while pushing 80 years old only shows how far separated he is from reality.

      Still, he was useful as he
      > Confirmed that Parker was personally telling tall tales about his street fights (7 fights against at least 4 armed attackers)
      > Filled in a few details about the Judo Gene / Milo Savage fight
      > Showed how delusional the thinking was in days gone by. He takes the one shot, one kill belief to an extreme that few modern day practitioners could possibly buy

      Steve Shaffer strikes me as a professorial sort whose tastes are more adventurous than the typical academic—he wouldn’t seem out of place lecturing on 19th century literary movements at a college. Hence love of posting long analyses and quoting various sources. EPK with its reliance on academic-like jargon tends to attract those types. Definitely a better sort than Mills Crenshaw or Kevin Harshman.

  373. fat -mouth punk??? is that the best you can do??? LOL.. try looking in the mirror.. i have no reason to prove my self to you which im sure based on your videos i could easily do,, my skills have served me well where it counts,, so,,, insult on….they mean nothing to me as neither do you

    • I announced publicly when I would be in the USA- where were you you fat mouthed punk? All I have ever heard you offer is for somebody to fight somebody else. Yes, Kevin, I am fat, but not a punk, and you are a punk. No Kevin, I would mop the floor with you because you are a fucking coward that hides behind others. Now go fuck off!

  374. i apologise to the others reading my last comment,,,, i should never get into a pissing contest sort of speak.. with anyone,,, robert is entitled to his point of view as am i .. ihave a lot going on right now,, wife is battlling cancer,, so robert,,, i apologise…. your entitled to your point of view ,,,

  375. former kenpo you tyalk alot of shit for someone whose never met the guy.. — Kevin Harshman

    As you again used the “you never met Mike Pick” line again, I ask again: why does only knowing Mike Pick give one warrant to evaluate Kenpo?

    Nor did I talk trash; everything I said is true or a valid question. BTW, you didn’t answer any of the questions.

    actually im sorry i brought his name into the this lousy mix

    You should also be careful with your own name: you’ve boasted about sending someone to the hospital and made physical threats in response to valid questions. Any potential employer who Googles you can only conclude that you’re a poorly educated goon.

    his experiences in war proved . . .

    H2H experiences in modern war aren’t especially common. The only story I can find of Pick using Kenpo in Vietnam was to step off the line of attack when someone was trying to stab him from behind: a good idea, but it hardly validates whole the AK system.

    anyway its frutiless to continue a civil conversation . . . have fun in your dream world

    Oh the irony.

  376. i made physical treats?? lol… maybe you should go back and read some of your pal roberts threats and challenges to folk.. i tried to leave this group on a positive note,, but guys like you insist on name calling anyone who disagrees with you..well i wont play your game anymore,,i think anyone one who looks and read this tread will see who the bullying and threats come from… i even apologised,,the bigger person would haved accepted and moved on oh but not you,, you will insult anyone who takes a stand for art their love come hell or high water,,, grow up dude,… this isnt high school..later

    • The only one I threatened was Snibbs Jervey for making commebts about my family. I “challenged” Mike Shaffer to an exchange of ideas, and gave him every advantage. I publicly stated that I would use no offensive strikes like knees, elbows, punches, or kicks. So now you are a liar and a fat mouthed punk. I also offered to pay my way to Florida. And like most Kenpo people he proved he was a coward and his system was useless.
      So tell me who I threatened?

  377. A challengo to exchange ideas is not a threat. Name one that I threatened other than Snibbs Jervey?
    But I will say that if your wife is struggling with cancer then you have enough to worry about. I am sorry for your grief.
    RB Libby

    • There is way too much to read here on this thread, but very interesting….

      I think many people have learned a form of Kenpo with too many techniques and not enough practice with basics and individual concepts. Not enough training to really blend borrow and combine from one another. Chuck Sullivan and Vic LeRoux separated from American Kenpo WHILE PARKER WAS STILL ALIVE. Parker was supportive. They wanted to cut out the fat and keep the grind of the American Kenpo that it was in the beginning.

      If your head is thinking a technique is going to work perfect in a LIVE FIGHT, you’re probably going to get destroyed. Boxers train tons of combos, but rarely can tie them perfectly in a real fight. But they take pieces of each and know what it is like to hit the body and its reactions. Kenpo should be taught the same.

      Kenpo works, but not because of its cool techniques. Its concepts and ability to blend with other concepts tied with sharp basics is what make it a real threat.

      Karate works too. People nowadays have this idea that they get whooped on the street, LOL. It all depends who’s teaching you. Karate and Kenpo are very dangerous, but so many aspects you have to work on. I love my Kenpo and I have used it. Being a bouncer before and even guys bringing challenges to the dojo. I had a BJJ guy want to chlenge not too long ago. He wasn’t so upfront about it. But he was very resistant to what I was showing and then apply his BJJ techniques. I asked him several times nicely what he really wanted to do( I knew what he wanted). He smiled and said he wanted to find out what happens with a grappler vs striker. He outweighed me by probably 70+lbs. He wasn’t in top shape to be fair, but a blue belt BJJ practitioner at a very well accredited MMA school in my area. He was good. I’m not in the gym everyday either. My basics and technique is what does the work. That’s supposed to be true for any art.

      So what happened. No gloves for starters and I didn’t blast him to the face. He tried to shoot in and I didn’t let him. He was met with hard blast to ribs and stomach region. I didn’t use any kicks. When he tried to get the legs he was met with rapid chops to the head(back side, front) but I only let him listen and see it instead of giving him full out beatings there too. I entertained the clinch with him and he ate lots of shots and I was able to burst myself out. I wore him out. It was easy. It was my Kenpo. However, I do also practice a modified Judo for the street. But my grapppling honestly would have gotten me in trouble against this much more seasoned grappler. I wasnt afraid of the close range because of my grappling ability, but it was my Kenpo that busted him up.

      He was very surprised and happy and thanked me. He said he loved my fighting spirit. He didn’t comeback, but that’s OK. We all have our preferences. Others will come too and we just need to be ready.

      Fighting is not all gloves either. It’s not as realistic as many believe. It’s great, but it too has its limitations. I’m 5’9, 142lbs. My technique HAS to be good if I’m going to fight bigger opponents and be a bouncer. I’m always the smallest, LOL. I like to throw down with my much bigger co workers too. It’s in you or it isn’t. My ability is due to great training in Kenpo from my Instructor, Greg Payne. At 55 he’ll whoop nearly everyone’s ass on this thread. You’ll see what Karate really looks like. But he can also Judo throw you real nice or break you, choke or whatever. Kenpo is always changing. If your Kenpo isn’t, its really not Kenpo. It’s the basics and principles that make it Kenpo, not the techniques.

      Much respect to everyone.

      Osu.

  378. I tried not to say anything but had to. BULLSHIT!!!! That sounds like a Mills Crenshaw story. I am so glad you showed that BJJ guy some mercy. Chops to the side of the head? Okay!
    Please go to the Gracie Academy in Torrance, CA or any IBJJF school and make a video of this. And please make it a purple belt. If you can beat the guy I will apologize profusely.
    But the whole tone of the story IGNITED my bullshit monitoring system.
    Best of luck at a REAL BJJ school.

  379. LOL. That’s cool if you think that. You think chops are like in the movies? HIIIIIII YAWWWWWW!!!!! LOL.

    I didn’t hit him with it. But he saw I could have. He came in believing the same thing you are thinking. “That Lil guy teaching can’t do anything against BJJ.” What you don’t know can beat you. I’m aware of BJJ very much. I’m a huge MMA fan. I’m impartial to Judo. Forgive me. I don’t care much to jump in and out of guard. I have done it, and have worked with many BJJ practioners. I’m not saying anything bad. A purple belt doesn’t mean anyone is undefeatable. They’re good at what they do because it is done over and over and over. I do the same. Many BJJ schools make a student do 10 years before getting a black belt and tons of mat time. So how long are they a purple belt? They’re actually pretty good often.
    This thread was about the validity of Kenpo not who can beat who? In one on one competition it is relative to the experience and athleticism of the individuals. Maybe I beat up 5, but can’t 6 or more. That doesn’t mean the arts don’t work. Its just the individuals better competitors.
    My practice is in Kenpo, Kyokushin, Judo, Sambo and even some BJJ, but that comes from Judo minus a bunch of throws and big emphasis on them. I’m not someone who knows nothing and trains with fairies,lmao.
    You wanna come through my home one day. I’m in MD. I got a good backyard, cement basement floor and a couple small bathrooms. Hahaha. I’m down for James Brown. Don’t worry I don’t fight like an old kung Fu flick ????

  380. LOL also- a video. Talk is cheap.

  381. I doubt you have fought at all. So like I said, let’s see a video. You are a bouncer so let’s see some CCTV- all bars have them now. And claiming you can beat up 5 guys? Yeah, you must be one of Mills’ guys. You are delusional.

  382. LOL. You want to see? What’s your email?

  383. I do not give my email out. Just post it and send me the link. Yeah, I want to see you with a REAL BJJ guy. Kenpo techniques mean nothing to me so I want to see you going at it with a REAL BJJ school. And not some fool at your house or basement,

  384. Robert, I was entertaining this talk with you, but I’m convinced now you’re one those keyboard warriors. Where’s your footage? I was going to record for you some footage I have since you had this belief I have never fought and so on.

    You haven’t read or understood what I posted earlier. Straight Kenpo or striking art techniques DO NOT work live as they are prescribed and practiced. Body types and reactions to stimulus changes for everyone. The real focus is supposed to be on strong super clean basics and ability to blend borrow and combine those with other concepts you got on your toolbox and being spontaneous.

    BJJ or just ground fighting is no different. Once someone changes OR avoids something technique and maneuvering must change also.

    There’s nothing magical Mr Libby. Going around challenging is just about ego these days. When you blend arts(fighting skill) you really prove nothing challenging other schools. It’s not pure this vs that. You need to jump in a ring with someone else if you want to get some notches on your belt.

    I have nothing to prove, I’m cool. My tools have worked. In bouncing your not throwing strikes around. There I used my grappling ability to control, move, throw and lock. Only “Kenpo” move I ever used was a knee crush to this crazy guy’s head to sandwich between the concrete one time. No I didn’t splatter his brains. It was controlled and only done to get him to comply(he was trying to bite me and already kicked my partner in the face and grabbed his balls,LOL). However that was done in unison with a sprawl when he lunged to bite me. So I still used my grappling technique in that instance. I did this with 5-6 Secret Service and MPD officers just watching. My Kenpo was also used in my body positioning. I didn’t get roughed up or balls smashed. My principles were used throughout and in every scenario I’ve been in. I don’t have a thirsty ego. I teach what I know works. It has helped my students in real situations also and even my kids. That’s all I need, everything else is just extra.

    I never fought 5 guys at once. Never even practiced it. Or 4. Only up to 3. I did get jumped when I was in high school. I didn’t have any training then. But I fought then too. I stopped 3. I didn’t get beat up. I had to throw down then. But I was exhausted afterwards from the adrenaline dump and no stamina from exercise. I didn’t start practice until years later. I do believe I’d do much better these days. I have stamina, control over adrenaline and emotions, lots of power and speed, movements and understanding how the body moves and reacts to stay moves ahead.

    BJJ has very basic self defense techniques. It is designed that way. Do they work? Yes. But not every time too in a real fight. Also there’s nothing original about them. Those techniques are hundreds years old. BJJ gets more credit than deserved in my opinion. Its a form of judo and nothing more or less. You had a sect of judo in Japan practicing the art EXACTLY the same way BJJ was/is. And they beat Kodokan guys in submission contests all the time. Its nothing new.

    I think if you believe BJJ is all there is too believe in, you live in a bubble and too much a fan boy. Take what you believe and make it work. Have fun with it.

    Do you have any vids? I have a private stash of clips and what not, but have some content if you’d like to see on YouTube. Not much has me featured. Most of me are uke getting hit mostly or me doing the camera work. I’ve done almost all camera work with my instructor.

    Lookup: martialpayne or PUMAKenpo.

    You don’t have to believe anything and that any of this exists. Red pill or blue pill.

    Have a nice day.

    • You may want to read some of these posts as to whether I am a keyboard warrior or not. I challenged a Kenpo named Steve Shaffer- the challenge was that I would put a grb or hold on him, but for real. I PROMISED I would use no offensive strijes or weapons. I told him when I would be in America. At first he said fine. But when I gace a specific time he said he would ahve me arrested if I showed at his school. Many Kenpo people knew I was coming, and none stepped up. To date I have chosen off 3 Kenpo black belts and all have folded- Steve Shaffer, Ed Parker, and Ron Wilstein. O set a time and date with Ron Wilstein. I walked into his school alone- he had his assistant say Wilstein had an injury and couldn’t make it. Look at clutching feathers response- Steve Shaffer. I have videos up undr Bad Kenpo Techniques, a tota; of five. The first 2 which are no number and #1 are merely informative. My other ones critiques Kenpo and other martail arts. Kenpo is 90% BS. The techniques are almost worthless, kata is for idiots, and much of the terminology is pseudoscience.
      I destroyed my right shoulder in a motorcycle accident in Thailand. My total rehab should be 4 months to Okay, and 6 months to full use- 4 hours of arthroscopic surgery.
      Before you use terms like keyboard warrior you had better know your facts. And I will call bullshit when I see it or hear ir- your stories are bullshit, at least in the sense of real combat.

  385. Robert, how old are you? Looking at the comments you’re up there in age right, not bad, I just had no idea who I’m talking to.

    I called you a fan boy, but if you’re from 60s and what not, you’re not a boy. I’m 31.

    My roots in Kenpo are Chuck Sullivan, Vic LeRoux, and Steve Mohammad(BKF). My other side is East Coast in NYC with my instructor and all the greats he trained with. Inosanto is very good friends with Chuck and Vic

  386. I looked at a black guy named Payne at PUMA Karate- I think that was it, I was not impressed. Just a rehash of Kenpo. It had the usual assumptions that Kenpo always makes. There are no assumptions in a fight on the street- way too many variables.I am 63.

  387. LOL. That’s cool. You’re entitled to think whatever you want. That man is about as bad ass as you get. He’s 56. You’d have to be a super amazing 63 old man to do much of anything against him. He served in the military, street fights around the world and karate tournaments, fights on the ship, taught special forces ,etc. All while being a chef,LOL. To this day he gets invited and escorted by Japanese Embassy to teach a lesson in Shotokan Karate. He’s a bad dude. Not washed up or broken either. Trained black belt in Judo since 8 years old, Sambo trained, Kyokushin Karate, Shotokan with major bad asses. If you’re a real person you’re invited to come check him out. If you wanna throw down, he’d probably be more than happy enough to oblige. That’s reasonable with your age difference. I think you’re way out ta your league with that one. But you can estimate before asking him any fight requests. I would not be surprised to see a tail whooping. It wouldn’t even excite me really. Or we just have some fun and train together.
    Please, where are your vids? I won’t comment unless you like me to. Be easy sir 😉

    Payne lives by the name. Hit him up on Facebook. He always like a good conversation.

    • I never said there are not Kenpo guys that can fight- I listed several. But most cannot. MAybe Payne can fight. What is interesting is I feel Shotokan is a weak system due to it’s bad blocking and ounching/kicking concepts. But the Kyokushin is interesting. Is it a good system” No. It has very bad ideas, BIT, they do hit each other and that is worth a ton. Just that they can take a shot is worth a lot. Most have NEVR been hit for real. They get hit for real and everybody runs in”Oh man are you okay? Get him an aspirin.” Counterproductive to fighting.

  388. Aren’t you too old and wise to be picking fights? You should be wise now after over “100 street fights.” LOL That’s why I have a hard time believing your sincerity and knowledge. When you bad you don’t have to talk. I hopped on this thread to read about Ed Parker good and bad. Not get in a war of words and see who got the bigger dick,hahaha. At the end of the day it doesn’t really matter. But it’s entertaining I guess.

    Why don’t you like Kenpo so much? Its like a deep hate I don’t quite get, haha. Its an art you have chosen to not practice and that’s fine. What do you practice by the way?

    • I used to be a bouncer also- about 20 fihhts. I had some fights in LA and Oregon- maybe 20 more, and all protecting people or myself- a couple of robbery attempts. I live in Northern Thailand, a very violent country. Don’t believe the travel brochures. I was here for the mini-civil war thet had. I have had 25 fights peeling Thai men off of Thai women while beating the shit out of the female (go to a site called Stomp from Singapore and then “Thai man uses muay thai on gorlfriend”. I think just put in Stomp and the title). And I mean knees on the chest punching the girl’s face in. I was attacked several times for wearing a yellow shirt- there are two main parties here, the “Red Shirts” or “Thai Rak Thai” and the “Yelleow shirts” or “Panameet,” I would walk my dogs at night when it was cooler, so I wore bright easy to see t shirts. I was attacked by Red Shirts 3 times for wearing a yellow shirt and by mulyiple attackers. But I had a Rottweiler cross and a pure German shepherd. I walked with a 3 foot steel pipe. That is how I got in fights. I did not start them, but I finished them.
      A friend of mine moved here. He confronted me one day and said “Bob, I used to think you made this shit up, but I could get in a fight here every day without even trying.” I hope that explains that part.
      So Why I don’t like Kenpo? It a McDojo. The techniques are garbage and a waste of time. The “scientific” concepts are not scientific at all. All cults LOVE lots of terminology. I feel people are being ripped off by Kenpo, and most systems. I see the Internet littered with Master Wong, Nick Drossos, Charm City Karate, and numerous other people that know nothing about fighting. And they lie!! Charm City Karate has this story about how the owner beat a BJJ guy. Where’s the video? They all make claims, but no proof. I can at least prove several altercations buy being arrested and hospital records, I say this a lot- you will make a critical life changing decision on your training, and when the training is wrong you make a bad decision. People really believe these BS stories from Mills and others. I do not want to see people lose money for bullshit teaching or get hurt.
      And as I aave said before I am in good company- the Gracies, Bas Ruten, and Joe Rogan. The average person would be far better suited byu kick boxing mixed with some dirty fighting and a ground game. To me the current best proponents of this would be Paul Vunak and Lee Morrison (I am not sure of Morrison’s name, he does “combatives and is British). And there are others like Larry Hartsell’s material, Ron Balicki, and mosy JKD people.
      Does that explain it? Why buy a wrecked car when for the same money you can have a Porsche.

  389. What assumptions are you referring to in what Sifu Payne was presenting? Variable in real fights is alwaysbwhat he talks about and teaches. We don’t do a bunch choreography. Because I was taught that way I really don’t know how to do choreografied demos. I am most comfortable being spontaneous and and dealing with spontaneous attacks. BUT if your presentingba concept to practice don’t you have to assume some variables to be able to do it?
    Its like saying let’s do a punch, but your hands are tied together… You can’t. Or do a kimura lock (use garame) while you have back control…. You’d have to have a totally different position to assume to be able to practice it, right? Or am I not getting it?

    • This a fine point of fighting that Kenpo as taught does not have a clue about. Say Five Swords- I hit you in the stomach, you bend over. Maybe. There is a refinement from full contact that they react to what has actually happened and what “should happen.” And as Kenpo wastes so much time on idiotic terminology, katas (forms), and stupid techniques that refinement never arrives. Kenpoists never learn how to fight. And any Kenpo practitioner never uses a Kenpo technique to win a fight. I hear it talked about, but it has never been shown. BArt Vale never used one in the ring. Chucl Liddell never uswed oine, though he is keMpo, now keNpo. I always hear stories, but no proof. If Kenpo techniques work it should be in “real time.” Any Kenpo people winning fights has mostly come from boxing hands and some kicking. A Kenpo technique is never used, and never will be. As to Mr. Payne (good name for an MA guy) what I saw was “I do this and you do that”- not how it works. But it was very limited viewing so I could be wrong. But any MA person is far better served learning realistic strikes (no reverse tiger’s mouths) and head motion and footwork.
      Kenpo is a cult, and acts like one. Blind obedience to myths that never happened. Very little thought is allowed in.

    • Just a couple of other points: You say Greg Payne has all these accomplishmants, which are probably true. He has been all over the world and knows many arts, And he is a chef in the military, I am presuming navy but could be wrong. A martail arts chef in the military who is a major bad ass is the plot line from Steven Seagal’s “Under Seige.” Did that ever dawn on you?
      Now a very troubling issue, and so you do not have to read this whole thread. Was Ed PArker a black belt? I say no by video evidence. But we know for sure that he was promoted to 5ht. by friends and then to 10th. by friends, and that is indisputable. So now everybody breaks off. Here are some 10th. degree Kenpo people- Chuck Sullivan. Richard “Huk” Planas, Joe Palanzo. Larry Tatum, Vic Leroux, Albert Cornejo, and several others. The Kenpo break up has produced more 10th. degreed than the Japanese Judo Federarion has had in 100 years, and by far. So were these people just following people just following Ed;s business model? And I know all of these people personaly but Tatum who I barely know.
      So where are the trophies? Where are the championships in real combat? Point tournaments are bullshit and destroy fighhting abilities as opposed to enhancing them.
      Now you say you are IKCA. From what I can tell that is a video system that anybody can buy. What are the certification protocols? What are the standards? How much hands on time is there?
      To me the bottom kine is that Ed Parker threw it out these and it was students that were dedicated and not him. The students surpassed the master. And remember I was there. I was the youngest person ever on the Santa Monica Kenpo sparring team under Norm Pattiz. I believe I was the youngest teacher they ever had at that time.So please explain to me how after me being there for a total of six years that I only saw Ed Parker teach for a total of less than 2 hours? Wiuxard of Oz, the man behind the curtain. When you’re mystical: there’s noting to prove, and everythibg to lose by trying to prove it.

    • Okay, as I am injured I don’t have a lot to do. So I do research. This is why I write this stuff, and it’s to help MA, not hurt it. This will be long
      Cults: I just watched a ceremony where a person was promoted to a very high ranking black belt in American Kenpo. There were totems/symbols all over the walls. Their gis had patches all over them, They were on the back, the front, the arms, and on the legs. Now you must remember that in a cult symbols and terminology are very important. But so is some form of religious veneration.
      So they passed this person’s future belt around for all to see and touch like it was the baby Jesus. They were told that if anybody had any comments, which I’m sure would be to talk about the”mystical” nature of the belt, to feel free to speak. Now I must admit that I sort of sped through this as I was starting to be both offended and nauseous at the same time. At this juncture I want to add that I toally understand respect for things accomplished, but I do not deify anybody or anything. The effect was palpable. All were in awe. This was a far cry from the Kenpo I knew. We congratulated people on belt promotions. I was there when Scott Loring got his 3rd. dan; he had just gotten back from National Guard service as I remember it. I was proud because I had the honor of having trained under him. But I never thought he was one of the Apostles. And I could write a lot more.
      So then I go to some very recent Kenpo sparring videos. I almost puked. There was the cheering, the shouts of encouragement, and points being scored that were at the very least embarassing, and for competitors and referees. I was at a breakfast with some Kenpo people a few years back, like 25 years ago. Bill Wallace was with us. I had mentioned how bad the standards had become since the 60’s and when I used to do point sparring. So they asked Bill. They seemed surprised that Bill totally agreed with me. He talked about no form, no power, no style, and a flick that made contact was a point now. Well it hasn’t gotten any better. The competitor that won was doing like a leaping chop over the top of the guy he was fighting. This shot would not have knocked a wino off of a bar stool, but he got his points. He got the cheers. He got the adulation of the crowd, and if he ever got in a REAL FIGHT he ‘d getting fucking killed. Aside from the fact that all was ridiculous there was no follow through or any combinations. When one felt they had a point after a clash they threw the hand that dealt this death blow up in the air in victory. I guess they never heard of a counter-punch or kick.
      So after this I am watching a Kenpo “MASTER” talk about Kenpo, and believe me Kenpo guys love to talk, but not much on action. So he is talking about the long-term effects of Kenpo, of how when in a real fight it will be like the opponent will be in slow motion. That through Kenpo you will prevail and hit all your targets. Really? From what methodology? Non-contact play fighting? Kata? Doing long techniques on people that don’t move or counter? I hope you see my points here. And this is in the majority of MA styles.
      So I went further, and as I am sort of house bound for awhile, why not? I checked out the IKCA program. This is the first time I have ever looked at it, and this is verified by previous comments on this thread. They have things like “distance learning.” Is that like distance tennis? MA is a “feel” dependent thing. Little fine points are critical to advance. MA is not learned from DVDs unless you have a strong background and a partner who is skilled. You cannot teach yourself MA, that is unless you are nuts and want to believe that you are getting better.
      So how do you know you have advanced? You send them a video of your performance. I will explain how completely absurd that is. I was on a promotion board in about 1972. I was sitting next to Ed Parker. Now a test in MA is greatly dependent on the person giving the test, So the test started. The person was going for green I believe. The guy giving the test had about as much business wearing a black belt as my cat had doing brain surgery. I feel that Ed Parker saw my face palm and heard me cussing inside of my head. So after a few minutes of this crap Ed taps me and says “you want to take over Bob?” I said “Sure.” So I stepped up. I hit the guy in the chest and knocked him down, but not my hardest shot. I told him “that will be the tone of this test. I want you to hit me in the body. If you hit me in the face we have a problem. Do you understand?” He nodded yes. So when we were discussing the test Ed said to me “What do you think Bob? Yes or no?” So I told him he is not the flashiest guy out there, but he can hit and take a shot. I say pass him.” So he got his belt This may not be exactly what was said, but close. So how do you know how hard somebody punches or kicks on a video? How do you determine their real talents on a video? How do know their level of conditioning when you can stop and start the video and do it in steps? Well that’s easy. You can come to the yearly seminar with hundreds of others and be checked out. Really?
      Now to be fair I will use another example. There is a new gunslinger on the block- Victor Marx. He does these nifty gun and knife take aways- very flashy and well choreographed. But I checked his system. It is like “Cheshu Do?” I watched there blue belt self-defense techniques. I felt that gagging in my throat again and the need for pain killers. What iI saw was APPALLING!!! No power, no form, and no clue!!! But they are doing great.
      Then I looked at I believe GKR or GRK?- what a load of crap. A total marketing system. And they go heavy for the “family that does Karate” mantra.
      When I train I want to see some black eyes. I want to see some blood on the mats. I do not want to see some goofy fucking picture of a nerd wearing a black belt with 6 red or yellow stripes on it with a multi-colored gi that has a shit eating grin that says “bring the whole family.” To him I say FUCK YOU!!!!!! I wore a black gi, black belt, and no patches. I did not want to look like Liberace.
      People are getting screwed out of their money all over the Internet by bad ideas. They are getting their lives put in danger. MA takes work and some blood and sweat, and not a contract at the Everybody’s Happy Here Karate Center at a strip mall.
      Now do you understand? And Kenpo is just as guilty of it as so many others. It is a cult with all the trappings of a cult: Symbols, terminology, pseudoscience, ceremonies, increases in authority, spiritual or religious ideas, apostle like leaders, and lots of lies by unproven fighters. And I am not a Christain so I am not taking that route.

  390. Mr. Casey,
    Thank you for a brief moment of clarity and truth among these many sad, vitriolic anti-Ed Parker comments.

    Steve Shaffer

  391. See, we CAN talk! Hahaha We can have a decent conversation.

    I have never seen the movie, but I have to now, haha. Yes, he was Navy. BUT Segal ain’t black, LOL.

    I agree with you that an over abundant terminology is overkill and unnecessary. It doesn’t help you in a fight. But it can help in understanding how you generate power and why you do things. GM Chuck and Vic are not big at all on terminology either. We use maybe 4-6 important terms. Remember, the arts is more than just fighting. It’s to spark other aspects in someone’s life. Some people think complexity is gaining more intelligence, but I don’t think really. Don’t over complicate yourself that much. Simplicity is complexity and complexity is simplicity. The process I have gone through in Kenpo has made me look at my other experiences in life much more differently and has truly helped me. The simplicity of IKCA Kenpo is what is fantastic.

    I was not taught how to point spar. At PUMA we hit, we hit hard, we hit with purpose. Our sparring takes more face of a Kyokushin Karate format and more mixed with grappling when training with other students with that training. We typically treat it like a street fight. We also train to have good clean technique. Good footwork, power, clean strikes, etc.

    The DVDs that Chuck and Vic developed is very thorough. The biggest concern they have is great basics. Kenpo changed tons over the years as you said. It was basic and devastating at the beginning; that’s the version which they want to pass along. The system is fantastic in that it really is just a base. If you have other training, you can fit it in the Kenpo framework effortlessly really.

    Long distance learning is tough no matter what it is you do. I’m taking online courses in college right now. I hit roadblocks and it’s tough. With a martial art its no different.

    IKCA makes the long distance student send rank tests in to be evaluated. Multiple angles are needed and its really about having sharp basics. The rest comes together. If you have a partner to train with it makes it way better obviously. If you don’t, they suggest making or buying a dummy to work on. It works, but you’re not going to develop the greatest practitioners of all time. The brotherhood is always there also. They will have tools to defend themselves and able to learn an art they really like that may not be available where they live. Gracie Academy has a similar thing I believe online. It works, and there are different ways to evaluate. And each individual is different and has to be evaluated differently.

    You generalize Kenpoists a little too much. But you’ve experienced it. I can only talk about my own experience. I learned Kenpo from a very seasoned martial artist and fighter. I learned in small rooms and hard floors with tons of hard hits. I’ve broken bones, sweat buckets, bled all over, contusions, etc. My instructor snapped my nose with a hammer fist demonstrations in class. I didn’t cry, I didnt even blink. I just said give me a sec, went to the bathroom and reset my nose as best I could to make it straight and hurried back to class. Payne apologozed, but said i shouldnt have moved,LOL.(i didnt.) When we fell, Payne would just say, “get up, you’ll be aight.” When we said we were going to other schools to see what and how they trained or fight/spar with their guys he’d just say, “don’t embarrass me.” Those words stick with me with everything I do. I came back only one time with a bad story and that day wasn’t so great, LOL.

    Bottom line if you train well, taught right, and taught to be tough, you gonna be aight. Its not necessarily the art. My Kenpo is tight, my Kenpo is real. My Kenpo is fast. Its my responsibility to make it flow through me and represent. Its my responsibility to be the best student I can be even as I teach.

    Kenpo techniques do not work in a fight with experienced fighters or on the street even like we practice. But you should know how to follow up so many strikes and combinations effortlessly/spontaneously. Your basics should be tight. If they are, real fights are over pretty quick, 1-2 strikes. Didn’t even get to break a sweat,LOL. You’re practice worked, not your practice wasn’t used.

    Osu.

  392. Are you Joshua or Jose Pestaner? It seemd there were two of you on the videos I saw. As to Sanuces Ryu Jiu Jitsu- not impressed at all. Already knew about it. Saw Moses Powell doing a boxing drill- he did not have a clue as to what he was doing. He did not understand boxing. Granted a short clip but the way he defended a jab had bad mechanics. I also do not feel the techniques I saw would ever work in real time, and some were just dumb- guy doing them had a Spanish surname and a guy named Logan.
    Kyokushinkai Karate- As I have always said they get hit and that’s worth a lot, but a very limited system with bad blocking, no head movement, and basically a Mexican stand off.
    Enshin Karate- sort of like Kyokushinkai, but I feel the hands are a little better as far as punching. Some of the blocking is a little better, but Enshin and Kyo. are both wide open for hooks and upper cuts. I call it “box theory”- they are playing in the same box and same rules so they cannot handle any variables. I also like Enshin’s kicking better.
    I never saw any sparring from you or Payne. All I saw was run of the mill Kenpo techniques. And you know my thoughts on that.
    I looked at the entire IKCA package. I checked all the techniques and requirements for each belt level. Some of the techniques I did not know by name. The best one I saw in there was the Crenshaw “high five.” That one can work with a lot of forward pressure. But they spend way too much time on a stupid blocking system and all the idiotic stances. A twist stance is just stupid. And who cares about wide kneel or close kneel? It does not mean anything. It is still way too top heavy with impractical stuff and superfluous ideas. I mean why waste time on the techniques when you yourself said a whole technique will not work on the street with a good fighter?
    Watch a guy from England named Lee Morrison. He does modern combatives. He comes from the style of “I will mess you up.” You need the five basic punches, efficient blocking, a few elbow angles, two or three kicks (none leaping), some good dirty fighting (biting included and finger breaking and eye gouging, and a grappling game.
    I also hate gis. In Kyokushinkai and Enshin they are way too “gi dependent.”
    Gi dependency is in two ways- mental and physical. Physical is always grabbing them. Mental is the “Superman suit” idea. Menatally you get used to the snap and the feel. I have not used a gi in decades. I do not think I even have one anymore. I would use one for judo, but even for judo I would spend 50% of the time out of gi.
    So send a video. I am setting up another gmail account. When I set it up I’ll give it to you. I can always cancel it later. And if i get hate mail I do not want it on main account that is 10 years old.
    You also said fights are over in 1-2 strikes? No, they are not. They could be, but you almost never get that happening. I do have an almost guaranteed way to knock people out and have done it twice- head butt the jerk with a motorcucle on- it works. I guess I see some of your comments as more “wishful thinking” than reality based. A common problem in MA.

  393. Robert,

    I’ve had fun talking about our conversation to my students.

    I don’t think you mean to be talking about martial arts at all really. Maybe you are meaning to categorize Apocalyptic Warfare Training or Bareknuckle Fighting training,haha. As an art: there should be so much richness about it. It often is more than just self defense. There’s a lot to learn in those lessons, forms, katas, drills etc. Most people don’t stick around for years to learn self defense techniques. Humans need a lot more than that. Friendship, flexibility, mental and physical challenge, confidence, increased self confidence, less anger in their life, people with similar interests, a family, people to look up to, etc.

    IKCA basics are pretty simple. “Those stances.” There are only 4. They are natural stances you go into often without even knowing. BUT you’re never in them for long periods of time. For split seconds. Breaking down the stances let you recognize a bunch of possibilities that you may otherwise never notice.

    Kyokushin “have no head movement” Sanuces is just box theory, judo has too much gi reliance. You’ve had high praise for BJJ. They don’t have any box theory, no head movement and use a GI all the time. I don’t understand what you like. Don’t think it’s anything. C’mon brother, stand up for something. You’re a fighter with nothing to protect and you want to talk badly of others that proudly defend something.

    My brother is Joe(Jose). He hates gis. If he could, he’d never wear one. He’d like to abolish it. But women love guys in uniform and many people use uniforms as way of bringing others together. Just look at any military. Hard to imagine the structure if the whole military trained and went to battle in civilian clothes. I am not trained in how to use a GI as a weapon. I know the basics of it, but not a ton. I like my GI. I like a nice heavy sturdy GI. I admit. That’s me and I am not shy about it. My wife first saw me in a GI, and that was the beginning of me reeling her in,LOL. Had she seen me training these other men fighting in a small apartment gym in street clothes she probably would have thought it was a street fight and wanted nothing to do with me. Martial is coming from military, so it is not wrong by any means to use a uniform or GI.

    I am extremely comfortable fighting out of a GI. I feel just as comfortable fighting in an 800 dollar suit(which is what I did in my security/bouncing work. I was trained to even wear my clothes a certain way so I can fight any time something jumps off. But I’m trained a little uniquely, still very much a Kenpoist ????

    Moses Powell, William Oliver, Ronald Duncan, Prof. King, Thomas Lapuppet are all cats from rough bouroughs of NYC. They didn’t survive and they didn’t get followed by a many other people because they got beat up and their stuff didnt/doesn’t work. These cats whooped up and were gangsters at it. They got challenged evwrywhere. If you couldn’t drop everything and rumble, you were a joke. You don’t get followed in NYC if you’re a farse. I don’t think you did enough challenging as you were coming up. You could have met some special talents. And just so you know, I’m a little bias. I like and look up to some of the most amazing black martial artists. I don’t care much for the talented white martial artists. And a specific reason for that: the great black martial artists move and have style. They juke and they Bob; they’re slick, quick and mean. They had amazing natural athleticism and awareness for their arts. They had great minds who harnessed the mind and body into one. You don’t have the same quantity of great white martial artists in a variety of arts who own what they do. Its a common joke, white men can’t jump can’t dance, have no rhythm and have 2 left feet. Obviously this is not all true, but I see it in great frequency. If you couldn’t move, these cats would roast you. Boxing was huge in NYC. Moses Powell was a golden gloves boxer, I can’t say for the others because I don’t know, but my instructor was also. You may not catch the quickness or head movement, but Payne gots a ton. If you sit, you getting bit quick.

    My brother is 5 ft tall, 100lbs. His training better have some value or he is getting his ass beat quick. Well, he’s very quick with hands, kicks, takedowns and specifically leg locks, ankle locks and heel hooks. He breaks you very quickly. It was hilarious to me when he was in high school he was surrounded by boys that were the size of linemen. They followed and respected him and would come to the garage to learn and spar. The only way it happened were challenges he got at school. His arts did their thing and still do. I gotta tell him to come down notches because beginning students are not ready for the stuff he wants to show and teach. We joke, he’s the grappler, I’m the striker, we’re both Kenpoists. We look very different, but same base. By design too. We were taught not to look the same and that was hownit was supposed to be.

    The names I gave you, they all move super slick. You could have fought any of them 20-30 years ago. You’d be a different person probably. Highlight clips don’t show everything. Rarely do. There are still some greats out there, but you don’t find them around every corner.

    Grappling is an art that requires touch to immobilize in some respect to be able to carry out a specific technique. Striking does not. The sensitivity required to be a great striker is far different than a grappler. It requires senses that many grapplers never hone. Many people who study striking never do either. Its extremely difficult to pass on. Grappling is a whole lot easier to pass down especially in ground fighting(ne waza): this goes there, move that, pass this way, boom. Shift your body this way, place hand here, place leg here, boom. It takes special talent to teach and pass on to a capable persons to be able to execute great striking concepts and combinations. You don’t find them in great numbers.

    If fights are not ending quickly for you , what are you doing? I don’t know if what you have been training is very practical or efficient. In my own experiences things only last longer because I haven’t wanted to hurt someone else badly and opted to control to get them to cool down or my big boys to help haul them off or wait for MPD to pick them up. I hate paperwork and going to court. Waste of my time.

    Yah send me an email: PUMA.KENPO@GMAIL.COM

    I’ll show you a bit of me doing some fighting. Butnim sure it still won’t be real for you,LOL. You too gangsta for me, hahaha. Where are your clips, I wanna see.

    • Joshua. I feel you have misinterpreted many things I have said and the reason is twofold. First you are trying to defend Kenpo which defends you. Second you do not grasp what I am talking about.
      I have said some good things about many systems, but all have weaknesses for street fighting. You said I don’t like judo- WRONG!!! I rate it above BJJ which I think is a truely gtreat art. I like JKD, judo, boxing, muay thai, kali, escrima, panantukan and pananjakman, and boxing. There are many other arts I am curious about that look pretty good. But there are hyped arts that are popular now that I think are weak. A lot of people are nuts about Krav Maga- I think it’s a joke. It is all preset techniques with no resistance and people being certified to teach in 2 years. I have seen them doing escapes from holds where they do not do the hold correctly and know nothing about grappling. But I have seen KM do a few things I liked. In Kenpo I see Charm City Karate all over the Internet. I saw “Mr. James” escaping from what he called a “rear choke.” It was a rear shoulder grab- he didn’t have a clue as to what he was talking about. Victor Marx and Keichu Do is popular- the system is crap and useless. There is big one called GKR- it is a mass marketing system and ridiculous. Should one be quiet about MA fraud? On arts I do not know about I do not say anything, Kappo Jutsu, Qinna and on several other arts I stay quiet as I do not know about them.
      As to “box theory”- box theory relies on the fact that all of the martail arts in it are equal but for different ranges of combat. So if I am at kicking range I am in the muay thai box. If I am in checking and trapping range I am in the Kali/JKD box. If I am grappling I am in the judo/BJJ box. You have to be able to move from box to box according to the range you are in and the size and type of fighter you are dealing with. If I am stand up grappling with a 150 pound guy I will dominate with weight. If I am in a stand up grappling with a guy 350 I dominate with filth and say keena mutai and kali. As I said. no box is superior, but you must adapt. Got it?
      Now let’s have a reality check here. So now you say “no videos of me.” Why not? I have a simple answer. You claim to be a bouncer. Well Mionfongo and I have both done this. You say you are 5’6″ and say 140. The last thing a bar or night club wnats is punching or kicking people. They want guys that can muscle people out of the door. You would only be able to punch and kick to solve a problem. 140 poundsa will have a HUGE problem with say 230 pounds. At one club I was the “little guy” ay 6 feet and 225 pounds. No club would hire you to be a bouncer that has an ounce of sanity. All clubs that are reputable have CCTV all over the place. I actually testified as an expert witness at a case and it was the CCTV and me that won the case for the bar. I will not bore you with the details,. So I do not know where you are bouncing, but if I were the manager there is no way I would hire you. I have been told that Richard Huk Planas had a job as a bouncer and he said that he had problems with the “big boys” as far as getting them out the door. And this was people that respected him. Huk was about 5’8″ to 5’9″and 165 to my best estimate. That is a lot bigger than you. So where do you bounce?
      So to the real issue here- Steve Shaffer says he will meet me and then he starts crying and say if I show he’ll have me arrested. Kevin Harshman says I have threatened people. Who? And Kevin, who is an obvious chicken shit like Steve Shaffer tried to pass me off to people I have never talked to. Kevin tried to pass me over to Mike Pick. Shaffer tried to pass me to some guy in Texas- true cowards. I threatened Snibbs Jervey for talking shit about my wife and kids. Was I rude at times? Yes. Was I aggressive? Yes. Was I accurate? Yes. Then you have Mike Bennett who did some half assed video with SteveShaffer- he too should shut up and go to a real MA school. Mills Crenshaw tells tales that a drunk kid with Downs syndrome would not believe.I feel he has been totally discredited by not only me but by the Tracy’s (notice he never posts anymore?).
      So to the point- many of your responses are merely Kenpo apologetics. I do not believe what yoiu are saying for a second. I have seen videos of Greg Payne and it’s just Kenpo warmed over. I have seen you and it’s the same stuff. Now it’s “no videos of me.” What are you hiding? So no, I doubt your tales of bare knuckle barvado, blood on the mats, and your fighting skills. And I do not believe that you are a bouncer. You may be a bouncer, but I would never hire somebody your size.
      So when ever push comes to shove with the Kenpo crowd they seem to find a way to wiggle out of a real test of their skills. Whenevr they are criticized they go to the “a real martial artist does not talk like that ” defense. But when looks out over the vast world of the Internet real martial artists do talk. If an MA teacher does care they speak out so innocent people do not get hurt. That is why they now have the BJJ police calling people out on their bullshit and going to schools and call ing “bullshit.” That is why there is there has been the “Gracie challenge” for decafes. That is why Brude Lee said on the cover of I believe Black Belt magazine “change or die.” That is also why there is competition. So to me no video, no acceptance of my friendly challenge, and all this posturing screams out BULLSHIT!!!

  394. This is for Joshua.
    Some of your post seem sarcastic to me.
    Correct me if I’m wrong, but your lol while your responding to Robert Libby is like your making fun of him.
    Your “hood” rap and referencing is outta line bro.
    See, I knew the NYC bad asses you mentioned.
    Yup, La Puppet, Cofield, Hamilton and many others.
    Not to brag, but I was the first and only “cracker” to train with Karriem Allah in the KA system.
    Remember him?
    Furthermore, I got my respect with the KA crew which were some very BAD dudes.
    In short, been there-done that.
    Now, in one of your post you are encouraging Robert to look up Greg Payne stating that Mr. Payne is would accommodate Robert if there was need to test himself.
    Robert is in another country, I’m not.
    In fact. I’m in Delaware now.
    Anyone challenges Robert Libby can count me in as his replacement.
    Not that he’s asked me, just that I’m willing to step up.
    What anyone of you “doubter” and “instigators” get in me is a Martial Artist that can fight.
    Robert Libby is the real deal.
    He’s in his 60’s and has had surgeries due to decades of hard core training and real World street experience.
    And, even now would bust up the “talkers” on this forum that have been trying to make a mockery of him and his opinions.
    But, I’m the same age as Master Payne and from what I saw on YouTube in better shape, condition, and skilled.
    I say this respectfully, but the truth only bends one way.
    So Joshua, if your instructor Greg Payne is in need of an opponent or you believe that his skills surpass those of Robert Libby talk to me.
    While I’m not here to degrade anyone nor their skills, the abuse on Mr. Libby has to cease.
    And no, I’m not posting any videos of me.
    The only video will be one where I am involved in showcasing my skills by knocking unconscious some “over the hill” poser with real skills, but decades past their prime because they don’t train hard anymore.
    In defense of a real authority on combat Robert Libby.

  395. yeah the abuse on libby has to stop… but let the stomping on parker continue,,,,,smdh

  396. Welcome to the conversation. It wasn’t all in sarcasm actually. Most of what I said was with a lot of respect. My instructor loves Lil KA. He still talks about him.

    What do you and Robert Libby do? It was Libby saying everyone on the thread and basically any martial artist can’t fight in the street or in a ring. I’ve been interested in hearing Mr. Libby’s take on martial arts. I still have yet to read what he does or how he practices. He wants to help all martial artists with his experience. Great, What do you do? I don’t really care to bash. Can someone just tell me?!LOL

    Absolutely not right for me to put someone into a fight without their knowledge. But if you’d like to talk with Payne, he’d probably love it. Be careful how you judge someone. You can be very surprised. If you still want to challenge a fight, go right ahead and ask yourself. He’s cool. He’s not the type to gloat either. You’re not too far either, so if you wanna come down that’s cool. We got great sushi in the area too.

    If you’ve been around for as long as you say, you should know that it doesn’t really matter how much you bench or how far you can run that wins a fight. Or am I wrong? What do you believe is needed to be adequate in real live street fights and in competition?

    I don’t care too much to see video of you guys, but if you’re going to down play everyone, you should display some dynamite stuff. Its kind of silly Libby says this and that sucks and I watch that guy and he sucks: OK, and who are you? I want to see how spectacular you are now since you talk yourself up so well. I’m interested, isn’t that what you guys wanted to do?

    What’s your training background?

    Payne taught me when I first started, its not how hard you train, but how consistent you are. If you train hardcore for long periods of time, you’re going to break eventually. We train for longevity. And to have a great pipe….LOL! Train hard and be all broken is not a the goal of martial arts training.

    Please tell me more. I love the history.

    • Irish Billy Mack

      Well, well Mr. Pestaner.
      Yup, yours truly is back… IRISH BILLY MACK!
      Remember me, Joshie?
      I’m now a 5″9, 250 pound fat slob who lost his job, girlfriend, and has had to work tending bar in Irish Pub’s, Burger and Beer Joints, and standing around the door as grappa types walk in to watch go go dancers gyrate.
      I’ve been sucker punched, attacked by multiple people, and hit on the collar bone by a wrench because some guy’s wife said I had nice teeth.
      And, how are YOU doing?

  397. LOL, yes Kevin.
    Honestly, I didn’t look for this thread. I stumbled on it. History is interesting. Martial arts history is not so well documented. Hearing different sides of Ed Parker or different views is important. I didn’t know him. But he was a great teacher and created concepts that’s weren’t really around. Did he steal them? Its kind of hard to steal. You can steal bits, but a whole system like this thread in the beginning suggests would be a very difficult task. I’d love to know more about that.
    I don’t diss or putdown Libby. But if you’re going to say everything in the world sucks(and your well and able to have your own opinion) at least have something to show for it. Just like with the Ed Parker story(I want to know more), I want to know more about Libby and what he did/does and be able to compare with what I already know or have seen. Libby seems to be knowledgeable and maybe there are things I can learn or add to what I do. I’m a student of the science. I respect those before me. He’s knocking on some of my favorites, so please show me more! I love seeing and learning different perspectives.

  398. Monfongo, where you from? Honduras? Dominican? I ask cuz the name you posted as.

  399. Kevin, maybe what you do not realoze is the yalking about your deity Ed Parker has really calmed down a lot. And maybe what you eill never understand is that while Ed stood around at tournaments we were fighting. While Ed collected the cash we were the ones earning. While he was hanging out we were training.
    So let;s be blunt- you need to shut up and go sit at the kiddy table while the adults are talking. People like you, Steve Shaffer, Mile Bennett, and Millls Crenshaw are a disgrace to martial arts.

  400. Monfongo my brother in arms- WOW!!!! Thanks for stepping up for me. I showed this to my wife and she got somewhat teary eyed. Thank you so much for the loyalty and respect. Man this has been a mental war.
    But I do feel a lot has been accomplished. If one reads this analytically it shows what is going on today. There is far too much chest thumping from pseudo martial artists that just do not have the goods and never did. That the “war stories” of MA people that are incompetent are to be stayed away from. Hopefully somebody will read this and take a long hard look at what they are learning and from who. Hopefully somebody will see they are spending there money on garbage that does not work.
    Also remember that I have your back if necessary!!!!
    Once again in the words of ZZ Top- MUCHAS GRACIAS AMIGO!!!!!!!

  401. Monfongo and Libby,

    It seems you have had bad experiences in your martial arts/self defense journey. That’s OK and you have your views. Don’t assume because other people train that they have no idea about reality, fighting, or even have the same views as you. Have you thought that there MAYBE other martial artists who train in traditional systems have the same views as you? Have you thought that there have been changes to those systems to address the same concerns you bring up? There are. I won’t say there are tons. But they very much do exist.

    I don’t care to continue the bash talks with you guys. I’d like to learn about what it is that you do. How do you train for real life situations? Do you follow any system? I know you don’t wear gis. JKD and many Chinese Martial Arts and Filipino Martial Arts, even Russians do not either. I’m leaving out others because there are tons. They just aren’t as popular usually. What do you think of Combat Sambo? There are martial artists that think on similar lines as you. You want to get people to look at how they train and see if it’s real enough. Great, how do you (Monfongo and Libby) do that? Other systems have their own mapped out ways of how they try to address that across the board. So far all things discussed, you think they are all pathetic. So I ask again humbly, how do you do this?

    If you do not feel comfortable addressing answers on this thread, email me. I will not repost anywhere. I’m just a student that enjoys learning and being diverse.

    Osu.

  402. hey robert anytime you feel froggy enough to make me shut up,, my address is 1049 s;blaine ave indianapolis ind 46221

  403. Tough talk while you know I am in Thailand and just had a massive shoulder surgery! Where was your big challenge when I announced publicly I was coming out? Were you calling Steve Shaffer? You are such a chicken shit!!!

  404. Robert,

    I was just curious if you have ever heard of Tiger Muay Thai based in Thailand and what their reputation is over there. I don’t get a chance to speak to many people from Thailand other than the gym I train at. The Muay Thai and bjj training is intense and I enjoy it but the older I get the more difficult it seems to be lol. The bjj gym I have been training at for the past 2 years is affiliated with them.

  405. Kevin Harshman like I told Joshua, I happen to be in Delaware.
    I am not in Asia like Robert, and if Robert doesn’t mind I am more than happy to “step in” for him.
    I have nothing against you personally, however way too many people on this forum have decided to make Mr. Libby their “scapegoat”.
    Please be very careful how you respond to this post and how you address me.

  406. Joshua,
    I will try to answer some of your questions.
    Part Irish, Italian/Dominican.
    While I was training in traditional MA, I also trained at the local PAL boxing, those combined skills enabled me to handle the brutal KA system training on Springfield Ave. in Newark, NJ.
    I look Caucasian, so as you might imagine, Karriem and his crew tested my resolve.
    Fact…I told all the “naysayers” that Karriem was good enough to last, and possibly defeat PKA champion Jeff Smith.
    As you may or may not know, the fight was offered to legendary champion Joe Lewis.
    For unknown reasons that did not pan out so Smith took the fight.
    Karriem had 0 fight experience when he fought Smith, outside of some tournaments.
    BUT, KARRIEM COULD FIGHT!
    And, he could box.
    Although Jeff Smith won, he was never the same.
    Karriem sliced him up did very well considering his lack of actual fight experience.
    Anyway, I became skilled enough to have competed successfully in the Open Class Golden Gloves.
    Trained with Olympic level Judokas and wrestlers to hone my arsenal for self-defense as I started to freelance security.
    While bulk and a heavy bench is not a prerequisite for success in the street, some form of strength work is absolutely necessary be it weights, resistance cables, or high volume body weight exercises.
    My personal arsenal has been tapered to boxing, elbows/knees, basic kicks, and varied sparring.
    By varied, one week I may pop in to an unfamiliar boxing gym and spar professional fighters that don’t know me from atom.
    3-5 good hard rounds, 3 times per week and I “open up” on them so that they do not hold back on me.
    These are young fighters and by “holding my own” for those 3-5 rounds at my age keeps me prime and my “stand up” sharp.
    On occasion, if there is a kickboxer present I get in some kickboxing rounds as well.
    Other weeks, I will head over to a college that has a wrestling and/or Judo program and “roll” with, you guessed it, their young competitive athletes.
    I want to be pushed, and play sparring or semi contact tag won’t cut it.
    I state this not to impress you, just to impress upon you that pretty much my regiment is as solid as some of the elite MMA athletes.
    Been to top South Florida MMA training facilities so I saw and experienced up close and personal what they do in training and when they are in “camp” mode.
    Stuff I advocated decades ago.
    Not to “flush” tradition down the toilet, I still work forms/kata once a week normally on my off/rest day using that practice as an “active rest” day.
    Onto conditioning, can still bench 300lbs and work pushups 3 times a week 10 sets of 50 reps.
    MY key to longevity and avoiding over training or muscle over use is to keep ALL training sessions 30-40 minutes tops.
    But, intense, non stop, no resting.
    Once per month I devote to what I call “spontaneous mass attack” training.
    I get 3-5 guys(boxers, MA, street fighters)who are friends and as I take an evening jog in the park they attack me randomly all at once or in separate scenarios AS THEY DEEM NECESSARY.
    The idea is for me to react to the attack while I am winded from jogging, AT NIGHT and see effective my response is without any pre arranged moves.
    By the way, they are wearing some for of protection so that I can execute.
    It is a continued learning experience, sometimes I eliminate the attack, other times I get worked.
    But it helps to self-defense skill while tired and there is some adrenal response involved.
    Sometimes they are unarmed, others they use padded bats, or plastic knives with markers.
    With all due respect to Mr. Payne, while he may entertain accepting my offer to step in for Mr. Libby, I don’t see him gaining much benefit from what the end result will be.
    As his student, if you are that confident in his ability, and he wishes to engage.
    Have Mr.Payne post his interest on this forum so that I know this is not a joke.
    Hope some of what I have posted helped to answer your questions.
    Best of luck in your training journey.

  407. Hey Robert!
    More than happy to stand up for a real warrior.
    Hope you recoup from surgery, and my respect to both you and Mrs. Libby.
    We will share a beer and some “grub” at some point and time my friend.
    All my best always.

  408. I have heard of it but I know nothing about it. Most of the Muay Thai gyms are in the Issan province or in Bangkok. I live in Chiang Rai and I have seen one run down facility but I think they have closed. There is an organization called the WMTA or World Muay Thai Association. You can get their link through the USMTA site, or at least you used tp be able to.
    I hope that helps.

  409. monfongo… the bullying on here is simply unbeleiveable,,”””be careful how you address me”” why?? where you and robert carefeul how you adressed others that stand up for mr,,Parker and kenpo?? you and libby both have repeatedly insulted and name-called others on this forum,, i have no wish to continue this pissing contest with either of you so i wont,,, i have bigger problems in my life,, but make no mistake ..im not afraid of either of you so your so-called scare tactics dont work on me,,, have a nice life,,,,,

  410. Mr. Harshman,
    My intention was not to “scare” or intimidate you.
    As you can see from earlier forum responses, Mr. Crenshaw started to “spew” his “jibberish” and then starts to “name drop” by stating in round about terms that Mr. Martinez took care of some young street punks, as if to use that example to set me straight.
    It all started when I brought up some factual information regarding La Bell vs. Milo Savage.
    As big as Mr. Parker was, and with his experience and what seemed to be pretty decent speed for his size, why didn’t he fight Savage?
    Why did Mr. Parker have someone else agree to the fight?
    I did not come on this forum to “bash” Mr. Parker, just to state information that I was told by Milo Savage himself.
    Mr. Crenshaw saw the need to defend Parker by bad mouthing me, and I was not going to let it go.
    And then, I found myself having quite a bit in common with Mr. Libby.
    When I saw that he was being attacked for his opinions, I decided to side with an individual whose expertise and credibility should not be in question.
    All this “snowballed” because a few “talkers” decided to post like “bad asses”.
    If they would have made their opinion know differently, quite possibly all this would not have happened.
    They should take lessons on how to articulate their feelings on the Ed Parker debate.
    I respect your response.
    And I do hope that whatever the bigger problems are in your life they all get resolved.
    Good Luck.

  411. Joshua Pestaner

    Monfongo,

    Very cool background. Some similarities to Sifu Payne’s. He too was in the PAL system and did Golden Gloves boxing and other arts. He talks about an officer named “Mack” (was a Peter Urban guy), do you by any chance know who this is? Always wanted to know more about him.

    Your training regimen is very impressive. Why do you still feel the need to engage so hard now? You say you don’t over work it, but still why? Not bad, just curious. At your age I’d think you’d be be cool and not feel the need to have to prove anything anymore and maybe be eager to teach more all the great things you have learned and endured over the years.

    Even with your impressive background and work ethic I don’t think a result of engaging with each other produces much of anything for either of you. You guys are grown ass men and even grandfathers. I shouldn’t be that mother fucker picking fights for others, hahaha. If you want to engage talks with him, go right ahead. He loves meeting new people, talking martial arts, philosophy of the world, food, etc. You want to say I talked up great things about him and told you to hit him up? Go right ahead. It’s all on you from there. I think you overestimate him quite a bit.

    I think you really have this image of a guy flailing weak kicks and punches, deep stances and no fight experience. That’s not this guy.

    If you feel a need to do so much at this age that you are, I’m even more curious to see what you can do. Not saying this is you: but often when someone feels that need so much at a late age: they haven’t amounted a ton of skill and did enough testing at a younger age. It’s all good and again doesn’t mean that’s you. I’m just sooooo curious now to see what you look like and how you move. Please post or email me a lil fight teaser. Like 30 seconds you hitting a bag, doing your mulitple attacker drills, sparring or form, or pad work, footwork, something. It’s just a lil lack luster and lame with all this talk from you and Mr. Libby, but I still haven’t seen either one of you guys do anything. You want to naysay Sifu Payne and others from what you perceive in available youtube clips, no prob. You have that ability and freedom to do so. But let me see something. And no, not benching, push-ups and squats. You wanna look pretty for the ladies; that’s great. That doesn’t win you fights. It doesn’t increase your fight IQ and fight motion. Monfongo, gimme something that makes me think ooooooo, this guy is really tight like he says. He really does have some vicious skill sets and I would love to see more! Oh, he has some similarities like Sifu Payne or not at all. I can’t say much at all right now. Please entertain the idea. I know any recording you do will not serve justice to what you can do or what holes you have, but it’ll be fair to see something and just cool for you to represent.

    All this stuff is EXTREMELY childish. I can hear my wife calling me a dumb kid already,LOL. Martial artists can be huge kids. We’re seeing it in every post here. My wife would give 2 shits to see any of this. Sifu Payne would probably laugh with all this.

    You’re right on some things about Sifu Payne, he isn’t living at the gym or dojo(even as much as he would love to go more.) He doesn’t have clips that show his fight speed and method(He’s always teaching in them). He’s done tons of fighting and loves giving back and enriching other lives now with what he has loved doing for 47 years. He loves equipping people with little to no fight skill or coordination and making them confident as well as real threats in real confrontation. That means your not afraid to get hit and blast. You can also control your emotions, be precise and be very spontaneous.

    Sifu Payne works hard. He loves taking his spontaneous personality and martial arts mindset to the kitchen where he is an AMAZING executive chef. He can work insane superhuman hours and always going way above and beyond to show greatness and put perfection in everything he does. All to put his 2 kids and his wife through college at the same time and pay bills with 1 salary. After insane hours he can walk 12 miles home at 2am in 30 degree weather just to test himself(when he could have easily gotten a taxi or called me) and go back to work after 5 hours. He lifts huge pasta pots full of boiling water across wet floors by himself to just build up real functional strength and again for fun(it is almost always a 2 man exercise in the kitchen.) He uses steel freezer doors as a maki wara. He closes them each time with his punch. After tons of use you have an engraved steel door with his fist imprint. He uses poles and trees as bags for conditioning his bones even more. He’s constantly in battle mode visualizing in his mind and greets everyone with a giant Grinch kinda grin.

    You don’t get more martial artist bad ass than that as a civilian. Even with all the tough stuff you do, I personally don’t think it matters with Payne or another guy like him. I’ve never met another like him. I’ve met some bad dudes, but very different in comparison. I don’t think you have enough skill sets or mastery. I don’t think you are prepared mentally. You seem to be the only one with something to prove.

    How did Libby help you in your martial arts journey? What makes him unique in his approach to training?

    To contact Payne just look up Greg Payne on Facebook.

    No more typing now, my daughter is destroying my house,LOL.

    • Joshua,
      I’m pretty sure that no instructor wants a student of his to be posting random Challenges for him over the internet. its quite inappropriate and you should really stop doing so.

      I am a IKCA Black belt and have heard of how tuff Mr. Payne and im sure if you bring the content to this thread to his attention he would tell you that he can pick his own fights. im not sure why my Kenpo brothers are all issuing challenges to people and then saying “my instructor will clean up the mess” if your instructor feels the need to respond im sure they would.

      If any of you as Kenpo practitioners feels the need to defend Kenpo don’t pawn it off on your instructor. take the fight yourself.

      As for Mr. Libby and Monfongo, much respect to both of you. i have seen how many of these guys have went after you. while i do teach the art of IKCA Kenpo, American Kenpo and Tracys Kenpo i have also grappled and Kickboxed and even competed in 10 MMA events. While i agree that the techniques as a whole do not work as prescribed in the set techniques, what needs to be realized is that its the principles and the concepts within those techniques that are the important factor (disrupting and destroying the attackers base, rotational force, merge of gravity, point of origin, ect).

      When i teach kenpo i teach it as a tool to react with for when someone is sucker punching at me, grabbing, bear hugs or pushing me. On the other hand, if it is already established that i am in a fight i will revert to my kickboxing moment and striking. and everyone better know enough grappling to defend ones self and get back to their feet.

      i appreciate everyone time. look forward to any responses that may be sent.

      Andy

  412. Monfongo,

    Please post something or email me something. I really would like to see what you guys do.

  413. Monfongo,

    This will be my last post. Honestly wasting a bunch of time writing when I should be studying. I’m taking classes now.

    Anyhow, I haven’t liked putting Sifu Payne in the middle of all this talk. If it was the other way around, he wouldn’t put me in the middle. He’d say you have to go through me first (the henchman.) So I will reciprocate that. If you do want to test Sifu Payne, come through me first. I’m just a henchman.

    I don’t challenge you because I don’t care about this really. I got tons of stuff to take care and responsibilities. I’m not single and no kids. I don’t want to fight unless threatened or in danger.

    But if you want to come through and do this fight with me, I’ll honor it. Just email me and we can discuss a date and place.

    PUMA.Kenpo@gmail.com

    This has lost sight of what this thread originally intended, but that’s cool. There is nothing bad being said of you or Mr.Libby. Just wanna see some clips of what you guys say is the way to do things. And then of course the challenges from you and protecting Mr.Libby’s honor, haha.

    Post some clips. Just email me from here on.

    Osu.

  414. Joshua,
    I was liking the post and then toward the end you challenged me.
    Your Mr. Payne’s “henchman” and I have to go through U?
    🙂
    I’m going to call Payne at his Puma Academy sometime next week.
    Will see if it’s ok to do this at his dojo.
    Get in touch with him between 11/7 and 11/10 as my call will be coming 11/12-11/13.
    Make sure he’s available to speak with me.
    The reason I train like I do is for situations just like this.
    Are u in the Baltimore area?
    If so, I’ll reach out to Leroy Taylor, Sylvester Cash, or Ed Butcher to see if one of them is interested in being a ref.
    I’m assuming we would box or kickbox, right?
    Or, this this going to bare knuckle?
    BTW, I freelance security.
    If I were to lose, it would be detrimental to my finances as some clients would probably not retain my services in the future.
    Lot on the line for me.
    Should be fun.
    Thanks for the challenge.
    We can work out all the specifics after my call to Puma next week.

  415. Monfongo, I’ve followed this thread for a while now. I’ve had a good a conversation with Robert libby & developed respect for the man. In my opinion he’s a seasoned veteran with nothing to prove. I would humbly advise you not to engage in the afore mentioned challenge. You sound like a serious practitioner of ma. I would say you have nothing to prove but everything to lose. You say you train for real street applications but I would say an organized challenge may not be the best platform for displaying your skills. My Sifu used to say that competition fighting only proves which fighter is best at manipulating the rules they are fighting under & not who the actual best fighter is. All It would take is one mistimed punch or block & everything you worked so hard for is over. These challenges don’t prove anything & i dont even know you but if this could affect your ability to earn a living, I implore you to reconsider. There’s no need for this to happen. My ex’s junkie jailbird boyfriend recently got upset about some concerns I have about him being around my kids & he threatened me & called me a pedophile & wanted to fight me but a friend with a cooler head advised me not dirty my hands on such trash as it would probably be me that got in trouble if I beat his punk ass & if I lost I risk injury & loss of income if it affected work. Since then he’s back on cops radar without my intervention &,he’s not allowed near my kids as a result. I know this a different but I just dont want to see anything negative happen to a fellow martial artist. All the best to a friend of roberts.

    • Dear Chen, thanks for the respect, support and concern. You do bring up good points. But we get like old fighting dogs. And as we get older we learn what the Japanese call “waza” or tricks. I have had to adapt what I do several times due to injuries. I have had 13 or 14 orthopaedic surgeries, died on the operating table, and broken my nose like 14 times- I should learn how to duck better!
      So where this is going is I am thinking about writing an instructional book on martial arts for disabled people. I have been asjed to do this before and I just might.
      Thanks for the respect,
      Robert Libby

  416. As big as Mr. Parker was, and with his experience and what seemed to be pretty decent speed for his size, why didn’t he fight Savage? — Monfongo

    He didn’t pass it off to LeBell in spite of his experience, but because of it. Parker knew from personal experience that boxing is not a good stylistic match against grappling. Parker himself did some boxing in Hawaii and when one of the older boxers got too rough, Parker used Judo to put him on the ground and choke him out.
    http://www.tracyskarate.com/FAQ'S/EDtrain.htm

    Per Mills Crenshaw Parker passed for the protection of the boxer who’d be in mortal danger from a Kenpoist. However, in light of Parker’s experience with Judo v Boxing, his need to protect the KK brand, and general martial arts history, we can surmise very different reasons.

    Parker’s experience of grappling a boxer was not a singular event: Back to the old catch-as-catch-can traveling show days it was widely held that grapplers could take a boxer out of his element and finish him off.

    Moreover, Parker was not in fighting shape and he probably knew that he’d get gassed.

    Those reasons alone would likely make Parker pass the fight to Judo Gene, but the financial incentives he faced made it certain. If KK lost, Parker’s brand would be forever hurt along with his ability to feed his family and make a living in the martial arts. If Judo lost the contest why would Parker care?

    Knowledge (stylistic match-up & importance of conditioning) + need to protect his brand = call Gene LeBell.

    It would’ve been beyond stupid for Parker to take the fight.

  417. Chen Style,
    Thank you for your advice, input, and concern.
    I deeply appreciate it, and understand and agree with your opinion.
    Although, my training now is catered more toward realism applications, I had pretty solid experience in contact/combat sports.
    So, this is not totally out of my element.
    I agree, that anything can happen, in fact I have seen it.
    An undefeated professional boxer with an excellent record was knocked out in a gym challenge by some guy off the street who got in a lucky punch.
    Not only did it tarnish the pro’s reputation, his confidence was shot.
    He never performed up to par, and started losing fights to the point where he was released by his managers and promoters.
    I will be following through with my post to Joshua.
    The final decision is up to Joshua and/or Mr. Payne.
    Again, thank you for the time you took to advise me and for your concerns.

  418. Joshua, I have not responded because they just increased my therapy regimen and my right shoulder was killing me, but I have full range of motion which is great.
    Okay, how I train is I ride a mountain bike for cardiovascular. We have a great section near my house that has a ride to a waterfall. And the downhill is insanely fun- lots of whoops and speed with gravel and dirt for sliding. I also have a weight set at the house. You can get a lot done with just a simple bench that is adjustable for angles. So I have 1 large bar and several hand held little bars that I can adjust the weights on. When I do martail arts everything is give and take- the whole idea of point sparring and “techniques” is just a plain waste of time for me. Kata is good for building a sweat and flexibility but I do not do any. I also use a heavy bag for power. I rarely kick except for the classic roundhouse to the legs, a front kick, and a push kick. I use elbows and knees a lot. In the street I never kick above my opponent’s hip level. I do a lot of sweeps and take downs. I also fight in a very dirty fashion. I bite, eye gouge, eap slap, and when grappling use a lot of skin tearing to flesh (the skin does not actually tear but it is very painful). I also use certain pressure points to sensitive areas like the nerve on the underside of the jaw to get people moving. I also break fingers a lot. Many people do not realize how devastating it is to have a person’s finger, fingers, or thumb. If you wreck that hand the fight is pretty much over, I also eye slap a lot. For blocking I use a mix of boxing, Kali, and JKD. I do a lot of destructions to the fingers, hands, and arms. I want the fight over in under 30 seconds.
    Maybe I can answer a question you had for Monfongo. Yes, we are getting older. but it is like a disease with us. We have done it so long that it is like breathing. My wife will say to me “why do you still do this? You need to slow down.” But you cannot. Some may scoff at this but it’s like being a gunfighter. You do not back down from challenges. In the 60’s and 70’s if somebody talked shit about you or insulted you you settled it personally.
    I will give you an example that has anout 10 witnesses: I was in the back of a friend’s burger stand one night. There was another guy these that didn’t like me and I loathed him. He said “I see your girlfriend just left (the burger stand was right in front of the Kenpo school).” I ignored him. So then he says to me “why don’t you have her come back and we can all fuck her.” That was all I needed. Now he was a judo champion and damn good, but as I approached he picked up a kitchen knife. So I picked up a massive ice pick. I told him “So you want to play weapons? Judo has no weapons and I do htem all the time.” Then several people got in the middle. Would I have killed him? If he came at me with a knife I would have, and he started it. That’s how it was. A Kenpo black belt named Ron Wilstein humiliated my students- I protect my students and they were about 14 years old. He never showed for the fight, but I went to his school alone for the challenge.
    This is what dummies like Steve Shaffer, Mike Bennett, Kevin Harshman, and Mills Crenshaw do not understand. They have never had real fights. They are what I call “mat warriors” or “mat posers.” They are really slick at their techniques and forms. They know lots of terms, but have never taken a real shot to the face, head, or body. If I ever hit say Kevin Harshman he would fold like a graham cracker. He doesn’t kow what a real fight is. And I know from reading a piece by one of the Tracy brothers that they say Mills probably never had a black belt when he says he did- posers.
    Now if you did settle something there were no lawsuits or lawyers. And unlike Steve Shaffer there were no cops. And sometimes after a confrontation you respected each other and it changed. I got into it with a Lima Lama guy at a tournament and we both got kicked out for unnecessary roughness and illegal shots, but he did start it. So afterwards I was outside. He approached with several friends. I was thinking that he has that big grin for a reason. He just said “you hit pretty good- let’s go get a beer and talk.” So I went with his pals and even took him in my car. We had a few beers at a park and became friends. Today there would be a Twitter fight and a bunch of crap. It was better then.
    Robert Libby

  419. That was a good analysis. But the part I must call into question is the validity of anything Mills Crenshaw says- I’ll leave it at that.
    I also want to say that some people think that knowing a lot of martial arts history makes them a martial artist. Well it does not, and no more than being a war historian makes you a warrior or soldier. I bring this up because some seem to think because I do not know somebody or a historical event I am not skilled. I know the history of the Ed Parker Kenpo Karate school known as the Santa Monica school post 1966 and some of the history of the Crenshaw school. But I do personally know most of the players.
    A lot of stuff has been dumped on Ed Parker and I feel deservedly so. But I have been asked by people about things like “Was Ed a racist as he came from the Mormon religion?’ I never jeard a racist word come out of Ed’s maouth and he was always very respectful to Steve Sanders and the BKF people. For some reason I flet it was necessary to clear the air on that. Ed did have his good points, and apparently salesmanship was one of them

    • A lot of stuff has been dumped on Ed Parker . . . I never heard a racist word come out of Ed’s maouth . . . I flet it was necessary to clear the air on that. Ed did have his good points — Robert Libby

      I agree that some of the allegations in the Tracy articles are nonsense. Particularly the stuff about him working Mormon symbols into KK.
      * The belt on the side tradition comes from Kung Fu, not Mormon temple nonsense.
      http://www.goo.gl/drcswV
      * The Mormon temple clothes do NOT resemble the KK gi.
      http://goo.gl/Hc65E1

  420. Dear Monfongo, sorry I cannot be there to have your back. My pgysical therapy is just too important right now and far too expensive in the states. Here my wife does it as the hospital let her make a video of what to do.
    I hope you will make a video. If I come out next year we will hook up. I will start in Dallas as my grand kids are there. Then I will have some free time.
    Robert Libby

  421. robert… ive tried to leave this forum… ive apologised ,,,said have a nice life,,the whole bit figured it was over,, then ,, i read your last post and there you are again,,, bringing my name up and spreadin lies about me again… whats your deal?? is it that you need to compensate by tearing others down,, first of al.. you know nothing of me so how do you know my fight history??? truth is,, you dont,,, you claims you have no knowlegde about,, im not going to go into my history as for one,, its none of your business, and two it wouldnt prove anything,,, suffice to say ive had my fair share of fights, some i won some i lost. i have nothinng to prove to you or anyone,, two,, have you ever met mr mills in person?? ever fought with him??[that id love to see] until you do,,,dont make claims you cant back up,,,,the tracys left mr parker years before mr mills trained with mr parker,,, ask frank trejo,, thats who mr mills got his 1st degree black from,, all others after came from mr parker himself… you need to stop bringiing me or my name up and let this end,.,, please

    • the tracys left mr parker years before mr mills trained with mr parker — Kevin Harshman
      Actually, Mills Crenshaw started KK back in the 50s before the Tracy brothers had met Parker.

      ask frank trejo — Kevin Harshman

      Trejo started about 15 years after Mills Crenshaw.

      have you ever met mr mills in person?? ever fought with him??[that id love to see]

      Are you referring to Mills Crenshaw or another person? Mills Crenshaw – the 80 yr old talk show host and presenter in this thread — is the one Robert Libby was speaking about. Anyone who fights an 80 yr old will likely be facing a manslaughter charge.

      Anyhow, you’ve just replaced Mike Pick with someone else in your “you can’t judge KK until you’ve met So & So, even if it has failed in combat for 20 years” balderdash.

      So Kevin, who is the great KK deity with whom we must consult before making a judgment about it? Pick or someone else? Please post a video of the aforementioned deity so that we can make an informed judgement.

  422. Robert,
    No worries, I know you’ll be there in spirit.
    Take care of your surgeries and stay healthy.
    When you get to the states
    I look forward to shaking your hand.
    So far, no response from Joshua.
    I’m not here to make him or Payne look bad.
    But, I’m making my call to see where this stands.
    Take care and keep me posted on your rehab via the forum.

  423. my mistake i didnt realise it was mills crenshaw.. i know nothing of him… i do object to the claims libby makes about me never haven met me… saying i would fold like a graham cracker or the claim ive never fought in real life,,, he likes to rant about people hes never met… but i suppose he likes to do so to make himself the superior,,, what ever….it might do him well to meet someone in person before he makes such claims but seeing how thats never going to happen ill shine it on and deal with my own problems///later

  424. I publicly annpunced when I was coming to America. Not a peep from anybody in Kenpo. You told me to go look up Mike Pick- I have no beef with Mike Pick. Just like Steve Shaffer told me to go to a guy in Texas- I have no beef with him.
    Now I have publicly announced that I had a near fatal motorcycle accident and underwent a total shoulder reconstruction- then from you it’s “here’s my address” and this “anytime” bullshit!!!! Where was your bravado when I was coming to America?
    You are a disgrace to martial arts and a craven coward. Was that blunt enough?

  425. Good Morning Joshua,
    It’s 6:55 AM and chill.
    It’s also 11/9.
    Were you able to chat with Payne about your aforementioned challenge and “step in” for him?
    Let me know the status of things so that I may address this matter correctly when I contact him in a few days.
    Thanks.

  426. okay libby thats it,,, ive had enough of your insults… your one who keeps eggin this on..your the one who keeps insulting people when they apologised and tried to walk away .. your the one who says people would fold like a graham cracker if you hit them,,then turn around and cry bad shoulder after you do…i guess i could challenge your or your partner in crime,., what would it prove?? my attorney says i have enough to sue you for libel but again what would it prove… you done nothing in this whole thread put down people who disagaree and defend parker while promoting your videos.. as if i dont have enough going on in my life right ,, but you know what,, im not going to do a thing,, you want to call me a coward[although you didnt do it to my face] fine,,, a disagrace? well thats a matter of opinon,, and letting you and your co -hort get under my skin in the first place was my mistake,, better to laugh the both of you off and conentrate on my sick wife/. so insult on ..Mr libby,,,you only show your true colors..god bless

    • I highly doubt you talked to an attorney. In order to win in a libel suit you have to prove you were damaged and lost money as a result of the libelous action. And there is another thing that wipes out your claim- the truth. No lawyer would ever take this case.
      Now as to whining as you put it- blow me. I was operated on October 6th. of this year in Chiang Mai, Thailand. I informed people on YouTube so they would know that I cannot do videos for awhile. I also told them in advance of the surgery as they tried immobilization for 3 weeks but then they did an MRI.
      Everything I said was the truth. You did try to pass me off to Mike Pick. You did know I was coming to America as I announced it publicly on this site; yet you never responded. The only time you accepted was after I announced the seriousness of the injury. So who do you think comes off looking like a fool?
      Also, I live in Thailand- I am impossible to serve, So you never talked to an attorney,
      If you’d like I can post my surgery. I have an actual DVD of it with the surgical report. It is not gory as it only shows the work inside. But you can see the screw heads in the bone with some blue sort of wires (I am not a doctor). You can also see where the tendons are ripped off of the bone.
      Also, youi might want to recheck some of your first comments as to insulting people. At least I fight my own battles. And when Steve Shaffer chickened out you could have taked the spot!

  427. Joshua,
    Can u post the telephone to PUMA?
    All I see are some YouTube videos of Mr. Payne and Facebook.
    Need a number so that I can call Sifu about your challenge.
    IF ur still interested in stepping in for your master.

  428. Robert,
    Saw your YouTube clips.
    Outstanding demonstration and in depth explanation.
    Some of the “posers” that have bad mouthed you would probably need “pampers” if they saw you walking through the door to settle things.
    Do you get out to see the Muay Thai fights?
    In your opinion, in their primes, who would have won a kickboxing match between Joe Lewis and Dennis Alexio?

  429. I watch them on TV with my wife. We live in Chiang Rai and the two big stadiums are Lumphini in Bangkok and Gawilan in Chiang Mai. Chiang Mai is 2 1/2 hours away.
    WOW!!! I would go with Dennis Alexio. I feel he had more tools and was a better boxer. He also had a much better round kick. Joe could never quite shake the Karate influence where Alexio was more Muay Thai looking. But I feel Lewis punched harder. I also saw a match where Benny Urquidez floored Lewis with a back hand. To me Benny was the best of all time- 100-0 with 67 sanctioned. Benny’s knockouts were almost 3 times Lewis’ total fights.
    I also feel that in the ring Benny would have beaten Bruce. There’s just no substitute for that ring time. But in the street it would be Bruce as he would go straight to filthy fighting. I also feel Larry Hartsell would have cleaned Lewis’ clock in the street for the same reason. But I do respect Lewis on a lot of levels. He served honorably in the USMC and was a radioman- DANGEROUS job. And he was tough. I think he and Hartsell were pals as they were both from North Carolina.
    I do miss the 60’s. Those on this thread may not realize this but Benny was teaching at the school I ran on Friday nights. I look at who came into our school- Bruce Lee, Danny Inosanto, Larry Hartsell, and Benny “the Jet” Urquidez. There was no way that could have lasted, but with a few right moves we could have maintained Benny, but on an exclusive basis. What a coup that would have been! That was what set Santa Monica apart from Crenshaw and Pasadena. We had the location. We were near Santa Monica, Westwood, Malibu, and Bevery Hills. UCLA was minutes away. We were also right off the 405 freeway and near the Santa Monica freeway- it doesn’t get any better. And it was on the corner of Sepulveda and Santa Monica. It was one of the busiest intersections in Los Angeles, and it had great parking and easy access from all directions.

  430. Mr. Libby, what do think of Muay Thai or Muay Boran as the majority of somebody’s training for self defense? I realize there’d be some gaps and weaknesses, but your overall thoughts please. Also do you have any opinion on the Ted Wong lineage of JKD, and tournament exposure aside, did you see enough Lima Lama to form any opinions on it? Thanks.

  431. Much respect to everyone who watches this. It is not to bash anyone. Please comments and questions are appreciated.

    Osu

    https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B_PpMXJw5InOVi1Qbl9hTDFiZWc/view?usp=docslist_api

  432. https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B_PpMXJw5InOU0VhMVVleElNdlE/view?usp=docslist_api

    By the way, I’m going to delete the replies probably in 3 days. To clear space on my online storage.

    I think this is a great way of communicating and sharing ideas. Thanks to everyone that has participated and still would like to share. If anyone is interested in learning how to post videos and such pretty quickly(because you don’t know how) just ask and I’ll give some ideas.

    Osu

  433. I think that Muay Thai is great, and on many levels. It is first of all very efficient and a no nonsense approach. It puts you in great shape. You really kick elbow, and punch things as opposed to air. There are also no forms. The dance you see them do at the beginning of a fight is called the “wai kroo.” It means “respect for the teacher.” And the use of knees and elbows is stressed whereas in some systems they are a minor part of the systm.
    The bad parts to me are that they do not use head movement or feint much. It is very much a “I’ll hit you and you’ll hit me” kind of art. They also rarely hook or uppercut.
    I do not know a thing about Ted Wong so I cannot comment. I have heard of him but that is all. Perhaps you should get in touch with somebody like Ron Balicki. I know there are a lot of JKD frauds out there so being careful is smart, and I am not in any way implying Ted Wong is a fraud.
    On Lima Lama my experience has been fighting them and not studying their art. I do know that if you get the real lima lama guys they are rough fighters. But I feel that is more of an ethnic Samoan thing in my case. I have hit them before and they grin- it’s kind of disconcerting. They can be very tough guys. And from what I know if they are your friend you can count on them,
    I hope that helps.
    I feel that as this thread is getting outrageously long that for further questions go through one of my videos. But I will always answer in 1 day. Also remember I am 14 hours ahead of West coast time.

  434. WOW!!! That was a massive brain fade. Please forgive a mistake as it is almost 3:00am here. I am proofing some work for a university and a masters thesis for somebody. For some reason I totally spaced on Ted Wong.
    Ted Wong is one of Bruce’s first students. If alive he’s gotta be in his 70’s. I have always heard good things about him. I believe he would be in the San Francisco area. I personally think of him as more of a technician as opposed to a brawler. And that is not in any way an insult. He will beat you with technique and not muscle you like say Larry Hartsell. He is in boxing terms more of a Hector Camacho as opposed to a Marvin Hagler. He has great moves but not that heavy knock out hit

  435. Thanks Mr. Libby!

  436. Joshua,
    Just saw your video.
    Thought it was done with class and respect.
    All previous is “water under the bridge”.
    I will email and maybe even call you when I get back from my trip.
    My security “gigs” have been in both the club and private client sector.
    Suffice it to say that most were high profile in nature.
    I assume you were trying to do the honorable thing by defending your Sifu.
    At some point and time I may even start posting “training” videos of me doing the things I mentioned just to validate.
    Not to boost, but I have yet to come across anyone my age training at the level I do alongside top notch combat athletes, and handling the rigors of contact sparring/grappling.
    This makes self defense just a little easier IF the need ever arose.
    As I got older, my goals were to replicate or maintain the same training regiment and intensity I followed when I was younger.
    Having done that has enabled me to coach and supervise the workouts of several recognized athletes.
    I gained their respect because I do what they do, rather than follow a “show and command” training/teaching philosophy.
    Much success with your Martial Arts journey and academic studies.
    BTW I’m Marco Martucci aka “Monfongo”.

  437. Robert,
    I hung out with Benny at a Martial Arts event in Atlantic City last year.
    Dynamite guy.
    What was kind of sad was that the new breed of MMA fighters, several with big names knew so little about Benny.
    I actually had to tell one former MMA champ that Benny had beaten a heavyweight in a no rules fight with a throwing/grappling technique.
    Benny would have definitely been a UFC champ.
    What a fight Benny in his prime vs. Dillishaw would have been.
    Agree, he was the best kickboxer of all time.
    I also believe that he could have gone 10 rounds with Duran in a straight up boxing match.
    Wouldn’t have won, but would have “hung tough”.
    Remember Joe losing to journeyman boxer Teddy Limoz?
    Just another trip down memory lane.

  438. I agree. Yes, I remember the Limoz fight. I think he fought him in Hawaii. And all the Urquidez brothers are really nice people. The one who was a sleeper was Joe, or “Smiley” as most called him. He was as good as Benny but didn’t have the desire to go pro. I remember one day I was “sharpshooting” with Blinky Rodriguez, their brother in-law, and it was a light contact drill. So all of a sudden Blinky fired a full power overhand right- man he rocked me. But it was instantly “Oh man, oh man, I am so sorry.” All was forgiven but it had the birds out around my head for a while.
    I feel that Benny is less known because the PKA fights never got the big coverage. At the first big one in Los Angeles the press almost blew it off. I remember Lewis fought some guy from Bulgaria and mopped the floor with him. But the LA Times really bad mouthed the fight, and they were right. A lot of the early talent was not that good. And there were really bad calls and referees that did not understand fighting. And some of the ring doctors did not know fighting. I took a few friends to a fight and Benny lost on a TKO due to a tiny cut above the eye. The decision was later thrown out as it was so absurd.. And I saw a few fights where the decisions were ridiculous. Blinky had a few decisions called against him that were BS.
    You are making me really miss the old days.

  439. Good comments. But I hope you see that the way you see it, and as I see it also, are not being taught. And that applies to Kenpo and all other arts. There is way too much of an assembly line idea to maximize profits. As I had only done 3 technique videos before getting injured I was going to go into the idea of size. I always taught my students to fight like them, not like me. To find what works for them. The idea of setting up the technique is what Larry HArtsell calls “entering”, but I do disagree a little bit on the “using the technique to determine his motion” that you mentioned. I partially agree. The set up for the ring is more valid. In the street there are far more more variables.
    A daughter? I have a son and two stepdaughters. You are so much more protective of a daughter!!! Good luck with her!

  440. Your daughters a cute kid! So once again we agree. But let me ask yiu this. You stated “nobody thinks a middle knuckle strike to the ribs is going to work- that’s opd news.” Really? That is where I totally disagree. The vast majority of Kenpo people take the techniques as gospel. They believe that they do work as taught. Look at the response Steve Shaffer made on Clutching Feathers. And if you say things like a middle knuckle strike do not work why teach them? Why keep them in the system. Bruce Lee had talked a lot about keeping waht was useful and getting rid of the rest. Why not get rid of the superfluous?
    The other thing that surprises me is how few Kenpoists realize that Kenpo is a great knife system. The defenses against a knife are somewhat weak, but as an attack art it is quite good. I am sure you know that in the real world a knife or stick fight is very short-lived.

  441. Robert,
    Benny beat the late Dana Goodson and I believe the event was Tommy Lee’s World Series of Martial Arts.
    Goodson went on to be a sought after boxing trainer in his retirement from fighting and was a firefighter in Hawaii.
    I remember the first PKA championships.
    Telly Savalas was commentating or was interviewed.
    Savalas, a big fan of boxing seemed impressed with Joe.
    “Hey, this guy looks pretty good” were his exact words.
    I know of Blinky.
    He never got a rematch with the Iceman Theriault, who went on to be a huge full contact star, after Blinky had knocked him out in their fight.
    Boxing trainers on the East Coast who had been to LA and went to Jimmy Montoyas gym all said that Blinky could punch.
    Heard several stories about the Urquidez family.
    Correct me if I’m wrong, but didn’t Bennys nephew lose his life in a drive by?
    I also heard that Chuck Norris picked up the tab for funeral expenses for the family.
    Back to the PKA, whatever happened to Don and Judy Quine?
    As for Joe Lewis, I believe that if he took boxing seriously he would have been a very competent “fringe” contender.
    But, maybe much more competitive at light heavyweight.
    There was no cruiserweight division back then which is where Joe might have belonged.
    At a “meet and greet” many years ago I crossed paths with Duane Bobbick, remember him?
    When the conversation gravitated toward the Martial Arts and fighting. Bobbick said that Joe Lewis would have made a pretty good professional boxer.
    I was surprised with Duane Bobbick’ s knowledge of full contact karate.
    Listen, you and I could probably sit and talk about the “old days” for months.
    Like you, I miss them too.

  442. I believe it was Dana Goodson. Telly was there as sort of a guest of honor. He dismantled Theriault. He hit him so hard that I doubt that to this day he knows where he is. When Blinky hit me I was 185 lbs. Blinky’s son did get killed in a car wreck. He had like 4 or 5 children with Lily. I believe Benny and Chuck were pretty tight.
    I was in a prelim for some PKA matches, and we had it at Chuck Norris’ school on Santa Monica Blvd. A TKD guy named Cho took it over later. I brought my girlfriend and her older daughter- big mistake. I did a three rounder. I did okay but I got beat in the third round. Arnold Urquidez apparenly said “Bob, where are you?” And my response was like “I’ll have a coke.” So Arnold said I was done. My girlfriend fell apart. She was in the “this is what you want to do for a living?” She was in tears and so was the kid.
    Yeah. Lewis was in sort of a lose weight and go light heavy or go up to heavy. He was a tough guy. For awhile nobody wanted to fight him.
    Wasn’t it Duane Bobbick that Ken Norton knocked out in like 20 seconds? The guy that would have been scary to fight would have been Randall “Tex” Cobb. You’d have to hit him with a pipe to put him down.
    Good stuff!!!

  443. Yeah.
    Bobbick was the, you know…white hope and was undefeated.
    Norton was getting a rep for taking on Caucasian fighters that were promoted as the next big thing.
    Norton tore him up.
    Kenny thought he was going to do his thing on Irish Gerry Cooney.
    Cooney destroyed Ken.
    In fact, Kenny took way too many shots as he “sat” on the ropes with his hands down.
    I think he was already in his late 30’s and this beat down pretty much “cooked his goose” for the rest of his career.
    “Tex” was an animal.
    Not too long after he went 15 rounds with Larry Holmes, where Larry’s arms almost fell off from hitting Cobb and Cobb smiling, Tex fought a kickboxing match against Big John Jackson a US Champ.
    Tex lost on points, and then Jackson calls out Holmes!
    During the interview Jackson is telling Larry to get his “safety kicks” and come on over.
    Cobb was so tough that back in the 90’s when he was training in Philadelphia, a reporter/friend from the Philly paper had a problem with a bunch of bikers who I believe were either the Pagans or Breed in some dive bar.
    Reporter calls Tex, who gets to the bar in 5 or 10 minutes and Cobb winds up fighting 3 or 4 bikers.
    As the story goes, Cobb was holding his own until one of the bikers tried to crack his skull with a pipe, he blocked it and had his arm broken.
    I think Cobb was a Black in Taekwon Do from his college days.
    He did a lot of training at Joe Frazier’s gym in North Philadelphia.
    He’s another one that would have done well in the cage.
    Robert,this just keeps getting better!!!
    Thanks for reading and responding brother!

  444. I remember Norton sitting their out cold and satying to myself “stop this fight.” Cooney had a great left hook. Howard Cosell quit doing fight commentaries over the Holmes-Cobb fight. He was so appalled at the misatch and disgusted, and he kept his word- he never announced again. Cobb fought the Pagans as I remember it. He also fought a kick boxer named Boza “oak Tree” Edwards. I could have the name a little off but I remember the “Oak Tree” nickname. And I saw Cobb on the Tonight Show with Johnny CArson- he was really very funny and had a great sense of humor.

  445. Libby,
    Hey, I just wanted to say I hope your recovery is going well. My wife had shoulder surgery which included a bicep tendon to be cut. So I know the pain and frustration in it. Luckily for my wife, she doesn’t have a hobby/activity she is involved with regularly. If she was, she’d probably be going insane! When injury/recovery gets in the way of you doing what you love to do: it really sucks.

    What do you think made Benny a great fighter(technically). I have known about Benny since I first started training, but I didn’t start watching him until a couple months ago! I love his stuff! What made him unique and a tough opponent technically in your opinion?

    Monfongo,

    I got your reply. Hit me up anytime. Last night after class we all went and hung out to celebrate Sifu Payne’s birthday. We asked questions and joked around about all types of things. I asked him about who he believed were his toughest fights were. He responded that Lil K.A. was one of them. I didn’t even know he was fighting with him then. I asked him what made him so difficult to go against. He said his lead hand and first step were so quick and powerful. You couldn’t ever sleep on him.

    What other technical aspects were great about Lil K.A. in your opinion?

    Osu!

  446. Joshua,
    Little KA(Kevin Thompson)was super fast, explosive, and had outstanding technique.
    All of the guys from the KA system were excellent fighters and also excelled in forms.
    Karriem Allah who created the KA system and was “self ranked” 10th Dan in his system was every bit as qualified as the traditional high ranked masters of his era.
    I’ll chime in with my opinion on “the jet”.
    He excelled in all areas of the Martial Arts.
    When he transitioned into full contact karate he was able to beat some of the best Thai/Japanese kickboxers.
    Look up his fight with Earnest Hart a real war.
    He was supposed to fight Roberto Duran, but it never worked out.
    His manager then tried to set up a boxing vs. kickboxing super fight against Sugar Ray Leonard.
    But, Leonard and his people didn’t take it seriously.
    And like Robert said, Benny and the entire family are dynamite,down to earth people.
    I think he still does seminars which I would recommend to anyone looking to add to their MA arsenal and train with a real legend.
    I researched the IKCA system and am very impressed with its practical self defense applications and the 55 technique max out.
    Perfecting and blending those 55 makes sense and helps to make that style of kenpo more spontaneous which is very important.
    I also like that the “master form” is made up of the actual self defense techniques.
    That enhances the development of one’s skill set.

    • Greetings Monfongo,

      thank you for the kind words about the IKCA. I have trained and taught the curriculum for the past 21 years and even tho i have branched off to round out my training in Kickboxing and Jiujitsu ( Competeing in MMA as well). i have alward come back to the material as a base to keep sharp and teach my students.

      I understand that it is not the end all be all but the 60 techniques are a fantastic starting point along with the emphasis on the blending and borrowing is a good mindset to keep the students sharp.

      Have a blessed day.

      Andy

  447. Benny was the total package. He was totally balanced as far as weapons usage. And he had great combinations mixed with deception, speed, and power. There were no holes in his fight game. And he was always in great shape. You never heard of him gassing out; it was the other guy who folded.
    The sad one was Arnold, the oldest. He was working a construction job and a load of some materilas got dropped on him and wrecked his back for life. I think Arnold is about 67 or 68. Arnold was a real banger. He started in boxing. A really nice guy and very good trainer. He seemed to really care about you as a person, and that went for the whole family.

  448. monfongo,,,, you gave your name as dan santini and marco martucci. What is it?? or is it robert

  449. Sorry to burst your conspiracy bubble but I am Robert B. Libby. We would have shown up in Florida together but Steve Shaffer refused the challenge. Your implication is ridiculous,
    Maybe you could later ask a real question.

  450. Response to Richard Head.
    Why ask, and who are you?
    The only person I responded to with my name as a courtesy was Joshua.
    But, if you really want to know my last name’s Gotti.
    Now…get lost!

  451. Hi Robert, hope all is well. As always I find your history lessons very informative & have quite enjoyed your previous posts. I have a question about Chuck Norris, you mentioned his school & contact with students, everyone knows he’s karate but I wonder do you know any anything about his specific style of Chun Kuk Do & it’s characteristics?

    • I am not an expert on Korean MA, but he called it Tang Soo Do. He was a balanced fighter in that he used about 60% feet and 40% hands- very different than today’s TKD. But he did have some good combinations. He trained hard and was always in shape. This is not an insult, but movie people seem to get taller, and he is like 5’7″. He weighs 155 or so.
      The problem I have is that he was a tournament fighter. He has never had a real ring fight that I am aware of. He does portray himself as a kick boxer in movies and has referred to himself as a “professional fighter” in interviews. You to have to remember that point tournameny money was a joke. Usually all you got was a trophy and maybe $1 to $500 (some HUGE events paid more but say a max of $5,000). The trophy brought students via recognition. Norris made most of his money from movies and TV. He also promoted a few products. But his chain of schools eventually collapsed. But he did not own them as I heard it. He was just the face behind it. I believe it was owned by Healthways International- they made pellet guns and gym equipment.
      As far as the overall system I do not care for it very much. It is too “clean” for me. I once showed a student of his how I did things and he huffed as he screeched “that’s dirty fighting.” Like many MA styles the vlocking is weak and rarely relies on sound body mechanics. It is a sport art only.
      I have only fought two or three Tang Soo Do fighters. And it was a Tang Soo Do fighter that caused me to never enter another tournament due to all the politics. Ask any older MA person and they will verify this. Joe Lewis and Benny Urquidez were fairly vocal about this fact, but Joe more so.
      I will end this by saying that if I had a child that wnated to learn MA and Tang Soo do was the only option I might consider tennis for the kid!

  452. Monfongo, I was pleased to see you & Joshua aren’t going through with the challenge. You guys appear to have developed a healthy respect for each other which I admire. To clarify I’m a nobody From Australia with a few years training under my belt & I’m in no way in the league that you guys are in but it seems you & Joshua have a lot to offer & as with Robert, you guys come across as the real deal as opposed to some of the frauds on this thread. Thank you for sharing you experiences & opinions, the Martial arts world needs more guys like you fellows to cut through the bullshit. Kudos gentlemen.

  453. Chen Style,
    Thank you for taking the time to post.
    Ideally, the “fairy tale” scenario would be for Robert, Joshua, and I to meet when Robert is in the US and talk “old school” Martial Arts history over dinner.
    Contrary to how you see yourself in a Martial Arts perspective, your a somebody from “down under”.
    You seem to have more on the ball then some of the high ranking “posters” who felt the need to make derogatory statements about Robert, and then when I decided to stand with brother Libby because we have quite a bit in common, say things about me.
    I thought Joshua used a lot of class in his video, and yes….he gained my respect and I’m sure Robert’s as well.
    While I respect tradition and the classical Martial Arts, as well as the pioneering legends that were given tons of press in the magazine’s, the cold hard facts are as follows.
    There are people like Robert Libby and to a degree myself whose combined experience, knowledge and skill may have equaled or surpassed those of many of the “names” in the arts.
    Curious, were you anywhere near Melbourne and if so, do you attend UFC 193?
    I predicted that Holly Holm was not only going to beat Ronda Rousey, but that she would stop her.
    With all respect to Ronda, she did not up the stand up skills to compete with Holm.
    The only possible way for Ronda to have polished her “striking” to a level where she could “hold her own” with Holly as she closed the gap to utilize he Judo/submission skills would have been by training at a boxing gym where she put in hundreds of sparring rounds during the course of camp against professional, elite level female and male boxers.
    And in essence gained some valuable experience off of them.
    Having her coach hold the focus pads and sparring in her gym with her friends and training partners was not going to cut it and it showed last night.
    Any of you guys reading are welcome to chime in on this topic.
    My prediction is that this is could be the beginning of the end for Ronda.
    She was destroyed and it’s very hard to come back from these type of beatings if not physically, then mentally.
    We saw it with Tyson vs. Douglas where Mike was never the same.
    Ronda has a lot of work ahead and with million dollar deals and movies she may come to realize that she doesn’t have the time to dedicate to combat sports.
    If and when she does rematch look for the same outcome.
    Sadly, any “tune up” fights will be dangerous as every opponent will look to test her ability to take punches and kicks and try to make Ronda relive her nightmare of UFC 193.

  454. Sorry, I haven’t been able to chime in for awhile with all the stuff I’ve had to do this week.

    Monfongo,

    Glad you got to check out the IKCA system. Yah, it is a very clean cut system of self defense. Chuck and Vic have some interesting things to combat the ground and weapons that are pretty unique as well. Not flashy, but realistic and efficient. It is a simpler version of Kenpo (lean) and not repeating a bunch of concepts over and over. They also add concepts from different arts they practiced or went up against. If you come from those other arts you have some to branh off with. The more experience you have: the better your Kenpo will be(theoretically). It is still work to blend. Some arts/mentality/basics do not blend well.

    I think it would be really cool if you and Robert recorded certain fight concepts you like to use or learned from some of the martial legends you trained with.

    I would have had Ronda’s side just because I hadn’t really seen Holm’s skill sets. I was so excited to see the results. I got lucky one my friend’s posted the entire fight on my Facebook page. Ronda did not fight a good fight at all. She played into Holm’s skill set immediately and never changed it. She was over aggressive and emotional. I think her corner did a terrible job. They should have made a plan for Ronda going into Rd 2. They did the same shit! Holm’s was excellent! She defended the grappling aspect beautifully and was obviously head and shoulders above Ronda in the striking game. Ronda chased and never brought the pace down to where she could recollect herself and fight her fight. When she was getting beat with the hands she should have used some kicks as well to keep some distance and just change things up. Again, her corner was terrible. I don’t know if sparring more peeps would have changed anything. Her entire approach needed to be different. She tried to punk Holm’s the day before. Holm’s never lost it mentally. She fought her fight and kicked Ronda’s butt.

    Chen Style,

    Appreciate the recognition. Hope to post some other cool stuff on here in the near future. I also like seeing other’s stuff. Always something to learn and to the craft.

    Osu!

    • Hey Joshua!!! I would have said more but they just upped me to “active physical therapy.” My shoulder is killing me but in a good way. I liked your videos and your kid!!!
      As I stated I didn’t not totally agree with you but did on most points.
      I do not feel we saw the “real” Ronda either. There were rumors I heard that she wasn’t training as hard as usual. That she was distracted as she had mentioned before that she didn’t want to fight anymore. She had mentioned a desire to get into movies as opposed to fighting.
      But what is so interenting to me is that a WOMAN is in Time magazine as the big story of a full contact martial arts sport. And I believe this is the highest paid event- I saw it posted that Rousey got 5 to 10 million depending on the gate!!! I also predict that Rousey will come back with a vengeance and crush Holly Holms. But you have to give Holms the credit- she came in to win and had the plan. And this time she destroyed Rousey.
      My opinion and Monfonogo’s are a little different, but that’s what makes watching fun- a little difference as to the fight and the fighter’s futures. But Monfongo sure nailed it on one point- Mike Tyson and Buster Douglas. Tyson never was the same. And I was a HUGE Tyson fan when he was in his prime. The other disaster for Mike was when his long time handler died and he got in with the man with the crazy hair, Don King.
      As one guy mentioned it would be fun to all hook up and maybe do a video. I should be out next year. My base will be Dallas for my grand kids. But airfare is getting cheaper so anything is possible.
      Good luck with the family!!!!!!

  455. Jan 3 your name was dan santini

    Nov 10 your name was marco martucci

    Now your name is gotti

    you change more then bruce jenner

  456. Hey Rich,
    How’s this?
    It’s Danmarco SantiniMartucci MonfongoGotti.
    And I come from Royalty as my cousin was a high ranking Prince in an Aboriginal tribe.
    Bruce went to him for counseling before making the decision to switch.
    I think your one hundred percent correct Robert.
    Ronda as way too many other million dollar options and movies are at the top of that list.
    I read somewhere a while back that a major women’s cosmetic and perfume line wants her to endorse some new line of products tailored toward women athletes.
    For the rematch she has to put all else on hold and get the best training camp possible.
    This has to include recruiting top stand up sparring partners from boxing and kickboxing.
    I think Anne Wolfe would be an outstanding boxing coach for Rondas rematch training camp.
    Might help in the mental games prep on Hollys side since Anne was considered by many to be the most vicious of the women boxing champions.
    Let’s see if we can make that meet and greet happen when your in Dallas.
    Take care.

  457. I meant mind games that would benefit Ronda and might psych out Holly just a bit.
    Yes, Holly put it all together and her coaches did an outstanding job of getting her ready.
    Robert, her trainer Mike Winklejohn fought Dennis Alexio.
    Joshua, her corner did her no justice.
    Her lead cornerman, also her trainer told her she did good the first round!
    Rumors are that he has prevented Ronda from getting outside help with her striking and kicking.
    She’s been loyal to the guy and that is great, but there comes a time when the choice to seek other training could be a make or break career decision.
    There’s other negative stuff that has floated around about the guy which I won’t get into.
    It’s all out there on the net if anyone wants to know more.
    Has he been an important part of her career and development, yes.
    Will she now need to seek other qualified training, absolutely.
    One thing that has not been addressed.
    She was getting hammered by a technically skilled World boxing champion.
    Holly has knocked out women in her boxing title defenses with less punches and bigger gloves.
    Ronda Rousey takes a pretty good punch!
    But, if the kick hadn’t done her in, the accumulation of punches would have in round 2.

  458. I agree. But she has already been written up in the Daily Beast as the girl that lost the fight but is still the champ. The fans love her. I heard the vibe aout the women’s cosmetic line- that is MAJOR money!!! She will be the most successful MMA fighter of current players.
    But now she will learn from defeat. She has a very fast learning curve. She will come back as a mini Michelle Tyson. She has the power and the drive. Now she needs to up her game.

  459. I know some of the skeptics here will doubt what I’m about to say.
    Robert, you and I could both be a tremendous asset to Rondas comeback development.
    In my “heart of hearts” I believe we each have something of value to offer her that would help her in a Holm rematch and future fights.
    When you look at some of the “names” training some of these MMA stars very few have as extensive a background as either of us.
    This is a very difficult inner circle to break into.
    I did know of one guy in Philadelphia that went to a gym where Eddie Alvarez was training and talked his way into a camp, but he did the first few for free.
    Once he proved himself he started to get calls from other fighters.
    Just read that Mayweather offered to help Ronda with her boxing and defense.
    If true, and I were her I would jump at the chance.
    One thing for sure the pay per view buys and live gate will go through the roof the next time she fights regardless of who it is.
    Everybody will want to see how see performs and what her reaction will be to getting hit.
    That will tell us all if she’s able to shake off the loss and beating.

    • Possibly. One thing I noticed that I have not heard was reach. I believe was the fighter with the greatest reach advantage Rousey ever fought, and she used it well, very well. Rousey was never held off like that. In one of the photos Holms held Rousey at bay when she got an outstretched hand in her face- Rousey was stumped. It stopped Rousey from closing the gap, entering, and grappling. And apparently Holms exhibited a great takedown defense. Holms filled her gaps in offense and defense- Rousey didn’t.

  460. My dearest Mr. Snibbs,
    I read many of your posts.
    They are very entermusing.
    Can clowny be like snib also?

  461. An affiliate from California recently made me aware of this website and what was being said and debated about the late Ed Parker.
    I am an American Kenpo instructor with several schools in Pennsylvania.
    I am here to say that Mr. Parker was not only a great teacher and innovator, he was also highly skilled and more than capable of applying his Kenpo in a self- defense encounter.
    Respecting everyone’s personal opinion on the man it was extremely offensive for me to have read such disparaging comments about this great Martial Artist.
    I dare say that the arguments are pointless when Mr. Parker is no longer here to refute these allegations.
    I do question the timing of such actions and would ask those of you whose opinion of Mr. Parker and American Kenpo are unkind, why now?
    If you gentleman have felt this way for what seems loke decades why not tell Mr. Parker when he was still living?
    I have heard and known
    “fudes” in the arts before, but this bashing of Mr. Parker is the worst example of such unacceptable behavior.
    To the few that have stood up for Mr. Parker you are great examples of what our brotherhood stands for.
    I leave saddened and with a heavy heart for the negative comments posted about this great man.

  462. I feel that perhaps I have been the prime mover in this. So I will explain. I am probably being redundant but it is a very very long thread with some posts being small magazines! So I will tell you my side.
    My name is Robert Libby. I chose Ed Parker off in the 1970s- he would not fight me. He started it and acted like a child and bully. I know of two others that chose him off and he ducked them also. I also believe he ducked the Milo Savage fight.
    You said he was a great teacher and an innovator. Who did he teach? At the Santa Monica school I saw him teach maybe 2 hours in 6 years. During his seminars all he did was talk. I break a harder sweat making my morning coffee. Please submit one video where he even demonstrates the skill level of a decent green belt. I can show you about 5 where he looks like a fool. And for an “innovator” he knows little about fighting or body mechanics.
    So why now? When it comes to computers my daughters call me “Fred Flintstone.” I didn’t even know what YouTube was until I started this thread about 2 years ago. I was appalled at all the McDojos and pseudo masters on the Internet. But what was so shocking was that the reason I left Kenpo and what I knew would happen was Kenpo turned into a cult. It has all the trappings of a cult and many of the dangers.
    I have repeatedly said that a person will choose to fight or run according to their training and their level of confidence. Sadly in life there are times that you just must fight. For example, if somebody attacked my family. But in many instances the person has a choice. So if that person decides to fight because he feels he is really very good and is techniques are viable he will get clobbered if they are wrong. And in a knife or gun situation the decision can be fatal. And Kenpo knife techniques are stupid and the people teaching know nothing about knives.
    So you go up the ranks. You may have even won a few trophies at a light contact point tournament. Your are faster. You know more. Your gi is popping and you feel invincible! But them you get in a fight with a guy that doesn’t know about your training, he doesn’t care about your belts, and he can fight for real. This is what happened to a 4th. degree black belt in TKD in Chico, CA. He almost got killed. My ex-girlfriend was a nurse and actually took care of the guy in ICU. He had a bad concussion and they thought he might lose his vision or eye and vision. Apparently the guy told his opponent “I have a 4th. degree black belt.” And the guy said “so what.” That may not be 100% accurate but is the gist of it. Mr, TKD threw the first kick to the head, the guy stepped in, grabbed the guy’s hair, and beat him like a fur seal.
    THAT IS WHY I POSTED THIS!!! I do not want this to happen to people. Bad teachers, bad concepts, inflated sense of ones abilities, and pumped up on bullshit stories like ones Mills Crenshaw tells get people injured or killed.
    I will close with this- do you really believe Ed Parker was run off the road for no reason and got out and beat the shit out of 5 men armed with knives and clubs in 7 seconds? Because if you do you need to close all your schools because you are a dangerously irresponsible teacher!

  463. Monfongo. Thank you for earlier reply, you honour me sir. Also my respect to Joshua, best wishes to you both.

  464. To Robert Libby, thanks for your reply on Chun Kuk Do & Chuck Norris I always wondered about his origins. Your clarification of that particular era is most edifying. Hope your recovery is going well.

  465. Chen Style,
    Your most welcome.
    Much success in your goals and endevors!

  466. To Robert Libby, If I may humbly add my 2 cents, this latest fellow “Dennis has, as a few before have done before, jumped to th defense of ed parker with no evidence to support their claim other than to say they are a kempo instructor. He claims that ed was a great & powerfull innovator but has little experience or evidence to back his claim other than a heavy heart. As I have followed this thread for some time & done a little work tracing not only your, but Eds history & have come to respect your side side of the story, especially the 6 years you were yourself an instructor during the years of Eds supposed mastery of kenpos theories & techniques. I am yet to hear a valid theory of why Ed did neither demonstrate or validate his experience to other than these mysterious people who venerate him as a god like figure. Bruce lee has never attracted these criticisms as it seems he was only to eager to prove his system by his own hand. However eds followers continue to defend him even though as you say there’s no actual witness testimony or video evidence to back their claims. To the kenpo aficionados out there I have read the infinite insights books & although I found them a good read, I can’t help but listen to Robert Libby’s side of things & not wonder why would he lie? What does have to gain? His experience is validated by many respected kempoists so I ask the question why don’t you question ed parker legacy???

  467. If i may clarify my position on my love of kempo, it’s the Shaolin side of things that I find irrefutable. Whilst ed parker may continue to draw controversy I’ve never heard anyone say that shaolin is a fraud or shaolin was in it for the money or shaolin was in any way not genuine. Ed parker was a Mormon not a buddist therefore he had a different set of values than the true Chuan fa or “fist way”. After hearing a few differing opinions of Eds “way” it becomes a clear that kenpo was more of a business rather than a furthering of the fist way. Please don’t get me wrong I hav a huge respect for many of the actual doers of American kenpo, I just think, & this is only my humble opinion after doing some rudimentary research that Ed may not have been the icon we believe him to be. Question authority, make your seniors accountable for their words,don’t follow blindly just cos a black belt says so, find out for yourself & use your brain to make an informed judgment fellow kempoists & think outside the box it may save your life.

    • The Shaolin point is very interesting. I have just recently seen videos of Shaolin fighters fighting much more like kick boxers or MMA people. They even fight with gloves on now! Although I do consider Wu Shu as a great form of exercise its fight validity s questionable at best. But some of the “new” Shaolin looked pretty good. They definitely got smacked around!
      Your last point is why I chose to do this- to save a few lives, and maybe for some people to save some money!

  468. That is how a cult works. You don’t have to prove anything. The rumors and legends become facts and then become immortalized. Many of these people that say they “knew Ed Parker” is a part of the cult idea- I have been near greatness ergo I am great. And they did not know Ed Parker. They may have met him at an event or some function, but that is not knowing a person!
    The funny thing is how they all parrot the party line- “Ed could have handled himself” or “I used the techniques many times and they work.” What criteria are they using as to whether Ed Parker could handle himself? I can see absolutely no evidence that he could. As to the I’ve used the techniques”, at what level. According to some if you back knuckle somebody and that wins it’s Kenpo- all that works is Kenpo!!!
    But what is interesting to me is that they say “you obviously don’t know Kenpo.” Completely the opposite as it is they that do not understand Kenpo. Each hit in a technique is supposed to set up the attacker for the next strike and that is how it finishes. That is why they practice the techniques so much and then they add the extensions. That is why they have all the terminology. As in triggered the buckling the elbow/forearm lowers the height and moves the center line to stop the back hand strike. But in reality the lowering part lasts a millisecond. The person will not stay there as in a practice session. hey have the right to fight back.
    Any art that does not emphasize “give and take” is meaningless. The practicing the motion or techniques thousands of times works in a fight is absurd.
    As an example take “air guitar.” They used to have contests for this. Well I do not care how many times you do “air guitar”, that is not using the neck, strings, frets, hands, chords, and scales. They are both equally useless against a breathing, moving live opponent.

  469. Hey everyone! I’m in Honduras right now and haven’t been able to post for awhile….

    I didn’t know Ed Parker. I’m a couple gens down the road. This has been an interesting thread to me and just gets more interesting.

    I have no idea if Parker could really handle himself. BUT, let’s see here. He was a big Hawaiian guy. BIG does a lot. Especially intimidate. Maybe his kicks were not so great. But his hands were quick. You’re big and have quick hands= you can handle business usually without doing much. There was a scenarios talked about for awhile when he “fought 5 armed guys.” I think there are a lot of things to consider.
    1. Were the weapons drawn?
    2. How close was everyone?
    3. Did he know initially everyone was armed?
    4. Was everyone on the floor like a Hollywood flick after 7 seconds or did everyone run out or get kicked out?
    5. Did Parker threaten anyone with his words or at some point pick up a weapon as well?

    Parker was not a weapons fighter. He was not about disarming weapons either. So a theory part of the story disarming couldn’t probably happen.

    Cops play the line all the time: they beat up a civilian and he was armed. But the weapon was never drawn or used and cops didn’t know until they searched the person. It’s not really beating an armed person is it? But at the same time it is.

    I imagine a quick fight very close with weapons not drawn and maybe only empty threats until someone swung or pushed. A couple guys go down in pain another tries gets struck then either the fight broke up or guys scatter or maybe Parker picked up a knife and threatened to use it like he was real good with it. Thats realistic and the story could be true.

    “He who hesitates meditates in a horizontal position.”

    Knife technique in almost all arts do not work. Including Kali/Eskrima. In real life that is. Everyone will tell you its stupid to try for real. But everyone practices them still? Why? Its fun, cool and does give confidence. When you’re not frightened you can make better decisions.

    IKCA Kenpo has a very practical approach to knife fighting. It’s the most unique and practical approach I’ve seen yet. X blocks and thinking you’re going to disarm for real is dangerous to believe.

    Practicing techniques over and over thinking the more you practice it the better you’ll be able to actually do for real is backwards thinking. I think that is what happened to Kenpo as it continued to grow and techniques started piling up. Having very strong understanding and ability with the basics was lost. In the beginning I believe you had very strong fighters/brawlers in Kenpo because of the basics. You didn’t have a million techniques yet. What was taught and trained over and over was basics.

    The way Parker broke down motion was great. It hasn’t ever been done so precisely. Some or many people are able to learn the system this way. Personally, I think its way overdone, but that’s how I was taught. But core principle stick! Adding extensions I don’t think teaches how to really blend borrow and combine for spontaneity and for a real fight. You have to practice spontaneous attacks and spontaneous reactions from your strikes to really learn how this is done.

    I believe American Kenpo has a lot to give and offer for self defense, but methods should be altered to make it street ready. Kenpo was designed to change. I don’t get how it became cult like. Even in its current state, IT’S SUPPOSED TO CHANGE. For me, if you aren’t doing that, its not Kenpo. But that’s just how I was taught. We make our stuff work.

  470. Robert, this confirms a lot of my doubts. Can you email me?
    bobbythirty5@gmail.com
    I don’t want to get caught up in the debate. I just want some sound advice. Thanks

  471. The sailors ran Ed Parker off the road. Ed jumped out of the car and so did the sailors. The weapons were drawn which were clubs and knives. Ed Parker DESTROYED all 5 in 7 seconds. The distance had to be tight. From exiting vehicles to the encounter I have no idea as to time but it sounds like an immediate thing.
    Come on Joshua! This is bullshit any way you slice it!

  472. And the repetitive bashing of Ed Parker continues, why gentlemen?
    Can he get some credit and respect for developing a system of Martial Arts that to this day is follows by many dedicated students?
    I would like to ask Robert Libby a question.
    Had Master Parker been willing to fight you, how do you think it would have turned out?
    Now, if we are to believe that Master Parker was in poor shape and had heart issues what if he had died in such a fight?
    What would it have accomplished?
    You seem to be a genuine and knowledgeable man.
    I would ask that you let the man rest in peace.
    Share what you wish that will help others and try to move on from the topic of American Kenpo and the great Edmund K. Parker.
    After all, for some of us he WAS an innovator and legend.

  473. Dennis, way to protect the cult!!! So why would a man with a bad heart threaten to go to a private gym and “hurt people?” Who is the asshole here? I love how you rationalize his childish behavior.
    Even if Ed did not have a bad heart I would have beaten him as he has never had a fight- watch Bart Vale’s comments on that one.
    What you are really saying is “do not bash the system that I teach at three locations as that is my cash flow.” And I did not publish this letter, somebody else did. But many have commented on it.
    But I especially like how you evaded my main question- “did Ed Parker fight 5 guys with knives and clubs and beat them in 5 seconds?”
    Now answer that one!

  474. To Dennis, if you notice the title of this thread/forum it is ” the terrible truth about kenpo” it began by a question of whether ed parker stole/ used information off a fellow named James Wing Woo. Many people who were around ed at this time like Robert Libby have given they’r opinion & experiences of ed parker from they’r perspective. This isn’t an ed parker bashing website, simply a forum for exchanging ideas. Maybe you & other ed parker worshippers could start another forum entitled “the great & infallible ed parker” you could all exchange stories of Eds greatness & slap each other on the back.

  475. Look, I agree that it would take a skilled, in shape Martial Artist with some street fighting experience to handle multiple people.
    And, 4 or more….maybe just enough not to be seriously injured.
    Clubs, knives….no way!
    I’m not protecting any cult.
    While I have very good relationships with two well known West Coast Kenpo instructors, I’m not part of their organizations.
    In fact, I have shared this site and blog with my students.
    They can decide for themselves if they want to stay or leave based upon what is being posted.
    I don’t run a for profit business.
    My schools break even, so it’s not about money.
    Through the years I have allowed many students to pay what they can afford.
    What your saying Robert is that Ed Parker did nothing, right?
    When he was developing American Kenpo and it’s techniques wasn’t that training?
    What about his having studied boxing and choaking out a boxer, was that training?
    Did you ever think that he may have had health issues and could not train at a certain time in his life?
    If true, threatening to beat up beginners is extremely poor conduct and judgement, and if you called him out to protect your students and humiliate him that’s ok, I would have done the same thing.
    I am not here to refute what you are saying as you knew Ed Parker.
    You’ve made your point.
    Can you move on from here?

    • My apologizes if I misjudged you!
      But you have a few things that re wrong. Ed Parker never choked out a boxer- that was “Judo” Gene Lebell.
      The story about the 5 armed attackers is told as if it were gospel and around for decades. Why didn’t Ed correct the story publicly? I had a wikd story told about me and I chewed the people that spread. I also told my classes that we did not like BS stories told about us.
      Basically I am saying Ed did say next to nothing. He sure as hell never taught. He never fought. And 90% of his techniques are seriously flawed. And the way they are taught is that you just demolish the person in each step. I hear terms on YouTube videos like “break his thumbs”, “break the elbow”, “damage the radial Nerve”, etc… Those things will not happen. And then add in the fact that I see people doing defenses from holds where some 5th. degree black belt doesn’t even know what a hold is!
      James Walsh of Charm City Karate does a “rear two-handed choke” defense that is nuts (I use him because he is all over the Internet). You cannot do a two-handed choke from the rear! So as he grabs the thumbs they break, then the elbows, etc… So how can you have confidence in the instructor’s analysis when he doesn’t even know the name of the hold? And the entire video is actually embarrassing.
      So did Ed do anything? Not really. Please prove me wrong. Show me a video or some proof. And I just do not feel that being prolific at writing bad techniques is much of a skill.
      I can tell you this and I think it says a lot. In the 1970s Bruce Lee popularized the nunchakus. So instantly Ed became knowledgeable about nunchakus, and enough so that he wrote a book on it. He also started selling jis own brand of nunchakus. What this says to me is Ed saw an easy way to make a buck and jumped on it. And experience or training be damned. Do you see what I mean? This “standards mean nothing” approach is all through Kenpo, and a whole lot of other arts. Passing an entire class of people testing for belts as it was “graded on a curve” for the whole group! Giving Elvis an 8th degree. How many 10th degrees are there now? Being promoted by his friends 2 or 3 times. And most of this started in the 1970s as I was leaving, and helped me to leave.
      Now you may call that bashing, but I call it a historical revision, and I am not alone. I also know my facts are correct.
      So once again, if I misjudged you my sincerest apologies.

  476. Dennis, thank you, very well put.

    Robert, I agree, if the story is as you wrote, it is hard to believe and probably didn’t happen quite like that. They’re folk stories, so what. Many stories of all sorts of legends are made up and passed on. It’s natural. It doesn’t matter if it is 100% accurate. Especially years and years later. Do you think there were or are guys who became better than Parker? Surpass the teacher? I’m sure it happened. Out of respect and fun grand stories get passed down. Stories change over time.

    McDojo’s have a problem. They tend to not create great products. Students absolutely flimsy and only used to certain circumstances. Parker has a many students with great skill sets. And yah, you got some better than others. Creating great black belts is not easy.

    Many industries have those that create knock-offs on things the person has no real intimate knowledge of. They make a few bucks off the popular trends. And they also continue the availability of the trend to others that may have no interest in the original minds who created it. Parker may have done that. But he also made martial arts more popular in states. I think that is undeniable. You’ve had great stars come out and many not so great ones too.

    Danny Inosanto taught Lee the nunchaku. How many times did Lee clear the air about that. Most people think it was Lee’s all along or he invented them, oh and nunchakus are Chinese, hahaha. Who cares? If you know the truth, you’re just smarter. Inosanto was an Ed Parker black belt too. He was and still is very good. I’ve filmed Inosanto on a few occasions. He doesn’t practice “Kenpo” anymore, but his speed and timing always seem very Kenpo like to me. But he was an early Kenpo guy and out with Bruce before all the hundreds of techniques and extensions and such were placed. I could be wrong about that.

    Have some fun and watch Felony Fights on YouTube. That’s a Lil of what material I base my training for street confrontation, hahaha.

  477. Joshua,
    My girlfriend is “Hondurena”.
    Small World.
    Beautiful family, and just about everyone I have met from Honduras and El Salvador have been quality people.
    The downside is that I was warned that traveling in certain areas there are quite dangerous even if your with locals.
    Is there a lot of Martial Arts activity there?

  478. I am posting to address the Parker/Kenpo debates here.
    My opinion is going to offend some of you, but after reading every post on this thread I think that it needs to be said.
    Kenpo is the least effective style of karate out there.
    Way too many techniques, many of them ineffective, and what MIGHT be useful can’t be done under street stressful conditions.
    It is impossible to devote time to getting in shape, etc. when a Kenpo person has to learn hundreds of techniques.
    Everyone of the kenpo people I have sparred with or seen spar never uses any kenpo, NEVER.
    The majority of Kenpo instructors, NOT ALL, but MOST are out of shape.
    That’s a fact, just look around.
    The Parker films on YOUTUBE plainly show an overweight, and out of shape individual.
    There is a board breaking video with Bill Blanks holding boards, and another well known karate guy whose name I can’t recall.
    If you play and replay that video you will see that Parker is slightly gasping for air.
    And, the double backfist board break is at best, green belt level.
    How Parker was able to promote and get a lot of his times colleagues to boast about his skills is beyond my comprehension.
    The Lucy skit, is pretty much crap.
    Too little, too late.
    Parker should have been exposed when he was alive and made to explain himself.
    If Kenpo is as effective as the “kenpo fanatics” want people to believe, then why has just about every kenpo person taken up other styles, arts, and systems?
    Without naming names, those of you whose opinion is like mine should receive an award for bringing out what should have been told back in the 70’s.
    These are my personal thoughts and I’m entitled to post them just like the rest of you.

  479. Jerome, not all Kenpoists are out of shape,LOL. My wife won’t let be fat, so I stay in shape. My training helps with that. But I think lifestyle has the biggest impact on that. Any person with weight issues is usually dealing with a lifestyle that does not promote better health. Doesn’t mean the martial art is at fault, hahaha. I disagree in tje belief Kenpo is the most in effective martial art. You’re either trained well or not. I have a video reply for you and Monfongo below.
    Video reply:

    https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B_PpMXJw5InOczR0aUcwWk5LVjA/view?usp=docslist_api

    Osu!

  480. Actually in the 70s some of this was brought up. But we did not have the Internet. There was always a buzz out there about whether or not Ed Parker was any good and did he deserve his belts. You never heard anything like that about people like Bruce Lee, Benny Urquidez, or Joe Lewis.
    But with the advent of the Internet the myths got bigger and bigger and the chain grew. I feel the Internet has been the single most destructive thing to happen to martial arts. It can make the incompetent seem great. And so many people are sucked in by a Hollywood vision of what they want MA to be as opposed to the realities of the street.
    Thanks for posting!
    Robert Libby

  481. If we consider that being over weight is due to health reasons it still doesn’t excuse Parker.
    He is supposed to set the example for his students and followers.
    Let me frank and to the point.
    Parker was a poor example.
    He was a manufactured Martial Arts “Master”.
    Libby says he was lazy, I define him as a slob.
    About the only complimentary thing I can say about Parker is that he was an excellent talker-instructor.
    In all fairness there are others who were bad examples also.
    As for kenpo, it’s not completely useless.

    • Jerome,
      There are a couple things to talk about in your statements. Let’s first look at a “excellent talkers instructor”. If you have been around most talker instructors, they can’t move at all. There is absolutely nothing to entertain the imagination. Parker is not in that category at all. Even some of the movements he did can’t be done just sitting on your ass. He trained for a long time diligently. Very likely at some point that was not the case. But he gave a lot of new theory and concepts. Talkers don’t do that, and when they do it looks EXTEWELY BAD. I know many will scoff when I say theory now. His theories were based on real motion and responses. I think as practitioners you have to read between the lines and make it more real and practical to you to use. This goes for any art. Techniques were made to dabble with and give a platform to practice the theories in a vacuum. It is the responsibility of the practitioner to take it outside the vacuum. There are probably many people who practice who never take it out. But that’s a fault of the instructor who probably didn’t teach them that.
      I have been having some fun watching Kelly McCann this week. He reminds me of Robert Libby and his approach to self defense. Nearly exact same movements Libby said he uses in his teaching and personal repoitoire. McCann has his basics video on YouTube if you’d like to check it out.
      I thinks it’s good, but not great. He mocks the traditional arts for obvious traditions and complient ukes(partners). But I see him using an extremely complient uke when demonstrating. But everyone has to when they are teaching. Then he’s using pads the whole time. A lot of pad usage takes away from all REALNESS in my opinion. His basics are very similar to Kenpo basics. Different names and terms. He like saying “index points” and other names. Cool, but the same. When he does the moves on his compliant partner in a more live situation, it looks hoorrible in my opinion. Then it’s played in slow motion and it looks even more horrible!
      Basics are bad. My training is all about strong basics. You don’t have to be ultra flashy, but your shit is gonna be tight. If it ain’t tight, stop that shit.
      But check it, as bad as I think his basic movements look and crappy it looks like HIM doing the stuff “live”, there is a ton I can steal. Certain key points he looks at, striking points and body weapons he uses, altered kicks and punches, his weapon disarm variations: good stuff. I have been rewinding over and over: it makes me sick watching parts of it, but there is some gold I can take out and make my own. Martial arts like life is not always so obvious.
      PUMA Kenpo here we train to have strong basics: that means hard and fast. We do quite a lot of body contact to take the fear of it out of you. How you going to know how and wear to hit someone when you’re hitting pads all day? How you going to know how to block/deflect someone’s knuckles or fingernails when all you done is block and deflect gloves? How you going to be able to go all in for real on the street when all you do is go all in in the ring or at sound of a bell?
      I seen some Krav practitioners BITCH SMACK students when they’re off guard,LOL. It’s just a way to ignite them and see what their true reactions are. We don’t smack our students, but they will get caught off guard with something from time to time and we encourage a bit students are NOT so compliant. “oh you thought you could block it?” “oh, you wanna run do you?” It helps expand the theories and concepts and see how they become real. Good for the instructor as well. Being quite truthful: I often don’t know what I am capable of until someone questions , doubts, or does something to counter what I’m teaching. I was taught to invite it.
      Ed Parker contributed a lot, but its the responsibility of those after to make it more real for them.
      Bruce Lee gets so much praise. He did not like how Wing Chin was for practical use. He didn’t dismiss all of it. He made much of it his own and based on his own capabilities. People say they train JKD, but it was never a completed system. Developing a system is not easy and making a system for generations to follow even harder.
      Some say Bruce could have been a great fighter, and I know some that say he would have been just average. Doesn’t really matter. He’s become an icon and contributes greatly to the expansion of martial arts and the way we think. Ed Parker contributed similarly and was further along in the process than Bruce. Luckily we can learn from both and steal quite a bit from both.

  482. Jerome,
    Also, if my mama was obese, does that mean my mama was a bad one? For her being obese or having health issues caused naturally or inflicted by her own doing, is she not worthy of any recognition? I maybe fit and value that and want to avoid my mama’s personal struggles; I should disregard my mother’s contribution to my life totally?
    Many martial art greats had personal struggles. Some were easily seen and some not as much, but their contributions to not only the arts, but people’s lives live on. We all have faults ourselves and should steer away from being judgemental on others. We can learn from their mistakes and correct them in our own lives, but we should not be the ones to judge. We then limit and bring more negativity to our own life.
    If my mama was obese and a slob, I could still love, appreciate and be grateful for a many more things she taught me through lessons, jokes, chores, scolding, hugs and kisses.
    Happy Thanksgiving everyone.

    Osu

  483. You make some very good points Mr. Joshua.
    That being said, Parker had a lot of “dirty laundry” in his past.
    I agree that he demonstrated some things when he talked/taught but if you look at his breathing pattern a decent shot to the gut would have took him out of it.
    With all the people making their opinions known here I am surprised that his son has not taken to the forum and expressed himself.
    As for Chuck Sullivan and Vic LeRoux I have only heard outstanding things about them and their brand of Kenpo.
    From what I’ve been told LeRoux is a stand up guy who has bent over backwards to accommodate people wanting to get his DVDS by reducing the cost, and even donating to some that couldn’t budget for it.
    These guys are in it for the love of the arts.
    Take spin on American Kenpo rivals pretty much any other defense art out their including Krav Maga.
    Sorry, but can’t say the same for Parker and his hundreds of techniques system.
    Happy Thanksgiving.

  484. BTW, how effective can solo no partner practice be in developing decent self defense IF, you work the basics to the core?
    I hear and read of people some of them Kenpo practitioners say that life like training dummies can diligent practice without partners will definitely develop sound techniques and abilities.
    Would enjoy hearing from you or anyone else on the topic.

    • Practicing without feedback from a living breathing human being is like surfing without water- useless. There are many fine points to a fight that are only learned in a give and take relationship. Seeing how they move, reading punches and kicks, feeling whether or not you can take their shots, knowing what it’s like to get hit, seeing how they react to getting hit, seeing how even the best basics are affected by the uncertainty of real combat, etc…

  485. “””libby said he was lazy.. i say he was a slob.”””. so easy to say that about someone no longer around to defend themselves,, isnt it,,,, smh

  486. Jerome,

    Well IKCA Kenpo is American Kenpo in its more raw state. Chuck and Vic would say it like this: everyone kept wanting more techniques so he (Parker) kept making more for American Kenpo.
    American Kenpo didn’t really need all that. Ed Parker understood the need for great basics. And that’s what he trained and taught at the beginning. Chuck and Vic separated from the mother Association before Parker died. There was no hiding and there was no hard feelings. Parker liked it!
    I don’t know first hand, I am way too young to know, but I would think after his (Parker’s) tough years of training he wouldn’t be a push over, stomach as well. Lot of guys I’ve met that used to train very hard and then for various reasons stopped, consistently have kept that toughness. May not be super studs, but have toughness. It strangely doesn’t just disappear. Like a seasoned soldier, you keep a roughness to you.

    Can you train solo at a high level with just basics training and a dummy? I do not have first hand experience with only dummy training. I personally do very little dummy and bag training. But I have worked with guys who have (only dummy, form, and basics training). A major difference I have seen with the few I have worked with is a very interesting toughness about them when they do techniques or movements on me: THEY GO HARD. A dummy doesn’t go ouch or snap ligaments. Some of the guys I worked with have a very deep seeded trust in what they do and when they get a body: they do exactly the same thing they do to the dummy,LOL. They can be very strong. Similar to how some Wing Chun practitioners can be. HOWEVER: When it comes to learning new or more sensitive concepts on the fly and on a body, the transition is a little longer sometimes.
    I am not very good beating up a dummy. My training has been done on live bodies 80%. 20% visualizing and in the air. The visualizing now maybe a lot more actually. I am trained to look or sense the weaknesses or holes that open before, during or after a stimulus is given. A dummy does not give those. I feel very awkward beating up a dummy or bag. But have respect for guys who use this for a majority of their training. They can be very good. But there are some things you never get a full grasp of without experience on a body or resisting opponents.
    Does this mean they can’t defend themselves? Absolutely not. They can defend great if they are training those basic gross motor movements very deeply and not just techniques.
    Much of my training is visualizing. I have had lots of time working on bodies to recognize tons of variations and possibilities of attack or accidental movements as well as injuries that have taught many lessons. But now being a stay at home father, in school, working part time, and teaching 2wice a week: my time to train on people is limited. The IKCA Master Form makes it easy to stay sharp preparing for multiple attackers, constantly working your basics, footwork and different concepts while also getting a good cardio workout if you actually go fast and hard through it.
    So I do that a lot, watch and learn from media/YouTube/books/video and visualize going through many scenarios. I was trained to be able to do that. I walk through my day partially hardwired into thinking that stuff constantly. Then later when I get a chance to do on students or peers I do them,hahahaha. It works for me. When I get to workout harder or get to work with more even skilled or better peers I progress even further. Blending training methods only makes you better.

    I’d like to make some posts soon of some of my concepts and get some comments back from you all (good and bad). Get questions and doubts. That’ll be fun. As well as see if Kenpo really does work.

    • Dear Joshua, I am going to respond to two posts you made. I did a basic timeline with Ed Parker and some things just do not make sense.
      Ed Parker was born in 1931. He receives a black belt (shodan) in judo at age eighteen so it was 1949 and he was 18 years old. He started judo at age 12. So he starts with Chow on the islands. He trains awhile but then goes in the Coast Guard for 3 years. So I doubt there’s a lot of Chow’s there to teach him while in the Coast Guard. Shortly thereafter he goes to Brigham Young University in Utah. Utah in the 1950s is hardly a Mecca for Chinese martial arts He spends 4 years there. So from his beginnings with Chow to his teaching on his own is say 8 years- 1949 to 1957. So he trained directly under Chow for say a year? To reiterate, he was in the US Coast Guard for 3 years and at BYU for 4 giving a total of 7 years with no contact with Chow. Maybe he picked up some time with summer visits (remember that Parker came from a poor family so he likely stayed on the mainland for summer breaks). So how is he qualified? He had enough hands on time to maybe be a green belt. There is a massive gap in his training.
      Now you claim that he trained diligently. When? The earliest films of him show him as incompetent. This has been pointed out by Dan Djurdjevic and the film record itself. He had crap basics. And during The Lucy Show in 1962 he is in the prime of life. He would have been 30 to 31. 28 is considered by many to be a fighter’s peak as they are in great shape but now have a lot of knowledge- ring time. Where is the proof of this diligent training? Certainly not in his performances. And the video he does with Chuck Sullivan is laughable. All is in slow motion and over extended. And later film evidence show no improvement- The Lucy Show 1962, film stock, Ed Parker the Late Late Show Ireland, “double motion concept” clip, Ed Parker with Huk Planas, and Ed Parker Kenpo Concepts in Motion. But the worst one was Ed Parker’s seminar, Chile. Ed is with Frank Trejo. He is either doing Leap of Death or Dance of Death. As he goes to grab Frank Trejo;s neck he slips and falls on Trejo;s back and rolls off of Trejo. He looks like a buffoon. So where is the proof of his diligent training?
      You also say that he was an innovator. How? He had a shodan in judo yet seems to know nothing about grappling as exhibited by his grab techniques. And how is it innovative to merely repeat what others have done before you? All he did was put some ideas in a somewhat different order. His “scientific concepts” are not scientific. Putting 2 bad ideas in sequence does not make then better. This is demonstrated by his outdated blocking ideas and strikes that have no effect. His forms are pretty much standard fare for MA. And when he does the “double motion concept” he just talks. And so this deep insight that as you do a say an inward to an outward block- AMAZING!!! And extensions of his fallacies are all over the Internet. LArry Tatum is on the Internet doing an escape from a rear bear hug arms pinned. So he explains that the man’s hands will be at his groin as he was grabbed there, and therefore when you do the heel lift to the groin you will break his fingers while you kick the groin. REALLY? Larry Tatum just “knows” this. The reality is he does not know where his hands will be and even if his fingers were there breaking them is highly unlikely. Fantasies passed on down the Kenpo lineage and inflicted on unknowing students.
      So I am still waiting for somebody to come forth and prove me wrong. Punch and grab techniques that are laughable, forms, lots of fancy names, and lots of pseudo-scientific terminology. Please tell me where I am wrong and please use some solid examples. Video would be nice! The reality is that any way you examine Ed Parker the numbers never add up. And when you want the limelight expect to be examined while under it or after you are gone.

      • About the chile demo, Edmund made that spastic hop and trejo didn’t move his arms fast enough Causing Edmund to land with one foot on the bicep and roll off like a poindexter, Edmund then back kicks the prone trejo in the nuts legitimately as he wobbles away

    • One thing I missed. I checked out Kelly McCann. I agree. He does teach a lot of the same stuff I teach. I am of course better looking 🙂 But his methods look solid and efficient. I only watched a few of his videos. There’s another guy named Lee Morrison, also a Brit, and he is really good. He is a pure street fighter and he trained with Paul Vunak.

  487. Gee Kevin, you so conveniently always choose to believe that I chose him off when he was alive. You are truly delusional. Check out a video of Ed Parker doing a demo in Chile. He falls down and rolls over FRank Trejo- very professional. I will be responding to some more questions. But I will use facts and an insght to fighting you cannot understand as oyu have never had a fiight and are using a bullshit art!

  488. that twice now youve accused me of never having fight,, so youve been around me all my life,, you know all the details of my life,, your full of bullshit and everyone here can see it,, your a bitter ole man who thinks by putting down and dead person and promoting your own bullshit,.. you make yojurself look better,, man i pity you.. i really do

    • Really? My support seems to be growing. And there’s a reason for it- I deal in facts. I also put it out there and nobody responded. I can also shred almost all Kenpo concepts and techniques as they are crap in and crap out. Where were you tough guy? Where;s a video of yours? Where is all the input from the Kenpo faithful? They will not say a word. They like there cult money and prestige. Some of them could teach Benny Hinn a thing or two about scamming people

  489. To Kevin harshman, why do you even post on this forum? You never have anything interesting to contribute. You just whine & bitch like…… well like a little bitch. Robert Libby has asked you repeatedly to post some facts to back your claims but you never do. If you don’t like what’s being discussed here then your free to refrain from participating. Robert was disrespected by Ed parker, & others people have experiences with Ed parker that they wish to discuss. Either participate or leave Kevin.

  490. If Ed Parker wanted to prove a little something about his skills and toughness he should have fought the boxer Savage.
    He would probably have gained more from taking it and losing than backing out only for people to question his worth decades later.
    I looked up Savage and his fight history and it sure looks legit.
    It has been proven more times than not that a boxer does better against a karate guy or kickfighter than he would against a judo man or wrestler.
    I’m actually starting to feel pity for Parker.
    But what Libby said is true.
    Alive or after you’ve passed if you were famous or in the limelight be ready to be put under the microscope.

  491. If Ed Parker wanted to prove a little something about his skills and toughness he should have fought the boxer Savage.
    He would probably have gained more from taking it and losing than backing out only for people to question his worth decades later.
    I looked up Savage and his fight history and it sure looks legit.
    It has been proven more times than not that a boxer does better against a karate guy or kickfighter than he would against a judo man or wrestler.
    I’m actually starting to feel pity for Parker.
    But what Libby said is true.
    Alive or after you’ve passed if you were famous or in the limelight be ready to be put under the microscope.

  492. Libby,
    I’m familiar with most of the footage you are talking about. I refreshed myself just a Lil bit by checking out some again now.
    I didn’t bother looking at the Lucy piece. I seen it before and yes, not impressive at all. Remember he was being displayed as a student. Some other older white guy was the instructor in the clip,LOL. The best thing Parker did in the Clip was his falling technique. When he started doing the spin kicks and what not on the fly, it was very funny looking. Even Parker was laughing at himself. It was not a display of him really. He was doing stuff he was not great at, but whatever reason non martial artists like seeing. Not much has changed to this day. People like seeing “lame ” stuff. They don’t know what is good. I think Parker was well aware of that in some of his demos and even in the Lucy show. That was not Kenpo.
    Some other demos he did were not bad. Parker had very fast hands and used his mass to do a lot of work. In a real fight I doubt he would have done kicks much at all if at all. That was not his strength. But he knew how to teach it well. Teachers are not always the best doers. Below is a link to a small Parker seminar. He’s not doing it for the cameras. Yah, notice he’s not doing a ton. Yah, a lot of talking and INSTRUCTING. He actually says a lot of good stuff. Breaking stuff down. It’d be great if there were more guys or gals who could do that. There are not. There’s a part where I believe he says he is no longer much of a kicker obviously. He goes on explaining how to do to it well. He breaks down the combinations and harps on things being strong snappy and torquing. I didn’t watch all 2+ hours. But its good. I understand where he’s coming from and I know its not a bunch of marshmallows.
    Demos are just that demos. I believe he opted to try to be very flashy. He loved it. He liked the limelight. He smiled and kept going g when he goofed. He did a bunch of kicks knowing he wasn’t great. But he had charisma and confidence in who he was. Many people try to get there and never do. Again he probably had his faults, but he brought a lot out of his art and people. He was successful in commercializing his art which was his aim. I’d love that too, but I’m too strict to my code of ethics and standards. I’m not going to hate.
    https://youtu.be/KmHYS4Tcyhw

    Jerome,
    No, boxers are not so widely victorious as you think. Maybe in some fresh ring with gloves. There are many great katatekas who can go toe to toe with boxers on the street. Its happened and keeps happening. Again, it is relative.
    You have a great shotokan guy playing with a boxer, its not all hands. More than likely a big ass sweep and stomps. Good karatekas don’t sit around and throw floppy sloppy kicks. And a sick reverse punch or stiff jabs. And a good karateka that knows boxing well does even better.
    Grappling arts are completely designed to offset strikers. That’s their whole thing really. Strikers don’t usually. Just different focus.

    • This is Bart Vale saying Ed Parker Never had a fight in his life, so how can he teach fighting. He has some good videos showing the fallacies of the grab techniques.
      https://youtu.be/Lh1zxei4toY

      • This Bart Vale?
        https://youtu.be/uhLt6menPq4
        That Bart Vale?

        Libby,
        Fighters fall, fighters get back up. I like Bart Vale for the record.

        This is Bart Vale vs Andy Hug (Kyokushin KARATE fighter)

        It is all relative to the athleticism, fight IQ, rules and creativity of the individual. Not the style. Styles can help, but again is relative to the individual.

        You going to say Andy Hug was a boxer now probably, LOL.
        You said Kyokushin is no good earlier. Andy Hug was a phenomenal Karateka and fighter. He didn’t win every fight as you can see in this fight Vid, but nonetheless, was phenomenal.

        There is no convincing you. You could see tons of examples or get knocked out by it yourself, but you would not change your stance on your opinions. That’s fine, but having progressive conversations kind of gets halted pretty quickly. Sifu Payne just posts a gigantic grin and nods in agreement when talking with someone who doesn’t want to be moved. I used to wonder why, but now I have learned you can’t make someone change their minds when they don’t want to or just see different possibilities.

        Karatekas use feints, economical motion(not in those terms), both arms, both legs, can sweep moving or stationary opponents, block, deflect and much more. But again relative to the opponent and rules.

        But boxers don’t ever lose right? ????

        Osu

        • Hug is not doing Kyokushin, just as Benny Urquidez is not doing Kenpo in the ring. He is doing kick boxing. Kyokushin does not use a hook punch. And I never said Kyokushin was no good. I said that as far as Karate styles go it was okay, but limited. But Hug is not doing Kyokushin, he just happens to be a Kyokushin fighter.
          What you are doing is perverting arts and doing the “he’s from Kyokushin so all he does is Kyokushin.: And that is not how it works. But the overwhelming odds of a Karateka vs boxer the boxer wins 90% or more of the time.

  493. I like this demo clip. Hard fast Kenpo (choreography of course). But good. Notice Parker doesn’t use any kicks here. Very short kicks and buckles. His hands flew. That’s Ed Parker to me. His students did very well too. Some better than others.

    Demos are not easy to perform.

    To do some this fast and on bodies. Is difficult. Especially when they are trying to show many aspects of the art.

    https://youtu.be/qMNGp5XRvcE

    • So a bunch of guys agreed to make each other look good? And none are fighting against people fighting back. This demo proves nothing. They all know what is happening and cooperate. Now go back in time to Bruce Lee- he sparred people with full contact. Go to a Paul Vunak seminar. Paul will fight you. I have rolled with him. And PAul will bounce all over the place and grab people and correct them. When I do my seminars I bring 3 to 4 t-shirts. Vunak brings 2 to 3. When the class is over you are beat. I will expend more calories in one hour of a Vunak seminar than this guys burn in 10 hours at the rate they move. It is 90% talk and 10% action.
      Before you had mentioned that Ed broke down concepts. But what is the difference if the concepts are errant? So he does the “double factor.” Total horse shit. Other than marriage of gravity and back up mass I cannot think of a correct concept. The concepts only work on a person who cooperates.
      I am going to try and do a video in two weeks. I will be limited but I acn get some ideas out. I will show why 5 Swords is a joke and the problems. I will also show why Kenpo grab techniques are absurd- the side head lock and the rear choke that is not even a choke technique.

  494. Don’t agree for the most part.
    Ring or street boxer has it over karate.
    Any sport matches I seen on the net are boxers that are older or past their prime fighting younger, ranked kickboxers or karate fighters.
    And in some of those, the one called K the boxers did good.
    The ONLY way is if the karate guy trains getting hit, contact and his training partners can use their hands.
    My neighbor whose, in his own words, a punching bag at the boxing club out punched and pretty much owned a top karate school owner here that is also a cross fit trainer(he’s in shape).
    He was clocked enough that he didn’t finish ONE ROUND.
    Neighbor just a guy who was used to getting pounded.
    He out slugged a better skilled, in cross fit shape 4th degree who is pretty dam good in karate.
    Karate has more weapons and might work better than boxing against 2 guys, but one on one boxers rule.

  495. If this is what you think Karate is, you haven’t seen good karate at all,LOL.

    • C:\Users\VQ\Downloads\Box vs Karate – YouTube.MKV
      Here is Karate vs boxing. Boxing 3 Karate 0, and it wasn’t enough close. the Karatekas just could not take a punch. All seemed to be in shape and of the same age. The Karate fighters could not lay a hand on them. The leg kicks were avoided and the punches and higher kicks taken on the shoulders. And the boxer was at a disadvantage as they wore gloves.
      The Karatekas got SLAUGHTERED!!!!!!!!!! Just put in boxer vs Karate. They do show one where Lyoto Machida wins as Karate, but he also boxes. And when I see Lyoto Machida or George St. Pierre use a Karate type attack it has a high failure rate. The MMA style attacks work better by far!

  496. Karate doesnt work on the streets or fighting in combat sports,LOL

    https://youtu.be/mY74ziE-rLc

    Its ok to have your opinions. But martial arts of all kinds have their great warriors, but its all relative. Don’t think all Karatekas don’t work evasive footwork and hit to the head or body. Good Karate is good karate.

    Osu

  497. I watched the video. The guy is very talented. He will last about 10 seconds with a decent boxer. In a fight there is no gi to hang on to. The sweeps will not work as the boxer will not turn sideways. He also does the Karate classic- he keeps punching with one arm leaving himself totally open for a counter hook punch, cross, or upper cut. He constantly comes in with his head and body totally open, and his head is high up and not tucked down. A reverse punch is not the same as a boxer’s right cross. The boxer;s cross punch goes about 10 inches further than a Karateka’s reverse punch as they turn the shoulders and hips further. He lacks good hand combinations and has lousy blocking. The boxer will also conserve energy due to economy of motion via slipping punches and tight well controlled shots. The boxer will set him up with feints and head motion and then just knock this guy out. Once they get close it is lights out for the Shotokan Karate guy. He just cannot compete with the efficiency of a boxer’s punch combinations and blocking methods. Any time a Karateka has clashed with a boxer the Karateka gets destroyed.
    Sorry Joshua- this guy would get SLAUGHTERED by a decent boxer.

  498. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ATK3PjN77CQideo
    I am putting the boxing vs karate video in again. I think I screwed up.

  499. Libby,
    And this kid sucked,LOL. Relative my friend. No power, limited technique, and improper body mechanics. The video is lame. Boxer is not fighting someone of comparable talent or skill level.

    Boxer has clean footwork, good body movement and knew how to beat someone much weaker and less skilled….bravo! Hooray! Yippy! Awesome!… Not really.

    • Well then please send me the examples. Boxer wins.
      Also, how do you respond to Bart Vale saying Ed Parker never had a fight in his life, and that Ed Parker was unqualified to teach fighting? But when I see several fighters of the same age and levels of fitness and the boxers always win I have to ask “who is the stubborn one?” and who is in denial”
      You seem to have all the built in lines ready to go. So to the basics, where is a video of Ed looking like anything decent? And I mean an okay green belt! And the Kenpo 1979 video was absurd at best. So I also must heavily doubt your eye for technique and to appraise fighters, and that is so obvious when you keep going into apologetics for Ed Parker.
      I just want one video of Ed where he looks even like a decent green belt. And why won’t you put up a video?

    • Also, how do you explain the Mirko Crocop fight? He took the Kyokushin fighter apart- pro vs pro!

      • Libby,
        Boxing did not create a hook punch,LOL. That is a basic movement of the body.
        You obviously have never trained in Kyokushin. Yes, they train the hook punch. They train uppercuts too! However, karate like stiff jabs and crazy reverse punch not so much.
        Even kyokushin fighters can have problems with good karate fighters. But again, its all relative.
        You don’t know as much about the martial arts as you think you do. There is a lot to explore rather than writing everything off as useless and weak that you don’t know or you didn’t make work for you before.

        My eye is pretty good for good technique and fighting. I was taught well. I was taught too look for many things and I continue learning more. I don’t stop. I too like you favor certain things more, but I don’t write over anything just because of prejudices.

        I didn’t know Ed Parker personally. I wasn’t around. But I have come across many that did and there are those that are very skilled for the street and the rings. Not all martial artists jump into competition. They have better things to do or loved ones that don’t want to see them involved or religous beliefs.

        I know what people look like with Lil or a lot of experience. You can tell a lot too how someone breaks things down. Parker broke it down and harped on things that made things faster or stronger often. Maybe he couldn’t do it, but he knew it. Many old men boxing trainers can’t do anything anymore and many were not amazing fighters themselves, but they know it and can develop great followers. I can say Parker did that. I don’t care if he could or cared to fight publically. Its different things he taught that are valuable.

        You obviously don’t like that,but live with it. Make some videos showing how things can be made better.

        Years ago at a seminar Sifu Payne and I were last ones to go. A senior 2 guys were ahead of us. There was a big falling out at that time with these 2. They wanted to change everything. They said this and that didn’t work bla bla bla.

        Then it was Sifu and I. It was great. We didn’t know what they were going to share, but we had planned to share how what we do works in a multitude of ways. Those 2 made us look even better. We weren’t focused on them, but they looked foolish and we lit the show up and passes on great information and ways to blend what we do.

        Shortsightedness only sees the obvious and the surface. You gotta see, feel, do, change and accept to really be good.

        With the Cro Cop thing. I loved Cro Cop! He just retired. Again and again its all relative. Cro Cop has had his losing days too. He’s human and he’s a prizefighter. It’s part of the game.

        Boxers are cool, but there is a lot more in fighting that that toolset.

        Look forward to your clips. Let’s build off each other and see what’s hot.

        • I am looking to a target date for a video in 2 to 3 weeks. I will still be limited, but can still explain things. I will be doing 5 swords, the side head lock (Escape from Death?), and a rear choke hold. It will show that people that do not know grappling at all should not teach about it. It will also fallacies in comcepts and how they get you hurt.

          • Excellent!
            If I’m fine with Parker not being able to show everything, I think I’m fine with you not being able too as well ????
            Hurry, I’ll make a response to whatever you got.
            What constitutes to knowing grappling?

          • Well for one thing if you are teaching defenses to holds you should at least know what the hold you are defending against does. And you should know if a hold is useful or useless. And I am seeing very high ranking Kenpo people of Ed’s lineage doing hold defenses that are categorically insane. They make claims as to what the holds do and those claims are absurd and the claims made for the Kenpo technique are equally as absurd!

  500. The only person that seems to know what he is talking about is Libby.
    Knows his Martial Arts, fighting, and boxing.
    Bart Valle is no joke either.
    Theory and the like is all well and good, but does the stuff work under the terror of a life and death situation where your life is on the line?
    Here’s my suggestion to the few(you know who you are)that are downplaying boxing.
    I’m talking about the Kenpo believers.
    Go over to your local boxing club and set up a sparring match with a fighter of your equal age, weight, with as many years in boxing as you have in Kenpo.
    Record it and then post it for me and everyone else here to see.
    Enough of the verbal comparisons.
    Do what I’m suggesting and then let us all intelligently discuss the subject of kenpo, boxing, and efficient, effective training.
    Bet you that a 1 year kenpo student gets creamed sparring a 6 month boxing guy 9, if not 10 out of 10 times.
    And please don’t post reasons or excuses why you can’t or shouldn’t go spar a boxer.
    Just go do it and post it.
    Discussion will be very entertaining after we all check it out.

  501. Jerome,
    Boxers rule and Kenpoists drool!
    Boxers are invincible and can lose to no one. Doesn’t matter who you are as a boxer you have no one to fear! You are equipped to take on anyone with no problems! You are set for life and no reason to be interested in learning any other fighting arts, ESPECIALLY KENPO! They can teach you NOTHING and none of them have EVER been in real fights or even fight with other people who fight. They fall over when the wind blows and tear apart with a flick.

    Cool, let’s move on. Libby, Jerome please demonstrate or explain what Kenpoist can and should adapt to be able to fight out of a paper bag.

    Let’s have some fun and build off some substance instead of just scribble.

  502. This goes for any combat art (including boxing):
    If you are to do well in 1-on-1 street fights or in a combat sport arranged fight you need to:
    Know the rules, develop stamina and relaxation, have footwork that accomodates the rules and boundaries, develop striking power, hit real bodies, be hit by real people, toughen body, toughen striking areas, be creative (not predictable), work on head movement, have sharp gross motor movements (basics), work on strength, develop fight strategy, athleticism helps a lot.

    If you are not doing these things, you CANNOT BE A GOOD FIGHTER. Fighting back no matter gives a chance of survival to someone. Hardest object to hit is one that moves. Don’t sit still and get whooped.

    It doesn’t matter what art or self defense system you do, if you are not doing the above, you may not be appropriately be preparing your mind and body for conflict. All people are more susceptible to defeat if they don’t know what’s coming at them. Having training to easily fall back on can help a ton, but even still not guaranteed.

    Boxing can address multiple attackers, but maybe not as efficiently as other systems train for it. Boxing is primarily training for 1 opponent only. Difficult to address multiple attackers when it isn’t trained or thought about. The above things are still required to do well.

    Any additional thoughts to add?

  503. Why don’t you show the Kenpo techniques that work and why?
    I have seen several street fights where a boxer takes on multiple attackers. The bulk of multiple attack scenarios do not work! They do not work because they are predicated on the attackers waiting for you to finish them off as in the Kenpo “10 man wipe out” which is 1 guy 10 times- it is not a multiple attack scenario. The demos are crap as it always goes back to the same problems- bad blocking, weak strikes, unrealistic ideas, and a lack of real combat.
    Back at the Santa Monica school Norm Pattiz would turn off the lights so we ran off of outside street lights. We them put furniture on the mats- then we fought in semi-lit conditions with obstacles, and 2 or more attackers. So that had some reality.
    So all the Kenpo still say how great Kenpo is and I don;t know about “real Karate.” Well them PLEASE SOW ME REAL KARATE!!!!!!!! Please show me Kenpo techniques that work. I will be holding my breath in anticipation!

  504. https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B_PpMXJw5InOQ0ZsTlBpTjIwLUE/view?usp=docslist_api

    Here is a clip of my brother and I performing in a small demo not so long ago. This is a decent display of what I believe Kenpo should look,feel and sound like.

    This is pure spontaneity. THERE WAS NO CHOREOGRAPHY. We only called each other to get together and then we did our thing. We didn’t know what strikes or grabs were coming. We haven’t trained on each other in years.

    Before seeing the actual footage originally I thought my brother stole the show. On several of the attacks right from the very first shot he was millimeters/cms away from shattering all my teeth. You can see him several times look shocked and check that he didn’t bust me. My brother is not a performer. He studders after the initial hit several times to come up with something unique and cool. In reality he flies and walks out or takes off a heel right quick. He had absolutely no idea what attacks I was going to do and even the timing. Believe it or not I actually tried to hit him for real with the attack on a couple of them. I wanted him to show how he really reacts under pressure. I think that’s why I was probably the most impressed of anyone then and now.

    The guy I performed on I had not worked with in years. Literally called him the day before to borrow some cams and see if he wanted to go. He’s 6’3 and around 210lbs. I’m 5’9, 142lbs.

    Again no choreography. See if you notice any familiar “techniques” or concepts. This was a decent performance. I would have much preferred if he had resisted more or gave more feedback. I even smacked him pretty hard across the face hoping he’d come harder: he didn’t, LOL. My rolling takedown would have been better had be resisted or gave more realistic feedback to get up. I personally use opponent’s force to move more fluidly. Again, it was cool, but I know it could have been even cooler.

    These responses were all done from neutral,hands down positions. Fights do and do not start from these positions. We just chose this time to start like this. Also understand some of the demos are done in such a way to show more spontaneity and possibilities. But really we’d prefer to finish even more quickly. But its a show here. We had fun.

    Is there a heavy reliance on gis? Is it choreographed? Is it fast? Is it hard? Where are the points of contact at? Could concepts in them be used for real and spontaneously? These are good questions when analyzing any self defense demos.

    This is open to to good comments, analysis, questions and even hating, LMAO. I know there’s plenty of everything. Have fun.

    Osu

  505. Okay. I guess you were trying to prove some of my main objections to Kenpo. All that was was preset techniques. After the first “attack” there were no counters, no resistance, and all cooperation. And I felt that during the few grappling moves that it would have been a perfect time for some ground fighting. I also feel the techniques were very poorly done. People were getting smothered as the distances were often incorrect. There were small adjustments that needed to be made in order to set up distance for power in the strikes, and that was not done. The contact was far too light and I feel the body shots should have had more force to help the person being hit get used to being hit. The foot work and angling was quite bad- in essence it was sloppy. This was one of my key points. That what you call Kenpo is not what I call Kenpo. Another issue was that after the initial block there was a significant pause which is very detrimental. When I was at the Santa Monica school that “pause” did not exist. As soon as it started you exploded on the person, and people got hit.
    And I was really hoping to see something more than just a tired post 1972 Ed Parker rehash, but that’s what that was! I hope to God that wasn’t your A game. I feel that anybody who watches this may see more of what I am trying to show with my videos. That fight scenarios that are done with one person cooperating is pretty much worthless in a real fight.
    If I am in the area after my arm and shoulder has healed I’ll show you what I mean. I will then share some ideas with you and see what you think.
    Robert B. Libby

  506. Libby,
    LMAO, I expect no less from you. Harder shots? I’m sorry, I haven’t seen any hard shots in your clips. Your also hitting guys 200lbs less than you. You’re a tough man,haha. None of your strikes in your vids have ANY power.

    Remember, none of the movements in the Clip were rehearsed. We had no idea what was coming.

    The only one living in a vacuum right now is you.

    You want more power, angles, more ground fighting? LOL. I don’t know what kinda bum dive bars you worked at, but you don’t jump into ground fighting. Self defense/ real self defense you’re not pushing yourself to get there. Why would I go there if not needed and lose all my power?(like you said in a knife video).

    You’re going a bit absurd now. You say a fight is messy and imperfect and now you want some fixed perfection?

    Techniques poorly done? My man, those aren’t set techniques, haha.

    Maybe you didn’t read what I wrote with the clip. I didn’t have as much resiatence as I would have liked.

    I guarantee you CANNOT pull off any clean movements on the fly with spontaneous attack. Perfect footwork? You’re funny.

    In your knife stuff, its OK. You have some valid points on mistakes many people make. I don’t make them though. You have good knowledge of the blade, but your tactics with it is a distant 2nd or 3rd. Your blade stuff is typical and doesn’t really solve anything.

    Get someone bigger than you to demonstrate with and hit them with something. And yah, you talk too much. Don’t be like Ed Parker and actually move.

    Make me go wow. Let’s see what your C or B game is like cuz you got me falling asleep with the other clips ????

    Let me be nice to end this post: what is Autonomic Response mean to you and do you think it matters in a fight?

    • Okay. So I was with some of my pals up here. After some ex muay thai people got through looking at your videos they were LOL!
      Joshua, you once said it’s about basics! Your basics SUCK!!!!!!!! I watched the Jared Norman video. You constantly drop your hands and show techniques that are just STUPID! Your “open house” video with your brother is a fucking joke!
      So lets make it simple. I will put on my shawl and support hose and come to Maryland next year and simply kick your insulting punk ass. You are a no class little weasel with raging little man complex! You said I had no accident as no video existed of me “flying off of the bike.” That shows you are nuts! You publicly stated that I “whined” about my injuries to my shoulder. That is a complete lie! I merely stated I was hurt and could not do videos for awhile!
      Your analysis of the Ed Parker 1979 Dream Team shows how little you know about martial arts. That was choreographed bullshit filled with bad techniques! Just the sort of shit you would like. Easy to sell and con people!
      When you were teaching Jared Norman or in your sparring videos you constantly drop your hands. You do not even know how to do a Muay Thai kick to the legs! Your always way too sideways and your basics are laughable. You do not even know how to punch!
      See you next year when my shoulder heals! Have plenty of ice bags and Advil! I will beat you in many ways! After I pummel you for awhile I am going to take you down to the ground and show you how little you know!

  507. Libby,
    You got me pissed a Lil right now.

    1. I’m the 2nd one demonstrating
    2. Check your internet connection cuz it maybe lagging
    3. You can’t do what I do without speed, power, some agility, good footwork and precision
    4. You smoking weed right now? Puff puff pass my man cuz you the only one getting high as a kite right now. I want some too!
    5. There is hardly any delay in my deliveries.

    I went back to see my clip to see if there was any validation in what you scribble. What you’re posting shows extremely low insight to fighting and demos. You got me thinking you can shit gold and I haven’t seen any yet, yet you yap like I’m staring right at it. Re-read what I wrote with that clip. I am dying to see your clips. I hope its mind blowing and entertaining. Cuz you make it sound like you walk in water. I’m down for James Brown. Practice what you preach.

    • Joshua, I have read a considerable amount of your post and i will suggest this to you as a Fellow IKCA Blackbelt. Please stop posting because you are making the IKCA look bad.

      thank you.

      Andy

  508. You have shown your true colors.
    Your like a snake in the grass.
    You bring the guy in(libby)develop a friendship then you come out with wise cracks sounding like a “bro from the hood”.
    You reference James Brown, so will I.
    “I don’t know karate, but I know crazy” and some about boxing too.
    Listen, post a contact sparring video against a boxer or at least with somebody throwing some hands and legs.
    Stop avoiding by scribbling and, DO IT!
    A word to the wise.
    If your going to act like somebody’s friend and then ask for constructive criticism, dont come back posting that they pissed you off acting like an “ass”.
    Be a friend, or be a hater, but not a traitor.
    I’m referring to Josh commentary on Liby.

  509. Jerome,
    Snake in the grass? I’ve been trying to have interesting convo, debates and now some video replies showing stuff off and building off them. I’m waiting for Libby.
    Constructive criticism? I know what constructive criticism is and he only gave disses and no specifics at all. You can’t construct with no base.
    Did he even read what I wrote with the clip?! I didn’t say it was amazing and even clarified the circumstances more.
    No constructive criticism, straight dissing and nothing from Libby that comes close to what he wants to pick at with others. What i do is not Kenpo? Ok? Please explain,LOL.
    Lil pissed? Yah. Haters gonna be there, but Libby could have done wayyyyy better.

  510. And yes, I’ll post a fight clip to satisfy your craving to say no one else knows how to fight,haha. I actually had the other day, but had babygirl screaming the whole time. Will do it again later after class.

  511. Joshua,
    Checked out your self defense clip.
    Both you and your brother looked pretty good.
    And, you guys were moving pretty fast.
    Decided to check the forum out and I see we now have Jerome stirring up trouble.
    Ignore the crap kid.
    Keep doing your thing and improving upon your art.

  512. Joshue, I was just showing ideas with kids that know nothing, and I said that right up front. The point was just to show errors and how to make things better.
    All you talk about is theory and “let’s all get along.”
    In the real world you would maybe a green belt. You send one video that’s pure bullshit and want me to think it;s gold. But what can you expect from a system that promotes with DVDs from all over the country.
    To e blunt, what you are doing is a scam. You are a video warrior and know damn little about fighting- you are a Kenpo guy!
    But I am accomplishing what I wanted to. I have people contacting me and addressing serious concerns about Kenpo and what a joke it is. One person has told me a good story about Kenpo. He tried to do 5 Swords in real time- he got knocked on his ass with a straight left to the jaw- I have always said that technique was open for that. He is now with JKD and I am waiting for some input, and they have a REAL BJJ black belt on staff.
    When you are ready to start learning REAL martial arts I can refer you to somebody as I have for others.
    All you talked about was “well, you haven;t seen REAL Krate.” And with your video I still haven’t!

  513. Read every post on this forum from Libby.
    As for realism and providing a service to set people in the right direction for self defense he has done more for many than anyone else posting.
    I am not here to start any trouble either.
    By the responses Josh has given Libby it shows his snake in the grass mentality.
    The last few he is edging him on by opinionizing on Libby video in a way best described as arrogant.
    If he developed a friendship with Libby on the forum, I wouldn’t want that type.
    He’ll probably post angry comments toward me.
    I don’t agree with monfongo either.
    Josh video is, “ok” at best and my personal opinion is not crap!

  514. Is this Morgan/Libby guy really Ron Wilstein? Wilstein was manager of Santa Monica when George Waite signed on just before the Corporation crash. As I remember, Ron developed a really neat Knife Set for his Black.

  515. No, this is Robert Libby. The “Morgan Guy” is a friend of mine. Ron Wilstein did run the Santa Monica school for awhile, but I do not know how long. Wilstein had a falling out with Parker and opened his own school. I, Robert B. Libby, came in when Alex “Lex: Sensenbrenner was there with George Waite. I became the head instructor. I also did a lot of the sales and got the school back on its feet. After I left Larry Tatum came in and then he had a falling out with Parker and he left- see a pattern there? But I left on good terms with everybody. I would even visit sometimes to see old friends and students I knew.
    To set the record straight- I NEVER tried to steal students from the school, but two went with me as they were leaving because I was leaving and only wanted to train under me. I opened a small school at a health club. A former green belt of Ed’s bad mouthed Paul Dalton and I stood up for Paul Dalton. The green belt called Ed Parker and said I tore up my black belt certificate and urinated on it at the gym while saying “Ed Parker isn’t shit!” Does that make any sense at all? Then Ed Parker called the health club and told the owner he would come down to the health “and start hurting people.: Notice he never said he would hurt me. I then called Ed and totld him he was a punk and chose him off. His wife called me at my home in North Hollywood, CA and said “Please don’t kill my husband, he has a bad heart.” I assured her that I would never hurt a sick man. Now that’s the truth.
    I as actua;;y running things when the corporation crashed. I showed up and there was yellow tape across the doors from the IRS and NOBODY was to enetr. I also believe that in the settlement the term IKKA could not be used.
    As to Ron Wilstein- he was training with the Urquidez Bros. for awhile. My students went to spar at a “friendly sparring session.” They were 14 year-old white belts. Wilstein humiliated them by slapping them around. After he did this to my second student I intervened and wanted to fight him full contact, no rules. He refused and said we would fight later. I showed up alone on a Friday and he never showed. His #2 said he “pulled a groin muscle.” I told him that Wilstein was a coward and that he had better run if he saw me again. That is the truth
    You believe what you want. But even from this thread I challenged several Ed Parker black belts to a friendly challenge- they all folded, and one has been shown to be a complete liar.

  516. Vic, I forgot something. I have 5 or 5 videos up on YouTube. Go to “Bad Kenpo Techniques”- I have posted 5 or 6 videos. I am hardly trying to hide who I am which is what you are implying. I am right out there in the open so check them out if you want to.
    I will be doing a video response in a few days to Joshua Pestaner;s video. I am not supposed to use my right arm yet for much of anything but it will mostly be analysis. I will be watching and giving time marks as to where the mistakes are.
    One HUGE one is when Joshua’s brother Joe goes center-line with somebody vastly larger. He does a low groin strike. All they guy has to do is grab Joe and he is over. He put himself in a very bad position. A guy who weighs 105 lbs. should never be center-line, not should he be doing shoulder throws.

  517. Wanted to hit upon the Master Wong topic.
    Don’t know if his certs are legitimate, but having seen his videos he doesn’t look bad at all.
    Seems to have something against boxing as quite a few address Wing Chun vs. Boxing.
    Don’t know if it’s just me, but his accent seems kind of fake.
    He could be British born, I don’t know and correct me if I happen to be off on that.
    Now, onto Kenpo.
    Since I last posted I had some in depth conversations with an individual who directed me to a system called “Dragon Kenpo” and it’s founder some guy Ed Hutchinson.
    Claims to have trained with the late JT Will and to have been a successful boxer.
    Well, I checked out the boxing claim and he fought 1 or 2 fights that may have been 4 rounders against guys with 0 fights and very little actual training or prep for them.
    Worst yet, back in the 90’s he sold a DVD course and sent Black Belt diplomas with the order.
    If Robert or anyone knows more I’m all ears.

  518. Dear Monfongo, as to the Kenpo guy you are referring to I have never heard of him. Jay T. Will had been to the Santa Monica Kenpo school a few times. I sparred with him one time and it was friendly. But I have heard of Dragon Kenpo.
    As to Mr. Wong- he is a mystery to many. If you look closely at what he does it’s all choreographed. And he does a lot of things wrong. He shows an escape from a locked rear-naked-choke that is backwards from how you do it if the choke is on. He was asked numerous about who trained him. His response was “Oh you motherfucking people!!! My Master is too busy and I will not build my reputation on his name.” At least that’s pretty close to what he said. He is on YouTube saying it and he got pissed over people even asking. He also makes a lot of mistakes in his execution of techniques. Also, notice that people always come at him from off camera. I believe he is a physically fit guy that has a good DVD business and zero real world skills! I also believe his accent might be fake. Nobody seems to know where he comes from, where he trained, and he will never spar. But as I said there are a lot of little things that a real fighter has and doesn’t have them!
    Hope all is well with you and the family!!!!!!

  519. Now with fight clip out of the way, Thank you Libby for finally making a comment that we can build a lot off of and actually debate and display.

    Below is a quick response to centerline defense/attack as a smaller person.

    In your response you should include how you think/believe it can’t work, and what you would do if you were significantly smaller. It’d be cool if you could have one of your Thai friends demo on you. Because you will be the much bigger person and they will be able to demonstrate what it looks like to actually deal with someone much heavier and have a longer wingspan. I maybe able to get my brother to demonstrate a response if needed after your response. We do this all the time. Many others have thought what you say. We train with those questions and doubts in mind. There are actually many advantages to being smaller and being over estimated.

    Let the fun begin.

    Osu

    https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B_PpMXJw5InOOFd1VzZwQUFkYUk/view?usp=docslist_api

  520. Hey guys, just wanted to say that the current debate is a universal one but I think it is very healthy for all martial artists in general. I am a former kempo acolyte, but I share many of the doubts abouts kenpos practicality. I remember during sparring sessions thinking, why can’t I make self defense principles work in this format? It was most frustrating cos the theory seems sound but the execution was not. In my previous posts I shared that me & my training buddies started a fight club style format to push boundaries that we couldn’t in class & we invited people from other styles including muay thai kickboxers & they called us crazy cos we never wore pads & went extremely hard on each other. I should say that we were very much into conditioning & we whaled on each other using 2 man sets from shaolin iron shirt to muay thai shin & forearm sets. After a while I noted that what we looked like was pretty far from we did in class so I guess that’s when I started drifting from standard kempo classes. I think all u guys are making some good points about fight theories but it’s pretty hard 2 show in a demo without hurting someone . Unfortunately me my & brethren never had th forsight 2 video what we were doing because this was before smartphones & video cameras were expensive but it sounds like we trained in a similar fashion to Robert Libby’s early days. Keep up the dialogue guys cos this is exactly the type of discussion that keeps martial arts on its toes.

  521. Great questions. I think everyone goes through that. When we train for self defense you makeup certain scenarios. Usually it is with the thought that “the attacker doesn’t know I’m a martial artist.” If you have done gun disarm training you’ll notice often you are using mind games to make the attacker think you are going with the demands and you are frightened or don’t know anything…. THEN BAM! You make your decision with the guy totally unaware and left with what the he’ll just happened. Real life happens very similarly. A fight usually builds up. Also a fight more often happens with people you know rather than a random street mugging. Training with both in mind are important.

    When you train for sparring or combat sports you know that your opponent knows something. You know you’re going to engage. There’s no maybe or maybe not. The mentality is polar opposites. You can’t really train both at the same time. I haven’t seen any art that bridges the gaps seamlessly. I maybe wrong.

    Look at the Holm’s fight. If you broke it down like a Kenpo in terminology you could say Rousey was clocked at the end with a strike from a zone of obscurity. Girl didn’t see it at all. Other instances in the fight you see bridging the gaps. Like Holm’s elbow in Rousey’s grill. Principles are all over the place. Maybe you mean Kenpo concepts.

    Concepts is a tricky thing. Many Kenpo concepts are really strings of much smaller motions. In my fight clip I posted you can see elements of Kenpo concepts. There’s lots of stuff. But not big Kenpo 6 hit combos. You’re not going to do that against a knowledgeable, ready, resisting, athletic opponent. But you can get parts of it. Many martial artists that have “fancy” techniques have difficulty breaking those techniques down to use when they spar. All practitioners must dive deep in order to be able to do that. Some are better than others at doing it; just like all things.
    In my fight sequence just from the top of my head I use pieces of my kenpo techniques:
    Circling devastation
    Bonzai run
    Twirling fans(maybe)
    And many basic pieces of footwork, centerline protection, and punches. In that clip I didn’t do much variety of kicking. Dealing with a bigger opponent its not a great idea a lot of times to kick high(can get grabbed and then you taken to the ground.) I’m sure you’re familiar with that from your sparring.
    Here I too have also gained friendships with other school owners and practitioners from various arts that get get together at events we create to spar. Setup different rules depending who you work with. All in an effort to get better, learn from each other, network, and create greater unity in the martial arts world in our area. We have called it Red Canvas events.

  522. Hey Robert!
    Happy Holiday to you and your family also!
    Your right, after reviewing “Master Wong’s” YOU TUBE stuff some of his techniques seem flawed.
    He does look fit and has some speed though.
    Glad you picked up on his speech pattern.
    It really seems fake.
    I am also enjoying your videos.
    There is a guy whom I feel is not only the real deal, but a pioneer in reality self-defense.
    Ever hear of Bradley Steiner?
    He advocated weight training way before it was an accepted method of conditioning for Martial Arts.
    From what I have heard his Combato system is exceptional in terms of covering all the bases on workable techniques.
    Anyway, keep us all posted in your US trip.

  523. Pingback: Ed Drugs In Fowler California | Erectile Dysfunction Drug Information

  524. Hey there Joshua, may I thank you for your reply. You are on a good path, if I may also call you friend. Please continue to post as you have many relevant theories & experience to share. Robert Libby has a lot to offer as well. At the risk of defending him, he is a obviously a very polarising man, you either love him or hate him. Robert is old & by his own admission has several injuries that he is nursing so I would hope that no one really expects him to demonstrate techniques to a degree of someone 20yrs his jnr. That being said Robert still has a sharp mind capable of very clear analysis & his opinions are very relevant in the field of street self defense. That being said I hope that we can continue the current discussion as I believe that this forum is making some good points on kenpo & if it helps anyone out there reduce risk or injury to themselves or others then we’ve done something good.

  525. Osu!
    Thank you sir. Not looking for a fan club. I just want to learn and have a good conversation (s). I just finished a new response to a Lobby clip. Get ready????
    Hope you all get something out of it and love some feedback.
    Just so you all know: I have been training less than 10 years. Close to 6 has been me teaching. My biggest goal in the arts right now is making my first black belt student. I’m almost there!
    You don’t have be training every day or in the gym everyday or be a man to be able tondefend yourself well and have a good lifestyle. I think I’m just one example of that. Not great, just well trained.
    Osu!

  526. Libby bad kenpo techs 2 clip: https://youtu.be/omdDSCRBSPo

    My response: https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B_PpMXJw5InOOFd1VzZwQUFkYUk/view?usp=docslist_api

    Added note:
    Ball slap more than likely wouldn’t work at the 3rd or 4th strike. He’d be curled up by then protecting whatever he could….UNLESS you are working with a non-moving, resisting partner ???? + why cup the balls with inside of hand instead of like a finger whip? With the whip you rebound way more easily and quickly.

    Keep the convo going guys.

    Osu!

  527. Just found this clip! This is my brother Joe teaching some grappling. This is just an example that a “Kenpo guy” can work anything. It’s a bad label,LOL. Striking and grappling are great and fun.

    https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B_PpMXJw5InOSGY2SVl5TVdMLXc/view?usp=docslist_api

  528. Damn! Sorry, I posted the wrong clip earlier.

    This is the response to Libby’s “bad Kenpo techniques 2 Vid.”
    https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B_PpMXJw5InOUzVqeGwzZHgyNE0/view?usp=docslist_api

  529. Good morning! It’s bright and early here! With only a handful of hours of sleep I’m excited to talk martial arts already! Always in a state of readiness!
    Get ready for another post shortly. This will be a reply post to Mr. Libby’s, “Bad Kenpo Techniques 5.”

    Going through his “debunking” of Clutching Feathers. Note: I do not know this technique. In my system of Kenpo we don’t have that technique or really one like it. BUT Kenpo principles and basics bail us out. See how that happens.

    Then we move on to discuss his “fight tips.”

    Defense against knees
    &
    Defense against “helmet block.” This could also be called the Pensador from KFM or 52 Blocks(sort of).

    Comments and questions welcome. Add to the posts. This should be interactive for everyone, myself included. I’d like to see or hear other’s perspectives and experiences.

    Have fun.

    Libby’s Bad Kenpo Techniques 5:
    https://youtu.be/95ZeO9CDVRU

  530. Here we go ladies and gents.

    Reply post to Libby’s “Bad Kenpo Techniques.”

    Note: also the bracing of the grab hand can be held to keep it more still instead of continuance of yanking of the hair: you could save from losing a huge patch of hair!

    https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B_PpMXJw5InOakxfQktMS1lOSUk/view?usp=docslist_api

  531. Allow me to introduce myself.
    Jack Weir from Boston, MA.
    I purchased the IKCA course when it was on VHS.
    Never tested, but have practiced this system for over 15 years.
    All my workouts were in my garage…ALONE!
    I used a bag and then built a dummy using the IKCA plan.
    When I wanted to work the stuff “live” I would ask anyone of my friends, all pretty good Irish brawlers to attack and even though my timing was slightly off the IKCA offensive techniques worked 90% of the time.
    Sometimes it failed because of my lack of having a resisting opponent to work with.
    I don’t know about other forms of Kenpo but this style is pretty effective.
    Been in over five street situations over the years and it kept me safe.
    Imagining the drills in a street fight through meditation and working on them at least three times per week for about an hour each, like I did is more than enough to have that “insurance” of safety.
    For someone with under ten training years Joshua seems to be very astute and on target with his knowledge of self-defense.
    I learned one thing in my years of solitary practice.
    It can be done!
    And, from my few actual street experiences learned one very real variable.
    You have to be in shape to fight, but NOT NECESSARILY to defend yourself if you master a few effective techniques from a tested system like the IKCA method.
    Not into the belts or dojo buddy thing.
    Will continue to polish what I feel is the World’s best Martial Art DVD course, bar none, alone and on my own.
    Keep up the instructional comments as I will come back often to learn what I can from you guys.
    Before I forget, good or bad person, better or worst than portrayed here…RIP Ed Parker, Sr.

  532. Peter Lucas aka Iam Kumara

    I have read the 241 pages of comments about Ed Parker and the Kenpo Karate Self Defense System he created and developed. The problem that I noticed is there are very few dates, which distorts the truth and the time lines. I was asked to comment on give factual information. Of course, I can only comment on my time period in the Parker system, and pass on info that was told to me.
    I started taking lessons at Ed Parker’s Pasadena Studio in August of 1968. Tom Garraga was the Studio Manager; he was my private instructor (a 1st Brown ,2nd Black in ShotoKan). About two months later, Tom Kelly (1st Black), Richard Planas (1st Brown), and Tom’s wife Cookie came to the school from Texas. Steve LaBounty (Tom Kelly’s past instructor, perhaps the one who promoted him to Black) was the Santa Monica school manager. During this period 1968/71, Dave Hebler did not teach at the Pasadena school, he had his own school in Duarte or Azusa, CA. I went there a couple of times to work out with him and Thompson.
    Within about a month of my arrival, Steve LaBounty left. The rotation went like this. Tom went to the Santa Monica School, and became the manager, and was still the manager when I left in 1972. Tom Garraga left and went back East where he got a job working in a factory. Richard Planas became the Pasadena School Manager. The Pasadena School had three ex-Marines at the same time:Kelly, Garraga, and myself. Kelly and I got along real well, especially with Jack Daniels.
    In 1973/74, Frank Trejo was the day manager of Dan Rodarte’s Kenpo Karate School in Montebello, CA. Dan was the President of the International Kenpo Karate Association at this time. Trejo was a Purple Belt, and was taking lessons from Dan and myself. After Richard Planas left the Pasadena School, Ed Parker came to Dan’s school and asked Frank to manage his Pasadena School.
    I was a student and instructor for the Parker family from 1969 to 1972. As an instructor, Ed gave me private instructions. Ed Parker made me a Purple Belt instructor (rather than a Brown Belt instructor), using the push-pull method. He taught me private lessons (push), then had me attend the Friday night Advanced Class with his Black Belts (pull) many of which had been with him since high school, about 15 to 20 years. I made further contributions to Ed and Kenpo, by writing material on the International Karate Tournament Flame, the Universal Pattern, and the Clock System. They appear in Ed’s books on ‘Insights’.
    In full disclosure, Ed Parker was the best man at my wedding in 1971. I had a swimming pool service business while in college, and I was the Parker Family’s pool man for four years. I was at the Parker house two to three times a week.
    Here are some of the roles Ed Parker played in his life, which took a lot of responsibility and his time: husband, father/parent, elder in the Mormon Church, businessman, Martial Arts Instructor, creator and developer of a new form of Kenpo Karate Self-Defense System, International Sport Karate promoter/director, Kenpo Karate school franchisor, magazine owner and publisher, author, and actor. For those who felt they were not getting all the time and attention they wanted or needed, can read over the roles Ed involved himself in, and then think about how many hours there are in a day.
    Relationships are very difficult. In descending order of difficulty it starts with one’s spouse, children, business partner, students, etc. I try and not get involved in disputes, or take side. I do not know what happened in the relationship between Ed Parker and Jimmy Woo. I’ve never heard a bad word said of Jimmy Woo, which tells me that he is probably a very fine man. I did hear that it was jimmy Woo who worked on the book, created the Parker Forms, and made other contributions.
    What is not known is that after Jimmy Woo left Parker and took quite a few students with him, Ed Parker went to New York and took private lessons from a Choy Le Fa Master. For how long I do not know. Mrs. Parker didn’t tell me. When Brue Lee visited Ed’s school, the two of them would do the Sticky Hands exercise together. Ed’s hands were just as fast as Lee’s which Lee’s students deny). At least you know where Ed got the ability from.
    When a person decides to create and develop a new martial arts system, he/she has basically two choices: to create a fighting or a self-defense system, and also to choose a basic method, a hard, soft or hard/soft system. Ed Parker chose to create and develop a Kenpo Karate self-defense system, whose mission was/is to teach the average citizen, how to defend themselves from a violent person. It was/is not created for karate fighters, boxers, street fighters, or military bayonet fighters.
    The self defense techniques are designed to counter normal attacks, choke holds, head locks, wrist grabs, punches, etc. all 144 plus self defense techniques are a lesson in themselves. The basic, or base techniques introduce Kenpo Principles, which also may be universal in their application in escape, defense/and counters. Ed Parker uses a language model to teach these counter attacks. The model works like this: you take the base movement (word), you can prefix it, suffix it, alter or re-arrange the base. In the Advanced Class, for example, he would first demonstrate the technique. Then he would say to the class of 10 or 12, “I don’t want to see the techniques done the same way twice.”
    During our private lessons, Ed would ask me, “What is the goal of this technique?” “What is another way to get the same results?”
    I do not know when Mr. Parker was diagnosed with a heart condition. I do know that heart medication makes you short of breath. They prevent the heart from reaching its high end, kind of like a governor on an engine.
    Challenges are always rife with controversy; I’ve been hearing them since I was a child. The challenge mentioned was addressed to all martial artists, and not to Ed Parker. And as a mature person mentioned, no one challenged Ed Parker when he was in his prime. Ed used to tell the story of when Chow would have his class spare freestyle. No cups, no protection gear. You could punch your opponent as hard as you wanted, as long as you did not draw blood, or break any bones. You were then using control.
    About 1970, I came into Ed Parker’s Pasadena school to teach a private lesson. Ed was walking down the length of the school executing front kicks. His kicks were high enough to reach the top of his head. After teaching my lesson, I went into the office, and stood in the doorway. I said, “Mr. Parker, the guys in the Advanced Class say you can’t kick higher than knee high.” He looked up and laughed.
    When Ed was teaching either a group or private class, I would sit on the bench, and take notes, the same as I did in my college classes. One day while teaching a private class, he came over and sat next to me as he often did, and asked to see my notes. On this day, he saw me holding my hand ball. He asked to see it. He held it in his fingertips, and squeezed it so that his fingertips touched, and laughed when he handed back to me. I thought that besides Chen Na, Jiu Jitsu, and Aikido, Kenpo requires strong hands, fingers and wrists.
    In 1971, I completed teaching a class, and went into Ed’s office. He was doing paperwork on his desk. After some small talk, he looked at me and said, “Big men may have brittle or soft bones. While a thin man, may have strong bones. It is often difficult to know. You have to be careful of the amount of force you apply.” After years of working to reach maximum effectiveness, I guessed the message was to be more conscious of my power.
    At one of the Internationals, I was sitting with Mrs. Parker and the family, I don’t know how the subject came up in our conversation, but she said that the person people on the islands were afraid of, was Ed’s brother. He was the most brutal person she knew of one the islands.
    Ed Parker took boxing lessons when he was ten years old. Later, while serving in the Coast Guard, he boxed in military ‘Smokers,’ as did one of his Kenpo students, Tino Tuiolosega (Lima Lama), also while he was in the Coast Guard. I myself, (CombaKenpo) boxed in ‘Smokers’ while I was stationed on Okinawa, with the 7th Marines.
    Early in the morning in August 1968, I was taking a private lesson with Tom Garraga. Mr. Parker came in the back door as he usually did. He was limping. I asked Tom “Is that Ed Parker?” “Yes.” “Why is he limping?” “Some Kajukenbo Karate guy kept calling him a Purple Belt. I think he got mad and tired of it. So they met on a road in Arizona. As they were fighting, Ed did a sweep, attempted a kick to the back of his neck, but the kick landed at the back of the man’s head.”
    I was the first person to go all the way through the new system. That is, up to the first 16 Green Belt Techniques. Ed got the instructors together to complete the balance of the 16 Green Belt Techniques. He asked, “Do we have this movement, is it an evolution of the principles?”
    The student must see not only the natural weapons in a different sequence, but this new sequence must also show the student that the principles are also being used in a new way. The curriculum pushes the student so he can experience both. Ed Parker used to say that when he filmed himself doing techniques, he saw holes in the sequence of movements when he played the film backwards. What I’ve done in developing the CombaKenpo System (Combat Kenpo Karate) is fill in the sequences from the beginning.
    In 1971 when I came into the Pasadena School, the other instructors told me that Chow had come to give Ed his 10 Degree Black Belt. I saw Chow doing a form on the mats. He was doing one of his hard style forms. Chow was staying at the Parker Family home. I went into the office and asked if this was true, he smiled and said yes, and the certificate was at the house.
    I don’t remember what month Chow was at the Parker house and school. It wasn’t that important to me. James Mitose came to the Parker studio one or two months prior to this, and also gave Parker a 10 Degree Certificate. I don’t know if he stayed at the Parker family house or not. And no, I did not see either certificate. But stuff gets lost. I saw a magazine with Ed Parker on the cover, with the caption, ‘Athlete of the Year.’ Edmund, Parker Jr. has been looking for it, but cannot find it.
    In 1971, Tom Kelly issued a ‘Last Man Standing ‘challenge to all of Ed’s Black Belts. He was tired of all the bull shit. Some of the Black Belts were talking trash about how good they were, how they were as good as Parker, and trashing other Parker Black Belts. Tom’s thought was, let’s meet at the Pasadena school and clear the air, finish this once and for all. Forget who showed up, no one. So they all had a chance to put words to action, and were no shows. So now that Ed Parker has passed, let’s not hear the BS again…
    Ed Parker left a legacy of his interpretation of the Kenpo Martial Art. It is not the final word, nor do I believe he intended it to be. In his latest books, Insights, read each chapter, expand the material that you know about, make a positive contribution to the Kenpo system, and create a new era towards the ‘Evolving Kenpo.’ James Mitose, William Chow, and Ed Parker, plus many others who taught these men, all made contributions. See how you can add to the lineage. I thank Adriano Emperado who taught Ed Parker, Escrima.

    • Great story. Thank you !

      Osu!

      • And 90% lies. Joshua, I ran the Santa Monica school and Iliisted 16 people that can verify that fact. And Paul Edward Dalton was the manager from 1965 to 1970. Ask Tom Bleecker! He was there. This guy is making up everything about the Santa Monica school. I left in 1970 and came back later.
        Sorry, but once again a Kenpo practitioner is a liar!

      • Okay, I will be closing with this as I have better things to do than listen to stupidity and cult worship.
        Joshua, you rolling around on the floor a little bit proves nothing. He is cooperating with you. Your videos show that you have little if any real knowledge of fighting. All you do is TALK!!!!!!! And yes, I am a 60s kid and had long hair. Everything you deal in is errant theory. I am getting more hits and most agree with me. I ahve been in contact with a former Kenpo practitioner and he gave me permission to tell his story in regard to how “effective” Kenpo techniques are.
        He was sparring. He tried to do 5 Sworda- he got knocked right on his ass with a counter left. The way you block in most MA systems leave you wide open for counters like that. So to the basics- show me one video of Ed Parker looking even passable as a green belt! Show me one person using a Kenpo technique in a real fight! Show me one person using Kenpo in MMA!
        This Peter Lucas guy is just lying. Tom Garraga was never at the Santa Monica School from 1968 to 1971. And the way I know is I was there! And gave the names of people who can verify what I say. The actual main manger over me was George Waite. I forget about him for a second. Alex Sensenbrenner was also there and he did advertising for the school and the books.
        Just because you roll around on the floor or do a technique in the air means nothing. And you mentioned “you lose a patch of hair.” YES!!! That’s what a fight is about. You resist the grab and lose the hair. Just in that statement you showed how little you know about a fight. You also said you do not know clutching freathers. That is one of the most basic Kenpo techniques and I believe a yellow belt technique.
        And another one of your fans is Steve Shaffer. A gutless coward who defames me and won’t even meet me with him ahving all the advantages.
        So here;s the list:
        Mills Crenshaw- proven a liar
        Steve Shaffer- coward- tried to pass me off
        Kevin Harshman- coward- tried to pass me off
        Peter Lucas- liar- I was at the Santa Monica school for those time periods he mentioned (1068-1971)- no Tom Garraga and no Steve La Bounty- I did know of La Bounty.
        So Joshua, you believe all the bullshit you want. You are merely a brainwashed pseudo martial artist who knows nothing of the reality of the street.
        I will post one more thing on this site but must check something first for accuracy!
        Good Luck.

      • I hate to drag people in but ask Tom Bleecker about my facts as I believe he used to manage the Santa Monica school. Contact Albert Cornejo. When I was there Albert also wore a blue-black night watchman’s knit cap when he trained. He drove a white Triumph TR-4 sports car. How would I know these intimate details of the school? On the west wall of the school was a piece of plywood that was used to repair a hole. It said “R.I.P> Jim Demmicke”. Scott missed his head and put his fist through the wall!
        So you believe all the wanna be’s you want to. But when all I see is lies what is the point? Peter Lucas is a liar!

    • Mr. Lucas,
      On the other hand, without your 1st person eye witness account of those days; we would be subjected to a constant litany of verbal attacks toward Ed Parker, such as: fraud! a coward, cheat, Kenpo clown, etc. And kenpoists who studied and remain loyal to the system be insulted, subjected to school yard style bullying, called Kenpo cultists, liars, and more by this disgruntled ex bouncer, Robert Libby and his fan club.
      Thank you for your insights and re telling of those days in Pasadena. You’ve presented a much more accurate version of who Ed Parker was. Many of the persons you named are still around to confirm what you’ve written. Ed Parker Kenpo is alive and well. Many offshoots trace their lineage to Ed Parker Kenpo. Kenpo is practiced today all over the world and is growing all thanks to the efforts of Ed Parker.
      Happy Holidays,
      Steve Shaffer

      • Sorry Steve, but for a coward who wouldn’t even meet with me and me giving you all the advantages you should keep quiet. The only thing your 4t. degree black belt proves is the lack of standards in Kenpo and your cowardice.
        I will be out next year. Same challenge after my shoulder heals. I will grab you. I will use no offenses strikes like knees or elbows. I will merely resist and I will totally defeat your techniques! Put up or shut up you fucking coward and Kenpo fan boy!

    • WRONG!!!! Tom Garraga was not the manager of the Santa Monica school in 1968. And I have never even heard of Tom Garraga! I basically lived at the Santa Monica school from 1966 to 1969 (4 years).
      This was my schedule:
      Momday to Friday- left high school at3:15pm- got on the #4 bus to the Southeast corner of Santa Monica and Sepulveda (5 minute bus ride). Walked across the street to the Southwest corner that the school was on. Was there from 3:30 pm to 10:00pm Monday and Wednesday and member of Norm Pattiz’s fighting class from 8:00pm to 10:00pm. Tuesday and Thursday from 3:30pm to 9:00pm. Also trained Fridays until about 7:00pm as there were no formal classes on Fridays.
      First teacher for Tuesdays and Thursdays was Scott Loring, Scott left and had Russ Feinman, Russ left and had Paul Edward Dalton for Tuesdays and Thursdays.
      Paul Dalton LIVED at the studio. He had a cot in the back of the school and he slept, showered, shaved, and ate at the school. He also cleaned and maintained the school.
      Kenpo black belts that can verify most or all of this- Norman Pattiz, Scott Loring, Robert Eisele, Tom Bleecker, Albert Cornejo, Leo Monahan, Mark Mitchell, David Laredo, Russ Feinman, Jim Dimmicke, John DeLuna, Chuck Sulivan, Vic Leroux, Richard Carthew, and Tom Howard! Richard Carthew came from Chuck Norris’s Tang Soo Do system and started there shortly after me in Scott Loring’s classes. His father always came with him to watch the classes.
      1968 I believe is the year we bailed Larry Hartsell out of the West Los Angeles Police station on Purdue street which is 2 blocks from Sepulveda. I met with Paul Edward Dalton and Norman Pattiz at about 7:00am. Both Norm and Paul drove sports cars and we needed another vehicle so they called me as I would be there at 9:00am anyway. I was 16 at the time and could not post bail; you had to be 18. Ed Parker had called Norm Pattiz to get Larry out as Ed was in Pasadena and we were all in the West Los Angeles area. We bailed out Larry Hartsell, Kenpo black Belt, Vern Holliman, Kenpo black belt, and John Powers, Irish street fighter.
      You are either just confused or a liar!
      The only time I saw Tom Kelly there was about 1972-3 when Benny Urquidez was teaching on Friday nights! There was never any “last man standing” challenge issued as I was there in 1971.
      Your story and the twists on it are pure fantasy. Nice attempt at a movie script! Your “facts” are erroneous as to all the areas I have shown!
      I love how gullible the Kenpo faithful are. Also Ed never had a limp from a fight. Please refer to Bart Vale’s comment tha Ed Parker never had a fight in his life! I know little about the Pasadena school and may have been there one time, but I really do not think that I have ever been there!
      I also love How Steve Shaffer refers to innuendo tall tales as “truth.” How is this in any way the truth or provable? I have named 16 people that can verify what I say. Who has he named?

    • Dear Peter- maybe you thought nobody would check, but you are lying. The man’s name is Tom Garr”i”ga, not Garraga. If you trained under a man for private lessons you should at least know his name. If you say put in an “o” instead of an “i” I could admit to a typo as they are next to each other. But the “i” is the other side of the keyboard from the “a” and a row down.
      So just admit you lied. You may find it cleansing!
      Once again, all your stories are lies! Just check the Kenpo Family Tree, he is like 3 rows down to the left of center!

  533. Listen doubters,
    When a person states facts time and again, and they can be validated, why continue to “harp”?
    Many of you don’t like Robert Libby, but you should respect the man because he knows what he’s talking about.
    Furthermore, working as a bouncer provides experience and insight that cannot be learned in the dojo.
    Part of Robert’s fan club?
    If we are, what’s wrong with that?
    I personally admire someone who tells it like it is and stands up for their beliefs.
    Very difficult to refute the truth, so some of you just keep nagging trying to make the man look bad.
    You should be thanking Robert Libby for the information that he has provided here on real workable street self defense.
    I would rather have ONE Robert Libby to have my back in a time of need than a handful of high ranked black belts.

  534. GRACIAS AMIGO!!!! What is really getting to me is the flat out lying! I find it amazing that I can name about 20 people that can verify my claims about the Santa Monica school and one douche bag comes on and they cling to him like he’s the Messiah! It shows how insecure they are in their training and methodology. And he proves his dishonesty as nobody named Tom Garraga or Garriga ran Santa Monica from 1968 to 1971- Paul Edward Dalton did!
    I checked out Tom Garriga and not “Garraga.” He now has some Tan Wei Academy (there is a Tan Wei Loo cooking academy in Malaysia and you may get that so be careful!) His videos are form WCQJ- Wu Chuan Quiya Fa Kung Fu. I may have the spelling wrong. The videos are laughable at best.
    He does things where he sort of pushes the guy’s head, but I think it was supposed to be a punch, and of c0urse the guy just falls over. And some comments about his devastating throw! They do a weak version of Bruce Lee’s 1 inch punch. Everything is he cooperates and just goes along- where have we seen this before! But I did see a couple of things that were okay.
    Not to beat a dead horse, but where were all of you when I announced I was coming? I said I wold pay my own airfare and accommodations. I also promised not to use offensive strikes, and despite all that as opposed to even one person accepting the one who did accept backed out! And assured me of being arraested!
    In the 60’s we had a word for people like that- coward! But when you team that up with “liar” it’s a pretty bad combination! But what is so sad it is that it is certainly not Kenpo alone- Jack Hogan and his “evil eye” knockouts, George Dillman and his “chi” knockouts, and now DVD belt promotions! DVDs can be a blessing or a curse. Almost all DVD instructions is good for those that have the basics down. One of my favorites is “learn how to train your dog with our DVD!” Dogs, like people come in all types and personalities. These are skills that require “feel”, “reading”, and “sensitivity.” Those do not come in DVD form. They are acquired through years of experience.
    Now we have a person here who trained “alone” for 15 years and can hold his own! Gee, why don’t I believe that? Because you do not learn how to slip a punch on a DVD. Yet people believe this hog wash! I think I will become a video trained brain surgeon!
    Can I use DVDs? Yes, but I have mat time and ring time. A raw beginner should not go near DVDs as it is dangerous.
    So please keep the lies coming and the hallucinatory ideas on fighting!
    And once again Senor Monfongo, thanks for the support!

  535. Libby your insane, hahaha.

    You don’t say anything more than nay say. You add no substance. You’re ludicrous comments and view points are kind of funny, pretty boring and I find it very hard to believe you have live experience and I know you’re not well rounded.

    What are you trying to say? What are you trying to to have people convert to? At least a Mormon, Christian, Jew, or Muslim has something they are trying to help you fulfill your life. You ain’t offering ANYTHING. You like a Chritopher Columbus trying to whipe out all civilization to get a small gang to rule, have notoriety and force people to believe ideals you don’t know much about.

    Shut up already and just post some relevant stuff. You’re just talking and its mega lame. I’m posting man. You just nay say cuz you don’t want admit seeing good,LOL. You see my brother and I performing well on all sorts of ranges and just continue to talk trash and not say anything important. Just make posts and let your actions speak for themselves.

    Please do or teach something impressive and useful!

    I got Another vud coming.

  536. What have you posted! So you roll on the floor for a minute with some guy! Payne;s videos are mostly 30 seconds long. You have a video where your brother is throwing you- with that much disparity you do not use a shoulder throw. He could barely throw you with you cooperating! He should have used a leg sweep or hip throw. You do not know about fighting. All you do is throw around theories.
    I have not put up videos due to my shoulder. And should I sit here and let this Peter Lucas lie his ass off? I was at that school and there was never any Tom Garriga or Tom Garraga. But this is what Kenpo has turned into- a pack of lies to make money.
    I;ll go back to my original opinions- you are not a bouncer and know damn little about fighting. You are all non fact based theories. Your analusis on Clutching Feathers was some weird ramblings that made zero sense.
    Believe what you want. You are a video martial arts in a video system!

  537. LOL. You mock a grappling clip of a teaching demo after you said that we knew nothing of it. There’s a lot of fluidity and display of ground fighting in that small clip. But now you say that’s enough. You are so crazy,hahaha. You say we wouldn’t know how to fight full contact. I prove that wrong. In my clips I show how your talk is not as real as you think. I also disagree with your “fight tips.” Bad fight tips. Another clip coming shortly.
    I’m done making clips where I even mention you. You don’t know what you’re talking about and have nothing to show. Yet, you want others to show and then when it happens you just talk dumb non sense. You can comment whatever you like to my posts, but you have lost any respect from me. Show anything please!
    Only one thing I thank you for and that is the motivations to post some relevant useful clips. Stay tuned, you gonna learn a lot.

  538. Quick clip discussing body toughening and whybit is relevant for self defense training.

    This is also used in many traditional Chinese , Thai , Russian arts and probably others. I did not include them in my clip, but want to acknowledge the others besides Japanese arts only.

    https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B_PpMXJw5InOekFiRjZrcHczSlU/view?usp=docslist_api

    Please leave comments or questions or add by posting your own clips and responses.

    Osu

  539. Joshua,

    Nice clip on the conditioning techniques. I am looking for ways to make my shins stronger but nothing I am doing seem to work. I am kicking heavy bags, pads, and people but it still hurts for some reason. Maybe it’s my age and my bones breaking down after spending the last 30+ years in the martial arts. Any tips?

    Thanks,

  540. You cannot strengthen the shins. There is a coating on them called periosteum and is sensitive.

    • Too bad no one’s mentioned the really bad side effects yet. Bone conditioning with makiwaras do have short term benefits, but provide for VERY long term disadvantages. Although they don’t like to admit it because they’ve been using the makiwara for so long, martial artists in their 40’s-50’s experience pains in their wrists and elbows due to hitting the makiwara so hard. The desired effect, calloused knuckles, stonger bones, does work for makiwaras, but it KILLS the joints. This is because it conditions the bones to be tougher, but not the joints. Over time as you get tougher aand tougher knuckles, you will hit the makiwara harder and punish your joints even more because they simply are not designed for such an impact like your knuckles are. My freind’s father used makiwara when he trained and now he can barely hold a utensil, not to mention a pair of chopsticks.
      This is about the long term destruction by a makiwara. I used a top sports medicine clinic in LA. They have rebuilt me 4 times. I asked them specifically about the makiwara and they all said do not go near one. That sudden jarring stop wrecks everything from the hands up to the shoulders! So please stop dealing in “Karate fantasies.” Tendons and ligaments do not stretch, only muscles do that. So the sudden jarring halt daamages the ligaments, tendons, nerves, joints, and bones.
      Joshua, if you start an argument at least stay in context. I have forgotten more about fighting than you know! And that is not bragging- I have seen your videos and heard your :theories.”
      I EMPLORE YOU, DO NOT USE MAKIWARA FOR BONE CONDITIONING. IT WORKS FOR DURABLE, TOUGH BONES, BUT IN THE LONG RUN YOU WILL SUFFER FOR IT IN YOUR JOINTS.

      THERE IS, however a safe way to contition your knuckles. If there’s interest, tomorrow I’ll post it in here. It’ll probably be a long post, so I don’t want to type it in now.

  541. I just watched your fight tips. WOW!!!!!! A makiwara is very bad for you. It develops calcium deposits, arthritis, and other joint and connective tissue problems. Anytime a joint or body part is in rapid motion and comes to a jolting stop it starts to do damage. If you don’t believe go to a sports medicine doctor
    And you said it gives tunnel vision and focus. Tunnel vision is almost always considered a bad thing. How does hitting an inanimate object with zero motion develop fighting skills or focus? Focus is developed from seeing what is around you at all times and being able to react appropriately.
    And my analysis of your brother’s errant throwing was accurate. The rolling around on the flor was also correct. Somehow you sipping coffee and spouting errant theories is just not credible. Sorry, Joshua, but you are brainwashed and have every built-in defense mechanism. And this pseudo-spiritual mumbo jumbo of :let;s just all get along” is really old. The reason cults do not like critiques is it hurts the cash flow!

  542. This is from a British medical magazine. Notice the part about pain and stiffness! I was previously talking about toughening shins by hitting inanimate objects as being bad. Kicking a heavy bag is a strengthening exercise and not a traditional “toughening” exercise like kicking banana trees. So I was staying within your makiwara context.

    Seventeen subjects regularly punched a padded wooden post (Makiwara) and all 22 performed between fifty and -one hundred pushups on the knuckles every day. Over zealous, use of the Makiwara was recognised as a cause of pain and stiffness in the hands and wrists, but neither practice had a consistently deleterious effect on the mobility of the index and middle metacarpo-phalangeal joints which bore the brunt of the impact. All of the fractures were attributed to injuries sustained during semi-free fighting.

  543. Libby Libby Libby so little you really know.

    If you drink too much alcohol, your chances of becoming an alcoholic increase, but does that mean you cannot drink alcohol at all?

    Boxers develop same conditions you talk about, but there are ways to treat your hands and remedies so you don’t jack up your hands. But the toughening training still does so much. You haven’t done anything in your training. You haven’t branched out very much.

    I have plenty of fight experience, my brother as well and my instructor has tons more than us. I don’t know anything about you, except…..

    You have baby brittle bones, and you have been cut up more times than you have fingers. Sorry, what’s impressive or worth following the example of someone cut so many times they sound like a guy who was cut from a high school JV team and all tore up from the floor up?

    You are the one who is in some cult. You know very little about fighting and haven’t done much. And talk too damn much and worse is most of it is crap.

    White dot and black dot focus are both important by the way. That’s probably way over your head.

  544. BEING BROKEN SO MANY TIMES DOES NOT MAKE YOU AN EXPERT NOR VERY SMART OR GOOD.

    I REPEAT IT DOES NOT MAKE YOU AN EXPERT NOR VERY SMART OR GOOD.

    if you’re not training with balance in the intensity you will break and crumble. If all you do is makiwara and full contact fighting all day, you are going to give in at some point.

    Makiwara training gradually on and off will toughen your bones and you won’t jack up your body. Plus add proper nutrition, stretching and excercise to keep joints and tendons loose.

    You go to such an oddball extreme Libby.

  545. Okay Joshua. Hey, go get busy and sell some more DVD courses. You can believe what you want. I have trained with the best people in the world while you are watching DVDs and doing bullshit techniques to con people. So why don’t you go Twirl your Mace for awhile and think that you know what you are talking about!
    By the way, where is a video of Ed Parker where he isn’t stumbling around like a drunk or falling over people! Where is one video of Kenpo working in real time?
    None of your Kenpo techniques work in real time and that is the core problem you will never answer. Please show me one in “real time.” The supposed “beauty” of Kenpo is that each strike or move sets up the next one. But how can that happen when even the very beginning movements involving blocking and punching fail? How can that be when most or many of the techniques put you in a worse position than you started in ie Twin Kimono!
    So please answer the basics and stop leap frogging around them. You are not very good at obfuscation. So as I said please show me how they work? And in real time please. I’ll be holding my breath in anticipation of your failure!

  546. Who have you been trained by? I have no idea. Let’s start there, you keep wanting to go back to a lame convo about techniques. Street fighting is not about completing those techniques. What is hard to understand about that?

    To you: body toughening is not good or doable, practicing techs does nothing, drills does nothing, form is a waste, makiwara is horribly dangerous(LOL), shins can’t be made harder, grappling is good and then no good.

    Oh and you can slip any man’s punch at anytime and pull off combinations. Oh yah, and do an elbow destruction. And withstand anyone’s strikes.

    Sorry, who are you? This person who can do so much does not look like who I’d expect to see on YouTube. Must be the wrong guy.

  547. Joshua,

    If I may ask, do you believe, or have you been able to, pull off a Kenpo technique in any resistance based setting on the street or in sparring? I ask because the way I have been taught in Kenpo is that the techniques are just “ideas” or “vehicles” to get people to learn how to move or learn about motion to a small degree. For instance, on youtube Bart Vale breaks down a street fight with a guy swinging wildly at other people. He suggests doing the beginning portion of Five Swords to stop him. For me, that wouldn’t work as I am a smaller guy only about 5’4″ and this guy on the video appeared to be rather large. Personally, I would fall back on my Muay Thai training for strikes and my Kenpo training for movement. Just curious about your thoughts.

    Thanks,

  548. I posted this earlier in the thread. This is during my opponent’s belt exam. He is Mich bigger than me. To be fair he had already gone through some fights and I was fresh.

    Tell me if you recognize anything.

    https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B_PpMXJw5InON3JHeURnVTRFd0U/view?usp=docslist_api

    • I guess I missed this one. For somebody “fresh” you sure drop your hands a lot. And all it was was light contact point sparring without stoppage for strikes. Light body contact with no head contact. That is supposed to impress people! You once again prove my points/
      The last guy I promoted to black belt sparred with me full contact with boxing gloves, a mouthpiece, and a cup. We went 12 minutes non-stop. And what stopped it was when he did a bob and weave and I hit him with a right cross in the top of the head. It really about knocked him cold!
      But the funniest part of our training was when I came to the house for his private. His 7 year old daughter had been bullied by a boy at school. SO she trapped his arm and heel palmed him. She broke his nose and about knocked him out. SO a 7 year old little girl had learned more by watching us than most TMA people know about fighting!
      Try harder Joshua as that was merely dead training as there was no contact!

      • You just want to get under people’s skin and mine. You’re not amazing technically or physically. I think you have a good understanding of “techniques”, but it kind of ends there. Only a few more days before I throw this forum away. No one wants to display; just talk.

        I at least showed footage. It leaves people like myself open for criticism and that’s cool.

        Light contact? Then you don’t really train much contact then or did.

        By wearing gloves, does that mean you hit harder? Or does it just protect hands? Which is padded: gloves or knuckles? And last time I checked pads are softer. Purposely as well; protect fighters.

        Yah, kids that watch their parents or siblings train : actually learn a lot and mimic what they see. Sifu Payne’s daughter beat an older boy in middle school on a football field for making fun of girls. She delivered a full out fist to the nose that sent the boy down and obviously ashamed. Sifu Payne didn’t know until the boy’s parents called to apologize. She now is a successful college grad and successful graphic designer.

        My boys used to fight a lot. They were 6 and 7 years old probably. I secretly told both individually I was fine with the fighting as long as no dental or facial expenses occurred from them. Told them next time the other bugged them to just give a great gut shot and the boy would go down and it would be done…. Well one day one of them executed it. He was very excited it worked like I told him it would. Plus no expenses. The boys fought less after that.

        Those 2 grew up watching Sifu train us in the living room at his house, the basement and in my garage. My son would watch our 4-5 hour training sessions all the way through. My step son did not. But he is a wrestler and has learned quite a few throws from my brother and I from Judo. One day a boy was teasing him at church and wanted to fight. I have always explained to my boys to protect themselves and each other. And not to hurt an attacker unless really needed. Anyways, the other boy initiated. My son did an osoto gari (major reap) and right to his hold down positions and disabled him from being able to hit him. As a wrestler his mindset was to control from the top position and that’s what he did until one of the teachers came. The number system in the main service blinked his number and I went to see what happened. He was in no trouble. I patted him on the back and told him I was proud of him that he didn’t hit the other kid. Told him to continue being nice to the boy and not hold a grudge.

        Great job to the kids. Kids follow their idols right or wrong. Hopefully as parents we guide them right.

        • More useless rhetoric! You see Joshua when somebody has a serious accident and all you can come up with is lines like “you don’t have video so it didn’t happen” or “where;s the video of you flying off” it makes you seem a lot worse than stupid; it makes you look nuts, and desperate!
          One thing I learned is how to teach according to the needs of the individual. I did htis by factoring everything in. You know so little that you don’t even realize you are handing your brother a death sentence. You are teaching him standard Kenpo. A guy his size, and he is very small, cannot stay on the inside as he is doing. Even if he hurts the guy the person may fall on him and he is done. What is he? About 100 pounds? You and Greg Payne have no idea what you are doing and have no business teaching. And pads or gloves mean nothing when there is only light contact.
          And when you use terms like “put your night gown on grandma” you only show what a complete asshole you really are and that you are a punk! You also demonstrate how insecure you are as a person and as a martial artist.
          Yes, I shot my mouth off to people like Steve Shaffer, a coward, Mills Crenshaw, a liar, and Kevin Harshman, a coward and fool. But they came after me. And I was at least willing to meet them to prove my points. What can you prove? That you got a black belt through a video testing system- very impressive!
          I will be showing in some of the next videos how IKCA is a technique based sytem by its own curriculum and has not evolved at all. That it still uses the same bad concepts Kenpo has used for half a century. It is easy to do!

  549. I didn’t recognize any techniques that I would know of. I don’t know the IKCA Kenpo system though. Your movement was good and against an average Joe on the street I believe that your hand strikes would have done well for you.

    My only critiques, if I may, is that blocking kicks with your hands and arms is a bad idea. I have broken my fingers a couple of times doing that so now I block kicks with my legs if the kicks are low. If the kicks are high, I cover up like a boxer or move out of the way since those kicks are usually telegraphed. Also, with the speed of your hand strikes comes the loss of power. I believe that if you were to move that fast on the street against someone who was experiencing an adrenaline dump, those strikes might not be as effective as desired.

    These are just a few of my humble opinions as my fighting style has quite a few holes in it too. Keep up the good work. Training is the only way we can get better.

  550. Movements in our Kenpo system can be utilized, but you have to tinker with things to see how that’s possible in sparring or more live like sequences. As an IKCA practitioner you’ll see that we have some fight like sequences for sparring. But even those need to be tweeked to be used in some fashion. At PUMA we aim to have everything count, have a lot of power as well as speed.

    Strong basics are the secret.

    I have certain tricks I use often to get my shots open and most of those tricks are using principles from Kenpo. I love it and it has become effortless.

  551. Oh OK. I thought you were in IKCA. No prob, but then yah, you probably won’t recognize some of the techs.

    Blocking with legs for low strikes I agree, but even then, some kicks can be caught or steered away with a sweeping like block.

    I have jacked up my hands in different ways over the years and do things with my hands now to steer away from doing them again.

    One is tucking my thumbs. I don’t want them getting caught on anything to get hyper extended or broken. Been there.

    2. Keep the hands flexed to be almost board like. So when a strike comes in, I’m not so much blocking , but more like defelecting them. I like using deflections as a strategy to get inside.

    I cover up like a boxer sometimes, but if I can avoid taking full impact I open up to let the strike pass through. There is an example in the clip of that. I spin out of a kick which if i ate it; would have really sucked for me,LOL. But I instead am able to roll out and keep the pressure going.

    This is a Kyokushin type format of sparring where no hands go to the face. However we break the rule sometimes to smack in the face to wake some one up so to not get too comfortable.

    I haven’t been told I hit lightly before, haha. Now, I feel week because I don’t know if I could throw much harder. With him I let a lot of my body shots fly.

    Adrenaline dump can only do so much. It doesn’t help when someone is throwing combinations high and low simultaneously and taking visions away by keeping their hands occupied blocking or eating strikes to the face region. Which then are occupied up top there are many availabilities below. That’s what we look for. We want body shots to make head shots more effective. We don’t want to chase.

    That clip does not display much of a fight strategy for me. I’m being told by our instructor to keep the pressure on him and engage, beat up. Going against a much larger opponent opponent with much longer reach advantage is a difficult task no matter tired or not. That was like Terminator mode,LOL. Eat and roll whatever shots he gave and keep pushing forward. I setup most of my shots. I got a lot of clean shots and hard. And this guy has the same training as me so he is familiar with my setups. This is not the case with other fighters I meet usually.

    Thank you for the points. I def can get better defensively. My defense is usually my offense. I have a more aggressive nature. I have been learning how to tame that better over the years.

    I have fought very good counter strikers and that is always the heel of an aggressive fighter. It sucks to eat a not very strong strike, but is located so well. They can add damage. I do well with counter strikers and boxers, but they can get their shots too if I get too over aggressive or they pickup timing somewhere. That’s what makes training fun.

  552. All good points. What I have noticed in American Kenpo is similar. Hit what is available and move on. I can tell you though that when you go up against an average Joe who isn’t trained, they are more likely to just swing for the fences due to that adrenaline dump, as you may be aware of. It’s at that time that I feel Kenpo, for the most part, won’t work. When someone is swinging wildly you can’t perform a technique, or even part of it. Everything is happening too fast once toe to toe fighting starts. It’s at this point that I rely on Muay Thai. Right before the “toe to toe” action begins is when I would use my Kenpo (at least to start). I have found out the hard way that this doesn’t always work either, especially for a guy my size. If I feel overwhelmed, and it’s a one on one fight, I will resort to my BJJ training to the best of my abilities (I am a 4 stripe white belt) and bring the guy down to the ground and control him there if I can.

    In my entire life I have only been in 4 or 5 fights and each time I would only use Kenpo as a last resort, and that’s only because I am more comfortable with my kickboxing abilities, and I have been studying Kenpo since 1989. For self defense I would use portions of Kenpo but not for a knock down dragged out fight. For me, I just feel that it wouldn’t work as well. I enjoy practicing the techniques and forms. I like the fact that my Kenpo instructor hits us and lets us hit, and we do practice with resistance relying more on the “formulation” phase as opposed to the “ideal” or “what if” phases, but at 5’4″ and 40 years old, I can’t afford to play around if someone were to attack me. I am not saying Kenpo is useless as others may feel, I am just relating what I am most comfortable with. I appreciate your insight.

  553. Joshua,
    I have to address your declining lack of respect for Robert.
    The man has decades worth of experience.
    You have by your own admission under 10.
    Just when I thought you and Robert were on “good terms” exchanging ideas, it looks like the “forum” friendship has gone into the toilet.
    I would have imagined that Payne taught his Black Belts to have a little respect.
    What has started to rub me the wrong way…again is that you seemed to have joined “the others” on the forum who simply don’t like Robert because he tells it like it is and doesn’t mince words.
    My alligence here is to Shihan Libby and no others.
    I do hope that my post doesn’t start another “war of words”.
    Just making my opinion known.
    Don’t think that what your comments toward him are right.
    You most certainly could have found a better way to address your sentiments.

  554. Its better to have something your comfortable with than nothing! Great, I’m glad your training has bailed you outta situations. That’s what its supposed to do.

    I think my training has been a bit unique. My instructor had lots of training through his journey and funneled it into the Kenpo and Judo he taught us. There was no separation really. We all developed differently and our own flares or movements, but the base is the same.

    Even though in my situations I neither have used “Kenpo techs” nor would I ever. But my stances, reasoning and principles subtley used. My angles also. Difficult to write examples, but it has been imprinted in me. Even though I may throw a kyokushin leg kick or shotokan type reverse punch, it with my Kenpo mechanics if that makes sense to you.

    I’m a very slow runner, above average athleticism, but not a true athlete, and very limited flexibility. I focus on having quick reflexes and accuracy in what I do. I believe my Kenpo understanding helps me achieve that. I go from basic practice to trying to practically deliver in sparring situations or an attacker that doesn’t let me know their response ahead of time. Being the teacher allows me to do more often.

    I’m attaching a clip I made for a student who I taught in this private session.

    The sparring in here is at a very light pace. This is done to encourage him to do more and be creative as well as gonfor me hard. I do some defensive tactics here and there and just moving as I do. This is my Kenpo and is not like others in my class. We’re all different as it should be I think. But you can see some of my strengths in this clip. But this is not competitive in the clip. There are other things being done in the clip as this was made for his own use. He’s the only other person to have seen this clip until now.

  555. I agree. My Kenpo has helped develop my stances, reasoning, and principles as well. My angles also. It’s those basics along with the movements and motions that have made me stick with Kenpo for so long and not completely abandon it. I understand that the techniques are just ideas about how the theories, concepts, and principals are supposed to work, but you have to agree that there are those out there who swear by the techniques and insist that they are to be used in self defense situations, which I happen to disagree with.

    In my 30+ years in the martial arts the one thing that I have learned is that it is always good to learn as much as you can from everyone and every system possible. I too am not a gifted athelete. By my own recognition I am not even a “good” martial artist or fighter, but I always try my hardest and I always put everything I have into my lessons. At the end of the day, if your training has bailed you out of a bad situation, then what you are doing is working.

  556. Monfongo,
    I think we have a better understanding after some corgel exchanges on YouTube comments yesterday.

    But life works like this: you want respect, give respect. Want people to be nice, be nice. Don’t want to be offended, try not to offend. It seems Libby doesn’t care to offend often times. Go quickly from analyzing and making good comments and questions to completely dismissing someone and saying someone is some garbage. Sorry, I’m Latino and not raised to behave that way, but if that happens hell we get mad and loud,LOL.
    Anyways, we had some decent convo yesterday away from this thread and I’m fine and think he is too. But i dont know.

  557. Yah, its been said many times here that Kenpo is not supposed to be about the techniques. But I know there are many that get caught up with over training the techniques. With my students, i personally don’t care to see students looking great with techniques, especially in the beginning. Its creating a base to fight back and survive . that’s my job as an instructor. The kid in the Vid is in the coast guard and before contacting me had been carjacked. I owe him to teach him to protect himself as best as possible. I made the clip because he paid me 3 months on advance and because of work and travel due to work missed a lot of class. I called him and scheduled a private session because I don’t want his money. I want him to be safe and have the ability and confidence to protect his family as well. That’s my motivation. Then its learn the art and be more bad ass no matter how athletic or not you are,LOL. The way I train o think goes very well for women too. I love making them super bad! My daughter will start soon. Can’t wait. No boyfriends until she can whoop some serious ass, period.

  558. I use to train and got 1st Black in Ketsugo before going to prison.
    Did 10 in the pen.
    How many of you think you would last in San Quinton?
    The baddest of the worst live there.
    Johsua think you could?
    Mongo?
    Any of you krapo advocaters?
    Even big, bad, Bob?
    If your arts dont work in the joint against gang bangers who dont care about karate or anything else it ain’t no good!

  559. If you really did 10 years in San QUENTIN (not QUINTON) you would be able to spell it correctly! You are obviously not dyslexic and can write sentences so your story is BULLSHIT!!!

  560. Hey!
    Spelling has nothing to do with the real.
    I did the time and thats no bs.
    Can any of you explain how the ma work in jail if it had to be used?
    Ketsugo is everything and that only almost worked.

  561. Great question…
    Being in prison doesn’t require you to have great martial arts knowledge, medals and belts in order to survive the time. If often takes a whole other set of skills and credentials.
    However, I do believe martial science is supposed to work or help in many self defense situations. But like all things you have to know your environment.
    My instructor always makes references to prison and what to do there. People ask him all the time why. Growing up in the Bronx and black, it’s a very realistic possibility. In the dojo’s they always had guys who were coming back after serving time and giving their stories and advice from the activity and altercations inside. It was normal to train with these things in mind. So to this day that is how he still passes down training. Mental preparation and “being hard” help. Again there are a whole set of other rules, skills and creds needed to survive. Not being a push over too fits in. You have to train to dial up quickly. Its small quarter combat usually. What you do needs to fit in a small space and quickly.
    Lastly, I think you need rhythm, timing, swag. If you can pick up timing quickly, I think you can fight anyone.
    I work with a lot of former prisoners(ex-cons), “gang bangers.” Not everyone is “bad ass”. But time in prison changes people when inside. You have to change.
    You can’t be ready for everything. It’d be great to have literal eyes in the back of your head.

  562. I would survive just fine. It is easy when you’re smart. A friend of mine did 2 on a 7 year stretch before it was overturned on appeal- the case was absurd and the appellate court said so!
    I have a college degree as my friend did. I would be reading and writing letters for people- in prison about 70% are illiterate. I would be a “jail house lawyer” and nobody would touch ne. That is what happened to my friend. He worked mostly for the gang;s bosses and “shot callers” and was never threatened.
    Also, I will never go to prison as I do not break laws!

  563. Nice explaining from Joshua.
    Bob, your input straight, to the point, and make sense.
    If I may ask you since you said you have legal know how.
    Have a friend who sued a huge, multi million dollar corporation.
    Went after the CEO for oral breach of contract, but that was tossed due to TIME(statute of limits).
    The CEO strung him along by having his assistant pass off messages that he was going to resolve the issues, and never did.
    Guess he was naive.
    My friend had a disability and because of the stress brought on by the CEO’S inaction and string along, it got worse.
    His quality of life will be affected for as long as he live.
    He file a new one for negligent infliction of distress, pain and suffering.
    What his chances of winning this?
    He can’t afford a lawyer so he’s doing all the papers himself.
    The CEO’S lawyer requested a dismissal with prejudice on new suit, but months before the court had already issued an order for a joint scheduling meeting(what is that).
    If the courts don’t dismiss, and this goes to joint meeting will my friend get any justice from this meeting.
    Poor guy is 50 but looks like he’s 80 from what he’s been through.
    Sorry I ain’t rapping about kenpo or martial arts stuff.
    Maybe your answer would help give hope to him.

    • I could not even venture a guess. In your short comment there are so many variables. Contract, personal injury, or workers compensation law? Where is the court? I mean the variables are never ending and I in no way have the knowledge to even think about answering that.
      The only thing I can say is that despite what most may think is that the court is very pro corporate/wealthy and anti private person. I know many may not see it that way but the insurance industry has spent billions on making it seem that anybody who files a lawsuit is in a “get rich quick” scam. And it has really poisoned juries against the common person.
      I feel for the guy!

  564. Peter Lucas aka Iam Kumara

    For the Ed Parker’s 200 Black Belts, and all Ed Parkers Kenpo Karate Students, I will certify for historical documentation, that what I have written is fact. In August of 1968, Tom Garriga (sp) was the manager of Ed Parker’s Pasadena School, and he was my private instructor until he left. When Tom Kelly and Richard Planas arrived maybe a month later, Steve LaBounty was the manager of Ed Parker’s Santa Monica School.
    I met Steve when Tom and I went down to Santa Monica for a visit. Tom introduced us. About this same time, Ed Parker, Steve LaBounty, Tom Kelly and I went in Ed’s black Cadillac, to a luau held by a Parker relative. The three of them put on a demonstration. Afterwards, we went to the relative’s home.
    There are those who will attempt to diminish the contributions made to Kenpo, and Ed Parker’s System made by the likes of Steve LaBounty, Tom Kelly, and others. Those who know Steve LaBounty, Richard Planas, Tom Garriga, or Dan Rodarte, can ask them to verify my historical statements. Dave Hebler was coming to the Pasadena School at this time on business; maybe he can also remember who was managing the Pasadena and Santa Monica Schools. If it is of value to the Parker children, they can look at the payroll archives for August 1968, and post them, enough said.
    Kenpo students will like this story as I did about Ed Parker. When Tom Kelly, Richard Planas, and Tom’s wife, Cookie, came to the Parker School in Pasadena in 1968, they arrived in an old car from Texas. They parked in the rear of the school, where the car died. I think it eventually had to be towed away. In the office, Tom told Ed about the long trip. After listening to the story, Ed asked Tom, “When was the last time you guys ate”? Tom answered, “Very little for the past two days.” Mr. Parker stood up, took out his wallet, and gave Tom a considerable amount of money, and said, “Why don’t’ you guys go out and get something to eat.” He then handed Tom the keys to the Parker van to use.
    The three of them had to sleep in their sleeping bags on the mats in the school. In no time, Mr. Parker gave them money to get an apartment, where the three of them moved in. Later, when Tom took over the management of the Santa Monica school, Mr. Parker gave Tom and Cookie money to get an apartment close to the Santa Monica School. Richard stayed in Pasadena to manage the Pasadena School. He was also given money to get an apartment in Pasadena.
    I look at the Kenpo System as using the Universal basics system. This includes stances, foot maneuvers, kicks, blocks, punches and other natural weapons use. For example, the Neutral Bow, is used in Kenpo, boxing, kick boxing, bayonet fighting, kali, knife fighting, other martial arts not mentioned. Of course there are slight modifications like foot positions. The Universal basics allow the Kenpo students to transition easily to other martial arts systems.
    Truth, or Truisms: The reason I know the Kenpo Principles are true is that I can recognize the reciprocals. For example, I previously discussed the Parker teaching model of using language as a teaching tool. Each self-defense technique is a base to problem solving against an attack from violent individuals. From the base technique, you can prefix, suffix, add or delete from the base movement depending on the movement of one’s attacker. The reciprocal comes from a U.S. Marines Corps Infantry teaching: in unit combat, you can expect to ‘Improvise, Adapt, Overcome.’
    Another reciprocal, is that one can use the guerrilla warfare methodology and philosophy when attacking the opponents ‘Zones of Defense,’ ( Defense Zones), both against individual attackers, multiple attackers, or in military unit combat tactics. Of course, training to learn to identify changes in movement of one’s opponent, what it means, and the ability to make the correct nullifying and counter movements.

    • Gee, that’s a swell recounting but not accurate. Dave Hebler did not manage the Santa Monica school in any form of a “hands on” capacity. He did not teach there and was always a “Pasadena guy.” Your story is a fantasy.
      Huk Planas did teach at the Santa Monica school but not until the 70s and I beleive he came down from Dinuba, CA. He was driving a light colored Chevrolet that was like a Chevy Nova or Malibu. Yes, Ed Parker had a black Cadillac El Dorado that was a present from Elvis.
      But I gave the list of people that actually ran Santa Monica in a :hands on: fashion. I never once even saw Steve La Bounty there. The only person that was at the Santa Monica school more than me was Paul Edward DAlton as he lived there.
      So you can talk about sharing food all you want! I was there and the only person at the Santa Monica school more than me was Paul Dalton as he lived there! I was there 6 days a week for an average of 5 hours per day or more!
      And now oyu say Tom Garriga ran Pasadena! Make sure you egt your story straight when you try to spin it again! You didn’t even know how to spell the guy;s name for God;s sake!

  565. Peter Lucas aka Iam Kumara

    There was mention in the comments here about using step-through-punches as a teaching tool that is not realistic. Both hard and hard/soft systems use the step through, and the Parker Kenpo system is traditional in lineage. I’ve seen both James Mitose and William Chow use this movement.
    Using the step-through-punch when in training helps the beginning students get used to the movement, but places this beginning student in enough space and distance to see the angles of attack. From the medium distance, and counter by moving closer, or closing the distance.
    The same is true in Kali, where the practice sticks allow the student to see the angles of attack and counter from a distance, to see/observe the angles of action. In the Marine Corps, we also used different distances while practicing knife fighting. Practicing attack and defense at different distances helps to understand the concepts of this combat method. We also used different distances in practicing bayonet and anti-bayonet methods.
    I agree that the student’s instructor should also train the student to do the techniques at a shorter range as the student performs the technique, and moves up the belt ranking as the student improves.
    The Ed Parker Kenpo Karate System was designed by Ed Parker as a multiple-attack system. That is, to teach the student to defend against multiple attackers. Just watching Ed Parker demonstrate this concept, one can immediately understand the goal is to defend, and counter more than one attacker, and be able to strategize this multiple attacker’s movements in relation to one position.
    When I first saw this ‘Multiple Attack ‘demonstration, I mentioned to Mr. Parker that in actual fights attackers are usually closer than in his demonstration. He said, “I realize this, but in the demonstration, I need the students to attack in a predictable manner, so I don’t injure my students. The concept is still applicable.” I’ve had experience when on Shore Patrol in the Marine Corps, breaking up fights and riots.
    This is why the ‘Clock System’ is so important and that I emphasize it. All students must master the concept, both horizontal and vertical. This model is used extensively in all branches of the military. The student must be able to control his opponent in such a way, that he can place each opponent where he needs them based on his strategy to overcome the attackers.
    The Clock System is another example of a reciprocal training and combat model. It is used both for individual combat, as well as military unit combat.
    Another truism and reciprocal, is Ed Parkers emphases on ‘movement and timing.’ The impotence of this concept of ‘movement and timing’ can be seen in all of our sports, and in the military: bayonet fighting and military unit tactics. I refer it to ‘Mass, Moving Through Time and Space.’
    The children and young adults who learn the Ed Parker Self-Defense System, statistically, will never fight in one of our nation’s wars, fight in a street gang war, be involved in a riot, or fight in a bar. But they will be prepared to defend themselves against school bullies, and other bullies and violent attackers in our society.
    I believe I have answered the initial question that started this blog about Ed Parker and his Kenpo system. My answers are based on my five years in teaching in the Ed Parker Pasadena school.

  566. As to step through punches it is overall a crap way to go. Especially when you never get out of that method. I see 7th. degree black belts still responding to step through punches. Nobody uses them. And if you want to get REALLY complex you maybe through a jab-cross combination! WOW!!! And you almost never defend against upper cuts and don’t know how to!
    I have seen Tom Garriga videos! I could defend myself better with tennis. Look at the stuff he has on the Internet!

  567. What a bunch of whiners!
    Can you guys offer anything of substance and value?
    I don’t know or have ever heard of Robert Libby.
    However, I wonder why a guy would fight and argue his facts, time and again if they were not accurate.
    Even though he’s whining also, at least he’s consistent with his facts and timeline.
    Also, I agree that Paul Vunak is the real deal when it comes to useful material as it would apply to the street.
    Kenpo at it’s BEST, is a fair art for defense.
    You can argue with basic techniques, 25 or LESS.
    Good cardio, ample strength and conditioning as it applies to self-defense NOT sporting matches, and previous experience where you have actually used your stuff.
    Like Rodney King once said, “can’t we all just get along”?

  568. Fuck off!
    I won’t stand for ANYBODY saying shit to me bud.
    Come on here again talking bull shit and your gonna know me up close and personal asswhole!

    • What are you referring to? I already said I was sorry if I misjudged you. Now if you are referring to Kenpo techniques, well, they are bullshit!
      So maybe explain what you are talking about and to who!

  569. I would not refer to standing up for historical accuracy as “whining.” I also feel that putting my ass on the line publicly to expose bullshit fails to fall under the category of “whining.” And after teaching at a Paul Vunak PFS affiliate for 2 years the word :whiner was never used in reference to me!

  570. I was not referring to yo sir.
    It’s this new guy posting as Nelson calling us whiners.
    Your insights are explained professionally and with expert detail.

  571. Kenpo all of it including IKCA brand is crap.
    Doesn’t work and too much bs.
    Has anyone ever seen the IKCA Master Form?
    What the heck is that for?
    Most Kenpo people don’t train hard enough and keep talking about how good they are, but it’s all fantasy.
    Show me proof that Ken pu pu works?
    Maybe I can walk around with a note pad and think about different stuff, write is up, name it….then start my own style and have 1000 techniques where I can charge big bucks for tests.
    My first creation as I sit on the toilet is “bowel push/duece drops”.
    At least the stench would stop an attacker in their tracks, right?
    Before the kenpo gang starts to come after me, remember…FREEDOM OF SPEECH!!!!

  572. LOL. You are entitled to your opinion.

    Master Form is an incredible form of 55 techniques that help maintain the basics while also drilling multiple attacker predicaments the whole way through. It is amazing for cardio. The more fit you are and the harder you go through it, the harder it is. If you are training just for techniques, you’re missing the point. Master form also has key concepts from many arts. Allows you to branch off easily or bring your skills into the art. Simple yet complex.
    I am a product of the system and I love it. It has helped me in many circumstances in real life situations, sparring and just being able to train with others in various arts. Its a great base.
    But if you don’t get it, you don’t get it and that’s fine. For any art to work in real life you have to work on it actually working in real life like situations and reactions and test it, question it, even doubt it. If you question nothing you are mentally weak and will ultimately hinder yourself. And working on your body strength, conditioning, flexibility and toughness will only benefit your training.

    Simple. What do you like to train in and why?

  573. Street fighting, the ultimate art!
    My base was vee arnis.
    My opinion is not changing.
    Kenpo in all forms is boring waste.

    • Vee Arnis is great. Professor Lee used Kenpo forms to develop his striking concepts and taught them as well in his system. Professor Vee was a mixed martial artist. Also the instructor of the great Moses Powell of Sanuces Jujitsu. One of Powell’s great student’s, Professor King teaches here in Maryland and at my school quite often. Man is it awesome to see them fly. A lot of similarities to Kenpo. Just in reverse. David James is excellent and I love how he breaks things down.

  574. You know your instructors as you mentioned a few great ones.

  575. My instructor is from the Bronx and trained with many of them. And now has liked the IKCA Kenpo for close to 20 years because he’s able to teach many of the things he learned from those greats from NYC.
    There are some on this thread that think those names I said are phony guys. If you been lucky enough to train with them and even more fortunate to be close to them, you know what’s really up. But if you don’t know, you don’t know.

    Osu.

  576. Phony guys?
    Moses Powell was a beast!
    David James is no joke and Professor Vee was the real deal.
    I guess if your instructor is into the IKCA brand, then it must have some value.
    Anybody from that group of “monsters” that trains in and endorses a kenpo brand would be adding legitimacy to it.
    What makes IKCA so effective for real World defense?
    What other stuff does your instructor add to IKCA?
    Who knows, maybe you will get me to change my opinion of kenpo.

  577. Good day brothers and sisters of the most honorable kenpo forum.
    May we not forget the most vicious of all martial arts, those of my homeland, the Ivory Coast.
    Our ancestors forced to fight for rotten slabs of wild meat developed an art where weapons came first, then the use of hands, fingers,our hardened feet, head, and teeth.
    Many of our most elder warriors fought off wild animals, some by inflicting death by biting and teeth ripping their necks the meat used to feed our tribes.
    The Asian forms of which you argue, this untested method you call kenpo is most popular and used by the Anglo residents of America.
    My own eyes have seen the popular grand masters of your beloved art on many occasions.
    The beauty and swiftness of the chest slapping and floor stomping is very informative.
    My humble observations detec some truly epic techniques that in our civilized society may work very decently.
    Would the best of the kenpo tribes, the masters like spekmen, spry, trejo, sanders, and to the bottom of the barell list degree pyane and presner a young articulate martial arts master of the latin culture.
    May you please post your respect and knowledge of the tribal arts, the martial arts of our great African Zulu warrior masters?
    I will come here often to read your views as I cherish your honorment of Zulu systems.

  578. IKCA Kenpo was made to be a simpler Kenpo. It’s more raw and focus on having greater basics over having more techniques.
    The system brings in concepts from different arts that the GMs learned over the years and included concepts they faced that were very difficult to overcome. When they came across something they respected, they added it to the system.
    Concepts are not repeated through the 55 techniques. The techniques are deigned to not really be complete. Meaning they just give a glimpse of a new concept against a various attack. Its up to the practitioner to find how to really use it and end it. It’s Kenpo, and more from the original state before the addition of the many techniques.

    How do we insert other arts? The IKCA system has so many concepts from the different arts so if you recognize a movement and have a deep understanding from a previous trained art; its easy to expand the concept. Its a great simple framework.

  579. Joshua, I have the IKCA master plan or whatever it is downloaded. It mentions none of this. JKD is like Kenpo? Bullshit! That’s like comparing a dump truck to a Ferrari!
    Once again all you are doing is citing pie in the sky theories with no substantiation. And when the techniques are being done the “opponent” stands there and does nothing. That is referred to as “dead training. You are seriously delusional.
    And to set the record straight all this “LOL” bullshit shows you have the maturity of a 10 year-old.
    So back to the basics. Show me one video of a Kenpo technique ever being used in any format! It has and never will be done as the techniques do not work. All this garbage of the three phases, starting with the “ideal phase” is garbage to fill manuals. All you constantly do is try to constantly reassert that Kenpo is a great system, yet there is never any proof. There is only endless grandstanding and propaganda that is not fact based. All you ever show is a few things that can be gotten of a video, but never show in any way how Kenpo really works. But I have been in contact with people that have said the techniques do not work in real time. A student with a brown belt and 4 years in saying he tried to do Five Swords in real time and got knocked right on his ass with a counter straight left. That is the reality of Kenpo- a bad blocking system coupled with a myriad of meaningless strikes that do not generate power. Those two absurd components are then merged with an endless stream of meaningless jargon.
    Take the videos of some of the top Kenpo people and out them to 0.25 speed and see how sloppy they are. I see techniques where they are missing the target by about a foot. Strikes that cannot get there as in the side headlock technique where the double hammer fists are useless and it is physically impossible for the groin shot to get in as taught. The beginning of Short and Long Form three is Destructive Twins. The technique is stupid from start to finish. The strikes are useless and leave the Kenpoist totally open to get knocked the fuck out! It puts their head right in the aggressor’s hook line. All the double hit ideas in the techniques are referred to as “arm punching” by anybody who understands punching, which you clearly do not!
    So please keep pushing the videos! So now martial arts has been reduced to a video to exhibit a student’s abilities; that is truly pathetic! But I forgot- your Kenpo is somehow special! All you are showing is the same crap that has been around since the 60s only not done as well!

    • Ay Libby, grow up.
      You don’t read, you don’t watch, you don’t comprehend. You’ve been given footage, you’ve been given writing, you been given interviews now and you still wanna talk about five swords and techniques not working live. You’ve been told a million times that yes, techniques don’t work live, yet you wanna keep coming back to it?

      You got hit too many times in the head. When you’re arm heals up, you got some other things to work out.

      It’s OK Libby, do whatever you like, it’s cool. Guess what. I’m good too. I’m blessed in life. And I’m pretty damn good with my art and been fortunate to use in real life and be able to talk about it later. I have trained others that have been able to be fortunate and get out of bad situations with their training. I’m going to keep doing my thing and growing. Got training this morning with a student whos going for the ride. I’m not teaching, just training. Feels good and school just finished for me for a bit yesterday. Thankful I have time to train now.
      Going to run, list weights, stretch and do my Master Thing(LOL). And much more.
      If anyone has some valid questions, ask away. Hope Vic’s interview sheds more light on IKCA Kenpo and how cool Kenpo can really be as well as effective in real life.
      Have a great day everyone.

      Osu!

      • Joshua, just putting up a bunch of nonsense proves nothing. The only thing you put up that was worth a damn was some of the Kyoushinkai fighting. All the rest was crap riddled with false ideas. JKD is like Kenpo- my ass.
        I will be changing format a little. I will be playing the words and video sections of leading Kenpo practitioners and let them hang you on your pown ideas and lack of Kenpo knowledge. The problem Joshua is that you have no idea as to what Kenpo is supposed to be. So I will let Jeff Speakman explain that to you and then show why all the principles are wrong.
        I will also be doing analysis as to why your training methods are errant, and GOD are they!
        Maybe someday you can leave the cult@ But I doubt it!

        • Libby,
          If my sparring/fighting is “worth a damn” then it validates my Kenpo. It’s my Kenpo base with its principles that hold me together. So thatnk you.
          My form of Kenpo has a lot of “JKD concepts.” Watch the clip of Vic LeRoux I posted. Because it is just some concepts I know from JKD does not mean I know JKD. It’s just another piece of my Kenpo.
          I do know quite a bit about Kenpo. For you to say I don’t reflects you actually don’t know very much. If all you can do is RECITE techniques and PRINCIPLES; you do not know Kenpo at all.
          Libby, I’m sorry you cannot be spoon fed how to use it or do anything. It doesn’t work that way. These are arts and you must ultimately own them yourself. Can’t be spoon fed. You’re an empty vessel just reciting things.
          You going and saying this technique and that technique are crap and disprove Kenpo works is laughable. You’re an idiot or a newbie if you think that’s how arts work. YOU CANNOT BE SPOON FED.
          You can teach someone painting techniques, but you can’t make them paint if they don’t feel it, love it and know how to use those techniques to make something original and put it on the canvas.
          Maybe you sucked and that was discouraging. You found something that made more sense to you. Good for you. Glad you found something you enjoy and works for your body type and that you could comprehend. Some people never find it. Your lucky.

          Osu.

  580. A good day brothers of the kenpo tribes!
    I have read and analyzed the most comments from that of the latin culture kenpo authority elder joeshua.
    The tribe senior king whom must i state is most confident in his speakings and opinions of which I, Faleak Fuburubi must instantly be in his agreement, leader libby.
    josshua, i have studied all of your sayings when you have posted.
    there must be a question to which i will ask an answer from you, like leader libby has so brilliantly stated what is it that you mean by adding LOL to what it is that you must say?
    As i searched on the world wide web for it’s definition all educated have written that it equals the statement laugh out loud.
    It is to say that while coming to the forums tribe to answr and reply you are laughing as you write.
    is it that you laugh at leadre libby as you answer to him?
    should this be as i suggest, in my country laughing to yourself while one writes is a signal that one is in the premature stage of insanity.
    are you my brother ok?
    pleae allow me to know as i may be so open as to suggest a treatment plan that will help you.
    may you sometime go to the web ans look for laughing out loud in africa countries and as Faleak as so humbly mentioned it may show a “crazy man” in search for attention and most needs the help of society professional in the region of privite counselings.
    Leader libby, you have greta insights and would be sincerely welome in many warrior martial arts tribes of my countrys.
    i am both intrigued and entertained by all the various talks here on the beloved art of kenpo and how much hatred and disdane there has to be for its founder edawrd parkers.
    soon i plan to post a film on youtube of my warrior art and it’s strikes and rips so that many of you who know, can give any insight on what i do.
    until my next, may the peace consume all.

  581. LMFAO. Look that up tribe leader, hahahahohoho bwahahahaha.

    You guys are nuts.

  582. Again a day of good to all.
    Addressing with most humble ramblings my latin kenpo patadore Master Josuha.
    IT is not I nor we that are as they say here in america, “coo coo”.
    For it is the statements that endear Faleak to this most greatest of global forums on karate kenpo and now the most high of Afrikan Arts of destruction.
    The film which i pray to post will be that of me Faleak attacking a 400 pound wild animal in the jungles of my homeland.
    As all to see, I will stomp the beast with my bare, hardened, and athletes feet until i am able to render it my own.
    Faleaks follow up with be combined chops and snaps with the biting of it’s neck.
    as my film will show all, that evening my tribe will feast on its meat and use it’s fur to make our kind of gi top as we call sopny.
    our belt is the animals ears tied together by its tail.
    the end will show my kenpo friends, afrikan breaking skills as we use thumb shots and turning head butts to disintegrate it’s bones.
    with my loving hopes that all most especial our amigo kenpo stylist joshua can include my instructions from the youtube film to his ACKI kenpo course rim culins.
    i now bow humbly to everyone.

    • Thank you for your kind words raficki my elder leader of coast clan tribe. We awaiteth witnessing you fighteth the furocious koala bear! Please embrace our fear for you and turneth it into your driving force to take his ear with your razor sharpeth teeth! May you addethbit to your tail belt!

  583. It is most late my dear friend the kenpo latin man.
    I must tell you no bear to beat for koala meat no taste so neat.
    My feet to stomp a giant chupicaga as those are reginis to the kongo regions of Africa.
    As you are today an honorary member of my tribe, will yous too give me a film learning black as you say, sceneturon for kenpo as yoi in kiac ?
    My yearning hope will some day to be that we, you and me can sit and feast on fresly beaten wild beast.
    Should you acept my honor, i will habe one of my ten wives cook for you the most famous of latin cuisine rice and beans.
    For you also my heartfelt brother of kempo she will coseenas tabeen lomast.

  584. No, actually it does not as Kenpo people feel that any single move that works is automatically Kenpo. I will be coming out with a video of how Kenpo is supposed to work, what supposedly makes it special, and why that is so wrong! It all works off of faulty premises. The fact is you know nothing of Kenpo or its roots and game plan! And I will be using a 9th. degree Kenpo black belt as the source! A student of Ed Parker’s! Then I will shred it!
    Now go sell some DVDs!

    • “I WANT YOU TO ALWAYS REMEMBER THAT KENPO WILL ALWAYS BE THE ART OF PERPETUAL CHANGE….IF YOU REMEMBER THIS THEN THE ART WILL NEVER BECOME OBSOLETE”….”THE IGNORANT REFUSE TO STUDY AND THE INTELLIGENT NEVER STOP”…..Grand Master Ed Parker

      That’s Kenpo. Its not staying the same. However, that all depends on the practitioner/teacher. If they teach as exactly as Parker taught them and nothing more, its obviously not changing. It is Kenpo, but not the extent of Kenpo.
      Yah, a lot of things that work can be fitted into Kenpo. However, I do see some major conflicts when trying to fuse together arts like Systema, Aikido, and some Indonesian arts(hate I can’t remember the name of one in particular.) They are extremely unique in methods and opposite of Kenpo principles. I find even the merger of eskrima with Kenpo is difficult. There are many that’d argue on that. I think there’s a lot of conflict of principles. But even still there are things that can be taken and added to Kenpo.
      So Libby if change is not apart of what you think Kenpo is supposed to be, then you don’t know Kenpo.
      In my Kenpo there are many influences and picking up other arts or concepts is generally easy. Also depends on the personality of each individual. Some may not feel right adapting certain things for various reasons. I gravitate to Karate more, but that’s just me, I like that flavor. My brother likes adding Filipino and Kung fu concepts.
      Can’t keep spelling these things to you differently. How many ways can you spell “wow”?
      You didn’t understand Kenpo. Nobody took the time to break it down for you. You got the techniques but no substance. Ok, move on. You still mad after 40 years? Do your JKD and show us how bad ass it is. Great! Your gripes with Kenpo are beyond lame. Put the recorder on and let’s see some bad ass concepts from Robert Libby’s JKD version! It’s easy and way more productive as well as funny and educational.

      • *fun and educational

      • Yes, it has changed so fucking much that you have been doing the side headlock technique Grip of Death wrong for about 50 years. And it was pointed out about the problem in the 1960s. It has changed so much that they are still doing the same shit techniques even after so many have pointed out that they do not work! Kenpo has not changed at all except for getting worse and more cult like!
        No Joshua, I understand Kenpo. Now understand what you are in- a cult!
        And Greg Payne does a video where he says to a guy that is about 6 inches taller “well I can’t go to the outside of the hook.’Really? I thought you said he had boxed? It’s called a “bob and weave.” Go sell your “get along” and “move on bullshit” for those dumb enough to swallow it! You are a con! You know damn little about anything involving fighting!

  585. Compedra Josuha,
    Why has not Faleak read from you?
    Have I offensive you with my witty talk of your food kind?
    Not hoping only needing to cook that freshly beaten beast meat that one of my wipes will season for you with how is it said,
    adubo.
    The taste is most close to moose, dear, or skunk.
    Today, i practice 10 very durable minutes and i feltbpayne in my buttocks fron very much strech poses.
    My admire kenpo as some is covinvly just same as ata ma mu a striking art from uganda.
    Let us cherish this bond of friendship from my tribe to yours.
    Holiday most content to everyone for the day of hifts is near in but just a few days and nights.
    My mind slipped, so i will ask.
    Can any kenpo persin hetes do a feet and fist workout on a sand bag for Faleak to enjoy?

  586. Dear Tribal Brother Josasu,
    You have a dislike to Libby, why?
    Is it not the purpose of the ” youngins” to completely emerse in the teachings of the elder masters?
    Is it not a disrespectful behavior to contently blatantly argue ?
    Tribal Brother how can you compare you less time in our arts to the decades of practice from another?
    I may remove my invitation for freshly grilled wild beast with beans and rice with an invitation to Libby rather than you.
    Has your grand master whom I detect was pain not taught you that right or wrong you are to bow religiously to us?
    Here is my number please call as I wish to counsel you.
    770-621-2686.

  587. Robert,
    Happy Holidays to you and your family.
    I was researching hand to hand combat recently and the name Brad Steiner has popped up as the preeminent authority on the subject in the
    States.
    Do you know anything about him?
    From the info available, I like that he was an advocate of weight training for self defense way back in thought I would check with you since I consider you the go to authority on the subject.
    Throug

    • Same to you and tours! My daughter just got back from university! I do not know this guy. But I do know that Joe Lewis and Ron Marchini were into weights. Marchini did a book with I believe Leo T. Fong? It came out in the 60s or 70s. It was very basic but had good photos and was accurate. I bought a copy of it but lost it years ago! But sorry I on the Steiner guy. But LArry HArtsell and several of my teachers lifted. Benny and Blinky lifted.
      Happy New Year and Merry Xmas!

  588. This is a “CEASE AND DESIST” order.
    Stop bashing me and allow me to, RIP.

  589. To Robert Libby, merry Xmas sir. Thanks for all you’ve shared over the years on this thread. Before reading your posts & delving into your & kenpos history I never thought to question history. A lot of people hav critised you for many reasons & you are without a doubt a cantankerous old basted but I really enjoy your opinion & athough I disagree with some of your opinions I think you make some great points as well. Best wishes for your shoulder & family.

  590. Good Christmas to all!
    Why no answer to Faleak?
    Ok everyone from the arguments regions?
    I no wish to worry as we are all brothers here.
    Durabu esoinokulu voxwsaqihubz(happy holidays in my native tongues).
    Please all practice and only small wine to celebrate!

  591. I had the book by Ron and Leo.
    It was and still is very good.
    Basic, full body weight training works well with Martial Arts training.
    As we end the year I want to take this opportunity to wish everyone a bless New Year.
    Hopefully, 2016 will bring us closer as we discuss and exchange effective ideas on practical self defense.
    I would like to recognize Mr. Robert Libby for hisbecpert insights and no nonsense, take no bs attitude.
    While others have expressed their opinions, some of value as well, we have to acknowledge that Robert has tested his stuff and his opinions are doing all of us here a great service.
    I understand that some of you may find his “ways” out of line with tradition, I have yet to read anything he has stated here that wasn’t true.
    What started as opinions and fact on Ed Parker has brought us together.
    And, like family we have bitched and argued but when push comes to shove if we were out somewhere and were faced with a” “situation” or on a plane and had to take care of “business” dollars to donuts we would be united as one and all the disagreements over the past few would be irrelevant.
    Happy New Year!

  592. Hey monfongo just wanted to send best wishes to you & yours. I really respect you & hope you have a great 2016

  593. Chen Style,
    I appreciate what you’ve posted.
    You are part of “our family” here(Robert, me).
    Happy New Year to you and yours as well.

  594. I study from the IKCA home learning program.
    Been at it 14 years.
    Never took a belt test, but I hopped around testing my practice against school trained and belt tested practitioners.
    No problem, my techniques equal most mid range black belts in other systems.
    I’ve sparred and did pretty decent.
    My loner practice for all my years has been on bags, shadow style, and with my best opponent….ME!
    I will happily debate self instruction and it’s value with any ranking member of this forum.
    While American Kenpo has way too many techniques and material to remember under duress, IKCA is a streamlined, lean, mean, no nonsense version that if perfected can stand up to ANY other self defense oriented combat or Military art.

    • Well you keep thinking that. There are fine little differences in timing, distance, muscle memory, and feel that develop over time. And solo work can never replace that- it is physically impossible.
      As to holding your own with others- non-contact or “kiss contact” sparring means virtually nothing!
      As to IKCA being lean and mean- I have the curriculum downloaded. It still does the same stupid blocking system, the star block pattern, no real ground fighting, and same stupid non-viable techniques! A few of the techniques might work.
      I would advise you not to bank your well being in a street fight on this system! You might want to go put the gloves on with somebody and actually test yourself. Go try some REAL JKD people and see what happens. There are a lot of fake JKD and BJJ people out there!

  595. Will respect for your comments, I tried it with gear against school trained black belts.
    My kicks and punches worked just fine.
    Believe me when I say that I have practiced on real hard objects and if I hit an untrained assiliant/human half as hard he’s going to sleep.
    My IKCA techniques explode on these objects.
    But, I will ask…where do you grade the IKCA style as for having useful material?
    Would you not agree that it compares very well to JKD or the Jewish styles?

    • No, not at all. IKCA is a joke from what I have seen. I also do believe that your concepts of what a fight is are realistic or what you have accomplished will hold up in the street. The IKCA is just a rehash of failed Kenpo concepts.
      Comparing IKCA to JKD is like comapring a poodle to a Rottweiler. In JKD there are no forms and all is give and take. There are no preset ideas. You learn to move and adjust by reflex and not by preprogrammed garbage that is totally unrealistic.
      As to “Jewish” I am assuming you mean Krav Maga. I have seen some I like and some I think is crap. But there are a lot of frauds out there. I saw some actually in Israel and it looked pretty good. The good KM I saw made Kenpo look like what it is- an outdated inept theory based dance. As to dance look at Twist of Fate= a pure cha cha dance step. Even people that are teaching say it is absurd- look at it on Casa De Kenpo. They say it is about impossible to pull off. SO why do it then?
      Good luck.

  596. Mr. Mills Crenshaw it has been a long time.
    I truly respect you for standing by Ed Parker when these “slime balls”, some posting with fabricated names talked trash about this great icon.
    Are you still around and doing well?
    I live in Albuquerque and earned my Black under the late Bill Packer.
    As you may know, Mr Packer taught Kenpo and trained and developed many outstanding full contact fighters(who said kenpo doesn’t have real fighters)?
    Let your fans like me know you are doing well.
    The defamers and slanderous slime here who have and continue to say nasty things about Parker can go to hell!!!

    • Vicente,
      Save your breath. Libby doesn’t get it and never will. Doesn’t matter what you say, do or show via writing, pictures, fight clips or demoes. He’ll probably say, “I’d just Bob and weave! You never heard of a Bob n weave?!” However, this guy probably couldn’t Bob n weave grandma’s arthritic shoulder throwing a telegraphed punch and even with a graved invitation sent to him letting him know it was coming. Then hell say all your stories is bull ahit and show his scar riddles hands from getting cut “in real fights.” And for some reason everyone is supposed to believe his stories over everyone else’s…. It’s a bunch of non sensical bull shit. You wanna see his variations? Check out Bobbo Morgan on YouTube. That’s all it is: variations. Nothing special. However, he think it’s amazing stuff. His JKD, BJJ talk is stupid. Guys thinks everything on planet earth could do anything in a fight. He thinks he’s going to be fighting trained boxers and BJJ cats in the street like we are in Street Fighter or DragonBallZ (video games.) Reality, if this guy was really in fights like he says and he won, he was fighting a bunch of bums. Guess what. That’s perfectly ok because that’s what your training is supposed to do! When he comes off saying “you couldn’t do that to a boxer or BJJ or Wrestler on the street.” That’s a bunch of stupid horse shit again. He’s never done it and just like a listening to himself. Guy never run up on a bad dude. You just setting yourself for some stupid conversations with that guy.
      I’m IKCA under Greg Payne. IKCA Kenpo works great. And even better with other influences in your arsenal. You train hard no matter what it is that you do, you give yourself a chance.
      If all you did was hit a heavy bag2-3 times a week and no one ever taught you anything, you have a better chance than some that does nothing and doesn’t think about it.
      Obviously IKCA Kenpo has a lot more than that. There’s a lot you can do. Libby has the “curriculum.” But he doesn’t know the secret. I’m so over his stupid talk. I just want to see him put some more crap online. Hoping he does something good. All he knows is techniques. Vicente, if you know Chuck and Vic, you know tecniques don’t really mean anything to them. If you’re stuck on techniques you don’t know Kenpo.

      • I’ll make it simple you video trained cunt! “Grandma” and his arthritic shoulder will be out next year. You and me full contact! No gloves, no cups, and no rules! Put up or shut up you arrogant little shit!
        I had a near fatal accident and was honest about it. And your bullshit “you get hurt Libby because you don’t know how to condition. Yeah, that;s why boxers and NFL players get hurt- they do not know the “Joshua Pestaner buy my bullshit video conditioning system.”
        What’s wrong Joshua? The fact that somebody is exposing your bullshit getting to you? The fact that you are tested by DVDs starting to sink in that you and your system is a fraud?
        Is it getting to you that you cannot post one intelligent response of your own to counter what I say? And you were right about one thing- Lyoto MAchida is damn talented and uses Shotokan in MMA. And it has been called his biggest weakness as they said his boxing is “horrendous.” So as to George St. Pierre who got him ready? 5 years ago it was Freddie Roach- boxing trainer. 4 years ago- Freddie Roach boxing trainer. Now? Freddie Roach boxing trainer. And GSP will let Freddie Roach, boxing trainer, decide if he is ready or not. He is not going to the Japan Karate Federation or Mister Miyagi. He is letting a boxing trainer decide! SO so much for your “boxing vs Karate” argument. Boxing wins 99% of the time.
        And I will match my training and street credibility against you any day of the week. And you are a liar! You were never a bouncer as no bar would hire a runt like you! And yes, my JKD, BJJ, and everything else in my arsenal work as I didn’t get it from a DVD promotion course!
        Now go peddle some DVDs you little shit! See you next year!

        • What’s wrong Libby? You seem upset. Did I expose your fake stories. Honest about a near fatal accident? Is it on video? I don’t believe it. Bull shit…. How bout dem apples? I don’t believe anything you say. Your BJJ, JKD, tons of fights, etc. Where’s the video PROOF? If its not there, it must not exist , right? Go put your night gown on and go to bed.

          • How about I put up the video of my actual surgery which the doctor gave me a copy of? And I will put up a series of photos of me at the hospital with my arm being supported by a nurse. And a picture of my bike before and after the accident!
            What’s wrong runt! Somebody call you on your bullshit and call you out? You not man enough to handle a real fight?
            My only decision will be to knock you out or choke you out!
            See you in a year!

          • Where the video of you falling off? Bull shit. Your fullnof shit. Your a fraud. You and your doctors video surgeries don’t mean shit. Where the video proof of you flying off? Bull shit.

          • I will be posting the photos on YouTube as it is easier! I will put it on Robert Libby Accident. Do not ever call me a liar you little cock sucker! And I did not “fly off.” I center punched a truck that u-turned in front of me!

          • C:\Users\VQ\Downloads\Video\Robert Libby Accident – YouTube.MP4
            This is the photos. Please note the green Kawasaki Ninja I am sitting on! Then notice the same blue helmet next to me while sitting on the bike and at the crash site. You will also see the same black tank bag when I am sitting at my house and at the crash site! You will also see the MRI report and a nurse holding up my arm as my shoulder was totally torn out as indicated by the report!
            Hey Joshua, any other libelous comments you cunt! I will enjoy breaking you!

          • This is your martial excellence Libby? Nice job. You want a round of applause? You got 9 lives? Woooo. Nice. Unless you have actual footage of you flying off the bike and into a truck, you’re full of shit. Next time record if something epic like that happens. Otherwise its just a great BS FLUFFY STORY.
            My wife had the same surgery a few months ago so I’m very familiar with it. So anyways..
            Post some martial arts stuff already. Let’s see you fight Judo, BJJ, Eskrima, JKD, Boxing. Let’s see if you’re any good. If you don’t have anything your a nice bed time story for the kiddies. Stop your whining and pullout your panties from your ass.

          • Just put in Robert Libby Accident and it comes right up! You have really shown to the world what a low life cunt you are Joshua! Just a nothing martial artist and loser! And rather than come up with one rational critique of what I posted, as you are not capable of one, you ran your fat fucking mouth! Your skills are joke! And you are a joke! So go fuck off!
            See you next year!

          • Please go to Robert Libby Accident 2. I have a video of the actual shots inside of my shoulder while it is being repaired! It shows all the tendons being repaired, a screw holding one part together, and blue sutures that hold it together. You better have an apology coming my way or I am going to enjoy kicking your ass next year!
            Gee Joshua, I guess I got the Thai police to lie, just happened to get photos of the exact same bike, helmet, and tank bag- one at my house and then at the accident site! And then I got a major Thai hospital to wheel me around with my clothes off for fun and put me in a ward! And then I got an MRI doctor to fake a report and series for me! Then I got a board certified surgeon to fake an operation for me! And then he made a DVD of my procedure for fun!
            Do you see a few holes in your thinking?
            You did what all insecure cult members do= when hit with facts you ran and hid behind lies and made up stories. And you are not Lyoto Mchida! So do not try to live through these guys! You are a joke!

          • Exactly. Bull shit. Unless you have video proof, it is all a nice story..

            But really, why do you keep avoiding showing your martial arts prowess? You just talk talk talk. And type type type. Please show some concrete evidence that your any good and worth listening and learning from? Or simply exciting in some way. Mr martial arts master. I’ve just seen worn out guy playing with little men doing a bunch of talking. i would just Bob and leave you as you kept talking and trying to bore me to death.

          • How would I have a video? I do not ride with a camcorder on! You do realize that anybody who looks at what I presented will see it as proof! WOW!!! You really are a desperate little fucker! You are a fucking headcase!
            Just sign the waiver for no lawsuits when I come in to pound you you runt! I guess little man complex has really gotten to you, and it shows!

          • Here you go Joshua. An anaysis of how Lyoto Machida got smoked due to dropping his off hand! Exactly what I say in my videos! But I guess like you say I don’t know anything! But the pros seem to agree with me and not you. And Machida beat some great people! If he had practiced boxing and not Karate he would have had a better record! That is why GSP is with Freddie roach- boxing is just a better fighting skill! And a lot of times it worked for Machida as he fought south paw! I will also be explaining that in future videos. And that is because I can explain it where as your mentor Greg Payne cannot even explain a simple bob and weave! Kenpo does this too and calls it “chambering.” You are an idiot!

            It is important to notice that Lyoto fails to keep his right hand up. This is a habit from his competitive karate background, where points are only scored if the non-punching hand is drawn back to the hip in hikite. It is fine against fighters in the opposite stance to Lyoto (who will happily switch to accommodate his gameplan). As you can see, Rashad is in no position to throw a left hook as Lyoto counters him.

            Jon Jones was the first fighter to truly exploit Lyoto’s lack of disciplined boxing technique. Against Shogun, in their second meeting, Machida became overconfident and threw a punch from too close in, allowing Shogun’s instinctive swing to travel over the top in a chance “cross counter”. But this was more Machida’s mistake that Shogun’s effectively setting him up. Jon Jones, however, switched to the same stance as Lyoto whenever possible, and had success landing his rear hook as a result. The finishing strike of the fight (which effectively secured the guillotine for Jones) was an excellent faked kick from Jones, which he turned into a rear hand hook. As Lyoto dived in to counter the kick with his rear hand, his lead hand was low – and Jones, being in the same stance, was able to connect a rear, left hook through the gap.

          • This is from a Karate guy! Notice the “boxers are used to getting hit” part. Also notice ow much praise he has for judo? Gosh, all the things I say. But I don’t know anything!

            Boxing, the best defence in a street fight?

            September 2, 2014 by Dave Friskney Leave a Comment

            Boxers generally do well in street fights, why ? Can a boxer beat a karate man on the street? Why is ant boxing more popular? How does judo rate against boxing? Which fighting style is best for you?

            Not as popular as Asian martial arts?

            In the last twenty or thirty years boxing has taken a back seat as a method of unarmed combat. The public have been hit by a barrage of martial arts films filled with high kicking action. Reality and fantasy merge in the minds of the masses and boxing clubs for many years became a rarity. This trend has started to reverse in recent years.

            Simple things work.

            The great strength of boxing in a street brawl is it’s simplicity. An experienced boxer gets very good at one thing, delivering hard punches. If all your training is aimed at knocking out your opponent with a punch the untrained half drunk opponent on the street probably won’t know what hit him!
            Fancy moves with the feet are fun in a controlled environment but it’s the simple techniques that are easier to pull off when your under pressure.
            Head high kicks leg sweeps arm locks and grappling are great if your an expert in them which can take many many years. A couple of years of getting in the ring and also punching a bag every day can make you an expert in punching in a much shorter time.

            Being hit.

            Boxers get used to being hit. A boxer will happily take a glancing blow in order to set up his better targeted counter. Being hit happens in any fight and if you don’t get hit then most times you were not in a fight you just beat up somebody. Martial arts that don’t allow full contact can miss out on conditioning training and could lack the confidence to brush off many blows.

            Confidence.

            Knowing that you can punch effectively and knowing that you can take a few blows if you have to will give you confidence in your capabilities. Being confident in a heated situation is a weapon in itself and can sow the seeds of doubt in your opponent. Being confident will help you to stay cool and calculating.

            Against Karate

            The big danger for a boxer going up against an opponent well trained in karate is going to be from from kicks and sweeps. Legs are longer and stronger than arms and if your not used to dealing with kicks you could get caught out.
            I would recommend doing some light friendly sparring with a karate man just for the experiance. If you can get inside the kicking distance you will have made any well trained kicks irrelevant.
            On the street if you can close in then the karate man will only get one brief chance to nail you with a kick. If you stay in kicking range and he is good then watch out.
            A leg sweep can be used at a closer distance and you won’t see it coming. A sudden lose of balance can at the least be unsettleing. A well executed sweep can be very effective even against a larger opponent. The good newes if your a boxer is that an effective sweep requires very good timing and considerable skill.

            Against Judo.

            Judo does not teach any punches or kicks, that’s the good news, the only good news. As with boxing against karate it’s all about the distance that you fight at. Once a judo man has got hold of you your probably going to be on your back in seconds. The fun doesn’t stop there because you will probably get your opponents body on top of you a split second later, slamming you further into the pavement.
            Your best and only chance with judo is to nail him before he can get a grip on you.

          • I just finished your most recent childish comment! How would there be a video of me “flying off?” That alone shows how fucking stupid you are! But there are photos of my bike and the truck. I rammed a truck and merely got stopped right there! Fuck you are dumb and desperate! I impacted the truck where the front end and door meet- how would I fly off? I went down after the impact!
            And you will see how good I am when I get to Maryland and I am right in front of you! Then I will watch you piss your gi! And just as Steve Shaffer found out I will show up! You are a cunt on so many levels! Now go peddle some videos!

        • Lyoto’s Karate is what got him where he is. Without that and there probably is no Photo in MMA. But in the sport you have to really sharpen so much and stay ahead. BJJ fighters are not nearly as dominant as they were in the sport. Why? Are they less effective? Absolutely not! But everyone is aware of it now and training different aspects of it. Pure BJJ guys have to mix their training for the cage now. Boxers have to learn the ground and full contact striking with kicks, etc.
          Can a boxer do well in the street? Yes
          Can a BJJ guy do well in the street? Yes
          Can a Karate guy do well? Yes
          Can a TKD guy do well? Yes
          Really anyone who fights back has a fighters chance. Some individuals will be better than others. Everyone is different. But style doesn’t make you or break you. It’s relative to the practitioner and the circumstances that unfold.
          Conor McGregor is a strong karate based fighter and kicking butt now. Is that all he does? hell no! But he’s not a pure boxer and has not tossed out his base. Its what makes him different and dominate for now. Not everyone is McGregor. It’s all relative. Your arguments Libby are old and lame. You don’t know very much about the martial arts world. You live in a bubble (Bubble Morgan).
          If you were a true JKD practitioner and really good, you’d just shut up and know what’s up. Ain’t no damn reason to be hollering.
          I don’t even like blabbering on this thread, but damn Libby, your shit is too much. You’re a horrible representation of JKD and you ain’t that good.” Maybe a green belt.”

          • All wrong. And Conor McGregor is not a TKD guy. He studied it a short time to get some kicks. He is a boxer with BJJ- as per alwys you are full of shit! That lie about McGregor has already been exposed.
            Just start getting ready for next year asshole!

          • All wrong. And Conor McGregor is not a TKD guy. He studied it a short time to get some kicks. He is a boxer with BJJ- as per alwys you are full of shit! That lie about McGregor has already been exposed. And now I believe does muay thai!
            And Lyoto’s karate, always dropping the non-punching hand, is what caused him to lose. He was very talented.
            Just start getting ready for next year asshole!

        • Lyoto’s Karate is what got him where he is. Without that and there probably is no Photo in MMA. But in the sport you have to really sharpen so much and stay ahead. BJJ fighters are not nearly as dominant as they were in the sport. Why? Are they less effective? Absolutely not! But everyone is aware of it now and training different aspects of it. Pure BJJ guys have to mix their training for the cage now. Boxers have to learn the ground and full contact striking with kicks, etc.
          Can a boxer do well in the street? Yes
          Can a BJJ guy do well in the street? Yes
          Can a Karate guy do well? Yes
          Can a TKD guy do well? Yes
          Really anyone who fights back has a fighters chance. Some individuals will be better than others. Everyone is different. But style doesn’t make you or break you. It’s relative to the practitioner and the circumstances that unfold.
          Conor McGregor is a strong karate based fighter and kicking butt now. Is that all he does? hell no! But he’s not a pure boxer and has not tossed out his base. Its what makes him different and dominate for now. Not everyone is McGregor. It’s all relative. Your arguments Libby are old and lame. You don’t know very much about the martial arts world. You live in a bubble (Bubble Morgan).
          If you were a true JKD practitioner and really good, you’d just shut up and know what’s up. Ain’t no damn reason to be hollering, name calling, talking behind dead guy’s backs, and thinking you know the world when you only know 1 block.
          I don’t even like blabbering on this thread. But Libby, you’re too much. Bunch of dumb BS. Your a horrible representation of JKD and not very good. “Maybe a green belt.”

      • One last comment. You stated “if you know Chuck or Vic you know they are not technique based.” Then why is 80% of their system techniques! Gee Joshua, just another one of your inane gaps in logic?
        And yes, bums. Benny and Arnold Urquidez, Leo Wang, Dan Inosanto, Larry Hartsell, Richard Bustillo, Main Street Gym, Los Angeles, trained under Johnny Flores for boxing, the Gracies, Kodokan judo, and was considered good enough to teach at PFS Ridgecrest, a Paul Vunal affiliate for two years and taught JKD through PFS with Mike Patke in Chico, CA for 2 years. At PFS in Chico and Ridgecrest I had tow nicknames- “fingers” and “the mangler.”
        Now I know that’s no match for your video courses! But I feel my training is just a whole hell of a lot better than yours! So put up or shut up! Or go peddle some videos little boy and keep talking out of your ass! Because bullshit is all you know and all you sell!

    • Mills Crenshaw was proven to be a liar. The Tracys have publicly called him a fraud and it is on the Internet. They question his even getting a black belt when he says he did. Bart Vale stated on the Internet that Ed Parker never had a fight in his life and was therefore not fit to teach people how to fight!
      So what’s your point? Before you call people “slime balls” you had better check your facts and your big mouth!

  597. That’s what I have been saying. You take a two guys of equal physical levels and out one in a year of boxing or kick boxing and one in karate the karate guy gets KILLED!!!!! And the two man scenario works the same way. Why would something so ineffective on one person be more effective on two?
    Go to YouTube and put in “man protects girlfriend in New York.” This guy took out 3 guys with just boxing hands. I think his name was Christian Bernard so maybe try that. But you are on the right track!

  598. Where are your videos Joshua? But as you have nothing to show what would be the point? Maybe you could show somebody how to do the “star block!” That would be really enlightening! Or Delayed Sword. That’s an IKCA technique, and it;s worthless! See you next year!

  599. Why there is nobody from JKD in MMA? Paul Vunak looks great! Has he ever fought? Mr. Libby back when MMA started…., why didn’t you fight?

    • SORRY! I thought you were Joshua! I do not have my glasses on! The FUCK OFF was not for you. But it was a career ending injury. But I came back. I was in a cast for about 8 months! Took me months to get function back and I still get sporadic numbness.
      Once again, sorry about the post. But Joshua Pestaner has accused me of being a flat out liar. This from a video trained clown!

    • Vu has had a lot of street fights. I know this sounds cliche but we do a lot of eye slaps, ball slaps, eye gouging, and biting. Not a winner in MMA. But MMA guys are tough as nails! JKD is just not a sport.

  600. When MMA started I was in my 40s I was training for a fight and was run over by a truck while on a motorcycle. It was Halloween of 1996 and I have the proof of that also. I was hit on Lincoln Blvd. in front of Venice Iron Works! I wanted to be the oldest guy to have fought! But I am sure you think that is a lie too! I had a severely shattered ankle. My tibia was broken in 3 places, my fibula was in like 13 pieces, and my bone was coming out of my ankle!
    In the future do not contact me! I either want a full and public apology or I will be seeing you in Maryland! Until that apology FUCK OFF!

  601. Robert,
    My Holiday was ruined by the comments Joshua has made.
    I can’t believe how this guy has attacked you.
    He is a modern day “Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde”.
    To argue and disagree is one thing, but to stoop to this level of “bad mouthing” is the “lowest of the low”.
    If he doesn’t issue the apology and it comes down to having to deal with him, you won’t be going to Maryland alone amigo.
    I’m as serious as a heart attack.
    I will make arrangements to be there and make sure this doesn’t wind up being “more against one”.
    You never know if this guy’s instructor Payne show’s up and decides to get in on things.
    Listen, you shouldn’t fall into this guys “trap” he’s trying to “push your buttons” to the max.
    Anybody with any sense of intelligence would know that you have and are posting factual information.
    I DESPISE “turncoats” and this guy, with his “lol” had no intention on being respectful to you.
    Something tells me, and I hope I’m wrong that Greg Payne has put him up to some of this.
    Payne has to know that his Black Belt’s behavior and lack of respect toward you will point the “spin needle” back to him.
    I believe that he would be present if his student were in a full contact fight.
    If Payne is a close to Joshua as Joshua has said, Payne will be there.
    Will Payne stand if his student was getting bounced around by an “outsider”?
    I doubt it.
    He either tries to stop you or decides to “save face” and “take over”.
    That’s where I come in I’ll handle him or anyone of his “boy’s” if that happens by trying to defuse the situation, if it’s goes bad, well we get to see if I am capable or just another Ashida Kim.
    But, you got to get Joshua to sign a release, IF he accepts.
    If I were in Joshua’s shoes, I would apologize.
    No losing face in that.
    Joshua, I know your reading this.
    You know that what you’ve done is wrong bro.
    I thought things would have been better leading into 2016, but it’s only getting worse.
    You, my friend are now in a “catch 22”.
    You either accept Robert’s offer or apologize.
    If you would have been a little more respectful and chosen a more articulate way to express yourself it would have served you way better.
    Remember, I ain’t here to disrespect you or Greg.
    I’m here to stand by my friend, Robert Libby.
    Here’s hoping that Maryland is not on my travel list anytime soon.

    • Well as per usual thanks for the support! But when I hear shit like “you don;t have a video of you flying through the air” you know the guy is nuts. I certainly felt that showing the photos, medical reports, MRI findings, actual surgery, and being in a hospital stretcher was proof enough. But the “grandma and your arthritic shoulder” shit was way over the top! And why do I have to prove anything to this little shit!
      He acts just like a religious whack job who has found out his whole cult is bullshit!
      So I will get ready and see Maryland. I hope Joshua likes hospital food! But I will want a waiver as he is an obvious punk and nut case. And if Payne comes after me I will knock his ass out!

      • … There’s only 1 person acting whacky here. The one who wants to travel across the world to brawl at 60+ years old(overweight with broken arms, shoulders, hips, knees and back.) You’re the only that needs to sign stuff. You’re one slip away from a hip surgery or displaced vertabraes.
        Knockout? How is that? You got severely messed up shoulders that will never be the same and don’t have a full range of motion or strength. Oh, and you don’t punch to the face in fear of tearing your knuckles, skin and bones.
        If you need this thread to feel young and keep busy, by all means keep it up. Being corgel with others can make your experiences even better here. But being happy with who you were and are now will be even more satisfying in the long run.

        • You are NUTS!!!! SO many of the injuries you stated I do not even have.
          Face it Joshua, you are a nothing martial artist in a nothing system! You’re the fraud classic. Your lie a little boy who watches video games and thinks he’s a warrior!
          Just because you talk about Lyoto Machida does not make you like him. And the things I show I can explain and pull off in the street because they actually work! You claim IKCA is not about techniques yet the bulk of the curriculum is techniques. The center of each page from yellow to black is techniques with the rest as side issues! You are delusional.
          I’ll see you in Maryland next year. You will apologize on camera or I will knock your punk ass out! And your Greg Payne isn’t capable of even slowing me up!

  602. I can guarantee, without a doubt, that I out box Payne.
    I outclass him kickboxing, and I would knock him out with or without protective equipment.
    No exaggeration, no brag, just fact.
    I wouldn’t count out an “old school” real life bad ass like Robert Libby either.
    It’s not good to start a fire, pour gas on it, and allow it to pick up momentum which is what’s happened here.
    There are people in the Martial Arts that have had serious, real street experience.
    Hope that apology is on it’s way.

  603. Gee Joshua, another rambling nonsensical video! Yes, I called people liars as they lied! Mills Crenshaw lied about Ed Parker beating 5 guys with knives and clubs. That gets people hurt as they believe stupid things! The Tracys also knocked Mills Crenshaw. And you might want to look at who started calling who a liar first! Bart Vale also said that Parker could not teach fighting as he NEVER FOUGHT! He also said that Ed watered down the techniques. Bart VAle also showed why Grip of Death does not work so I guess according to you he’s an asshole too! But I guess they are idiots by your standards or lack of standards!
    As you go through the site you will see many people agreeing with me. And you said I spent 6 years. Yes, and equal to anybody else’s 15. I was there Monday to Thursday from 4 pm to 9 pm or 10 pm and 4 pm to 7 pm on Fridays. I also went on Saturdays and trained for 3 to 4 hours. So that’s about 25 hours per week of training! So I knew Kenpo.
    And at the time I was the youngest teacher Kenpo ever had! I was also the only teenager on the inter-school fighting team! I was 15 and everybody else was in their 20s. So I guess they had some respect for my abilities!
    When I taught at a Kenpo school in Chico in the 1980s the head instructor asked the mid level belts if I knew the system and they stated that I knew it better than anybody they had dealt with! So do not imply that I do not know Kenpo Joshua! The problem is that you know damn little about anything in martial arts. You come out of a distance learning video martial arts system. It is technique heavy, antiquated, and has digressed rather than progressed!
    Later on I would do boxing in the mornings and then train with Leo Wang in the Los Angeles in kick boxing so I was cross training. I also got back into judo in Oregon and boxing.
    So you believe your hallucinations Joshua. You are a part of the new breed of fake martial artists that know far less than they think! I have proven myself numerous times and mostly in the defense of others.
    Your moaning video defenses make you look like some cult member that has been wronged! And yes, the thread is supposed to be to exchange ideas, but not lies! And remember the birth of the thread was on Ed Parker’s lack of ethics and deceitful practices! And that is a major part of his legacy!
    But I am still waiting for one video of Ed looking like anything or of why Kenpo techniques work! You see according to you anybody that does not agree with the Kenpo mantra just doesn’t know anything!
    So I will see you next year. And “grandma” will make sure to bring her A game!

  604. If i may add my humble opinion. Joshua I liked you dude but I have to throw my support behind Robert & monfongo. If you look at all the posts on this thread, which span roughly 4yrs you’ll clearly see Robert doesn’t get pissed till someone calls him a liar. I for one respect his motivation to fight even in his obvious elderly & infirm state. Robert don’t even waste your time or money on this guy. Monfongo, your support of Robert is admirable. I find it strange that Mr payne hasn’t weighed in, I mean Josh is representing him & his school here. If i were saying the things he’s saying my old kempo Sifu would’ve kicked my ass rite or wrong. Something ain’t rite here guys.

  605. Agreed Chen Style.
    I’ll repeat, and I may be wrong but I believe Payne is behind some of this.
    Joshua seems nervous in the video, as well he shoukd be.
    Again, Robert called it right.
    Joshua is rambling.
    He could have made it short, to the point, and ended with a sincere apology.
    While Joshua looks to be a devoted Martial Artist, he’s “bitten off more than he can chew” here.
    I don’t think he has fully realized the consequences of his actions.
    There is no embarrassment in apologizing.
    There is in getting “owned” by someone older and with the skills and expertise to really inflict a beating.
    I’m on the fence as to weather Robert should let this slide.
    If I were in his shoes I might not.
    But, ultimately it comes down to Joshua “maning up”.
    If it comes down to a Maryland visit, I’ll be there to make sure all’s fair.
    If Payne is present and starts anything, well Mr. Psyne will be feeling some compliments of Monfongo.
    Happy New Year!

  606. Peter Lucas aka Iam Kumara

    A wise Sage has said that everything is political. Everything, of course includes the martial arts. Most of us have heard, my daddy can beat up your daddy, my instructor can beat up your instructor, my martial art is real, and better than yours, Yuk!
    Ed Parker, at one time, had the largest martial arts tournament in the United States having at one time (when I was involved) 3,000 participants. I am sure this makes jealous people cry on the inside and whine on the outside. Ed Parker offered any martial artist to come to his tournaments and participate. To perform demonstrations, compete in forms (katas), and tournament point-style sport fighting. I mention this because he believed that the martial arts had room for everyone, and for the mature, without criticism.
    I have seen different martial arts practitioners try their problem solving methods in different circumstances, both civilian and military. These main stream martial arts styles cannot adapt to all violent situations, nor were they actually designed to. There are some, who believe they are the purest, that if the martial art was not created in the Shaolin Temple, then it is not a real martial art.
    As for those who took lessons and were exposed to the Parker System, who looked and did not see, I’m not surprised. College students take courses, and at the end, do not understand what they learned, and certainly cannot apply the material. There is a martial arts system for every personality, every temperament. Kenpo is not for everyone, nor is a passive system like Judo. But it is a quality martial art system offered to all American men, women and children. The Parker Schools are not elite schools where an individual must take an agility test to qualify to be a student.
    Addressing the slander that Ed Parker was a Brown Belt– William Chow had a tradition, which Ed Parker carried on with his students. That tradition was that before, or shortly after earning one’s Black Belt, the new Black Belt had to turn in a ‘Black Belt Thesis’. Ed Parker’s Black Belt Thesis was the design and creation of the ‘Parker Fighting Knife’. The Parker Fighting Knives were made by the Master Knife Maker, Gil Hibben. Gil Hibben is also a Parker Black Belt. When I used to come to the studio early, I would see Ed Parker practicing with his double blades, practicing the Knife Set, and the Double Blade Swirl, that we also see in Escrima. I own two of Gil Hibben’s knives myself.
    Someone wrote that either the Ed Parker Kenpo Karate System or the Kenpo Systems in general are/is a dishonorable martial arts system. I’ve never heard of the term honorable or dishonorable applied to a martial arts system, sport or a particular activity. So unless specifically defined, I’m not sure what this means. If it means that an Ed Parker Black Belt can kill his or her attacker if necessary, rather than just throw them on the ground, then under this parameter or perspective, a tender heart might call this dishonorable.
    We’ve all heard that guns and alcohol do not mix, like alcohol and drunk driving. Well low IQ’s (including emotional IQ) and the martial arts does not mix well either. Those who have chosen the martial arts as their path towards human and spiritual development, which is open to all humans in various paths, must use this path to their full extent. Those who do, or have not, and are stuck somewhere on this path, should seek out others who they have not yet found, to help them develop character and humility. Like James Mitosi, I believe that Kenpo is a religious path, a path with a great opportunity for self transformation. Traditional religions on the Earth, do not understand the Zen philosophy or its applications in the martial arts, Nor Chi, energy transfer, synchronization, anchoring, projecting mass through time and space, or slow motion movement. We now move into the realm of Metaphysics. For example, there is an energy field covering the Earth in different configurations. How do you use this energy field to your advantage?
    For those who like controversy and a bar fight–go into a bar, and start taking about who you believe is the all time Boxing Heavy Weight Champion of the World. Go into a biker bar, made up of Vietnam Veterans, and start talking sh_t about what service is better than the others– which military service is the best. This website is essentially doing the same thing—everyone believes their martial arts system is the best system and people are willing to fight to defend their belief.
    The physicality (physical movements, methods, etc.) is only one part of the martial arts in problem solving against violent attackers. And, the martial arts as a vehicle is just the beginning to one’s growth and adventure.
    To degrade another man’s martial art, is reflected in the ‘Looking Glass Self.’ Look deep into the mirror, and see one’s true inner self…

    • Where do you come up with this garbage? Parker may have written an article about Hibben’s knives but he did not have to write a thesis. Thesis writing came later and never by Parker. I was to receive a 3rd. degree from Ed but was not going to have to write a thesis. And I knew like 3 to 4 forms.
      You say you trained privately under Tom Garraga/Garriga- you didn’t even know the guy;s name, but claim he trained you privately! You made claims about the Santa Monica school that were complete fallacies. So keep the metaphysical horseshit to yourself. I would not believe a word you said!
      The Parker fighting knife was a very cool blade! And Gil Hibben did a demo with it at the Internationals where at the end they held up a large sheet of plywood and he threw it into the wood with a man’s shape on it! But at that time there were no thesis requirements! In the 1960’s, I believe 1969, Scott Loring had come back from the National Guard summer program. He was promoted to 3rd. that night and I believe Norm Pattiz got a second. Scott knew like 3 forms and Norm knew 3 to 4. There was no thesis requirement at Santa Monica! We fought for the most part! Please save the stories for those who are dumb enough to believe them!

  607. Robert,
    Going back on earlier post I just noticed that we share the same zodiac sign.
    My BD is 2/10.
    Now I know why.
    Take care brother.

  608. It’s in the stars mon frer!

  609. 😀
    Aquarians stick together.
    And, most, if not all excell at sports, writing, acting, you name it.
    Plus, they are good people.
    Humanitarians if you will.
    I just got back from taking a bunch of homeless veterans that live by the tracks some breakfast from Micky D’S.
    Hopefully what’s in the stars for 2016 is all good.

  610. This is for Joshua. I haven’t had Internet except for the data on my fone so I generally don’t watch videos as a result. Iv had the opportunity to go back & look at all the videos you’ve posted. Honestly I thought mr libby was a bit harsh on you but after seeing the vids, I see where he’s coming from. As monfongo has said Robert doesn’t mince words which can rub people up the wrong but to quote monfongo, you could have said things a lot better than you have. I’ll give you credit that you’re obviously an articulate, intelligent fellow & you move pretty well & have a lot of potential however you shouldn’t get upset over roberts comments. This is my opinion after seeing you & your school in action, your nothing special. I always wondered how my little australian kempo school stacked up against the Americans & if your school is anything to go by then we did pretty well. I know th vids are just a snapshot & i was kept pretty humble cos no matter how good you are, there’s always someone better. You look like a brown belt to me. One thing I’d like to address about kempo is a term that got thrown around called overskill not overkill. A metaphor I like to use is music scales. I’m a guitarist & i grew up in the age of the 80’s flashy guitar. As you learn to navigate the fretboard with scales so does kempo teach you to throw many techniques in rapid succession. However by learning to string a bunch of notes together & remember there are only twelve notes, a trap that guitarists fall into is learning fast scales & techniques with mistakes in them. Kempoists do the same thing. Tai chi is so underestimated cos they move slow but that is merely a training method to analyze things in minute detail & train small & large group muscles. In Chen style that’s only the beginning, later you learn to move quick & efficiently. Another good point that Robert brought up is boxers have an advantage in the street cos they’r used to being hit. I actually don’t like boxing & always saw it as a thug game to kempos gentleman’s art but on this point I agree. It’s a big reason why my buddies & i started our fight club. Unlike the movie we didn’t send each other to hospital but we hit each other in the head hard enough to test th shock value cos when hit in the head it’s a shock. Another thing my kempo school had access to was a full body suit & helmet that was loaned to us by a police acquaintance which we would beat the crap out of each other like a latino gang initiation. Bottom line in the street your gona get hit & you better know how handle that or curl up in a ball hope for the best. Joshua I’m not trying to shit on you, I do respect you but if you can’t handle Libby’s criticism, exit the forum & have a good life.

    • Chen Style,
      OK, that is some criticism and explanation that there can be conversation about as well as disagreement without offense.

      Yes, the clips are just very small snap shots and not near the capabilities we have. It is what it is. I’m not saying I’m the greatest or extremely special. But still special in my abilities I do believe I am. I know my limitations and weaknesses and I work on them. I have no shame in saying that. As good martial artists that is our consistent aim for perfection, or at least should be.

      If you were able to see the full contact sparring session(no pads) you can see I can take and give strikes. Being hit is not a worry. We train a lot of that. Body toughening is consistent in our training in what I teach. I was taught with little use of padding and don’t like the use of it much. Why is that?

      With pads you can lose sight of what bone on flesh or bone on bone contact feels like. Gloves and pads allow you to make more mistakes without injury. If you throw incorrectly without pads, well, you know pretty close to immediately. I am not fond of the helmet thing. There was a JKD/Wing Chun program in my school and they used the helmets. Yes, you get to hit the head. But with pads? Do you really know what it is like to hit a head bare knuckles then? Or when you hit someone with tons of padding like they are training attack dogs, do you know how to injure someone so much more? I personally don’t think so. And the ones I saw using them probably were not good representations either. But I really haven’t seen any good representations with its use.

      I have to ask, when you see me doing my thing, do you think I’m doing “techniques?” I’m very anti technique which is why I ask. If you got some example footage of your practice or practice of others you think are very good examples, please let me know or show it. Not so I discriminate it, but so I can appreciate it. Honestly, I love stealing stuff all the time.

      Tomorrow is Saturday and I have an early morning training with some of my training partners at my house. Stretch, workout, pad work, grappling, and even Master Form, etc. I’m always looking for something to work on.

      You were a little broad in your examination of my clips. What do you think I could work on specifically? Which aspects could have been better? Ex. Punch, kicks, combinations, location of targets, take downs, choice of takedowns, etc. What would you probably have done?

      When it comes to Libby, his reviews are not really reviews but this silly this art is crap and this is better. He basically says stop doing all that you know nothing and you must do what I recommend…what?! And who are you? Then I see his stuff and none of it is exceptional in my eyes and from what I’ve worked with in my years. He has his own variations. And those make you better? What am I missing here? My life stories are lies and his are fact? What?! So my tolerance for this person has dwindled down the drain. I was watching a JKD/Danny Inosanto clip(s) this afternoon that had me really shaking my head. Libby doesn’t understand the underlying principles and beliefs of the founders/creators. He is the embodiment of the traditionalist he speaks out against. He only excepts certain things that work for him. That’s not the spirit of JKD.

      So anyways, hopento see your feedback and have some specific things to work on as well as discuss.

      Osu.

  611. Faleak Fuburubi

    2016 the happy year my brother of kenpo.
    Joeshau, I just consume a barbecue of crow,lentil,and sweatest potatoes cooked by my eldest wife.
    May you be privileged to stop by for some tasty left overs my hurmanis of latin style as they say in yur talk, pis co sow?
    My feet are hurting and reek of secotis my friend.
    Have read of your current argument did you say perdon to tribe elder bob libbid?
    I await this most anticipated word of belovef admire to bobert for yoi have say bad things my brother.
    Derkorlis vastobaqua(Happy Happy news years in my tongue).

  612. Thanks for your reply Joshua. Yeah maybe I haven’t seen all you can do & that’s fair. Everything you guys are doing is fairly indicative of kenpo. I personally wouldn’t dream of telling you what you should be doing cos your already doing it. I just meant that Mr Libby has over 40 years of experience & not to dismiss that. Your contribution to this forum is welcome, I was just disappointed that you reverted to some childish reactions to Libby’s criticisms. You even earned the respect of monfongo whom I hold in high regard only to lose it. I’m trying to see your side of things & i know Robert is a cantankerous old bastard but dude your opinions & observations are beta than a lot of kempoists who contribute here. I said previously your on a good path please stay on it.

  613. Hey Joshua just wanted to add about your pads point that the full body suit was just to experience a beating without injury. I should clarify that was something we did at class, at my fight club there was no pads, only bare hands. I mentioned earlier that this was before smartphones & we didn’t hav video cameras. I wish I had footage to put up, I only hope you can trust my words as i don’t want to bullshit anyone here. I just want to contribute to the conversation.

  614. Hey Chen, that’s VERY cantankerous old bastard! Get it right!
    Happy New Year!

  615. Chen Style,
    Your input adds a fresh and most important, honest perspective to the discussion and arguments.
    In fact, I believe you have helped to defuse things on several occasions.
    Thank you for your respect you have mine as well.
    Maybe you are the person best equipped to convince Joshua that a sincere apology is absolutely necessary for all to have a productive 2016.
    Robert is on point his vast decades worth of experience should not be discounted.
    Joshua definitely has skills, talent, and potential.
    His loyalty to IKCA and Payne is admirable.
    As for the Maryland issue.
    It’s a no win situation for Joshua and Payne.
    I don’t care that Robert is a certain age or has had surgeries, etc.
    On top of all his experience he is a big dude and has the mental and intestinal fortitude to deal with things in Maryland.
    As you may or may not know, this is how “bad mouthing” was dealt with back in the day.
    You showed up at someone’s dojo and proceed to beat the crap out of the “trash talker” and whoever else “wanted some”.
    I may have said some harsh things and offended some, but I told the truth.
    It all started with the Milo Savage vs. Gene La Bell fight and what lead to it.
    Mills Crenshaw couldn’t accept the fact that I posted information that came directly to my ears from Milo’s mouth.
    The man trained min boxing for several years and we were pretty close.
    Milo was an honest and honorable man.
    He felt that he had been “set up”.
    He also told me that initially, Parker was to have been his opponent.
    According to Milo there was a lot of indirect intimidation leading up to the fight with Gene.
    You know “guys in suits.
    And Milo didn’t want to wear a go top, but they made him.
    Think the outcome of that fight would have been different if Gene had to gi to grab onto and Milo could have thrown more punches?
    I, nor Robert is here to start trouble.
    Just here to state the facts and truth.
    I believe all of his experiences happened and so should everyone else.
    BTW, whatever happened to Stan Longinitis?

  616. Chen Style,
    A little disappointed you didn’t have more feedback for me. If I’m a brown belt, what is a black belt supposed to do better? I don’t post up to glorify myself. I posted to get feedback and have something everyone could breakdown and discuss their own interpretations and variations. That includes Libby’s. He wants to add what he’d do; great. Show some subtleties of the sciences that are often overlooked; great. BUT, Libby does not seem to know how to play this game. He enjoys explaining at the expense of others and saying everything is garbage. You’re not going to get good reactions out of that. It’s no different for any other activity or academic course. Libby has not been the ONLY old timer on here. But this Libby is supposed to be held up on a pedestal?… For what? Why? Libby has been in the arts you say for over 40 years. Sifu Payne has been in the arts for over 40 also. So what? And Libby is way superior? How do you figure that out?
    My Kenpo knowledge “beta”? What does that even mean? I have a lot of respect for my knowledge and practice in Kenpo from high ranking and/or old timers in Kenpo and other arts. Does that make me superior? By no means does it. I have a lot I want to learn, work on and get better at.
    But let’s talk beta. I have been training consistently in Kenpo for 10 years. Libby was in for 6 years practicing 30 YEARS AGO! Libby or someone else is probably going to say, “no those dates are not correct!” … Who cares? It was a long time ago, period. So who’s more “beta” if were talking that time is indicative of Kenpo knowledge and mastery?
    This is not just for Libby, but for anyone: if you did an art 10+ years ago and haven’t done it since, you’re not whatever rank you were. You’re a white belt again. Anyone who’s a teacher in here has had numerous of students come and say, “oh yah, I was a black belt when I was a kid!”, or “I was this rank 15 years ago under(whoever).” We all roll our eyes in our heads thinking, well you’re not anymore, let’s see what you got.
    That’s why Libby’s “expertise” in Kenpo is limited. He just needs to talk JKD,BJJ, boxing or whatever else HE STILL DOES. That can and would be very much appreciated.

    And as far as what you did in your Kenpo training and fight club, its all good. It doesn’t really matter if you have footage. It’d be nice because then we could really see and be like damn, that was nice! Or, it looked better in our head. If you can describe what would be some good applications or record some new stuff, that’d be awesome. That’s adding to the think tank and would be a lot of fun.
    There is no productivity on this forum because either there are no original ideas, stupid demeaning talk consistently being thrown around and/or people just worried to post and those who can’t for various reasons.
    Chen Style, what’s a good topic or defense you’d like to show or describe (not Kenpo)? What YOU DO. If a Kenpo guy wants to chime in; great. Let’s see it fly and the convo keeps going to even those from different arts.

  617. I see that Sensei Joshua is keeping me out of these discussions.
    Either out of fear or disrespect.
    That’s OK this is my LAST post to YOU JOSHUA.
    You and I don’t see “eye to eye” and quite honestly with your bickering toward Robert and the constant BS I am still getting bad vives from you.
    I don’t particularly like you and it has more do to with your LOL crap, than your static with Robert.
    I am not that impressed with Sifu Payne either.
    I’ve seen his work on YOUTUBE and at best, it’s just “OK”.
    Coincidentally, why hasn’t Mr. Payne joined in and at least verbalized his support for you?
    After all, your here going to bat for him, right?
    As a matter of fact, why hasn’t anyone from the IKCA(Sullivan or Le Roux)shown a little support?
    So Sifu Payne fought Little KA, good for him!
    The list of “names” from that era that I sparred and beat, very soundly in fact would fill several pages.
    Not to mention those that I boxed with that had World class Karate and Martial Arts skills, some were in the PKA and they had trouble lasting one round in the gym.
    I REFUSE to “name drop” out of respect for some who have been classified as “legends”.
    Anyway, you adressed Chen in your last post, but no mention of a sincere apology toward Robert.
    Bro, you are either stubborn or thick headed.
    I don’t think you believe what looms on the horizon.
    If Shihan Libby winds up in MD and I show up, ANYBODY from Puma/IKCA steps out of line or tries to get in on your deal with him will be mixing it up with me.
    That’s it.
    Have a nice life and as Robert has said, “go make some DVD sales”.

  618. Monfongo, just make a clip or something and post or describe some kind of defense or attack you like. You have had some interesting things to post as far as east coast martial arts, but you haven’t done anything to show what you’re into or practice. If you like, post something. This is a free post so go right ahead. It would be fun.
    Sifu Payne doesn’t bother with this because he has better things to do. Why do I need his support? Who’s supporting you? Why does that matter? Focus on some things that matter and as a community we can play with. I only stay on this post because I hope so much people actually show some stuff and collaborate! But this is really been a waste of time! I feel guilty wasting my time on you guys. I should be doing more productive things than talking to you. It would be so much more worth it if there was coherent collaboration going on. I actually think you all may have great concepts to share. Stop bickering and add some good in this dying stupid thread. Seriously.
    There are many legends of NYC. Sifu Payne went through many as well. He doesn’t have to gloat about it, and doesn’t. Why do you now? Most of the greats that have don’t have to. It happened and is a memory now. They don’t have to pick fights and definitely don’t need to play tag along. What are you doing?
    Anyways, the invitation is to all. If you are curious to see what others would do or think, post some stuff up and let’s collaborate. If there’s no interest in a week, I’ll step out. I’m getting really tired of wasting time on this.

  619. Hi Robert. Happy new to you. Glad to see you took my “cantankerous old bastard” moniker with good humor.

  620. Monfongo, you made my day. Thanks for your support. As I said I just want to contribute to a meaningful conversation. I love martial arts in all its forms & 90% of martial artist iv talked to or exchanged ideas with with have been some of the best people iv met. I actually really like Joshua & had hoped things mite cool down with you guys. I wish I had the power to convince him to apologise but he obviously has an axe to grind. Anyone can see previous posts where Robert & I originally had some heated words but we resolved things without pistols at dawn (lol).

  621. Joshua, sorry you were disappointed in my feedback. I thought I made it clear that I agreed with Robert Libby’s analysis of your work. Anything I add would be repetitive & i dont want to piss you off further plus as a former kempo practitioner I was only adding my humble opinion which you can take or leave. My opinion of you is just that, my opinion. I’m trying to be humble cos I see that you are trying better yourself & i respect that. Dude I don’t want tell you what you should be doing better, who the fuck am I to say that? Your a black belt you can tell me to fuck off if you if want & be well within your rights. I’m just a nobody from brisbane, australia but monfongo respects me & my opinion. This is just a forum & as you say you have better things to do so if you if don’t like criticism, be on your way dude. As to what I would do in situations it really depends on the scenario but I will say kempo set me up for what I would do ie elbows, eye gouges, spitting in eyes, anything that would give me the upper hand. I practice Chen style tai chi Chuan & it is a life long path. Definitely not a street fighting art but a path of health & longevity nonetheless. If you genuinely want to learn more about it, look up grandmaster Chen Zheng Lei & you’ll see what I’m about. Peace to you Sifu Joshua & i hope we can continue civilized discourse.

  622. Chen Style,
    Kudos brother!
    Maybe you can be the lone person here to get through to you know who and convince him that he will be better served and gain much respect from many by stepping up and issuing Robert that apology.
    See, he did a video and side stepped the issue.
    Then he posts but fails to come through.
    You seem to have a way with words that brings out the positive in all the static here, as well as bringing us together to a degree.
    To me that means you are SOMEBODY my brother.
    Thanks for trying to keep things civilized here.
    Never sell yourself short.
    You have more to offer that some of the “experts” on this forum and that includes me.

  623. Faleak Fuburubi

    Joeshau,
    Why you not have kindly my invite to bbq beast you accept?
    Me you anseer please as my wife klamouda needs to learn you when come.

  624. I would like to post one correction. I was always told that Ed Parker did his US Coast Guard time in California. Apparently he did it in Hawaii. So that would allow for more time with Chow if Ed Parker was on the same island. I do not believe that the USCG goes out on the long deployments for say 5 to 6 months like the US Navy, but it would still have to cut into his time with Chow as they do go out for long periods of time like 12 to 18 hour days and sometimes for a week or so (I had friends in the Coast Guard so they told me the schedules). So Parker maybe had 3 or so years with Chow. How does he rate a 10th degree? How does he even rate a black? And then he goes to Brigham Young and starts a school! SO he would not be getting further training from Chow. That still does not add up.
    Please correct me if I am wrong. But math is math!

  625. Monfongo. Thanks for considering me a fellow brother that means a hell of a lot. Joshua, what do say eh should you apologise to robert? Your opinions regarding his analysis aside, don’t you think your exchange over his accident & ensuing war of words was wrong? My opinion, I think it was extremely out character for you & how you present yourself both in your vids & words. You come across to me at least as very intelligent & articulate with a sharp mind & an enthusiasm for martial art debate. If you apologise I’m sure Robert would take responsibility for his reaction & you would only gain more respect. If however as you say you have better things to do then good luck to you & adiós.

  626. Libby, you have just a few more days to post a video(s) before I leave this thing for good. It’s not fun for me to waste my time like this.

    My “footage” talk was just an imitation of you. I really could care less. Its obvious you dont like someone else doing what you do to others do to you. When I first came on you begged for footage and calling me liar and this and that. So I posted. You think there’s some big fan club on this thread. There’s not. You think by you constantly bashing others on this dinky thread is getting you more “likes”. Now, that is desperate.

    Yes, IKCA has 55 techniques. What’s your point? Some JJ Systems have hundreds. So what? JKD you say does not use techniques. Cool. So what? That system uses drills. Great. So does IKCA and other systems. It’s up to the practitioner to learn how to make it work. It takes work.

    You want to discuss IKCA Kenpo? First off, you don’t know/train in this form of Kenpo(IKCA). If you are going off your previous experiences, you will have a very difficult time.

    How about this: Perform all of Master Form. It’s all the same right? You already did tons of forms. That should be easy right? I’ll give you a month. Sound good?

    Learning a few techniques from the system is absolutely dumb. It’s like eating a couple crumbs and saying you ate the cake. Really? No you didn’t.

    Learn the system and it’s techniques then perform it (Master Form). Disect it all you want. You have all the right then. I do all the time. Have fun.

    And please don’t say you won’t waste your time learning it because it doesn’t work or something along those lines. That’s just a copout. Leave IKCA out if you don’t take the time to really understand it. I don’t make comments or judge other systems that I don’t know intimately. It just wouldn’t be right because I don’t really KNOW the art and practice it.

    So learn it. Apply what you know and like and add to it. You probably will surprise yourself. And of course: have fun.

  627. Chen,
    See Joshua makes no effort, zulch to send Robert a simple apology.
    Instead of giving Robert a month to learn the master form, why doesn’t he take a minute to post a simple apology?
    Guess his instructor didn’t teach him and you can’t learn to be humble from DVD training :-!

  628. And this “dinky” thread gave him free PR and helped to promote IKCA DVDS along with hyping
    Asatida Greg Payne originally from the badlands of NYC to the cosmopolitan state of Maryland.

  629. Goodbye from “grandma.” I need to put on my nightgown and take a nap now!
    Joshua, you are a classless little punk and fake martial artist! Glad you are signing off! Your MA is a waste of perfectly good oxygen!

  630. Yeah it was nice while it lasted. Joshua join snibbs, mills Crenshaw & steve shaffer. All guys who couldn’t handle the heat. It’s only a forum, I don’t understand why all the fuss? I went back through to some earlier posts in 2015 & there’s an exchange there where an IKca guy named Felipe was able to interact with Robert without a major falling out. Sometimes we hav to agree to disagree. Just cos we don’t see eye to eye doesn’t make any opinion less valid, just different. I think mma is a perfect example of how martial arts can grow & evolve plus it’s a perfect platform for everyone to display/ prove skills. Monfongo I want to again thank you for the respect you’ve shown me.

  631. YOU have no intention of making an apology.
    To think that I cut you some “slack” back when you were on here boasting that I would have to go through you to deal with Payne because as you so openly bragged, “I’m his henchmen”.
    You, IKCA DVD BLACK BELT are a “turncoat” and “jerk off”.
    For all your childish “LOLS” and constant MASTER FORM plugging you’ve offered little here.
    As much as I dislike you, I have to admit that you have some talent and potential, however not once once of your OVERALL skill, nor that of Payne’s compares to those here who have put in years, DECADES of hard, intense training, sweat, blood, and sacrifice.
    I’ve met many like you in my travels buddy.
    Young “bucks” who have a silent, yet cocky arrogance.
    That, may look at the Martial Arts “elders” and think, “he ain’t shit”, “he’s old”.
    Unlike your lazy instructor at PUMA, there are some of us who are “aging” warriors and still very competent with enough “fire power” and skills to do serious damage to younger “trash talkers”.
    You know what pisses me off?
    The same scenario with Robert could have happened with me.
    And, if I were put in that position, and demanded an apology, I would expect it.
    Not some video of you walking around, looking scrubby, half asleep, and after “rambling” saying, “OK I’m sorry, NOT REALLY”.
    What the hell was that about?
    Your better off retiring from your DVD practice and sales, and concentrating on your education, getting your degree, and getting a job.
    If you think that you “got the goods”, go FIGHT an amateur boxing, kickboxing, or MMA match.
    Test your “expert” skills.
    There are plenty of promotions looking for 3 round preliminary fights to fill up the card.
    Best of all, you don’t need a lot of extra time to train for 3 rounds.
    Show US what you got!
    You “talked the talk”, NOW “walk the walk”.
    Adios!!!

  632. To clarify, I’m addressing Paynes/IKCA “mouthpiece” on the forum.
    Chen Style,
    your most welcome.
    It is refreshing to read that you realized that “you know who” is a “bad apple”.
    Correct me if I imagined this, but does he or does he not have a “sneaky” way about him?
    Have u seen his teacher on YouTube?
    What do you think of his techniques?
    It’s a crying shame things have gotten so out of hand.
    Anyway, between U, me, and Robert we can discuss and exchange ideas and training tips.
    All the best my friend.

    • You guys love talking.
      Monfongo are you not living in Delaware? The mean streets of Delaware….

      We live and work in the DC Metro area which is considered by many to be the capital of the world. SE DC has a very high volume of crime and homicide rate. PG county is infested with gang activity. There are so many incentives thrown out in hopes of getting people to become police officers there…. Most officers want nothing to do with that area. What can I say about Baltimore… Drug infested, gang infested, struggling city. Maryland has a bad common nickname: Murderland.

      So what about Delaware? Oh they have a peninsula: Delmarva. That’s nice.

      Don’t quite know why you’re upset. You haven’t actually ever trained with Libby, right? But I guess having the same sign makes the bond strong and meaningful…. Cool.

      Not really sure how I’ve been disrespectful to anyone. Libby just got return fire from him being an ass. But he’s old and a “very cantankerous bastard.” Why is he the only one that can be cantankerous? It’s a forum of debate is it not?

      Yes, I am skilled and have what it takes to protect myself because I meticulously train consistently. What does that have to do with competition? You want more footage to see yet you can’t display anything? I have a great life, wife and family. I don’t have a need to go in the ring. I have gone to enough fights to see and know there are many I could do well against. You got a lot of fools jumping into these things that have no right being there. Its horrible to watch these guys get destroyed by people who train for that sport day and night. I don’t care to fight in the sport. You typing you did great doesn’t pay the bills or fix any damages occured before or after. I compete and train with others often but not on the stage. I don’t have to feed my ego to know my worth. If you like that, keep doing it. I don’t care.

      Chen, I was going to leave it alone. I didn’t mind your comments on my stuff. So I asked you to expand what you were saying so your criticism could be more constructive. What was your response? Basically you were not worthy to say what was wrong with what I did or could work on and you were just agreeing with what Libby said. I was shaking my head with that (WTF?). You say this and that and then you aren’t capable of saying more. You threw yourself out of being a reliable source to get advice from. I asked if you could present some kind of scenario or concept you liked and could create some material for us to take in, compliment, add to or change up. Your response is you dont have anything, but would spit claw or whatever you could. Okkkkkk, I think my grandmother could give me something better than that. But whatever, it doesn’t really matter. Do your thing, I’m not hating…. Also, you can do more than co-sign what other people say or kissing up. This is just an online forum.

      Libby….. Don’t even know what your feelings are hurt over. Doesn’t really matter. It’s really not a big deal whatever it is. You got bigger things to worry about like your arm and family. Get back to what matters. You could still learn IKCA Kenpo and its Master Form. That was not a disrespectful thing to say. Just gives you better insight to it. If you came out just talking a couple techniques that doesn’t mean anything. Again a couple crumbs doesn’t mean you ate the cake. Or eating the dessert doesn’t mean you know what was for dinner. Hope the rhetoric isn’t too complicated. I’m trying to simplify it.

      If you guys want to trade tips and secrets between the 3 of you: great. But you might be waiting awhile as Libby seems to be the only one doing anything between the 3 of you.

      Have fun playing. Later.

  633. Just more inane rambling and not one speck of real analysis. I have more videos coming and a breakdown of why IKCA is just old school Kenpo in a new wrapper, but weaker as it is not hands on!

  634. Actually IKCA Kenpo is Old School American Kenpo No New Wrapper. It doesn’t get much older for American Kenpo. And yes, show how it’s not hands on. You have been saying this for weeks. Just post already if you have some stuff to show. I promise to reply in video form especially if your topic is IKCA Kenpo. This will be a lot of fun for me. But please don’t be shy to do your stuff as well. Post already. Let’s see what you can do and know and more importantly understand as well as I. This is only a healthy exercise and maximizing the productiveness of a forum like this.

  635. Joshua,
    Let me address your recent post.
    While I may NOW reside in Delaware, I have lived and worked in places like Little Haiti and Liberty City in Miami, Spanish Harlem back in the 70’s when it was “infested” with drugs and brutal gang violence an area at that time controlled by the Latin Kings.
    I also spent a little time in East LA.
    I’ve EXPERIENCED the worse of the worse cities.
    Oh, I also spent time in your neck of the woods Baltimore.
    Helped guys like Leroy Taylor and Eddie Butcher get sharp(sparring) for their fights, ever hear of them?
    Ask Payne if he has.
    So, I had to “lodge” in your area and I know, first hand how bad it was.
    I don’t need to, and won’t put anything on video.
    If anyone wants to meet me or see me workout, let me know and I’ll be more than happy to tell you where I will be training and you can fly out.
    Lunch will be on me.
    Back when Mills Crenshaw was BSING about Eddie I noticed that the the kenpo “clan” was starting to blind side the man with repetitive nonsense challenging his facts and credibility.
    Simple….I chose to stand up for him.
    This prick Crenshaw tried to spin his “fairy tale” on one of the best middleweight boxers of his time Milo Savage.
    A humble man who had ultimate respect for Martial Arts.
    Parker “punks out” and goes crying to Judoka Gene.
    As far as I’m concerned the promoters set up a middle aged contender by substituting a younger guy in Gene, and a top notch Judoka no less.
    Parker pulling out caused a once great boxer to lose in humiliating fashion.
    This would not have happened if the opponent was Parker or any other stand up Martial Artist with a name from that era.
    My question to you Joshua.
    Robert Libby asked for an apology, is he going to get it?
    Why are you dead set against it?
    If you can elaborate maybe that issue can be laid to rest.

  636. This Kenpo bashing is lame.
    I earned a brown in American Kenpo and when I relocated instead of joining a Taekwon Do school bought the IKCA Home Study DVD course.
    It served me just fine!
    Years later it is still the best DVD study course in existence.
    Many have tried to duplicate the method, but none have come close.
    The way Chuck and Vic teach it is flawless.
    And, it is pretty dam effective IF YOU PRACTICE IT!
    It’s self-defense covers all the bases and they were the first to sanction dummy training.
    When you test and pass, you’ve earned your belt.
    The IKCA is not a “diploma factory” and Masters Leroux and Sullivan do not hand out rank for money.
    The style be it live instruction or by DVD is only as good as the person practicing.
    You guys bashing Kenpo, especially the IKCA system have a lot of gull to disrespect it’s true, legitimate, and very qualified founders.
    Not all Kenpo is a waste.
    Do what the gentleman has asked.
    Get the tapes, view, practice, observe, and perfect the material all the way to black.
    You, as I was, will be truly amazed at IKCA Kenpo.

  637. Kenpo is Kenpo and it does not work. The blocking is absurd, many of the strikes are ineffective, and you cannot learn MA by distance learning. I know people who think Master Wong and Master Po are legitimate and swear by them and they are buffoons. You cannot learn MA by yourself.
    Many consider Tom Brady as the greatest quarterback of all time- he has a quarterback coach. George St. Pierre has a trainer. All great athletes are supervised and coached; they do not watch videos and work alone. The entire concept is absurd and has no merit. And I am so tired of hte “Kenpo worked for me” bullshit. IF it is so effective why does nobody have one video of it working. And beating up a stationary person is not MA.
    There are good videos out there that can be used as a supplement with a qualified partner- Paul Vunak, Dan Inosanto, Ron Balicki, Tom Cruse, the Gracies, Gene Lebell Finishing Holds, and others. Sorry, but Kenpo does not make the cut as the techniques are garbage! And I feel I am proving that. The only video response to me has been from Steve Shaffer on Clutching Feathers and on his second response he said the technique was impractical. Casa De Kenpo does one on Twist of Fate where they say you cannot pull off the technique- so why learn it?
    Some examples would be Hooking Wings- nobody pushes you at the waist. The “hand shake technique.’ Why do you hit somebody for shaking hands, and the method is stupid. Grip of Death is absurd. Parting Wings will get you killed. Lone Kimono and twin Kimono are idiotic. When they had the 128 technique system I tore them apart with Kenpo green and brown belts- 10 worked. That’s 8% effective and that’s pathetic!

  638. https://youtu.be/zy6L2-zczhI
    This is what i am talking about. Please notice that all is give and take and not just give. There are no static stances and no posing or “Kenpo postures.” This is what IKCA and other Kenpo arts cannot accomplish. Please notice the concept of blocking or evading and striking at the same time!
    I have to go to Malaysia from the 10th. to the 14th. When I return I will do some videos on the silliness of the IKCA format and the static nature of the blocking system.

  639. https://youtu.be/mk-EVLyIpts
    This is on the stupidity of the knife defenses taught by the vast majority of MA systems. I have dealt with blades 4 times. Twice uncut and twice cut. The uncut times the people were blind drunk. I did deal with two machetes in Thailand but I had my Rottweiler and my German Shepherd. I also had a 3 foot piece of steel pipe with me. And these guys were so drunk they could barely stand. And the dogs were fully attack trained and really nailed one guy with a machete. I nailed the other guy with a head shot with the pipe an knocked him out cold! I was lucky!

  640. https://youtu.be/L-uWI9XdaHA
    In this one Ed Aiken talks about training with Paul Vunak. I love the part where he says “you try your karate shit and your ass beating gets 10 times worse.” Are there good Karate fighters? Yes, but damn few. Maybe 5 to 10% are worth a damn if they train in traditional MA. And some just get a lucky shot in.
    https://youtu.be/bO1KtVW7ETo
    In the clip notice all the misses. Then notice that after his fancy salutation all his training goes to shit! He basically got a lucky and got a sloppy punch in. Once the altercation starts he looks totally untrained. I do give the guy a ton of respect for standing up for his girlfriend! But technically he is a bad fighter.
    https://youtu.be/q0dNa30K5M0
    In this one a guy takes 3 guys with just boxing. Nothing fancy, just good boxing basics. And I loved how his woman came into help! And he has my respect! But once again a guy who could take a shot to give a shot. You do not learn that with DVDs and distance learning! You would be amazed at how many “Masters” fold up if hit as they have ever had a real fight.
    https://youtu.be/gEDaCIDvj6I
    This one is a classic. And the Kiai Master claimed a record of 200-0. And he still has students! How? He is a fraud. But notice on the first contact he fell apart. You must be hit to really learn! You must work with people better than you to advance! DVD training does not work unless you have years of experience and a good training partner and that is the simple truth!

  641. Mr. Libby,
    I am trying to absorb what you are saying, but I have to politely disagree that DVD training is ineffective.
    What about guys(I have known of 3)that “self-teach” to box or kick box and go fight with no coach/trainer and although some don’t win they are able to stand in there with coach trained guys and last?
    I think you can learn to punch, kick, strike and block by air and dummy practice.
    You cannot learn timing or how to take a shot, but all else can be mastered alone and should be enough to build self-defense abilities.
    It works even better if the person is someone who is motivated, played sports in high school, or has been in a few street fights.
    I look forward to your video on what you think is lacking in the IKCA system.
    Thank you.

    • How do you learn to “take a shot alone?” That makes no sense. And you may have a totally different idea than I do as to what sparring is. Playing kiss contact tag is not sparring. That is a game with little reality. Go get in a boxing ring and see what happens!

      • 1. You continue to mix apples and oranges. Athletic performance (of a high level) is not always needed for a self defense situation. Have you ever seen a woman escape alive because she kicked and screamed? Was she coached by world class trainers and coaches? Or an old man or woman do the same? Or have you seen or heard about kids who escaped a potential abducter because they fought back? There have been those that have said they have used their self defense skills(including Kenpo) to escape or control a situation. To which you respond , “where’s the video proof?” You have no video proof of you anything….. So what the fuck? Where’s the logic in that? Because Libby says so it must be true?… What the fuck? That’s stupid talk and thinking. Its not even thinking. Let me beat you to the punch: “but I don’t train to fight people who don’t have skills, I train to fight wrestlers or mma guys who might attack me!” OK great, but is that realistic training? What are the chances of that happening? Far less than the latter.
        2. Just because you can’t learn and train from a video course or book doesn’t mean others can’t. Have you ever heard of P90X or Insanity or Zumba or Taibo or YouTube even? People can learn a ton and have incredible results. Obviously some productions are going to be better than others; such is life. I guess libraries are a complete waste and should all be burned to the ground, right. No one can learn that way (books and video).
        3. EVERYTHING you say is opinion based and based off YOUR EXPERIENCES. You can’t possibly speak for another human being. I always don’t like when someone says, “I know how you feel,” when someone has a significant loss like a family member. THEY HAVE ABSOLUTELY NO IDEA. They didn’t have any of the experiences that they did, memory or connection.
        Libby you have no idea. And many things you have never done. You can’t speak much on them. What you say is taken with a grain of salt. You don’t know. You are speaking your OPINIONS and THEORIES. Great. So are others. I think this may go in one ear and out the other with you, but difficult to argue what I just wrote. It’s the basis of modern science.

        Now please post your THEORIES. So others can reply in video format. So we can see others’ opinions and theories and watch fast action breakdowns. At the end of the day it’s ALL opinions and theories until someone has to use them. But then it worked for them, but can’t be said for fact it’ll work for someone else. It comes back to Opinion and Theory. But it’s great to have a lot of responses built in to us. That is why i believe many of us train.

  642. The martial artist

    Video training won’t work. JKD, Kenpo, Wing Chun and others will work for self defense. It is not the style, it’s the fighter who make it work. Vunak looks very good. Still it is a demo not more not less. Ed Parker was a great Martial Artist, out of the periode of Time we had the best till today. Bruce Lee, Joe Lewis, Dan Inosanto, Wong Shun Leung and many others. Check Geoff Thomson, Ed Downey and others on the internet. Let me know when you find the perfect Style or System.

  643. There is no perfect system and Ed was a clown. He was an incompetent martial artist who just wanted to fill manuals. He knew virtually nothing and his own video record proves that! And you are wrong! The “it’s the fighter and not the system” is bullshit! Yes, the fighter iss critical but some systems are just more efficient. You are merely brainwashed into believing that crap!

  644. I read all the comments here and decided to make to call the IKCA.
    Had a conversation with Vic.
    Said that Robert Libby was a “big boy” and also said he was aware that he had called out Ed Parker.
    Extremely polite and very genuine gentleman.
    That was pretty much the conversation.
    Just it would interest everyone.
    Not coming back as I do not wish to get involved any further.
    Good luck guys.

  645. Well said Robert. I agree 100%. Joshua thinks I’m licking ur ass well he can kiss mine. You have stayed on this forum despite so many detractors & yet you continue to reply regardless with what I would describe as sound analysis. I love the way some these kempo guys get upset when you tell em straight. Stay strong Robert, I support your right to express your opinion & if I may say your videos & explanations are well worth listening to.

  646. My late husband Len Stark was the creator of Combative Compliance a system with elements of Krav Maga, Judo, and LEO compliance techniques.
    About 85 percent was Krav.
    We had Kenpo experts come to us for instruction in defensive tactics.
    Authentic Krav Maga has no equal.
    That is what makes our combatives so unique and effective.
    I respect traditional Martial Arts, and that includes kenpo.
    But, time wasted mastering forms or self defense that has too many unnatural techniques is better served practicing stuff that works against varied attacks under stressful conditions.
    If anyone is interested in learning my late husband’s system as heir apparent I am available and willing to teach you our proven system.
    My fee is 250.00 per half hour of instruction plus air fare and lodging.
    A week of intensive instruction under my tutuledge will last and protect you for life.
    All interested leave name and I will follow up with my contact information.
    Yours truly
    Carol Stark
    GrandMaster

  647. Chen Style: well, you said it, not me. If it moves like a duck, sounds like a duck and looks like a duck, it’s a duck.
    By the way, I checked out Chen Style Tai Chi. Now, you say it is not a combat art. I would have to disagree with you big time! At least what I saw in some form displays. There were tons of traps, checks, strikes, sweeps and takedowns. It just depends how you look at it. I’m always looking for combative concepts and transitions of power and flexibility in an art. That form of Tai Chi has tons of potential.

    I was in church earlier today and there was a quote that was used about preachers, I’m just going to paraphrase. “Preachers often make the mistake that they think what they are going to preach is going to be understood by the community as they see how it relates to their lives. However, there is not enough talk or knowledge prescribed on how to actually apply it. Without application: the message is meaningless.”

    I think this happens in any form of learning and even in the martial arts realm. We have instructors teaching and there is the face of things. There is the obvious “technique” and specific scenario that it is taught in. But a lot of times how techniques or concepts can be diversified so it can be applied(applicable) to maybe even more realistic situations IS NOT.

    Martial Arts for self defense are supposed to be aimed at being as efficient as possible. The efficiency means being able to take care of a variety of situations quickly with as little exertion of energy as possible.

    Because it is Kenpo that remains under the microscope and attack, let’s talk about efficiency there.

    Kenpo is usually discussed or broken down in classes to be fast responding and efficient. How? A very common term and principle in American Kenpo that is used in defenses is, “point of origin.” This just means using the point of contact as the same place or piece to be used for re-attack. So instead of using the reverse hand or dipping to the outside: a collapse of the blocking force becomes a striking element. This cuts out possibly wasted motion and time consuming movements. It’s also often an unexpected type of motion so it possibly CAN BE more devastating, but is not a golden rule. Also, the trimming of time is very small. You’re talking about milliseconds.

    Another type of efficient principle is the use of attacks that are from a “zone on obscurity.” That just means an awkward angled attack that is difficult to see. That could be many different attacks like low kicks, uppercuts, downward leopard paw, upward chops, etc. Again, if they are difficult to see or not at all, they have potential to be more devastating than maybe more orthodox concepts. Efficiency is the name of the game. Having tricks up your sleeves can be a great help.

    Now there is the criticism in some or many Kenpo techniques that are too drawn out. I believe that is a true assessment. But it’s also unimportant. You’re supposed to be learning that it’s just teaching a range of different motions and options that can help in different scenarios. A whole technique is not supposed to be taught and believed that is what you’re supposed to do in a given real life situation. ***It is the efficient movements and principles are supposed to be used. That should not be confused,but probably is with some. Such is the case of any art.

    Now you can like the art or not. You may believe there is an art “more efficient” or fits your body type better. Perfect. That is why there are a multitude of arts to choose from. Always at some point someone disagrees here or there and makes their own adjustments, terms, philosophical approach and rename their system. Some times it’s good change and sometimes not.

    If someone would like to post a video questioning some form of motion or concept, go right ahead. As stated before, it’s a good exercise.

  648. Mr. Pestenar,
    If you would like me to post a video so that you can evaluate the efficacy of my late husband’s combat system, I will gladly do that for you.
    It will cost however.
    My film instruction fee is 150.00 for 15 minutes.
    I will give you a courtesy discount.
    $75.00.
    If interested please indicate and I will post an address for your check or money order.
    My video will be on YouTube within two days of your payment clearing my bank.
    Sincerely,
    Carol Stark
    GrandMaster

    • Haha. No thank you. I already looked you up on Google and anywhere else, I couldn’t find anything. There is nothing you could show in 15 mins or 30 mins that is worth $150-250 like is being posted by you. Sorry, pretty sure you’re a fake/scammer. Roll along.

    • Out for a buck……..

  649. Joshua I did not say tai chi was not a combat art, as a matter of fact its the ultimate combat art but it’s not street oriented like krav maga or jeet kune do or kempo. All martial arts share similar characteristics cos the human body only moves in certain ways. Read my previous posts a bit more carefully in future & u won’t come off as such an arrogant know it all. Question, I thought you had better things to do than interact with Libby’s ” Internet crew”? It’s not like I didn’t show you respect & humbled myself as someone just sharing they’r opinion.

    • This is what Chen Style wrote,”I practice Chen style tai chi Chuan & it is a life long path. Definitely not a street fighting art but a path of health & longevity nonetheless. If you genuinely want to learn more about it, look up grandmaster Chen Zheng Lei & you’ll see what I’m about.”

      Doesn’t say anything about Combat art, ultimate, or any further explanation. You were saying why you did not feel right in making comments on your own. Not sure how you expected anyone else to come to the conclusions you just wrote.

      Anyhow, I complimented your art. There was no confusion in what I thought you said. What you may have meant to say, you didn’t actually say. It really doesn’t matter now, you now said it. You told me to check it out and I actually did. However, I did not check for the guy you said. There appears to be other good representatives of the art or that is him and I don’t know it. What are you upset about?

      You talk about how you love how Libby is so straight forward and no one can take it. Well, I was straight forward with you. I was actually extremely positive… and you couldn’t handle it?… What the hell is wrong with you? The moment the tables turn you guys get all offended. You guys have the audacity to point fingers when others get tired of the biased bashing and you can’t stand an ounce of it yourselves… Your style was complimented, stop the belly aching crap.

      I said I’d be on here 1 more week. Today is the last day I believe. I keep posting because my name keeps being dropped and IKCA as well. So I’m being courteous and responding back. Make sense? Maybe a bit complicated.

      This is all just an exercise; a platform to discuss martial arts and Kenpo. What I really want to do is breakdown and play with concepts from other people and exchange ideas, drills, etc. There’s a lot of talk and no action here. So I have been waiting.

      I will bow out now until there is some material(video) posted dealing with concepts/motion/scenarios or even something IKCA Kenpo related. Not here to defend it. It doesn’t need it. But if someone displays what they think is wrong with it, we have some things to discuss and play with. Good exercise.

  650. Dear Mr. Pestenar,
    I am a real person and what I posted is legitimate.
    You will not find me or my information on the World Wide Web as I do not advertise my services or ever have.
    Instruction is done privately and those seeking my late husband or me came by referral.
    If you feel my fee is unreasonable that is fine.
    Good luck and please indicate by post if I can ever be of service or assistance.

  651. No eats my friend?
    Please not refrain fro this posting site.
    Your argument with Tribal Elder statesmen Libby is welcome.
    Your a most plesant gossiper to here.
    Now mays we include alwsys this womans crola sterks?
    Her man is said to has been.
    She a grand mistress of krap magoo and oyhes too.

  652. Mr. Fuburubi,
    Who the hell do you think you are to bring me or my late husband into your nonsense?
    Are you mentally disabled?
    You do not respect women do you, you filthy mandingo.
    If you ever bring me or the Stark name up again I will call the number left in a previous post and come looking for you.
    If you hide like most rat’s I will take it out on your head instructor and quite accurately rip off his penis.

  653. Robert,
    What’s the status on Joshua?
    Just in case I need to be in Maryland anytime soon.

  654. This current dialog is really deteriorating. Really? Ms stark your going rip off a penis? Please go back to where you came from. Josh I’m not upset, these exchanges occupy a very small space in my vernacular. I do think your splitting hairs though. At first you really added some good fodder for conversation, it’s just shame that your obviously frustrated that you didn’t the responses you hoped for. Anyway good luck in your future endeavors. I, like you have better things to do than squabble on an Internet forum.

  655. Random thoughts on this thread
    ____________________________________________________________

    Robert–Learn to use YouTube video editor or similar. It will let you work around your injuries better than anything you can do in the physical world. You could even narrate a series Ed Parker clips to make your points.

    It would’ve worked wonders for your recent critique videos.

    A critique of finger set would be nice. Poking someone in the belly like they’re the Pillsbury doughboy never struck me as a great idea. Actually, a horrible idea. Just awful.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FbwioKBYmco

    You might also consider pitching an article to print magazines to see if they’ve got the spine to print it (might offend advertisers). It would reach more people than this one forum.
    ____________________________________________________________

    Payne doesn’t deserve any blowback from this thread. If Robert & Joshua decide to take this into the real world, the responsibility is solely theirs. Not to say they shouldn’t bring seconds to any duel: that tradition sprang up for good reason.

    Several people have been unfairly dragged into this thread. Kevin Harshman dragged in Mike Pick time & again even making threats in his teacher’s name.

    A couple people, Mills Crenshaw among them, posted emails w/o informing the writers that they’d be posted in a public forum.
    ____________________________________________________________

    What I like about Joshua Pestaner is that he can explain anything in 10,000 words or fewer.

    But kidding aside, Joshua, you should be careful with your name. Anytime you look for employment, housing, etc., you’ll be Googled and you don’t want the results (this thread) to make them think you’ve a propensity to violence. Robert is 60-something & overseas so doesn’t face the same constraints as you. You’re young and have many years and job applications in front of you.
    ____________________________________________________________

    The IKCA has a disadvantage in that they teach by video; a tough task. However, they encourage their students to use their Kenpo dummy, similar to bag work. An improvement over the typical slap a uke 20 times with your finger tips (and yourself 15) and thinking you’re a lethal weapon.

  656. Haha. Am I that long winded? I’ll work on that. I’ve said many things repeatedly(unfortunately.)

    Not all IKCA practitioners are by video only. I being one that was not. But I have the videos and go back to them from time to time to refresh things and also get the baseline techniques. It’s easy to put your own flare on things and forget. You can also be a video learner and have a partner train with you. I’ve met a few and have been surprised with their skills. It’s admirable to have the dedication and motivation to learn an art this way.

    I’ve looked myself up on Google just now. I got tons of stuff. Most of my stuff being Kenpo related. Good thing I usually reveal my training on resumes and interviews. Not something I hide at all. Reading a long forum such as this and 10,000+ words from me would be considered by most if not all employers to be a waste of time. Who I associate on Facebook with, LinkedIn and news articles would be the main targets to gather info on me. I’ve had several FBI background checks already and nothing has ever pit me against the wall.

    On a completely different note… I saw the Bart Vale clip that was referred to many times on this thread. There is a somewhat of an attack or doubt shed on Ed Parker’s street cred. I cannot speak on any of it because I’m too young and wasn’t around them. But it wasn’t an attack on Kenpo. Maybe on American Kenpo. Depends on perspective. He (Vale) is a Tracy Kenpo practitioner, which I had no idea. I saw his Kenpo certs in backgrounds on videos, but never thought Tracy Kenpo. Vale believes American Kenpo and arts similar, to be watered down because a lot of techniques and drills are taken out.

    Watered down is actually the addition of water to a concentrated beverage or item that takes away flavor and expands the measure, correct? So is the action of taking away actually watering down?

    But Vale has strong convictions about his practice and believes you need all of the techs and drills and tons of practice. That would be right thinking I would say. But again I think perspectives can be different. In IKCA we have many of he Tracy concepts there, but not tons of reps in many forms and such. A potential down side to the IKCA techs and Maser Form is that techs are only practiced/tested for one side. Tracy and even American Kenpo usually have all techs trained on both sides.

    I have enjoyed watching Tracy Kenpo training and the little I could find of Vale doing his stuff. Tons of similarities with IKCA. But after evaluating both I still really like the IKCA method more. It’s not a knock on Tracy Kenpo or American Kenpo. Just an opinion and preference.

    Not sure if Parker could really throw down, but his analysis, breakdown and system has been able to positively effect others so they could protect themselves. It’s not for everyone.

    • You need to watch the Bart vale video again. He said Ed had no business teaching fighting as those that have never fought cannot teach it. He said Ed never had a fight in his life and “watered down the system.” Here is the link: https://youtu.be/Lh1zxei4toY
      The second link is about 52 minutes long. It is important as an entire group test was “passed on a curve.” The death of standards. I hope they get into a real fight on a “curve.” How can you pass a group of sub-par students on a “curve?” The curve part is in the last 10 or so minutes. To me this really shows how bad the standards got for American Kenpo!
      https://youtu.be/dV4zRj1OENg

  657. I am currently in Malaysia. I will be doing a full response tomorrow as I am going home today. I will take the advice on the videos seriously and as a valuable piece of advice, and thank you!
    As to Joshua- I have a wife. She is not a fighter but she is from the heartland of Muay Thai and has an eye for fighting. Her attitude was ‘Why?” She said “honey, I have seen you fight for real. I am afraid you will kill this kid. It’s like a mouse against a water buffalo. And the black guy is a paper tiger. He has no skills.” So I will weigh that into my decision.
    So I will send more tomorrow!

  658. https://stephiblog.wordpress.com/2010/05/…/morihei-ueshiba-was-a-frau…
    This address is from a blog. It shows Morihei Ueshiba. He is considered the God of Aikido. He was a fraud and con man. He is knocking people down and not even touching them!
    Now many of you may be thinking what the Hell does this have to do with Kenpo? This is how religions, cults, and martial arts bullshit get started. Nobody stops to question or analyze. They buy into the first part and then more just keeps getting added on. And after awhile you have the mother of all screw ups for a “system.” And a persons ability to apply logic gets worse the longer they are in the system and under its control!
    As you may have expected I will use Joshua Pestaner and IKCA as an example. Joshua has stated that IKCA is not a technique based system. Really? It has the “master form.” This appears to be a compilation of all the techniques strung together into one long form- technique turned into kata. That is a technique based model for training.
    The yellow belt is the first step. It has about 5 old school Kenpo techniques. Then it has the star block, a few kicks, one punch, two stances, the yellow belt form, salutation, and then it has a smattering of other things not required for your first test.
    Next comes orange. That has one more punch that seems like a jab, some foot maneuvers, it adds a few blocks, six new techniques, and the orange belt form which is doing techniques. You can get this right off of the IKCA
    website.
    Next comes purple. That adds a bit more footwork and 7 more techniques. It adds more of the master form which is technique based and the all important kiai (you should never yell in a fight as it brings attention).
    Now comes blue. That adds 8 more techniques. some sparring tips, the master form, and the universal block. It is mostly techniques. And how do you do sparring alone from a video? And if you have a partner how do you do it safely?
    Now we have green with 9 more techniques. Blue and green do have some drills involving hitting things like focus pads. But who will coach them on a DVD? I had a problem when I was boxing. I was hurting the middle knuckles. My coach got me to turn my hip more and that fixed the problem. Can you correct problems from a DVD by yourself?
    Now e have brown. That has 10 more techniques and the master form which is just techniques put together.
    Now we have black. That is 15 more techniques with one more drill thrown in and of course the master form.
    Now if you do not believe what I am saying look it up. The bulk of the work is techniques, and like 70%. But to Joshua IKCA is not a technique based system! I defy anybody to look at the curriculum and say it is not technique based. Also look at the videos Joshua and Greg Payne post- almost all techniques against opponents that cooperate. Even “running the line” may be a “random attack” but once engaged there is no counter attack. They just go along with the plan!
    I will be doing a video in a few days of Greg Payne’s attack for sparring. I will be showing very easy options to defeat everything he throws. All it is is a basic linear attack and uses only two options for defending from it when in fact there are numerous options!

  659. Excellent breakdown Robert.
    I can’t wait to read the Payne analysis.
    So, the moral here is that even with a minimal 55 technique system the IKCA still has way too many
    Is there anything that you evaluated that would actually work under stress?

    • The Master Form seems to be a combination of the 55 techniques done in a sequence. But you are fighting air as there is no opponent or resistance. Forms or katas are basically useless as there is no opponent.

  660. The idea of the dummy for punching is okay. But a person must be supervised as to how to punch, and how not to punch. Any person who has done boxing learns about wrapping and proper bag work! I have seen people do serious harm to themselves by not having an experienced coach or trainer. You have to know proper wrist alignment, how to make a fist, not to let the little finger pop out as many do, not to put the thumb on top of the hand but along the first and second fingers, and proper shoulder alignment!
    Another problem is overextending the shoulder joint and damaging it from hitting a heavy bag. I have had university level anatomy and physiology. I have also read books on kinesiology and training. When I was at the Main Street Gym in Los Angeles I approached a trainer and said “can I take notes on what you are teaching.’ His response was “kid, you can do whatever the fuck you want to do!” How many MA people have ever really studied the science of punching? Or taken notes from a professional trainer?
    The problem is that techniques are not necessary at all in the kicking and punching aspect of MA. There are only so many realistic lines of attack and only so many defenses, and it is well below 55.
    It is so simple yet MA people act like religious nut jobs (are you reading this Joshua Pestaner?). I wanted to be a better motorcycle rider. I went to a motorcycle school where they train you on a race track. The head instructor was a 3 time AMA champion named Reg Pridmore. I got a lot better as I used professionals. I did not use a DVD.
    And all the Kenpo grab techniques are either wrong or useless. Mny Kenpo and MA ideas put you in a worse position than you started in- Lone Kimono leaves you open for a punch in the head or body, Twin Kimono leaves you open for a head butt to the face and has no effect, Clutching Feathers leaves you wide open to be punched in the face, etc…
    I do not feel that people that have never competed in a real field like judo, BJJ, wrestling, boxing, or kick boxing should be telling people how to fight!
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ME8_Qshmpy8
    This clip is from Joe Rogan. He talks about how most all self defense martial arts are BULLSHIT!!!!!!!!!!!! He also talks about how when he went to Muay Thai from being a TKD champion for 3 years running and in several weight classes he got his ass KICKED!!!! That is what happened to me! It changed my life and how I practiced. It also opened me up to what BS 90% of the arts really are!
    And Joshua, I do not need to listen to your long winded sermons on how little I know and how I do not understand Kenpo. I also do not need to watch bullshit videos that are all wrong. I will be doing a breakdown on the video with your brother and you and showing why you do not know shit. And why the training is so unrealistic. At the start of each technique your brother has a little stop, and that “stop” can get you killed. And he is always center line. People who are 100 pounds do not take center line. But you just do not know those things. You are a copy/paste martial artist and DVD warrior!. Now piss off!

  661. Libby,

    This is an internet forum: not the Libby show.

    I didn’t say you didn’t know anything. I said there were some inaccuracies in your review of IKCA Kenpo. You chose the art I do to talk about (which is all fine), but it puts you at a disadvantage because you don’t practice it and never have.

    You’re acting like a religious nut trying to convert anyone you can come in contact with. You like what you do and believe what you do; great. Your truth is not everyone’s truth. Libby… Stop already. Keep conversing, but stop the bickering and trying to convince everyone to do what you do.

    I never drop my thumb to the second finger in a fist. Your wrist breaks down more easily. Your wrist is most anatomically aligned and reinforced when the thumb is on top or at the index finger. When it drops lower the wrist goes to crap. Look at a boxing glove and you’ll see usually a string attaching the thumb on top. It’s to help the fist and wrist.

    IKCA teaches that in the first few minutes. They teach a proper and great fist that won’t find you breaking yourself on the street. I learned it and never hurt myself again. But I use both fist formations at different times.

    Any questions, please ask.

    Please post your reviews as I have asked for a long time now.

    Our belief and practice is we pretty much always want to be inside. Someone smaller has easy access to the center line(soft targets). My brother pauses in the DEMO because he is worried to knock someone’s teeth out. In actuality he flies and doesn’t stop.

    Since he was in high school he had big giant kids and linemen coming to the house to train from him and spar in the garage. It was hilarious to see my brother surrounded by giants. He didn’t play sports. People would try to pick on him or test his skills… They ate a bunch and got beat up in front of peers by a kid a fraction of their size. My brother and I know a lot more than you about what it means to fight as a smaller person. You’re a water buffalo right? Not a leopard, cheetah, boar, tiger, or even a snake are you? Your knowledge and experience with that is and always will be limited. That’s not bad, just is what it is.

    • Yeah, but I answer questions fairly and accurately. Who is KenpoJ? Is this Joshua or Joseph?
      Let me prove to you how little you know. If you say do a reverse bow to a backwards hammer fist which is in a video with Joe Pestaner I will probably collapse on you. And those backwards hammer fists often miss by a foot or more (watch Kenpo videos at 0.25 speed). You will see the high degree of inaccuracy in the techniques as practiced. So if my 270 lands on your 105 to 1110 you are FUCKED!!!!!!!!!!!! Watch the Matt Hughes where he gets kneed squarely in the groin by Frank Trigg. Matt Hughes gets on top, waits for the pain to go away, and wins! If I land on you with an extra 160 pounds, and considering my ground skills are a lot better than yours, and yes, they are, you are sushi to a shark! I will merely “float” your diaphragm which is a BJJ and judo technique. You will not be able to breathe and I will end you. So do not give me this horseshit about “soft targets” to the inside. I get to hit back and move. And to me you are nothing but a soft target. I can hit harder, take more abuse, know far more than you, and have better skills. And even if an unskilled fighter lands on top of 105 pounds you are in trouble.
      Please stop with the fallacious Kenpo mantras- they are boring and intellectually dishonest!
      I’m still waiting for one video of Kenpo looking like anything at speed or Ed not looking like a clown! I am holding my breath!

  662. Okay, I am back from Malaysia and had a lovely time! You have on here “reciprocal striking.” You will notice that Greg Payne blocks, steps, and sets up to punch with the back hand. He does sometimes throw in a chop from the off angle going from his inside to outside.
    Ask yourself a very simple question- have you ever seen a boxer do that? That extra step is great if the opponent will stand there. But a boxer, the hardest punchers in the world, just blocks and fires. They do not move the feet to load the punch. If a boxer doesn’t do it that way you shouldn’t!
    So many of the MA techniques are predicated on the opponent standing there as you trash them. Please look at the street fight videos I downloaded. Do you see anybody standing and just taking a beating?

  663. I used Kiai as that is what it says on the IKCA forms. You always want to keep your mouth closed in a fight so that if struck in the jaw you do not bite your own tongue or break your jaw when hit. I do make sort of a grunting noise when I fight. But I have taken people out and just walked right out of a bar and nobody really saw who did it. I do not want attention.
    So if you mean a “fluid growl” put down a fluid growl and not a kiai!

  664. Have you ever seen or heard of someone getting impailed by falling on a ground steak or how or pitchfork? The body is much bigger but falling without control can get impailed or beheaded. We never stop moving with a hammer fist. If you were to acrually fall that’d be exactly what we’d want because what followsnis much worse than the hammer fist.

    You cannot make a fair review by reading the box covers or other summaries, Libby. You can’t do that for any kind of activity or learning course can you. “I know psychology now because I read all about it on the sleeve cover at the book store.”…. Really? Do you now?

    You like your boxing hands, great. They can be included to Kenpo.

    You seen the superman punch? Same idea as the reciprocal strike. No big deal.

    • That makes no sense at all. The “Superman punch” is not reciprocal punching. And what you are describing is DVD learning which I am dead set against unless you have a strong base in that art already.
      And I make my reviews through decades of testing. By going to lots of schools and trying people and their ideas out. By actually spending time at the gym or on the ground, and not by just looking in the window. And by working as a bouncer and seeing waht works.
      To use Joshua Pestaners example of “bad ass Maryland”, I live in the Golden Triangle od Thailand. In Cambodia I can have you murdered for $50 USD. This is one of the most dangerous areas in the world. My ideas have been tested here for over 20 years and they work. So I do not read box covers.

  665. Gentlemen,
    A lot of discussion on this forum on what works and what doesn’t.
    Mr. Libby is pretty much on point.
    You only need basic PROPER boxing hands, a few kicks BELOW the waist,
    a throw or two, and a very MEAN disposition to have a well rounded and effective self defense.
    You can go on and on, but it don’t take much to build good self defense skills.

  666. I don’t think anyone is saying it takes a lot to learn self defense. You don’t need a ton of hands and a ton of kicks. You need enough and know how to use it in a variety of situations. What you described as boxing hands, a few kicks below the waste and a few throws could describe a multitude of arts of self defense.
    How do you develop a mean attitude if you’re not born that way or brought up that way?
    Many arts aim to answer that question as well as have ways to take care of a many type of situations efficiently. When you start practicing it on bodies you find that it’s not really that easy.
    If it was that easy you could easily put any person who has a gun and knows how to shoot a gun on a SWAT Team or Military missions, special forces, right?….. In reality, it’s just not that easy. You have to train situations physically, mentally, emotionally. You can’t just say, “I have a mean disposition.” You have to act it out when necessary. Knowing when that is is also something that has to be learned. Reading is easy, but someone has to teach you the alphabet, pronunciation, words, sentences, paragraphs, etc, first. So, it’s not really that easy. But it definitely can be with good practice and training. The more diversified the reading and vocabulary; the better the reader. If that’s not done, yah you can read, you’ll live, but your speed and comprehension will be slower. On top of that, you might be missing out on a lot of stuff you may have been interested in if you were a better (more diligently diversified) reader.
    Just a different perspective.

  667. That make sense. But the toughness part must be taken in steps. You develop the student into being a warrior. You progressively get harder on them. And I would sometimes let my students beat me to develop confidence or at least get shots in on me.
    The problem here that so many do not want to face is that some MA systems are just intrinsically bad. This mantra of “it’s the person and not the system” is just wrong. Of course it is always the person, but some systems are just so vastly superior to others. For example, BJJ and Judo, who I put on equal footing, are light years ahead of Aikido. Muay Thai is way ahead of Tae Kwan Do. And if you really analyze a fighter who is say a Tae Kwan Do black belt and he beats a Muay Thai fighter it is because the TKD fighter isn’t really using TKD anymore. He has modifying the kicking, and sometimes only bu inches as to the depth he/she puts the kick in, and the hnds are boxing. So is he/she really a TKD practitioner? The answer is “no.” They have evolved and gotten more effective, faster, and tougher.

  668. All styles and systems have something to offer.
    Authentic Krav Maga is the ONLY one that has everything to offer and unlike others has been proven and tested by hundreds of thousands.
    Some have been hypnotized and it was determined that they used Krav Maga effectively sometimes against multiple assailants.
    Agreed.
    Thailand and those surrounding regions are extremely dangerous.
    But so are countries like Mexico, Colombia, Isreal, and many others.

    • Some Krav Maga I have seen is good and some is complete crap. Paul Vunak’s PFS can compete with REAL KM any day of the week. And some systems have nothing to offer as in the cases of GKR and Keichu Do. And I never said Thailand was the only dangerous area. Look at Detroit and Camden, New Jersey!

      • So if I am Cambodian and speak the language of Cambodia and move to the USA on a work visa and I learn English: I am no longer Cambodian?

        This is essentially the same thing you are saying. If you are a Tae Kwon Do guy and you learn some other stuff to add to your knowledge; you can no longer identify as a Tae Kwon Do guy.

        Within martial art systems and styles there are cultures(not cults). If someone stays in a system it’s often because it is the culture they are drawn to. They have a feeling of belonging. Does this mean they can’t pick up anything outside that particular culture?

        If a BJJ/Judo player jumped into a Muay Thai competition don’t they have to apply the same game plans as the other Muay Thai practitioners?… Yes, right? Because their tactics would not be effective or allowed, right? But they couldn’t be called or associate themselves as BJJ/Judo players anymore?

        I think that’s kind of extreme rationale, but there are many traditionalists that believe this way.

        Some people identify themselves with their first or more trained art because of the culture they are drawn too and/or the way they see the world or other arts is through the eyes of the first art. They may be learning/training another art, but they break things down in their minds with the understanding from their first art. I think this is how I see things. I adapt new concepts into my tank, but I break things down with my Kenpo mindset and culture. I still consider myself a Kenpoist.

        Yes, you can’t train all toughening drills as a solo practitioner. But there are ways to get it in. Check out the movie, “Fighter in the Wind.”

        I’m not on the Krav Maga band wagon. Yes, there are better practitioners and branches of Krav Maga around, but many miss the mark. Pad work, no body toughening, robotic exercises and taking the thinking out of things is what can be seen most often. It drives me crazy that many people think everything can be addressed with a knee(s) to the body no matter your size or body type. But I really have a lot of respect for the psychology and techniques for gun disarms in Krav. Very practical stuff. The hand to hand is ok. I maybe wrong, but from what I’ve seen is that the best instruction in Krav is from instructors who have deep practices in traditional systems. They turn the krav techniques and make it amazing.

        Not trying to start a war, but I’m not crazy about Paul Vunak. He teaches some boxing, but when the application is mixed with realistic combat situations it looks to me like it gets ditched. I watched the whole multiple attacker Vid that’s on YouTube and I really disagree with a lot of it. Totally agree with picking up objects around you. Loved the pickup of the ash tray and busting the guy’s coconut with it! But the zoning and footwork not so much. The drilling not so much.

        I know I’m all over the place with this piece, but wanted to hit everything I could in 1.

        Lastly, Judo and BJJ are great in certain aspects. But like all arts they have certain holes that can be addressed with different practices. I think there are plenty of things both those arts could learn from Aikido. Aikido is pretty bad ass. But again like most if not all arts, depends who’s teaching it and with what emphasis. Aikido philosophy is what keeps it looking so clean and nonlethal often times. Can’t overlook so quickly.

        • One other point. You said “this is not the Robert Libby show.” Well I am one of the few who has first hand knowledge of Ed Parker. And I am the one who was called a liar, a fraud, and heavily insulted so I will say whatever the hell I want to say and when I want to say it. And it has been clearly shown that it was the Kenpo people that were liars, frauds, and cowards! GOT IT! And I feel my critiques are valid and can help people to avoid McDojos of any system. I also feel that what I teach actually works and is not just theories from some Mr. Miyagi wann be!

          • Ok. We’re not as different as you make it seem sometimes.

            Yah, an MMA fighter is going to rely on coaches that are most familiar with the sport. Karate and Kyokushin are often tied with the Zen philosophy. With that philosophy it is against their principles to fight for money. Some the toughest fighters are from Kyokushin and their tournaments are not based on money. It’s to see who is the best and to show the best of you. To westerners that can often be looked at as insane practice. Kind of like Olympians, but on an even smaller scale. So guys like GSP are going to get advice from trainers like Roach. It wouldn’t be a good idea to go to the latter because the experience is not in that realm. It’s the heart of GSP that gained so much from Kyokushin. GSP was not close to the top of the food chain in Kyokushin. GSP is also not a boxer even if he does a lot of it. He doesn’t have the movement, mechanics or natural ability a great boxer has. But that’s ok, he’s fighting in MMA and that’s only a small piece of the pie.

            Lyoto and his brother used a ton of karate in their fighting. Lyoto has had to change things up to not be predictable. MMA is a fast changing game. Years ago Rogan would say on broadcasts often how karate kicks didn’t work and front kick was useless. Now it is used by many MMA fighters. I watched Travis Browne the other night throw probably close to 40 front kicks. I also saw others do the same. People have learned its effectiveness and other movements as well. Things can go unnoticed quite easily.

            Now you say Vunak can not or should not be judged by his footage…. Then why are you so quick to judge others by their footage? You clearly understand that the footage will only show so much. When others say that this or that person shouldn’t be judged by a small clip you go on to say they’re full of crap or whatever else.

            You clearly know that I haven’t seen enough of Vunak to make judgements. And I agree with you. I still don’t like a ton of the material he teaches. But that’s just me. As an individual we all have our likes and dislikes.

            Paul Vunak can have a crazy unbelievable story, and other people can’t. Other people can’t have stories of how their training has bailed them out? I really think you need to be more open minded. But that can be said for everyone including myself.

            I’m with you in the distaste of McDojos. I have to teach and practice real effective martial arts. We are on the same mission from slightly different perspectives. They’re really not too different either.

            I look forward to your clips breaking down what you believe are effective concepts.

          • Because I was at that filming. It was done in San Diego and it was a promo for police departments! It was done in a bar. You have to look at his videos in total and they are very good. Like the boxing one where he uses head movement and good boxing mechanics. His trapping is insanely good as are his ground skills and weapons work. He deals in reality. I am only using the video you referenced as I was there. For the street Vunak is one of the best. And he is one tough son of a bitch! When he does a demo he rolls with everybody and is very active. His seminars are all “hands on” and no games. You will be banged up and bleeding at the end!

  669. Well you are talking apples and oranges. You would be born a Cambodian and that is always the same. But yes, if you go to America, become an Oakland Raiders fan, forget the Cambodian language, become an atheist, and lose culture that is like the TKD guy. TKD, like all martial arts styles, has common elements. So if you are fighting a guy and never use TKD blocking, use boxing hands and footwork, and your kicking is more Muay Thai you are in fact no longer a TKD guy.
    Let’s use George St. Pierre. He gives his Karate background a lot of credit. But who trained him 5 years ago- Freddie Roach, boxing trainer. 4 years ago, Freddie Roach. HE is making a comeback now- Freddie Roach again and Freddie will decide if GSP is ready, and not somebody from Shotokan or Kyokushimkai. SO GSP has become far more of a boxer and somewaht abandoned his Karate roots. Lyoto MAchida, who I knew little about as we do not get UFC where I have lived for 15 years, is very talented. He made a ot of wins by his natural talent and gifts and not the superiority of KArate. Muhammad Ali got away with a lot of stuff due to his freakish talents.
    As to Vunak- go play with him. You are judging by a video. His stuff works and I have used it successfully numerous times. At first it was really Larry Hartsell/Inosanto/Bustillo stuff, but basically the same.
    Paul Vunak and Tom Cruse were in Corvallis, Oregon. They got into a fight with the Oregon State defensive unit if the football team. They took out like 9 guys and Paul and Tom were late to a seminar as they had to post bail. I bailed Larry HArtsell, Vern Holliman, and John Powers out of jail with Norm Pattiz and Paul Dalton. They took out like 8 to 9 guys. Larry took out like 4 to 5. I have taken out 3 before. So there stuff is battle proven. How many MA people can say that? Almost none.
    I encourage you to go to a Vunak seminar. It is a humbling and wonderful experience and when Paul is “on” he is one of the best teachers in the world. So do not judge him by some promotional videos! He is the real deal as are his students. He does not give away rank according to who you are as many do. What he does in not fancy, but it is very effective!

  670. How old is Paul now?
    Does he still train and is he in shape?
    I did some research and correct me if wrong but didn’t Vunak have a very bad problem with drugs for many years.
    Granted he was and may still be one of the best at teaching working street defense but if you don’t take good care of yourself and abuse it at some point as the body ages it will faik to function efficiently.
    That can only equal diminishing skills regardless of how “bad ass” a person once was.
    If GSP comes back his best chance would be against Anderson Silva who has shown signs of slipping his last few fights.
    The new, young breed in his weight division would beat him.
    I think the time off will wind up being his downfall and the young guys will want to build thir name off of a legend like GSP.
    There is a lot of good free advice given here and you guys are great.
    Keep it coming.
    It has helped me open my eyes to other training alternatives.
    Still, my experiences with Krav Maga have me rating it above the others.

  671. Vunak is in his 50s. I think he is like 53 to 54. I hate to say this, but yes, Paul had some serious problems. But as far as I know he cleaned them up a long time ago. But he did always work out and eat right, and took vitamins and supplements. He looks good today. But he still has a ton of knowledge to share. And remember he is going from beating 4 guys to 1 or 2 where most MA people cannot beat up 1.
    GSP- who knows. He was a great fighter and he doesn’t need the money. As they say “styles make fights” so it depends on who he gets! And there’s always the “puncher’s chance” scenario.
    As to Krav Maga. To me what it lacks is the boxing hands. I have also seen “filthier” systems that are more street effective, but I have only seen videos and never studied it with a real KM person. When I was in Israel in 1978 I trained with a KM guy and had no problems taking him apart. He was always open but that was 1 guy and hardly case study. HE was also a terrible grappler. And there are just so many fakes out there. Most that I see just have the guy stand there while the KM guys wastes him. And I have seen some HORRIBLE knife defenses from KM. There is a guy named AJ Draven? I think that’s correct. He is a clown but says he got certified in 2 years. He reminds me of Master Wong as far as how he does techniques.
    I have seen far more bad KM on the Internet than good KM. But the Internet is not real. I have also seen a little bit of an Israeli art called Kapap? It looked interesting but I have seen very little of it.

  672. https://youtu.be/0D2ldyBJGWM
    This is a link to a Krav Maga demonstration of how to get out of a “blood choke.” Complete bullshit! All the “choker” does is stand there and let the guy dominate him! If I have you in a blood choke and you go for my groin I will move my hips. If you go for my eyes I will have my face cradled against you. He makes it seem just way too easy. He also shows shooting the hips back to destabilize the choker. If you do that to me I will simply mount you from behind and wrap my legs around your waist so you work harder. Or I may step on the back of a knee and put you to the ground!
    That is a critical issue I have seen in KM videos. It is all preset scenarios and little real resistance!

  673. You make excellent points.
    I must consider that guys such as yourself and Vunak have been at this way before there was Krav Maga in the US.
    A school certified instructor having only several years cannot have the same knowledge as you or Vunak.
    Especially when you both have used your technique in street fights.
    But as a whole, authentic Krav Maga is an excellent and easily retained system with practice of course.
    My chief instructor did boxing and implemented all the necessary boxing fundamentals within the system along with gouging and ripping type techniques.
    Your insight into combat is very impressive and I am highly impressed with your vast knowledge and with the time you are taking to encourage others down the right path of applicable self-defense.
    Not many would be on a forum helping others by donating their expertise.

    • Thank you for the kind words! I just do not know “real” Krav Maga so I cannot comment on anything but what little I see on the Internet. And it has been mixed. I have seen some really good stuff and some bad!
      I feel that many on this forum and others forget that my goal really is more focused on helping people than bashing Ed Parker, yet I feel American Kenpo needs to be bashed as it just doe not work! But I also go after other systems that have the same flaws like GKR and Keichu Do. I also feel TKD is a joke.
      As I have mentioned before what got this started for me was Bas Ruten and Joe Rogan mixed with seeing all these MA cult videos and all these idiotic titles being thrown around. And all these “masters” who would fold like a graham cracker if they ever got hit!
      Once again thanks for the support!

  674. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lpl_7w8-jTE
    This should take you to the Rick Roufus fight. He fight a Thai kick boxer. The rules did not allow the kneeing in the clinches and some other rules were modified. Despite Rick Roufus dominating with better boxing the “karate style” stance left Roufus totally open for leg kicks. That is why you do not stand in a Karate type stance. When the fight was over Roufus could not walk right! I am not sure he could walk at all!
    Now before people like my soon to be punching bag Joshua Pestaner chime in you need to understand a critical element- shoes. I wear tennis shoe cut hiking boots all the time. Violence here is so common that I am always ready for a fight. When I Thai kick it has some savate in it and I put the rock hard toe just above the knee. I have ended people with one shot. I also “probe kick” right into the knee cap with a rock hard shoe. It stops the tibialis anterior tendon from working- the one that flexes your foot upwards. It also tears up the patellar tendon which is the biggest tendon on the body. You wreck those two ad he cannot walk! In France savate people (boxe Francais) would wear steel capped shoes. My shoes are from Cabelas and they are actually very comfortable but hit like a brick due to the toe cap. They also have Vibram type soles so any stomps are brutally painful or if I block kicks with the bottoms of the shoes.
    I will be showing what is called an “instant analysis.” It is an important skill. It teaches you how to compute all factors in a fight in a second. And to me one of the most important is shoe vs surface. The only place I wear sandals is at home. I always wear shoes in Thailand. The most casual shoe I will wear is a Keen river sandal which also has a major toe cap, but the soles are not nearly as good! But they stay on like a shoe.
    Videos in a day or two. The Internet here has had some problems!

    • You had said many times that street fights don’t end in 1 shot ever. Now they do. You’ve done it several times… Good. It is very possible for anyone to do.

      • I have never said anything such thing! I have said they usually do not end in a 1 punch way or kick way! I have always said that there are a lot of variables in a street fight I have seen numerous i shot fight enders in the street and in boxing.
        I have seen the classic muay thai kick to a snapped leg- not that’s a fight ender!
        So please do not say things I never said or put a spin on things.
        I also said earlier that Lyoto had used some classical karate techniques. But he did it because of his athleticism. Announcers have commented on how he got away with things because he was just so damn fast. He could bend the rules. So once again I never said that. But his undoing by Jon Jones was Karate as he always dropped the hand to the hip and Jones got him!
        If you are trying to say that Karate people are on a par with boxers you are nuts. I just downloaded a George St Pierre highlight reel and it is like 10% Karate and the rest is boxing and grappling!

  675. https://youtu.be/kaUrm26VQh8
    This link is Roberto Duran fighting Carlos Palomino in 1979. It has some slow motion with a written analysis of what Duran is doing. It really shows how boxing is so much more sophisticated than any karate system could ever be. It really shows so many of the intricacies of boxing! And it was a great fight! You really get to see how they work bodies into position and the sophistication of the blocking and body motion to avoid getting hit.
    Now think about what you see here and then think about what you doing at your dojo!

  676. This is in reference to a comment that Lyoto didn’t use karate to win his mma bouts. It was his athleticism…
    https://youtu.be/urhdB5aZTgQ

    • On the karate kid drops bully a lot of it is boxing. And I have said Karate can work on people that know nothing as at least the Karate guy has some sort of plan.
      This is a really long thread so you may have missed some earlier things I said. But overall Karate does not work. It is way too ineffective. And rarely do you see a combination as taught in a dojo, and I mean like very rarely. It may be a 1-2 combo but nothing with the complexity of say a Kenpo, GKR, or Keichu Do technique.
      And even with Machida and St Pierre the vast majority of what they use is not Karate. As I said before who is training GSP right now? Freddie Roach, a boxing trainer!

  677. Collection of street fights, mostly young adults.
    https://youtu.be/kmJBA_leelI

  678. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c2XmGPlfRh8
    This is a GSP highlight reel. Almost all boxing and grappling. He does use some Karate, but little/ If you want to go tit for tat on effectiveness you will get chewed up. MMA people and boxers destroy TMA people and that is just a fact!

  679. 1. The One-Strike Kill

    The biggest cliché of karate is the one-strike kill. This of course does not exist, but has fooled so many for years. Shigeru Egami (one of Funakoshi’s top students) freely admitted there was no such thing. At one point in his career, Egami admits going into a deep depression after concluding a personal study about which martial style had the most powerful tsuki (punches). He found that karate had the least powerful tsuki, and boxing the strongest. Betting everything on one punch can get you killed.

    2. Waiting for The Attack

    Karate philosophy states, “wait for the attack.” Remember Funakoshi’s maxim, “Never attack first?” This is suicidal. In real situations, the first person to strike usually walks away. The untrained public, (influenced by Hollywood) erroneously thinks you have to eat the first punch, but you give up your lawful right to protect yourself by letting someone strike you first. Criminals take advantage of this civilized mindset. If you feel that violence is about to break out, strike first.

    3. On Stances

    Karate, (along with several hard Chinese styles) employs some of the most ineffective stances in martial arts. Deep, low karate stances make you completely immobile; they plant you in one spot, making quick movements extremely difficult. This is great for working your muscles but not for active conflicts. You may as well hang a sign around your neck saying “strike me at will, I can’t move.” If you recall early kickboxing, the first thing they got rid of were those static stances.

    4. Karate as a Way Of Life

    Years ago while in Japan, Gogen (Yamaguchi) once came up to me and asked, “I never see you practice kata, why?” I replied that I thought it was an exercise in futility, having no functional value. He grew upset and chastised me by saying, without kata, we’re just animals, like boxers or wrestlers, I replied, “that’s OK, I just want the skills.” More than anything else, some karate practitioners have a fear about being labeled as “killers.” Their reply is always, “I follow the path, karate is a way of life.” I guess they feel absolved from their inner conflicts or sociological guilt when they say that, sort of like what confession does for a Catholic. There is nothing wrong with the spiritual side of karate, but you have to understand there’s a time to fight and a time to meditate.

    5. Spirituality and Meditation

    For many Japanese karateka, religion and martial arts are inseparably linked. Japanese spirituality and meditation are not a function of karate; they’re emblematic of the culture that developed it. Westerners really buy into this big time. It’s actually a direct affront to your personal beliefs. What if a Japanese boxer wanted to train in the U.S. with a Baptist coach, would he have to join the church, sing out loud, clap his hands, dance and get down? Changing your spiritual identity in order to learn self-defense doesn’t make sense! Mas Oyama once asked me how much time I meditate per day. I told him — I don’t, I have my own religion; I don’t need to replace it with another.

    Meditation does not necessarily benefit any martial activity. For example, if you recall, in the 1983 Olympics in Korea, the Koreans had the strongest archery team in the world. They attributed their secret of success to their late night meditation practices in cemeteries. Did it help the men’s team win – no, an American walked away with the gold. Did he meditate? No, before each match he was listening to Van Halen!

    6. Breaking Objects can Break You!

    Karate, more than any other martial art is renowned for its breaking demonstrations; but anyone can break inanimate objects, it’s easy and you don’t have to study karate to do so. Do breaking boards and bricks translate into fighting ability? Again Egami comments that breaking objects is very different than striking a human body, humans are resilient. He goes farther, saying that even “makiwara” training is harmful to the body, and stopped doing it already in the late ’50’s. Robert Smith, in his book “Martial Musings” notes that Mas Oyama damaged his hands so much he couldn’t even place a blanket on top of them when he went to sleep. Continued breaking over a period of years brings with it such delights as arthritis and other degenerative diseases.

    7. The Kata Crutch

    A major part of karate practice focuses on kata. I’ve never understood why so many people defend it so vehemently. There’s almost a cult-like obsession about doing it. Perhaps karateka feel it grants them a special kind of spiritual dispensation, allowing them to indulge in the study of fighting. Kata however is nothing more than several techniques strung together; a tool to help beginners understand how techniques flow. For advanced practitioners, it constrains your progress and adds no functional value to your fighting skills. Jon Bluming said it best, something to the effect of, “it takes up time, and the money rolls in.”

    8. Karate Doesn’t Prepare You for the Street

    Unlike a sparring match, there are no rules on the street, no time-outs, no referees to separate you; there’s no sanctity of life. Street fights don’t start at sparring distance; many times they suddenly erupt chest-to-chest, many times from behind without warning. Your attacker won’t necessarily stop if you scream in pain. Unlike the smooth floor of the dojo, the street and pavement can be uneven, broken and contain dangerous objects you can fall over.

    In all the years I spent in karate, there was never a word about fighting under adrenaline stress conditions, the use-of-force, gross motor skills, and absolutely no legal considerations. Karate is primarily concerned with the attack stage of the encounter; no mention is made about the pre and post-conflict stages. Environmental and situational awareness, preemptive strikes, what to do if you’re hurt, do you run away, or make a citizen’s arrest – these important elements have not been added to the karate curriculum.

    Many karate techniques employ fine motor skills; under stress these are the first skills that abandon you. To work under excited conditions, techniques must be simple and based on gross motor skills. If you’ve been in fights, you know that after a few seconds of wild striking, many people start grabbing each other and quite often fall to the ground. How is your ground game? Do you know how to fight in a parking lot at midnight, on sand, gravel, on ice on a winter’s day? Training barefoot in a dojo doesn’t prepare you for any of these scenarios.

    9. Karate can make you Stiff and Rigid

    For years people have avoided weight training for fear that they would become stiff. If they only knew the truth — weight training actually makes you flexible and supple; karate can make you stiff! I’ve spoken at length to many boxing, kali, Brazilian Jujitsu and muaythai instructors and they all agree, karate produces a tenseness and rigidity that seems almost irreversible. I believe it’s all those hard air punches and kicks, tense kata and deep immovable stances contributing to this condition. You see this state most pronounced when karate students take up reality-based defense.

    10. Karate is Ineffective Against Modern Weapons

    The term Empty-Hand says it all; the main focus of karate is on unarmed combat. They do practice traditional weapons however, but what use is sai, tonfa, sickle, and bo practice when you can’t carry them. This is unrealistic in 2009, where attacks are mainly carried out with guns, knives and impact weapons. When you typically hear of karateka being hurt in an attack, it usually involves a knife or gun. Whenever we do seminars employing weapons scenarios, it’s usually the most advanced karateka that get killed the quickest.

    11. Karate Takes Too Long to Learn, and You Still Can’t Fight!

    In terms of effort spent, to proportion of effectiveness gained, traditional karate is one of the least efficient systems of any fighting style. Too much time is spent on the inanities of rituals and form. Most karate schools spend countless hours on kata or mindless sparring, as if this will prepare students for a real fight, but it doesn’t. Free sparring in karate only teaches you to fight other (barefoot) karateka’s in a dojo (school) environment. Kata practice is a primitive form of shadow boxing. There usually is no counter-knife, counter-firearms training, if it is taught all, it’s usually presented in a rigid step-by-step process, having no relation to what a real attack looks like.

    12. The Apotheosis of the Master

    I’ve always felt uncomfortable with the semi-deification of the so-called martial arts master. It just goes against the grain of my western upbringing. My goal in learning fighting was not to become a supplicant of an old man with a tough reputation. I believe that’s another reason why mixed martial arts (i.e., BJJ, muaythai, boxing, and Filipino martial arts) have become so popular. There’s no groveling involved just mutual respect. In the west, a coach doesn’t demand a special status, over and beyond his normal duties. A coach guides athletes in their respective sports. His goal is to encourage, goad and train his charges to success. He is the father, the friend and the teacher; athletes trust him and his judgment.
    https:///Kd_oBd5DENk Bas Ruten on Karate bullshit!

  680. https://youtu.be/rIUY-1flzqc
    And this is by far the norm. For every clip you show me of Karate “working” I will submit far more failures. George Dillman below!
    https://youtu.be/_Z0_n7tGnK0l

  681. https://youtu.be/2Ghjf1NsXqs
    Listen to what they have to say; it is very realistic. And says that “yes” a traditional martial art may work, but there are far better ways. And many are jokes!

  682. You said it yourself that the internet is a bunch of lies. Dillman is your best known karateka? Dillman is so far(not even on) down the list of karatekas in my mind and by many. You don’t know karatekas and that’s ok, but don’t pretend that you do by posting up horrible examples.

    Every fighter drops their hands while fighting. The lead hand rips back while the other hand delivers the strike. The harder you pull the lead hand the harder the punch will be. There is no great boxer that keeps one hand covering his face 100% of the time.

    BUT you do have many traditional martial artists that have forms and drills that have their hand chamber at the hip instead of keeping chest or head level. This can be a problem in combat if not addressed, but is not the rule. The argument that a boxer keeps his hands up 100% is false. They train to, but in the heat of combat it doesn’t happen because theyre trying to knock the block of off their opponent.

    Check out Dominic Cruz vs Dillashaw. I watched in awe of him dodging so many shots. I don’t know how he is able to do it with his right hand down by his waist probably 95% of the time! He is the biggest abuser of this I have ever seen. I don’t understand the advantage of doing it either. Crazy.

    Bottom line, every fighter opens up holes when in battle.

    • Forgot one point. You talked about katas and drills. A major problem in TMA- there should be no forms!

    • https://youtu.be/BDgCQtxXhQw
      Tis is called Blood and Guts Karate 1968. Every person in it is a champion! Yet by today’s standards it seems laughable These were the big guns of the day. Norris was not there as he was injured.
      Now I want to clarify that I am not knocking Joe Lewis here as I respect the guy on a lot of levels. But he was not the “King of Karate”- Benny Urquidez was and that is by the numbers. Benny’s record was 67-0 in sanctioned fights and 23-0 in non-sanctioned fights.
      Now Lewis left TMA for the very reasons he is supporting here. He complained about bad officials, unrealistic parameters, bad calls, and politics! There is a video where they are saying to Joe Lewis “Joe, they’re not going to let you win this one.” Now Lewis was rough, but limited in his early years and then got much better through hard work and realizing what he needed to change.
      You can go to videos of Steve Sanders Muhammad, and I would like to add that Steve is one if the nicest and most respectful people one could ever meet, complaining about racism at tournaments. They would often arrange the fights so that one BKF fighter would fight another BKF so you got rid of at least one BKF fighter.
      I fought Mike Bissel in 1973. I was doing well and it was at Ed Parker’s Internationals. So head referee Pat Johnson, Mike Bissel’s teacher, 3 Tang Soo Do black belts in the corners and one TKD guy. I blew up at Pat Johnsn as I was KILLING Bissel and said “If I give you fifty bucks can I buy a fucking point?” I ran Bissel out of the ring numerous times yet never a warning or point for me. So In sudden death overtime he hit me with a nothing shot as I drove him out of the ring and he won. My students who were there said “he was outside so he cannot get a point!” Then I laid into Johnson for real. I never went to fight again. The lights were on and I realized what horseshit TMA was. I had already done judo and some boxing. But I would never compete again. I had had incidents like that one before.
      So look at this video and tell me how “realistic” it is for the street! ANd these were “the best of the best”.”

    • https://youtu.be/hkh9Bwvzvk8 Video on hand positioning in boxing
      The Tj Dillishaw Cruz fight was GREAT! But I feel TJ won, as do many people. So you have one guy who bends the rules and gets away with it. Why do all coaches say KEEP YOUR HANDS UP? You will see boxers sometimes pat their gloves together. That is to remind them that the hands are up.
      Now as to George Dilman, he used to be very respected, back in the 60s and 70s. But this type of BS, although often greatly watered down is prevalent today.
      Watch Kempo videos. In Cross of Destruction they talk about when you “dislocate his thumbs”, “when you break his elbows”, etc. BULLSHIT It is as if everything is just a given because you study Kenpo! And Kenpo knife techniques are beyond stupid! They are irresponsible and dangerous! They should all be trashed!
      I have never heard a boxing coach say “keep your hands down.” The problem you fail to realize is I do not care that much about the ring sports, although I love watching them. But much can be learned from them.
      In a street fight you need those hands up right away due to things like head butts, whether accidental or intentional. Keeping fingers out of the eyes and other problems. It also protects the ears from slapping type hits that can bust an eardrum. And with boxers you have one padded surface hitting another padded surface. You do not have that luxury in the street and I love rapping the backs of hands with my knuckles!.
      Now this is for Joshua Pestaner and his inane comment about boxing gloves. Apparently in IKCA they put the thumb on top. He says that it is like a boxing glove. In a boxing glove there is no other place to put the thumb due to the way the gloves are built! Unless they change the construction the thumb must stay on the side position and not under. And the front padding sticks out enough so the thumb does not make contact and get damaged. The gloves were first built to protect the hands and not a persons head! Nobody gave a damn about the fighters or their health. They only wanted longer lasting fights!
      Personally I do not feel you should punch the head in a street fight. Punches should only be to the body. Head shots should be eye jabs, heel palms, elbows, and head slaps. A good head slap can knock you out as can a heel palm, but takes away some range. Opening the boxing glove and using the palm area is illegal as there is no padding. It is also illegal in wrestling and NFL football. David Deacon Jones was the king of the head slap. He was wrecking people so they made it illegal.
      And please do not bring up “forms and muscle memory.” Doing techniques against imaginary people that do not fight back does not build muscle memory. And do not try to compare shadow boxing to forms as there is no comparison!
      And in Kenpo most do not even know where a human kidney is. Please take the Kenpo or other TMA videos an go to 0.25 speed on YouTube. You will be amazed at how inaccurate the strikes are, and I mean missing by a foot, and how the hand strikes are often not correct as in a chop to the neck where the hand looks like a semi-clinched fist.

  683. You are talking apples and oranges again. I never said that fighters never drop their hands and used Muhammad Ali as an example. But the sad fact of the matter is that the George Dillman and the videos I showed are the norm.
    Let’s take Kenpo as explained by Joe Rogan’s ideas. Lots of symbolism, tons of bowing, belts to the side, crazy terminology, unproven fighters, and mystical stories. Yes, I believe Ed Parker beat five guys with knives and clubs in 7 seconds! I mean there is even a time limit and that story id over 60 years old, and it;s pure bullshit. Bill Ryusaki talking about Ed Parker “stacking up the bodies.” Another bullshit story!
    Yes, fighters violate the rules. But overall they do not. And TMA is in a sad state of affairs as the vast majority are BULLSHIT!!!!!!! And that is like 90% or more. In many systems you pay your dues and you get your belts! ATA is known for this type of fraud as is the WTA. I knew a 7th. degree in TKD and asked somebody what medical condition he had because he was so bad! They said he was just uncoordinated. You see all these high ranking black belts that have never been tested and CANNOT FIGHT!
    So you can point to a few examples of those who break or bend the rules. Well there about 100 million doing TMA and 90 million are useless! So when you can show me 90 million examples let me know!
    Another person mentioned Norris. Norris said “I would have done well in MMA.” He also called himself “a professional fighter.” That is hallucinatory. Norris has never done full contact, yet stories float around that he was a “fu;; contact champion” at middleweight. Norris by old guidelines was a lightweight. He has never had a real fight. So once again myths. But I do respect his BJJ black belt which I believe he got from the Machados. He is always in shape and looks good for his age, but is not a fighter.
    SO as I said, when you come up with 90 million examples let me know! The Internet is filled with videos of people that do not have a clue as to what is going on in a real fight! And Kenpo is one of the worst!

  684. Who cares? It would be a non=contact match! That is part of the deception of TMA. He is a “champion.” At what? Tag? High speed tag is what the old tournaments were. And some former “real fighters” went to TMA to make money!
    Norris never had a real fight in his life other than doing BJJ and even in that you can tap out. You cannot tap out in a street fight. That is why some people get beaten to death or permanently injured. I only care about the street. So I know there have to be some rules in the dojo, but you can come close.
    But a serious problem is many teachers do not even know how to train people. And in the comments I put in Funakoshi says “you wait for the attack.” WRONG!!!!!!!! It’s “the firstest with the mostest” to use an old saying. Most TMA principles are backwards!

  685. Tony Martinez Sr. was a Golden Gloves amateur champion. They have much shorter fights with heavier gloves. But I still give that a ton of respect! They do actually hit each other and can get knocked out!

  686. This is a well written article by a lady that has studied TMA and reality. She does a really good job of explaining why TMA does not work, and cannot!.One of my favorite parts is about untested people with really high ranks atht could not fight if their life depended on it, and in the street your life and those of others may depend on it!

    Most people think of martial arts and fighting as being more or less synonymous. I see them as a Venn diagram of two sets that overlap by a tiny margin. This is because most martial artists don’t fight and their training isn’t directly based on what happens in a fight.

    There are reasons for this. The problem of training for a fight is a tricky one. If an instructor puts students in an actual fight (as opposed to highly controlled drills with restricted moves), they might get seriously hurt. But if instructors can’t create an accurate representation of a fight in the gym, trainees will never really be tested. To make up for the lack of fighting, martial arts typically focus on displays of fake combat that illustrate the combative moves that have been passed down through history. They may have non-contact or light contact fighting, but this only tests your ability to touch the other person with the techniques you have been taught–not your ability to hurt them for real much less take a beating yourself.

    Most people who study martial arts study a system. Whether the system is historical (like kung fu and karate) or modern (like Systema and Krav Maga) the techniques are taught formally, with ranks, with semi-compliant drilling between members of the same school, and with a heavy dose of hierarchy that keeps everybody in their place. With a few exceptions (Gracie Barra jiu-jitsu is one system that grades predominantly through hard competition) the idea of all-out fighting is a theoretical one, kept well in the background.

    But fighting is chaotic. It’s often unpredictable. It doesn’t systemize well and it’s difficult to pass on as a body of knowledge. What people don’t realize is that no matter how effective the founder of a discipline may have been in his (or in the case of Wing Chun, her) day, unless the practices of that system involve rigorous testing in realistic fighting conditions against non-compliant opponents from outside your system, you can never really know whether you can make their moves work for you.

    It’s not a big leap to get from martial arts to religion. To a greater or lesser degree, you are expected to take what’s being taught to you on faith.

    There are a lot of problems with this, but perhaps the most offensive to me is the fact that a person can rise to high rank and great influence without possessing any fighting ability whatsoever. Thus is born a cycle of bullshit. You have someone teaching you (allegedly) to fight, but they have no fighting experience themselves let alone the know-how to help you. If you go along with this long enough, you can aspire to turn around and teach others one day. Ad infinitum; ad nauseum.

    I’ve been a part of that cycle. When you realize what’s going on, it’s disheartening. And the more heavily you are invested in the hierarchy, the deeper the disillusionment, and the more difficult to throw away your investment. Even if your investment turns out to be shite. For years, even after I saw karate guys biting the dust against trained grapplers in the UFC cage, I believed that the great karate masters from my former school’s lineage had some special combative power that was too dangerous for the UFC. I thought that if they weren’t fighting in these contests it must be because they were too spiritual–not because they’d be shit-scared to try.

    This is what happens when you have a powerful imagination. Fundamentally, I’m a nerd. And I swallowed a lot of bullshit because I wanted to be a part of a warrior culture (groping notwithstanding). I later learned that many people have made the same mistakes that I did.

    By contrast to me, my partner was an athlete and street fighter from a very young age. In his youth Steve was kicked out of Kyokushin Kai for excessive contact so he moved to Japan, where he trained so hard he earned a third degree black belt from Yamaguchi Gogen within a year. When he got back from Japan he ran a martial arts club in central London for many years while researching global fight training methods and their history. Around 1973 Steve started an ‘anything goes’ fight class where all methods and techniques were allowable–it was a kind of proto fight club. He told me that the immediate result was that the white belts started beating up the black belts and the black belts fled the club in droves.

    Steve’s not famous, but people in the know are aware of him and what he does. Over the years a lot of higher ranks have walked through his door looking for guidance, and I personally observed any number of black belts come undone under even mild pressure. They realized painfully that their system had failed them.

    Many made an initial effort to change. A few threw away what they’d learned and worked very hard to start over with a fight-centred approach. These guys did improve massively, and they developed self-reliance and self-respect–one became a successful professional MMA fighter. Some quit the martial arts. Many others–I’d say the majority–soon realized how hard it was going to be to deal with the challenges of fight training, and went back to their systems. They seemed chagrined, embarrassed–but not enough to let go of their status in a recognized hierarchy. Some of these guys are quite highly ranked teachers with respected credentials.

    I could never understand this last response. Before I realized I was crap at fighting it was maybe understandable that I placed faith in my karate training. But once you see something, you can’t very well un-see it. Unless you are an ostrich. Or you run a dojo.

    Which brings me at last to the parallels between science fiction and the martial arts. Over the years I’ve formed the opinion that both are most commonly used as means of escape from reality. Nothing wrong with escapism as a thing–you need to be honest about it, though, and martial arts tend to fail big in that department.

  687. https://youtu.be/2lY-dIKU8Vs
    This is called TAM- Taking the Woo Out of Martial Arts
    Joshua, there is a scientific explanation done by real scientists that explains that when you put the thumb down, the way I teach it, that it buttresses the knuckles and doubles the impact resistance of the knuckles when punching! Keeping the thumb the IKCA way is stupid as it is weaker by 50% which is massive and exposes the thumb to more injuries. Now I know that you know more than most physiologists that actually studied this stuff at a thing called a university, but you are wrong! And it sows how only a human can make a proper fist! Apes, monkeys, and chimps cannot. And please remember that before you were born I was going to the Main Street Gym on 3rd. and Main in Los Angeles and taking notes and LEARNING! I wish they had the technology they have now for recording! I also went to UCLA and read anatomy and sports medicine books and saw how many of the concepts taught in TMA were so wrong. And as to your Livestrong article trying to make me look wrong, well that was semantics. To me toughening and conditioning are two different things in MA. I have forgotten more than you know! Of course I do not know the “Master form” so I probably know very little!
    They say, martial artists, “It only takes about a pound of force to break a human rib.” Maybe, and if the rib is dried out and not in a human body with cartilage, the spine, muscles, and internal structures supporting the rib! And if perfectly placed between two objects to create leverage! Benny Urquidez said that on a TV station called KCAL, it was channel 9 in the 60s and 70s, and he was wrong. Benny is a phenomenal fighter and great guy. But he is not a scientist. But you could not find a better guy to learn kick boxing from! But he believed this myth. And it is illogical when you think of how many times he has been hit in the ribs and has hit people, and with tons of force, not 1 pound. But he believed what he was taught by people that did not know what they were talking about!
    It has real fighters on it and is very well done. Parts are rather funny also. ENJOY!!!!!!

  688. Robert, you’ve gone into quite a bit of depth in your analysis & at the risk of kissing your butt, I’m constantly impressed by your willingness to share your knowledge. Everything you’ve shared makes sense, I may not agree with 100% of your views but you definitely know What your talking about. Maybe you should start another blog called the libby show, I would definitely subscribe.

    • Maybe when my shoulder heals, but I have a problem here in Thailand. Thais are a small people and many are terrified of me just by size! I cannot find people to wrestle with and my white training partners come and go!
      But thanks for the support. I hope you watch the one about Woo in martial arts.
      It made some great points!

      • Interesesting read, but it still is opinionated; not factual. That’s OK. Like it was said in the article or you wrote, martial arts training is faith based. You have your faith and others have theirs.

        What you do you say has worked for you and that’s what it is supposed to do. Practitioners of other arts have similar experiences. What you practice or what is trained in “modern” arts are still taken from TMA. There’s nothing new. TMA were put together by people who did not believe in the current styles/systems of the time. It is natural to change. What you’re telling everyone to do is keep changing. That is perfect, but that also doesn’t mean they have to abandon what they do. They have to make it work for the times we live in today. I think Bart Vale says it great, you have to be able to practice it. He loves his Kenpo and all its techniques. But you gotta practice them for real and make it work.

        Many mainstream schools/locations/arts are watered down. I think that’s kind of factual. Many owners are scared of injuries, insurance rates, being sued and making profit. Training gets lost and forgotten. It becomes a pattern and you can have hundreds/thousands of people believing in a false reality.

        There are then hole in the wall schools that don’t worry about profit, injuries, etc and focus on content and being able to really help people prepare for real confrontation as well as have fun and live a good lifestyle. You can’t throw everyone under the bus. Like the lady said about her husband, his school and himself never gained much popularity. There are others. TMA and non that are adapted to work in real life. TMA are generally also about personal development a lot. Developing unmeasurable traits of our human existence. Self defense classes are usually geared to be preparing people to defend themselves quickly. Doesn’t mean they’re going to be great, but more ready they should be. There is need for both.

        I think you contradict yourself unknowingly. You say you concentrate on street self defense, but you always refer to athletes and competitions for what you believe works, but you also state that those realms are not realistic for the street…. So stop putting them together. I think its pretty accurate that you are not going to get mugged by a boxer/NCAA division 1 wrestler(like Rogan is always imagining to get into a fight with), karateka, kungfuist, Thai boxer, etc. Training should be allowing someone to be prepared for any of the above so they can demolish the lesser breed they more than likely would face in the street. Then there’s multiple attackers, and that’s a completely different horse to handle.

        You like your fist and it has worked for you. I have broken my wrist before, broken my hand before. Before I knew and used this vertical fist is when I broke. I hit much harder and faster than I did back then and test it on everything. With that said, I also do use the horizontal fist(thumb not passing the index finger) with certain strikes. Especially the way I hold my vertical fist, I can get thumb clipped by certain strikes I throw. For hooking type punches I use a horizontal fist.

        You’re a big guy who thinks and moves like a big guy. Your whole adaptation of self defense is catered to a big man. Do you know what I’m saying? So your beliefs cannot go across and fit the board for everyone. So your view is limited, doesn’t mean less value, just limited as anyone else’s. I am more geared to fight like a smaller person. And yes, I do enjoy being able to handle bigger opponents. That creates bigger belief in my training. It wouldn’t be the same if it only worked on smaller people.

        • The analysis he gives on vertical vs horizontal is highly questionable. He talks about that critical elbow part. If the elbow stays in tight the horizontal hits just as hard if not harder. I use both. I have seen trainers yell at people and yell at me and say “keep that fucking elbow in!” If you keep the elbow in the vector of force changes. And the twist on the end cuts flesh. That is why they put Vaseline on the fighters face; to prevent cutting. There is also a chopping right. These debates have gone on for decades as to is the hook, upper cut, or cross harder. But if the elbow stays in they are about the same. I believe he defeats his own argument by saying “when the elbow comes out.” What if the elbow does not come out” Whole different punch!
          As to me contradicting myself I do not agree. For me to answer all the points and do all the strategies I would have to put a masters thesis on here, and I am not going to do that!
          I agree with a lot of what you say about personal development, confidence, friendships, and other factors. But those do not make you able to protect yourself in the street! I think Tai Chi is great for people to stay healthy and flexible. And I believe it does develop a harmony between mind and body.
          As to the “you’re a big guy and fight like one” that is true. But I can train little guys too. I would pull students aside and tell them in the office “stop trying to fight like me. Learn to fight like you and I will help you to do that.” I have trained the blind, nuns, and disabled people. I trained a guy named Robert Ulery who had an immobile knee from a motorcycle accident. I taught him to adapt and work around it. I learned how to adapt martial arts to suit the persons needs. When I was teaching at PFS of Ridgecrest one of the students came to me and he said “you teach for the person and not just the system.” Most MA teachers cannot do that, and that is once again like 90%. And to clarify it is because of the people that were kind enough to teach me and not because I am so great. But I have a good memory.
          When we think of MA we think of Japan, Okinawa, China, and Thailand. WRONG! Los Angeles, California. Benny Urquidez and the Jet Center, the Gracies, the Main Street Gym, Seinan Dojo, the IMB Academy, Paul Vunak, and the Inosanto Academy. (Vunak is not in Los Angeles but close by). Los Angeles is a Mecca for MA. And a big reason is Hollywood. Other reasons are great weather, the beaches, and there is a lot of money there. So any MA person that has fame wants to come to LA and be a star or make more money. So I had great places to train and great people to learn from, and in every style. In Thailand we have Jaa Pa Nome, or Tony Jaa, the Thai Bruce Lee. He wants to move to LA. New York is much the same but without the great weather.
          I have had two wrist surgeries. My right wrist was 8 hours long. My surgeon started it on a local anesthetic as it was supposed to be about 1 hour. Then he said to a nurse “call the office and cancel all my appointments.” Then he said “put him to sleep” and the anesthesiologist said “good night Mr. Libby.” He said it was like a grenade had gone off in my wrist. My left one had a 3 hour partial reconstruction and a left thumb tendon repair at the same time.
          On the woo martial arts they also brought up a good point. Are you willing to take the stitches and trips to the emergency room? For most it is no! I was “playing” with a PFS instructor in the hallway that went from the restaurant to the bathrooms. He shoved me and we got into it. We were not mad at each other; it was just PFS playtime! So people who knew him got up to help him as they thought it was a fight. Another PFS instructor told them “they’re just playing.” A guy said “that doesn’t look like play to me!” So I screwed up and on instinct hit him in the throat with a bridge shot. I instantly stopped and said “free shot for you.” I apologized and we laughed it off. But we were both bleeding, and yes, we had been drinking! But in that little “playtime” we did more damage to each other than most MA people take in a year! And it was like 2 minutes of full contact!
          So how do we define MA? And TMA is bullshit as almost all are quite recent. To me it is the ability to defend yourself in a realistic fashion in a street situation and be able to see the variables- street surface, type of shoes, his size, do you smell cigarettes or alcohol, does he have rings on his fingers, his clothing, etc… Vunak calls that the “instant analysis.” And it can be critical. You also need to see who is coming up that can be a possible threat and hear them, which can be impossible in a crowded bar!.But you also need to use mirrors to see what people are doing and feel how a crowd is moving, the way a fish’s skin feels pressure in the water (being a bouncer teaches you those skills).
          And how do we do this? We must build up our students over time and put them in stressful realistic situations! One example would be if he taps from a choke and it has only been on for a few seconds do not release it! Teach him that he/she can take more than they think! One time Tom Howard was sparring Scott Loring at the Santa Monica Kenpo School. Tom Howard covered up and went against the wall. Scott told him “covering up will not do you a bit of good” and worked him for awhile to teach him. I did not see it, but believe it. I had seen some of what went on there and been smacked around myself! Larry Hartsell was critical for my development as was boxing.
          Hope that answers some of it. It feels good to be challenged and shake the mental cobwebs loose!

  689. I never looked for the physics of the vertical fist. Thank Libby! I like what I do even more!!!!! He’s not using or explaining the capped off fist, but just the vertical punch. Makes even more sense! Thanks again!????

    https://youtu.be/VtbcRgRASVk

  690. About Chuck Norris.
    Excellent point fighter, and like Robert said in shape and looks good for his age.
    However, I’m not so sure how well Chuck would have done in his prime on the street.
    After all, on the Johnny Carson show way back when, Norris was showing Zsa Zsa Gabor self defense techniques.
    Another guest was Rosy Grier.
    Remember him?
    A pro football player, big boy.
    When Gabor asked Chuck to demonstrate on Grier Chuck did all he could to avoid it to the point where it looked like he was ignoring Gabors request.
    Also, and Robert can correct me if wrong, at the Urquidez vs. Narong Noi fight a fight erupted in the audience and Chuck tried some Tang Soo Do kicks falling flat on his rear end!
    I respect Norris as a very good point fighter of his era, but he never fought full contact.
    Now, on to an incident of more recent times.
    Outstanding kicker/actor/former champion Van Damme was knocked out by real life BAD ass Chuck Zito.
    Friends who knew the bouncers at Scores when it happened and saw it said that when they started to have words, Van Damme stepped back and was removing his glasses when Chuck punched him in the face, dropping Jean Claude.
    As the bouncers made their way over Van Damme rose up, wobbly, and attempted to get into a fighting stance looking drunk.
    Zito, a class act.
    Refused to talk about it on the Howard Stern show.
    Years later, he said that he wasn’t going to give Van Damme a chance to kick him.
    As for Tony Martinez Golden Gloves bouts I’m sure that experience was and is an asset to his kenpo training and instruction.
    That gives him an edge when teaching his students because he knows how boxers train, punch, react, etc.
    Some of the toughest Golden Glove boxers come out of NYC.
    Their novice champs are capable of handling many open class champion from other regions.

    • https://youtu.be/WmgHY6rk0QE
      This is from Freddie Roach. When you use the horizontal fist the shoulder comes up higher and helps to protect the head from the hook. Many MA people, and once again 90%, keep their heads up and not down as they should. Some fighters will drop the head a little more when a head high hook t is thrown and let the hook skip off of the shoulder and it will not hit the head. I like to back up what I say with people that really know what they are talking about. The JKSMMA guy was good, but he is no Freddie Roach!
      There are so many fine points to this game that TMA just does not answer! And it is because they do not know the answers as they have never fought in the ring or the street, and I give ring fighters at any level a lot of respect!

  691. The funny thing was that Rosy Grier of the Rams legendary “Fearsome Foursome” which included David Deacon Jones had taken up the hobby of needle point. He would make pillows and things like that. I think he became a minister/pastor. And I also seem to remember that he was a good singer and was on some TV shows singing.
    Yes, the fight in the crowd at Benny’s fight was because Benny used a judo hip throw and dumped him on the ground, and hard (it’s on YouTube). So Thai fans went nuts. As to Norris fighting I have not heard that part of it, but it could be true. I just do not have first hand knowledge. But I do know that Norris has referred to himself as “a professional fighter” which is absurd. He was a point fighter who became an actor. But he does have a black belt in BJJ.
    As to Van Damme I believe that after Zito dropped him Van Damme curled up into a ball until the bouncers came in. But I think Chuck is like 220 and Van Damme is 155. But Zito is a very rough guy!
    Yes, I in no way wanted to disrespect Mr. Martinez’s boxing. I also know that Philadelphia had some great amateurs that came out of the Police Athletic League program.
    Nice chatting with you as always! Another trip down memory lane!

  692. Robert,
    Your right.
    Van Damme curled up almost into a fetal position.
    Zito fluctuates 220-240.
    I thought Van Damme tipped the scales at close to 200 but it wouldn’t have made a difference.
    Chuck fought in the NY Golden Gloves, and if memory serves me right is a 5th Dan.
    He developed his own street combat system based on his experiences in street fights and as former president of the NY chapter of the Hells Angels.
    I know, going down memory lane actually brings makes me long for those days again.
    I really hope that I have the honor of meeting you in the near future.
    We would have a lot to chat about regarding the good old days.
    Not for nothing, but was Benny able to hold his own when he boxed with Bobby Chacon?
    In his prime, straight boxing where would Benny have ranked?
    I definitely put him in a league with guys like West Coast boxer Tony Baltazar.
    And realistically see Benny vs. former lightweight champ Arturo Frias as a pick um fight.
    With more boxing Benny goes the distance with Pepino Cuevas and maybe even Palomino.
    Maybe you and I should collaborate on a book about all this.
    It sure seems like you and I are a very good source of accurate information.
    Always great to share stories and read about the blood and guts days with a legitimate pioneer like yourself.

  693. I think Benny would have been a champion. If he had not spent the time on kicking and just on hands he would have been great. He had a great chin and he had the power. He decked Joe Lewis once and Lewis was like 200 to Benny’s 137.
    Van Damme is only like 5’7″ so he is a small guy. But I knew grips that worked with him on movies and said he showed up in shape and ready to go to work!
    Zito is an enigma. How do you just get to leave the Hells Angels with no repercussions? I have always heard he was one rough guy!
    Bobby Chacon- what a tragedy! I met him a couple of times when he was a champion. Man he had wars in the day with guys like Ruben Olivares and Bazooka Limon! The south of the border Mexicans would come to LA and the East LA Mexicans would go to the Olympic Auditorium. If one group didn’t like a decision there would be riots! I was in one, but a spectator, at a Little Indian Red Lopez fight as I remember it. I was trying to get real small and hide! Thank God I speak Spanish and talked my way out of there with my friend! But Bobby got into coke and was smacking his wife. I think he committed suicide at an early age! But he was in a car club with the guys called The Latin Lads. I am sure they were not choir boys. But Benny and Blinky got real into the Jesus thing! So was Lily who I just read died of kidney failure at 59! She was very nice! So it was a few years ago, but still sad.
    I put up 2 new videos. I put up a main one and a little piece I forgot about the right cross with fist up or fist conventionally thrown. will do some more tomorrow about knives and some fight tips. Look up the Woo in martial arts. It;s a good piece!
    Adios Amigo!

  694. I love history! In some places the vertical and some the horizontal! I have used both successfully. But my hands have taken a beating over the years, but I wouldn’t have it any other way! THANK GOD FOR ADVIL!!!

  695. To say I’m impressed with your knowledge of boxing is an understatement!
    Anyone here doubting you should man up and accept the simple facts.
    You’ve been there and know your stuff.
    Limon, Olivares tough champions.
    Another one Little Red Lopez.
    Not sure, but I think the NY chapter was not as big as the West Coast.
    Also, Chuck started to get a lot of bodyguard work which took up quite a bit of his time.
    I keep hearing that the big wigs at UFC headquarters always comp him front row.
    Robert, back to the book idea.
    What about shopping your own or maybe even a movie script?
    All the things you’ve been through and experienced could make an interesting flick.
    Get Van Damme or Segal who I’m sure are looking for projects in on it.
    You would know better than me being from the LA area.
    Would your material/intellectual property be safe?
    Sorry to hear that Lily passed on.
    59 is young, especially for someone who worked out all their lives.
    We gotta get ready for an upcoming BD.
    A year older amigo.
    Post again soon.

  696. https://youtu.be/3-y57A8Y4Fo
    This is a link to Muay Boran. Some asked about it. The guy is speaking in Thai. I understand it but you won’t, but you can understand what he is doing. And it is weird that he is doing it with a woman! The woman who do Muay Thai have separate facilities as they are not allowed in the Men’s ring!
    How would I even approach those guys? I would rather work with Van Damme. I do not think Seagal plays well with others. With my temperament and his do you think we would butt heads? YES!!!
    I have decided to do the video tonight on some training methods for beginners. So many do not know how to do this correctly. And sparring with people that have no basics or confidence is somewhat useless. I used to let my students bang me around a little. I knew a high ranking black belt who admitted “I have never hit anybody.” So how can you teach people how to hit!
    I will throw some knife stuff in and rip apart another Kenpo technique. I will also be critiquing an IKCA open hose with Joshua and Joe Pestaner and how the Joe is being taught cam get him killed! He is like 110 pounds! I will show some subtlety on throwing as Joe tried to do a shoulder throw- he is too short and should have used a drop throw over the leg!
    Stay in touch. I’ll call you somehow when I am in the states in about 7 to 8 months!

  697. Libby,

    Go on with your dissection of the demo. But keep in mind its a demo, NOT A TUTORIAL. It’s a time to show some flare and display some of the cool things you can learn in the art. Its like showing a flying armbar. Is that realistic for a streetbfight? No, but aweomse to see, right? Same with jump spin kicks, blind folded chi sao, 1 inch punches, exotic throws, locks, eskrima stick disarms, etc.

    In your video ask some questions for Joe and as well display what you think is good. Give him an opportunity to reply instead of just giving cheap shots like those who play the “knockout game.” That’s how there can be a real discussion and and growth on this thread. You want to spark debate and that’s cool, but don’t the right way.

  698. Well actually that’s what I just did with the technique to use the jab to cover the step and gain foot distance. I will be doing more of that.
    As to demo versus tutorial people watch these demos and follow them, and often to their own demise as they do not work! And I believe in certain street rules. Never kick above the waist, no leaping shots or flying stuff, and avoid backing up. I avoid backing up as like the car in the video things get moved in the street and you may trip over something that wasn’t there a few seconds ago! And against the “wait for the attack” idea I start the attack if I feel it’s coming! I want to get off first. And if you knock the guy out or disable him his pals may not want to join in!
    The dissection of the IKCA video is a part of that as it is errant teaching and methodology Ask yourself a question- how many MA people have ever even looked at a book on physiology, anatomy, or kinesiology? Maybe 1%. They just repeat a lot of bad ideas. And they repeat some good ideas as well!
    I will be going to knives next as it is so dangerous as they are taught.
    As to the “knockout game” that is very valid as people have been killed and it is still growing. People must be aware of where they are and potential threats! I believe several have died from this insanity!

  699. Ok… So you agree with the vertical fist and indirectly admit I know what I’m talking about and you like being challenged. Thank you and your welcome.

    Ok, your horizontal fist you try to defend. In the end it is a preference thing. For me I see it like this: with the horizontal fist you really have to concentrate to keep the elbow down because naturally when you turn it over, the elbow wants to flare out. With vertical fist the elbow never flares out because the thumb is up; no reason to flare up. You try to show that the horizontal fist gives more coverage to the chin. Really what is happening is you are keeping chin down and shrugging. This can be done exactly the same with the vertical fist.

    BUT (other fist) you can turn the hand all the way upside down (more torque, elbow flares up and totally covers chin with little shrugging needed.) Also it forces the 2 strongest knuckles to make contact becausebthey are penetrating out the most . It’s another great punch.

    Let’s use your numbers: 1%. Let’s say out of 10,000 practitioners, your 1% actually study the body and it’s western science. That equals 100 practitioners. That’s not such a microscopic number. There are a lot more MA students and teachers world wide so that number is Much higher. Not bad. So there can many resources of good info.

    If you don’t like a technique, just say you don’t like and go into what you like and what you believe works. You waste a lot of time saying this and that is trash. Get to what matters. I agree the technique you showed is not a very good one,not practical. Why? Its a lot of fine motor movements. These type of movements seldom work under stress. But there are some interesting things that can be learned from it. But in the end not practical or high percentage concepts.

    I don’t agree with you that attackers know how to do chokes, kick the groin and knee stomp to people’s backside. I work with a lot of people who are coming out of jail and many have no clue about any of that. The athletes I work with also seldom know these things. The security people I have worked with seldom know these things. They have to get training. Most security peeps are scared to train. They dont like being touched. That’s why they tend to flip out so fast in clubs and other environments. They just use size and blast. It works, but not always. Often things can be done with out escalation if they just knew or had better trained reactions/techniques/motion.

    • No, what I am saying is that if you can deal with the people who know how to choke the others are far easier. It is the same with punching and kicking; if you can fight the talented people the untalented are really easy.
      As to the 100 people studying that is not insignificant as so many really knowledgeable people are ignored and so many uninformed people are teaching, and they shouldn’t be. The Internet is a blessing and a curse. It is a great aid to learn anything, but any idiot can post things. Look at Chosun Ninja. He once said “it doesn’t matter if you’re fighting four or forty people, no more than 4 people can attack you at once.” That is insane! More than 4 can attack at once and how could you fight forty people! But he has followers despite being proven to be wrong a lot!
      As far as James Walsh of Charm City Karate I use him as he is all over the Internet. But the “demo” vs “tutorial” argument to me does not fly. He is incorrectly showing people how to do things and using garbage scenarios. The hold was never really put on and there was never any resistance. And once again it is “give and take”- a proper hold with resistance and real battle to get out, That way both people learn at all times whereas in TMA nobody learns. As there was no battle for position the aggressor never learns under pressure and the defender never learns under pressure so both lose out on real training. And that is tragic! In BJJ and judo what they do on the mat is what they do on the street so it is real.
      On the shoulder shrug for the vertical fist I disagree. It does not come and does the opposite and goes down or “anchors.” But once again you seem to sort of blow off the “doing it correctly” idea as with the elbow position. I would rather have two or three great tools than 10 mediocre ones!. The “other fist” you refer to is called “ox head” or “cow’s horn” in Japanese arts. But it has a much slower recovery to protecting the body areas and far easier for a grappler to get under and get over hooks or a body lock to a throw! It is impossible to attack without creating an opening!
      I asked a Japanese stylist if Japanese Karate had a hook like punch and he said “no.’ So I showed him that very punch and showed it on the Internet. He was a 5th. dan and I knew more about his system than him! So they had lost a good part or piece to their art and once again a watering down of standards. I sparred him once. All I did was walk at him like as in just walking forward. He was mystified and helpless. I have shown this before to people. If you go outside of their dojo paradigm they are baffled. You can actually walk then right into a wall. Or I will let them hit me as I back up or slide to weaken the shot and when I do not go down they lose their confidence and panic as they believe in the ippon kumite idea of one hit and you go down. Samurai had a similar idea of “one cut, one kill.” But that’s with a Katana or Dai Katana so a little more deadly.
      And Kenpo is an art of being less than mediocre; it is one of being substandard. And I can back that up with the video I submitted where they graded everybody on a curve- you do not do that. And I watched the standards plummet over the years in all TMA but a few. Judo and BJJ always stayed high and so did the real JKD people that I knew. A lot of the Japanese groups also kept their standards high although I disagreed with how they fought. ATA and WTA got just ridiculous!
      I just watched some Larry Tatum videos. All the same bullshit- “when you break his elbow:, “when you break his arm”. when you break his jaw, “when he goes to the ground”, etc… All unproven from a man who has never fought or competed in any real events. Ne bets people who stand there and take it.
      I once had a Kung Fu San Soo guy who thought I was full of shit. So I said “let’s go to the mats.” He said any good Kung Fu man could stop a wrestler dead in his tracks. After I had submitted him for like the tenth time he still had excuses. And then it went to “you couldn’t do that to my MASTER!” So I asked him “If you have a fight will your MASTER be there?” He still clung to his BS ideas. Brainwashing through years of lies and manipulation is potent stuff. I have always been a skeptic so maybe that helped me in the long run.
      But I do enjoy are chats and really enjoy any historical things you send like the old boxing photos. I do not remember if you are the one who asked about Muay Boran but I posted the only video of it I could find. But they speak in Thai so it’s a little harder to comprehend. But I think Muay Boran, which had styles by region, may be the oldest at about 600 years old. Apparently it is still taught but in few areas.
      Also a little word of warning to all. If you come to Thailand to study any of their arts be careful. Some schools will treat you like a friend and some will use you for a punching bag and then send you packing! And some have really bad equipment. I got in the ring of one school and the flooring started to break through! And the bags and overall condition was awful! Go to the USMTA (United States Muay Thai Association) website. The should still have the WMTA or World Muay Thai Association link. Bangkok has a phenomenal school called the Bodhai Sawan but Bangkok is really polluted air wise.
      As to bar bouncers I used to train ours. The last thing a bar wants is punching and kicking. They do not want patrons with marks on them. You need people that can calm things down and not escalate them and for that they need confidence!

  700. What kind of fist do you think he was using? I have my ideas… ????

  701. Who and in which example? This thing is really long! We have discussed like 5 fist variations!

  702. Blake Griffin hurt in fight with member of team’s equipment staff http://es.pn/1OVSIUT
     -via ESPN http://es.pn/app

    This example. Sorry, forgot to add link last time.

  703. Robert,
    In your opinion what are the minimal essentials needed for a security/bodyguard/high level bouncer?
    As for GSP he and one of his trainers put out a DVD home fitness program called Rushfit.
    I checked it out the last two days.
    Not bad, but a little light on strength work.
    P90X is a pretty decent regiment that could be an asset to Martial Arts and self defense training.
    Only issue it’s a 6 day 1 hour per workout commitment and doesn’t leave a lot of time for technical skills training.
    I also went to the archives and found an article on Don Buck a West Coast, highly ranked black belt.
    Ever hear of him?
    From what I read he was another guy who could handle business on the street.
    Through I’d go to the source for accuracy.

  704. Don Buck rings a bell but I do not remember exactly from where.
    To me to be a bouncer there are several essentials. One is size. You need people that can muscle people out of a bar without hurting them with kicks and punches, unless they have to. Many bars have CCTV and that may not tell the whole story. They have to be at a certain level of fitness. No drinking/drugging on the job. They have to be reasonably intelligent (I like college kids as bouncers). A decent talker/negotiator to avoid conflict and not start fights. And somebody who does not use the bar or club as a dating service. So to me a bouncer should be a minimum of say 5″10″ and 185 pounds. But I prefer 6’0″ and 200 or bigger. But you have to look at the whole package. Also taller people see more and can survey a crowded bar or club better, they can see the problems ahead of time. At one club I was the smallest guy on the floor at 6’0″ and 225!
    I have been looking at 2 Brits named Lee Morrison and I think Scott Morris. Lee Morrison looks rough and does combatives. He has trained with Vunak and a lot of street types. Very no nonsense. Morris started in Goju ryu but added a lot of elements and is supposed to be really good. I looked at some of his video stuff and it was very realistic. Lee Morrison is how to fight in a phone booth with 4 guys and maybe win! And how to end it right now!
    As I look at these TMA videos one of my main problems is they spend zero time in the clinch. 20% of your training should be in the clinch! And that is a realistic training drill that is all give and take and really builds power and endurance. Bennnny Urquidez used to have me or other bigger guys put him in the clinch to build his strength! He felt if he could defeat the big guys the ones his size would be easier.
    I will see you in the summer or fall!

  705. I just looked Don Buck up. Now I remember where I heard about him- the guy who built our pool when we were kids, I was 8 years old, He was a former UDT for the US Navy. He told us about Don Buck.
    He told us some wild stories so my dad had him checked out by talking to the guy who referred him to us. My dad thought the guy was totally full of shit! He assured my dad he was telling us the watered down versions as he had done stuff you would not be able to talk about. And apparently had a chest full of medals. He had told me about Don Buck as one of the baddest boys on the block. 70 fights in Navy boxing and lost 1. And he lied and went in at 16! So he was #1 in the physical end and really smart so he was a Navy commando!
    So if he, Don Buck, was impressing a board certified UDT bad ass I am sure he was the real deal! And our pool guy was I believe 5th. dan in judo and boxed.
    Some people talk shit about Jesse Ventura and say “He wasn’t a SEAL, he was UDT.” So that’s a SEAL without all the technical support and high tech communications gear. A guy who runs a SEAL type training program and is a former SEAL called the UDTs “pipe swinging bad asses!”
    So Don Buck would be a very rough guy. I will do some more research.
    I have been watching some Freddie Roach videos. He’s a quirky guy, but I really like him. And I really like Teddy Atlas. They are both so no nonsense in their approaches.
    Take a look at the Teddy Atlas “meltdown.” He went ballistic during a fight as an announcer. He basically said “I am so sick of seeing guys train their hearts out and lose on decisions due to people making decisions that have never thrown or taken a punch in their life.” I feel that way about a few fights I have seen! Felix Trinidad fights- Pernell “Sweet Pea” Whitaker beat him twice and they gave it to Trinidad and Oscar De La Hoya beat him and they gave it to Trinidad as I remember it.
    But to me a guy who was so robbed was Ken Norton. He beat Ali in New York and in San Diego and they gave it to Ali.At the second one Norton was actually a little bit in tears due to the frustration!

  706. Libby,

    https://youtu.be/YZVJ755AV1w

    Wasn’t looking for this. Honestly only watched the first 52 seconds of it. Vertical vs Horizontal distance.

  707. Libby,
    I agree for the most part about the bouncer thing. Typically size scares off situations from happening, but it also encourages it sometimes. Also the type of club/lounge environment may not need only giants on the floor. There are things that a smaller(not teeny) bouncer can do better. Some things are just perceptually. Good cop/bad cop type of thing. They can also sometimes get to a position faster or get to a post/call faster through a crowd than a big guy sometimes.
    It is horrible to see a small bouncer who’s all bark and no bite(or work with them.) I’ve had to push them out of the way (managers included) if they were just a waste of space during a situation. If someone smaller is in the mix they better add an edge to the team and be able to do something if a situations pops off. Poor decision making, slow, fragile and unable to protect themselves is no good for bouncing. I’ve been in situations where my goon co workers wouldn’t jump in something and I had to be the first to respond. But I didn’t care as long as they helped clean up after or follow me. That’s just teamwork. But yes, generally big guys fill these positions better. They can see better and have the muscle to deal with situations or just simply scare people from doing something stupid.

    Yes, clinch work is necessary for self defense. Strikes/kazushi/tai sabaki/throws are necessary components to go through. If you get grabbed and get scared, you’re in trouble. Close quarter combat includes the clinch range. Sometimes martial arts practice doesn’t get into it enough.

    • I feel it would be rare when the smaller guy gives an edge unless he is a great negotiator and can get things calmed down. But when the tequila and drugs get going give me the big boys as logic means little to a guy on some coke and alcohol or meth. I need people that can part the crowd and get in there fast. And when you have several big guys as a team it can calm guys down quickly. But you know one of the problems that is so hard to deal with is a woman with a big mouth that instigates! They are a lose-lose situation! You cannot muscle them as the guys get agitated and the weak boyfriend may do something to please her! Sometimes they are more trouble than the men!

  708. I need to watch the whole thing. I just skimmed it quickly bit liked it!

  709. Scored 2 tixs to UFC 1/30 Prudential Center in Newark NJ tomorrow.
    Was in NYC visiting cousin and was able to get a two for one cage side deal.
    I’ll be wearing a silver/gray Armani suit, lavender shirt and yellow tie.
    Was told Zito was given his free ticket as usual.
    Might take some backstage pics and post a few.
    Rumble Johnson vs. Ryan Bader good match up.

  710. You will be hard to miss! You did this to make me jealous 🙂 We can barely get UFC or Pride here due to the weird censorship laws on the Internet!
    ENJOY IT!

  711. Maybe you get a chance to catch one when you come to the states.
    It’s 12:44 PM here.
    Getting ready to drive over as the prelims start at 3:30.
    Figure my best shot for pics will be early.
    Thanks, I figure I needed to wear something to make me stand out and give the impression that I had a few bucks even though I only have enough to cover a few beers and a hot dog :—-)

  712. Had a decent time.
    Fights could have been more exciting.
    Rumble took care of business very quickly.
    UFC trying to break into NYC market, but up against a brick wall.
    Don’t see why the city won’t sanction MMA.
    Had an event in Buffalo 1995 and plenty of mixed fights way back in the 70’s.
    On another note maybe there are some athletic kenpo guys willing and able to compete in the cage.
    Would sure do a lot to help a lagging art gain some respect.

    • I think the boxing clan there is afraid of MMA. It has really cut into their share. And kids coming up are more MMA oriented now. And video games have been MMA like for a long time. And when I think boxing I think of New York and Philadelphia. Philly had Kronk and NY had a ton of trainers. LA has it’s share though too!
      It may sound like a funny analogy but tennis was so boring on TV. But when Jimmy Connors straddled his racket and humped it at Wimbledon tennis got edgy! People used words like “fuck” in front of the Queen of England. And you had McEnroe. And I remember when Ilya “Nasty” Nastassie called Arthur Ashe a nigger at Wimbledon- that was way too far and way too classless! But he had to publicly apologize and gave Ashe roses while on one knee! Now it had some attitude and was no longer PC.
      To me MMA has that edgy feel. Chuck Zito and Tank Abbott, and if it wasn’t for the word “fuck” Rampage Jackson wouldn’t have a vocabulary! I have seen Tank with people at the fights that I think were Hells Angels. So MMA is hear to stay! And women’s boxing never really took off. Look at Rousey! But being a guy when I think of female boxing I always revert to Mia St. John- what a beauty!

  713. Your the man!
    Nobody, me included on this forum knows more about ALL aspects of the arts, fighting(MMA/boxing), and the business end of things than Mr. Libby.
    Mia St. John still looks great and she’s in her 50’s!
    She was a good boxer.
    Another one that could fight and held titles in different combat sports was Bonnie “the cobra” Cannino.
    Cut into boxing’s share is right on.
    Even Bob Arum’s Top Rank took some marketing lessons from the UFC and started to enhance their promotions with lights, music, and beautiful girls.
    I believe that Don King could have been a very good “crossover” promoter coming from boxing to MMA.
    Regardless of what is written about King, he paid most his fighters more than other promoters, and had some experience with promoting Martial Arts back in the 70’s.
    Unfortunately, the man is well into his 80’s and has started to slow down with age.
    Most of the media has given King a bad rap because of his past.
    What they should be writing about is how generous King is and how when the Deerfield Beach Fire Dept needed trucks and equipment he donated $250K.
    And he does it with minimal fanfare.
    Unless it’s a top fight promotion, most boxing cards have a lack luster feel to them compared to the UFC.
    IF boxing wants to survive, the powers that be should work with Dana White and the UFC and promote that challenge fight they were hyping a while back.
    Remember now heavyweight champ Tyson Fury challenging former UFC champ Cain Velasquez?
    Fury was really hammering Cain in the media.
    Truth is that Fury might just be big and young enough to beat the UFC champ just with his stand up skills.
    Fury has the mentality too.
    He BELIEVES that all he has to do is land one or two shots.
    Based on the level of stand up/striking skills that even the best MMA fighters have, it may be true.
    WHen James Toney got beat by Randy Couture he was at many disadvantages.
    He was not a natural heavyweight, he didn’t like to train and had been winning boxing matches on his experience and defensive skill.
    And, quite honestly his style of boxing, like Mayweather is not suited for the intensity and pace of an MMA fight.
    ANother factor was that Toney had pissed off Dana White and he got what he wanted but was given a grappler, rather than a striker as an opponent.
    Had Toney fought Liddell, Griffin, or some other top ranked MMA guy who was more of a striker he would have been successful.
    He’s luck that Randy took it easy once he mounted him because Randy could have dropped elbows and hammer strikes and smashed Toney up to the point that his boxing career would have been over.
    I think the World is ready for a fight between the best in MMA against the best boxer.
    Both young and in their primes, going for broke to make a final statement for their sports.
    Besides Fury their has to be top contenders or champions in other divisions, preferably undefeated willing to step up and save their sport if the $$ is right.
    Any feedback on the above welcome.

  714. KEnpo J, we have been quite polite lately. But things on the Internet like LOL and “fanboys: are really insulting!

  715. Not important, but thought I’d post.
    Received call a well knowm MMA competitor wants me to consider fine tuning his striking.
    I was about to agree, and his rep said that I should comp my training services because the opportunity itself was worth more than monetary compensation.
    I thought to myself, if I do it for him and get other training gigs, they might also ask for free help.
    Against my better judgement I politely declined.

  716. Good idea! If you do the time you get paid. I’ve been helping a kid here for free but he’s really small and has been getting bullied. He is out neighbor’s grandson and he’s a good kid.
    I have trained some people for free but as a charity thing. I once trained some nuns as there had been some attacks against the nuns. It was sort of weird wrestling with a nun! But they enjoyed it. I taught them just pure filth and survival!
    A church asked me to train some women for free due to some attacks in our area but then decided not to as I might inflict “Satanic Buddhist ideas” on them. I guess getting raped was less Satanic to them! It really blew me away! I wanted to help and asked then “what is Satanic about a finger jab to the eyes?” I also told them I had no intention of even discussing religion with them- strange! And I was going to do it for free. I showed them a curriculum I had worked out and not a word of Eastern philosophy. But there are websites they say all MA is really Satanic but the people do not really realize it as Satan is deceptive. I say some are cults but not Satan worshipers!

  717. Good people do what you have done, donate free instruction for people that need it the most.
    I have done a little in the past, when I worked with Seniors at a housing complex.
    If I were younger and looking to etch out a career training pros I might do a training prep assignment or two free to try and build up a reputable history.
    Too many other things happening and putting in several hours a day getting a pro ready to compete for free, just didn’t see the light at the end of the tunnel.
    Looks like you retired Joshua from the site.
    Have you noticed how the “theme” has mellowed out a bit?

    • You miss me now.

      There has been little to talk about and I guess someone was offended with “fanboys” word usage. Never called anyone that, but guess it hit someone. No comment needed.

      We talked a lil security and bouncing and I think we all are on the same page with that.

      Steven Thompson(Kenpo/karate/point fighter guy) just whooped the pants off Johnny Hendricks. You wanted to see someone from Karate come in the octagon? There you go. Side kicks, horse stance fighting, hands down, jump kicks, in and out striking, blitzing: all there. Johnny Hendricks is extremely dangerous and Thompson took care of him easily. Anyone can be very good with their craft. Was amazed to hear that Roy Nelson is a Kung Fun black sash! Had no idea about that. Cool stuff.

      But to have more debates and meaningful discussions I think it’d be good/cool if there was some displays of favorite concepts or whatever. So Monfongo, please feel free to post a clip and you can have me more involved again. I also have been very busy with kids, school and taking care of business en mi cuarto ; )

      • At least you are never boring! I just watched as much Scott “Wonderboy” Thompson stuff as I could get here in Thailand.
        Okay- the kid is really talented. Does he use Karate and a side horse? Yes and no. He does deliver kicks from the side horse as in his spinning rear kick and side kick, and sometimes his jab. But for leg kicks he squares up more some of the time. And once he closes the gap his Karate goes out the window. He is just a boxer when he gets in close. There are no inward, upward, outward, or downward blocks. And that is why I say the Kenpo and TMA techniques do not work as taught! You cannot start all your techniques off of those blocks and then when it comes to real combat you can never use them. Do you see my point?
        So in the ring I would put him at about 20% to 30% Karate and the rest is Muay Thai, boxing, and BJJ. Lyoto Machida uses more TMA than Thompson.
        My prediction is that eventually Thompson will get annihilated unless he keeps his hands up more and his elbows in tighter. That is what happened to Chuck Liddel as he used to always drop that front hand. If I were coaching a guy to fight Thompson I would train him a lot on upper cuts to the head as Thompson keeps his hands down and slightly out when in tight and he picks his head up too much so his chin is wide open! I also feel Thompson is susceptible to a “shovel punch” to the liver or ribs on left side due to his elbow positioning!. But the kid is really a good fighter!

      • I also want to clarify another thing with you about Karate. Can it work? Yes, but rarely. But there are several reasons why it has changed so much. When I was a kid I was what you might call a “rough kid.” I was not mean and not a criminal, but I ran with a somewhat tough group, but really only a few of us were fighters.
        One of the reasons I won fights was because nobody had seen what I did before. And some were shocked that I could kick somebody in the head. I was always very flexible for a bigger guy. I could about do full splits both way and could put my ankles behind my head. I remember one fight where I faked a back knuckle and got the guy with a spinning reverse kick and then a reverse punch as I planted. He had never seen such a thing, and not even on TV. And I was always a body puncher and many always expected head shots. So the lack of seeing it made it work.
        But also we had our Lyoto Machidas and Scott Thompsons. Two that come to mind are Scott Loring and Steve Sanders. They used classical Karate. And remember that we had very few techniques and focused on sparring. I think Scott knew like 4 forms and could not say as to Steve Sanders Muhammad. But they were gifted. Now many may have a hard time with this but Scott at 210 was as fast or even faster than Steve at 155. There basics were so good that they nailed people and there combinations were solid. And they both used head movement and fakes.
        If you can find an old copy of Black Belt magazine that came out in 1967 (it has a Japanese archer on horseback) Joe Lewis ranked his top 10. He ranked Scott #2. Now Scott had fought in only a few tournaments. Why was he ranked so high by Lewis? Because they met one tine and Scott slaughtered him. Scott kept running him out of the ring but Lewis got him in overtime with a reverse punch as he was going out- that was the politics of the day. We had a film of Steve fighting Chuck Norris. We put it in a hand cranked film machine and watched it in slow motion and we could go back and forth- Steve won and it was no contest.
        So the point to this is that Karate was different then. And the lack of familiarity gave you an edge. But now everybody has seen it and so they are not as surprised by it.
        Also there was a pivotal event in I believe 1973 (I could be wrong on the date but I am close). A student of Bill Ryusaki hit a kid in the face with a heel palm strike. It was just a basic high school fight. But the kid that got hit took major damage. Apparently he got a busted nose and needed reconstructive surgery for the bones in his face. So they sued Bill on the grounds that “you taught him so you are responsible for his actions.” It was bullshit suit but it sent a shock wave through the schools. Insurance companies took notice. So things like mouth pieces, head gear, and padded feet and hands came into vogue. And in many schools reality went with it. So the schools either really lightened up on contact or they went the kick boxing/PKA route like Benny’s school.
        I feel that splintering did harm to Karate to this day. I have seen so many that think that there non-contact tournaments are reality and you can just change your distance at will. A full contact fighter can shorten and do “kiss contact”, but a non-contact fighter cannot lengthen and go to full contact. I will end with this example. When I was like 8 years old I played baseball. I remember the first time I got a hit I forgot to run as I had never done it before in a real game! I was thrown out but I was so confused by a real it and happy. Well that is what happens to many TMA people. If they ever actually hit somebody they wouldn’t know what to do next!

    • Yes I have, and I have had some good analytical stuff with Kenpo J. I hope he is not pissed from my last comment but that LOL thing and “fanboy” drives me NUTS!
      So I just read Kenpo J’s last post good stuff. Yes, Karate can work but it is so rare and eventually they get killed! He mentions a Steven Thompson. Well that hands down and side horse stuff only lasts a short time. Lyoto Machida got away with it for a long time due to his freaky abilities. But it later cost him. I always feel there is a reason that coaches say “keep your hands up.”
      I will check out Kenpo J’s stuff. He is at least always interesting and thinks!

  718. I feel like you sometimes get stuck on the fence with your true opinions. Like for whatever reason you will do anything to discredit karate and traditional martial arts practice just so you don’t go back on things you have said in the past. Slowly you seem to be seeing TMA/Karate is good and fine also with exceptions. Nothing wrong with that.

    I completely disagree with you in your analysis of Thompson: 20-30% karate? It’s not just the striking concepts he uses, but the footwork and timing to set up the striking as well as stances and switch stances. There’s very little to compare it with boxing, Muay Thai and other various arts. But yes, he’s an MMA athlete and must learn and be familiar with boxing, Muay Thai and wrestling(the most common tools of the trade.) Its being different that gives him an edge often. His usage of point fighting, karate/sport karate footwork and combinations is extremely different than what most MMA athletes do. He’s unique in the MMA realm.

    I also don’t like how you label every karateka as getting beat eventually(not verbatim) talk. It’s a sport; everyone loses, but not everyone wins. Machida has a very good record, but yes he has lost some. It’s a all apart of the trade. Every boxer, Muay Thai guy, bjj player, wrestler also loses. And its not fair for you to call Machida freakish and disregard the craft he has become exceptional in and trained in his entire life. He is an athlete. Everyone in the ufc is an athlete(freakish). Machida is not taller, heavier, faster or anything over most of his competition. He’s different with his karate skillset and has developed great timing and basics with his art/style(s). It’s unfair to say almost any athlete in mma wins because they’re “freakish”; it’s dedication and hardwork in their styles and systems.

    Jon Jones can be classified more of a freak especially in his division where he has always had the reach advantage, usually much taller, combined with great skill sets. He has learned how to use his “freakish” size advantage for his advantage to win. Even his elbow strikes are rare. There is a cool Sports Science piece on how his body is able torque so much with his elbow strikes. But notice when he fought Gustafson (freakish advantage) was canceled out. He had an extremely tough fight that many thought he actually lost.

    Whenever you are training someone to compete against a VERY good athlete and they have great skill sets: it takes much more than a couple strikes or counters to figure them out. What if the uppercut you prescribe to beat Thompson is telegraphed or just misses; a good fighter remembers and designs his follow up attacks to avoid the potential blast coming again, right? I think it’s called intelligent fighting. An intelligent and athletic fighter is much harder to overcome than just an athletic fighter. Thompson is the intelligent and athletic fighter. If you trained the uppercut all day and it fails in the match: you got a major problem on your hands.

    Thompson in the interview I posted talks about the cross training. Like: do mma guys try to learn karate? And do karate guys learn boxing and such? He goes on to say it something like this: karate guys can learn the boxing and Muay Thai because many of the movements are in Karate systems already. But the cross training for MMA/boxers/Muay Thai fighters is more difficult to pickup the karate or point fighting. It’s just very different. High level karate or point fighting is tricky and all about movement and timing.

    Steve Sanders(Mohammad) is BKF. The IKCA system is very close to the BKF. GM Chuck Sullivan(did you know?) is also the senior grand master of BKF? He was Sijo Steve Mohammad’s instructor.

    Old school Karate was strong, clean, different and effective. Insurance, lawsuits, pads and just soft American culture messed up a lot of what is great in Karate being taught to the public. However, it is very much still alive. Steve Mohammad, Robert Temple, Chuck Sullivan & Vic LeRoux, Greg Payne, Mas Oyama, Joko Ninomiya are some of the Karate favorites for me and I try to emulate them in different ways. There are many more. Karate is fascinating, effective and fun. There is no epidemic of Karate practitioners getting their teeth knocked in.

    I could go on writing, but I’m tired and got studying to do.

    • Do not forget one important aspect. You get to see all this stuff and I do not as Thailand blocks a lot of stuff. And sometime I try to access a site and they will not allow entry from SE Asia due to spamming and hacking. So I do not get the benefit of the visuals for analysis- I get little clips of fights if I am lucky. I saw about 7 minutes of Thompson so that is where my analysis came from.
      As to Steve and Chuck that’s apples and oranges. Chuck fought out of a cross stance and Steve more traditionally. And Chuck was never at Steve’s level for speed, timing, combinations, and power. His cross stance took away a lot of his weapons and he spin off of things a lot! I trained for awhile at the BKF. There stuff is very different than Chuck’s as far as sparring. Vic Leroux fought more like a BKF guy. A really rough guy out of Chuck’s line was a guy named Carl Schalio. Really great at sweeping people. Stocky and powerful and could hit.
      It is not that guys get beat just because of Karate, and that was not my implication. That get beaten because they drop their hands and eventually you will get clocked. Machida is a great fighter but if his boxing were better he’d have had a better record. Remember that’s what I said about Liddel- he kept that front hand down and it cost him!
      An intelligent fighter is always rougher to fight as they can adapt midstream.
      And intelligent can read people better. Steve Sanders Muhammad was intelligent as was Scott Loring.
      But you have to remember that although it was Ed Parker’s Kenpo Karate the 3 main schools were all different. Santa Monica and Crenshaw were more alike but Pasadena was more technically oriented and into the forms. Crenshaw and Santa Monica hardly ever did forms- we fought! But Pasadena did turn out Frank Trejo and some say Mike Pick is really good but I have never seen him move. But Santa Monica turned out Larry Hartsell, although far more of a JKD and grappling guy, Scott Loring, Dan Inosanto, and others. We were more street oriented. Norm Pattiz would turn the inside lights off and put furniture on the mats and have us fight like that. We got the light from the outside street lights so it was like a fight in a bar or parking lot! And we used the furniture to get away as sometimes it was 2 on 1! That made you think!
      But I think Machida is very fast, but he does do some interesting footwork. But my main gripe with TMA is looking at it on the macro level and not the micro level. Way too many people that should not be training people and way too many people getting conned.
      But once it gets tight you had better have some boxing skills or you will get nailed. To me Thompson is a boxer in close. His speed and skills are letting him get away with some technical errors that may cost him later.
      But when I look t GKR, Keichu Do, ATA, and other “karate in a can” styles I could puke!
      But on the macro level for the street a boxer, PFS, or JKD stylist will murder most all of the TMA guys as they do not get hit!
      In my next video I am going to show some really silly things that all TMA styles do like ridge hands and finger pokes to the body. SOme will really mess your hands up!

      • Carl Schlayo. I am honored to know Carl, call him a friend and he recorded my black belt test with GM Vic LeRoux. That lineage you speak of Chuck, Vic, Carl, Danny, Steve: that’s my lineage.

        Anyone can get caught even with their hands up.

        You can look at things from a macro view, but that doesn’t tell the whole story, right?

        I disagree with the JKD/PFS thing. I notice JKD and PFS guys have some strong tendancies with the lead hand and a couple leg checks and kicks. An intelligent martial artist can catch on and counter with varieties of movements and strikes. They have tools to combat. It’s all dependent on who. By the way, I may be guilty of generalizing the JKD sparring/fighting, but that is what I tend to see. Lead hand strikes, leg checks, roundhound kicks with top of foot , straight blast. I see too many guys copying each other. BKF nowadays I think is similarly guilty of making their students have same tendencies. I love BKF, but many students try to always perfectly mimic Steve Mohammad. They’re not him and never will be. Our arts is our expression of self. We should never be trying to be a carbon copy or clone of someone else even our instructor.

  719. On the PFS/JKD thing he folks I worked with has a lot of boxing and Kali. I use destructions a lot to save my hands and they are fight enders. A good elbow to he hand, biceps, or shoulder can stop a guy for awhile, but the hand ones are devastating.
    Carl used to be a bouncer/doorman at at the Aquarius Theater on Sunset Blvd along with Tom Howard and some Kenpo guys. So they would let me in the back for free with a 1 friend limit. You had to be 18 but no booze- I was 16. I saw some great acts there like Electric Flag. Really a fun place. I was fighting at the Internationals. So they were having me weigh in and I told Carl “I’m a heavyweight. Why should I weigh in?” So as I got on the scale he popped me in the cup and said “glad to see you’re prepared.”
    But isn’t Steve like 75 now? He looks good for his age. But I have had a feud with Ron Chapel for awhile. I almost decked him at a tournament. He was supposed to be refereeing and was watching girls with another ref and talking tits. So I stopped the match as one was a student of mine and told him to do his job. And that “sub-level 4 Kenpo” is a crock of shit. He has been asked straight up where his degrees are from- he will not answer as it is “personal.” He has a make believe PhD from a diploma mill in an imaginary filed. That is the stuff I am talking about. I showed some of his neurological to 2 doctors and they were laughing. His idea of if you hit then in a specific order it sends like a shock wave but out of order it doesn’t. They said it was total nonsense. And why lie about a PhD and call yourself “doctor.” And Ed only passed this on to him. Nobody had ever heard of it to the best my knowledge.
    But if you look at EPAK now it is too ornate and many of the terms are pseudoscience. And so many of the techniques are failures. They just do not work as taught and some are just flat out silly like Twist of Fate. I have videos of critiques up under Bad kenpo techniques. Some people really hate me for them but some like them and feel they are accurate. But when I get people telling me “we do bareknuckle full contact every Friday” I have to laugh. I know teh school they are at and used to teach there so I know better. What really hurt Kenpo’s credibility was stories like Ed beating 5 guys with knives and clubs. Really? And things like the side head lock technique from Short Form 3 is a joke. Bart Vale even does a piece on that one. And the “grafting concept” will not happen. You cannot just splice pieces together like that
    So as you have been at this awhile how do you feel about the cult aspects I have brought up?. What’s your take on Kenpo now vs the 1960s?
    But to me EPAk is the epitome of “the student has surpassed the master.” I feel there is a list Kenpo guys that would have cleaned Ed’s clock on cardiovascular alone!. I Really feel the guy was all hype and the videos of him seem to prove that.

  720. Wonderboy Thompson looks to be the next major MAN superstar.
    Kid has the “it” factor.
    I have to agree that he took care of “Big Rig” by the use of karate techniques for the most part.
    Also agree that uppercuts added to his arsenal will up his game.
    We will have to see how he does if and when he’s taken into the trenches and is faced with the adversity of getting hit, busted up and having to find the intestinal fortitude to do his job.
    My opinion is that having handled a very dangerous former champion with sledgehammer punching and World Class wrestling as easily as he did Thompson will be fine.
    My prediction for the next UFC mega superfight.
    If McGregor wins his next fight and adds another title and Thompson wins his share they will meet at a cacthweight fight.
    That fight makes sesnse and would sell.

  721. Geez Monfongo, you are making me jealous! You get to go to a ringside seat in your Armani and see all this stuff! I found out from a friend that they block it here to not compete with the Muay Thai matches.
    I have never seen this McGregor guy do anything but I hear he’s really good and a little nuts, but in a good way!
    And also, for KenpoJ, remember that I never said all TMA people cannot fight. I said 90% from the get go! But they usually have something behind it like football or another aggressive sport! So they have that toughness!
    So Monfongo what is the MA scene like where you are? Here we have one TKD school and nobody will work with me due to my size. BUt I occasionally hook up with tourists. I was training some cops for awhile from a drug unit. They were all white boys doing stuff on heroin and meth! Methamphetamine is HUGE up here and a damn epidemic!
    Maybe some kind soul would post some here for me to see? They have some newspapers that are totally blocked. My Brit buddy gets the Guardian from England and they black out parts they do not like like anything bad about Thailand or lingerie ads that are too racy! But there’s hookers everywhere!

    • 90% is still a very high percentage and not accurate at all. The 90% you speak of is only your opinion from what you have seen. But let’s be real: most people cannot and do not want to REALLY learn self defense. So many are not taught all the nuances to become tough and really be able to handle almost anything. Teaching a mass is not easy. I know not every JKD/PFS guy/gal is a major bad ass either. That’s not a knock on it, just reality.

      Kenpo 60s and now is difficult for me talk about. I didn’t live in it, but is the form in which I train in now(60s Kenpo). I don’t know present day Kenpo. I see, I understand it. I like another take on it, but respect it still. There are subtle differences I prefer. I train a more bare, raw form of Kenpo and as well a more pre world war 2 form of Judo. I kind of only know older raw forms of these arts. But I do train with others in different styles/arts/Systems. Good strong practitioners exist in all of them. I don’t think there’s any cults. Just people who enjoy training differently for different reasons. We’re humans so that’s nothing new.

      A fight between McGregor and Thompson would be a lot of fun! Similar, but very different in personalities. Both are believers in precision and timing. Thompson is probably even more creative. That could be a very tough match up for McGregor. I have a hard time imagining it. Has there ever been 2 karate type fighters(or bouncy precise fighters) against each other in the UFC? Like 2 Machidas fighting each other. Thompson is not nearly as popular. I had no idea about him until this thread inspired me to look up Kenpo/karate fighters in MMA and was just by chance he was fighting this weekend.

      McGregor will have to get through Dos Anjos. I think he can.But can he stay clear of the power and take down+GNP of Dos Anjos? He’s very similar to Aldo, but greater takedown ability. McGregor is moving up in weight for first time which doesn’t help either. Thompson is quite a bit bigger I believe. That’s the 205 division right? McGregor is 145 usually fighting right? Don’t think that dream match up can ever materialize. But it would be very interesting.

      I have a question to post later I would like to hear different takes on. Have a good day.

  722. Robert, it was an old suit that I dry cleaned and the shirt and tie was from Walmart :–)
    Have you though of doing bodyguard work over there?
    What about working as a tourist chaperone?
    You have the background and expertise.
    Robert, the MA scene here has a few traditional/commercial schools realizing that they have to market themselves as training in MMA in order to retain students and compete with a few schools that actually train MMA fighters.
    I don’t want to drop names but a very well know chain used to advertise as Taekwondo-self-defense.
    Now it’s Taekwondo-MMA.
    Mcgregor is an outstanding, well rounded fighter.
    Had a good amateur boxing background in Ireland, competed at the top of the amateur level.
    Outstanding kicks and a pretty good ground game.
    He sells tickets because he does a lot of “trash talking” and so far has been able to back it up.
    Even went on National TV awhile back(Jimmy Kimell I believe)and said he would destroy Floyd Mayweather in the cage/street, and would beat him in a straight up boxing match too.
    Could he beat Floyd at his game…maybe.
    His size, reach, athleticism, power, and conditioning would force Floyd to fight.
    At Floyd’s age I don’t know if his legs would and body would stand up to Mcgregor’s constant pressure and non stop punching.
    If Floyd played defense and went to the ropes Mcgregor would work on him for 3 minutes of every round.
    He won’t allow Floyd to breath.
    I don’t see Floyd hurting McGregor and he would need every bit of his boxing expertise to pull off a decision win.
    So, I believe that Mcgregor might be able to handle Floyd in boxing at this stage in Floyd’s career.
    Dos Anjos is a big test, but if Connor passes it there’s talk about him trying to take titles in higher weight divisions.
    He has the height to add more functional weight, but if he goes up too high he has to deal with strength, punching power, and guys whose chin can handle his “striking”.
    Technique wise Mcgregor matches up well with any champion in the UFC.
    With all respect, I see McGregor and Thompson fighting in the near future.
    If they both keep winning and each has a title, the UFC will make it happen.
    And when it happens if I had to go out on a limb and make a prediction I give a slight edge to Thompson.
    One thing for sure this will be a karate man’s stand up dream fight.
    The UFC has been very good about giving their fans the fights they want to see.
    And, they are not protecting any fighters, unlike what happens in boxing.
    Eddie Alvarez the Bellator lightweight champ made his UFC debut and the UFC fed him to Cowboy Cerrone(Former champ) right off the bat.
    No tune up or easy fight to get his feet wet in the octagon.
    I guess they feel like this…you want to bring your champion skills from a competing organization to the UFC?
    Well, here’s your welcome.

    • Man I wish we got that over here! But the UFC does not seem to play favorites or have people dodge fights! I would like to see ANYBODY beat Mayweather as he is a jerk!
      I am too slow and old to be a bodyguard! But I am training again as far as my lower body. My doctor cleared me so I am just doing weights, flexibility, and hiking hills. I will start kicking when my back is a little better and my legs are stronger. It feels so good to be moving again!
      If I did anything MA wise I would come back and open a school. It would not be MMA but close. I would be doing more weapons and pure street fighting. It would be more like Vunak’s PFS style of teaching. I would also go after the female market a lot as I have worked with a lot of females, many of whom were rape or beating victims.

  723. I am not sure of their weights. But a lot of people keep talking about 225 pound class and I agree.
    I have seen so many bad MA practitioners that it is scary. I used to just go and watch and some of it shocked me. I saw a Kenpo black belt explain for 15 minutes how the inward block damages the radial nerve. So he would take each student and grab the arm at the forearm and then slam his forearm with the bony part and they were all like “WOW! That hurts.” Yes, I know that people do that in fights for me all the time. I have never hurt my radial other than when I got it smacked by a stick doing Filipino stuff. I know of a school in the 70s where these two guys were sparring and had on boxing gloves, kendo armor for the chest, and head gear, but no contact. So two black belts I know asked them why all the gear when you are not making contact? So one of them said “you obviously do not understand our art. One slip up could be fatal.” And I have heard lines like that on so many movies.
    But I feel the 90% is accurate due to the lack of contact and being used to it. And there is another issue. I call it the Superman complex. Your gi is your superman suit. And without it you cannot function. And I have heard students say this. The gi also allows for things you cannot do in the street like grabbing the sleeve and punching. I feel that even judoka and BJJ people should spend a lot of time out of the gi I would have my females wear a t-shirt underneath as we took the tops off all the time.
    But to me the biggest critical flaw in TMA is the blocking. It is just too slow. Even Lyoto Machida does not do say a classical inward block to a reverse punch or an outward to a chop like in one of the yellow belt techniques for Kenpo. I also have seen way too many TMA people that cannot handle hooks and upper cuts effectively. And as I mentioned in one of my videos so many of these people are wide open to be head butted!
    I have seen some schools where they literally did not have one decent fighter who could hold his own in the street. BUt I have watched lots of TMA people say things that I am like WTF!!! They are totally wrong. And as I feel I have shown if you are going to do grab techniques at least know how to do the grab and what it’s for.
    Did you know Big John Henderson or George Quinones? If you talk to old school people ask about Scott Loring. They still tell tales about him and I saw the guy move. He was scary fast for a guy his size and flexible. We had a rule at the Santa Monica school- Larry Hartsell and Scott were not allowed to spar. It was never written down anywhere but it was better for them not to go at it. Larry probably hit a little harder but Scott was faster.
    How old are you? I would guess 50s or 60s from your references.
    I will tell you a BKF story. I went to the school to train. So as I was walking in some black kid slammed the door on me. Steve set his ass straight. He grabbed that kid and told him “He is a Kenpo black belt so he gets respect. And racism is not tolerated at this school.” But that’s how Steve was. One of the coolest people I have ever known. When I was green belt I was fighting in Four Seasons Tournament which I think Norris put on. So Steve came over as I was going to get at least 3rd place. He had been watching my matches and he sat down with me and coached me and got me hydrated. That was really nice of him to do!
    Time to hit the hay! It;s 3:38am here!

  724. Mr.Libby, you trained years in Kenpo, you won’t miss those old day’s and I think without it you have missed a lot on your journey. TMA is allways a one way street with the wrong teacher and coach. There are so many styles you can learn a bit of, look left and right. Most peaople won’t learn real streetfighting and you know that. You know a lot about many things, respect, I don’t like talking bad about dead people like you do, your last posts were interesting and you know what you are talking about. There a not to many out there.

  725. Regarding the challenge to find a clip of Ed Parker moving well, see the clip below. I’m agnostic on the tactics, but no denying that he’s really moving that blade.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3x1HAKif-GQ

    *Here is a clip that summarizes the danger of traditional martial arts in general (NSFW)
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fe3na9umxDA

    *Robert, you mentioned in your video that you’ll be apologizing to Tom Bleecker. Before he stormed out of here – because he didn’t like my web-handle and I asked about a piece of art – he accused me of being your sockpuppet because you and I agreed about KK. If you wish, I’m willing to call him to confirm that I’m not you. I will NOT apologize him nor stir up trouble; just confirm that I’m not you.

    *Ron Chapel’s “Ph.D.”, suspicious quotes intentional, is most likely from Martial Science University, which he founded. It’s not a university, it’s a Karate school and any degree they issue should be regarded as less useful than toilet paper. To believe his tale you’d have to believe a litany of absurdities. The most likely origin of the sub-level 4 nonsense is his strong Kung Fu background, particularly the pressure-point strikes based on the same ideas as Chinese accupressure, to EPKK techniques. He didn’t have to go the conman route: he’s a legitimate Kenpo practitioner and could make a living w/o the fraud.

  726. *Regarding the challenge to find a clip of Ed Parker moving well, see the clip below. I’m agnostic on the tactics, but no denying that he’s really moving that blade.
    http://goo.gl/byqdBN

    *Robert, you mentioned in your video that you’ll be apologizing to Tom Bleecker. Before he stormed out of here – because he didn’t like my web-handle and I asked about a piece of art – he accused me of being your sockpuppet because you and I agreed about KK. If you wish, I’m willing to call him to confirm that I’m not you. I will NOT apologize him nor stir up trouble; just confirm that I’m not you.

    *Ron Chapel’s “Ph.D.”, suspicious quotes intentional, is most likely from Martial Science University, which he founded. It’s not a university, it’s a Karate school and any degree they issue should be regarded as less useful than toilet paper. To believe his tale you’d have to believe a litany of absurdities. The most likely origin of the sub-level 4 nonsense is his strong Kung Fu background, particularly the pressure-point strikes based on the same ideas as Chinese accupressuer, to EPKK techniques. He didn’t have to go the conman route: he’s a legitimate Kenpo practitioner and could make a living w/o the fraud.

  727. Question: Do you think TMA teaching and training encourages its practitioners to seek less competition in prize fighting than say: Boxing, Muay Thai, and Greco Wrestling?

  728. To me the knife clip was very short and didn’t show much. It was also predicated on the guy just standing there, but it was just a very short demo. But the hand to hand he showed had some real problems. That little dropping Kenpo loves to shoot to the low abdomen just dos not hurt.
    As you you being me- absolutely not! I can get myself in plenty of trouble with my own mouth and opinions and have never been afraid to say who I am. I have no idea who you are! I would assume you are from the Los Angeles area due to who know but nothing more than that.
    Yeah, Chappel is a clown. I have seen a guy who does “pressure point knockouts” all based on acupuncture points- pure crap!
    As to TMA encouraging people not to go into boxing- I would say “no” as I have never heard that. And Greco-Roman doesn’t pay anything. It is an Olympic sport basically. It has really cool stuff but pays no money that I have ever heard of! But some have metioned the head trauma in boxing.

    • Reread question.

      • Clarify which part you want me to reread? I am exhausted as the doctor just cleared me to start training lower body! After 4 months or more of being a couch potato I an fried!

      • Okay. I found a Spanish site (UFC in Spanish) with several Steven “Wonder Boy” Thompson fights. Luckily I can still understand some Spanish, but I am rusty.
        Outside Thompson is a karate guy, but not entirely. He does fight sideways and uses some definitely Karate style kicking, but not his punching. No back knuckles or Karate strikes Once he closes the gap he is a boxer with BJJ skills. To me the videos prove my points. He never uses a single Karate sty;e block. He NEVER uses anything even close to a Kenpo technique. And he never uses anything from Karate like say an a front hand inward block to a reverse punch. And that is my point! All these things that Kenpo and TMA people spend so much time on just do not work in real time!
        The kid is really talented. He hits hard and is deceptive. But as I said, once the gap is closed he is a stand up boxer. And you will notice that once he closes the gap his back leg comes to the front. It is just slightly off set from the lead leg. You do not see anything like out of say Triggered Salute where the person is totally sideways with these sneaky inward elbows to compound strikes!
        And his punching is boxing punches and not Karate. But he needs to keep his hands up more and his elbows in or somebody will clock him.

  729. Want to check out a real diploma mill “master”?
    Check out Ed Hutchison’s Dragon Kenpo Karate.
    I just viewed his entire video course(a friend bought it at a yard sale for $10.00).
    At least IKCA Kenpo is legit and taught by guys that have an actual background with decades of training.
    The stuff on these videos(white to black belt)is pure poo poo.
    I then went to see what I could find on YOU TUBE and came across some guy, overweight and out of breath teaching some Dragon Kenpo techniques from what looks like his living room.
    Another clip has some chick doing a “soft” form which looks like poorly performed Tai Chi and ballet combined.
    I can’t believe that people had BB certificates from this crap!

  730. Hey Guys!
    Go to YOU TUBE and search “Reginald Hoover” and/or “Dragon Kenpo Karate Consortium International”.
    He has a bunch of videos and you can get good insight into “Dragon Kenpo”.
    I actually feel sorry for this guy.
    BTW, he calls himself a “Red Belt Supreme Master”.
    Look, maybe the guy can fight or defend himself, but what I am seeing looks pretty bad.
    What does everyone else think?
    This “system” originate from Ed Hutchison and I guess guys like Grand Master Hoover earned rank from the original system and maybe added other material.

    • Monfongo- that was painful to watch! I saw the two black guys and then there was some other Dragon Kenpo who did a hair grab technique that was absurd. So EPAK guys said “clutching feathers” would work so much better which is just a goofy of a technique!
      This is why I do the videos!

  731. Robert,
    I dug deeper and on another Martial Arts site, someone questioned Master Hoover and he actually responded by issuing a bare knuckle challenge to that individual.
    Mentioned Washington DC as a possible location and said that his attorney would draw up the paperwork.
    From what I saw in his videos I think he needs to train a little harder, get into fighting shape and screen his opponent before making that type of statement.
    Imagine if the guy he challenged accepted and wound up being some monster like a Tank Abbott?
    I don’t understand why some “masters” post stuff that is going to subject them to extreme ridicule.
    If a guy is not in his prime shape you can still tell that he knows what he’s doing and has trained seriously in the past.
    Happy Birthday Buddy!

    • And HAPPY BIRTHDAY to you!
      I think of the “Kiai Master vs MMA” when I hear that crap. That guy would get killed by almost anybody. But nobody will fight him for free! Even the Kiai Master made that guy the easiest 5k he ever made. From the looks of that guy he doesn’t have 5kI think I will stat calling myself “THE Master of All Things Worth Knowing!” It’s kind of catchy!

  732. So let me understand this discussion, which seems to center around Ed Parker, considered by some an almost mythical figure, who may or may not, have had health issues later in life along with a few personal issues (that everyone has in life); and who mainly are complaining that Ed Parker didn’t teach all the classes in his schools and suggest that his methods aren’t helpful, or effective as a self-defense art?
    But we’re all agreed that Ed Parker managed to connect people within the martial arts to successful careers, and whose promotional skills helped bring the terms Karate and Kung-Fu, to mega levels throughout the United States and the world; whose students have included Marion Bermudez, a female student, who won full contact boxing matches against a golden globe male boxer and was able to fight full contact karate matches with male opponents, who outweighed her by at least a 100 pounds along with the 1000’s of Ed Parker Kenpo martial arts stylists who excelled in tournaments all over the world in the last 45 years?
    It’s beneath any honorable person to go down these kinds of roads very long, and whatever your beef is, I’ll be happy to listen to the facts if you can do it without the poison.
    I am an Ed Parker stylist and I have disarmed 3 gun-wielding criminals before I was a blue belt. I appreciate all styles, have studied a few, and most of these ‘which style is better’ – boil down to the individual and their skills I’ll always believe. I rarely have used a specific Kenpo taught technique in these situations, but I guarantee anyone needing to be efficient at self-defense needs to learn these overall methods, before they can be an artist. Anyone can be a brawler, but few can maintain to going on and becoming a master. Many of the full contact martial artists during their days could be beaten on any given day. And were.
    Does it sound wise or ethical to fight every ‘hired gun’ who wanted to gain a moment of fame? Ed Parker lived and breathed karate, right up until his death, waiting to board a flight as a bodyguard for one of the countless actors he protected. The same man who helped Bruce Lee, another super famous martial artist and whose students include Danny Inasanto, as well as many others who studied Kenpo at some point in their lives. No one can specifically state what the father of American Karate did or did not do, that was so terrible during his lifetime except to say he had some personal issues with a few people or he wasn’t a black belt or the best black belt? The world’s best swordfighter, Musashi Miyamoto’s, didn’t graduate from his school either. And the Grand Master, Yamaguchi, of Gojo Ryu fame was criticized, for his beginning rough forms at one time.
    Don’t forget it was a purple belt student of Ed Parker, who stopped an armed gunman who attempted to kidnap a woman in Phoenix, Arizona in April 1987. His article appeared in the Phoenix Gazette, April 1987: ‘Man risks life to save Woman’.
    Kenpo stylists are taught a competent art of self-defense and health. The have a strong stance, mobility and competence. That is the only legacy that Edward Parker should be remembered for. And I think his Mormon spirituality helped his lasting legacy also. Having personally known upstanding family members who were of this religion, and chose to follow the ideals of caring for others and giving to charity as their main focuses in life, I have no problem overlooking peculiarities in religions, because all religion’s have some. But they tend to have overall less people problems than those who don’t have any religion.
    I firmly believe that each master martial artist wakes up a beginner and white belt each day, looking not to be the toughest of the day, week, month or year, but eternally searching for that complete knowledge of human movement. And being able to save someone during an emergency. Ed Parker’s ‘Kenpo Karate’ is a great place to start from. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3IrtV9v1D9k

  733. Okay- you state ” I have disarmed 3 gun wielding criminals before I was a blue belt.” It is now time for mommy to tuck you in before you have your morning cocoa! You epitomize the type of crap that goes out over the Internet and makes MA laughed at. And do not forget to fold your Spiderman outfit before school!
    Is anybody else’s bullshit meter on?

  734. The video showed how awesomely fast Mr. Parker’s hands were. If you would be willing to pay me $5000.00 dollars (and put your money where your mouth is) if I can prove the above statements, I’ll be happy to. You can start with the Phoenix Library Historical Division and obtain a copy of the metro section that has that story. Just write them a letter. Who is real here?

  735. Yes, his hands were fats! Against a guy who stands there and dummies for him!
    And pay you $5.000 for what? You are a clown! 3 guys with guns! Go away! You have set the benchmark for liars on this site!

  736. About the Dragon Kenpo guys: if you are good and confident you don’t need to nor have time to put others down. YouTube is a place for ANYONE TO POST ANYTHING(almost anything). If these gentlemen are having fun, trying tondo some good in the world and are not getting in trouble: shut up. Let them be. It’s no sweat off your sack. Grow up.
    Michael Brooks makes some nice points in the first piece. Those were great examples of guys who did not “rank.” Some I had no idea and found that very interesting.
    Libby, if someone has a story you think is unreal, ask for more details. Who cares if it happened exactly like it comes out? Maybe you can learn something. If not, you can just move on from there. And man, you come off so absurd. Thompson you can’t just say or admit uses his stuff very effectively? Stop. All boxing? You know very little about Karate. Back knuckle? Any idiot training knows a back knuckle strike in the cage would be stupid to throw. Its the wrong place and gloves on, etc. Karate has way more than that. You got a very silly view of what Karate or TMA is. The hands down thing: you state the obvious, congrats. The guy feels comfortable with the space between and motion that will be coming. Anyone is susceptible to being clocked hands up or down.

    • Okay. let’s put reality back in the mix. One of my main gripes is that people put out these insane stories. 3 guys with guns- Really? And if it was all at once that’s totally nuts. And 1 guy 3 different tines is almost as nuts! Have we all gotten that goddamn PC? That should be spoken out against as crap, and it is. If Dragon Kenpo does not want the heat than do not get in the kitchen, It was shit and they are idiots to try and pawn that shit off on anybody! I feel you should be ashamed of trying to defend either! They are both indefensible!
      As to my knowledge of Karate and TMA I will match it against yours any day of the week. I am sorry, but MA via DVD is crap. It can be unsafe. And rather than pulling a Joshua Pestaner please say where I am wrong? He, Johnny Thompson, does not move his rear leg to a more forward position when punching? He does not stand there and use boxing? He does use Karate blocks? He does stand sideways and use Kenpo techniques?
      I believe in loyalty, but not at the cost of integrity and an honest analysis. And I feel you just threw that right out the window. And the kid is very very talented and I said does use Karate at a distance, but not close in. Please send me one video instances! I watched like 7 of his fights and he is boxing or good old street brawling! Lyoto Machida uses Shotokan punching.
      And TMA means using the blocks as taught, the kicks as taught, the minor hits as taught, the forward and reverse bows, the circular blocking to say a back knuckle- that’s why it’s called TRADITIONAL! But you cannot use it! But the Kenpo co out is always “well he used a back knuckle- that must be Kenpo!” “He used an inward elbow and Reversing MAce has one so that’s part of Reversing Mace!” It’s as if any and all strikes that happen to be in any part of a system make it TMA! NO! Otherwise it is not a system; it is lucky shots here and there, or some skilled shots but in a systematic way. SO why train all these moves in set sequences?

      • https://youtu.be/PhO4aqPSKn8

        https://youtu.be/8K-RS3AkF5w

        Have to disagree with you. I know much more about Karate than you.

        Boxing hands? Boxing is an art that is only hands. There are only a certain amount of ways to throw a punch and boxing does not own any thing uniquely. Karate has every strike that is in boxing, but combinations are usually delivered differently. Different kind of mindset. Thompson uses flurries of strikes when he is stuck inside(but this appears to be more defensive to get out of the situation.) It is not his offensive “boxing.” But if you want to call it boxing, OK, who cares? His delivery of strikes are very dominantly coming from “blitzes.” Both Karate and point sparring tactics. Basically throwing yak a tsuki punches while stampeding forward. He has a tendency as well to throw a hammer fist at the end of blitzes. This is a very common tactic in American sport point fighting: not traditional karate styles like Shotokan. I’ve never liked it, but is very cool to see Thompson apply it effectively in the cage.

        Go to the 6min20sec mark in the second clip. It has the finishing combonin in slow motion for you. COMBO: rear check hand to the lead hand, reverse punch to oy tsuki(step through forward lead hand punch. That is mega karate right there. Kids to adults drill that combo thousands and thousands of times. Timing is the key.

        As for blocks, its there, but I’m done for now holding your hand and showing you examples.

        A fight is not in slow motion, so you can never expect to see these combinations and skill sets as slow as you see them practiced. That goes for any fighting skill set.

  737. I watched the Hoover videos over and over.
    I am going to self rank.
    As of today I am celetialy Global super supreme Great Grand Master 20th Degree Barcelona red belt.
    My system is mongonpo.
    The guy is horrible!
    If anyone would like to comment on how Dragon differs from EDPAK please enlighten me.
    Is the creator of Dragon Kenpo still around?
    So much bs!
    I also found out researching that there was initial talks for Chuck Norris to fight Marvin Hagler in a karate vs. boxing match.
    How long would that fight had lasted?
    In fact, I heard that Hagler hated karate and was salivating hoping the Norris fight happened.
    The most successful karate turned boxer was Troy Dorsey who won a title.
    Don Wilson failed miserably.
    Jean Yeves Theriault defended his PKA title against a golden gloves runner up who learned a few kicks and struggled to a decision win.
    James Warring went from kickboxing to a boxing cruiserweight title.
    Too few karate people to get ultimate respect from the boxing community.
    Things are different now mainly due to MMA/UFC where pugilists have not really excelled.

    • How would the world’s best checkers players do against the best chess players?

      Or how about the best ping pong players dueling in Foosball?

      ….

      Don’t overcomplicate your life.

      • What does that even mean? You never addressed one point I made. You need to face some simple facts. In close TMA does not work! If it did people would use it.

        • Libby,

          Gave you plenty to look at and said very clearly. As for the forward, neutral, reverse bows and blocks: there also there. He’s in a wide neutral/lunge through out much of the fights, cross stances, etc. I think you wanna see a really bad drawn out fight with exaggerated movements: but that doesn’t exist. When you were learning somehow I guess you never put pieces together and knew how to do things.
          Like I also said about inside fighting, if you want to call it boxing: whatever, who cares? Now you call it brawling. Who cares? I don’t know what you think tma inside fighting looks like. I’ve seen plenty and its very much like boxing or brawling or other arts. That’s why if you want to call it boxing: go right ahead. Its not worth going into anymore.

  738. Those instances have police reports, witnesses and the newspaper article I quoted the title from in the Phoenix Gazette which one page copies of the article can be obtained from the Phoenix Library in Arizona. That said, I don’t like to brag, but thought it best to show that Kenpo can be used to address extremely violent situations more successfully that not. Ed Parker in the video had dazzling speed and true power behind the movements, which a lot of Kenpo people take years to master because they’re usually caught up in the bright lights of the new fancy movements they’ve been taught. For those who really know how to fight and have been there, a person with a gun or a knife who is threatening someone for money etc. stands like a dummy and it is conducive to use the techniques that Mr. Parker used. But for those who argue, could it be used against someone jumping around in a street fight, I can add that the other person in the video, Frank Trejo, mastered and incorporated Mr. Parker’s techniques and Kenpo and was amateur Kickboxer -Hs record was 14-0. As a Professional
    Kick boxer, his record was 21-1. He went on to win the California State Kickboxing Title in 1979. Marion Bermudez was one of the first female fighters to go full contact around the 1975? era and was a legend in her own right, fighting boxers and full contact karate fights. If you use your head and practice Kenpo is one of the best defensive systems available in a concise form. If you want art and science, the Kung fu systems are the next step. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3IrtV9v1D9k

    • So post them! Post them right here. It does not cost $5,000 to get an article. They are at the library for free or at the newspaper.
      And Ed is not showing power. He is hitting a stationary target. Your points are very foolish. But I want to see the articles of you taking guns from people!

  739. Sorry, but in the fights I watched there are no neutral or reverse bows, no star blocks, it’s BOXING! He does use a crossover sidekick and as I stated at distance much of it is in fact TMA! But in tight where is the Kenpo artistry? You always go to “well, it’s TMA, but different.” Yes, I am too unskilled and do not know enough knowledge to know the difference. And if it is different then it is not TMA.
    And yes, at distance he is in a neutral bow- I admitted that. But once the entry is made the Karate says bye-bye! I even showed this to my muay Thai people up here and they were impressed. I am too. But your analysis is so skewed by that Kenpo brainwashing! Please send me a clip with a time marked where he uses any Karate blocking to say a reverse punch ro back fist! And you will that they do not use back knuckles in MMA or ridge hands.
    Sorry, but you are proving my points for me.
    And this guy with the “3 gunmen” bullshit! You made excuses for that crap and Hover with his Dragon Kenpo!

  740. The reason you don’t see a neutral bow stance in a lot of fighting is because its not needed if you know you’re b… aren’t going to be threatened, either because the other guy is boxing or isn’t a good kicker. But oriental people, as part of their culture and their Kung Fu, use all the flowery stuff. Nothing wrong with being artistic if that makes you happy. And a DVD Kenpo training program would probably be a great idea for someone who had no training experience, because they would not develop too many preconceived notions, which was precisely what Jeet Kune Do was trying to get across and away from styles, except its a point to note that you can pick up books written by Jeet Kune Do writers that are hundreds of pages long. This is a link about a waif of a woman who dabbled in boxing as a green belt Kenpo (She may have been brown at the time) and won a boxing match, so training creates the fighter but not the brawler. And Robert, you’re starting to lose credibility by saying that Mr. Parker had no power in the video. If he’d have hit you fully on the temple or chin at the speed he was moving his hands, you’d have gone down like a sack of potatoes. By the way, in one of these links, Marion is listed as a man. She was a student of Fred Stille, who was a black belt from Mr. Parker. http://karate-in-english-lewis-wallace.blogspot.com/2008/05/1975-wpko-second-world-championships.html
    http://www.womenboxing.com/marion.htm

  741. I think it’s immature and rather unimaginative to say that a person couldn’t learn Kenpo from a DVD when in reality, it might be the very best first way because the student could learn at their own pace and even more important, come to realize what feels more natural, with not too many preconceived notions. How many of us remember the first lessons that were overwhelming with entirely new information, dictated by an instructor who may or may not have been someone who is able to transcend the two people involved and transfer the knowledge. Certainly no one would argue that one shouldn’t study by DVD if there was no other choice, such as if one did not have access to a physical instructor. One of the reasons you don’t see a lot of neutral bows in real fighting is because its only used to make one aware of protecting your b…. and for getting more power from a rear kick. American Kenpo is never as flowery in actual matches because of its evolvement, and because it isn’t a cultural requirement and mandated custom that exists in oriental countries that practice Kung Fu and also develop tremendous strength in their legs and horse stances. That said, some oriental martial arts like Thai kickboxing don’t have much excess moves in my observations. To be fair, I accept that I’m the least in life long martial artists who have devoted hour after hour of practice, or research in these subjects. I’m functional though.
    You’re losing your credibility Robert, with your curt remark and observations on speed and power, if you can’t accept that if Mr. Parker used those lighting fast hand movements in the previous video, along with the power demonstrated to your temple or chin, you’d have dropped like a sack of potatoes. A stationary person can never absorb blows well.
    The following are some links about Marion Bermudez, a female kenpo student of Fred Stille who was a black belt trained under Mr. Parker. She engaged and was successful in both boxing matches and even full contact cross overs with kenpo and boxing, at least one, which was with a male who outweighed her by about 75 pounds. She was a lithe 100 + lbs. http://www.womenboxing.com/marion.htm
    Your bluster Robert, doesn’t cover that you backed down from a bet you weren’t sure you could win. It may be your personality does not have the ability to accept that you might be wrong.

    • My bluster? You pompous little shit! I am not the one lying by saying I have disarmed three armed gunmen! And them asking for $5,000! So prove it as you made the comment! You are so full of crap!
      You have nothing of value to say! I can back uo what I say and have in the past! The only Michael Brooks involved in a disarm was at Seattle Pacific University and he was merely a witness and did not do the disarm.
      And for a beginner a DVD can be dangerous as they have no experience. Just because somebody puts out a DVD does not make it accurate. Jake Mace has a whole series that you watch online for $5 per month and he is a clown!
      And it was not a “bet.” You said send me $5,000. This is your comment- that is not a wager! “If you would be willing to pay me $5000.00 dollars (and put your money where your mouth is) if I can prove the above”
      So you are also a liar in other ways!
      Ed Parker “lived and breathed Karate.” Ed could barely breathe! He did a demo on KCOP channel 13 in Los Angeles and was gassed out after doing 5 Swords like 3 to 4 times!
      So why don’t you and KenpoJ go bow down to your Ed Parker figurines and pray to him! He knew very little as exhibited by his plethora of non-functional techniques- rarely taught, never fought, not competed!. Where’s the proof in that? And ducked the Milo Savage fight and would not fight me, and that is verified by 1st and 2nd generation Kenpo black belts!And called a health club and threatened to beat up my students! WOW! He was such a class act. He was a con man and a coward!
      Another one of your statements! Now it is one gunman! Which story is next? Your statement-Don’t forget it was a purple belt student of Ed Parker, who stopped an armed gunman who attempted to kidnap a woman in Phoenix, Arizona in April 1987. His article appeared in the Phoenix Gazette, April 1987: ‘Man risks life to save Woman’.
      Yes, your comments are great, for those that do not know anything or are already brainwashed and in the cult! You basically said nothing. And “it’s the man and not the style” is a partial truth. Some systems are just better and that is the truth. Some systems are just not viable, and Kenpo techniques are very high on the list of failed systems!

      • Libby, what are TMA guys/gals expected to throw(punches/kicks/knees/elbows) when at close range in your view? You somewhat identify karate at far range, but say no one does karate at close range. Think you said some things about back knuckles and ridge hands. Sounds silly.

        Your attacks are lame(DVD learner bla bla bla).

        Since you don’t have much to do, could you do a few clips or even just 1 clip of some people or just 1 person doing random/spontaneous attacks on you and you respond? I have been cureous since day 1 to see if you can do anything or teach anyone to be any good in a short time. You enjoy just talking crap. Move a little, get the ticker some exercise and show what you think everyone is missing and show how you are some mash potatoe gravy.

        • Considering that I just had a total right shoulder reconstruction the answer for now would be no! But you knew that.
          How about a video of you doing anything! And answers like bla bla bla! Okay! At least I can do a functional analysis of a technique and no the real from the surreal! I would never invent some shit like Twist of Fate or Clutching Feathers to sell books and DVDs!
          So back to the basics- I want just one video of Ed Parker looking like anything but a fool, and I am the one who found one, He did a thing on “opposing forces” that made sense and was pretty good theory wise. He of course did nothing but talk!
          How am I proven- at the time youngest instructor at the IKKA. Youngest on the Ed Parker Inter school sparring team under Norman Pattiz. Asked by Ed Parker to do two demos at the age of 15 because Ed Parked said “you can take a shot.”. And one was for the Screen Actors Guild which is where you wnat to look good. I was teamed with Tino Tuliolisega. Promoted to green belt with no test do to my abilities- they just had me come up and awarded it to me for all my work and effort. Ran Paul Dalton’s school as far as teaching for almost 2 years. Taught for PFS for 2 years in Chico, CA. Did the bulk of the teaching at PFS of Ridgecrest, CA from 1999 to 2011. So I guess if the PFS people trust my abilities they are up to par. And my nickname in Chico was “the Mangler.” I also ran the IKKA Santa Monica School for about 2 years.
          So what are your credentials? As Tom Bleecker pointed out you will not even give your real name. Now you prove anything! And what is funny is so many people called a liar and how full of shit I was. But now old school people have come forth and proven everything I have said. And I have proven them to be liars as in the case of Mills Crenshaw. And despite me showing evidence from a newspaper people said “thanks for setting the record straight mills”- yes, a proven liar set it straight. The power of brainwashing!
          So who are you! And I mean skill wise and by name. You just hide behind a keyboard like a troll!
          And they wanted videos and I gave them to them. And 4th. degree Ed Parker black belt finally admitted the technique was not realistic due to my video.
          And yes, people that are trained properly can do knees and elbows inside in real fights. They are called “martial artists”- something you know damn little about and have never been! And I love how you all go to anomalies. You point out a few gifted people and rave about them. Well go to a Gracie Barra BJJ school and they can ALL fight. Go to a good judo school and they can ALL fight. Go to real PFS or JKD school and they can ALL fight. Go to a Kenpo school and almost nobody can fight for real! Go to a Tae Kwan Do school, Aikido school, or many TMA schools and few if none can really fight!
          So before you snipe at me you come out of the shadows and at leasthave the balls to sat who you are!
          And by the way, I was feared enough to back down Ed Parker! I think that says plenty! And I backed two other fairly high ranking Kenpo black belts. What are your credentials?

  742. And Michael, I am still waiting for a video of Ed even looking halfway decent. And not shaking his hair while attacking immovable objects. The clip you sent is shortened as he makes an ass of himself at the end!
    https://youtu.be/yiIL98pkk5I This is him on The Lucy Show wearing the black belt he never earned and looking HORRIBLE! So he was neither “the man” nor had the system!
    And all the history lessons get so old. Many of the “legends” of TMA are not as great as people made them out to be. And many were unproven, like Ed Parker!

    • Libby, can you post some video proof you were/are half way decent? How are you proven?

      Many/most have no idea who you are. Where’s your good old days footage. You talk more about being hurt and being on sets than actually doing much. You make excuses for your friends not looking great on video, but expect others to shine where they don’t? Bit of a double standard and on top of that you have norhing? Not trying to bash you, it’s just a aimple analysis of your many posts.

      • So why did Tom Bleecker” refer to me as “a ferocious fighter.” And why did I get to do all the other things I stated prior to this post?
        My credentials are solid and a lot of people know who I am. So now let’s see anything from you! But you never will as you have nothing to show. At least my ideas are sound. Of course I cannot unfurl my crane like you or do a good reverse tiger’s mouth! I actually teach what works!
        So who are you? But you will never reveal that as you are a coward!

  743. KenpoJ is an alias. I started using it after someone on the thread recommended I not use my real name anymore… If you can’t figure out who I am yet go to a herbal supplements store and pick up some Ginkgo Bilbao Plus.

    You rattle some names off who know you and within Kenpo. So what? Other people can do the same, but you show little respect for that. So sorry buddy, I don’t care for your names. Where’s your video proof that you were decent?

    The poor mangler can’t do anything because he has a bum shoulder….. Wow, the mangler sounds so bad ass…

    Anyone who lived by a cool nickname wouldn’t give 2 shits for a bum shoulder, only having 1 leg, 1 eye, broken hand, bound to a wheel chair, etc. You have reduced your cool nickname to some crap. Full of excuses. Mangler wouldn’t know how to come up with so many excuses. Someone who possessed so much skill/knowledge wouldn’t have a problem coming up with something to show or have someone else show. Ed Parker was way better than you. Ed Parker at his weakest points were better than your current self. Look in the mirror and focus on you. Impress yourself.

    You did a “Muay Thai kick” example in 1 of your vids. It was some horrendous crap to see. I didn’t comment because … Was it really worth it?

    I don’t think you have much to show. Prove me wrong and show some stuff. You’re a great martial artist, modern day bad ass; the mangler. Easy.

    You gloat that Ed Parker chose you for some demos. Chose you to run some schools. A great or good teacher can see a diamond in the rough. A good teacher can find the right opportunities to encourage and push someone to progress. Ed Parker did that for many and he buffed a lot of diamonds. You’re an ungrateful bama. You missed the lessons and probably have never come close to your true potential.

    Tom Bleecker says a lot of nice things about people in written form. Don’t flatter yourself too much. And this is no knock on Bleecker.

    It is an old school thing to not test and just be awarded your rank. Many BJJ schools do this to this day. Other TMA also do it. However, testing fees bring more income to a school just like any university.

    Lastly, ALL techniques of any art are obsolete. The moment a stimulus is made/felt, everything changes. Your stupid “I would slip and…,” talk is a no brainer. Of course when you know what’s coming or get touched it will cause spontaneous reactions. If you are stuck on a technique, you’re going to get by our ass whooped. Parker knew this as well. Techniques just teach and drill concepts. You been in the arts too long to not understand that.

  744. WOW! That was more crap! Still too chickenshit to say who you are! And I had put it out there. And none of you kenpo blowhards would accept until; after I was almost killed. Ever center punch a truck at 70+ mph?
    And where were you when I put it out there? Ed was a fraud and Kenpo is a joke!
    And all the lies told here. “all the movie stars he bodyguarded- 1, Elvis.
    Yes, he did jump start the careers of 2 people. That’s it- Speakman and Bruce Lee.
    What is really happening here is I have shattered your idiotic belief system and you do not like it. I have seen it before. So prove my ideas wrong! Do a video! But you do not have the balls! You are all hot air. And as I said where were all the tough guys when I came to the states- hiding in their dojos!
    Your comment:
    Techniques just teach and drill concepts. You been in the arts too long to not understand that. BUT NOT WHEN THE MAJORITY CONCEPTS ARE USELESS!

  745. Damn your slow, Joshua is KenpoJ…

    You haven’t PROVEN ANYTHING. I could show how various jab techniques “don’t work,” or any combination, but that is a total waste of time. Everything changes with stimulus and reactions. Duh.

    I proved the power of the vertical fist. You TRIED to show how your horizontal fist “when done right,” keeps the elbows in line and not flaring out. But you looked silly TRYING VERY HARD to not let your elbows flare out in your slow demo. I was nice and didn’t say anything. Proved you wrong already on something. Elbows naturally flare out when he hands turn over. You can’t keep them in when trying to throw with power. Your variations are just variations, who cares? I could go to any seminar and see the same thing. Everyone comes up with different variations. Nothing you do is original or works even better.

    You showed a “fight tip,” protecting from knees. That’s some video learning crap that can get someone killed. Instead of trying to elbow the thigh: just bring hands over the plum hold and rip out. Much safer and gets you out of harms way. The other way often gets you knocked out while your trying to aim you elbows at opponent’s thighs.

    I’ve pit myself out there plenty and you ain’t got anything even close that can top it. So “Mangler”, stay quiet and come up with something to show. Or continue with the excuses. I’m actually hoping you show something so we can have real convos and exchange.

  746. No, I thought it was you, bit I wanted to hear it from you!
    This is a comment from a Gracie black belt on my critique of your school, my #8 video. Seems he does not see much reality:
    “I agree with everything said here. Once you know what to look for the BS is easy to spot. There is so much wrong with these techniques. People don’t shoot straight punches? WTF? Has this guy ever been in a real fight? Has he ever even seen a real fight??”
    Here’s another comment on your “school.” I love the apart about how a supposed Kyokushin black belt said “people do not punch straight.”
    lol…that is the plot to “Under Siege” . Wow. Has anyone other than you actually bothered to do some background work on this guy and call him out?A Kyokushin black belt says no one throws straight punches?!? Wow. What did he see and throw for the 7-10 years he was training Kyokushin? Side note: If he actually ever did Kyokushin he would know that back knuckle to the body wont do anything. The only real pain will come from the ribs and liver. If he had ever set foot in a Kyokushin dojo he should know that and have taken thousands of punches to the body. ?
    This is from #4, and it’s an Ed Parker stylists and they have videos up:
    “Hello there. With all do respect and If I may say so. You are politically incorrect Sir but you are right on target. I say these as a compliment to your efforts on your Tutorials. Good day.?”
    So you see Joshua you are a clown! I am getting far more praise than I thought I would. So what you say means nothing. And you obfuscation with me and Tom Bleecker just shows what a childish loser you really are!

  747. This is on martial cults. You will notice that certain parts of this happened when Ed died. That all the hangers on instantly started their own cults and promoted themselves to SGM status. It deals with the cult control of MA leaders. And any of you on this thread are his “bitch patrol.” Joshua, you may need a dictionary as it is over your reading level!
    4) The Moses Ploy
    There is a particular nasty crossbreed of the “Bitch Patrol” and the “Master” that you should be aware of. It is what a PhD. friend who specializes in cults calls the “I am Moses” approach. This ploy is very common when someone is trying to set up a cult inside an existing organization. And yes, it is possible to do that. The organization itself might not be a cult, but that branch is. One should keep an eye out for this behavior, especially when looking at international organizations (and where the ultimate head of the system is far away and speaks a different language).

    Basically the “I am Moses” ploy goes like this:
    Moses speaks to God, the peons don’t. Moses goes up the mountain and returns with the laws and teachings from above, the peons stay put waiting for the latest news.. Moses tells the peons God’s will. The peon’s don’t make the hike up the mountain themselves and ask God ” What’s up with that?”

    Any attempts by the peon’s to do these things results in the unleashed fury of the self-proclaimed Moses and his own Bitch Patrol.

    Sometimes this Uber-master that SPM (self-proclaimed Moses) is reporting to doesn’t even exist at all! He is just a made up story to give Moses credibility beyond himself. That is why this secret grandmaster is off in a far and distant land — a place that conveniently doesn’t have Web access.

    More commonly, however, the uber-grandmaster is — or was — a real person. Most of the time the uber-grand master has a certain degree of fame in the martial arts world. And often these grandmaster have either accredited schools, representative or franchises across the country and/or around the world. As such the SPM is indeed, certified in that system and/or has been granted status as that organizations “representative” in a country or state. Most of the time the SPM is a school/franchise owner.

    In some cases the SPM will claim that the grand master is no longer teaching except to the highest ranking students — the SPM included. (Although in the age of the internet, this ploy unravels pretty fast). But, if you want a good laugh, start checking how many individuals in a system were granted their master ranking by the uber-grand master in his final days. This is the ultimate in the grandmaster isn’t teaching anymore ploy. He’s dead. But, they’d have you believe that on his death bed the grandmaster was on the phone promoting students left and right, himself included. Remember how we mentioned earlier that most cults do not survive beyond the Master’s death? This dying breath promotion ploy is an example of the fragmentation and splintering into smaller cults that was also mentioned; each one claiming to represent the ‘true’ teachings of the master. Even if the original grandmaster wasn’t running a cult, these splinter groups often develop into mini or near-cults.

    If the uber-grand master is still living and teaching, the SPM and his bitch patrol will run interference between students and the grandmaster. Sometimes he will prevent those not of his inner-circle from attending seminars by the grandmaster Although this is more common with the SPM and BP traveling to where the Grand Poo-bah is and leaving the students behind. This tends to be more subtle pressure than direct, without actively discouraging a student training, the reason for the SPM’s travel is for “advanced training” (which excludes the peon student). Or, if the grand master shows up in Podunk, the SPM and Bitch Patrol will make sure nobody (at least nobody not within the inner circle, a.k.a. “a nobody”) will get close to the to ask anything but the most basic question during the seminar. In many of the bigger organizations, the grand master will demonstrate the techniques, but the SPM/BP will be doing most of the hands on instruction. Thereby ensuring an extra layer of isolation between the grand poo-bah and seminar attendees.

    Often SPMs can operate in this manner because of cultural differences. It is true; Heads of traditional oriental organizations can be difficult to approach. In fact, cultural protocols make some notoriously difficult to approach. Talking with them is like trying to have a private word with a rock star. The SPM, however, takes this tendency and exaggerates it until he literally becomes Moses…the messenger through which God speaks to the congregation — except in this case the SPM is spindoctoring the message for his own profit.

    There is a serious question that arises out of this situation. That is: How much does the (mother organization/grandmaster) know is going on? Is the Grandmaster completely unaware? Is he culturally unaware of this possible spin? Is he turning a blind eye because he’s making money from the SPM schools? Or is he, in fact, an active participant and encouraging such a mess? It only takes one glance at the Wing Chun Wars in Germany to realize exactly how valid of a question this is.(3)

  748. Holy crap! Did you seriously write all that for your excuse?! You completely sidesteped everything. It reveals a lot of insecurity. What? You think writing a bunch of jibberish will make the previous requests disappear or myself or others would forget so quickly? Absolutely lame. Going to bed now.

    • Joshua, face a simple fact. You are an immature little boy with little man’s complex. I answered everything. You are so immature that you use two names and think you really got me by using a different name- WOW! You are so sophisticated. So I am “slow” because you think I didn’t realize what a sneaky little rat you are? You are a fraud in a crap system at a crap school!
      Tom Bleecker blew you off as am I. People are complimenting me on my videos as to how realistic they are and laughing at yours and Greg Payne. You said Greg Payne had boxed and did Kyokushinkai! He said “people do not punch straight.” Boxing? He said “you can’t get to the outside.” You bob and weave. He knows nothing about Kyokushinkai and nothing about boxing as demonstrated by his own teaching.
      See you in Maryland!

  749. Mr Libby, there was no Wing Chun war in germany. They had other problems. Why is there no Vunak student or Vunak self in MMA? It’s not working, even Wing Chun is not working. It workes for self defense against normal fighters. When in Europe visit Hamburg / Reeperbahn. We have some very special Streetfighter. They can show you some real stuff. Thoma Born r.i.p was one of them. He trained in Shotokan. You can check on You tube.

    • I believe there was a wing chun “war” as in students from other schools fighting each other. I’ll check the guy out. Vunak’s people are not in MMA because they do train for MMA; they only train for the street. It is that simple. But they use MMA principles.

    • He’s on YouTube doing nothing. He seems to like strip bars and maybe did some television work. But almost all of it is him sitting in bars or lifting weights. He does a little bag work and that’s it!
      Vunak does not really do wing chun. Classical wing chun was so changed by Bruce and JKD. I personally do not care for wing chun. So you think wing chun is all Vunak does? He does boxing, kick boxing, silat, has a black in BJJ, JKD, and is thoroughly tested.
      You will have to send something on this Thomas Born. I saw virtually nothing of any worth and I do not speak German.

  750. One opinion on Shotokan. I have never had trouble with Shotokan fighter. They are easily defeated just by a good jab, they have a hard time with hooks and upper cuts, and the blocking is absurd
    So Ninja training is silly. I agree. But so is Shotokan training. Much of what we do is not applicable in the street anymore than what most martial arts teach. It is rigid, structured, and obsessed with good form. We’ll teach it to anyone, even people too small and weak to ever be able to fight. We do lots of things which are inconsistent, nonsensical, and downright silly like a Ninja school. You should be aware of what these things are.
    …If you can’t find fault with Shotokan, then you haven’t given it much thought. In fact, to me, it is axiomatic that if someone is a true expert at something, they will have many complaints and criticisms of the way things are in their field of expertise.
    The more I learn about Shotokan, the less I like it. Every year that passes helps me to find new things that I am disappointed in. The more I progress, the more limitations of Shotokan become apparent to me. If you cannot see the inherent weaknesses and holes in whatever you are studying, you don’t know much about it.
    This second comment ends with a comment from a Mas Oyama 10th. degree black belt named Jon Bluming on traditional karate,including Shotokan, being useless for the street, and especially against anybody with skills. He also holds a 9th. in Judo, and the Dutch are known for judoka! You will have to do a lot more than this to make me see your point. I doubt you have anything to show me unless it’s not Shotokan!

    The 12 Immutable Reasons Why Traditional Karate Is Not Effective For Self-Defense

    1. The One-Strike Kill

    The biggest cliché of karate is the one-strike kill. This of course does not exist, but has fooled so many for years. Shigeru Egami (one of Funakoshi’s top students) freely admitted there was no such thing. At one point in his career, Egami admits going into a deep depression after concluding a personal study about which martial style had the most powerful tsuki (punches). He found that karate had the least powerful tsuki, and boxing the strongest. Betting everything on one punch can get you killed.

    2. Waiting for The Attack

    Karate philosophy states, “wait for the attack.” Remember Funakoshi’s maxim, “Never attack first?” This is suicidal. In real situations, the first person to strike usually walks away. The untrained public, (influenced by Hollywood) erroneously thinks you have to eat the first punch, but you give up your lawful right to protect yourself by letting someone strike you first. Criminals take advantage of this civilized mindset. If you feel that violence is about to break out, strike first.

    3. On Stances

    Karate, (along with several hard Chinese styles) employs some of the most ineffective stances in martial arts. Deep, low karate stances make you completely immobile; they plant you in one spot, making quick movements extremely difficult. This is great for working your muscles but not for active conflicts. You may as well hang a sign around your neck saying “strike me at will, I can’t move.” If you recall early kickboxing, the first thing they got rid of were those static stances.

    4. Karate as a Way Of Life

    Years ago while in Japan, Gogen (Yamaguchi) once came up to me and asked, “I never see you practice kata, why?” I replied that I thought it was an exercise in futility, having no functional value. He grew upset and chastised me by saying, without kata, we’re just animals, like boxers or wrestlers, I replied, “that’s OK, I just want the skills.” More than anything else, some karate practitioners have a fear about being labeled as “killers.” Their reply is always, “I follow the path, karate is a way of life.” I guess they feel absolved from their inner conflicts or sociological guilt when they say that, sort of like what confession does for a Catholic. There is nothing wrong with the spiritual side of karate, but you have to understand there’s a time to fight and a time to meditate.

    5. Spirituality and Meditation

    For many Japanese karateka, religion and martial arts are inseparably linked. Japanese spirituality and meditation are not a function of karate; they’re emblematic of the culture that developed it. Westerners really buy into this big time. It’s actually a direct affront to your personal beliefs. What if a Japanese boxer wanted to train in the U.S. with a Baptist coach, would he have to join the church, sing out loud, clap his hands, dance and get down? Changing your spiritual identity in order to learn self-defense doesn’t make sense! Mas Oyama once asked me how much time I meditate per day. I told him — I don’t, I have my own religion; I don’t need to replace it with another.

    Meditation does not necessarily benefit any martial activity. For example, if you recall, in the 1983 Olympics in Korea, the Koreans had the strongest archery team in the world. They attributed their secret of success to their late night meditation practices in cemeteries. Did it help the men’s team win – no, an American walked away with the gold. Did he meditate? No, before each match he was listening to Van Halen!

    6. Breaking Objects can Break You!

    Karate, more than any other martial art is renowned for its breaking demonstrations; but anyone can break inanimate objects, it’s easy and you don’t have to study karate to do so. Do breaking boards and bricks translate into fighting ability? Again Egami comments that breaking objects is very different than striking a human body, humans are resilient. He goes farther, saying that even “makiwara” training is harmful to the body, and stopped doing it already in the late ’50’s. Robert Smith, in his book “Martial Musings” notes that Mas Oyama damaged his hands so much he couldn’t even place a blanket on top of them when he went to sleep. Continued breaking over a period of years brings with it such delights as arthritis and other degenerative diseases.

    7. The Kata Crutch

    A major part of karate practice focuses on kata. I’ve never understood why so many people defend it so vehemently. There’s almost a cult-like obsession about doing it. Perhaps karateka feel it grants them a special kind of spiritual dispensation, allowing them to indulge in the study of fighting. Kata however is nothing more than several techniques strung together; a tool to help beginners understand how techniques flow. For advanced practitioners, it constrains your progress and adds no functional value to your fighting skills. Jon Bluming said it best, something to the effect of, “it takes up time, and the money rolls in.”

    8. Karate Doesn’t Prepare You for the Street

    Unlike a sparring match, there are no rules on the street, no time-outs, no referees to separate you; there’s no sanctity of life. Street fights don’t start at sparring distance; many times they suddenly erupt chest-to-chest, many times from behind without warning. Your attacker won’t necessarily stop if you scream in pain. Unlike the smooth floor of the dojo, the street and pavement can be uneven, broken and contain dangerous objects you can fall over.

    In all the years I spent in karate, there was never a word about fighting under adrenaline stress conditions, the use-of-force, gross motor skills, and absolutely no legal considerations. Karate is primarily concerned with the attack stage of the encounter; no mention is made about the pre and post-conflict stages. Environmental and situational awareness, preemptive strikes, what to do if you’re hurt, do you run away, or make a citizen’s arrest – these important elements have not been added to the karate curriculum.

    Many karate techniques employ fine motor skills; under stress these are the first skills that abandon you. To work under excited conditions, techniques must be simple and based on gross motor skills. If you’ve been in fights, you know that after a few seconds of wild striking, many people start grabbing each other and quite often fall to the ground. How is your ground game? Do you know how to fight in a parking lot at midnight, on sand, gravel, on ice on a winter’s day? Training barefoot in a dojo doesn’t prepare you for any of these scenarios.

    9. Karate can make you Stiff and Rigid

    For years people have avoided weight training for fear that they would become stiff. If they only knew the truth — weight training actually makes you flexible and supple; karate can make you stiff! I’ve spoken at length to many boxing, kali, Brazilian Jujitsu and muaythai instructors and they all agree, karate produces a tenseness and rigidity that seems almost irreversible. I believe it’s all those hard air punches and kicks, tense kata and deep immovable stances contributing to this condition. You see this state most pronounced when karate students take up reality-based defense.

    10. Karate is Ineffective Against Modern Weapons

    The term Empty-Hand says it all; the main focus of karate is on unarmed combat. They do practice traditional weapons however, but what use is sai, tonfa, sickle, and bo practice when you can’t carry them. This is unrealistic in 2009, where attacks are mainly carried out with guns, knives and impact weapons. When you typically hear of karateka being hurt in an attack, it usually involves a knife or gun. Whenever we do seminars employing weapons scenarios, it’s usually the most advanced karateka that get killed the quickest.

    11. Karate Takes Too Long to Learn, and You Still Can’t Fight!

    In terms of effort spent, to proportion of effectiveness gained, traditional karate is one of the least efficient systems of any fighting style. Too much time is spent on the inanities of rituals and form. Most karate schools spend countless hours on kata or mindless sparring, as if this will prepare students for a real fight, but it doesn’t. Free sparring in karate only teaches you to fight other (barefoot) karateka’s in a dojo (school) environment. Kata practice is a primitive form of shadow boxing. There usually is no counter-knife, counter-firearms training, if it is taught all, it’s usually presented in a rigid step-by-step process, having no relation to what a real attack looks like.

    12. The Apotheosis of the Master

    I’ve always felt uncomfortable with the semi-deification of the so-called martial arts master. It just goes against the grain of my western upbringing. My goal in learning fighting was not to become a supplicant of an old man with a tough reputation. I believe that’s another reason why mixed martial arts (i.e., BJJ, muaythai, boxing, and Filipino martial arts) have become so popular. There’s no groveling involved just mutual respect. In the west, a coach doesn’t demand a special status, over and beyond his normal duties. A coach guides athletes in their respective sports. His goal is to encourage, goad and train his charges to success. He is the father, the friend and the teacher; athletes trust him and his judgment.

    Bringing karate into the 21st-Century

    To bring karate up to date I suggest the following: Besides the regular training practice add 1-day of reality based concepts and techniques. Engage in realistic simulations for your training. Consider the pre-conflict and post-conflict phases of the engagement. Learn how to speak to police and prosecutors, learn first-aid and how to do a self-triage. Learn to to adapt traditional techniques to the modern world. Learn awareness and how to live a lifestyle of avoidance.

    Why study karate at all?

    I have no problem with people practicing traditional karate. If you love the art then it’s your responsibility to add realistic street training to your program. As I said, I am not against karate, in fact more and more I am consulting with karate schools on how to add and implement reality-based concepts into their programs.

    Note:

    I spoke with Jon Bluming a few years ago about this particular article (he was awarded a 10th Dan by Mas Oyama himself) and he said he agreed with me completely. Read his comments below.

    Comments from Jon Bluming

    “In my opinion the old fashioned way of karate is not that effective anymore because to many now in the world have seen it, and done it. Just learning a good defence against the high kick, low kick and a straight fist waza and you find yourself in a bad spot. Also against a good streetfighter especially when the man knows a few good throws and some groundwork.”

    “Never do groundwork when there are many opponents. Even a worldchamp in the K-1, like Ernesto Hoost 4-times worldchamp and Peter Aerts 3-times worldchamp (all from my students Pan Plas and Johan Vos of the Budokai before) have no chance when you jump them and drag then to the ground, where they become babies.”

    “Now, the all around system that I introduced to Oyama’s Kyokushinkai Honbu in 1966 is really the best and there are some real good fighters now with those ideas coming from Brazil and the Netherlands. Sem Schilt who decked Hoost several times.”

    “Ordinary and simple karate like shotokan, wado-ryu and shito-ryu is overrated for real self-defence. Kyokushin is a little better but all around fighting (mixed martial arts) like Kickboxing combined with karate and throws and followed up with groundwork is still MUCH better.”

    “In 1994 Matsui refused to take my challange to fight me in a boxing ring, me against him. The witness was Akira Maeda the former Ring champion and 8th dan in the Int. Budokaikan. I was than 61 years old. Now I am almost 71 and stopped fighting since 1961. The injuries are just getting me, but I still really love to teach the young fighters what you can do.”

    Keep up the good work [WR]. OSU . Jon Bluming . Kancho of the IBK .

    About Jon Bluming:

    Jon Bluming was among the first wave of westerners (after WWII) to study martial arts in Japan and Korea. He was officially awarded a 10th dan in Kyokushinkai karate by Mas Oyama, and a 9th dan in judo from the Kodokan. He was also instrumental in introducing and developing these arts in Europe. Since his early training, he always felt that karate and judo by themselves were incomplete. His idea, (back in the 1950’s) was to incorporate striking, throwing, and groundwork; what would later be called mixed martial arts.

  751. Long day today. My son won the county wrestling league tournament for his weight class.

    I have been following Bluming almost since I began training. His war stories are incredible!

    I’ve always been encouraged by my instructor to learn from others and arts. I met a guy here that was teaching out of his basement near my house. His nickname was Gorilla and he was an old man from NYC. I recognized him for his officiating at karate tournaments. Well, anyways, he was/is pretty deep in martial arts history. He was very protective of talking about his past and training, But after I told him about my training background and its ties to NY and interest in history; I guess he liked me and took me to his upstairs office where he had tons of memorabilia and his certifications. He was a Peter Urban (Goju Ryu USA) black belt, 4th or 6th degree Mas Oyama black belt and some other stuff. He was a guy who loved traveling the world training with the top guys. He was like an Indiana Jones of Martial Arts.

    So he told me a story about Bluming when he trained with him. (Mas Oyama would train everyone and go down the lines and test their basics. He would have them do their blocks and he would blast the arms. It was not uncommon for Oyama to break arms.)

    Bluming had him show how he did an upward block. It was a 90degree block. Bluming said no, it has to be 45. Gorilla never recognized how the slight change could be so effective.

    Gorilla went back to Oyama’s. When they were drilling the blocks he did his new angles upward as Oyama tested it. There was no pain as Oyama’s strike slid down to the side. Oyama smiled and said… “vetty good.” And he continued on.

    Shotokan guys getting beat up by a jab is just stupid talk.

    Do they have holes? Sure, but every style and every person does. But a good Shotokan fighter: you’re not just going for a stroll in the park.

    For a martial artist and someone looking to really train for possible street self defense: you have to question what you do. You have be eager to altar things to work better. You have to be a scientist.

    Now let’s set the record straight. Libby ain’t done a lick of Kyokushin training… so you know what? From what you think you have seen and read about it, you don’t know very much.

    Kyokushin is still very much Karate with a bigger emphasis on body toughening, leg kicks, kicks in general and some form of boxing hands that sit well with the combination kick flows. You still have a lot of forms, basics drilling, not so much deep stances though. Much of Kyokushin fighting is straight on. They don’t usually have a huge emphasis on getting to the outside.

    Bluming added his Judo to his Kyokushin. Mas Oyama was a very good Judoka/grappler as well: I don’t know why he didn’t add more emphasis in his training of his students. That’s a good question to lookup. He knew the issues strikers would have with grapplers. It wasn’t a secret.

    Ashihara Karate (offshoot of Kyokushin) believed in getting to the outside for a huge majority of their tactics. This method is called Tai Sabaki. Its basically moving up and down the circle. Ashihara like Bluming didn’t care much for kata. He too did not think Karate katas helped in self defense training. SO he made a couple new katas of his own. it was using his Tai Sabaki movements and tying them with combinations (techniques) sequences he believed were fight ready and tested.

    I like those forms. I have actually been studying them for awhile. I like them because the mentality is similar to the IKCA form in my system. I love different stuff.

    Ashihara had a protege named Joko Ninomiya. When Ashihara passed, he didn’t take over. instead he split and made something else. He called it Enshin. Basically same thing as Ashihara, but with more Judo emphasis.

    Karate evolves already, but not in every hand. Same as any other arts. The aim to knock on Karate is kind of silly. Even Bluming’s is a little silly. However, when talking self defense the situational training he recommends is spot on. If all you do is Kata/form: you are not adequately preparing for street self defense. Also sparring within the same rules all the time does not help. Karate sparring, Kyokushin sparring, Wing Chun sparring, Boxing sparring, etc. You have to switch it up and drill differently.

    Lastly, Greg Payne trained Kyokushin with a Mas Oyama nephew in NYC, William Oliver, and Joko Ninomiya in Denver, Colorado when Joko was in his prime in the Ashihara system. Joko is still great. I got to meet him at his tournament here a few years back, The Sabaki Challenge. Payne has an opinion: most people on the street do not throw straight punches and are not trained in martial sciences. I happen to agree. If you keep that in mind: when a hook or haymaker comes in, trying to slip or get to the outside can have you walking right into the strike instead. So, we don’t aim to jump out all the time. In Ashihara and Enshin they train with straight punches like 90% of the time. Getting to the outside of a straight punch makes sense in those scenarios. But we come back to the questions: is it street applicable? Is it realistic? Is it safe training? You gotta play with it and keep testing it.

    Great job Libby with your long excuses for not showing anything. Your jabs at Payne are lame as well.

  752. And your defense of Vunak guys (jkd) not in MMA is bull shit. When others say they train for self defense on the street and mix stuff up, you go on a tangent saying if it’s not in cage or winning in competitions, its bull shit.
    You coddle what you do and just try to mock others. Just look at your own inconsistencies with your own beliefs and practices. It’s a joke. Your own stuff is in the same boat as those you mock. Wake up.

  753. No Joshua, lies and obfuscation as always. Just like you lied to me and Tom Bleecker. All I have ever said about MMA is it has rules and it is not the street. I have never knocked cage fighting ot its fighters! You do not have a shred of credibility. You just have a lie for every occasion.’And yes, you and Payne are laughable!

  754. Ay, I’m done. You’re a joke and no better than a troll. You just talk and make excuses to do nothing. You jave nothing to show on your own. You have to use others as a crutch; it’s pathetic. You got too much time to whine. It’s been fun at times. But at the end of the day, Libby, you have nothing to show and probably a poor teacher. Go on now, play with yourself.

    You got the rest of your life ahead of you: DO something with yourself. If it’s something martial arts wise, get off your ass, breathe and practice to your ability. Negativity will always hold you back and hurt you.

  755. Thank you so much for leaving! But who are you as you like to use phony names and try to play childish games? Are you KenpoJ or Joshua Pestaner? Are you mad at me or Tom Bleecker? Or do facts just get to you? I will keep rolling along and teach real martial arts that work and are street tested.
    Bye-Bye!

  756. Joshua,
    Kenpo J?
    What about Kenpo JO?
    Proves my initial assessment of you was correct.
    Your a SNEAK!
    A “snake in the grass”.
    Fuck you and fuck Greg Payne too!
    Your a ten year novice in the arts and your lack of respect for Robert is deplorable and disgusting.
    Here’s a man who has had to deal with numerous surgeries. yet he’s trying to do the right thing by posting videos that are meant to educate everyone on realistic techniques, and you demean him?
    What he’s put out on YouTube is hundreds of times of more benefit than the crap your lover Payne has posted.
    One thing that has never sat well with me throughout my life are sneaky individuals.
    I put them in the same category as snitches.
    You’ve shown your true colors time and again my friend.
    I don’t give two shits if you and your masturbator Payne are offended by my comments either.
    If Robert ever makes it to Maryland I’m in on that trip.
    Now, go talk shop with Greg about his workouts back in the old days NYC.
    A sneak like you should refrain from mentioning the names of well respected legends like Peter Urban, William Oliver, and Mas Oyama.

  757. And the little shit asked me to publicly say that he was not me when KenpoJ. I did it as it was the truth. But it shows his respect for Kenpo by how he handled Tom Bleecker who is a 7th. degree and trained under Bruce Lee also.
    I also loved how his petty little ego said I was so “slow” as I did not figure out it was him posting as KenpoJ. So he is a devious little shit who lies, insults his seniors, uses several screen names, only uses copy/paste, and refuses to post a video with any analysis as to why things work or don’t!
    I am also adding up the facts that Payne says he did Kyokushinkai yet said people do not punch straight. He boxed but did not know how to get to the outside of a “hay maker” style hook from a much taller guy. Sounds like a DVD warrior to me!
    So let’s see if we can hook up later in the year! I see my surgeon in like a week and he should clear me to start very light weight training. We have weights here of all sizes. I cannot wait!
    Gracias as always amigo!

  758. Mr Libby, JKD has some good things as well BJJ. You are calling Kenpo J out, why? I travelled around the world and met some great fighters in Sport and streetfighting. JKD is fine for you, not for me. I trained on a Vunak seminar. He is good, by far not the best I met. TMA or every other Art will work by crosstraining. At the end of the day, not everybody can be a streetfighter. For example, Bill Wallace never had a streetfight. But he sure was one of the best in Kickboxing in his prime. You can’t find something on Thomas Born, check Horst Kalinowski on you tube, he had more steetfight than any other here in germany. He did TKD, Judo and Jiu Jitsu………….

  759. I called him out as have others because he is a lying devious little shit. He has posted very insulting things towards me as in “go put on your night gown grandma and go to bed.” He said I lied about a near fatal motorcycle accident which was insulting as I was almost killed, and nobody likes being called a liar. He posts under several screen names and has insulted high ranking people with decades of experience and called them liars also.
    I looked at this Horst Kalinowski. He has two demo videos in German that were ridiculous. Some ju jitsu with some aikido. The stuff was great if you are fighting a corpse.
    So you have shown me one guy, Thomas Born, who is big and likes titty bars, but no skills exhibited. And now another guy who looks marginal at best.
    So you say Vunak is not the best. He is vastly superior to anybody you have shown me so far. And when is the last time your guys trained a group like the Navy SEALS or NFL football lineman? This is what JKD does as shown in this link. Vunak has been in these!
    https://youtu.be/NIEYyraiaLU?list=PL2A048F50190331B4
    I have no idea what you do or who you are but you seem to have a really bad eye for martial arts! And are you KenpoJ’s mother? What concern is it of yours? He was called out for calling me a liar and a fraud. It is that simple.

  760. Mr. Libby, you had an accident. Why telling such a story? Horst Kalinowski trained the SEK and some special forces like the GSG 9, killed a man in a Streetfight, went to jail. He is and was a feersome fighter. He fought in the 1 . Lig in Judo. Trained boxing with Graciano Rocciciani. One of the best german Boxer. On Video you don’t see everthing. I watched that Vunak training. He is very good. But still not the best I have seen yet. You had a lot streetfights. It worked for you, thats all what counts. I trained in Amsterdam with Mr. Blooming, great man. No mystery just a pure fighter and he is in his 80′. Good luck for your shoulder, keep posting.

  761. No problem my friend.
    It’s an honor.
    Tu Amigo Siempre.

  762. First of all thanks for the concern for my shoulder! But the videos are so limited! And they are in German. I cannot understand what they are saying. So my analysis is from a very limited source.
    I told about my accident as I had to stop doing videos for awhile and just wanted people to know. Many people have requested more videos from me and I like doing them.

  763. Well Thomas Born seems like the real deal. I translated some stuff from the German and he was a paratrooper, on the German judo team, a karate champion, and did kick boxing . But it also seems that he was a gangster, so he probably had to try his fighting out. It also said he got shot and that, if translated properly, he was a pimp? It seems he was in the prostitute area a lot. A colorful guy.

  764. Used Nautilus machines yesterday.
    Typical old school Art Jonestype circuit.
    Sore as hell today.
    The entire full body circuit took 40 mins non stop.
    Excellent strength and cardio combo.
    You could do it with dumbells but the machines provide a stretch.
    Good luck with the weights.

  765. I like machines for their safety factors. It’s impossible to drop something on your head! I know Joe Rogan just busted up a shoulder with the kettle bells, but I don’t know how badly. We have a good gym near our house. I am sure he will start me on really light weights.

  766. Found this site by accident.
    As a 20 year devotee of American Kenpo I amnot happy with thesmear campaignsometaken againstEd Parker Sr.
    Be advised that I will be contacting Ed Jr. so that he
    addresses the slander issues against Ed Sr.

  767. This site has had over 75.000 hits. Do you honestly think he does not know about it? And what can he do? Nobody has lied. There has been no deception except by Kenpo people. And what could he do? Do Parting Wings with great fury or do Leaping Crane until he passes out ? Ed is dead, but like all famous people is open to different accounts of their past and an analysis of their works, both good and bad. Go tell him as nobody cares! And make sure you give him my name. It’s Robert Libby!
    And there have been top Kenpo people on here who have agreed with much of what has been said. You might want to think about that also!

  768. If there is any confusion, I am NOT Joshua Pestaner. That is probably obvious by what I’ve said and my writing style.

    The only people in this thread to whom I’ve been impolite are Kevin Harshman and Tom Bleecker and only after they instigated . I don’t accept that one’s birth year or time in a lousy martial art grants license to mistreat others. Mills Crenshaw is a 9th degree and has been in this thing for 60 years—so what? He deserved to get called on his rubbish too and good riddance to him.

    My only handle for this thread is the one I’m using now.
    I don’t do Kenpo IKCA or otherwise.

  769. I don’t wish to have my name published.
    Suffice it to state that I am a distant relative of the Parker’s.
    Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but what some of you have done to smear Ed, Sr. is the worse case that I have read, seen, or heard about.
    Was it really necessary to do this and continue to just to belittle what some of you feel was a lack of skill?
    Has anyone of you had diminished skill as a result of health issues?
    Mr. Libby is a very good example.
    It hurt me to have read through all of the negative remarks made here on Ed, Sr.
    I can only imagine how badly Ed, Jr. must be feeling knowing how some here have hated on his father.
    No human being should be subjected to such ridicule.
    If you take the pros and cons concerning Ed Parker and look into his history and career you will see that he did more to help promote the Martial Arts than anyone in his time.
    Let’s hope that when the few here who did not respect Ed pass on no one does to you what you have done to him.

    • You are entitled to your opinion. But the facts are out there. Ed told crazy stories of fights that never happened, probably never received a black belt, promoted himself to very high degrees, and he destroyed some lives and people were slandered by him many years ago and for doing nothing. He turned on those that were good to him. He threatened people and falsely made allegations of sexual misconduct against people and as in my case showed some real mental issues.
      And a major part of Ed Parker Sr.’s legacy will be of that of a liar. He will also be known as an incompetent martial artist with few if any skills. In many ways it was just all a mix of a con game and a cult. He just kept changing the game to suit his own ego which was very unhealthy. And many people have their lives reexamined through time. The problem is that when under the microscope Ed Parker Sr.’s just does not do very well! As they sometimes say “Kharma;s a bitch.” And now maybe he has too pay for his kharma!

  770. How would Parker have done against Adriano Emperado in a fight?
    Read that Emperado bros. were real bad ass street karate fighters
    Is Kajukenbo any good?

  771. I never studied kajukenbo and I do not know the Emperados. Unlike you I do not talk about what I do not know about. But I believe Bart Vale did and he said Parker never had a fight. So how could one know how Parker would do when he never had a fight and never competed? I also do not constantly try to dig up sources from people I have never met. also do not take things out of context. And I was never promoted by DVD. I use people that were actually involved like Jon Blumimg and others. I have never met Bluming but I find his comments very interesting.
    So how would Parker do in a fight? Maybe if he had the balls to fight me we would know! But he didn’t have the balls.
    Maybe Joshua you will someday grow up and take do real martial arts. Maybe someday you will stop being a slimy little agitator and loser! But I doubt it.

  772. OK….you got me.
    I guess your a lot sharper than I gave you credit for.
    I may as well answer your “amigo” Monfongos last rant.
    When you start to direct gutter language to me and my instructor it shows us that you have nothing of value to offer.
    There’s more to the Martial Arts than fighting especially when you and Libby are in the senior category.

  773. And who are you and what instructor are you talking about?
    But if you are using say Black Belt magazine as a reference who cares?
    And I made a mistake- I thought you were Joshua Pestaner. But it does not change my opinion. Are you upset over the Ed Parker comments? Also who cares! Get to the basics. It is a very very long thread, but please show me one video of Ed where he even looks dimly competent. When did he compete? Never. Who did he fight? Nobody. When did he train? Never. When did he teach? Rarely. So if you had Ed Parker as your instructor you would have to be pretty old too. As I have said before Ed Parker taught for about 2 hours total at the Santa Monica school in the 6 years I spent there. So please tell me where I am wrong?
    And what “gutter” language was directed at you? If you are studying Kenpo you are studying a very weak martial arts system.

  774. https://youtu.be/TtCooift71I
    Here is Ed doing something that I cannot figure out at 4:23. Please watch it. It is beyond bad. I think it is supposed to be some form of mass attack. Look at how bad the basics are. In literally every video I see of Ed Parker, and at any age, his skills are non-existent. And in this video he refers to himself as “a Honolulu street fighter.” Ed spread that myth just like the beating 5 sailors with clubs and knives who just happened to choose him to run off of the road.
    The only time he looks just okay is in slow motion. So please write me a defense for what is in this video. Please explain to me how a person with such questionable abilities is wearing a 10th degree black belt!

    • Donald Rosenberg

      Robert, Mr. Parker had Congestive Heart Failure, CHF. He had a GENETIC kidney failure which caused CHF. Gout was also related to his body not being able to properly use proteins with a pyrimidine ring as opposed to a purine ring structure so the crystals produced get deposited in the joints-also due to the kidneys not being able to eliminate them. So while Mr. Parker may have wanted to kick your a$$, he may not have been able to do so.
      The thing that really gets me about this discussion is form. I saw a forms competitor throw a side kick which looked PERFECT. I saw a fighter throw that same side kick and it looked AWFUL, until I saw him throw that kick in a fight. Then that awful kick was DEVASTATING. But I never saw that forms competitor as a fighter, except in the movies.

      So you said Leilani calls you up and says her husband has a bad heart, I can see that. Especially since both of them are dead and you could say whatever you want and they are unable to refute it.

  775. Libby,

    Agitator? Loser? You’re the only one with these distinctions. I’m on the outside just reading and doing my own thing happily. But you have to try to agitate me? That’s some loser shit to do.

    I was taking my GI the other day to the dry cleaners to fix a patch. An older man entered the store behind me and immediately noticed my GI and asked if I trained in martial arts. We started talking and he was pretty excited with the people I knew and knew of. He wanted to get together to train because he doesn’t have anyone close by to train with. I said sure of course. He offered to fix me up at no cost: he’s a personal trainer and biomechanics corrective therapist (I kind of made that name up. I can’t remember what it’s called.) But he’s a biomechanics specialist. I couldn’t have been more surprised and thrilled about it.

    I invited him to my place when I was privately training one of my students. He came on by to watch. I used him a few times to answer questions about fist/hand positions and posture through different sequences to see his thoughts about the power and strength of each. He was in total agreement with alterations I made. I’m not looking for compliments. What I wanted to hear more was why? I love learning more. And man he rattled off all these bone and muscle groups and terms I never heard of. It was very cool for my student and myself. The new guy(Tom) was pretty impressed with the way my new student looked and how much he knew after only 1 month with me. That’s cool, but I have high standards so I always expect my students to be pretty sharp. I love what I do, it works and its fun.

    Libby, get a life. Many many people know, have seen and admire Ed Parker. Who cares? You care! Most people don’t know you. Who cares? only You care!

    Why do you keep asking for videos of Ed looking good? Where your vids of you looking good? Please show some. We’ve been beating around the bush with that for a long time and you don’t have anything. I used to care, but honestly don’t give a rats ass anymore. It doesn’t exist and I think I can live with that. Ed Parker clips will always beat your clips(0).

    Let me beat you to the punch with the DVD warrior crap you like to say. You say it’s dangerous to make DVDs to learn self defense from… What were those DVDs by Paul Vunak? He’s teaching self defense through DVD right? Shit doesn’t work, right? He must have just done it for the money, right?…. Libby, don’t make your pitiful excuse for that. You just like the wagon. Keep doing you and again, get a life.

    • Once again you lied Joshua. I said DVDs could be dangerous for beginners and that unless you had a good background in that art it could be risky. So you as per normal twisted what I said. I said I used DVDs but in arts I am familiar with. And I said the grappling arts could be very risky and showed it with a black belt in BJJ choking a guy unconscious and the story of Kevin Sheldon getting his anterior cruciate ligament ripped out by a beginner. You see a difference between you and me is I support what I say and prove it!
      And at least I really tell people who I am and do not try to con people.
      So get over yourself. And as to being an agitator- GREAT! I will give you a list of martial arts agitators- Penn and Teller, James Randi, Bas Ruten, Joe Rogan, Bruce Lee, the Gracie brothers, Rickson Gracie chose off Japan, Chris Weidman, PFS. JKD, etc… I am in good company.
      So now stop trying to duck out. Where is a video of Kenpo working in anything in real time? My videos are getting popular. As I said even mainstream Kenpo guys are agreeing with me. So I hope your guy liked your patches and other cult symbols!
      And you have high standards! You train under a guy who boxed yet does not know a simple bob and weave or how to get to the outside of a hook! He is supposedly is a Kyokushinkai black belt and said “people don’t punch straight.” You never know what a person will do in a real fight. You and Greg Payne make assumptions and that is just what the techniques do.

  776. This is going nowhere.
    The only way to make or break the situation and move on may be to set up a “sit down” and iron out the differences or the last resort, tangle it out.
    We will be on here arguing for decades unless we come to some sort of conclusion or compromise.
    Unfortunately for you Joshua, I don’t think you have experienced the street to the degree me or Robert have.
    I’m pretty sure Robert’s use of the arts in real life surpasses mine, and I’ve been in numerous very serious altercations where the arts have both helped and twice failed me.
    That’s when I decided to eliminate BS from my training and include stuff that works.
    The one thing you NEVER addressed was Robert’s request for an apology.
    As a gesture of respect, you should have, and maybe things would not have heated up like they have.
    It would have served you tremendously and I would have been inclined to show you more respect.
    nonsense was going on back in the 70’s there would already have been broken bones and lost teeth, because if you research history Martial Arts arguments were normally handled by going toe to toe, for broke.
    Suck it up bro, offer an apology and then we can all move on.
    Your continued attitude and arrogance toward a Martial Arts Senior is not getting you any brownie points.
    And before you comment about Robert’s lack of respect toward Ed Parker.
    He’s earned HIS bro.
    By virtue of his decades in the arts and having experience real street battles.
    Slightly more than ten years in does not give you enough “time in” to argue with the man.
    Wrong or right of which he’s in point with ALL of his comments YOU have to LEARN to RESPECT YOUR SENIOR MARTIAL ARTISTS.
    Let’s see if you can suck it up and, come back on here to apologize.
    Let’s Monty Hall the stakes.
    You offer yours to Robert Libby and I will publicly apologize on this forum to you AND Greg Payne.
    Now Josh, that an offer you can’t refuse.

  777. Well, looks like Kenpo J aka Joshua won’t be apologizing.
    This kid is simply an arrogant know it all who needs to be disciplined.
    I’m done with the conversations.
    Won’t be posting anymore but will check in from time to time.
    Robert, post when your in the US.
    Also, if and when you decide to drop by and “reprimand” Kenpo J :—-) in Maryland.
    I will be there cause I might have to test out his “master” :—–) seafood Gregory Pain :———-)
    We can grab a beer after the “party” at the kenpo j Master form dojo.

  778. Robert, I finally had time to look for videos you have done to understand this thread better. Your videos say Bo Bo Morgan, but you introduced yourself as Ron Libby. Is Ron Morgan a pen name? I saw that you said that you taught Kenpo at the Santa Monica school for 7 years and in the 70’s and 80’s in this thread. Who awarded your Black Belt? I can understand your videos, as adding how you might teach Kenpo techniques, or change them, and even saying you believed that Kenpo didn’t work, but why would it take so long to realize that? It’s also not clear what the incident that happened at the gym and the telephone call. All I see is something was done there and a green belt called Mr. Parker and somehow the white belts were included which led to the story that you? Peed on your black belt certificate, and saying later that you? challenged Mr. Parker to a fight over that and later over the course of time, became vocally against everything that was attached to his Kenpo Karate system because of this incident. And how you came to perceive Kenpo. I haven’t looked at the other videos you’re presenting yet, but it looks like you’re editing Mr. Parker’s system. Do you have a name for your system? Did you ever participate at the Long Beach Internationals and win titles? I noticed the first one started in 1964, with Bruce Lee giving a demonstration in 1967. (He wasn’t one for honoring old martial artist per se, but he did have respect for genuine people) If you are editing Mr. Parker’s system and teaching students, why not try and put together your system, bring them to the Internationals? – Or have them participate in MMA etc? You seem to have a style that might best be expressed as ‘Brawling Kenpo’. I was always under the impression that Mr. Parker was teaching a self-defense style of the martial arts, and not necessarily a combat form or who is the toughest guy in the room at this time. The history of marital arts has shown those other styles shift between matches and individuals instantly. What I do remember about Mr. Parker, is a couple of iconic sayings, one being, “If you are in an argument and hit someone, they will never be inclined to resolve the argument with you willingly.” The other was, “If you hit someone first in an argument, that person will never be your friend.”
    Do you think it was possible that Mr. Parker, who knew you for over 7 years, thought the whole incident was borderline sociopathic and tricked you into him not fighting you because he cared for you in some way? You do remember he graduated with a degree in psychology? How can a person work, off and on, with someone for 7 years, and not have some kind of feelings for that person? Whatever happened, that’s the ins and outs of family life. You can keep knocking Ed, and be known as the guy who peed on your certificate, or you can work on the outskirts of Kenpo, inputting how you might change forms within, and build a culture attached to Mr. Parker’s, not at odds with. Gosh, you could even start your own ‘Brawling Kenpo Internationals’ where you live now and try and make a go of it. I’m sure it would be a success, with a lot of Kenpo people coming just to see how you might do things.

  779. You have a lot of facts sort of jumbled up. My videos are under Bobbo Morgan. Ron Morgan is a friend of mine and a student. I never peed on a black belt certificate as Ed never came up with one as he promised. He was going to promote me to 3rd for the work I had done for him/
    I had a desire to improve Kenpo for awhile but it got so cultish that it was hopeless. When I left Kenpo in the 1970s everything was fine. But the beef was started 100% by Ed, but really had nothing to do with this or what I have said and written. And Ed’s degree is in sociology and not psychology. No, I do not feel he tried to trick me into anything.
    And as you feel that emotions were involved I must agree. Me and many others had salvaged Ed from the brink of disaster, and that is no exaggeration. One morning I came to the school and there was yellow tape across the doors from the IRS and NOBODY was to enter but IRS people. So once we got the doors open we all got together to save Ed Parker. We all teamed up- me, Vic Leroux, Richard Carthew, and many others. We tore the schools apart, cleaned them from top to bottom, and repainted them. There were times that we could not make payroll so I would tell George Waite to pay the instructors and pay me later. And George never paid my taxes to the IRS as required by law. But my check reflected they had been taken out! That is how things went. So I got Santa Monica up and running and we were making money. Ed did talk to me in private and said to me that he owuld promote me to 3rd degree. But How could he believe the story of some guy who had not trained in years? All he had to do was ask me. And the story was completely unbelievable.
    But it has nothing to do with my postings. What I have shown and written about is addressed to all mart arts. I didn’t even know what YouTube was until about 3 years ago. I was so appalled at what I was seeing, and was inspired by Joe ROgan and Bas Ruten, so I started giving my opinions. One example I saw was Ermin Boztepe. He says he chose off the Gracies and has 200-0 for a fight record. The only video of him fighting is with William Cheung. So he beat up a guy who was old enough to be his father or older and half his size. And the fight was pure slop. I saw so many examples of martial arts insanity that I felt I could help people.
    Yes, I fought in the Internationals. My last time was 1973. I had a won a few matches. I drew a Tang Soo Do Norris black belt. The head referee was Pat Johnson, the black belts main instructor. Three of the corners were his friends and the fourth from Tae Kwan Do. I was killing the guy and couldn’t get a point. I kept driving him out of the ring but there was no point given to me for him getting driven out as per the rules. So in sudden death overtime he supposed;y punched me with a reverse punch as I was driving him out of the ring. The point was awarded by Pat Johnson. I almost got into it with Johnson over the match and told Johnson he was a real chickenshit and asked him to step outside with me- he declined my offer! I never fought in another tournament. But in the 60s I had some success in local tournaments like the Four Seasons in the green belt levels. But at one of those events I also changed course. I was fighting a kid from Lime Lama with the last name Esquivel. I was beating him but not getting the points I should have. He beat me in sudden death- his father was the head referee and awarded the point! It was pure bullshit! So I quit competing as I saw what crap tournaments were even at age 16. In 1973 my students from two schools asked me to compete so I did.

  780. I can’t believe my cousin has me making a comnent here.
    I want to fight the Pestener quy.
    I live in the Baltimore area.3-1-1 2 ko’s in the Golden Gloves.
    I’m 5″7, 155, 29.
    You want to come to my gym or yours?
    I will let you use all your karate moves but I will only box.
    I can prove your kick and punch garbage won’t help you.
    You can use all your street moves too.
    Let’s do this!
    We can post the results on the net.
    NOBODY is going to say karate is better than boxing.
    karateman Joshua I want to punch you out!
    Let’s do this!!!

    • Good luck with that! 90% cannot fight and have no balls. If you really box as I have no idea who you are you might kill him. Boxers are incredibly efficient punching machines. I once was asked who would win, the boxer or karate man, I told my student that boxers were “pain machines” as they could take pain and give pain! And they act like boxers have never seen a kick or dirty fighting!
      Good luck with your boxing!

  781. Pestener,
    Are we going to spar or not?
    Post your response ASAP.
    Are close are you to South Broadway in Baltimore?
    I need to reserve ring time so are you in or out?
    LET’S DO THIS!
    I will give you every possible advantage.
    All your karate stuff(kicks,punches, elbows, etc)and if you want I will use 16 OZ gloves you can use 6 OZ gloves.
    If you want to put your throwing and stuff that’s ok too.
    I am only going to use boxing and slugging.
    Heck, I don’t have a lot of real fight experience and have only boxed for 4 years, so you have more time in karate than I have as an amateur boxer.
    Come on, LET’S DO THIS!
    We live in the same area, close in age and weight, and if you beat me, I will be proof that you can really fight.
    LET’s DO THIS!
    My cuz thinks your a big talker, and turned me onto your bragging commentary here.
    He’s done karate for like 7 years.
    Thought he could fight until he came over to the gym and learned the hard way.
    Now, I would like to teach you, like I did him.
    LET’S DO THIS!
    If you don’t respond to me your gonna look like a pussy in front of all your karate buddies here.
    Irish Billy Mack vs. Karateman Pestener
    Amateur Boxer vs. Karate Expert-Pure Boxing vs. Anything Goes Karate
    South Broadway
    Baltimore, MD
    Date and Time: TBA
    LET’S DO THIS!!!!!

  782. So now I’m a Karate Man? Ok, that’s cool.

    I don’t think I’ve ever said that Karate is better than boxing, or boxing better than this or that.

    I am a huge boxing fan. I’m a proud owner of a Sugar Shane Mosley custom fitted dress coat he had. We’re near the same size. It fits me great! I’ve also met Amir Khan, Floyd Mayweather Jr and my favorite, Freddy Roach. I wish I wasn’t so nervous when I met Roach. I would have asked so many questions about his training philosophy and teaching techniques. I have a few of his Title Boxing DVDs.

    I study Cus D’Amato’s number system and method. I find it very cool and aspects of it mix well with how I train.

    I love to go out and watch the big fights. I look forward to a big GGG fight. I don’t know how Amir Khan is going to fare against Canelo. My initial thought is he’s going to get destroyed by Canelo. I didn’t like the Canelo-Mayweather fight. I didn’t mind Mayweather popping in and out, but for a big fight I would have hoped he really beat up Canelo to get the win. Canelo barely had a cut lip. Canelo-Cotto fight was pretty damn good.

    I think Bradley can beat up Pacquiao as long as he doesn’t twist his ankle AGAIN. 2nd fight he had it up until that point. I’m a big Teddy Atlas fan. I love seeing how he’s changing up Bradley.

    Mayweather is now training guys. I really look forward to seeing his products!

    Anyways, to think you want to challenge a pure Karateka who thinks Karate is above everything and doesn’t train in any boxing: that’s not me. I’ve put some thought into this “challenge.” I really don’t care to fight you, hurt you, or vice versa. I’m 31, good health, have a smart and beautiful wife, take care of my daughter during the week, teach self defense during the week, also in college taking classes to further my professional career.

    You’re 29 you say, and a golden gloves boxer with a 3-1-1 record. That means you’re an amateur boxer and probably have a full time job and other hobbies and maybe family. You like me, do not have a future in professional combat sports. You got life to worry about.

    If you like to come down and see what it is that I do in my training facility, come on in. We can play around a bit if you like. If you still want to just fight, it won’t happen there. We will take it somewhere else.

    Whether there’s a win-lose or draw I don’t care to publicize it. It’s not another notch on my belt. It’d just be another day. You’re not that different from me and there’s nothing to gain. If you’d like to talk more hit me up on my email: PUMA.Kenpo@gmail.com

    One thing I’ve said all along, boxing is not the only method that works in self defense. Does it work? Yes. Always? No. The same can be said of other martial arts practices. Any fight you have with a person is only a fight on an individiual ability level. It’s never like how we think about it in our minds: this style vs that style. It always comes down to the individuals.

  783. Dear Irish Irish Billy Mack,
    I hope you noticed the typical Pestaner long winded history lesson mixed with a dose of ass kissing and cowardice. He loves to play all sides. But he will not spar for real as he can’t. And he will not allow video footage as it will expose how bad he is and how useless his stuff is. But I would love to see you kick his punk ass which would not be hard.
    Good luck!

  784. “Pretender”, I mean Pestenar….LET’S DO THIS!!!
    I train on South Broadway, are you in or out?
    Not interested in coming to your facility to play around.
    LET’S DO THIS!!!
    I’m willing to give you every advantage where you can punch, kick, elbow, knee, and throw.
    I just use hands.
    LET’S DO THIS!!!
    Your right, I’m an amateur boxer with less training time in boxing than you have in karate.
    And since you bragged about your favorite boxer’s and some you’ve met, then you know what I’m coming with….LET’S DO THIS!!!
    I will only email you when you you either accept or refuse my invitation to fight for real at the gym.
    The reason I suggest mine over your facility is that there are people there to supervise the beating and step in if I’m clobbering you too much.
    Are you in or out?

  785. Dear Irish Billy Mack- your offer mirrors one I made to a Kenpo 4th degree black belt. He was in until he realized I was serious. And I was flying from TExas to Florida on my money. He then said if I showed he would have me arrested. So make sure you get a signed waiver and film it so it shows he agreed to spar with you. Pestaner is a snake and he could sue you. So cover your ass my friend!

  786. Dear Mr. Robert Libby:
    Thank you for your legal advice it is well taken.
    I will have witnesses at the gym overseeing this and I already had my aunt who was a secretary at a law firm outline a rough draft waiver.
    I’m an amateur novice boxer and he’s a black belt karate instructor with a school.
    The law would favor me over him, but I sure hope he’s not that much of a wus to pull a sissy move like that.
    IF he agrees(I’m praying)he will have to sign as I the waiver.
    He tried to impress me by dropping names of fighters and we all laughed at the gym.
    Read your first comment 4:26 AM and point on.
    I have offered to give him every advantage on a silver platter.
    He will understand technical brawling/boxing when it’s over.

  787. Originally you made it my choice to be your gym or mine. I do not care to do this at all so I said it would be done here somewhere.

    Now you say it has to be at your place. I don’t have time to do things I WANT TO DO, so this being something I don’t care to do, I will not go. If you have time on your hands and a whip to get you around, like I said, you can come. But no, I will not go up that way.

  788. I will take that as a “no”.
    The gym is run by pros buddy.
    It was just going to be me and you banging it out.
    The people that run the gym would have taken every precaution to make sure all was fair.
    Besides, I’m sure you would have brought some of your karate friends to watch.
    You wanted me to drop by your school to play spar, NOT INTO IT.
    You offered to take it somewhere else, what some back alley?
    That would be fine too.
    Reading stuff here looks like you are not highly respected by your own peers in karate.
    Don’t come back here posting your nonsense.
    I WON CAUSE YOU PUNKED OUT!
    Irish Billy vs. Pestenar challenge over.
    Winner: Irish Billy by default.
    Record now: 4-1-1, 2ko’s

  789. Michael Brooks

    Joshua, you seem like you have some common sense. Let me tell you what I’ve seen in boxing. When I was in Las Vegas, I used to train at a boxing gym and saw this incredible boxer that stood way above the rest. He was a middleweight and had just started but he had a pile driver left jab that would start at one end of the ring and end up in the ropes on the other side. Nobody could cut him off and I remember a much taller boxer was doing all he could to just get out of the way. I mentioned to Johnny, the owner of the club if I could spar with him and I remember him saying, “Michael, he’d kill you.” From what I later heard, nobody could beat him for awhile, but as his career progressed, and he faced more seasoned boxers, it was the boxing skill that counted. If he tagged you on that charge though… Later I ended up in California and remember training at a boxing gym close to my place that cost $10.00 a month and let me use the heavy bags. I happened to be in there when Jesse Burnett, a light heavyweight who was ranked in the top 10 for years, while holding a landscapers job and married, and his trainer asked the manager if I would be interested in sparing with him, since his training partner hadn’t come. I did, with full head gear and I believe 14 ounce gloves and I running about 3 to 5 miles a day, so I thought I probably can stay out of his way and not get hurt. His moves were incredible, compared to some of the other street boxers who showed up at times to train. A few of them really tried to hurt someone, instead of honing their skills or really understanding the art. I realized he could easily knock me out, but he didn’t punch too hard, except for good sharp jabs to my padded forehead. You don’t forget the feeling. He was very polite, even humble afterwards and never gloated in any way. I have always thought I had met a real champion and learned what it might mean to be a gentleman. Many times while I was at that gym for a short time in my life did I see the brawlers who quickly burned out in the ring or ended up in a flamboyant lifestyle of alcohol and the overuse of drugs, and never went anywhere. I hope you figure out a program of ethics that you incorporate with your karate classes. I’ve only ran across one Tae Kwon Do instructor, Master Um, who did that, when I dropped something off at his office one day. There is an old saying, there are many with the heart, but you need the class, or you end up at the bars telling your old glory stories. By the way, this thread led me to research MMA and found that they wear groin cups and they are not allowed to strike there. No wonder they don’t use a neutral bow very much…Heart and Class.

  790. Mr. Brooks,

    Osu!

    I definitely try to be humble as I teach and even when I spar with my students and everyone in general. You can tell fairly quickly when your skills exceed your opponents. My instructor was always very good about that when teaching me and I try to pass that on. Students and opponents get to feel what can be absorbed (but not damaging badly) and have an opportunity to learn from it and we continue.
    I’ve seen my ranked students take that and that makes me really proud. If they were just bad asses and had no respect and courtesy towards others that’d make me mad.

    Going through the pains of training often humbles us a lot. If you are humane (not sadistic), you remember the pains and frustrations and help those that are just starting the journey. Each one teach one.

    Winning all the time has not been a goal for me. Students need to feel small victories. We’re always still a bit like children in how we learn and adapt. Wins, breakthroughs, encouragements help us gain the confidence to grow greater. Sometimes my students say to me, “but you gave that to me.” Who cares? Next time you’ll know how to respond before you get in a more dangerous position. The point is for them to learn and execute as soon as possible. I’m still young at this instruction part of the arts, but I have seen a lot of growth with my students. I think it works. I still got a lot to learn

  791. Dear Irish Billy Mack, yes, he has chickened out. I will not even waste my time responding to Pestaner or Michael Brooks. Michael Brooks claims he has defeated 3 armed gunmen in his life. Need I say more about him? So they still have the bullshit flowing and all the excuses.
    Good luck to you!

  792. Pestener,
    Had a great sparring day yesterday.
    Went a total of 8 hard rounds with guys that are training for the Nationals.
    Then I set up my kindle and we all checked out some of your videos on the tube.
    We had more laughs than when we all went to see Kevin Hart live.
    Stick to your play tag sparring and teaching your loyal students.
    I don’t think you would have gotten by the very first round either.
    I see you have a history of picking on the older karate guys who post on this medium.
    It’s time to hang it up karate man Pestener.
    Big talk, little or no action= HUGE WUS!!!
    Leave these old guys alone, pick on somebody your own age.
    Oh before I forget.
    September Novice Boxing Open to EVERYONE.
    You might want to sign up and try your hands against guys with 6 or less months in the gym.
    And before you accuse me of picking on you, we have two guys from Tiger Schulman’s Karate that come box every now and then who happen to be pretty decent with their hands.
    I asked them about your style of karate and they told me that it is one of the weaker one’s for fighting because most of the posers in it don’t spar enough and when they do they look like shit.

  793. Michael Brooks

    Hello Joshua, you might like watching the movie, ‘Race’, about Jesse Owens, the Olympic champion. There is a scene where his coach is teaching him about noise. ‘It’s just noise, it can’t hurt you.’ You may run into noise during your career…Kenpo was designed to be the ultimate self-defense art. Boxing, I believe, was probably first started to let people be jerks and discern quickly who was the toughest at the moment. If it was the ultimate self-defense art, then everyone would learn the slips and weaves, bobs and feints, and everyone would be a champion and no one could knock the other person out. We know that is not true, as there is no perfect champion at all times, no matter what their art.. Joe Lewis, who was voted the #1 Karate fighter of all time, had lost matches before this title, which was awarded by his peers more likely because he was the best overall brawler at the time and not quite yet the best artist. Fighter’s incidentally, reach their peak muscle strength around 28 years of age and their reflexes and muscle strength begin to wane around and after 32 years of age. Kenpo offsets those weaknesses with intelligence for the few instances you’ll need to defend yourself or someone else.
    I looked up this boxer I saw train in Long Beach, California in the 1970’s. His name was Bruce Curry, and he had an incredible 315 -11 amateur fights. He was the world lightweight champion from 1983 to 1984 only. However he dropped out of school in the 9th grade and ended up in an insane asylum when he shot at his manager, Jesse Reid, just after an argument. Jesse Reid, was the manager of Jesse Burnett, who I mentioned in a previous post and he was always a polite manager that seemed very protective of his fighters that I could see, so go figure the other story? He didn’t allow crude or bully talk directed at his boxers. Maybe it was the lack of education, or refinement that kept him from lasting as a champion. Too often I heard the stories of the day’s tough guy, who ended up later in a drive by shooting, killing someone needlessly and literally throwing away lives but what really got to people, is when an innocent child or person was struck by a stray bullet. I guess the highbar should be ‘Champion’ or ‘Punk’?
    You might like to pick up a copy of Confucius ‘The Analects’. It’s a book on ethics and only 32 pages long. China had the longest running empires in history, mainly because they had civil servant tests about his book. It’s probably not a bad idea to require your students to eventually accomplish the feat of reading the Bible also. Less than 50% of the population have ever done that. I’m seen many fighters, even within Kenpo, who couldn’t see past their noses. Maybe that is the sublimes message that Mr. Parker left, someone who attempted to follow religion and who stayed married all his life.
    http://www.nytimes.com/1981/11/29/sports/age-is-a-boxer-s-natural-opponent.html

  794. Brooks,
    I see where you were going with this message.
    I detest your innuendos.
    Yup, I do have education.
    Jesse Reid is friends with the owner of the boxing gym where I train.
    If you are talking out your arse, speak directly to me.
    Get it off your chest.
    I’m no punk and my comments were not noise.
    Your friend Pestener has abused old karate guys on this forum.
    Read all of his stuff Brooks.
    I issued mine to him, but if you feel you want to take his place let me know.

  795. WOW! Irish Billy Mack LOOK OUT! Didn’t you read his posts! He has disarmed three armed gunmen. He never clarified if it was one at a time or three together. But with these BS artists who knows. And the fool first said if I sent him $5,000 he would look it up and prove it. Then after I said “NO” he said I weaseled out of a bet. No wager was ever made! This is how delusional this dummy is!
    But back to my main point- will you be able to sleep knowing that a really tough guy behind a keyboard has threatened you? But your point is valid. You give a kid 1 year of karate and one kid 6 months of boxing the boxer wins- case closed. And I know some martial arts work and a street fight is not a ring, but crap is still crap.
    Good luck with your boxing!

  796. Mr. Libby,
    I have read “Pretenders” posts and just read Brooks stuff.
    This Pestener guy looks to be a real jerk based on his ranting.
    Why does he offend the older karate guys here?
    If he is 1/3 as good as he brags to be he should have come down to the gym and showed me, right?
    I’m not some fluke acting all tough.
    But I believe that soon as I start clocking this guy he folds up real fast.
    If I were you I would not be bothered by what either of these two say.
    Thanks, I’ll be competing in the golden gloves open division this fall.

  797. What bothers me the most is that they teach garbage to somebody and that person gets hurt as it will not work. But if he had faith in it he would put it out there and he will not. And so if he will not get in a controlled environment with you what does that say to all his stories about fights and being a bouncer?
    Good luck in your fights!

  798. Irish Billy,

    I totally missed your post reply with the back alley thing being OK. Then let’s do it.

    My daughter has a virus right now:hand foot and mouth. Blisters and sores in her mouth and fevers. It’s been this way for a week and now after the docs it’s going to be a lil longer. No meds for it. She’s extremely irratable, can’t sleep, can’t eat. Which then also effects my wife and I. It’s very frustrating.

    I’m not able to train this week also because I got exams. It’s frustrating.

    I really don’t have time to go out. If I did, I’d come visit. But truly don’t have it. It’s frustrating.

    If you could come this week, I’d appreciate it. We can grab a couple Irish Car Bombs afterwards. Then I gotta run back to studying and taking care of my daughter.

    Give me a call. 240.671.6127

  799. I gotta get back to my daughter now.

    Thanks

  800. Michael Brooks

    Hello Joshua. Did you see my last post? I am beginning to think that most of these email names are just the same person. Robert Libby uses a pen name for his videos, so it’s not a stretch this might be happening. To me there is also a hint of some kind of similar substance abuse among these writers that is fueling the false statements and sloppy challenges. Very convenient that an amateur boxer has a cousin and wants to defend everyone’s honor and points out things on one side as insults, while ignoring their side’s insults and the main post insult. He’ll fight any Karate fighter with 16 ounce gloves and only use boxing at 5’7”? Humorous. Laughing out loud hysterical.
    THIS IS WHAT WE KNOW. A KENPO GREEN BELT, MARION BERMUDEZ, BEAT A GOLDEN GLOVES MALE BOXER. THIS WAS DOCUMENTED, AND THE LINK WAS POSTED HERE. SO MR. LIBBY’S STATEMENTS THAT KARATE WON’T WORK IN THE RING IS DEBUNKED.

  801. Michael Brooks

    Next, Mr. Libby vehemently stated that Mr. Parker couldn’t have fought off people with knives, weapons or guns, and that Kenpo Karate would never be able to do that. When I stated that it was possible, and was willing to offer proof and challenged him to a bet, he hemhawed about it wasn’t a bet, then was a bet, but he didn’t take it. (Wouldn’t someone jump at the chance to prove their position? Better yet, wouldn’t someone jump at the chance to make some money so they could really prove it?}
    Mr. Libby trolled on that there wasn’t clarification whether the incidents cited were separate or together. He might have tried the social skill of asking. There were 3 separate incidents with guns. 1 was a 38 caliber, 1 was a sawed off shotgun, and the other was a 45 caliber semi-automatic. Since I consider myself lucky, and the least of the least among Kenpo stylists, and just a Purple Belt, and taught not to brag; however I thought it appropriate, to bring these instances to light because of slurs against Mr. Parker’s prowess by Mr. Libby. Mr. Parker’s prowess is way more advanced than mine. I certainly didn’t want the incidents published, due to the sensitive nature of the victims involved. But to settle this so it isn’t published go to http://www.Newpapers.com and sign up for a free trial and look up: ‘Arizona Republic + April 7, 1987’ and look up the second edition, 2nd page of the Valley and State section – left hand side, about 3 stories down. This is a general description.
    There is another story the previous day in the Phoenix Gazette, April 6 in the Metro section titled ‘Man Risks Life Rescues Woman’ and a police report that states I was sitting on top of the suspect waiting for police. The Phoenix Gazette is out of business but the story can be obtained thru Inter Library Loans, between libraries of other states and the Phoenix Central Library. I will send you an old copy I have, if you like, Joshua. There are two separate incidents with knives, one with two individuals, one who used a knife, about 6 months before this gun incident. There is a police report that is available. The people involved received 1.8 years in prison for the attempted strong arm robbery, after I fought them off, and followed them down the street before a police officer was able to arrest them.
    SO MR. LIBBY’S STATEMENTS THAT KENPO KARATE CAN’T BE SUCCESSFUL AGAINST AN ARMED OPPONENT WITH A KNIFE IS DEBUNKED.

  802. Michael Brooks

    It’s useless to argue with Mr. Libby any further. He moves the bar while cussing all the way. This is how the story that he peed on his kenpo certificate started, I believe. He’s his own worst enemy. Like a drunk who starts a fight, if you knock them down they get back up. No matter how many times you beat them fair and square, they get back up, with more trash talk. The concept is covered even in the Bible, which advises against ever trying to convince a drunk about religion. Or most anything else for that matter. Mr. Parker had a statement he added about all his theories and forms: ‘But when pure flesh meets pure flesh – that is the best style’. I hope the best for you Mr. Libby.
    Jesse Burnet, the boxing trainer, would be about 70 years old by now and trains boxers in Las Vegas. Daniel Schulman was taught Mas Oyama’s karate in the beginning, if anyone wants to research that and him. Kyokushin karate full contact matches use no hand padding, and punches to the head are not allowed.

    • Has anybody ever referred to you as a pathological liar? I never peed on my black belt certificate and I am on videos showing my face and it is my real name. Kenpo people have admitted they know me. You are quite obviously mentally ill and need help. You can tell all the lies you want. But what I said was true. Ed Parker was a fraud and it is proven in lots of videos. And as to videos many say “where are videos of you fighting?” Benny Urquidez had 67 sanctioned fights, yet there are only like 7 or 8 videos of his real fights!
      SO go tell your bs stories to people dumb enough to believe them. And there was never any wager made so you are lying about tht also. All you said was “send me $5,000.” You are a nutcase!

  803. So Mr. Brooks, let’s see those newspaper articles you say exist! You can get a copy for free. But just like videos of Ed Parker looking like anything but a buffoon they do not exist. And just like Ed Parker you tried to scam me for $5,000. You are truly a nitwit!
    And I now have about 4,600 hits and many people liking what I present. I have people that have thanked me for setting them straight and even have said so on this thread.
    So where is proof of who you are? Where is proof that you know anything?

  804. Prestener I will be calling tomorrow or Thursday.
    This is for Mike Brooks.
    Listen scumbag don’t go making fun of my height and stop name dropping your not impressing me.
    Where are you from and how can I get in touch?
    You can stop bragging about Kenpo Green Belt Bermudez beating the male golden gloves fighter.
    I saw the video and if that boxer would have been me it would have been over in under a minute.
    I wasn’t impressed!!!
    So you know Jesse Burnett, whoppie!
    I once sparred Winky Wright and lasted 3 hard rounds, but you didn’t see me writing about it….until now.
    You must be better than the Long Island medium do assume that one person is on here writing stuff.
    Go get yourself a reality show!
    Now, since you choose to make fun of me, this is for you.
    Michael Brooks your a sleezy instigator.
    Your a BUM!!!
    A NEVER WAS!!!
    You want some?
    Post your interest.
    I won’t ask you for $5000, when I’m done beating you down, I’ll simply take your manhood.
    I will force you to wear panties, wig, dress.
    And then you’ll pose for a bunch of the Westies and provide them entertainment.
    Maybe you can also score a date with Caitlyn.
    Your a BUM Michael Brooks, a BUM!!!
    Now, Mrs. Brooks….Let’s DO this

  805. Bum Brooks,
    Let me know what you want to do.
    I have to address pestener first.
    Post your number so I can get in touch.
    Since you idolize pestener so much do what he did.
    Post your fucking telephone number I want to call you ASAP.
    Come on kenpo lavender belt Brooks, post the number….RIGHT NOW!!!

  806. Hey Brooks Michael The BUM,
    Where’s my answer big mouth?
    You fucking BUM!!!
    Let’s do this!
    Guess what we can be the 2016 version of 1975 Bermudez vs golden gloves.
    I’m a golden gloves boxer and your a kenpo lavender belt so all I need is for you to wear panties and a short wig so Brooks the bum can be transformed into a female kenpo fighter.
    You kenpo ass kissing BUM!
    You got the nerve to say your laughing cause I’m 5″7?
    You piece of shit.
    I’ll knock your ass out cold mf.
    Let’s see how you look laughing when I punch through your mouth and take out a bunch of your teeth and gums.
    You toothless BUM!!!

  807. Bum Brooks
    Bermundez fought novice gg you asshole!
    She won he first novice fight against another novice that had never fought Mr. KNOW IT ALL!
    Do your homework you dumb fuck and post the entire truth or none you bum.
    You were making it sound like she fought and beat a seasoned gg boxer in her debut, you butthole.
    Mr. Libby is right you have issues and they will be a lot worse if I punch you in that thick cranium of yours.
    Now, BUM post what you want to do about it.
    You’ll have to wait though, pestener comes first.
    You second because your a certified BUM Brooks!

  808. Brooks the Bum….here’s Billy!
    I will come here often so post punk.
    It’s little Billy, all 5″7 waiting on Michael Brooks soon to be toothless Brooks the BUM!!!
    Let’s do this!!!
    I’m gonna make you my bitch Brooks.
    You bum, you never was, you NOBODY!!!
    I hope your big and as bad as you think.
    You punk!

  809. It’s 6:33 AM Brooks.
    Just finished up my run
    Are you doing your kenpo moves in front of some mirror or maybe your feeling constipated and are trying to take an early morning dump.
    What are your stats bum?
    Just in case retard that means height, weight, and age.
    Your avoiding me like the plague ya BUM!
    I expect a response and soon Brooks.
    My cousin thinks your a very stupid person for mocking my height.
    Says you deserve for me to do you a huge favor by knocking out your rotten teeth that way you save on your dental deductible.
    The best reference as to weather I can back myself up will come from pestener.
    YA BUM!!!

  810. PEST,
    I’ll be calling but I want to know if you want to scrap somewhere in Upper Fells point?
    You accepted but remember I’m not coming to your karate club and if S Broadway is no good for you, then Upper Fells has lots of discreet places for us to “spar”.
    Post if you approve if not, an alternate location.
    I don’t want to waste too much time on the phone.

  811. I kept my end…called pestener a short while ago.
    Guess there won’t be anything going on there.
    He kept asking me my name and I told him, “they call me Irish Billy”.
    Billy Mack to be exact.
    After using up about 3 minutes of MY TIME, where I let pestener know I don’t like kenpo and didn’t appreciate what BUM BROOKS said about my height I hung up on him.
    It was a waste of time so I called pestener what I been calling Brooks, a BUM!
    Now it’s on to the big mouth Mike Brooks.
    I’m patiently waiting on that BUM.
    Guessing here that Mr. Libby is happy to know that he was right on about pestener and soon bum brooks.
    ALL TALK!!!

  812. Irish Billy or Irish Libby? hahaha

    1. calling from ‘private #’
    2. call using speakerphone and being at a good distance away from phone
    3. called a few minutes earlier and hung up when I answered
    4. voice sounds like an older white guy and sorry kinda special needs. Did not sound like a 29 year old male. (It sounded like Libby using a pretend voice and trying to use as few words as possible.
    5. talking about technology like a much older person
    6. phone goes in and out

    This was all hysterical and creepy at the same time. This sounded like a horrible play of voices and persona. I do a lot of voices and impersonations so I know. Can’t give a real name? “People call me Irish Billy.” hahahaha.

    I think you got tired of me laughing which is why I think you hung up.

    Fells Point is like the heart of Baltimore City and where it is the most touristy. Voice, accent, vocab, does not at all sound like a native Baltimore guy.

    If you sparred Winky, it was after he retired or the very near beginning of you starting to learn how to box. Don’t know the truth or relevance of that at all.

    Downtown Baltimore is beautiful and I don’t know many discreet places in that viscinity. But it’s a fight, who cares?

    How many different ways would I need to spell it out: I AM NOT GOING TO BALTIMORE. Especially to look for some creep that goes by the name Irish Billy. B-more is predominantly black. I don’t believe in Billy Bob’s existence. It’d be done in the metropolitan area of DC and not requiring me to go far, be out long and looking for a stupid alias.

    A 29 year old wouldn’t give a rat’s ass about some 70’s-80’s bouts between karatekas and boxers. How you get all up in arms and like getting loads from “Libby” is even stranger. A 29 year old wouldn’t give a rat’s ass for Libby or really anyone on the page.

    This is some whacked up non sense

  813. Michael Brooks

    Bob, what you’re not getting is that there are 1000’s, if not 10’s of 1000’s who like Ed Parker’s videos. They understand the nuances he showed with blinding speed. Try taking a stop watch to a strike by Ed and Benny Urquidez and comparing the speed. Bottom line, you’re over 60 years of age, and have never produced a world class fighter. THIS THREAD IS OVER. ROBERT LIBBY HAS NO CREDIBILITY, UNTIL HE CAN PRODUCE A RANKED FIGHTER IN KARATE TOURNAMENTS OR MMA THAT HE HAS TRAINED WITH HIS THEORIES.
    It does show imagination that you created an amateur boxer who has won 3 – 2minite round fights with 12 ounce gloves, head padding and a groin cup who wants to fight anyone suspected of insulting you. You notice he didn’t have the courage to show up at the other fellow’s gym, but wanted him to walk into a strange setting, didn’t say his name or gym or offer a neutral, 3rd party place to spar. And he’s a classy potty mouth poster. You encourage this, so what does that say about you Bob? You should be a writer. What next, posting for Joshua?
    Mr. Parker would never have sanctioned a street fight. Liability attaches, and even a relative could sue if someone was hurt in an unsanctioned fight. Remember the fighter who signed a waiver and jumped over oncoming cars, with a flying side kick for a TV program? After he missed, and hurt his foot, he sued even though he had signed a waiver. When you say you challenged Mr. Parker, we notice you didn’t actually have the courage to physically attack him? Makes you sound tough though. THIS THREAD IS OVER. ROBERT LIBBY HAS NO CREDIBILITY UNTIL HE CAN PRODUCE A RANKED FIGHTER HE HAS TRAINED WITH HIS THEORIES. DEBUNKED AGAIN!
    If you would, what was the conversation about from the white belts and the green belt at the health studio that caused the story, referenced in this thread?… Do you remember any of their names?… And who actually gave you your first black belt? Just my opinion Bob, you’ll get more people to look at your innovations to Kenpo techniques if you show some respect. Good luck in the future.

  814. This is for the two “lovers” pestener and brooks the bum.
    You are both senile to think that I’m Libby.
    I don’t give a shit about him either.
    But you two should get married.
    Pestener,
    I was calling from a gym using a calling card you little punk!
    How dare you say I’m an old man.
    I ran early this morning and took an accidental punch to the throat an hour before I called you, that’s why my voice sounded like it did.
    Yes, my first call dropped asshole…I was using a calling card from a pay phone inside a gym moron!!!
    You were shitting in your kenpo uniform, don’t dare deny it.
    I hung up on you cause you didn’t answer me when I asked you how and when you wanted to do this.
    Your not gonna waste my time like you have Libby and the other older karate guys you disrespect here.
    If I had not heard a young child in the background I would have ripped into you like I have Brooks the bum on this forum.
    And to you mother fucker brooks the bum who the hell are you to try and dissect what I’m writing about?
    You were the one that brought up some hag from the 70’s beating a boxer, so I looked into it.
    I would love to get my hands on you MORE than I would have on pestener.
    Your nothing but a low life scum bag piece of shit….YOUR A BUM BROOKS, A BUM!!!
    Peste, you and I both know you were shaking like a leaf.
    Be a man ADMIT IT!
    Like I said I held back cause I didn’t want to rip you a new one to the point that the kid in the background was hip to your FEAR and got them upset.
    Your kenpo sucks, brooks is a bum, and you should both go have an affair.
    I honestly think brooks the bum is in love with jossy pestener.

  815. Mr. Brooks,

    I did read your other posts. Hit me up on my email: PUMA. Kenpo@gmail.com

  816. Greetings Irish Billy. I had dealings with pestaner a while back, my advice is don’t bother with that “bum”. Iv backed Robert Libby’s position for a while to & iv shown everyone on this forum 100% respect including pestaner who only disrespected me in return. He crows on about his sick daughter & life schedule & i dont really care bout his personal shit, I thought we were talking martial arts? I got 4 kids but I don’t think any1 really needs to hear bout them rite? Pestaner clearly said he had better things to do so why is he still arguing the same crap under a different name. He’s got no honour, he’s got no game & wish he would jus disappear so we can hav a decent exchange on issues pertaining to Martial arts.

  817. WOW! The more I read from Kenpo people like you I realize how delusional you morons are. I never called you nor would I. I am in Thailand, and my number would show. It’s 081-881-6438. That is the only number I use and I do not need to “disguise” my voice.
    Joshua, you need psychiatric help as do Steve Shaffer, Mills Crenshaw, Kevin Harshman, Michael Brooks, and Mike Bennett. I am on videos and not hiding a thing. I have my face and voice on the Internet for all to see. I also challenged Ed Parker’s Kenpo and none would step up until I had a serious motorcycle accident- cowards! Why would I have to make things up for a pathetic punk like you? You are a fool and a joke as far as being a martial artist. It is easy to say Irish Billy is me but that is not the case. All you do is make excuses and name drop to make up for the weakness of your system and your character.
    The people I have mentioned have all shown themselves to be cowards and fools. None would face me and Mills was proven to be a flat out liar. And Mills is you all say set things straight. How? He is a liar!
    So maybe someday you will actually become a martial artist, but today is not the day!

  818. Michael Brooks

    Bob, show us some videos of people you have trained. There are issues with the 081 number being the number for telemarketers etc. Post your boxers’ name and gym where he trains. Give up Dorthy. THIS THREAD IS OVER. ROBERT LIBBY HAS NO CREDIBILITY, UNTIL HE CAN PRODUCE A RANKED FIGHTER IN KARATE TOURNAMENTS OR MMA THAT HE HAS TRAINED WITH HIS THEORIES.

  819. Again bums, I’m not Robert Libby.
    Believe me when I say that pestener WAS scared when I called.
    Yes, the first call dropped.
    No, I was not on a speaker.
    I used a calling card to call from a pay phone inside the gym.
    Yes, I may have sounded like an older person.
    I was sparring and took an accidental punch to the throat a while before calling you.
    Bums pestener and Brooks have no credibility how’s that?
    Mr Chen yes thanks pestener is a bs artist.
    When I called him and told him who I was, he almost shit.
    His laugh was a nervous laugh, a scared laugh.
    I controlled my words ONLY because I could hear a kid in the background.
    After asking the punk what he wanted to do and listening to his stutter laugh I told him I didn’t have time for his bs called him a bum and hung up.
    If pestener pushes me I will call him from my cell and rip into him without any concern to who might be listening.
    Both of these two are bums.
    But the more I read all of pestener posts here I can see he’s a disrespectful trouble maker.
    This BUM wouldn’t last with me in any environment.
    All talk.
    With my hand on the bible I say here that everything I posted about my call is true.
    He’s all mouth, a bum and a punk.

  820. Man you are desperate! Yes, it’s Thailand and lots of scams. So show me one ranked fighter from Paul Vunak, Ron Balicki, Dan Inosanto, or Larry Hartsell?
    And the only person on this thread who has admitted to using two names in a Kenpo person named Joshua Pestaner! Did you get that Joshua? You accused me of using 2 names and the only person who has admitted to it is you!
    I hope you realize that anybody reading this thread is being exposed to the new Kenpo- filled with liars and deceptive people. This is Ed Parker’s legacy. Just as he was a fraud so are his followers!
    Michael Brooks- show me one proof of you doing anything! You are an asshole and child just like Joshua Pestaner!

  821. att, ROBERT libby.,, excused myself from this forum a while back and have not posted,, as i saw no point to it,, i would appreciate you leaving my name out of your conversations unless you wish to address me personally,, thank you for your consideration in this

  822. Called Pestener to tell him not to mention my name here again, to stop confusing me with Robert Libby, and to pass on my message to his follower mike Brooks.
    Call went to voice mail so I left the message, and some of my language was not very nice either.
    Don’t have anymore to say about him, brook, or the kenpo karate fanatics here.
    Like I also told him I don’t particularly like karate and have 0 respect for talkers.
    Pestener and Brooks are bums, BUMS!!!!

    My t

  823. Michael Brooks

    Darn, we were so hoping you told us your name and what gym you train out of.

  824. Chen – behind the crude curtain is ta da – Robert Libby! Mr. Libby, isn’t this more like the story? You were teaching for Mr. Parker at a health club when a green belt there called Mr. Parker and said you were attempting to take his students away, saying you knew more and better, so he fired you. This led to a story that you peed on your black belt certificate and challenged him to a fight, when you knew that he couldn’t legally fight you as a master instructor and not be held liable for any damage. Anyway you slice it, you never made anything of yourself in the martial arts world, and have no students to show for it. All you have is your anger and a handful of videos of how you would do Mr. Parker’s kenpo techniques. Chinese Kenpo Karate Scandal indeed. ‘I’ve heard many tales of many martial arts that were, shall we say, less than honorable, but the one I heard about Chinese Kenpo Karate, however, is one of the worst I have heard.’… By Mr. Libby with no lineage of students to show in 60 years and no plans of passing the art. Do you always let other people do your job for you, while you act like the know it all? The other people you referenced in your last post, in defense of your lack of teaching or student credits, are noted martial arts with many present and former students and skills within the martial arts community – the public, the military, local police and police departments. The majority of hits on this site are not in favor of you, even with the apparent bolstering of it with made up names and facts. Try researching the effect that Danny Isosanto had. He studied Kenpo under Mr. Parker and evolved. You devolve.
    Notable students
    Dan Inosanto’s notable students include:
    Diana Lee Inosanto: daughter, actress, stuntwoman, writer and producer[4][5]
    Brandon Lee: deceased son of the late Bruce Lee[5]
    Ron Balicki: stuntman, actor, producer, and son-in-law of Dan Inosanto[4]
    Chai Sirisute: founder of the Thai Boxing Association of the USA
    Richard Bustillo: martial arts instructor and founder of the IMB Academy in Torrance, CA
    Denzel Washington: Academy Award-winning actor, director, producer[6]
    Edgar Sulite: founder and creator of Lameco Eskrima[7]
    Larry Hartsell: deceased martial arts teacher and author[8]
    Marc “Crafty Dog” Denny: one of the three founders of the Dog Brothers and founder of Dog Brothers Martial Arts
    Burton Richardson: One of the Original Dog Brothers and founder of JKD Unlimited[9]
    Paul Vunak: founder of Progressive Fighting Systems, Helped to popularize Defanging the snake[10]
    Jeff Imada: stuntman, actor, fight choreographer[4][11](The Crow, Bourne series, Iron Man 2, The Green Hornet (2011), Hanna)[12]
    Forest Whitaker: Academy Award-winning actor, producer, director, writer
    Nathan Jung: actor, stuntman known for his height cast frequently in “heavy” roles
    Erik Paulson: Shooto champion, trainer to UFC fighters and founder of Combat Submission Wrestling (CSW)[13]
    Damon Caro: actor, stunt coordinator, fight choreographer, 2nd unit director (Fight Club, 300, Bourne series, Watchmen, Man of Steel, Batman v Superman)[14]
    Graciela Casillas-Tortorelli[15]
    Emil Martirossian[16]
    Ernest Emerson[17] Martial artist and custom knife manufacturer.
    Ricky Nelson[18]
    Steve Grody[19]
    Jerry Poteet[4][8]
    Yorinaga Nakamura: Shoot Wrestler
    Valentine Espiricueta: Founder of the Applied Sport Martial Arts Program, NFL Consultant, Two-Time World Eskrima-Kali-Arnis World Champion[20]
    Kevin Seaman: Jeet Kune Do/ Kali Full Instructor in Syracuse, NY[21][22]
    Greg Nelson: MMA Coach[23]
    Kyle Smith, Tech-support WonderBoy, Oxford Industries Inc.
    Anderson Silva: MMA Coach[24]
    Marc McFann: JKD/ Kali Full Instructor in Fayetteville, Arkansas. Founder of Unified Fighting Arts
    Chris Kent: JKD and Kali/Escrima Instructor/Performance Development Specialist/Consultant/Author/Speaker

    • Man you are a liar! The truth is that me and many others saved Ed Parker’s ass! When I left I took 2 students as they said they were leaving anyway. And I built up the Santa Monica school and made it a money maker. I taught my own stuff at the health club and had nothing to do with Parker.
      Your “instincts” are pure bullshit. And none of the people you listed are MMA fighters which seems to be your benchmark. So you can do a Google search- so what? What are your credentials and who are you? You are a pathological liar who sits behind a keyboard and slanders people- big deal. I am at least out in the open for all to see. You are a typical Kenpo koward! And most of the people you listed have nothing to do with Ed Parker.
      So name me Ed’s martial arts accomplishments. Most were in promotion and sales. He never competed, never had a fight, and almost never taught. He was lazy and developed a crap system to fleece people! And these facts are mentioned by many:
      I chose Ed Parker off to a bare knuckle fight with no rules- he hid behind his wife like a coward
      Several people on this thread have verified it
      Tom Bleecker called me a “ferocious fighter”- why?
      Not one Kenpo person out of the EPAK lineage met my challenge- why?
      Kenpo people are cult followers and delusional. It is one of the weakest martial arts systems and filled with gaps in logic
      And video evidence proves that Ed Parker was a clown at best.
      Now go gag on a shotgun. Or meet my challenge when I come to the states. But you never will as you are a coward!

  825. My instinct says you’re just sitting in a bar getting drunk every night, posting and passing your laptop to your other drinking buddies. A sad ending to this blog. But the story was sad and dishonorable to start out with.

  826. Brooks,
    PAL, Concrete Jungle, Mackies.
    I drink on occasion, so what?
    And I have more honor in
    my pinkie than You And Pester together.
    Irish Billy Mack,
    Remember me, I’m the guy that called you a bum!

  827. This is a general response and question to all. Many of you claim that Ed Parker was so great. So where is one video of him looking talented? I have asked for that and not one exists. Instead all there are is videos of him looking weak and inept- falling on Frank Trejo, looking like a fool on the Late Late Show in Ireland, and a complete untalented buffoon on The Lucy Show. I have shown why some Kenpo techniques cannot work and how stupid they are, yet not one Kenpo person has done a meaningful counter argument. In fact those that have tried or commented agree with me. Steve Shaffer said Clutiching Feathers was not realistic. Dynamic Kenpo said my tutorials were accurate as to why Kenpo does not work. So how is it with all these Kenpo people out there that not one can realistically challenge my ideas? Why do they wind up agreeing with me?
    The answer is that unlike Ed Parker I actually trained, actually got in the ring and learned by getting my ass kicked, and had real street fights.
    To use Irish Billy Mack’s term Ed Parker was a bum. He was a con man and many jumped on board as part of that con!
    So where is a video or a valid response to my critiques?

  828. Great post Robert Libby!
    The two bums, peter and brooks made fun of me and I gave them what they deserved.
    This guy brooks made fun of me being 5″7 and it pissed me off.
    When not fighting in the gloves my regular weight is around 180.
    My goal is to see how I do in the open GG with more experienced fighters.
    The only thing pester had right is that I have a good job, a nice girl, and no desire to leave that to try the pros.
    I would’t do well at the top tier, but have been told I’m good enough to do well in open GG competetion.
    While karate and that type stuff I don’t like, I like checking out kickboxing and mma.
    We have guys from those sports who come to our gym to learn proper boxing.
    Most have VERY BAD skills, ALL are pretty tough because they are in good shape.
    I taken time to see kenpo on youtube and I don’t seehow it could work.
    ALl these fancy moves and a simple, hard punch to the face(eyes, check, jaw)would easily drop those guys.
    The parker guy I just don’t know.
    Saw old lucy clip and both of them look like crap.
    Guess you guys(ma)have a lot of rivary going on.
    Check your out on youtube and you look like one tough sob.
    I’m coming here a few time weekly to make sure peter and brook don’t bring me up again.

  829. Well thank you for that. But much of what I teach is filth from boxing principles. I had a middleweight hand me my ass a long time ago and rather than deny what happened I wanted to learn how to do what he did.
    It is funny that George St. Pierre, who is a great champion, and who credits karate, is going to Freddie Roach for training. And Ronda Rousey has gone to a pure boxing coach from what I have been told.
    Too many MA people make excuses rather than look for answers. Later I will post an American Kenpo video that I will want the people watching to slow to 0.25 speed. The hits miss by a foot or more, deplorable body mechanics, it’s all arm punching, and the hand positions never fully transition from strike to strike so there could be hand injuries. Yet they are like 4th. degree black belts or higher= pathetic!
    Good luck in your GG boxing matches!

  830. https://youtu.be/9V7h6Yypv5I
    This is a link to AKKI Kenpo Karate Randall McKay, Paul Mills Kenpo Karate.
    Please watch it at 0.25 speed. Also notice that the person that is the aggressor just stands there and does nothing to defend himself. It is as useful as slapping around a pole! Please also notice strikes that miss by a foot or more and that it is all arm punching, slapping (and some slapping is very effective but Kenpo people do not know how to do it), kicks that are not even close to the target, and sound effects (gi slapping and noises from their mouths!).
    Now remember that this is top tier stuff, yet it is complete horseshit! And yes, I used to do this. Then after a boxer ANNIHILATED me I changed. All these fancy techniques are pure crap made to fill manuals and sell DVDs. It is also meant to fool the uninformed audience. Yes, it looks and sounds great to those that do not know anything. And hey, he has a 7th. degree black belt so he must be good!
    I may have posted this before but as this is so long it will be there for people that come to the end of this!

  831. Okay, this is why I do this stuff.
    https://youtu.be/z_6D13e9kmk
    In this video he refers to the “Kenpo unbreakable fist.” No fist is unbreakable so he is delusional, but his students will believe this shit. And the thumb wrapped around the first two fingers is 50% stronger as proven at the University of Utah by an evolutionary biologist.
    I look at scientific studies and always have. TMA people just keep putting out bad science and ideas. Joshua Pestaner and IKCA apparently use the thumb on top idea which is wrong! But they never study sports medicine as I have (but just as a layman).
    From the actual study:
    “Carrier first got his idea about fist evolution after working on sperm whales. He suggested that the males use a big waxy organ in their heads as battering rams during fights. He was discussing the idea with colleague Frank Fish, who didn’t buy it. Fish raised his fist and said, “I can hit you in the face with this, but that is not what it evolved for.”
    Carrier started wondering about the forces acting upon a punching fist. First, he and Morgan asked boxers and martial artists to lash out at a punching bag with either open palms or closed fists, while recording the strikes with an accelerometer. To their surprise, both techniques delivered the same amount of force.
    Next, they asked the volunteers to press their fists against a force-measuring instrument, with their hands rolled into different positions (see above). They showed that the main knuckle joint of the index finger is twice as stiff if the fingers are properly tucked into the palm (B vs. C), and twice as stiff again if the thumb wraps around the fingers (A vs. B). This classic fist prevents the fingers from moving too much during a punch, and the knuckle from overextending. It also transmits twice as much force into the wrist than the less supported shapes, again saving the finger bones from undue stresses.
    So, the story goes like this: Our male ancestors fought each other for mating rights. Their hand proportions evolved from those of a typical ape, to those that allowed them to whack each other without breaking their hands. With their non-self-destructing punches, our fore-fore-fore-forefathers got more sex, and gradually their hands attained the proportions of a modern human’s.
    The ability to more dextrously wield tools might have also played a role, but Carrier and Morgan argue that there are many ways that an ape-like hand could have changed into one that was good for manipulating tools. For example, the thumb could have grown longer, or the fingers could have shortened without also shortening the palm. Both would have given a precise grip. As it happens, the route that we took is the only one that also provides a strong fist.”

  832. Michael Brooks

    And my little wayward Bob. This is the true story on James Wong’s website about how he came to meet Mr. Parker, while Mr. Parker was already writing a book with his 61 beginner forms. Mr. Wong said that he wouldn’t sign a contract with his input, because it was a bad business deal in his opinion. Nothing more. There is no indication that Mr. Wong had any animousity towards Mr. Parker, in fact, Mr. Parker took him in and let him stay at his studio and his home during his visit from San Francisco. Mr. Wong’s wife and children lived there. Some of Mr. Parker’s brown belts helped form a school for Mr. Wong then in L.A.
    This is the word for word story of what happened on Mr. Wong’s website. He has passed on, but his students continue to teach an overall view of the martial arts.
    ” One evening, he met a group of Kenpo Karate artists who were visiting from Los Angeles. In the summer of 1960, James, along with a group of professor Lau Bin’s students, went to Los Angeles, staying with a prominent Kenpo Karate instructor in Pasadena. “I got enticed by this teacher, who was writing a book on Chinese martial arts,” says James, who prefers not to identify the man by name. The instructor asked James if he could help him write the book.
    After assuring his family of his plans, he returned to Pasadena and assisted the instructor on the book. James also began helping to teach the higher belt classes in the Pasadena gym, for free. James had never thought of himself as a teacher, but, as he reasons, “I was staying there, and I wasn’t really doing anything.” Actually, he was giving the instructor information for his book, and he was having impact in his classes. “You look at these students,” he says, “and they’re all fast and sloppy. So I slowed them down and taught them forms.”
    With the book finished, James went home to San Francisco, where he learned that the Pasadena instructor had found a publisher. However, according to James, it was a bad deal, and he declined to sign the contract. “So I was going to go back to San Francisco, and all these brown belt class students, the higher-ranked students, said, ‘Don’t go back. We’ll find another place to open up, and you can teach there.’”
    James decided to move south, and, in 1961, the Academy of Karate Kung Fu opened in a large storefront at 5440 Hollywood Boulevard.”
    Maybe someday Mr. Libby, you can stop taking life and always turning it into something dirty. ANOTHER STORY OF MR. LIBBY’S DEBUNKED.

  833. Michael Brooks

    Heh Joshua, I looked at some of your Kenpo schools videos and the tire training tool is a great idea. I noticed you’re a smaller person with thin wrists, (which I also have) but that would only mean you needed to hit twice as much to achieve the power damage of a much larger opponent. But you do have really powerful kicks.

  834. Michael Brooks

    I contacted the Baltimore Boxing Club on Broadway. They would never allow a fight in their rings with a martial artist with no pads against an amateur boxer due to liability issues.

  835. The actually Jimmy W. Woo story is not mine. I never posted but I know that in the 1960s it was openly known that Ed took the book from Jimmy.
    Jimmy W. Woo does not have a website. I believe your article is from the Tracy Brother’s website.
    You are also playing fast and loose with history and putting times out of sequence. I trained under Jimmy. Have you ever even met him? So once again a Kenpo practitioner proves they can lie to protect the cult! Nice try! You do exactly what all propagandists do- just keep repeating lies and hope people will pick this up midstream and not check!
    So you have debunked nothing. Please cite your source or shut the fuck up!
    Where were you when I issued a challenge? You are a lunatic and a clown!

  836. Who did you speak to?
    Of course they may say that cause they don’t know
    who you are.
    Several beefs have been taken care of at BBC.
    Besides, I train at two other gyms bud.
    You think a total stranger calling and asking about a boxer vs karate bare fist or no rules scrap is gonna be told sure we have em All the time!
    Go visit BBC, workout for a few months so you can see it happen on occasion.
    Now, I asked to be kept outof the debates here.
    If your that interested in what is on isnt allowed at BBC let me know when
    you can drop by Brook.

    • Dear Irish Billy Mack- he will never reveal himself. He is a keyboard koward that never called anybody! Just like Joshua Pestaner used to names and thought he was so crafty this asshole will just post to piss people off!
      Good luck in your fights!

  837. kenpokarate.com/1960-1962.html
    This is from the Tracy Brothers website.
    If it does not work just Google Tracy Brothers on Ed Parker and Jimmy Woo. It’s called “Setting Kenpo History Straight.
    Also, for any new people there are 2 Jimmy Woos. One is Jimmy Wing Woo, the one referred to here. And there is Jimmy H. Woo of Kung Fu San Soo.
    You see Michael it is so easy to check out your lies and bullshit! And the Tracy’s were there! And they imply that Ed screwed Jimmy out of the book deal! But as it says Jimmy got the bulk of the students. I personally do not agree with Jimmy’s system but I will say that the Jimmy I knew was a quiet man of great integrity and dedication. He is a real credit to martial arts!
    So maybe once in awhile check your facts! Also remember that I was actually there in the 1960s and 70s! You were not!

  838. Here the Tracy’s say Jimmy did not know of any book deal! And Ed just got rid of him, yet the students seemed more concerned with Jimmy! Ed seems to have a }habit” of getting rid of people and then making up stories as to why! And ripping people off! The following is from the Tracys:
    NOTE: When my brother Al and I met with James Wing Woo in 1997, I told James Wing Woo what Ed Parker had told me about how they parted. Woo said it didn’t happen to him; he had heard about Ed doing that to another Woo but it was not him. Woo remembered things quite differently. But then what I had previously written was what Ed Parker had told me, and it placed Woo in a subservient, servile, position to Ed Parker. And I see no reason to repeat the details here.
    According to Woo the reason he and Parker parted company is because Parker did not have a publisher for his book. The fact is, Ed had a publisher before he began writing the book. A Vice President at Prentice Hall was a Mormon and close friend of Ed Parker. The book deal was set from the beginning. Ed told me in April 1960 that he had a deal with Prentice Hall to write a book on Chinese Karate. That was two months before Ed Parker met Woo. Now, whether Ed Parker told Woo about the book deal is another matter.
    James Wing Woo, also says he opened his school in 1962, but my brothers, Al and Jim Tracy went to see him at his school on Hollywood Blvd. shortly after the split with Parker in 1961, and Al and I went to see him at his school when I returned to California in late 1961.
    Ed Parker told me he told Woo on a Wednesday that he was out. He said this was a surprise to Woo. Woo called one of Ed’s black belts who came and got him. All of the black belts met that night along with most of the brown belts and high ranking white belts. None of Ed’s Mormon students were knew anything about it. Ed’s students decided in that meeting they would find a place for Woo to teach, and they would support him. The next day, Thursday, was a meeting of the promotion committee, on which Al and Jim (Ikkyus) were members. They were the only ones who showed up for the meeting, and Ed told them they would be promoted to Shodan in the next senior advanced class (which would be the following Tuesday). Neither they nor Ed had any idea as to why the other black belts did not come. It was not until the following week that Ed discovered that all his high ranking belts (except Al and Jim) had left him.
    Everything appears to have happened in just one or two days. Woo was probably planning on staying with Ed for another year or at least a few months and then taking the students with him, along with the new schools Parker and Woo had planned on opening. There were no whispers, no secret looks – nothing. James Ibrao, who had gone on tour with the Harlem Globetrotters just the week before, didn’t even know about the split until he returned from tour several weeks later. As far as I know, no one ever discussed the split before it happened.

  839. More from the Tracys- You will notice that the Tracy site says Mills had no rank and gave himself a 3rd. black and Ed a 5th. My, how interesting!
    “In late December Ed told me about the new International Kenpo Karate Association, but he was worried because only Mills Crenshaw had signed on. It was not apparent for about 6 months that Mills had in fact been instrumental in creating the IKKA. And while there was no Kenpo Karate Association of America record of Mills Crenshaw ever having been promoted to any rank, he, had promoted Ed Parker to Godan, and himself to Sandan.”
    I think I will promote myself to 20th. degree black belt! And Mills Crenshaw is the guy some of you say “set things straight?” How laughable!

  840. Michael Brooks

    Robert, get your facts straight and stop being a drunk. Any order. This is Jimmy Woo’s website where I got the information. Who should people believe, you or him? Did you have a substance abuse problem there? You may continue downgrading Kenpo but that’s your sickness, which you didn’t explain why a green belt would call Mr. Parker and why he would get involved in a health club that was yours. If you’re challenging me and everyone else who calls you on the carpet, start talking some money or stop wasting our time. And then there’s your bum shoulder to consider. Finally, Mr. Parker’s hand speed is evident in the video you reference, you just talk your way thru the video I saw. Mr. Parker fell down – so did Muhammad Ali; but they get up. Get over what happened, you’re attracting karma. http://jameswingwoo.net/

    • This is a site about Jimmy Woo and not by Jimmy Woo you idiot! Now post something of what you do!
      Where were you when I put out a challenge? Hiding like Ed Parker did behind Lelani’s dress? Ed was a gutless coward and con man!
      And once again the lies keep coming. I never said the health club was mine. All you do is take a few basic facts and then distort them to fit your insanity. How about you say this to my face when I come out? All you are is a gutless cheap shot artist with no balls! Where is the article of you disarming gunmen? We’ll never see that piece of horse shit! Where is a video of you doing anything!
      And all video evidence shows Ed as a piss poor martial artist!
      You are a pathological liar! Now prove one thing you say!

      • Michael Brooks

        Robert, I seriously advise this might be the time to take up some counseling. Are you a complete rummy, and didn’t notice the site is Jimmy Woo’s school? And click on the link of ‘A Brief History?’ You can’t keep making up your own histories. We’ve already presented our proofs that you’re a lowlife and your facts are wack and proof that kenpo works with weapons. But hey, have another drink and ruin your life even more. There was one thing that came out of this I found interesting, in the brief history, Jimmy mentioned the Kenpo stylists were fast but sloppy and he slowed them down and taught them forms. That explains to me why Mr. Parker looked sloppy on the kick on the Lucy Ball show. Not that big a deal.

    • Oh, and Michael Brooks, I am fairly sure you are Joshua Pestaner! But if you aren’t please submit the proof of what you say:
      A video of you doing anything or a critique of why I am wrong on Kenpo in video format
      A video of Ed Parker looking like anything but a fool
      The article you say exists of you disarming a gunman or is it gunmen? ANy proof at all that you have disarmed somebody. And you never clarified if it is 1 gunman at three different times or three together. But either way the story is bullshit! Just like the Ed Parker “5 guys with knives and clubs story.”
      By the way, when the Kenpo peole themselves are saying I am right on my critiques of Kenpo you might want to pay attention!
      Now come out from the shadows or mommy may throw you out of the basement!

    • Ed Parker with Nick Adams and Joe Hyams- Please watch it at regular speed and then at 0.25- Ed’s basics are atrocious!
      https://youtu.be/bVJuCfBIZ9M?list=PLE59B9CB914A0419B
      Here Ed and Joe Hyams attacks Nick Adams- it is laughable!
      https://youtu.be/Zf8d-WrfvZE?list=PLE59B9CB914A0419B
      So once again the only videos of Ed Parker show him as a highly unskilled martial artist! Please show me a video where he looks even passable!
      You will notice in the clips that they use all the “Kenpo assumptions”- “I’d take his head off and then I’d break his elbow.” When you train at a real MA school you never hear that! Real fighters know that there are too many variables and you never know how the person will react!
      Also, like all cults, rather than critique what I have done analytically they attack me personally. THANK YOU! That means I am winning!
      So Michael Brooks, where is your video or videos? We will never see those!

  841. A comment from a Gracie black belt on Bad Kenpo 7
    Way too much common sense! I’m shocked that you don’t get death threats from the cults….I mean, “traditional martial arts” Just the talk about the “dead” training is worth its weight in gold and kills off about 90% of all martial arts. I also notice that I teach the same escape from the headlock.?
    From Bad Kenpo 5- I love how he calls Kenpo “stupid and fake”.
    Load down more videos I really enjoy them, reality is what your talking, I’m a blackbelt in kenpo, and the techniques are stupid and fake.. who ever doesn’t agree with this videos has never been in a real fight..
    This is from Kinetic Dragon Kenpo and Bad Kenpo 4
    Hello there. With all do respect and If I may say so. You are politically incorrect Sir but you are right on target. I say these as a compliment to your efforts on your Tutorials. Good day.?
    You see Michael Brooks I am being complimented and agreed with even by Ed Parker Kenpo people! I at least have the balls to put out what I believe.
    So why don;t you put something out you gutless coward! But just like so many Kenpo people you will hide and never take a risk. As I said before you are a gutless coward and a liar. And Kenpo is full of them- Brad Bode, Ron Pops Chapel, Mills Crenshaw, and others. And they are liars as they perpetuate the lies of Kenpo and make money fleecing people!
    Now put up or shut up! Now post some videos of yours!

  842. Brook,
    I’ll start talking money.
    Is 5K adequate?
    Will/can you match it?
    You like picking on guys who have surgery issues…you BUM!!!
    Sure Libby can do enough of a number on a bum like you anyway.
    I challenged your boyfriend pesterner.
    Then you come here to get involved and start talking shit.
    You and pester bust Libby balls cause you both know he’s in Asia, what kind of bull is that?
    I am challenging you Mike Brooks and I got 5k that needs to be matched.
    Now, jerk off accept or punk out just like your kenpo idol pestener.
    You and her are all hot air!
    You talk so much shit I’m gagging from the stench coming out of your mouths.
    Forget, BBC.
    We can handle business elsewhere.
    I’ll have a release drawn up.
    10K winner takes all and you Brooks the bum can choose the rules and regulations.
    I’m handing it to you on a silver platter.
    We are now going to find out if your for real or just a talker.
    I’m waiting for your response Brooks…and either way your nothing but a BUM!!!!

    • Michael Brooks

      Since you’re the challenger, give me your home address to verify if you’re real. I have a choice of where we would do this. And you might consider taking up a more catchy name, like Billy Mack the Fairy. Think about taking up Kenpo. There shorter experts are not height challenged.

  843. WOW! That got me perked up!
    So come on Michael Brooks! This is your big chance! Surely Irish Billy Mack is not as scary or dangerous as 3 gunmen- he should be a piece of cake for you! You are a Kenpo Killer!
    Now put up or shut up you asshole!

  844. Michael Brooks

    You are ronins without masters who forgot who their masters were.

  845. Yes, I am very unskilled with computers. But I am no “rummy.’
    Where is the newspaper article of your disarming 3 gunmen? Where’s a video of you doing anything?
    Until them just shut the fuck up. You are a keyboard warrior and fraud.

  846. Dear Irish Billy Ma, here is what you are up against:
    The link is of two female black belts sparring. For one they should not have black belts. I guess they paid their dues on time! It is a joke. A total “let’s have the family do karate” McDojo school! In the video look for a sandy haired who looks about 15. He is a black belt and a judge. As the girls are sparring he isn’t even watching- at about 40 seconds! Shows a lot of discipline!
    https://youtu.be/fsS4dolhhF4
    Billy, I will warn you- this guy in the next clip is a black belt and WHAT A KILLER- https://youtu.be/oYSajemQaYU
    This is the chief instructor.
    Master Lawrence has studied and become adept at several martial arts, including Shotokan Karate, Kenpo Karate, American Sport Karate, Kwon Shu Karate, Arnis, Dan Zan Ryu Ju Jitsu, Brazilian Jiu Jitsu, and Folk Style Wrestling. Master Lawrence deftly blended these styles into a family friendly, enlightened system we now know as Bobby Lawrence Karate.
    This is Michael Brooks! He is a Kenpo stylist and that’s it. Go to Bobby Lawrence Kenpo Karate. It is all flash with lots of demos and forms. They have a demo team. Of course no real sparring or real fighting. So he was a Mormon missionary. You would think that a devote Mormon would not talk like him, but we all know what fucking hypocrites Mormons are! So he is a total Ed Parker Kenpo Kult asshole! He is a fucking joke. Just watch the videos!
    Michael Brooks (Head of School/Manager)
    Michael Brooks began his karate training in 2003. He is currently a fourth degree black belt and the Head of School/Manager for the Spanish Fork BLK School. Michael is a very enthusiastic instructor and dedicated Black Belt. He enjoys teaching and watching the students as they work towards their Black Belt. Michael has a degree in Exercise and Wellness and is a certified Health Fitness Specialist and Personal Trainer. He has also served a mission to Tijuana, Mexico for the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints.
    Hey Michael, I had you checked out! We are still laughing. I just called a couple of pals in the states that are in the arts. They asked me not to kill you for your big fucking mouth! That cat’s out of the bag! You are a joke and so is your whole fucking school! I watched the videos! You are a pack of posers!
    One kid, Trevor Brown, is a 2nd Degree black belt after 4 years! When I started it took 5 to get a 1st. degree, but we had standards!
    So how is life in Spanish Fork, Utah? I’ll come pay you a visit when my shoulder heals! You will not enjoy it! And you will apologize to me!
    And I had your story about the 3 gummen checked- BULLSHIT! You have never had a fight in your life!

  847. Dear Irish Billy Mack, I just found this one and it is the funniest of them all, yet also the saddest! Look at what they consider a black belt!
    https://youtu.be/Fe15JuSV5zc

  848. https://youtu.be/fsS4dolhhF4
    https://youtu.be/oYSajemQaYU
    Two more of Bobby Lawrence Karate Killers!
    It seems they are moderating one of my longer posts!

  849. Well Billy, just one more- DO NOT GET AFRAID! THESE ARE KENPO KILLERS! But seriously, look at what they give a black belt too!
    https://youtu.be/0LeHsW08aPc

    • Michael Brooks

      No martial arts works to perfection unless the legs are trained to be very powerful. Most real time contenders run anywhere between 3 to 14 miles a day. I think you miss a lot of points of this sport. It trains people to be more coordinated and has great cardiovascular benefits and confidence building. Individuals are left to perfect the art as they see fit. It certainly wouldn’t attract children and their parents, if they were brought to the level of junk yard dogs and leaving practice and tournaments with broken bones, fractured noses and knocked out teeth. Bottom line, very few people in martial arts will every be faced with a life or death situation, or even a real fight, unless they’re wasting their time hanging out at bars getting drunk. Additionally only a fraction of MMA fighters reach the ‘big time’. And even there they have a lot of rules that keep them from serious injuries and those experts don’t win all the time by a knockout.

  850. Okay- I may have to eat a big crow sandwich. I just talked to Michael Brooks in Utah. He says that somebody is using his name! He is the only Michael Brooks in Kenpo so I jumped at it.
    If I am wrong I will apologize right now! But my opinion of the videos stands!
    So we have Joshua Pestaner using multiple names and Michael Brooks using another Kenpo black belts name as his own!
    So will the real Michael Brooks please stand up!
    Or is Michael Brooks really Joshue Pestaner with a third or fourth name to start shit! Who knows!

  851. Give me your wife’s name and phone number first ya bum!
    There’s nothing to verify a hole.
    Unlike others here who post fake names, you know mine.
    Let’s stop the game playing.
    You wanna do this or not?
    Yes or no.
    I don’t want to play forum tag buddy.
    I’m not giving you Jack!
    Nobody outside gets my home address.
    You wanna negotiate the terms verbally, let me know what day and time you want to call BBC.
    I’ll be there waiting on the call.
    But, pay close attention.
    I don’t wanna hear any bullshit.
    Get the terms set and someway to prove you have 5K.
    I have 5 and the winner gets the 10.
    Like I said you can call BBC and I will be there to take your call so post the day and time.
    I want get the ball rolling on this.
    See, I’m for real bud.
    And I’m willing to put my amateur “novice” golden glove boxing skills against whatever it is you think you got.
    It’s Showtime Brooks….LET’S DO THIS!!!!

  852. Robert Libby,
    Thanks for posting the karate fighters video.
    They look like crap!
    Brooks the bum has been given a real chance to call me at the gym, if he’s serious.
    If someone is using the Brooks name to start shit, the real Brooks should find the fake and beat him down!
    I will post here if this bum sets a day and time to call me and follows through.
    If pester is using another fake name and I find out that Brooks is him, and he’s been bustin my balls here, oh baby…big problem coming to his pus MA school.

  853. Personally I feel that Michael Brooks is Pestaner using another name. You can tell by the long winded history lessons and writing style. And it would be just like Joshua Pestaner to pirate another Kenpo guy’s name and use it.
    The real fact is that if you read the Tracy blog and look at things that are openly admitted to Ed Parker’s system was founded on corruption and still is! Nobody in Kenpo denies that Ed was promoted to 5th. degree and 10th. degree by his cronies. And Mills promoted himself to 3rd. degree.
    And even in my most recent video a Kenpo guy uses the tired old garbage about the techniques are a “framework.” You box- there is no framework or phases. A jab is a jab and it is that simple.
    Good luck in your upcoming boxing matches!

  854. Attention Brooks The BUM:
    I have a release drawn up and double checked to be sure our throw down doesn’t affect my amateur boxing status.
    All clear!
    Post day and time you’ll be calling BBC so I’m there waiting.
    If it is found that your peterner the punk using another alias and did it to agitate me…I’m going back on my word and I WILL be calling you AGAIN.
    Brook I hope you post TODAY, and don’t forget I need 5 thousand bucks which I will match from you.
    The release is legit too so don’t you worry your lavender little kenpo karate belt over it.
    We will see how good your Dragon tail defense or twirling toes kick technique works when I throw non stop punches on your face!
    It’s time Brooks ya bum!
    Robert Libby thanks for your words of encouragement this will be my last year competeting.
    Just want to test myself against better quality fighters which is why I want to try open class.

  855. Michael Brooks

    So basically you, Robert, and the imaginary Billy Wack, post wild accusations and slurs, and don’t post your addresses. You’re the challengers. I don’t even think you’re in Thailand, Bob. Someone called you ‘ferocious’? It’s more like ferocious screamer. And another thing about your post saying you quit Kenpo and went and taught at a health club and Mr. Parker shut you down and you called in a challenge that no one heard. Did you have your finger on the hang up button? Typically Bob. Ferocious. Have Billy Mack post a selfie with the owner of the Baltimore Gym since he’s sceered to post his real address or phone number with his challenge. As you noted in an earlier post, there was a Kenpo stylist who did post their actual physical address and you didn’t take that up. And taking Mr. Parker’s white belts to the health club? That makes you nothing more than a thief Robert Libby.

  856. Brooks,
    GO FUCK YOURSELF!!!
    I don’t post “selfies”.
    Furthermore ASSHOLE, I don’t need to get Jake involved in OUR PROBLEM, you understand?
    Maybe you are going senile.
    I told you WE have other options where we can DO THIS.
    I only used BBC as a contact point JERK OFF.
    Had you set a day and time to call me, I would have made other arrangements for us to meet.
    If you that interested in what I look like….I have unwashed dirty blond hair, blue eyes, and yellowing teeth.
    I use Kourous because my girlfriend likes it and it masks the sweat after a hard workout or run.
    Satisfied?
    I’m done with you pussy.
    If you even have the 5 K, one by one shove the bills up your anus.
    You are not serious, and as i have repeated many time before….YOUR A BUM, A BUM BROOKS!!!
    I would have eaten you up bud.
    For your health, it’s best that you kept delaying this by posting bullshit questions.
    Last, stop comparing me to Robert Libby and stating on this forum that I am him.
    No disrespect to him, I’m my own man mother fucker!
    Robert Libby does his thing, I do mine.

    • So Jake won’t just take a selfie with you? That’s too bad. Kenpo people are for the most part friendly people and have time to take a selfie with their students or fellow members. As for your teeth, Grocery stores sell teeth whitening strips you put on your teeth for about 30 minutes each night for a week. Unwashed hair? You sound lazy. Post a selfie from your phone or stop saying you’re not Robert Libby.

      • Hey dipshit! I am on the Internet on YouTube! I am not hiding a thing. The only two people that have lied and been deceptive are you and Joshua Pestaner. And why would I post my exact dates while in America if I was trying to hide my identity. Why would I tell Steve that I would pay my own airfare and the price of the ticket? Because unlike you I am not a coward! I do not know which is worse, how stupid you are or what a blatant cowardly asshole you are! Or maybe that you are a pathological liar. Where is your video of you chickenshit?
        Steve Shaffer and I may disagree, but at least he had the balls to put up a video! And he used his name and face and did not steal a Kenpo 4th degree black belts.
        You, like Mills, and Joshua Pestaner have no integrity. Joshua admitted he used 2 names and you refuse to say who you are. So what credibility do you have”? NONE!
        Just like your mentor Ed Parker! All your Google search lists mean jack shit!
        And the videos I have posted show the Ed Parker legacy- “give me” black belts that are more determined by how many payments you have made than your ability!
        I am getting ready for 2 more videos. I am going to show that you dummies do not even know your own techniques and all the principles they talk about like “marriage of gravity” and “directional harmony” are not even used by them! I will let the videos do a lot of my talking for me. They never put any power into shots and just flap their arms, and it is so pathetic. But what is more pathetic is that people sell this shit and that people believe this manure!
        Kenpo could have been a great system, but it had a major impediment named Ed Parker!

        • Michael Brooks

          Put a little speed into them like Ed Parker would. And develop your own system. There is no way to separate the facts you state. You can be proven a liar in somethings, so why should anyone believe in other things you do. The telephone number you posted earlier is not a real number. “The 081 area code appears to be a invalid, it may be “spoofed”. Calls originating from within the 081 area code often turn out to be a telemarketer, a telephone survey or bill collector trying to disguise their real . No country uses 081 area code. There is no telephone country code starting with the number 0. Telephone country codes never begin with the number 0″ Robert Libby posted on March 10 and wrote: ‘ WOW! The more I read from Kenpo people like you I realize how delusional you morons are. I never called you nor would I. I am in Thailand, and my number would show. It’s 081-881-6438. That is the only number I use and I do not need to “disguise” my voice.’ ROBERT LIBBY DEBUNKED AGAIN.

          • This is from Wikipedia. I am with AIS for my phone. ToT stands for Telecommunications of Thailand- you can check that out! Once again you are proven to be a liar, so you have not caught me in one lie. The amazing thing is that you even do this shit! It is so easy to check. My wife’s phone is also 081, my older daughter is 084 as she has a different provider, and our younger daughter is 088.
            Mobile phone codes and IP telephony[edit]
            Mobile phone codes are in area codes 8 and 9, and VoIP are in the area code 6, ranging 2 digits excluding the leading zero.
            Originally, each mobile phone operator was issued one mobile phone code. Through a series of mergers, there are currently three major mobile phone operators: AIS, True and DTAC. As existing numbers begin to run out, the three mobile phone operators are assigned numbers in code 081, distinguished by the first digit of the subscriber number.
            A mobile phone number consist of a mobile phone code and a seven-digit subscriber number. Therefore, a mobile phone number is written as 08x-xxxxxxx.
            Mobile phones in Thailand use 900/1800 MHz for GSM. Domestic roaming service is available free within Thailand in places where there is only a single transmitter in place due to restrictions.
            As codes are being exhausted, a new range, 09x is made available for assignment. Despite the length of the code, subscriber numbers are seven digits, resulting in a 10-digit national number including the leading zero. Starting 28 April 2011, the prefix 090 followed by 7 digits would be available for use.
            Code Service
            060 True Move (VoIP)
            061 AIS
            062 AIS
            063 AIS[2]
            068 TOT (VoIP)
            080-0 to 080-2 AIS
            080-3 True Move
            080-4 to 080-5 DTAC
            080-6 AIS
            081-0 to 081-2 AIS
            081-3 to 081-6 DTAC
            081-7 to 081-9 AIS
            082 AIS
            083 True Move
            084 AIS
            085 DTAC
            085-4 AIS
            086 True Move
            087 AIS
            088 True Move
            089 DTAC
            090 DTAC
            090-1 AIS
            090-9 True Move H
            091 DTAC
            092 AIS
            And now you make excuses for bad martial arts techniques! Wait for my new videos coming up in a few days. You are in the wrong fight with the wrong dog!
            Now where is your video asshole! Come out from the shadows you fucking Kenpo Koward! You do not have a testicle on you!
            I had said I would back off- NO WAY! No I am in overdrive and will show the Parker legacy for the fraudulent martial arts bullshit it is! I will show what a total buffoon he was and go into great detail how it is a totally inept and ridiculous system!

  857. BTW Brooks, me scared?
    You lost your mind?
    You mentioned all these old time boxing people in other post.
    How old are you bud?
    What’s your height and weight(not that it makes any difference to me).
    Why don’t you post a selfie and show everyone your pearly whites Michael Brooks, Kenpo Lavender Belt?

    • Michael Brooks

      Post your telephone number and I’ll send you a picture. Someone who has 5K to bet with has a smart phone don’t they?

  858. I think the most reliable source is Chuck Sullivan. He tells the story of the falling out that he was part of. He explains the actions of both Ed Parker and Jimmy woo. There is a deeper story here. Again, contack Chuck Sullivan.

    1-714 229 0372.. Talk to Vic Leroux.

  859. Attention:
    Ustedes son malos.
    Bochinchando como viejas maduras.
    Dehen a el Gran Cinturon negro Eduardo Parker de sus vocas sucias.
    Tengan respeto para un gran hombre.
    Empezando por el bochinchero Don Roberto Libby.
    Y terminando por el joven karateka Joshua.
    Los Latinos tienen mucho respecto para los ancianos.
    Que Dios Los Bendiga.

    • Yo no soy una persona alocholica! Yo no me gusto las bebidas alcoholicas. Tu quieres creer un pendejo como Michael Brooms tu eres una pesona estupida! Yo puedo entender Espanol!
      Michael Brooks es una mentiroso y Ed Parker fue un ladron! Tu trabajaba nunca por el!

  860. https://youtu.be/o1IoSAmPBEg
    This link is from a Kenpo school. One of the members said I did not know Kenpo. Please notice they are wearing black belts and they are adults. The person who responded to my critique said I did not understand about “buckling knees” as I did not do it in Thundering Hammers. I actually use a buckling knee concept all the time as it is in JKD. I merely wanted to show the punching part and intentionally left out the knees as they are almost impossible to get in as the beginning of the technique is so bad!
    Please notice in the video that this person does not buckle the knee and has absolutely no power in his strikes. There is zero hip rotation, shoulder rotation, or any sense of power. This would not hurt anybody and from a technical stand point is a disaster! Yet one of their members in the school photo is wearing a 9th. degree black belt! They just use their arms with no concept of either marriage of gravity or directional harmony. And also notice he goes right to the ground for an ankle lock which is a very bad idea in the street! He is lying there and then the “friends” come and he is meat!So why do I have to teach Kenpo black belts how to do their own system? Oh, yeah, we had standards when I trained and Ed was never there to mess things up!
    Now to clear I did see another school called Rapid Impact Combatives and they showed some pretty good stuff, but I do not believe it is the same group! They are a Kenpo school but as I have previously stated some Kenpo people can fight, but they never use Ed Parker’s techniques! They are showing what Kenpo should have been and could have been!

  861. Hey Brooks…suck my d—!
    Your nothing but a wise ass punk karate faggot.
    You have ear wax deep into your ear canal bum!
    Do you even know how to read?
    Not posting jack and you can go get fucked by your queer boyfriend.
    Your a fucking nobody!
    A never was!
    And now read this.
    Your a pussy as was your hero Ed Parker and all the other kenpo karate guys who idolize the fat slob!
    That’s right, I did my research and everything posted by RL is on point.
    And let this sink in too jerk off…I’M NOT ROBERT LIBBY!!!!
    Now go jerk off t0 Ed Parkers picture or video of the fat slob doing his slaps against pussies.
    BTW BUM BROOKS, you don’t like what I’m sayin?
    Post when and where and make sure you have 5K.
    If you don’t I’ll force dress you with a wig, panties and dress and pimp you out until your a hole is the size of a softball and you’ve made me my 5K bitch!

  862. I cannot access this video. So no comment!

  863. Dear Irish Billy Mack, but do you have an opinion 🙂
    They will do nothing. They are keyboard warriors. And anybody who wastes their time on Kenpo Krap is nuts!
    I checked out the Baltimore Boxing Club- it looked great. It had that “feel” to it, like a real gym should. It reminded of the Main Street Gym in Los Angeles.
    Keep up your training and the best to you in your fights. Good luck!

  864. Michael Brooks

    Mr. Libby, are you taking any medication that could possibly be producing side effects to your reason? The telephone number you listed was for calling within Thailand. 081-881-6438. However, you would know that a 66 would be needed in front in order to call outside the country. This is also from Wikepedia:
    1. Within Bangkok, Nonthaburi, Pathum Thani, and Samut Prakan: 02-2134567
    2. Outside Bangkok, Nonthaburi, Pathum Thani, and Samut Prakan: 02-2134567
    3. Outside Thailand: +66-2-2134567 (the initial 0 of the area code is omitted)
    You’re not really in Thailand are you? I really can’t understand why people are replying to someone who once stole students from Ed Parker to train with you at a Health Club. Ethics.

  865. Dear Robert Libby,
    I appreciate your encouragement.
    This will be my last year of competition.
    BBC is an excellent facility, as is Concrete Jungle.
    Mackies is a garage gym where a few of us do our own workout, but still pretty decent training.
    Brooks and previous pestener pushed me to expose my dark side.
    They pissed me off.
    Two chumps with nothing better to do.
    They will have to take responsibility for bringing me to publicly speak how I feel.
    Having taken time to study videos on the net of kenpo and Parker a blind person can see that your spot on.
    I don’t think either of those two bums will ever see me in the gym.
    All talk and nothing more.
    Like I said, you look like one very tough dude.

  866. Fuck you! You take any minor thing and call a person a liar All countries have an international code so fuck you!
    Rather than try to nitpick me post a video you cunt!
    And I stole no students. I had 2 go with me as they were leaving anyway due to the bad teaching! So once again fuck you. Where is your video? You make arguments I would not expect from a bratty 5 year-old! Now fuck off!
    So put up or shut up! You will not face Irish Billy Mack just like that punk Ed Parker would not face me! Kenpo is an art for boneheads and posers!
    https://youtu.be/PmUYyg9tX8c The Ed Parker legacy! And Palanzo is a 10th. degree and was a top Kenpo guy!
    You are just like Joshua Pestaner, Steve Shaffer, Ron Wilstein, Ron Chapel, and a host of other Kenpo jerk offs! They give out belts like candy at Halloween!
    So where is your video asshole? Coward!
    And I am quite sure it’s you Joshua. This is the cowardly shit you would do!

  867. Mr. Robert Libby,
    Me and my main training partner just finished watching your videos under Bobo Morgan and were really impressed with the one’s dealing with real street fight footage.
    Your explanation on what type stuff works in a real fight is something we would like to see more of.
    Are you posting more of these again?
    Even with our training in boxing we saw that a sneak punch can mess things up even if your used to hitting and getting hit.
    Can you do one of these using boxing techniques for a real fight?
    Would like to learn anything you can post using boxing as the style of defense.

  868. Yes, I will post more of them in a day or two. My older stepdaughter had to go to Bangkok for her jewelry company for training so her boyfriend went also. She got promoted!
    I will be showing how well boxing premises of body mechanics, timing and distances can be used. How to use an art called “kali” from the Philippines to to really end a fight quickly. How to put in shots using boxing mechanics to give power and using elbows and eye shots for maximum effectiveness!
    Now due to Michael Brooks once again implying I am a liar my first step will be to make a little video of where I live to show I do live in Thailand. I will actually show my visa with dates in my passport! He is such an asshole!
    I will also be posting with every video I do links to videos that show how weak and ineffective Kenpo is as well as what a buffoon Ed Parker was.
    The videos will clearly show that Ed Parker had no talent and his “legacy” was other hacks like him. To clearly show that they just give out black belts according to time in.
    And as I am doing now to show that I there are Kenpo people who make claims as to their martial art that they cannot back up, and are unqualified to teach. But I will also be showing other frauds like Ueshiba of Aikido and that is just a cult!
    Thanks for the support!

  869. Last chance Brooks.
    Are you able to put up 5K?
    Is your lavender belt kenpo skill better than my novice GG boxing?
    This is YOUR LAST chance to defend kenny po and ED The Fat SLOB Parker.
    Are you all talk BUM BROOKS?
    Let’s Do This!
    I could use an extra 5K.
    We need to get it done before I register for the gloves.
    Your A BUM Brooks-A. Certified BUM!!!!

  870. Michael Brooks

    Boy, Bob, it must be really hard having to write all these different posts under so many names. Billy Wack – the 3 fight wonder is going to retire this year at 29!!! At least you have a sense of humor. And you made this imaginary fighter who just happens to live close to Joshua play up to you just like a puppy! I want a puppy Bob! We all want puppies! Have him go to a school there in Maryland and have someone verify he exists.

  871. Michael Brooks

    It is not so much that I consider you, Bob, a pathological liar, as more like you’re hyping a lot that doesn’t need to be hyped and sloppy with your facts and presentations. You mentioned there were over 80,000 hits to this discussion. Actually that is to the entire website. You actually have few comments by just a few different people, in relation to the amount of time this story has been online. And the telephone number you posted originally, you did not alert others to the fact that the 0 drops and 66 has to be added. You must have known that if you traveled back to the United States and tried to call back home. But what gets me going is that you have taken no responsibility in the ethics involved with taking Mr. Parker’s students. There can be no excuse or rationalization to your own choices. All you’ve done since then, is using a technique just like a child who wants to get their way with their Mother furiously screaming in order to dominate and intimidate. I might have been willing to look at your other videos for inspiration, but frankly but there is no class involved with your entire approach. You’re only tweaking established Kenpo techniques. Make up your own names, with your approaches. When I read a previous post you had posted May 9, 2014 saying ‘One last thought- this link started about 3 years ago. It had like 80,000 hits. Now it has over 445,000’ (Bob, that number is for the entire website, which now has over 800,000 hits. Every time anyone visits anywhere or posts, it counts as a hit) Who actually gave you your first black belt?

  872. Man you are dumb! There is a box at the bottom that say 811,958. What is amazing is why do you tell such obviously provable things? And no I am not Billy Mack! All you do is keep changing insults and switch facts!
    So when somebody looks at this it comes out one way- Kenpo people are desperate liars.
    My first black belt in Karate was from Paul Dalton!
    So where is your video coward!
    Last post from me to you! The only liars on this site are Kenpo people- you, Mills Crenshaw, and others! And you are also all the cowards!
    You will never reveal who you are will you Joshua?

  873. Michael Brooks

    No, Robert, this is the main website where this story is listed under writers. Same hits. Unless you go somewhere and then it adds one more. Or if you add a post. http://freemartialartsonline.com/

  874. Michael Brooks

    Correction. This story is in the drop down box on the main page under Kenpo. http://freemartialartsonline.com/

  875. Brooks,
    I finally came to conclude that you ain’t putting up….YA BUM!!!
    Your simply STUPID BROOKS!
    To think that your brain registers Irish Billy to Robert Libby is insane.
    You are a nobody, going nowhere, and if Robert Libby is right, you might even be pestener…what a little cunt!
    So, here’s my gift to you Brooks Mike THE BUM.
    Starting this weekend I am going to beat the living shit out of any karate guys that come to any gym I’m at for boxing instruction.
    I will make sure they don’t come back.
    Since it’s done under supervised conditions the best I can hope for is to break ribs or knock some of those karate sissies out cold.
    At for retiring at 29, look jerk off this is, was, and will be a serious hobby.
    I excelled and never intended to fight pro.
    Chances are I will do very well in the open matches.
    No brag, just fact punk.
    I despise you for wasting my time.
    I hate you for not being a man and backing up your worthless words.
    You disgust me for thinking that I am Robert Libby.
    The foul stench of your post are those of keyboard clowns.
    Post your video like Robert Libby asked you closet queen.
    If you post yours, I will post mine.
    Let’s play first grade moron…you first!
    Now Kenpo Karate slapper, post your fuckin video or don’t come back here.

  876. Funny ! Here you can find the best in Martial Arts.lol

  877. Brooks,
    I did a short 3 minute video last night(bag work, sparring, and FULL FACE SHOT).
    Are you going to post yours or not?
    Soon as you post, I will put mine out.
    Now, everyone is going to see who is a bull shitter and who is real between the two of us.
    Post the vid and make sure you have something to validate who you are, I did on mine.
    You post FIRST, then I WILL.
    Simple request.
    BTW, if you post and I don’t well EVERYONE here will know that I’m just a fake, right?
    Brooks has everything to gain and Mack everything to lose.
    POST YOUR VIDEO MICHAEL BROOKS!!!!!!!!

    • Just post already (Irish). You don’t need his or anyone’s. All the talk so far. If you’d like to post, post it. If not, give it a rest. Remember, there are not that many on this thread so it’s not a big deal.

  878. Kenpo J,
    I think Robert Libby is right.
    You might be Mike Brooks.
    After all, why would you reply an hour after I posted?
    Why not him?
    That’s OK, I refuse to post unless he did.
    I’m done.
    I think I am going to take your advice.
    That’s right I’m gonna listen to ya.
    Gonna retire from here.
    This has gone as far as it’s going, and I ain’t gettin anywhere.
    I guess it’ll be Robert Libby, Brooks, and maybe you battling it out on the keyboards.

  879. Libby has had accusations of being different aliases for a long while here. Kind of funny to see him/you try to flip the script. I have just been reading updates of Brooks getting a lot in on Libby and then him get very upset about it.

    Libby has videos, Brooks has emailed me and some others on this thread, Libby doesn’t do emails for whatever reason.

    Irish Billy (alias) does not give real name, email, video, picture of himself, address, or phone number. It’s very easy to see how difficult it is to believe this alias has a real person behind it. Because of how you address Libby makes it also appear it is him puppeteering. So no knock on you, but you should be able to understand how the confusion comes to a head.

    For the record, I never was mysterious with my alias change on the thread. I used my real name as my alias until someone on the thread told me I should not use my name for background checks, employment, etc. I took the advice immediately. Everyone knew it was me except for Libby or him pretending like he didn’t know. Not a big deal really. But now he likes to make it seem like a big deal.

    I do hope more people share videos of different training methods or the science of fighting. As far as the talk, no point, hahaha.

    • Hey asshole, nobody flipped the script! You admitted you used different names! You and Brooks act exactly the same- totally dishonest! You are a punk so you should not be telling people what to do. Where is a real video by you? Where are the counters to mu videos? Kenpo techniques are pure garbage! And it is so funny how its followers use all this terminology and do not even use it!

  880. Count Great I am

    I have used a name of fakes.
    My aura is indestructible.
    I hail Cesar’s ghost.
    self taught from action Movies.
    My favorites?
    OUR Man Flint, perfect weapon, Five Fingers of Death, AND…we got to go to the tournament.
    Learned A LOT.
    And you Masters?

  881. Joshua, it’s useless to argue with whoever this Robert Libby is. He may just be a colored belt in Kenpo who wants 3 seconds of fame. You’re the only legitimate black belt here who has a credited school under Greg Payne. History will always have sordid people, like fat pigs too lazy to get out of the mud.

  882. Wow!
    Mr. Brooks is insinuating that Mr. Libby is a fat pig, and that the only credible black belt here is Mr. Joshua.
    Those are very derogatory statements.
    I thought this was a professional forum made up of respectful Martial Artists exchanging ideas.
    After spending over an hour reading the back and forth dialogue, most of it gutter language, it certainly isn’t for me.
    Whoever runs the site shoukd be ashamed of themself for allowing this to go on.
    All you guys need to find something constructive to do with your time.

  883. Count Great I am

    My aura is black belt 20th degree.
    I HAIL CESARS PALACE!
    I’m practicing spit strikes, head slobs, and butt smashes lol!
    In the interest of slow slobs whose skill is below Edwin Starr….I mean Parker I would love to go kung fu fighting cause my farts are fast as lightening.
    The odor is a little frightening, so you all may be exciting…lol!
    And do no forget, the best defense is a horrible crap….lol!
    The ultimate aim of American Kenpo is to brainwash it’s disciples into thinking that it’s techniques and foot stomps are effective like it’s creator the one and only Ed Parker!
    A master who trained many excellent students in his system of….it’s the Ricky Ricardo show with Lucy Ball.
    Tonight’s special guest is the debonair karate grand master from Honolulu Eddie Parker!
    Watch as his ineffective techniques and drills are very deadly.
    Now, Famous people’s where’s the fudge? LOL!

  884. Sifu Greg Payne

    Gentleme,
    Please refrain from bringing me or my videos up in your conversations.
    Thank you.

  885. Michael Brooks

    Would you mind posting an email address or telephone number to confirm this Mr. Payne?

  886. How about you post who you are?

  887. Sifu Greg Payne

    Gentlemen,
    I have had a series of telephone calls with Senior Grand Master Sullivan.
    The IKCA is extremely disappointed in what has been posted here for several years.
    I renounce all negative commentary made about anyone associated with Ed Parker, Sr.
    Again, I am requesting that my name and the mentioning of my videos be kept out of the arguments and debates between a certain group of individuals hell bent on bringing down Ed Parker and American Kenpo.
    I need not name those individuals as I refuse to be lured into this on going irrelevance.
    Thank you in advance for honoring my request.

    • Michael Brooks

      I’m sorry but I don’t believe this is Mr. Payne, but just another one of Mr. Libby’s seeming multiple personalities. Please give me a call. Mr. Pestaner has my telephone number. You posted: I need not name those individuals as I refuse to be lured into this on going irrelevance.’ I see it as ‘irreverence.’

    • I feel Chuck Sullivan is old enough to reply for himself! And as he is one of the board members who promoted Ed Parker to 5th. degree and then to 10th. let him answer for himself. Let him explain why EPAK works or does not work. I feel he has a lot to answer for due to the erroneous promotions of Ed Parker.
      Or does he choose to hide in the shadows like Michael Brooks?

      • Michael Brooks

        Robert Libby has been posting and trash talking for over 3 years on this blog but never posted his address or an email address. Who would give their own address to someone who acts low class in every way? That is cowardly Bob.

  888. So you choose to lie again. 1) I did not start this thread, but rather Al Case did. 2) You are the one who refuses to reveal who you are as you are a coward. 3) I am on YouTube for all to see.

    • Michael Brooks

      Since you’ve never given a physical address or an email, and use other names, it’s hard to figure out who you are, or if you aren’t the writer since nearly all the posts are yours. It’s a shame that Mr. Case didn’t just promote his own ideas on martial arts and leave the seedy side approach out. I might have wanted to explore his ideas. This is a review of one of Al Case’s marital arts book reviews: ‘wow…not what I expected….if you are looking for EPAK…don’t go here…techniques are the same with different names…BUYER BEWARE ‘

  889. Sifu Greg Payne

    Gentlemen,
    You are beginning to be a real pain, especially Mr. Michael Brooks.
    I asked, very sincerely to be kept out of conversations here.
    Yet, once again it has happened.
    Is it necessary to disrespect me by disregarding my request?
    The unnecessary arguments about a solid system Kenpo and it’s founder, creator, and legend Ed Parker must stop.
    They serve no value or purpose.
    What you gentleman have started and continue to this day has left a pain in my heart and sour taste in my mouth.
    I ask, once again to be omitted from these on going verbal battles about my beloved art and it’s icon Ed Parker.
    Thank you gentlemen.

    • Michael Brooks

      Bob, you can write very heartfelt. Not Mr. Payne. The real one has my telephone number. (You’re like the coyote, you just can’t catch that roadrunner, can you Bob?)

  890. I have posted as Robert Libby and nobody else. Only Joshua Pestaner has posted under different names and admitted it. And Michael Brooks, nobody has to give a nut job like you their personal email and personal address! You will not even say who you are! So go fuck yourself!
    And you Joshua are a chickenshit little punk. I am the only person who put stuff out on YouTube as myself. I am out these as big as life and not ducked anybody! It is you Kenpo chicken shits that have ducked me.
    Apparently lying is a Kenpo habit as Ed Parker did about many people like me, Jimmy Woo, and Paul Dalton. And there are many others like Mills Crenshaw.
    I have not told one lie and that can be proven. But who is Michael Brooks? Nobody knows as he is a coward. So post a video Michael! And Joshua, you are a weasel who likes to just cause trouble. You are the classic example of “little man’s complex.”
    So why should I take advice from people that get promoted by DVD? What a load of crap! Or from people that negligently promoted Ed Parker to 5th and them 10th, or Mills who promoted himself to 3rd?
    What you Kenpo people do not like is that you have no answers as when analyzed Kenpo is a joke. Steve Shaffer showed that only too well. So all I am seeing here are martial arts disgraces with no technical skills and little if any MA abilities, and especially when it comes to analysis.
    So where is one video of Ed Parker not looking like a fool? The EPAK system is garbage, and I have shown why. My viewers are growing as our my subscribers. And I do not make a penny for this. All you Kenpo people have are false accusations and hyperbole! And when hit with the truth you all start whining.
    So Michael Brooks who are you? Fucking coward! And Joshua you are no better! Go spar with Irish Billy Mack coward!

    • Michael Brooks

      Are you backing down Bob? Scared? Maybe that’s how Mr. and Mrs. Parker thought about you, Bob. A nut. ‘We are born and die alone. It is only thru the illusion of friends and love that we feel we aren’t alone.’

  891. Sifu Greg Payne

    Like a famous African American once said, “Can’t we all just get along”?
    What is this gentlemen?
    And what is Billy Mack an amateur boxer doing here starting trouble among Martial Artists?
    I am demoralized at what has happened here.
    This forum has ruined Ed Parker’s contributions to the Martial Arts.
    He will forever be “soiled” by ALL the arguments about EPAK and his skill set.
    Not just by what Robert Libby has chosen to argue, but also by what other Kenpoists have decided to bring into the discussions.
    If Robert Libby is the fire, you other gentlemen have been the fuel that has ignited controversy about a man, Ed Parker who should be left alone to rest in peace.
    You are all a disgrace!

  892. Michael Brooks

    Bob is scared and now everybody knows it.
    Looks like Mr. Parker has exposed Bob for what he is.
    Mr. Parker has spoken out against Bob from the grave.

  893. Where are videos of Ed Parker looking decent? Where is a video of you? All you are is a cheap shot artist and instigator. The only thing coming from Ed’s grave is bullshit. And no, I am not afraid.
    Do you have any idea how nuts and cowardly you seem to the sane?

  894. What is this?
    What’s going on here?
    A bunch of old fools with nothing better to do than to bash a man that has passed away.
    Sick to my stomach with what is going on here.
    I ask that any and all Kenpoists, especially the ones designated to carry on the American Kenpo legacy band together to put a stop to what is going on here.
    If we don’t join together to support our system and defend Ed Parker this will continue.
    To those responsible for this reprehensible conduct, I want all of you to stop it now.

  895. YES SIR! Another Kenpo practitioner who will not reveal who they are!
    I thought about this before responding to some of the last comments.
    Michael Brooks is obviously nuts Greg Payne does not have a leg to stand on as far as techniques. But I will do what I do best- teach!
    So I will not be here on this site anymore. I will just keep doing my videos that expose the martial arts fallacies that are so prevalent today. They were always there but with the Internet the masses frauds can reach out to are staggering.
    But I see people like the “BJJ police” going around and exposing frauds. I see panels like on “Fighting the Fakers: The Woo in Martial Arts” by TAM. I see others using videos to show how so many arts started in fraud like Aikido with Morihei Ueshiba.
    I have gotten some real encouragement from people that I know I have helped to go to better schools and get real training. And I know I have gotten some people thinking which is always good.
    And in closing there is one obvious point that inspires- when the American Kenpo people themselves, and I mean black belts, say I am doing right I know that American Kenpo has huge problems! Maybe I can get people headed in the right direction!
    Au revoir!

  896. Mr. Robert Libby,
    Please don’t let any of these BUMS, the karate guys push you out.
    You are too valuable to leave because your the only person worth anything here.
    I hope you stay and post street boxing info.

  897. I will ABSOLUTELY be posting more videos as that is the best way to show techniques. I will be doing some stuff on how to defeat boxing as in the street there are no gloves. I will also be doing concepts on how to have your hands survive the fight!
    I also will be emphasizing many of the ways that boxers utilize leverage and have devastating inside power to the body. And i will be showing better ways to block as Karate blocking is absurd.
    And in every video I will post a links showing how absurd some of the traditional martial arts were and just idiotic ideas. I also will be expanding some of it to other martial arts systems.
    I also want to show how the “I trained the British SAS” does not mean that much. And I am no way knocking the SAS, RAR or other groups like the SEALS. They are the baddest boys around but they mostly focus on knifes, guns, and explosives. They are incredibly brave and so well trained. But in an SAS 8 month training program they spend about 160 hours on hand-to-hand combat! That is not a lot of time.
    I also want to show martial arts systems that work and why they work. And to show traps in marketing. I just saw a site where the guy was talking about how all the traditional martial arts do not work, but his versions of them do. So he is just copying things and repackaging. And that if your teacher will not work with you hands on that he may be a bogus teacher. Any time I do a seminar I get just as sweaty and tired as everybody else. And I will get on the ground with the students and get bloody like everybody else!
    And I will still be showing how with some minor modifications Kenpo techniques can work.
    Good luck in your fights and thanks for the support and encouragement!

  898. I did a little of everything.
    You know what works?
    Lifting weights, sprinting, and knowing how to throw punches that are meant to destroy your adversary.
    Never underestimate size, strength, endurance, and knowing how to land shots that won’t allow some thug to recover.
    If your mind is strong and alert so much the better.
    Ain’t no way some 150 black belt is going do anything to me at 5″10 230 solid, regardless of style.

  899. What a waste of time, talk, and maybe talent.
    Everyone here and I do mean all of you are full of shit.
    Grown men acting like kids and bragging about styles, systems, and people that are better.
    I happen to be a 10th Degree in two systems and can tell you that training in one can adapt and use traditional karate in a street fight.
    Remember it’s the man behind the style that can make it work.
    Offer something of value and stop comparing techniques.
    It works if you work to perfect it
    Mitch, I am 5″9, 165 and I can assure you that my skills would do severe damage to any guy who thinks that size and strength can overcome skill.

  900. I’m mad!
    How can you peoples talk so bad about Martial Art like kenpo and Mr. Parker?
    Bet you all are just quacks talking because Mr. Parker dead.
    Only ones here with good sense is Joshau and Michael.
    They decent and respect the arts like kenpo and Mr.Parker.
    If ever I had opportunity to learn from another artists I choose Joshau or Michael over peoples here that back stab and talk dukey.
    Age don’t discriminate against slower skill, weight, health.
    Even when young some maybe can’t fight as good but can teach great like Mr. Parker.
    Mr. Parker was a bad man.
    Bet he could take on 3, 4, or 5 in real fights and win.

  901. Ustedes son come pingas!
    Los que hablan mal de el gran punjetero Edwardo Parker son welo culos!
    Yo soy cinturon color naranja en karate de basura.
    Quiero ir mano a mano con el box de englaterra willian.
    Canto de apestoso tu no sabes peliar!
    Y a el resto de los lingual suzias, wele el anu de Paula Vunekas!!!

  902. Who the heck is that?
    Let me translate to English.
    You are all cock suckers!
    The ones who talk bad about the great jerk off Edward Parker are anal sniffers!
    I am an orange belt in garbage karate.
    I want to go toe to tow with the “British”? Anyway boxer William(I guess he means Irish Billy).
    You piece of smell you don’t know how to fight!
    And the rest of you dirty tongues, smell the anus of Paul Vunak!!!
    This Gavarra guy is LOCO.

  903. Joshua, Kenpo J, Gavarra.
    What next?
    Grow up!

    • Okay- somebody just posted in my name! I have always posted under BobboMorgan- I have never posted under my profile name of Robert Libby! So whoever did this is not me! Everybody on this site knows who I am!

  904. OKay- my bad that is my youtube name- but whoever did this past with some blue and white thing on it about
    “”Joshua, Kenpo J, Gavarra.
    What next?
    Grow up!””
    What I put in double quote marks is not from me!

  905. Hi there, You have done a great job. I’ll definitely digg it and personally suggest to my friends.
    I am sure they will be benefited from this site.

  906. Gerald Lightfoot

    This site and the many posting have left out the Comanche fighting systems.
    The Native American Martial Arts have no equal.
    Similar to the fighting styles of the Philippines we start with weapons and then progress to empty hand tactics.
    Many of the Americanized styles such as kenpo in all its forms have stolen from us.
    The closest effective styles to ours would be arnis & escrima, though not quite as brutal as our knife and tomohawk techniques.
    We welcome your respect and feedback from any serious practicioners who have studied true, authentic Native American Martial Arts.

    • Okay I will respond to mister Lightfoot as I agree and this is fun stuff.
      Many moons ago I had an Indian friend. He showed me how he made “natural weapons.” He made his own arrows to keep the traditional arts alive and made his own bow. A professor I met had gone to the Smithsonian Museum and he tried to draw an Indian bow that was like 150 years old and he said he could barely move it.
      Back in the 1960s American Indian things became very popular (look at the movie Billy Jack, although in 1971).
      So he started teaching me some of the tomahawk and knife defense work. Even some special forces people in Vietnam carried tomahawks. The stuff was awesome. And it is like the Filipino arts. And that is when I learned that many tribes had a karate/kung fu/ boxing idea with wrestling thrown in. He also got me using a sling. You can slip it in your back pocket and rocks are everywhere. It almost never breaks and weighs a few ounces. But you can take somebody’s head off with one!
      Also, I hate the term “Indian.” There are no Indians. There are Ojibwa, Apache, Lakota and others.
      Good post Mr. Lightfoot!

  907. This all sounds like a rehash of the Tracy Kempo bullshit. No matter who this is meant to prop up, or simply pull down, Ed Parker was without a doubt one of the greatest martial artists of any modern time. Keyboard warriors and wanna be journalists are a dime a dozen. Nothing remarkable here.

  908. No rehash sir.
    Just like the white man took our land some took our art to improve theirs.
    While I personally respect Parker he was light years behind Chief Bud Smith our Ed Parker if you will.
    I did not come here to create trouble.
    Just setting the record straight.

  909. I’m curious,who’s Chief Bud Smith?

    Here’s a clip that Steve Shaffer and I put together this weekend in response to a Kenpo technique criticized by Libby. There are other things as well.

    https://youtu.be/KuG2MExq5u4

    We were at a seminar. There were some great martial artists. And very serious martial artists as well. Self defense training is taken seriously. This was in Fayetteville, NC which is one of (or biggest as I was told) army towns in the US. We had a lot of vets, currently serving soldiers, family of soldiers in attendance, and police officers. There was amazing blend of Kenpo, jujitsu, and weapon arts displaying their perspectives and sharing. Its easy to read things and believe this or that, but much better to get off your butt and attend some great events like this. You get to see, question and feel what’s real, legit or not. I am very happy I attended this weekend and learned quite a bit. Kenpo is always evolving as it was intended.

  910. Okay, I’ll respond- why do you two clowns always have to show how you know nothing about a real fight or how to train people?
    Why waste your time on reverse punches and the “ideal phase.” The 3 phase concept is pure crap and just more techno nonsense. It is a waste of time and stupid. But it fills manuals and gets the people wired into the cult.
    When you learn how to box, kick box, do BJJ, or judo there are no phases. You learn it the right way from the beginning. There are no “advanced techniques”, but only the right way to do it from day one.
    And even your stupid attempt at defending the IKCA “thumb on top” idea does make a difference Joshua- it is anatomically weaker! Ergo you do not train with the thumb on top- it is that simple. The thumb in the conventional way is 50% stronger and that is from an evolutionary biologist at the University of Utah- a real scientist and not some fraud!
    God help either on e of you if you ever get in a real fight! But nice try at showing the “awesome power of Kenpo.” It is a flawed system, cult like, and has crap techniques and training ideas!

  911. Constructive criticism coming so I hope Joshua and Steve can handle it.
    Steve you seem to be a very nice guy but, you gotta get in shape dude!
    You were gasping for air.
    Against an aggressive, resisting opponent you would gas out and be unable to execute.
    If you took a hit to the gut that would really put you at a disadvantage.
    Hit the treadmill or track 2-3 days a week and do some sprint work.
    Less time on flowering hammers and more on your conditioning Steve.
    Joshua, your jab and 1-2 combos need some serious work my friend.
    I commend both of you for posting the video, but when stuff looks raw and your sucking wind you have to be prepared to hear stuff you may not like.
    If your not in reasonably good shape and someone puts up a fight your kenpo ain’t gonna work.

  912. Lightfoot.. a streetfight isnt a boxing match… most fight last under a minute.. if one knows how and where to hit.. they dont need to go back and forth.. ebb and flow.. attack the attack and end it quickly

  913. Hey jow jow jow hey jow jow jow.
    Mr. Kevin train to fight, be in shape to defend.
    Hey jow jow jow, hey jow jow jow.

  914. lightfoot… jow jow.. yourself…. martial combat is about attacking not defending in dont train to win a 10 round match.. i train to end it

    • Kevin, you do Ed Parker’s Kenpo- what the Hell would you know about fighting? You are a clown and a coward. I thought you weren’t on this thread anymore? You are a punk on so many levels and an idiot.
      https://youtu.be/ehL90CP4rGY
      The link os to a Bryan Hawkins black belt testing session. These people are not even decent green belts! And all the talk about “Oh, so many “masters” present.” Of course virtually none that can actually fight or train somebody correctly!
      You are an idiot!

  915. Harshman your an idiot. Mr Lightfoots critique is rite on the money. He didn’t insult anyone & made a couple of great points. Harshman you have no idea what you’re talking about, if your not in shape your at a disadvantage no matter your skill. Any fool can see that.

  916. I love how Kevin was going to stay off the site and does not want people to talk about him, but he can say whatever he wants! And I love the classic “I don;t fight, I do self-defense” canard!

  917. You should still be in some form of shape.
    You never know if the guy your dealing with is on something or just bull strong enough to withstand what your throwing and all of a sudden a minute or less turns to a minute or more, then what?
    If you can’t end a situation that turned physical quickly, you BETTER BE IN SHAPE.
    You don’t have to be in boxer or wrestler type shape, just have enough cardio as insurance.
    That is why it is an excellent idea to practice your self defense be it kenpo or other style in a state of semi winded.

    • That was a decent response. It is a good practice by training while semi winded.

      However, I think that training (in martial practices) is more than just cardio. It’s overcoming fear and steadying of the heart rate.

      In the heat of battle our own chemical reactions can either hurt or catapult us. The chemical reaction being adrenaline dumps and lactic acid build up. These factors way more heavily than the context of sport cardio.

      As well in street combat, the fight is short because there is usually a strike or cut that that disrupts thought signals, vision or breathing. Typically, if a real street fight lasts longer than a minute or 2, both combatants are both doing a lot wrong. No soft targets getting hit or torn or incapacitated. Technique and power I think are the major elements in self defense victory. Even if you don’t know anything and you hit the right targets (technique) by accident, you have given yourself a greater chance.

      I was in the video with Mr Shaffer and reviewed the clips; I don’t see the gasping for air or out of breath. But he’s also talking and moving which prevents normal inhale/exhale from happening. I work with athletes who run 6-10 miles a day, work weights like professional athletes and know first hand it does not save from getting winded in a fight or while talking and demonstrating fast.

      Mr Shaffer was not winded. I was probably more “winded” as I was talking more quickly and moving more. But that’s normal for anyone doing both at the same time. Mr Shaffer is not out of shape or carrying excess bodyweight/fat. He may have been nervous or excited when in front of the camera. This too is quite normal and would be those chemical reactions at work and being put under control. At his age he’s doing quite well in comparison with others the same age, many younger and older.

  918. mr libby… i was not talking to or addressing you.. as ususual you stick your nose in others conversations,, if you wish to address me be man enough to do it directly or keep out of it

    • I would have called you a coward to your face but when I issued a challenge you were busy hiding! I would have gone to you and shown you first hand why Kenpo is a joke.
      I have two videos coming out next week and I will be adding links to show what clowns Kenpo practitioners have become! And why they cannot hold a candle to the old days, and why the counters given by Steve and Joshua are laughable.

  919. easy to call someone a coward over the computer but again thats your style and how do you know kenpo is ALL i do,, you dont,, i could get into a pissing contest with you but it serves no purpose;;;i never said all i do is self-defense i said i train to end the confrontation.. having said that,, no wonder people dont post in this group///SMDH

  920. chen style …all i said was one does not have to be in boxer shape to win a fight,, however if youd like to prove to me how much of an idiot .i am,, go for it im easy to find

  921. I’m in australia harshman. Why would I waste thousands of dollars travellin to America to prove your an idiot when yoyr posts remove all doubt. Crawl back in your hole you weasel.

  922. kevin harshman

    yeah i figured words were about as best as you can do,, which really ,,who are you to begin with??? i stated a point of view and rather that simple disagreement you and libby resort to insults and name calling..why is that?? compensation// maybe ?? anyway.. i know i remember why it is futile to post anything here unless you are in agreement with libby and his loons.. so again ill take the high road and bow out,, no doubt ill be called a coward for doing so.. big deal..

  923. Michael Brooks

    Hey Joshua, I really like your latest video with Mr. Shaffer. I actually got a great idea on the elbow strike, and I laughed at someone saying that he needed to get his tummy into shape. Like everyone is training day and night for the next killer fight! And getting into them – and forgot what the meaning of a block was used for! I don’t post too much after someone used my name one time here. It’s like lunnyville here with Chen initially criticizing Ron by being polite, and then eventually attacking everyone else, as the thread progresses. Don’t take these guys seriously Kevin. By the way, Steve Shafer looks a whole lot more flexible and balanced in my opinion than Mr. Libby. And everyone who truly practices Kenpo and dabbles in other arts realizes it has all the kicks, punches and blocks of every other art, as well as hundreds of moves. Worth the time and worth the money. As if someone could put a price on skill and character. Confucius once said: ‘ Be not ashamed of mistakes and thus make them crimes.’

  924. https://youtu.be/ehL90CP4rGY
    The first link is a group of black belts from Bryan Hawkins- all are laughable. Not one could really fight.
    https://youtu.be/SNy6bAjM_Bs
    The second one s from Ralph Selite and Dragon Kenpo. This was a test although the filming makes no sense and most of them make me look skinny. They lack form, power, focus, accuracy, and basics. They are a joke. But all the comments are about how great it was and words like “honor.” This shit honors nobody!
    And Michael brooks you will not show who you are as you are a gutless coward, Joshua Pestaner is a coward who will not spar Irish Billy Mack, and nor will you, and Steve Shaffer would not face me. You three are like the Larry, Moe, and Curly Joe of martial arts.
    And the counter Steve and Joshua did was laughable. But the cult protects the cult to their detriment and just keep the con game going.

  925. Kenpo J,
    You seem very knowledgeable.
    Chief Bud was our equivalent to what Ed Parker was in the Kenpo World.
    The chief taught five different Native American systems of which one closely resembled Kenpo.
    All weapons work was done with real knives and tomohawks.
    Many an elder lost a finger, the least common of training accidents.
    The chief passed last June at the age of 112.
    I have been contacted by the production development division of Black Belt as they are interested in producing an authentic DVD series dedicated to Native American Martial Arts.
    No decision made yet, and if I agree the compensation will be a donation to one of our organizations dedicated to assisting those less fortunate with food and clothing.
    I will not make any money on this endeavor.
    Keep up your excellent evaluation of self defense concepts and the art of Kenpo.

  926. You are eaters of ass.
    The incontinence associated with Schafer and even the higher belt Jeffery Speakman is not a perfect weapon.
    I duly believe that gingivitis and atrocious breath is the ultimate defense.
    Second to that is not bathing, do what India does wipe with oil and crap wherever you want as needed.
    Do kenpo practice people take a bath or do you all reek of rotting sardines?
    Ustedes apestan a fundijo suicide!!!
    No go practice your 300 techniques as you dump chocolate splatter onto your home’s latrine.
    Fos! Que pestelencia!!!!!

  927. gavvarra… what kind of asshole are you anyway??

  928. It’s nice to see the thread get back on track. A few thoughts:

    > The 3 phase idea seems empirically inferior to the combat sports idea of just training with varying amounts of resistance. You don’t learn to shoot a double leg or perform a throw in 3 phases, you learn them by practicing with different levels of resistance going from semi-compliance to full resistance: those who train that way learn what moves actually work and develop the timing to actually pull them off.

    > I once heard a bouncer, Peyton Quinn, say that when someone took up a boxing stance with him he got scared, but when someone took up a Karate stance he breathed a sigh of relief because he knew the fight wouldn’t be a problem, indeed he viewed the opponents Karate training as a constraint keeping the fight from becoming dangerous. The ‘ideal’ phase training methods and thinking of Karate are probably why.

    > Steve Shaffer didn’t look winded. I heard him breath, but it seemed like the breathing of merely having to coordinate projecting the voice for an audience with motion and respiration.

    > The “I train to end fights” idea is rubbish. Do people who say such things imagine that they know some move so dirty that it will end any fight? That they can hit so much harder than a boxer that no attacker could withstand it? That they can pull off an eye-poke / throat strike / groin strike when you can’t even punch a decent boxer in the face? Take that attitude to a decent MMA gym or at least go watch “Gracie in Action”.

    > It is probably true that street fights last less than a minute, but that is no excuse not to be in shape if you plan on streetfighting. They last one minute partly because a 1 minute sprint under conditions of adrenal stress will tire most people out. Moreover, being strong is a huge leg up in any confrontation. Strength training is a fantastic martial art.

  929. kevin harshman

    former kenpo.. yes some cardio is good,…but to think i have to be in boxer condition to survive is pure nonsense,, yes if your ins decent shape and wish to strive to be in better condtion..go for it.. i know of some not in the best of shape older kenpo guys you wouldnt want to tangle with beleive.. when i said i train to end it i meant i dont train in katas or for the tournements.. but for the combative aspect… im learning from guys who had to use what they learned for for real… in the streets,.. not the dojo or the trophy. but to survive

  930. Kevin Kenpo Harshman I am an asshole from back in the day, OK?
    Freedom of words amigo.
    Now, did you brush and bath today?
    I only ask because when you post it reeks of foul stench.
    Here’s hoping that my response has been adequate and acceptable to you Kevin Harshman.
    Hasta la vista baby!

  931. kevin harshman

    gavarra,,, your lack of maturity and intelllegence shines thru every time.. now i know you insult to get a repsonse so i wont play your game ,, when you grow and decide to have a some what meaningful conversation ,,let me know

  932. I do not believe I posted this yet, but it is very accurate. It compares most martial arts systems to science fiction. So many of the people on here would come unglued if they ever had a real fight, and that is proven all the time. Yes, there are the anomalies but most Karate black belts are a joke! She is the girlfriend of Steve Morris who can fight.

    “”Most people think of martial arts and fighting as being more or less synonymous. I see them as a Venn diagram of two sets that overlap by a tiny margin. This is because most martial artists don’t fight and their training isn’t directly based on what happens in a fight.

    There are reasons for this. The problem of training for a fight is a tricky one. If an instructor puts students in an actual fight (as opposed to highly controlled drills with restricted moves), they might get seriously hurt. But if instructors can’t create an accurate representation of a fight in the gym, trainees will never really be tested. To make up for the lack of fighting, martial arts typically focus on displays of fake combat that illustrate the combative moves that have been passed down through history. They may have non-contact or light contact fighting, but this only tests your ability to touch the other person with the techniques you have been taught–not your ability to hurt them for real much less take a beating yourself.

    Most people who study martial arts study a system. Whether the system is historical (like kung fu and karate) or modern (like Systema and Krav Maga) the techniques are taught formally, with ranks, with semi-compliant drilling between members of the same school, and with a heavy dose of hierarchy that keeps everybody in their place. With a few exceptions (Gracie Barra jiu-jitsu is one system that grades predominantly through hard competition) the idea of all-out fighting is a theoretical one, kept well in the background.

    But fighting is chaotic. It’s often unpredictable. It doesn’t systemize well and it’s difficult to pass on as a body of knowledge. What people don’t realize is that no matter how effective the founder of a discipline may have been in his (or in the case of Wing Chun, her) day, unless the practices of that system involve rigorous testing in realistic fighting conditions against non-compliant opponents from outside your system, you can never really know whether you can make their moves work for you.

    It’s not a big leap to get from martial arts to religion. To a greater or lesser degree, you are expected to take what’s being taught to you on faith.

    There are a lot of problems with this, but perhaps the most offensive to me is the fact that a person can rise to high rank and great influence without possessing any fighting ability whatsoever. Thus is born a cycle of bullshit. You have someone teaching you (allegedly) to fight, but they have no fighting experience themselves let alone the know-how to help you. If you go along with this long enough, you can aspire to turn around and teach others one day. Ad infinitum; ad nauseum.

    I’ve been a part of that cycle. When you realize what’s going on, it’s disheartening. And the more heavily you are invested in the hierarchy, the deeper the disillusionment, and the more difficult to throw away your investment. Even if your investment turns out to be shite. For years, even after I saw karate guys biting the dust against trained grapplers in the UFC cage, I believed that the great karate masters from my former school’s lineage had some special combative power that was too dangerous for the UFC. I thought that if they weren’t fighting in these contests it must be because they were too spiritual–not because they’d be shit-scared to try.

    This is what happens when you have a powerful imagination. Fundamentally, I’m a nerd. And I swallowed a lot of bullshit because I wanted to be a part of a warrior culture (groping notwithstanding). I later learned that many people have made the same mistakes that I did.

    By contrast to me, my partner was an athlete and street fighter from a very young age. In his youth Steve was kicked out of Kyokushin Kai for excessive contact so he moved to Japan, where he trained so hard he earned a third degree black belt from Yamaguchi Gogen within a year. When he got back from Japan he ran a martial arts club in central London for many years while researching global fight training methods and their history. Around 1973 Steve started an ‘anything goes’ fight class where all methods and techniques were allowable–it was a kind of proto fight club. He told me that the immediate result was that the white belts started beating up the black belts and the black belts fled the club in droves.

    Steve’s not famous, but people in the know are aware of him and what he does. Over the years a lot of higher ranks have walked through his door looking for guidance, and I personally observed any number of black belts come undone under even mild pressure. They realized painfully that their system had failed them.

    Many made an initial effort to change. A few threw away what they’d learned and worked very hard to start over with a fight-centred approach. These guys did improve massively, and they developed self-reliance and self-respect–one became a successful professional MMA fighter. Some quit the martial arts. Many others–I’d say the majority–soon realized how hard it was going to be to deal with the challenges of fight training, and went back to their systems. They seemed chagrined, embarrassed–but not enough to let go of their status in a recognized hierarchy. Some of these guys are quite highly ranked teachers with respected credentials.

    I could never understand this last response. Before I realized I was crap at fighting it was maybe understandable that I placed faith in my karate training. But once you see something, you can’t very well un-see it. Unless you are an ostrich. Or you run a dojo.

    Which brings me at last to the parallels between science fiction and the martial arts. Over the years I’ve formed the opinion that both are most commonly used as means of escape from reality. Nothing wrong with escapism as a thing–you need to be honest about it, though, and martial arts tend to fail big in that department.””

    • There was a woman who posted on this this thread earlier and said the same things. Is that where you copied this?hahaha. She even was selling this as her most effective martial art, form of Krav Maga, developed by her late husband Steve. She does classes for like $150/half hour(very laughible). This is a sham itself.

      • No, not the same. And the article is quite good. And this coming from a school that promotes by DVDs! Hey, when are you sparring with Irish Billy Mack chickenshit? I guess you and Shaffer do videos together as you are both cowards. And neither one of you knows a thong about fighting!
        Now go peddle some DVDS!

      • Joshua, do you ever get tired of being wrong? The woman’s name is Patricia Sullivan and I was wrong in that she is not Steve Morris’ girlfriend. She seems to push the JKD, Kali/escrima, and BJJ ideas. She says little about Krav Maga.
        But I love your logic- “some woman” who advertises for Krav Mage. No name, no magazine article, but a slur of somebody you know nothing about.
        What’s wrong ? DVD sales down? People starting to realize that Kenpo is bullshit? Or just facing the fact that you are too chickenshit to spar with a real fighter like Irish Billy Mack? I guess being a chickenshit goes all the way back to the founder, Ed Parker, but he hid behind his wife!

  933. Kenpo explained yet again

    Libby. You are a flea on the ass of a German Shepard. And just in case you’re so dense as to not understand the metaphor; Kenpo is the German Shepard. No wonder Ed Parker ignored you…an annoying fly buzzing around his head. While he was building the IKKA you’re whining and challenging and playing stompy feet.
    Whaaah! No one will fight me!!!
    You are so far removed from what’s happening in Kenpo you can’t see straight.
    Your multiple paragraph post lambasting martial arts and Kenpo in particular are issues that have been highlighted and written about for years. It’s nothing new. You bring up old obsolete problems that have long ago been put to rest. By way review I’ll list a few items that Ed Parker wrote about in his 5 volume book series called infinite Insights into Kenpo.
    First, Ed Parker declares that his techniques are ideas. NOT rules. Which is what I’ve attempted to teach you in my video responses. Even Dave Hebler (a Parker BB) says no one is going to pull off a technique by the book in a street altercation.
    The techniques help guide a student toward martial art mastery so that he/she understands the many options that are possible.
    It’s laughable to suggest that a Kenpo practitioner will stay in the ideal phase. The student moves on as greater skill is achieved. More challenges are added and his/her conditioning is improved so that eventually they become spontaneous. Which is the point of any martial art endeavor.
    If all you want to do is punch that’s perfectly OK. Ed Parker Kenpo teaches punching too! (Vol 2 of. 144 discusses the skills of slipping, bobbing, and weaving) And further, EPAK also teaches elbows, knees, trips, buckles, grabs, pokes, chokes, kicks, claws, palm heels, inside forearms, outside forearms, head butting, top of fist, bottom fist, edge of hand, and the list goes on.
    You’re that guy Parker wrote about in Vol 1. (Pg. 6) He’s in a well looking up and his only reality of the sky is what he sees from the bottom of the well. Kenpo is the entire sky but you’re content to stay in the well.
    You are so critical of the techniques that you’ve forgotten their main point. My Thundering Hammers video (in response to your false premise of Thundering Hammers as stupid) with Josh was to explain that it’s simply an example of how one could use the inside forearm, And if the attacker folds what’s available if you encounter that body position. It’s all about Tools & targets. I even did a ‘what if’ if the attacker doesn’t fold I kicked the knee joint (Leaping Crane) I adjust depending on how the attacker moves. I keep my hands up and use everything at my disposal to stop the attack.
    That same forearm as taught in Thundering Hammers could strike the neck….By golly, that’s Sleeper! Or I could strike the groin. Oh my! That’s Dance of Death! How about I not do any of those and just step off and kick! Wait! That’s Evading the Storm!
    The forearm and its various uses is crossed referenced to the feet.
    I can kick with my instep, or bottom with the heel, or sides. In the same way, I can punch and strike with any part of my arm depending on the target availability. This lines up with what Ed Parker wrote, “Your choice of natural weapon is determined by the position, angle, or distance you are from your opponent.” (Vol. 4, pg. 31)
    Even the special forces uses similar language to training in their combatives: Crawling, walking, running. At each level new challenges are introduced. Parker called his ideal, what if, then spontaneous.
    This absurd notion that Kenpo is not about fighting is false and laughable. Parker’s 4th volume is nearly entirely devoted to mental and physical preparation concepts for self defense.
    For a more thorough review of Kenpo please checkout “Kenpo Perspectives” by Michael Miller available on Amazon. Robert Libby was not contacted or had anything to do with this book and therefore it is much more truthful, fair and enlightening.

    • So let me see, oh yeah, a gutless coward who would not accept my challenge is quoting another gutless coward who threatened my students and was not man enough to fight me.
      And you did a ridiculous video that was filled with mistakes with another coward who runs his punk mouth yet will not spar a guy how own size.
      Grow some balls you prissy little bitch!

      • It’s pointless to reason with a sociopath but I’ll try.
        At the outset Libby, you’ve mocked, insulted, bullied, spewed vulgarities and the list goes on. I’ve never cursed you at all. And furthermore… Libby, Your constant repetition of this so called challenge was a non starter from the beginning.
        If I had accepted and ended up hurting you I lose. You could fall and re injure your shoulder, I might kick your knee and damage your ACL, and boom, I’m sued for medical, and no release is gonna hold up in court by two grown men willfully going at It over 45 year old pent up rage-grudge that doesn’t change a thing.
        In fact, the studio owner would not have allowed a fight on the property for liability reasons. If you hurt me I lose as I may be out of work and in the hospital, etc. And I can’t afford that lost time over a silly fight that should not have happened in the first place.
        So I’m not a paper tiger I’m actually using better judgement. Who the hell immediately wants to fight just because we’re having a debate?!!! It’s so juvenile and confirms that you are a disturbed person. And more importantly, you leveled some outrageous charges against a guy who’s been dead nearly 26 years.
        So I answered some of them, others I couldn’t speak to…since I wasn’t there! Whatever history I bring is from published articles and books in my collection.
        If all the magazines were wrong, where was your rebuttal article? Letters to the editor usually get printed after 3-4 months of the article being referred too. No letter or article by Libby anywhere to be found.
        Some history I do know is Ed Parker’s Blackbelt certificate from Chow is reprinted in the book “Memories of Ed Parker” by his wife Lillani Parker.
        Ed Parker was in fact a Blackbelt. And yes, Ed Parker was self promoted, but it was over decades. As his system developed and got organized he moved up. He even is quoted as saying that the Kenpo he teaches is his own. He was the master of Ed Parker Kenpo as he improved it over the years from his early days of basic movements learned from William Chow.
        His legacy is secure as the father of American Kenpo. Whatever other American Kenpo system is out there be it Tracy’s, Villari’s, Sullivan, Steve Muhammad, Labounty, Cerio, Mike Pick, Trejo, and many others; all, repeat, all have their roots from Ed Parker.
        You complain about stupid Kenpo techniques and wanted a rebuttal video and you got it…from both me and Kenpo J. How poetic. We answered your video because you set up the technique discussion to fail from the beginning. It’s an obvious straw man argument. You rant that Kenpo is a fraud,
        Let’s review Kenpo. the system has punches, kicks, knees, elbows and guess what? So does your almighty Vunak fighting.
        Kenpo addresses defenses against Grabs, pushes, punches, knife, club, and gun attacks. So does other systems. And Kenpo has a few multiple attack tech. The system teaches forms, sets, staff, sticks, you can spar, and hey you’ll like this, you can even get into the full contact fight game. If the Kenpo system ain’t for you then go learn something else.
        As for me, Kenpo is my base art, from there I’ve taken seminars in Hapkido, Gracie Jujitsu (yes really) from Hickson Gracie, stick fighting by Al McGluckie, boxing by Steve Shepard & Joe Lewis, and kicking by Bill Wallace.
        I’m a 57 years old Army vet that worked out with other martial art army guys and some were Green Beret bad asses, I’m now happy to share what I’ve learned in my 36 plus years.
        I’ve been practicing Kenpo for a long time (earned my Blackbelt in 1996) and I’ve heard it all. Kenpo is ultimately about having options. You learn the movements and practice so that you become spontaneous, and this helps refine your self defense so that an altercation ends quickly. If it boils down to a hook, and an uppercut then great! (Hint: review Five Swords).

        • Yawn!!!!!!!!!! Another long winded Kenpo apologetic. But you would not face me head to head and I gave you all the advantages. You are a coward. It is that simple. And you know nothing about fighting.

        • Michael Brooks

          Steve, I can’t find anywhere this ‘Robert’ is legitimate. He’s not listed on any of the Parker tree lineage, has had no students he promoted to Black Belt in any other style, and it was noted on another blog that he and Ron Morgan were using the same IP address. He’s probably some wannabe who is watching yours, and other videos, and producing a few with his own variations. He’s might be some other style trying to stir things up with all his bizarre stories about Kenpo and Mr. Parker. He said he was given a black belt by Paul Dalton, however all the lineages of Mr. Dalton don’t show any Robert Libby’s. Weird how a person would go to such lengths though.

        • Like Pestaner you are lying. I never once said a “fight.” I said I would use no offensive strikes and I would just resist your technique.
          So what are you talking about? You have no idea what uis going on in martial arts and are clueless.
          And to compare what Vunak’s PFS does to Kenpo shows you are insane. Your training is totally different. You in no way train like us. We do not so forms, we have no preset techniques, and we fight to be promoted.
          You are totally brainwashed and delusional, And your video with Joshua was ridiculous. And in your Clutching Feathers video you wound up agreeing with me! You said the technique was unrealistic!

        • You’re a jerk…you stink, your kenpo ain’t good.

    • Okay Steve and Joshua, and other Kenpo Klowns, let’s go back to the basics!
      All your long winded explanations are meaningless as they are all based on fallacious concepts. Almost all of the terminology used in Kenpo is not fact not fight based. It is there for the cult to have instructions and be sucked in; sort of like junk science.
      Let’s look at the players:
      Ed Parker never had a fight in his life. Ed Parker was promoted to 5th degree black belt and 10th degree black belt by his cronies and that is openly known. Ed Parker also probably never had a black belt awarded to him when he was wearing one! Ed Parker refers to himself as a “Honolulu street fighter” but those in the know say he never had a fight. All video evidence from the 1960s to the 1990s have Ed Parker looking like a fool and a crappy martial artist.
      Steve Shaffer: a coward and windbag who when asked to do a friendly challenge as to the efficacy of Kenpo grab techniques first accepted and then folded up like the punk he is, and with me giving him all the advantages and me willing to walk into his school alone! He wears a 4th degree black belt yet knows nothing about fighting, and any halfway decent street fighter would annihilate him. Steve is a paper tiger and fool!
      Joshua Pestaner: a liar who invents people. I showed a part of an article and to Joshua she is “some woman” who may have been a con artist, but has no real names, no proof, and no copy of the ad he claims to have seen!
      Now Joshua claims Irish Billy Mack is some 60 year old Jewish guy that has of course only contacted Joshua- more fairy tales from Joshua and that “special knowledge” that only he and Kenpo disciples receive! Maybe Irish Billy Mack is a made up guy, but we do know that Joshua, a liar, is the only person here to admit to using more than one screen name and lying about it. How typical of a con man who gets promoted by DVDs being watched!
      Here is my track record with Kenpo people- I chose off a Kenpo black belt named Ron Wilstein as he slapped around and humiliated some of my white belts who were like 14 years old. When I showed up ALONE at the designated time and place, at his school, he was not there as he had a pulled groin muscle- how convenient. I called back and he refused to face me.
      Ed Parker- he lied about me and slandered me. He also called a place I was teaching at and threatened to beat up my students- quite the tough guy! And he did this because some green belt who had not trained in years made up a totally insane story. That shows how unstable Ed Parker was. He always has “stories” to explain his indiscretions. But he hid behind his wife’s skirts and chickened out just like the Milo Savage fight. Ed Parker also totally screwed over Paul Dalton for no reason but to bring in his own people and also Paul Dalton has been learning some other arts and I am sure Ed did not like that. And Paul kept the school immaculate and worked like a dog every day to learn. He lived in the back on an army cot!
      So I saved Ed’s financial ass with a lot of other Kenpo people and this is how that punk pays people back! Paul Dalton lived in the school and worked like a slave and Ed Parker totally fucked him!
      So Ed Parker has also beaten 5 guys with knives and clubs in 7 seconds- what a load of bullshit! And now it has grown to 10 guys!
      Below is a copy of a response Kenpo guy made to me when I stated that many things about Ed Parker were untrue. It is from Bart Vales piece on YouTube on the roots of Chinese Kenpo:
      “LOL, I’m Not falling for your TROLLING for GAY encounters. You obviously know NOTHING about Martial art’s. But I bet you give “Head” even better than your Daddy. I’ll block you now as I’m not interested GAYBOY! 3:) ?”
      This is very similar to things said by Joshua Pestaner as far as just crazy shit! Remember Joshua and his “go put on your nightgown grandma” comment? Yet Joshua would never say that to my face as he is a punk and coward. And as he will not face Irish Billy Mack he goes to lies and insults.
      Kenpo hs turned into a haven for nutcases and punks.
      So please submit one video of Ed Parker looking competent! Please submit one video of a Kenpo technique ever working in a sparring match or real fight! If it will jot work in sparring it will not work in a fight! And Kenpo does not work!

  934. Michael Brooks

    If UFC was superior to karate, no UFC fighter would lose to even a UFC fighter, if we’re using that logic. And they have a lot of rules. And you can’t strike in the groin etc. Kenpo is the tree you turn into the hurricane if you practice long enough. And even the hurricane changes into something else. 🙂

  935. Every successful kenpo fighter in MMA/UFC NEVER used any kenpo.
    This goes all the way back to Keith Hackney.
    Stuff does not work under stressful conditions.
    Call it a day guys.
    Come to the realization that Libby is on point with his observations.
    I viewed the Joshua and Shaffer video.
    Not all bad and you can see both are good instructors, but the techniques they demo would only work if they clocked the attacker, stun him, and get the stuff off.
    After viewing Libby videos I concluded that Mr. Shaffer would have an extremely difficult time if they went at it.
    Just on size alone.
    I would love to see a video with Joshua and/or Shaffer contact sparring a strong, aggressive guy to see if they can apply their kenpo.
    If either does this it would gain them much respect and I’m sure the critics here would curtail their war of the words.
    Do another video against a non compliant aggressive opponent.

  936. Ay.

    What is the definition of Kenpo? Is it the techniques, individual movements, lineage, or what?

    Hackney did ball smaching to this one Asian guy like 30 times consecutively. That is off a Kenpo premise that in self defense you go for soft targets(like the groin.) Eventually the guy was done. Nice irony was that the Asian guy a few years later was busted for being a part of a gang rape and murder of woman years earlier.

    Kenpo has its unique combinations and techniques, all of it is based off of simple basic movements. Kenpo still uses jabs, reverse punches, hooks, front kicks, side kicks, spin kicks etc. But that’s not Kenpo right? Then what is it? Just basic movements that almost all martial arts share. Kenpo is practiced by thousands of people and has saved many people. There’s no epidemic of Kenpo practitioners dying all the time in fights, hahaha.

    Does anyone win a UFC contest with an eye poke or groin strike? What happens? Fight is paused and fighter checked if they can continue. Eye pokes often end fights or attacks in general. So do groin strikes. If these attacks accidental or on purpose hurt a fighter too much, there is an end to the fight, disqualification, NC and the guy injured takes the W. I think Kenpo is in the rings and cages a lot, but don’t get Ws.

    I saw a boxing fight on live TV. This guy kept smashing this guy in the balls on purpose. I never seen a pro fight like this. The guy was older and obviously didn’t want to fight the other guy. What did the other guy do? Nothing. He just got hit in the balls like 8 times literally and couldn’t stop it. Kenpo premise prevailed again, but not for a W. But allowed this guy to not fight and walk away without injury.

    Libby, is old, very overweight, out of shape, slow, inflexible, and broken. Being “strong” and heavy maybe his only “advantages” in any kind of fight. I have shown some clips of me fighting already. And Libby is funny saying I hit lightly, haha.

    I got a mouse under my eye right now from a lot of contact fighting I did before going to work yesterday. I trained a private student this morning by giving him a very difficult workout and then following that up by having him evade my punches, kicks, plum holds and knees. I’m not very soft. I am in far better shape physically and fight wise than most, but I don’t get too satisfied with that and continue working.

    My grappling and Kenpo has been very beneficial in my line of work in security, bouncing and now teaching troubled youth who come in with the same doubts you guys have. I love it. Many of these kids/teenagers come with house arrest bracelets on and petty or severe crimes under their belts. They often think they are great street fighters or boxers(usually they just watch and think they know.) We find out quickly what’s real.

    This thread just seems to get more humourous and more pointless. James, why don’t you post something. I’ve done a bunch already, Libby has, Schaffer has. Let’s see what’s good. I’d love to learn and appreciate what you have.

    And Libby, your Irish mack was not real. He was a make believe character. He called and told me. This time changing his name to Julian Goldstein and was really like 60 years old. I don’t know what to believe and frankly it doesn’t matter. There can be a lot of fun and sharing on this thread, but things get stuck on stupidity.

  937. That is the point in my next videos ( I was late from Malaysia).
    When I do say a front trap called pak sao from JKD/Kali?Wing Chun and a front hand strike I can practice it, I can spar with it, and I can fight with it.
    Now with Kenpo all you can do is the “technique line.” Please show me a video where a technique is ever used as taught in a fight or sparring? ANd even the ones without eye hsots or dirty stuff. It is physically impossible to do!
    And what do you get from Joshua Pestaner, Steve Shaffer, or Shawn J. Moore? A long winded Kenpo promotion with tons of holes and zero logic. It was a groin punch- THAT’S KENPO! To them all is Kenpo and only fools cannot see that in their eyes. They are in a cult!
    As to your other point, they will never spar anybody as they are untrained clowns! I gave Steve Shaffer every edge and he whined like a little girl and threatened me with arrest. Irish Billy Mack wants to spar Joshua Pestaner- no way as Joshua is a coward like Steve Shaffer.
    Kenpo has become a joke! But what do you expect with people who promote themselves to high ranking belts, test people’s skills via DVD, lie all the time about fights that never happened, and run at the first sign of any challenge! And Ed Parker has done all the above (he never tested by DVD). That is the Ed Parker legacy- to be a fraud and con people!

  938. The only thing you are Joshua is a coward. I also notice how Kenpo people go to outrageous lies when exposed!
    Yes, I am fat. But I can kick your ass any day of the week!
    And all your history lessons are pure crap! You are a fake martial artist and coward. You are just like Ed Parker, Mills Crenshaw, and so many other Kenpo frauds!

  939. Julian Goldstein is an older Jewish man who happens to be a pad holder at the gym.
    He’s been hanging around the boxing gyms for years.
    And I do believe he’s in his late 60’s.
    He is not me!
    I hope that I’m not lured back into this bs.
    Also can’t believe you guys are still arguing about kenny po.
    Either start getting along or scrap it out once and for all!
    Last, I think Libby is the real deal here.
    It looks like pretense simply hates him and has 0 respect for his abilities.
    Pestering vs Irish Billy….and the winner by brutal ko, BILLY MACK!

  940. Your very welcome.
    After the fall events that will be it for me.
    Might start adding your street drills to my boxing as I get more into training to build my boxing for self defense.
    I appreciate your encouragement.
    You deserve respect from the people here who are “paper tigers” and not the real deal like you.
    Reem them everytime they talk crap.

    • I will be doing some more fight tips soon and how to work out of the clinch. I will also be adding knees. elbows, biting, and some dirty wrestling and pretty vicious shots!
      And thanks for the support and respect!

  941. Pester,
    You should be ashamed of yourself.
    To state that Libby is old, overweight and the other crap, IS CRAP!
    From his videos I can tell he would do a number on the crap talkers here.
    My trainers are old, overweight, and not in great shape.
    But I would NEVER disrespect them by making such comments.
    They have valuable knowledge and can and have handled young fighters.
    Your gonna grow old too chump.
    I hope your students start bad mouthing you when your out of shape, old, and overweight.
    Maybe you’ll spar a young one when your aging and he’ll break you!
    You are a talker with limited abilities buddy.
    Face those facts.
    We got girls in the gym that would hand you your, as they say in Latino culo.
    The next time you decide to do one of your “instruction” videos comb your mane, brush your teeth, and smile.
    The smell was making your partner gag and lose his wind.

  942. Yes, Ron and I did have the same IP address as he was in Thailand using our family computer.
    In the Parker family tree it goes Paul Dalton, Mark Mitchell, then Charles McDerris. I kicked in Charles McDerris as Paul and Mark promoted me be fore Charles.
    Ed would not put me on as I chose him off and he chickened out! I totally embarrassed and exposed what a coward he really was!
    Asshole, I am on YouTube so I am not hiding behind a keyboard like you you cunt! So who are you?
    People who can back up what I say; Tom Bleecker, Vic LeRoux, Albert Cornejo, Leo Monahan, Paul Dalton, Mark Mitchell, David Laredo, Norm Pattiz. Tom Kelly, Jim Demecke, Richard Carthew, Robert Eisele, George Quinones, John Henderson, Carl Schalyo, George Waite, Richard Huk Planas, Alex Sensenbrenner and many more. And I was running the school before Huk was there. He came down from I believe Dinuba, CA. And Huk went to Alaska with Gil Hibben or to see Gil there. I can even tell you the rifle Huk carried- a 375 H&H
    I ran the Santa Monica school and always wore a black belt there. And hundreds new me.
    I am on YouTube- so fuck you! You don’t even have the guts to show who you are and you are using the name of a Kenpo karate kid in Utah!
    Like most Kenpoists you are a gutless coward! And where are the videos showing how wrong I am- there are none as I am right and you are a punk!

    • I can easily call or contact a few of these men. But what am I asking? That you existed and exist now? That doesn’t really matter does it?

      Many of those names if not all of them are lifelong Kenpo guys. A few of them did cross training with Danny Inosanto ,other JKD frontier instructors and many others. Why they continue the Kenpo lineage? These guys weren’t pushovers either. They’re also your elders. Your arguments don’t make any sense.

      Your videos aren’t really teaching anything either. Do you not have anything original? And please knock it off with the replies saying others are long winded. I have read much of your stories that should have chapters or articles you have cut and pasted. You can be more original than that. Can’t you?

      • They can verify that I ran the Ed Parker school, that I started there as a kid, and was a black belt.
        And Joshua, anybody who tells as many lies as you should just shut the fuck up!
        You say Irish Billy Mack was Julius Goldstein- a lie. You just invent shit when you are angry. At least what I type is accurate. Your mentor Greg Payne does not know shit and nor do you! I have shown that on Bad Kenpo Techniques 8 where I critique a video of his. You said Payne had boxed, and the video shows he knows nothing about boxing. You claim he did Kyokushinkai yet he doesn’t seem to know anything about it!
        And nothing original? At least what I show works! All you do is 50 year old Kenpo that does not work.
        Call Vic LeRoux as he is IKCA. And he is not my senior as we came up together. He was from Crenshaw and I was from Santa Monica. I used to spar against him in the inter-school tournaments. It was anybody below brown belt. I was the youngest guy to ever be on it. Norm Pattiz ran our team. Call Tom Bleecker. Albert Cornejo used to train at The School of Chinese Karate where I was promoted to black belt and I did most of the teaching. Albert taught a few classes there and he was training with Jimmy W. Woo then. We put together a Saturday workout with us and Albert and Leo Monahan. A lot of the old Kenpo guys came by there and we had no problems.
        It was Ed Parker and his blatant insecurity that made problems!

      • Well at least I am not so “original” that I lie to people and use two names. And I am not a coward- you cannot say that!
        And a lot of people love my videos and even Kenpo people have commented on their accuracy!

      • https://youtu.be/xbqgmNIEyUI
        A 9th degree Kenpo black belt that uses an open hand reverse back knuckle to the back of a person’s head- PATHETIC! These people are 5th degree or higher and know nothing and their execution proves it!

  943. This may be what happened, since he isn’t listed as a Paul Duncan black belt or anywhere else. Could have been a green going to a Brown who ended up switching and teaching at other schools, but calling himself a black belt and eventually everyone bought the story. Anyway, he isn’t shown in the Tracy Brother’s extensive history of early Ed Parker history. By the way, Ed Parker initially taught Albert Cornejo for free. And Paul Vanak’s, an extremely skilled martial artist and super teacher has a statement on his Progressive Fighting Skills website ‘I am a proud student of the brilliant masters before me.’ Trained under Danny Inosanto, who also trained in arts such as Ed Parker’s Kenpo Karate. His best student teacher’s and their pictures are shown there.

    • Libby’s history in CA is correct. I contacted Huk Planas and he in fact confirmed he taught for awhile. Tom Bleeker had posted here and confirmed it as well as did Rainer Shulte both Parker guys at that time. What puzzles me is the white hot anger after so many years. And anyone who remotely defends Parker is immediately the focus of his hatefulness, cursing and school yard challenges. Sad really, very sad.

      • https://youtu.be/X134IfiDako
        The above link is Joe Lewis testing a guy for a black belt under him. That is how I test. If you cannot fight full contact you NEVER get a black belt!
        What you are teaching is a fraud and you should be ashamed!
        At least unlike Joshua Pestaner and Michael Brooks you are not a liar! As you have just verified I did have a black under Parker and did teach for him.
        I pride myself on not lying. The biggest impediment to Kenpo was Ed Parker.

      • Here you go Steve. Now tell me this is realistic!
        https://youtu.be/SNy6bAjM_Bs
        Here’s another one that is laughable, and I love how the one guy vibrates when he does his techniques. This is comic book bullshit. It epitomizes dead training and teaches nothing but false confidence and gets you killed in the street!
        https://youtu.be/ehL90CP4rGY
        Here Ed decides to grade on a curve and just pass everybody- the death of standards. A big reason why I left. Would the Gracies ever give somebody an 8th degree black belt just because they are a star? No way. Ed O’Neill tokk 16 years to get his BJJ black belt. Ashton Kutcher earns his belts. They have standards. And in the 1960s you owuld not be a green belt. Sorry, but that is a fact.
        Here Kenpo people are doing Hubud, but they are doing it all wrong! They do not use the male and female triangles, no foot work, and no upper body shifting or miving the head. I love how so many Kenpo people say they are teaching something but they have never really studied it.
        https://youtu.be/hdSNWTIJI7I

      • And the “white hot anger” came from this site! People have called ma drunk, a liar, and a fraud. Michael Brooks who assaults my integrity yet will not say who he is- coward. Mills Crenshaw who is a provable liar. Kevin Harshman who hid until I ripped my shoulder out and then chooses me off, And oyu Steve who do not even have the balls for a challenge of ideas. I gave you the rules and then you lied about it. Ed Parker’s American Kenpo has turned into a joke. And Ed was the main person responsible!
        But I never mentioned this stuff for decades. It was my entry to the Internet that set me off- so many con artists ripping people off!

      • https://youtu.be/27Fh7xzjdFY
        Here’s another one Steve- 9th degree and so many errors. A heel palm to the chest that is shot with a swinging motion? Bullshit. It will do no damage. And when he goes for his grab he is wide open for a counter cross. And it relies on the guy standing side horse. The back knuckle to the hand is a great idea but to the forearm does little when one is pumped up.
        I sparred a black belt and all I did was walk at him like a normal walk; no stances and din;t even raise my hands.- he panicked. I finally walked him into a wall. Just buy a slight change from his paradigm he was helpless. But he knew all the forms. all the techniques, and was helpless!
        I can do this ll day!

      • And one little side note here- a lot of people on this site owe me one huge apology.
        So many of you rather than just making one phone call kept leaning on me. Funny, that’s exactly what Ed did. Rather than look at the issue objectively you all ran to the cult and circled the wagons.
        But none of you has enough class to admit you are dead wrong about me!

        • Michael Brooks

          Absolutely not. Nothing gives you the right to act the way you’re acting and the language you use. At best you’re a low class black belt, if that can be established, who never passed the arts down over the years. Now you have a GOD complex. I’m not buying.

      • Michael Brooks

        To me, until the facts are all fairly established, your answer was he taught for a while, but what about where he got his black belt and from whom? He said he ran the school. Another thing to consider is there is a Robert ‘Bob’ Liles who is a first generation Black Belt and listed, whereas this Robert Libby is not listed anywhere. Show us the certificate Mr. Libby.

        • I do not have to show a complete asshole like you a thing. My certificate was from Paul Edward Dalton more than 40 years ago.
          And this from an asshole that will not even show who he is? Who do you think you are you useless little fuck! So stay in the shadows where you belong you cockroach!. My case has been proven. And If I ever find out who you are I going to kick your ass for fun!
          But I am pretty sure this is Joshua under a third name- this fits his style of being a snake!

          • Michael Brooks

            Too many people have accepted your challenge in the past and listed their addresses. Maybe you should start by stating your address. Not somewhere in Thailand or Malaysia.

          • How about you accept my challenge when my shoulder heals? Nice how they do it after a near fatal motorcycle accident.
            Now fuck off. No one has to pay attention to an asshole like you. You are a joke! All you are is a petty instigator. You won’t even post who you are asshole!

        • Michael, nobody has ever accepted my challenge and nobody has left an address or phone number. You are quite obviously very mentally ill- get help!

      • Michael Brooks

        Actually there’s still some unanswered questions they raised as to all of his claims. It wouldn’t be unusual for a purple or green belt to have taught classes or even lived briefly at a dojo. And there was a Paul Dalton was also with Chuan Fa, but Paul didn’t list him as a black belt in the early Kenpo lineages or later. Additionally there is a claim that someone was going to bump him from 1st to 3rd degree black belt??? Just a dojo jock who was a fighter like everyone else.

      • https://youtu.be/xbqgmNIEyUI
        Watch this one Steve. Kenpo is a loke and you have no defenses.

      • And to sum it up Steve, the video I posted has 3 Kenpoists with about 70 years combined experience and not one can shoot a proper hand strike.
        Just like with Ed Parker the videos destroy all your weak defenses and petty rationalizations!
        You and Joshua are a couple of idiots when it comes to martial arts and neither of you is fit to have a black belt!

    • Hey Michael Brooks, or whoever you are, this is from Steve Shaffer:
      “Libby’s history in CA is correct. I contacted Huk Planas and he in fact confirmed he taught for awhile. Tom Bleeker had posted here and confirmed it as well as did Rainer Shulte both Parker guys at that time. What puzzles me is the white hot anger after so many years. And anyone who remotely defends Parker is immediately the focus of his hatefulness, cursing and school yard challenges. Sad really, very sad.”
      The anger comes from the fraud that Kenpo has become- Karate in a can. Kenpo went from a system moving forwards to a cult joke.

  944. Brooks,
    You wanna spar?
    I’m not in Asia, so let’s do this!
    I need to tune up for the golden gloves this fall.
    Give me some work, you jerk!
    I’ll spring the $ and fly out to your area.
    We can do a friendly sparring match with headgear and 16 oz gloves, how about it?
    Come on Michael Brooks accept!
    I’m on my knees begging you to spar with me.
    Let’s do this!

    • Irish Billy Mack my man cowards do not spar. And I feel this is Joshua Pestaner using another screen name- it has that same chickenshit feel to it!
      Notice how they want all this proof from me but that every time they contact the old timers they all know who I am?
      It is sad what has happened to an art that could have been great instead of watered down garbage!
      Good luck you amigo!

    • Michael Brooks

      The day you post the release form you said you had your relative drew up, and a valid telephone number, and go and meet Joshua and show you are a real person, I, as well as any number of people, would be glad to accept a match with someone who claims he’ll fight with 16 ounce gloves and no groin cup against another who doesn’t have to even wear gloves.

    • Michael Brooks

      Your original challenge was this: ‘I will give you every possible advantage.
      All your karate stuff(kicks,punches, elbows, etc)and if you want I will use 16 OZ gloves you can use 6 OZ gloves.
      If you want to put your throwing and stuff that’s ok too.
      I am only going to use boxing and slugging.’ (Are you starting to get smarter about your originally really stupid boast?) It happens when you hang around Kenpo people.

  945. Michael Brooks

    I have become to be interested in Progressive Fighting Skills thru this website and noticed their interests in promoting character as well as self defense teachings. This one in particular caught my eye from Rick Caudle. ‘Although I teach practical ways to protect yourself and your loved ones, I encourage you to Pray for Peace. Not just for our nation, but for the World. Reach out to those less fortunate than you, and be good to one another. Always remember: Nothing is as strong as pure gentleness and nothing is as gentle as pure strength.’ Progressive Fighting Systems have a history with Kenpo Karate. http://www.oocities.org/tnjkd/

  946. WOW! I feel so spiritual. I love how idiots like you dind one little kernel on the Internet and think that somehow says it all. Did you know that PFS and JKD teachings are in direct opposition to Kenpo?
    JKD/PFS does not use the upward, outward, inward, downward, or push down block as in Kenpo. They use no preset forms. They have no names or intricate lists of preset techniques. And to be promoted you have to be able to fight and perform and not be good in a technique line.
    I have heard PFS/JKD people call Kenpo a waste of time, a joke, and a “dead system.” But then again I actually trained and fought unlike your heroes!
    I love how members of cults always show their stupidity and desperation.
    So who are you coward? Come on out of the shadows cockroach!

  947. Michael Brooks

    You still haven’t posted your address in the shadows. Your little old shoulder?! I rode a motorcycle for 10 years and nothing else and never had an accident. I guess Kenpo trained are more aware. What a whiner!

  948. Brooks,
    That was my original challenge.
    I changed it to make it easier for you to accept.
    If you want all those advantages, then my original is back in effect.
    I don’t need to post jack shit!
    You accept and then I will start the process of when, where, etc.
    You’ve been playing the run around game for way too long Brooks.
    Either you respond with a yes or no.
    If yes, an email and/or phone contact to commence with negotiations.
    If no, state so.
    If you come back with the same old bs and run around response, I will start to chastise, criticize, mock, and offend you on this forum and many others.
    In other words, I will call your bluff.
    As far as any others here accepting my challenge, let them post and tell me.
    When you and I settle our, I can talk to them about another bang um up.
    Maybe Libby is right your Pester, maybe not.
    At least Pester posted his contact info more than I can say for you Brooks
    Now, if your not kenpo j post me your contact so we can do this!
    I give you my word to not f around.
    Just a call so we can negotiate.
    Are you in or out?
    I’m waiting so don’t delay and play, just say….YES!

  949. It will never happen, Michael Brooks is a nut case who plays games. He feels he is somehow controlling people and is entitled, He is the classic narcissist/sociopath.

  950. Michael Brooks

    There’s something else to consider Steve. When I was at the Seaside Gym in Long Beach, I used to notice this beginning pro fighter that seemed to let people take head shots at him, just to get in his licks. Later I realized that he was the feeder for better fighters and also probably headed to being one of the punch drunk fighters often talked about, who talk loud and get mentally fixated and who were the ones who were taking punches to the head over the years. The sad part about all that, is they may have thought it more manly to stand there, get hit in the head and keep coming, instead of feinting or blocking. Also there’s a relatively rare type of tumor that may grow undetected in the brain of anyone and be the cause of more and more aggressive and unreasonable behavior. Last, I advise anyone who has had a career in any contact sports to see the movie ‘Concussion’ where it was fairly recently discovered that there can be brain bleed, and up until recently was undetected in some football players who became psychotic later in life, began hearing voices and who eventually committed suicide.

  951. Brooks,
    Your a piece of shit!
    All talk.
    Still begging me to post.
    Not willing to accept.
    Your going to be mentioned everywhere and not in a good way ya bum!
    I’m going to drop your name on gutter forums too.
    Your pussy, sissy, bum and kenpo klown!
    Go to hell mother fucker!
    Michael Brooks is a faggot, Brooks is a cock sucker!
    You got me so loaded off that if we were face to face I’d rip your tongue out of that worthless mouth of yours.
    Go to hell and don’t come back here to talk shit you fucking pussy.

    • Michael Brooks

      How many people have you challenged and then backed away?

      • None! I have had people back down from me, but I will not. And now I will do what I do best. Joshua Pestaner and Steve Shaffer can do all the idiotic videos they want, but I have a gold mine out there- it is Kenpo on the Internet via YouTube.
        I am doing one right now that shows how Kenpo violates its own principles, how inaccurate high ranking black belts are, how weak their strikes are, how stupid the strikes are as they guarantee damage to the hands and wrists, and how when they try to do Filipino martial arts they totally screw it up.
        Who are you cockroach! Coward!

      • https://youtu.be/xbqgmNIEyUI
        The above is a seminar by a 9th degree Kenpo black belt. It is laughable. Below is my commentary from the video. Watch it yourself at 0.25 speed and see how sloppy and inaccurate they are.
        My reply to this deplorable video!
        So let me get this right at about 4:50 – you are using a back knuckle to the abdomen- no to little effect. A reverse back knuckle to the back of the head and the hand is open- possible broken hand. And a palm up chop or hammer fist to the hip with the hand open and in no definite position- no effect and possible broken hand or damaged wrist. And you back knuckle as you step away to a twist stance so the back knuckle to the head has no power. And why would you chop or hammer fist somebody in the hip? It’s the biggest bone in the body. And if it is supposed to be a rib shot a palm up chop has no power. Hit a heavy bag and see how little effect it has. Use the back knuckle in tight to a heavy bag like your abdomen shot and see that it useless.
        And I do not care about marriage of gravity or all the Kenpo jargon. Physics are physics and these shots do not hurt. I have tested numerous Kenpo techniques and decades ago we concluded that they just do not hurt most of the time. This is about flash and presentation and has little to no value in the street.,
        Please watch it at 0.25 speed and observe how the hand positions are wrong as in some cases the palm up chop is a slap and the reverse back knuckle is being delivered with the hand open and off target
        As I have stated before a reasonably athletic kid with 1 to 1 1/2 years of boxing would clean you out in a fight.
        And if you want to post stuff people have the right to critique it.
        And please do not believe a word I say. Watch the video at 0.25 and see if I am right or wrong.?

    • Hey Billy, as a boxer I am sure you will appreciate this. Notice how when you slow them down all the flash just turns to shit! They cannot even use a proper fist. And these clowns are 5 degree black belts and higher. Can you imagine how little effect a back knuckle to the abdomen has from 3 inches? And notice how they strike the hip- a broken hand.

  952. Below are some examples of what people feel about what I am doing and it is all positive. And many blast Kenpo as fake and ineffective. But the last comment is from a Kenpo school who say my videos are spot on! So what fools like Michael Brooks, a cowardly instigator, Joshua Pestaner, Mike Bennett. Kevin Harshman, Greg {ayne, Mills Crenshaw, Steve Shaffer and others can piss off. I have currently have 44 subscribers and over 5,500 views. I am getting to people and analytically exposing what a fraud Kenpo is. I am using Kenpo videos to show people what not to do as it has so many errors and bad concepts! I showed the videos of high ranking people to some old school Muay Thai guys and they all started laughing. In Thai they said “Kow chok muay mooan derm katooey” which means they fight like a bunch of ladyboys.”
    Below are quotes of what people think of my videos and some have gotten in touch with me for help as their Kenpo school was a joke and wanted real training. I was glad I could help them!
    I think this is a great series of videos and much needed. I’ll be doing my own set on my gunslingerstactics channel.?
    Well done Robert?
    Hey…..don’t make fun of the fancy cover out, makes you look cool and give the crowd watching a chance to oooooh and ahhhh……..?
    Keep up the videos?
    I do nick cerio’s kenpo since almost 10 years, boxing for 4 years and bjj for more than a year and I must say that I totally agree with you on how bad american kenpo techniques are sometimes. I remember my first years in nick cerio’s kenpo and when I was looking at american kenpo techniques, I tought they were superior because they were faster, flashier and were hitting more strikes but now when I look at them I realise they make no sense. many of the slaps are just there to add to the strikes count and don’t really hurt. Also, I don’t like the kind of cha-cha dancing footwork they do to retreit after some of the techniques.?
    lol never heard of that but it’s funny! continue your good work I really like your videos?
    I agree with everything said here. Once you know what to look for the BS is easy to spot. There is so much wrong with these techniques. People don’t shoot straight punches? WTF? Has this guy ever been in a real fight? Has he ever even seen a real fight?? (on Greg Payne)
    Way too much common sense! I’m shocked that you don’t get death threats from the cults….I mean, “traditional martial arts” Just the talk about the “dead” training is worth its weight in gold and kills off about 90% of all martial arts. I also notice that I teach the same escape from the headlock.?
    Interesting. I would have never thought to bite. Makes total sense. But I think if the person is bitten, he would let go and push away.
    Would you be able to send me your email. I would like to have a side conversation with you if possible.?
    I hope you get better, sorry about what happen. This saturday there was a karate tournament, and i went to see it, full of kenpo people and other styles, walking around in there black belts like masters, very arrogant..they can’t even fight in reality.. that pontfighting is some stupid stuff.. little tag playing game. with the unrealistic way of the holding it up. the leg in the air tip tapping..i wanted to share..?
    awesome videos Sir you have a new sub
    Load down more videos I really enjoy them, reality is what your talking, I’m a blackbelt in kenpo, and the techniques are stupid and fake.. who ever doesn’t agree with this videos has never been in a real fight
    And the best for last:
    Kinetic Dragon Tutorials3 months ago
    Hello there. With all do respect and If I may say so. You are politically incorrect Sir but you are right on target. I say these as a compliment to your efforts on your Tutorials. Good day.?
    Even some Kenpo people are seeing the light!

  953. Michael Brooks

    Carlos Castaneda said:
    “Feeling important makes one heavy, clumsy and vain. To be a warrior one needs to be light and fluid… Self-importance is man’s greatest enemy. What weakens him is feeling offended by the deeds and misdeeds of his fellow men. Self-importance requires that one spend most of one’s life offended by something or someone… The average man is hooked to his fellow men, while the warrior is hooked only to infinity.”

  954. Here we go again with the bull shit and quotes.
    You are either stubborn, stupid, or have a hard time reading and understanding.
    You came back and ignored my request.
    What city do you live in?
    BTW you’ve just been put on a gay dating site and I linked it to this forum.
    Maybe interested guys will call Pester and try to get your contact info from him.
    You punked out, so you will learn a lesson the hard way.
    Hope you find your true lover through the site.
    Who knows maybe he’ll have an interest in kenpo too, and you and him can train together.

    • Billy Wack. You do realize there are Federal and State laws that prohibit the types of threats you are using. They will find who you are.

  955. Your a real cupcake Brooks.
    Go back to some of the nonsense you posted before you start jibberizing legalities.
    Bottom line your a fake, shit talking nobody.
    That’s the bottom line jerk off.
    Now, go practice your forms, steps, and flowering hammers crap.

  956. This is getting fun. Since we seem to be fond of throwing videos at each other I’ll return the volly with this.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZFVP8rlitfs
    In response to Libby’s “Bad Kenpo #14.

    Have a nice day!

    • Steve, I love how you spin everything- ALL IS KENPO! The body position Richard uses is different and there are so many fine points that you will never understand. Kenpo and JKD have as much in common as a lion and a duck! Kali uses hand swords all the time and so do I- that does not make it Kenpo!
      Just like when you said the 1-2 beat of Clutching Feathers was a “boxing move.” Just because they have somewhat similar movements or number of hits does not make them the same. Fighting is a game of finesse! And in soccer they kick a ball- that does not make it the NFL!
      Another pathetically weak attempt from a man who knows nothing about martial arts! Just because you hit somebody with say a right cross and knock them out does not magically make it Kenpo!
      And I noticed zero response from my Bad Kenpo Techniques 14! How come no commentary on that? The simple reason is in the video it shows what piss poor black belts Kenpo turns out, and you are living proof! And the stuff you did with Richard was stills from a magazine or book. You can spin that a lot of different ways.
      So do a critique of how bad Tim Bulot is and Frank Soto. The hand positions aren’t wrong” He didn’t hit the guy in the back of the head with a reverse “bitch slap” that could break the hand? He didn’t hit him in the hip? The back knuckle to the abdomen wasn’t a backhand slap to the belly? It’s right there in living color!
      You always use obfuscation and exhibit a complete lack of willingness to answer something directly, but that is what cult members do!

    • So Steve, just to make you look like a complete ass I will do a counter and show how Delayed Sword would be done with a Kali feel and concepts. Delayed Sword is 3 moves strung together and in many systems. But in Kale we use the hips and feet very differently, but you would not understand that as you have little to no real fight knowledge.
      Ad your video is typical of Kenpo- porno like sound track with some flash and no substance.
      As I have said before I showed some of this to some Thai old timers in Muay Thai ( I was working on this stuff in a restaurant and they came over as they saw it was fighting). Here we do krabi gabong which is like Filipino stick and knife or we do gabong sawng meuah which is double stick krabi sawng meuah which is double knife. They called you and Joshua “katooey” which means “ladyboys” as your fighting was such a joke! And you are a joke!

    • https://youtu.be/fgiMtAJPSrM
      My video response to Steve Shaffer. Steve, you do not know Kali or JKD and you do not even know Kenpo!

      • Wait, so you’re saying that no one should ever copy a screen shot, tell half truths, comment on a video that maybe show only 30 minutes of a 4 hour class because that would be SPIN. You’re middle name is SPIN.
        Dude! look in the mirror. Spin is all you do.
        You want an honest critique of Hartsell? I’ll give you a few. 1. Very knowledgable, top drawer guy in every way 100% respect, Saddened that he’s no longer us, may he Rest in Peace. 2. His partner was cooperating in all things asked of him to do because Larry was TEACHING! (Ideal phase by the way). 3. The side choke has many things going on? Pinching off the carotid arteries is not that tough. So JKD can get complicated? Hmmm. Seems JKD has abandoned the idea of simplicity, essence of fighting and all that. 4. A Background on one JKD video showed colored Belts or something on the wall There’s a system in place to grade knowledge in JKD. Kenpo has colored belts gee that’s weird, JKD has a grading system too. Must be a cult. Run!
        Bustillo video–Very calm, friendly instructions; the context was again teaching. Everything done logically and all worked. No one got hurt. (Ideal phase of training again)
        Football is not soccer agreed. However several soccer players have crossed over as place kickers and found new careers kicking a football thru the goal posts using the same PRINCIPLES they learned playing soccer.
        Hey what’s wrong with my music choice? You don’t like jazz fusion? What kind of human are you???

  957. Steve, you do not have a leg to stand on. I have not used any spin. I show basic fighting concepts and errors that are right on the videos. Sorry that your little cult is a load of crap!
    You, Joshua Pestaner, Mike Bennett, and Kevin Harshman know nothing about a fight.
    The video I critiqued has people that are 5th dan black belts to 9th dan and cannot even use a strike properly. Are you blind or just stupid? Oh, wait, you are brainwashed.
    And you are gutless because if we met and I filmed the challenge you would have looked like the inept fool you are! Learn to keep your mouth shut when the adults are talking! You have nothing to offer and are not in any way a martial artist!

  958. Libby, you have been defeated time and time again. But you lack the ability to be humble about any of it. Whether it be me, someone of equal age, older or been more well rounded than you: it doesn’t matter, you just want to be right.

    Yes Libby, you twist many many things. You take miniature clips of people’s demos, speech and written word and re-communicate them inaccurately.

    You are extremely childish in your remarks back by usually only being able to call people boneheaded names. I dare you to NOT call me names in your reply to this. Explain the footwork of JKD that that makes it so different instead. Explain why you think JKD and Kenpo so not similar in concepts that even resemble each other.

    You have already gone into way too many times why you don’t like certain strikes that some Kenpoists do because “they don’t even hurt.” Try to ask why they like to do these or the purpose of it instead. Insulting for no reason shows little intelligence on your part.

    You don’t have to agree with everything, but have an intelligent conversation.

  959. Libby,

    Thank you for letting everyone know what your Thai/Kali friends think of our clips.

    Would you like to know what martial artists and non martial artists have said about your vids when they see them?

    “Zzzzz…” This means they fell asleep.
    “Is this all this guy does? Talk?”
    “This guy is really fat, where’s the martial arts guy you wanted me to see?”
    “This guy knows he’s way outta shape and can hardly lift his leg right?”
    “Josh, I’m tired of watching this bull shit, I got work to do.”
    “This guy would get his ass whooped.”
    “This guy talks like he has a stick up his ass.”
    “sorry, I couldn’t watch that shit. A recording of the laptop was too much.”
    “This guy is demonstrating on a kid 1/5 his size. He couldn’t have picked someone at least 100lbs.”
    “Josh, I must have the wrong clip, cuz this overweight white guy sucked.”

    There you go. Hope this helps in your future “Fight Tip” vids.

  960. Libby,
    By the way, I laughed so hard with the “porno music” comment you made. Is that what Thai porn sounds like? Hahahahaha!!!!!!

  961. Joshua, by your own admission you are a liar! My videos and critiques are very honest and accurate. I notice that you and Steve never face anything I say directly. You are both clowns! Now piss off! And maybe fight Irish Billy Mack you coward and punk!
    But according to you he is a 60 year old Jewish guy that only shared that info with you! Another scam by a punk!
    You are a gutless coward and fool!
    So you will not fight Billy, Steve would not accept my challenge, Ed Parker chickened out, Ron Wilstein chickened out, and Ed Parker dodged the Milo Savage fight! It seems cowardice is a Kenpo trait! And so is lying!

  962. Actually Joshua I get a lot of positive responses. Many people like my videos. I have 45 subscribers and 5,653 hits.
    How about when I come to America you and me straight up? I will beat your punk ass in to next year! You are coward!

  963. Also, you have 5 year old videos that have twice my hits in 1 year. Seems mine are far more popular! I guess people do not like gutless wanna be cowards!

  964. Anytime and any place! You are a coward and fool! Or will you back down and make up people like with Irish Billy Mack?
    Prove me wrong analytically dummy! I expend more energy in one video than you do in a month of IKCA bullshit.’Why don’t you go peddle some DVDs junior!

  965. 2,421, 4,457, 1,439 Your numbers in 5 1/2 years
    45 subscribers 5,653 views My numbers in 14 months. It seems people are far more interested in my videos! I guess that is because I know what I am doing and you are a clown!

  966. Oh my… That’s just the PUMA Kenpo YouTube channel. You need to check out the MartialPayne YouTube channel…. I guess my dick is bigger than yours big guy, hahahahaha.

    Don’t worry, you might catch up to me one day ????

  967. Joshua, I have a treasure trove- I have Kenpo videos galore showing what clowns all of you are! I have video evidence of what a disaster Kenpo is. You are in the wrong fight with the wrong dog little punk!

  968. OK, let’s put some stuff to rest.

    1. In order to be a liar you have to lie. I did not lie about anything. When I changed SN everyone understood it was still me. I still received emails and calls about posts I was making. It is true I did not announce it, but I didn’t know there was a responsibility to do so and it wasn’t even necessary. I switched because someone advised I stop using my legal name on the thread. Made sense, so I did. You have been the only one to make a big fuss about it even though you say you knew it was me all along. I didn’t lie when you asked who I was. However, it was annoying you even asked because it was very obvious. So stop the childish name calling. It shows a major lack in maturity.

    Why have you not asked for the Irish Billy to show proof of his existence? Looks pretty suspect. I’ve “talked to him” on the phone and it’s genuinely suspect. It’s an old man that enjoys prank calls.

    Mr. Brooks is a real person as I have actually received emails and calls from him. But it’s ultimately his choice to reveal more things about himself on this thread. I really see no reason he should as others have not done the same with no problem.

    *So he has to reveal more than some nut talking stupid non stop? No. Irish kid has a lot of things to post beforehand. All the talk is not necessary*

    Libby, all your talk about Payne is unfactual. To say he has no experience and knows nothing is a LIE. You are a liar…(Do you get off to calling people names and liars?) Biggest problem is your lying to yourself.

    I don’t get off to calling you a liar and I don’t even really care for the stuff you post on the thread. I have a life. I’m ACTIVELY teaching, I have life experiences, I’m helping others and the training has helped others get out of sticky situations. I’m satisfied and know without a doubt I’m helping others and not setting people up for early headstones. However, that does not mean I close the doors to learning more. I actively am learning more Jujitsu from my Jujitsu Instructor and practicing new concepts in other aspects I learn else where. It’s fun.

    Libby, you post things of others performing their practice and jump on them. Yet you are hyper sensitive if someone does the same of Paul Vunak. You make excuses and say it’s film and things don’t come out the same…. No shit Sherlock. YOU HAVE NO ROOM TO SAY ANYTHING NEGATIVE. You’re idols can’t perform at the level you say everyone should and nor can YOU.

    Everyone has something to offer. Is it for everyone? Absolutely not. Everyone is different and should be. Move on.

    You say you have never backed down from a challenge. You have with myself and Payne. You framed it as your wife has told you that you are too good, nothing to prove and we are paper tigers… That’s backing out. No different than what you say Parker did. HOWEVER, I commend you for it and don’t bash you. Men should be wise and listen to the council of our wife. Men can make very stupid and emotional decisions.

  969. All your videos are 5 to 6 years old!

  970. Libby,

    You are a trip. 1 second you so happy you thought you had more views than me. Now upset that you were wrong. You too old to be an ATTENTION WHORE.

    I never check to see how many views or subscribers I have. I have many other important things to do. And I am plenty confident . However, when I first started all my film editing and posting to YouTube, I like you was checking the ticker all the time. BUT I’m wayyy past that now.

    I have lots of content(Kenpo and non Kenpo) that I DO NOT POST. I keep things for myself. Got lots of great stuff.

  971. Joshua, you used two screen names- that is lying!
    You are a manipulative little prick! You are a liar! And you are a coward.
    To the basics-tell me analytically where I am wrong in Bad Kenpo Techniques 14- you cannot do it as I am right.
    And you are a punk!
    9th degree Kenpo black belts that cannot do a technique- pathetic!

  972. I’m an old Jew who likes to prank…????
    Are you out of your mind kenpoo j?
    As for your real friend Michael Brooks, he a kenpoo talker who likes to ignore butt whoopings.
    Robert Libby they are scared of you as they are of the Jewish prankster…me.
    Not for nothing, but I say that you would do a number on any of these guys and that includes the instructor Payne.
    This will go on for a longtime and the only remedy is some ass kicking.
    But not one wants to bang with an old Jewish prankster.

  973. Review of Libby’s Bad Kenpo 14

    1. The stick fighters are not that good. It’s a Doce Pares style(I’ve just seen much better) single and double stick. Nothing special in the technique.
    Why is that? They have very little flow(they have too much stoppage in momentum. A lot of hesitation.) Most strikes were singular. Guys waving sticks as hard as they can isn’t a big deal. And yes, the sport they are playing is pretty dumb.
    2. Never use a twist stance is an opinion and something you (Libby) wouldn’t use. I’ve used twist stances in fights. But there’s a time and place for it. Contact the instructor and ask why he uses the stance or his reasoning for wanting to use it.
    3. Slapping with the back side of hand can be called finger whips. No, you don’t break hands. The more you talk about breaking hands the less people believe you are a decent fighter or were. You believe you will break your hand with anything you touch. What kind of boxer were you?
    4. Hitting to the hip will not ALWAYS break a hand. And certainly not if it is above the hip bone. I don’t particularly like these choices of strikes, but that’s just me. Sometimes hits don’t have to hurt. They just need to be the stimulus to make the reactions you want to happen to open up more devastating combinations or even singular blows.
    5. Hubud drills. I’ve seen Wing Chun and JKD not look great with these drills. Again another type of movement I don’t really like. But that’s just me. PLEASE demo how it should look since you are an “expert.”
    You make sad excuses you don’t have to display things because you can just rag on others. Sounds like some BS. Talk talk talk and you have the audacity to say that about others?!
    6. A student is supposed to be open to learning not criticizing others who are trying to teach something. A good student listens carefully and makes adjustments so he can critically think about a topic and make the knowledge or skill attainable.

    Conclusions: This was a horrible waste of my time this evening. I lost more than 45 minutes of my life on this crap. What did I learn? NOTHING. Many of your vids are unfortunately a waste of time. You saying this and that is stupid is NOT SUBSTANCE. It’s opinions only. No facts and nothing being shown.

    Get your dear Garfield and continue demoing on a kid 1/5 your size. It would be much better to see you teach him and him beat you up. Let’s see what you theorize would work and see him do on someone much bigger. Vids of you messing with kids is mega lame.

    • On June 7, 2003, he and Ward had a rubber match. Gatti broke his twice-repaired right hand on an uppercut to the hip in the fourth,
      Arturo Gatti broke his hand on Irish Micky Ward’s hip in the fourth round.
      Why must you always prove how dumb you are?

    • This is a quote from Sugar Ray Leonard, and we know he was a weakling!
      . Wrap your tools carefully
      “If you punch as hard as a professional boxer, it takes 45 minutes to strap your hands up before you can hit anything. Most people can just pop on a glove and hammer a punch bag. If I did that, I’d break every bone in my hand, and that’d be a bit of a problem. At a fight I’m so in the zone that my trainer, Rob McCracken, tapes my hands, but at the gym I do it myself, no matter how long it takes.”
      Here’s the link:
      http://www.telegraph.co.uk/men/active/11149277/Carl-Froch-10-things-no...

  974. You do not finger whip the back of the skull! You do not hit the hip. You do not finger whip the abdomen. It is that simple.
    Where were you and PUMA when I announced a challenge? Hiding in the closet? You are a coward and a liar! And I am getting more and more hits on my videos. So now I will be showing how Kenpo through the years has been a joke!

  975. How about when I come to America I demo on you? Let’s see what you’ve got junior!

  976. Ay, so quick to call people names… Again. That appears to be the only thing you can do with your time.

    Why do you keep referring to boxing matches when the topic is the street. “Wrap your hands for 45 minutes”? Dude! You can’t wrap for the street! Its not a boxing match! You’re not going for 4+rds of pure punching! You don’t know what you’re talking about anymore.

    You can finger whip anywhere. There’s no guideline for it or rule book. Start doing it. Let’s see if you break all your fingers and hands. You are very fragile but I think this is safe for even you. And of course modify so it forms to you.

    Keep making your vids. Sorry, I won’t be wasting anymore of my time on them. You show nothing. All talk, a complete bore, and extremely poor vid quality and care in your development. Its extremely amateur. Knock yourself out 😉

    • Yes, this from a petulant child who thinks one would use a reverse “finger whip” to the back of somebody’s skull!
      Yes Joshua, you are so knowledgeable of a martial artist.
      And I love when you run- now Irish Billy Mack has called you out and so have I so run like a coward- how very Kenpo!

  977. I can’t believe it, but I am going to agree with Pester/Kenpo J on this recent post.
    NO wraps for the alley/street is correct.
    Personally, I have very rarely wrapped my hands.
    Many fighters I know who were forced to clock somebody in a street fight and were not ready for bone on bone impact.
    Pester, if only you could see eye to eye on other things maybe we could have avoided the challenges.
    I am retiring from the forum.
    It looks like you and the rest of the Kenpoers will continue Robert Libby put downs without me here because the BS won’t stop until there’s a physical stop to it.
    But, like I said previously Libby is no one to mess with, knows his stuff, and if I needed to adapt my boxing to real gutter combat I would listen to him before anyone else here.
    The “Jewish prankster” I mean, Billy Mack is done with the Kenpo arguments.
    Signed: Billy “Irish Billy” Mack…A REAL IRISH BANGER!

    • Dear Irish Billy Mack,
      I am also checking out of here. Logic for the most part does not exist here. When I read of people thinking that you “finger whipping” the back of the head it is time to say “Adios.”
      I will continue doing videos and let Kenpo do what it does best- fool people with bad techniques, a lack of standards, give away black belts, sub par teachers, and sub par students.
      Good luck to you in all your endeavors and thank you so much for the support!
      And just for the Hell of it I am a Jewish guy in his 60s! The original family name is Libitsky and I was adopted by Ukrainian Jews who moved to America around 1918 due to the Russian Revolution. My mom and dad met in the 1930s.
      God luck to you sir!

  978. Michael Brooks

    Bob, Bob, Bob. First, you also go by another name, Bobbo Morgan, on your videos, and blog posts on other sites, which are here in the United States. It appears you live in Elk River, Minnesota and go between your son’s home in Wyoming, but it would be an easy drive to Maryland to leave a fake number to back up a fake Billy Quack ,who challenged Joshua and who continuously went on about how tough he was after winning two amateur fights, but doesn’t post any pictures, email addresses, phone numbers or addresses, but challenges everyone to a fight here while using his Mother’s trash talk. Every kingdom has a king, and every kingdom has jokers.
    If you actually are stalking and doing these things, and there is evidence of calls to the Maryland gym, or recent driving or flight records, you might be getting into the area of interstate stalking.
    You’re evidently pre-diabetic, or already diabetic; looking at your swollen calves and ankles, sitting on the couch, in your videos or standing up. When is the last time you exercised? Do you have some type of heart condition that might make your particular approach to martial arts legitimate? Had you approached this forum with some legitimate teaching skills, I probably would have continued to look at your videos after the first one.
    You said you were going to post some pictures of you in Thailand, and you talk about going out and showing pictures of other martial arts for critique, but you never show those guys. There happens to be a martial arts school in Elk River which teaches Muay Thai, extreme MMA, etc. and mentions Mr. Nelson, which you also did, while saying you are in Thailand. Coincidence? And you’ve never posted an address, but keep threatening to come to the United States and teach everyone ‘a lesson’. You’re here Bob. Step out of the closet there if you’re in Elk River.
    When I first noticed this website, I noticed this rather low class article scripted by Al Case, on his rather fantastic site. Had he approached the critique of Kenpo, or other marital arts, with any degree of class, I would have gladly added this site to one to visit often as well as to buy things from. However, upon reflection of this ‘dirty’ style, it’s like stepping in something unpleasant in a beautiful yard. I may go back to the yard, but never there again, or to this site. I guess every kingdom must have a joker or even many.
    Kenpo is a martial art self- defense system that is predicated on techniques that roll right into the next one. In any real situation, in MHO, an artist would probably be into the 4th or 5th technique, before they stopped to evaluate what to do next. As to the slaps or backhands, they create diversion as well as mini strikes, which allows the Kenpo stylist to get to another position. It’s not solely about completion with another. Probably very few practioner’s have the time to do all the 130 + techniques each day. That’s the beauty of Kenpo, the self- satisfaction of your own efforts.

  979. Michael Brooks,
    Who the fuck are you to bring me up in your argument with Libby?
    I was just told that you PUSSY were back here TALKING SHIT.
    Listen MOTHER FUCKER…post a number or email so that we can start discussing how and where.
    I was through with you kenpo dick suckers but you PUNK brought me back in by your statements.
    My mothers trash talk?
    Your mother was/is a CRACK WHORE!
    The only pathetic person here is YOU JERK OFF.
    IF you don’t post someway for me to get in touch, I will just start calling Pester and get it from him.
    Now, if you don’t want me burning up your kenpo buddies phone line, POST SOME CONTACT INFO.
    We will discuss and negotiate as professional as you want, just let me get in touch.
    You are about to find out how skilled Billy Quack the two fight amateur is.
    Now go get crack whore mommy’s permission to fight a novice boxer PUNK!

  980. Hey Brooks,
    What’s the holdup?
    I need your contact information by May 3rd that’s your deadline big mouth.
    If you fail to meet it punk I will be calling your kenpo brother J since he has it.
    Don’t be a stiff and throw him under the bus.
    We are about to find out if your as bad ass as you think.
    If you would have kept my name and your worthless comments out of your last post with Libby I would not be back here wasting my time.
    Let’s hope that your not Joshua P posting under another alias.
    So, Mr. Big and bad Michael Brooks your call.
    Post or be a pussy or get your bud kenpo j to take my calls.
    Punk ass Brooks!

  981. Banqui Parker-Lumumba

    Just some Accurate information to clear up some things I have read here. I am 4th Generation Go Shin Jitsu Kenpo / Chinese Kempo. My Instructor ‘Otto Schmid’ studied under both Wm. Chow and Bill Chun Jr.
    I am International Tournament Representative for the ‘Chow-Chun’ System. A title given to me by Wm. Chow’s Successor ‘Bill Chun Jr.’
    Ed Parker ‘DID NOT’ receive a Black Belt from GGM Chow; He was given his Black Belt by Sijo Emperado, who told me this out of his own Mouth. The Reason GGM Chow refused to give Ed Parker a Black Belt is Clan Business.
    I am 2nd Dan in Go Shin Jitsu Kenpo /Chinese Kempo. I am Master of the LION Pride-3Animal Snakefist. My system is the ONLY extension of Go Shin Jitsu authorized by Master Bill Chun Jr.
    Sam Kuoha was give the Karo Ho side of of Kempo by GGM Chow, however, Bill Chun Jr. is His Successor

    • Steve Shaffer

      Dear Mr. Lubumba
      Professor Chows’ Black Belt certificate with Ed Parker’s name on it is published in Lelani Parkers’s book (1997) ‘Memories of Ed Parker’, pg. 26 dated June 5th, 1953…And it’s signed by Prof Chow.

      Facts are stubborn things huh?

  982. Punk Michael Brooks,
    The clock is ticking bud.
    In three hours midnight and your May 3rd deadline.
    Maybe some of the kenpo friends and masters here like Shaffer will encourage you to back up your beloved kenpo art and post contact information so I don’t have to call your tag team partner Joshua.
    Your big mouth had 0 business mentioning me in your recent debate with Libby.
    Let’s see if your all talk chump.
    After all, I’m just little old Irish Billy Quack right?
    A novice two fight boxer right?
    Post your contact info me and you need to….SET THIS UP.
    Now, LET’S DO THIS!!!!

  983. You punk ass bitch Brooks!
    I knew you were all talk.

  984. Talker Brooks,
    What happened?
    No more disrespectful commentary to make about me?
    Good!
    Leave me alone and out of your arguments with people here and this should be the last time I waste on this forum.

  985. OMG!
    I just got back from a long vaca and decided to check up on things.
    It certainly looks like things wound up going to the bottom of the barrel.
    Really thought things would be worked out, but they got pretty bad.
    Sorry to read that everybody just ganged up on Robert.
    That’s not right guys.
    Anyway, to those here wish your mom’s wives a happy mothers day.

  986. Kiko Sandoval

    I fight anyone here.
    I read all you comment and it all bullshuit.
    Just talking back and forth for many times and nobody fight.
    My telefone is 973-225-0273.
    If I no there leave mess with Christian my cousin and set time to call me I be there waiting.
    Mano a punjos I fight any of you anytine.

  987. Michael Brooks

    Bob, Bob my acupuncturist saw your videos and she determined that you are not as healthy as you should be.
    This might be due to injuries or weight.
    Nutri System is an excellent, home delivered food program that might help you.
    Then, you could post better videos.

    • Michael Brooks

      Mr. Libby, I did not post the post above, that has my name. I stepped out permanently because of the lack of professionalism due to the arts and the quacks this site was attracting.

  988. Michael Brooks

    Bob, Bob, Bob my nose has grown 3 inches.
    I lied, it was me.
    I had stepped away because I needed to reevaluate my reason for coming here.
    My conclusion was that I needed to establish my reputation and admiration for Senior Grand Master Parker and our beloved art of Kenpo.
    While the lack of respect from the quacks posting here was steering me away, our on going dialogue kept me coming back.
    Also, a true and credible young Kenpoist Joshua whom I consider a brother renewed my faith that that the real Martial Artists here out number the Billy Quacks who brag and rant but post nothing of value.
    For better or worse, at least you don’t hide behind a keyboard like “Irish Billy”.

  989. PUNK BROOKS,
    Why are you such a pussy?
    You post shit then deny it’s you….GIVE ME A BREAK!!!!
    Then, like the panties wearing slime you are you address Robert as Mr. Libby after using less respectful names in the past?
    What a cunt you are Michael “IS A PUNK” Brooks!!!!
    I’m still available rectum mouth.
    Post your contact info CUNT!!!!!!

  990. I guess both of you punks Brooks and Pester have finally learned to keep your trap shut and don’t talk smack if your not serious about backing it up.
    I’m glad to read that especially you punk ass Brooks have pussyed out.
    Only paper tigers and trash talkers gang up on people like you did with me and Libby.
    Not to disrespect Libby, I care most about me and wise ass kenpo punks or anyone else ain’t gonna talk doo doo and not have to face the beautiful Irish music that Billy Mack brings.
    Lesson learned Mike Brooks, when the heat was turned up you went running all quiet, now keep it that way.

  991. ROBERT LIBBY,
    What is ur take on the total silence from you know who’s?
    Any street boxing video coming soon?
    I did wish to get your input on heavy bag workouts.
    If only doing bag once weekly you think 30 minutes in 10-3 minute rounds with 30-45 second breaks is good maintaining type work?

  992. Okay, you I will respond to. They will not respond as they will be exposed for the frauds they are, and how slimy they are. I do believe Michael Brooks is Joshua Pestaner. He cannot win in an analysis as he knows nothing and is a paper tiger. He has shown his cowardice before so it is nothing new.
    Okay- are you training for the ring or street? Also, you should do several rounds of pure power shots, and I mean really tearing into the bag. Not a lot of fancy shit, but just hitting as hard as you can. And you should have people trying to take you down to learn how to sprawl and stay on your feet- watch Chuck Liddel fights as he has good takedown defense.
    I am doing a new video this weekend and it is on blocking and why karate blocking sucks, and how to generate power.
    A thing I teach is get wrestling, boxing, and football rule books and learn all the shit that is illegal. I like to step on feet and knock them down and I also bite. I will be showing a couple of dirty wrestling moves as well.

  993. Robert Libby,
    Thanks for posting and input.
    For the ring.
    Just need to confirm that the 10 rounds once a week is enough.
    Here is the workout I plan to do up to my last competition.
    Bag once weekly 10-3 minute rounds
    Spar once weekly 10-3 minute rounds
    Cardio once weekly 3 miles followed by sprints and steps total time 30 minutes.
    In between days: Weights once weekly heavy 5×5 full body
    Stretching one day 45 minutes.
    Two full rest days.
    Due to work and school this is the best way for me to squeeze in training.
    After my meet I will study your videos and practice your street stuff with my maintenance boxing a few days per week.
    This Brooks character is a real sleeze bag.
    See what he posted? As if to refer it to me.
    Now no doubting that the sleeze is Pester playing with an alias.
    When I last called him to TELL him to keep my name out of his comments here and give me Brooks contact info we engaged in a brutal, severe verbal brawl.
    He forced me to set him in line.
    And I told him what a piece of garbage him and Brooks were for ganging up on you, he hung up after threatening me legally.
    This character has 0 respect and if you study his body and facial languages on his kenpo videos with that Steve guy you can see he is cocky arrogant.
    He can’t box worth a lick that’s for sure.

  994. WOW! 1 time per week is really a problem for training. You lose the ability to read punches and muscle memory. I understand the daily things we must do but I wish you had more time to train. Could you maybe do 2 weekend days of sparring and use week days as rest days after work?
    Good luck to you!
    Yes, I am sure it was Pestaner due to the style. He never answered questions directly and one time did some Brazilian Jiu Jitsu to show how Kenpo could work or some such shit. He is a loon!

  995. I guess I could squeeze in weekend sparring occasionally.
    My 10-3’s on the bag are pretty intense.
    I don’t rest during the minute.
    What I do is jump rope to tax my wind and force me to punch the bag while winded.
    Works like a charm.
    And I go all out on the bag while maintaining proper punching, but every punch and jab is full power no pacing.
    My timing might be off if sparring lacking, but never had issues taking shots.
    A few guys in my gym fought with 0 sparring and did pretty good by using my heavy bag workout some doing 15-20 rounds once a week.
    thanks for helping me out.

  996. Then maybe that is your strategy- he is the heavy bag and do that 30 minutes on him. No let up for the first 5 rounds and knock him out. And I am sure you know that the bag does not fight back so you will drain energy much faster.
    Good luck to you!

  997. Dear Billy, I have been pondering your fight. I have a suggestion. As opposed to running on flats only do hills. And run some of it backwards. Nothing will build in your forward and backwards motion and give such power when you move. Also do an Ali “rope a dope” if you get a little winded.
    Good luck to you!

  998. I am a respected, legitimate fight promoter with licenses in New York and New Jersey.
    If possible, I would like the managers and/or advisors for Joshua Pestener, Michael Brooks, and William Mack to call my New York office/dojo at their earliest possible convenience.
    My interest is to promote and sanction a full contact match up, round robin style between all three of these individuals.
    Everyone wins as 1st place gets $10,000
    2nd place gets $5,000
    3rd place gets $1,500
    Lodging and expenses would also be covered as part of the contract.
    This would be an “added attraction” as part of a kickboxing event I plan on holding at the Barclays in Brooklyn, NY.
    Rules would have to be agreed upon, but more than likely it would be kickboxing American style as the NY Commission will not license kickboxing matches with elbows, knees, or leg kicking if it is part of a challenge type contest.
    After being advised of the arguments and debates here among these gentlemen as a professional promoter I saw an opportunity to set up an event that would also generate spectators from Martial Arts and the many supporters of Kenpo Karate and it’s ambassador the late Ed Parker.
    I would also be interested in flying in Mr. Robert Libby as a guest referee to the round robin “grudge matches”.
    I can be reached at 718-372-9089.

  999. I am a respected, legitimate fight promoter with licenses in New York and New Jersey, and a long history of fight promotion in kickboxing as well as MMA.
    If possible, I would like the managers and/or advisors for Joshua Pestener, Michael Brooks, and William Mack to call my New York office/dojo at their earliest possible convenience.
    My interest is to promote and sanction a full contact match up, round robin style between all three of these individuals.
    Everyone wins as 1st place gets $10,000
    2nd place gets $5,000
    3rd place gets $1,500
    Lodging and expenses would also be covered as part of the contract.
    This would be an “added attraction” as part of a kickboxing event I plan on holding in Brooklyn, NY.
    Rules would have to be agreed upon, but more than likely it would be kickboxing American style as the NY Commission will not license kickboxing matches with elbows, knees, or leg kicking if it is part of a challenge type contest.
    After being advised of the arguments and debates here among these gentlemen as a professional promoter I saw an opportunity to set up an event that would also generate spectators from Martial Arts and the many supporters of Kenpo Karate and it’s ambassador the late Ed Parker.
    I would also be interested in flying in Mr. Robert Libby as a guest referee to the round robin “grudge matches”.
    I can be reached at 718-372-9089.
    Here is a lucrative opportunity to settle your grievances, get National exposure, and do it under a legitimate, professional setting.

  1000. Attention Promoter Lou,
    I’m interested in doing this.
    Since there is money involved I will have to give up my last GG bout.
    I might have to learn kicks, but don’t think I’ll need to use them.
    If this is on the real, call me.
    The number you listed when to a NY number with a 516 area code so I left my name and callback number on the voice mail.
    All I need is for the other two to agree and to get the exact date of this event.
    Look forward to hearing from you.

  1001. This is Robert Libby and I am definitely in! I can be phoned at 001-66-818816438. We are about 11 hours ahead of New York time.
    Thank you.

  1002. Does Robert Libby have ANY credentials in anything? He seems to get winded at the slightest movement, and therefore shouldn’t be talking about actually competent, healthy martial artists.

  1003. Now some jerk off posting as lobert ribby?
    I guarantee it is either peste or his girlfriend Brooks.
    Why don’t you stop harassing and picking on Libby and call the promoter?
    Both of you are nothing more than loud mouth punks.
    Hey pest I’m calling you this week so that we can agree in principle to the fight.
    Then pass on details to your bully buddy Brooks.
    I’m gonna wreck both of you and hopefully there will be enough media to humiliate of you into retirement.
    I’m in it are you two parasites ready?
    There is no excuse now buds.
    $$$$ to be made.
    Don’t deny me of my 10 G’ S.

  1004. I am Lobert Ribby. I am a tubby chubby. I am a cuddle bunny. I couldn’t hold a candle to Ed Parker. He actually beat me up after I challenged him, and the kenpo ax dropped on my greasy scrawny little neck and I’ve been bitter about it for 40+ years. Pass the pork rhinds.

  1005. Hey Lovett Ribby,
    What’s your real name?
    Why don’t you contact the promoter and we can have a four way grudge?
    How’s this.
    I seen video of Ed Parker and I with my current skill vs. his at his best I would I leveled him.
    I’d be throwing so many punches so fat and hard that the one’s that landed on his fat gut and untested jawline would have dropped him like two tons of fun.
    Stop using this guy Robert Libby has your target Ribby, Pest, Brooks.
    Now loud mouth paper tiger hot air trash talking BUMS call the promoter and come get me.

  1006. I like cats. Do you like cats. I like Garfield. There is no footage of me actually doing real martial arts because I’d wheeze and fall over on the mat dead as a doornail, even back in the day when I only obtained a yellow belt.

  1007. Robert Libby’s kenpo hands were clocked at .0003 MPH on Garfield, while mine were 67.34 MPH, and that is on a heavy bag! Just watch RL’s videos in the slowest motion, which incidentally is their natural speed, and you’ll see my point.

  1008. Ed Parker Jr the XVIIIC

    Even my Paxtial arts (Google it) can throw Blobert Libby all over the mat, and that is kenpo, jiujitsu, karate, kickboxing, arm wrestling, thumbwars, and tiddlywinks.

  1009. Tarry Latum, Ed Parker JR XVIIIC, and Lobert Ribby…I mean Joshua Pest.
    Fuck each one of you up the ass!
    Call Lou the promoter and get on board faggots!
    Bring your A Game Queers of Kenpo including the Pain ICKA variety.
    Any of you pricks but your skills on the line, there offering $$$$ jerk offs.
    BTW Peste, oh Peste I’m a callin soon.
    Oue Vasa Anigo?

  1010. I called Lou. Lou said to tell you all that you smell, and Blobert Fibbery can’t fight his way out of a Chinese take-out box, and that Garfield is the true black belt master.

  1011. Robert Libby,
    Not one of these paper tiger loud mouths called the promoter.
    And as you can see here neither pest or Brooke have posted a response.
    You’ve been right all along and your also right about pest/kenpo j being brooke.
    This guy will never accept because he won’t last and would be humiliated by a novice boxer.
    Keep posting your instructions on street defense and stuff that a boxer can use too.
    I’m pissed that 10 grand that I could use for my wedding is going into t toilet because this talker won’t post acceptance.
    I have developed a dislike toward kenpo karate and a hatered toward the ikca punk pesternerd.

  1012. It is a shame to see what the system turned into. I have had contacts from people that say the Ed Parker Kenpo Karate teachers and his followers have insane egos. They really seem to think it is an eclectic and savvy street system when it is a joke.
    None of their people will respond to my video commentaries on them or debate what I teach, but they is because they cannot. But they will tel me I am wrong and submit zero proof as to why in video form. I feel the viewing at 0.25 speed is destroying all their credibility and exposing how bad the system is and its practitioners. I’d love to see you get 10Gs!

  1013. “”Irish Billy” is a CREEP. You call from unmarked numbers and use a computer or recording of male and female voices reciting some stuff. I think you’re actually locked in some kind of psych ward. You got issues . There is nothing to take you seriously. Nothing. Let’s pretend for a moment there is a promotion that wants to hold these matches (which is freaking rediculous.) I’ve never said I wanted to do a boxing match. We have established there is a huge difference between street and a sanctioned fight. I have zero interest in a boxing exhibition.
    I have a life. I know that maybe hard to understand. I actually work, have a family, a wife, and have sex as a regular part of my life as well. You guys are the only paper tigers. Tigers are focused, devastating, well hidden, crafty, and have their own agenda. Guys get a life. Billy Bob, do something with your life. If you have a girlfriend, stop being a creep or you will be stuck with just your hands.

  1014. blobbo can barely get through rambling and slow-motion demoing a technique to a very nonresisting untrained opponent in his living room without wheezing. Must be why American kenpo is worldwide and blobbo is wheezing unheard of in his living room telling fishing tales. blobert fibbery, let’s see actual video of you moving quicker, more realistic, with some actual resistance to make your points. Until then, you’re a total fother mucking trolling pink belt buffoon!

  1015. Your NEXT video, your VERY NEXT video, MOVE FAST, hit a heavy bag, have a RESISTING opponent. Cmon blobbo show us what a man you are with your impressive street fighting fishing tales from grandpa. In your VERY NEXT video, unless you are a total bs artist playing internet guru…

  1016. Robert Libby,
    I’ll address a few things for you to read and decifer if I’m speaking truth because unlike kenpo j now posting as bobert fibbery I don’t bs.
    Kenpo j is a lying jerk!
    I have had two conversations with this character.
    The first caught him by surprise when I called so he was laughing while telling me to post a video.
    The second convo was when his boyfriend in crime Brooks bad mouthed me and I called j to get a number, email someway for me to call that jerk, punk, bitch.
    Kenpo j thought he could intimidate me by getting all loud and telling me he wasn’t going to give me anything on Brooks.
    I told him to pass on my message to keep me out of all these arguments and that if as you suspected he was Brooks to, keep me out of his verbal bs.
    He started to get real loud and all defensive so without mincing words I told him to shut the fuck up Or I would tear off his tongue.
    I said tabloid enough that the neighbors across the street could hear me.
    Yes, my phone came up blocked.
    I don’t have long distance so I used a calling card and it was one that registers the call as private or out of the area.
    I left this liar one other message and left a number where he could reach me most days between 6-8 PM.
    Not my problem if he never called me there or choose to ignore that message.
    If kenpo j was serious he would have called.
    Instead he post his lies here and then post as Britons and now I think as fibbery just to bust your balls.
    He has been given a chance to put up and make $ win, lose, draw.
    Instead, he makes excuses about not being a boxer.
    Can he throw a punch?
    Does he know how to move around?
    Does he have enough cardio to TRY?
    And, he would have time to train for it, but he found his way out.
    I don’t understand why he has chosen to start a disrespectful beef with you.
    Anyone can see that you know your stuff and if your older and mother nature has eroded your physical skills, so what.
    You can still train people.
    His beef reminds me of one between Jesse a cruiserweight and his trainer Chris.
    Once the shit started Jesse kept badgering Chris who was about 55.
    Jesse at 22 shoukd have shown trainer Chris more respect.
    This shit went on for over six months.
    One Friday after working out in the parking lot chris caught Jesse coming out and blindsided him with a baton.
    Caught him across the eyelid.
    It did get settled in the courts.
    But bad boy Jesse was never the same and he was so humiliated by this that he stopped working out and was never seen around again.
    My advice to kenpo j, Brooks, fibbery etc.
    Stop your creepy posting or do you have split personalities?
    Your a real sneak.
    If you want to end the b.s. take the promotion.
    You’ll get knocked out, that’s all.
    And you will earn your respect from the real bad asses here.
    You know who the two are, don’t you.
    Do me a favor.
    I need 10 grand.
    And, I did not call you faking a different voice.
    Now, kenpo j Brooks….get your life together!

  1017. Oh, Robert Libby I sparred Thursday and went 6-3’s with two different guys.
    Had not sparred in about 7 weeks.
    Just bag work, sprints and calisthenics 3, sometimes 4 days weekly.
    I was getting hit and my timing was off the first two rounds by round 4 I started to find my groove.
    One thing when I cornered my spar partners and keep them on the ropes winging body shots, double hooks and they couldn’t get off it really didn’t affect things.
    Timing does not seem to be an issue if your opponent is getting hit and is unable to fire back.
    As for taking, if you’ve been hit before and can take a good shot lack of ring time-sparring is not really affecting that factor.
    Unless you’ve been out partying and drinking when off and your conditioning is in the toilet.
    Take care.

  1018. Sounds like your training is going well. I am going to post another video soon on how you can use 12 to 14 gloves as focus gloves. I am using a video by Frank Soto as he did a pretty good video, but I will show how to make it better. If you do the drills with gloves on the front of the glove can punch the padded back so it is pad on pad and builds speed. He can flip it one way for a hook and another for a cross to build eye to hand speed.
    I agree with you. I feel Brooks is Joshua, but others just may be Kenpo loony tunes, but they all may be him. He has admitted to lying already. All these Kenpo guys talk tough but always back down when confronted. But there are a few good ones out there. They definitely act like brainwashed cult members.
    And if they have such a great system why won;t they test it for real? We know the answer to that one. And notice the same pattern as Brooks- the making of demands as if he is so special and important. I already challenged a 4th degree black belt and he folded and whined like a little girl. But Ed Parker had his wife call me to back out- what a punk! And the tradition carries on to this day!
    Good luck with your fights, your work, your schooling, and your marriage!

  1019. No surprise when you Google “Robert Libby kenpo” or “Bob Libby kenpo” that absolutely nothing comes up, except this thread. Robert, you are a joke, and have no lasting impact on the martial arts except wheezing doing slow motion techniques in your living room and being a troll to those with real experience and positive impact on the world. Congrats gramps!

  1020. I am sorry to hear Jimmy passed away. He was a great man!

  1021. Robert Libby,
    Thanks.
    Listen, this jerk is posting using another alias and he’s hell bent on bashing you.
    Think it would be a good idea to contact the guys who gave him his belts, the DVD producers and get them to shut his trap?
    His bull shit makes him look like crap too, right?
    I will NEVER see the 10 grand.
    Nobody has agreed and all you get is fake garbage coming from him, pest, Brooks, kenpo j, and the new feces fibbery.
    Who are the people responsible for GIVING him these kenpo DVD belts?
    I’ll call.
    I been uncessfull in getting a phone for” brother” Gregory Paynes.
    Robert Libby you can’t let them disrespect you.
    See, this bafoon has decided to pick on you maybe because of your age or because you may not be at your prime weight.
    I read what he said under the Brooks alias where he reference diabetes like it was a joke.
    These slime slobs are lower than low, but they are costing me 10 g and you a possible trip to New York.
    No doubt here that “as is” you would demolish him and his instructor and probably pretty easily.
    From what I saw, all I would do to either is throw fast hard punches as fast as I could and try to break my hands on their face.
    You shoukd be getting way more respect from this punk.

  1022. Let’s see Bob Libby’s black belt certificates. …

  1023. I feel contacting Pestaner’s people is useless. And personally I feel it is great that they are harassing me- it shows what petty losers they really are. It also shows that like all cult followers, who are also losers, that they have no rational defenses to my videos.
    It is amazing that they want to hold me to a certain standard yet follow a man who had no standards. Ed Parker was a con man from the beginning along with his wife. I believe they put this together as a scam from day one and knew enough people would believe his bullshit to make a living. And his videos show he knew nothing about fighting or martial arts. How can you watch his videos and not realize what a clown Ed Parker was? His legacy is a sting of other clowns!
    But I would have loved to see you knock Pestaner out!

  1024. Robert Libby,
    I studied more of your videos last night.
    Great instruction and the real fight footage was an eye opener.
    I liked your body block/torque into the hook one.
    You’d probably make a pretty respectable boxing coach too.
    Yeah, the one thing that can switch it around in a fight is a good hard punch to the jaw.
    Seen a lot of experienced sparring guys like me and get caught with a solid shot and unable to use all that talent.
    You have any defenses or advice for the sneak/sucker punch?
    Especially the one now where you get clocked by some stranger and his buddy films it?
    Keep those videos coming.

  1025. Thanks for the compliments! As to a “sucker punch” there is no defense. The only defense is when you see the phone or camera filming walk away from them. They seem to do it with few people around so just be aware of your surroundings.
    I will have more videos up in a few days as we are taking a few days off.

  1026. But Ed, unlike Blobery Eatliberally, actually has videos of him moving and moving fast and powerful. Videos of Blobery Lippy? They just don’t exist. I wonder why?

  1027. Ed Parker Jr the XVIIIC

    Any videos of Bob Libblly in action? Or just standing in his living room?

  1028. I am Pd Earker Senior Grand Master of the American Kenpo System.
    I teach KARATE!
    Recently, a bunch of boxing promoters ask for any karate or judo bum to fight the great Milo Savage.
    I have to step aside because that dude will clean my fat clock.
    But, my buddy Judo Gene and his mafia investors will step in.
    The maf will intimidate Savage and when I fight him he will be scared shitless and lose.
    I could have used my Lucille Ball skills and beat up Milo Savage but my gi is now black not white and I don’t want to come off as a racist.
    All that know me including Robert Libby here, will agree that I can destroy anybody with my Kenpo skills even though the bad kajukenbo klan from Hawaii told me to get lost and I combined japanese forms into my soft/hard style of index card instructions and learn by writing and reading training without any physical work.
    To all my groupies here that love and support me.
    OSH!

  1029. Hi I Garfeld, I dun speak englash well butt Bob is my fighting guru. He is god to the parkers cult. He can still fight all the days and actully has six pack still. His punches hav great velocity to my blocks. Challng him and he will eat yours for breakfast, lunche, and diner !!

  1030. Hi Guys, I’m the webmaster here, Al Case.
    First, my apologies to Robert Libby and a few other fellows. For whatever reason, some of their comments were put in the pending basket. Don’t know why, shouldn’t have been, I’ve fixed it, but I apologize.
    Second, Beavis and Butthead seem to be having a lot of fun here. I want to remind them, fun is fun, but the martial arts are based on respect. I’m not going to stop any comments, but i want you to be aware that sometimes you come off a bit rude and illiterate and ‘un-martial arts’ like.
    Third, for those who don’t know, I believe Robert Libby is under the pseudonym of Bobbo Morgan on youtube. Correct me if that doesn’t work.
    Fourth, my personal think, RobertLibby is in your face, doesn’t worry about his language or who he offends. But the real key here, as is true for all martial arts, does it work? Or, does what he say makes sense. I find a lot of what he says interesting, and workable. There are a few things I disagree with, but that’s okay, if martial arts were all the same it would be a miserable world.
    You guys have fun, and a great work out.
    Al Case

  1031. ROBERT LIBBY,
    Had a kenpo Brown belt come to gym who said he boxed in college.
    He lasted 2 rounds.
    Nothing special, but he held his own.
    His hands were OK by boxing standards.
    Then he started doing dance like moves in corner and was practicing slaps and scratching on the bag.
    Said he learned from videos too some guy named Steve spry.
    How you been?

  1032. I’m okay. I have never heard of Steve Spry. But it is funny how some boxers do go to Kenpo. So they go from a totally effective system to a load of bullshit. I think it is for the money and having a product to sell.
    I have thought about this a lot recently and now believe that Ed Parker and Lelani saw a good scam and went with it. His wife was always in on the lies so why not! And look at the Mormon religion- a total scam.

  1033. Hey Robert. Just want to say that I definitely don’t agree with you on a lot of stuff but I defend your right to express your opinion. Also it’s people like you that rattle cages & get people thinking & challenging their ideals & we need that so we can evolve. The fact you have the kenpo Elites seeing Red & responding in such childish ways just proves that you are onto something. Please keep up the fight cos you do have many supporters out there including myself.

  1034. Thank you very much!

  1035. Got that right Mr. Chen.
    I’ll go on record to publicly state that I would have no problem with Robert Libby training me for boxing competitions.
    As for street combat, I picked up a lot of stuff from his videos that would help steer my gym boxing hands to the street.
    He’s the type of guy in marshall arts that boxer’s welcome because he is no nonsense no b.s. and knows our sport extremely well.
    These other guys are pissed because he is exposing how much crap some karate is about.
    Not all, some.

  1036. had a punk throw a right kick at me today.. did a variation of thrusting salute where i parried his kick ,,,answered with a kick to his groin[before he had a chance to plant his foot followed by a vertical punch to his jaw that ended the confrontation,, so glad to know this supposed BULLSHIT art of kenpo worked for me when i needed it

  1037. If you believe in your system, study and practice diligently, as well as question your concepts to adapt them better to your environment and your own body structure and strengths; usually you gonna be fine.

  1038. Blobbert Blimpy

    Still waiting on videos from Robert Libby showing his stuff in a more live environment…
    Me thinks it will be a loooong wait.

  1039. Yah, karate/Kenpo/traditional martial arts could never work for real, LOL.

    Here are some clips that appear to have risen to see the light of day after a very long time. If you fly,are spontaneous, are strong, or fluid liketbeae guys in these demos and point fighting=you’re not going to get picked on very much if at all. This is Kenpo/Karate/Martial arts. No shame or sham about it.

    https://youtu.be/3NWr_mLXwUM
    https://youtu.be/kr8wVGTvq1E
    https://youtu.be/luL7tyqsvkA
    https://youtu.be/YA-aax1Wjo0

  1040. Blimpy and the other chupa pingas here should leave Mr. Libby be.
    What’s with the constant diarrhea chatter?
    His videos are excellent resources and all you fanatics of Kenpo who dislike him should at lease respect him.
    He could probably do a number on guys like Speakman, Tatum, and other posers.
    That’s my opinion, not his.
    I see some fast slapping kenpo technicians on YouTube and my question is can they do it when a guy is pissed, unwilling, and throwing wild punches.
    So, pujeteros cut Robert Libby some slack.
    He is after all a guy who tested his skills on the street and his knowledge should not be discounted.
    Respect Robert Libby, Respect Robert Libby, Respect Robert Libby!!!

  1041. As always GRACIAS AMIGO! Just look at the level of the discourse and it matches the Kenpo mentality. In my next video I discuss the Parker legacy as one of fraud and a con game and feel I show very good evidence. I also salute a Kenpo person for doing some good stuff and pay homage to Benny Urquidez my former teacher and a Hell of a man! And I show some other fight stuff and how to get out of a side headlock on the ground.

  1042. well,… libby .tony accepted your challenge.. now you will feel real kenpo when hes whopping that ass… LOL

  1043. Mr. Harshman,
    I will accept Tonys challenge if Robert Libby is unable to make it.
    How do I get in touch with Tony?
    I assume your talking about Kenpo Master Tony Martinez right?
    Only accepting if Robert can’t make the date from his home in Thailand.
    I await your response.

  1044. nope im talking tony collins.. who was challenged by mr libby… and im not sure hell accept a substitute.. you can see him on facebook

  1045. Monfongo,
    Tony Collins is a clown who claims he is a 10th degree Kenpo black belt and is like 40. But when asked who promoted him to 10th degree he gets angry and has tantrums. I also asked what his highest rank was with Paul Mills and the AKKI. who he says he used to be with, and he will not answer that either. This is the type of asshole Kevin Harshman would follow- a fraud like Ed Parker.
    https://youtu.be/shZ1Zrc4GmM
    The link is him teaching and wearing a 10th degree belt. He knows nothing about fighting and I cannot believe he would go public as it is easy to prove he is a liar. And his skills are abysmal. He is a con man and fraud like many Kenpo people. All he does is flail his arms at high speed and has zero body mechanics or power. And Kevin Harshman says I will “feel the power of Kenpo”- Yes, like when Ed Parker ran away and wet himself, or Ron Wilstein who would not fight me, Joshua Pestaner who will not fight Billy Mack and for a guaranteed pay day and a chance to publicly show the “power of Kenpo”, or Steve Shaffer who panicked and chickened out. Kevin forgets that saying you accept a challenge is not following through. Also look at Kevin’s ridiculous story of some imaginary street fight- I guess people just walk around trying to kick him in the groin, and Pestaner of course supports his lies.
    He lives in Missouri and calls himself “Thor”- he is a major clown.
    Nice to have somebody who has my back!

  1046. Libby,
    Probably a month or so ago, Payne brought you up in a conversation we were having. He was wondering who you were because of things you post. He didn’t know where you get the whacky ideas and how you say so much and look very bad. He invites your challenge. Let’s just leave it at that. Come here and he has no problem. No need for back and forth talk. When are you going to be here?

    The Billy talk is laughable. This seems to be a way you enjoy stirring the pot. It’s all imaginary. Get over it.

    Monfongo, stay out of inviting yourself into other people’s challenges and conversations. Let’s say you’re real: you don’t represent, have any affiliation, or any training by Libby. You stepping up is meaningless. Another man wants to behave silly, let him be. He deserved reaching his age and is able to do things on his own. The Monfongo times of talk are just screens. Libby has the freedom to believe and say what he wants. He wants to throw around challenges, he’s got to deal with them himself. That goes for any independent man or woman.

  1047. Kenpo J,
    I respect where your coming from, but I represent myself and some other recognizable names that prefer not to be brought up on these type conversations.
    On top of that, as I have been in the past and continue to do is support Robert Libby and have his back.
    Stepping up and accepting challenges on behalf of others has been done in the past.
    I aligned myself with Shihan Libby a long time ago because I respect him and his achievements in the arts, agree with his combat mindset, and believe that what he post on this forum and through his YouTube instructions is of emense value to those seeking to fine tune their Martial Arts toward the street should it be needed as a last resort.
    Several of my own instructors are now in their 80’s.
    They still have a lot to offer, and unlike those here(you know who you are)that have chosen to make unnecessary and derogatory comments toward Master, that’s right Master Libby me and MANY others value his unmatched knowledge of street Martial Arts.

  1048. You accept challenges when they are challenged by otbers,but not when your buddy is throwing the challenges. It doesn’t put him a good light.

    Imagine Michael Jordan passed the ball off to someone every time he was about to score a layup or dunk. If he did that, I guarantee we would not be talking about him to this day. Or let’s say he talked trash to Dikembe Mutombo that he could smash a dunk on him,but always passed it or tried to shoot it instead, no one would think his talk was valid.

    Libby is the one throwing challenges and talking badly of others and their practice. He needs to be the only one backing up his challenges.

    Unmatched knowledge? That’s like you calling him the ultimate being… Kind of silly, right? The things Libby says are usually cherry picked ideas or concepts from others. So that would mean his knowledge is shared by others.

  1049. Tough talk from a punk who uses multiple screen names and is a liar. I never said what I taught was made by me but at least it works and I learned from the best as opposed to a pussy promoted by DVDS! You are a cunt and slime bag on so many levels! You are a disgrace to martial arts!
    And at least my challenges were real. It is you Kenpo Kupkakes who fold and run away pissing your pants! Ed Parker would not fight me and several others. You are a delusional little fuck and fool like your mentor Ed Parker.
    You need to grow the fuck up you mental midget. You live by lies and fraud! Fuck you Joshua!
    And a real challenge with a fair opponent was made and you ran away just like Ed Parker, Ron Wilstein, and Steve Shaffer. Kenpo is a disgrace!

  1050. Robert,
    Saw the video link.
    The guy is typical kenpo.
    Not on level with Tatum or the other technical slappers, but for what it is I guess ok.
    Don’t pay attention to your detractors here brother.
    Just keep doing your thing knowing that many WILL benefit from your videos.
    They are trying to lure you into some type of set up and you as I know that your stuff works.
    Kenpo J seems to have taken a more peaceful approach toward criticizing, thumbs up for that.
    However, he and his kenpo followers will argue theirs until the end of time.
    I bet if you asked some hardened street thug to choose between kenpo or what your preaching, most would pick your stuff.
    I’m here whenever you need me.

  1051. Michael Brooks

    It’s useless to argue. Bob hides behind a character that is somewhere unknown in Thailand, whose made up followers say everyone should be respectful to Bob, while he insults others and started insulting a revered instructor, Ed Parker. The link below of another site, also has Bob saying he challenged Mr. Parker, but there is also a made up friend or ally, Ron Morgan, on the same link who also said he challenged Mr. Parker and it is noted they both used the same IP address. People on this blog seem to remember that Mr. Parker had to chase Bob off more than once, and he seems to have been a dojo jock who learned from a lot of people, which allowed him to be a teacher of sorts, but he never seemed to complete a study, or start a legitimate school of any type. Then you have silly Billy, coming here on postings above as a beginning boxer, saying he was told to by an imaginary cousin, and siding with Bob as if he’s his idol.
    Bob’s videos currently show an extremely out of shape instructor, demonstrating singular Kenpo techniques with his suggestions. So we’re left with Bob and the scenario that Bob married a Thai woman. That could be a possibility, because she would at least be obligated to stay married to him for at least 5 years in order to obtain American citizenship. Just brought that up, to understand a possible legitimate move from America. And there’s the possibility that he and Ron…or Billy or the others, are one and the same and could be his gay lovers – not that I’m against people’s particular lifestyles, just trying to let people know what they might be dealing with regarding Mr. Libby posts and accusations and their overall weirdness. Mr. Libby says Thailand, but can’t post any pictures. (Every King has a Joker and Ed was the King!)
    Fairly recently you could find that someone with his name and creditials, taught boxing, apparently at or around the Fall Rivers, Massachusetts Police Athletic League, and he’s also lived in Minnesota, Wyoming and may still live in Minnesota or Mass.
    http://www.stickgrappler.net/2012_10_01_archive.html
    http://www.stickgrappler.net/
    Stickgrappler’s Sojourn of Septillion Steps
    BOXING: Peck & Shoot: The Jab by Leon
    10/31/2012 11:00:00 AM Boxing, Leon, Spladdle, Techniques, Training No comments
    ‘Excerpted from http://www.spladdle.com/forum/showthread.php?t=139 and http://www.spladdle.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1471 Peck & Shoot: The Jab By Leon This is almost a lost technique in the gyms of today. When I started training @ the Fall River PAL in 98′ [home to Scott Pemberton, Ray Oliveira, Jason Pires] the trainer, LIBBY, TAUGHT THIS DRILL. Actually Pemb taught it to me. This drill basically sparring w/out being hit. A gym must for reaction training! There are two basic elements to this two man drill. One person shoots,…’
    So anybody being challenged by a Monfongo, or a Billy Mack, might realize it could more realistically be an old trainer friend of Bob, who also won’t post his real telephone number and address, while he challenges everybody.
    Interesting website – but it was started with some wrong premises. To me, Ed Parker’s Kenpo, can and should, be practiced until you can do the thousands of moves systematically, over and over again, with power from your natural choice side, and your unnatural side. It can be practiced privately, without a partner, and Mr. Parker did that constantly. Remember the first martial artist didn’t have a master. And remember the bully in the movie ‘Enter the Dragon’ where Bruce answers: ‘My style – the art of not fighting.’ Everyone dreams of beating the master, but then they wake up. Bob never woke up. He’s too old to fight now, let him rant. Just repost this every once in a while.

  1052. libby.. easy to mock someone youve never met.. your good at that.. fact is you threw a challenge at tony and he accepted, so let the rubber meet the road… you said IF your in the states in a year you”” ll meet,, so do it,, prove once and for all us kenpos sissies are just that..im betting youll come up with lame excuse why you cant meet him.. as for my altercation it was a young punk trying to shoe off to him friends.. thought a groin kicjk would take me out.. he found out otherwise as you were not there you have no right to comment on it,, either way i dont care what you think.. ill telling tony IF you decide to shoew ot let me know,, it might be worth a plane ticket

    • Michael Brooks

      It’s useless to argue with this person. You posted your address way back after he challenged everyone, but he never posted his.

  1053. Kevin, I have already proven what cowards Kenpo people are. You are completely delusional! Ed Parker ran away, Ron Wilstein didn’t show, Joshua Pestaner will not fight Irish Billy Mack, and Steve Shaffer backed out.
    All you are is a liar ad brain washed cult member. And Tony Collins, who is a fraud, will not show if I go out there.
    I was in Texas and told Steve Shaffer the airfare rate and wanted a day- he panicked and threatened to have me arrested. He is like Chicken Little and “the sky is falling.”
    And if you had any ethics or credibility you would be far more upset about Tony Collins wearing a 10th degree Kenpo black belt that he never earned, but you have no integrity. And as Kenpo started by fraud I guess you people are used to that!

  1054. Steve Shaffer

    Libby,
    Ya’ know you are so full of it. I’ve moved on from this pathetic Kenpo blog, but you seemed to include me in your rants. I did not chicken out as you keep posting. I took the high road because this is a debate. That’s what sane people do. Instead you throw down a fight challenge. It just proves you’re a sociopath and deserve to be in jail.
    I’m certain this is what Ed Parker thought of your challenge to him. He’s having dinner, Lellani takes your call, he chuckles, and says, tell him I have a heart condition.
    Next day he flies to a seminar to teach and build the system and you’re stuck being all stompy feet. Whaaaaah! Ed Parker won’t fight me.
    Dude! Fighting is a last resort.
    And your so-called cool fighting moves, you pary the punch from Garfield, then use the other hand, HINT—that’s Clutching Feathers!!!
    Here’s your approach to teaching. “Today, we’re gonna learn the left hook ” and you clock the student, breaking his jaw just stay ‘real’. No wonder you have no students and live in the jungle.
    Your buddy Larry Hartsell , who did that training video you linked. I got news for you…that demonstration was the ideal phase!!’ A cooperative student/partner complying with the moves being applied to him. It’s called teaching. So stop with the rants about no ideal. Like I said before…it’s a progression of learning.
    At the end of the day, Kenpo is essentially a framework to move in case of a unprovoked attack. Categories of attacks such as grabs, pushes, and punches, and weapons, Multiple attackers are explored to give a person experience in each of these. In a self defense scenario, nothing is ideal so one has to practice the what ifs.
    Ed Parker repeatedly stated that he’d rather have 4 techniques he can work with than 40 that work him. The lesson there is if you’d bother to really understand Kenpo (which you don’t) is to get to the essential movements and then explore options off those fundamentals.
    I’m done with you. Have a nice life what’s left of it. And good luck in this forum. It’s an echo chamber. Same thing, different day. Yawn.
    What an idiot loser.
    No wonder Parker ignored you.

  1055. WOW! Why does it always take you a page for what could be said in two sentences?
    Steve, you chickened out. You said the Leon County Sheriff would arrest me if I showed up. That shows you were afraid.
    Vic Leroux was on the phone with me after the incident and I was at Paul Dalton’s home, another great Kenpo black belt that Ed Parker fucked over, and told me that Ed Parker wanted me and Paul Dalton to come back as we were too valuable to lose. Paul said “tell that fat pineapple picking son of a bitch to go fuck himself.” I just said “no way.”
    Everything you wrote was wrong and you do not even know your own system and how it is supposed to work. You are a hack martial artist who has no business teaching. You, Joshua Pestaner, Mike Bennett, Mills Crenshaw, Kevin Harshman, and so many Kenpo people are martial arts disgraces.
    You give yourself belts and make a mockery of martial artists that worked to get their belts and can actually fight.
    But as they say “the fish rots from the head down” and the head of Kenpo was a fraud.

  1056. Michael Brooks

    It’s useless to argue with this guy. Bob hides behind a character that is somewhere unknown in Thailand, whose made up followers say everyone should be respectful to Bob, while he insults others and started insulting a revered instructor, Ed Parker. He alludes to Paul Duncan, who was a Black Belt under Ed Parker, but Mr. Libby is not listed as a black belt. There are posts by him and an old guy on another site saying they both threatened Mr. Parker and someone saw they were using the same IP address. Mr. Libby has lived in Minnesota and Massachusetts and apparently taught as a boxing instructor for P.A.L. He seems to have jumped around from different self-defense systems, but never finished any, so he is considered a teacher but that’s it. He was around the same time as Benny Urquidez, but Mr. Libby did not attempt to prove himself in the ring then. He’s too old to fight now so he rants. And there is more than one story apparently on this blog that Mr. Parker ran him off. Every King has a joker. You don’t know if he’s even gay, not that I’m against any particular lifestyle, but noticed the drippy posts by others. Maybe he lives in Thailand now, where a woman would become an American citizen if she stay married to an American for 5 years – but he makes a lot of challenges and he and his ‘followers’ never post their address. Next time you threaten to ‘kill’ me, Mr. Libby, post your address.
    Peck & Shoot: The Jab By Leon This is almost a lost technique in the gyms of today. When I started training @ the Fall River PAL in 98′ [home to Scott Pemberton, Ray Oliveira, Jason Pires] the trainer, LIBBY, TAUGHT THIS DRILL. Actually Pemb taught it to me. This drill basically sparring w/out being hit. A gym must for reaction training! There are two basic elements to this two man drill. One person shoots,…’
    Remember the bully in the movie ‘Enter the Dragon’ where Bruce answers: ‘My style – the art of not fighting.’ Everyone dreams of beating the master, but then they wake up. Bob never woke up.

  1057. This kick-started fast

    *Kevin Harshman did you send this latest attacker to the hospital too? Bad-ass Kenpoists must be the 2nd, at most the 3rd, leading cause of ER visits based on all the similar stories I’ve heard from them. Never once saw such an altercation, but heard of them over and over. Odd.

    Strangely, Kenpo never seems to work in MMA/ jiu jitsu / wrestling / boxing gyms or competitions.

    PS: you should take a minute to proof your posts. “shoe off to him friends”

    * You can tell from the slappy nature of Tony Collins’ techniques that he’s in the Mills lineage. If he and Robert do fight, I’d be shocked if he even tries the 1-2-3 slapping the Mills people seem so fond of. My guess is that he’d resort to youth and condition to fight Libby.

    Surprising to see someone with such sloppy mechanics wearing a 10th degree. Then again, I’ve seen even worse.

    * Re: Tatum— I remember a quote from Ed Parker saying something like “Larry Tatum is my #1 guy, he moves just like me.” With post-Kenpo eyes I see that Parker was flattering himself – he couldn’t do the techniques anywhere near as well as Tatum. WTF would he say that about Tatum then boot him out?

    *Re: Speakman—he’s actually mandating that his people spar and they’re heavily influenced by MMA. A huge step forward for most Kenpoists.

    * I partially agree with Steve Schaffer that this is just a debate —there is such ample evidence to judge the effectiveness of Kenpo that another single datum (challenge match) would be almost meaningless except to the participants. At this point it’s like a creation vs. evolution debate.

    However Steve, Kenpoists ought to step up. The SBG MMA chain has an official policy that if you show up at their gyms and ask an instructor to spar with you, they MUST spar with you—because their techniques and philosophy actually work and they’re willing to prove it. Any Kenpo schools with that policy? Would there be so many 10th degrees if there were?

    If a strength training philosophy hasn’t produced victories in decades it ought to be abandoned for those that have even if the philosophy seems like it should work.

    * Robert, there was a discussion thread about your videos on KenpoTalk. You might want to check it out. Just beware as that forum makes this seem tame. The upside is more posters.
    tinyurl.com/zuxuk3e

    * The most cultish aspect of Kenpo is making it untestable. The preferred method for doing that is “the street”— Challenge matches are not “the street” and thus don’t test Kenpo in their eyes.

  1058. kevin harshman

    former kenpo,,, no he didnt go to the hospital but he did go down and the fight ended….i never seen the wind either,, doesnt mean it doesnt exist…. as to tony,, how or where he got his 10th i dont know,, if you say his slaps are sloppy then you are not familiar with the AKKI and their methods,.. may i suggest you contact mr mills and tell him his methods are sloppy no doubt youll be invited to a seminar where hell be happy to demostrate how they feel ,not to hurt but as parker use to say “”to feel is to beleive,, as to challenges i agree they are pointless ..why dont you point this out to mr Libby.,. who likes to issue them at the drop of a hat

  1059. I checked it out. It is like a bunch of cackling old women. And like all Kenpo idiots they start with lies. Some fool named “Kenpo Changer” says I disabled comments. That is a lie.
    What they do not realize is that the title IKKA for International Kenpo Karate Association” cannot be used, the letters IKKA can be but not the exact title, as Ed was busted for I believe tax evasion and fraud. Now it is the International Kenpo Karate Academies and not Association.
    Also notice “Michael Brooks” comments. He just repeats the same lies. He is so pathetic. But he is hurting Kenpo so I hope he keeps it up.
    And still not one counter video. But as they know nothing about fighting they cannot do a counter.

  1060. Kevin you are so full of shit. And you should not be talking about “challenges” as whenever I have issued one you Kenpo Kupkakaes run around in a panic and either do not show up, chicken out, or have your wife call me to plea for your life.
    You should think a little more before you open that pie hole you call a mouth!
    As to Paul Mills and AKKI one of my videos critiques them- it all bullshit. And who gave Paul Mills a 10th degree? Paul Mills gave Paul Mills a 10th degree.
    And as I have said before when I said I as coming to America where were all the Kenpo posers? Doing their hair?
    And where is one legitimate counter video to mine? Not a single nor a peep. And even high ranking Kenpo people like Frank Soto have said my critiques are accurate. People who know nothing about fighting cannot do a rebuttal as they have no where to go.
    And Kevin, you never had a fight. You made it up to seem important and make it seem that Kenpo works. And as the “Parker lineage” is all based on fraud by a con artist where couild they go?

  1061. libby your one full of shit,, you issued tony a challenge and he accepted i saw the posts between you two,,,, you said if you get to the states in the years you lll take hiim up on it… and if you think paul mills is shit send him a e-mail telling him so,,, i dare you,,, but i wont hold my breath cause it aint gonna happen, unless you where there when i had my confrontation[which you werent,, you cannot express an opinon on it,,, but of course you will

  1062. That’s right Kevin, I said I may be out next year. But where were all you posers when I was there last year?
    And stop lying! You had no fight and made it up.
    Hey, I have an idea, why don’t you or one of your Kenpo geniuses do a counter video to what I have posted?
    And I already critiqued an AKKI video and said it was shit. All slapping and pure bullshit.
    I’ll be holding my breath waiting for a video! Oh, but wait, videos are already out and all make Kenpo practitioners look like fools and frauds. And that starts with Ed Parker. He looks terrible in all the videos he is in.
    You are such a punk you have to make up stories to make it seem like Kenpo works.
    Below is part of a comment to me from a marine. The whole thing is on Steve Shaffer’s idiotic Clutching Feathers response. Kenpo almost got him killed:
    “I will admit my first 3 years (before the Marines) I fell for the belief Kenpo was the ultimate system. I learned the error of the mindset of “one ultimate system” the hard way later while overseas with a guy in between my legs stacking me up on my shoulder, dribbling my head off the ground. Came to realize real quick Kenpo’s answer of what to do when you get knocked down (stand back up safely as quickly as possible) wasn’t the right answer. Case in point, I think it was the first UFC where the Kenpo guy gets knocked down and then all he does is butt shuffle until he gets pummeled. Fortunately, when my lights went out two of my friends made it to me. The next day I immediately went to my GySgt and asked him to begin teaching me jiu-jitsu.”

  1063. beleive what you will libby i was there you werent,, but the bottom line i dont have to prove myself to you or your lackeys,,,again if you have the balls email paul mills and tell him hes bullshit,, you wont,, cause you know hed wipe the floor with your ass in about 2 seconds,, anyway didnt mean to get caught upin the back and forth with you,,, pointless as usual

  1064. You know as entertaining as this forum is, I’ve put this question forth a few times, if you dont like what mr libby says then you are free to go on your merry way. I would rather hear about roberts experience & opinions without the garbage from insecure kempoists. So how bout if don’t have something to meaningful to contribute…… piss off!!!!!!! It’s so easy. At least wen Robert & shaffer were arguing the merits of some self defense, they were actually talking martial arts & not semantic bullshit. Good day gentleman. P’s to mr former kenpo I welcome ur comments, you at least display common courtesy in civilized discourse.

  1065. Kevin, you could never prove anything to me as you are incapable of it.
    Here is a comment from a US Marine and how Kenpo failed him. I have seen it fail and know it fails all the time.
    “I will admit my first 3 years (before the Marines) I fell for the belief Kenpo was the ultimate system. I learned the error of the mindset of “one ultimate system” the hard way later while overseas with a guy in between my legs stacking me up on my shoulder, dribbling my head off the ground. Came to realize real quick Kenpo’s answer of what to do when you get knocked down (stand back up safely as quickly as possible) wasn’t the right answer.”

  1066. I cannot believe what I am reading here.
    Arguing like school children.
    Just to add truth to the debate
    My uncle was a 5th Degree in Kenpo.
    Five years ago he got into an altercation with two guys in a bar.
    It went to the back lot.
    He was cracked in the face by one who had rocks in a sock.
    Before he got hit his Kenpo wasn’t working and none of his strikes stopped these guys.
    I saw the video from the bar surveillance camera in court.
    He’s still pissed off that none of his training saved him from broken facial bones and the humiliation of having people ask him for years why his black belt karate stuff didn’t help him.

  1067. kevin harshman

    Dean,,its not the art”s fault you uncle couldnt apply what is taught,, there are sloppy kenpo people out there[not saying your uncle is one] but there also masters of the art that have learn to apply the principles in street situation

  1068. Guess your right.
    They outweigh my uncle and were not only big guys they were much younger.
    He use to work in construction and the few time years before that he was forced to use his stuff it worked.
    Said that kenpo karate was the most progressive style of self defense and that it was the popular style for bodyguards and security professionals.
    I think that no matter how good kenpo is or the person using it skill probably diminishes with age and taking a sock full if rocks to the face would damage the best self defense experts chances of using his stuff.
    Not for nothing but I like the kenpo arts and was shocked to read all of the things being said here.

  1069. Age definitely diminishes speed, agility, strength, etc. Sock full of rocks can take any man out.

    Not sure if Kenpo is ideal for Security/Bouncing. For body guarding it’s great. I worked Security and Bouncing and Kenpo had aspects or elements that can be used in the Security or Bouncing realm, but striking arts in general are not supposed to be key ingredients for that profession. I have seen practitioners of various arts be very effective in Security, and not a majority coming from any specific art. Maybe that has changed over the years. I just speak from recent work and observations.

    Martial arts should adapt to the practitioner’s strengths and in this case , age. We cannot fight the same as we did when we were younger. Gotta be sneaky and moves ahead. Fight probably shouldn’t have started outside or allowing others know a fight was about to go down. But every situation is different.

  1070. you are not familiar with the AKKI and their methods – Kevin Harshman

    Nearly every clip of them is embarrassingly slap-happy. Here is a clip of 5th & 8th degree AKKI guys finger slapping each other and pretending they’re hurt—it makes the Three Stooges stuff look effective.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XclAnPHvx8w

    There’s more than enough out there to make an informed opinion about their methods and I believe their finger slaps will just piss off a determined attacker

    “i suggest you contact mr mills and tell him his methods are sloppy”

    You’re misquoting me–I said Tony Collins moved sloppily, not Paul Mills. I’d put Mills up with Tatum and a couple others who can make Kenpo look and sound great: they’re both much better than Ed Parker was– if fighting involved whomping in an immobile opponent, they’d be amazing. Collins didn’t hit the Kenpo stances or have any other of the signs of technical proficiency, hence my assessment of his Kenpo as sloppy. He did look like a big, strong guy.

    And again Kevin, one need not meet the deities du jour of Kenpo to judge it’s efficacy. Boxing works for even the average guy and you needn’t test it against Mike Tyson to make a judgment. You keep saying “but, Pick / Mills”. What about them? 30 secs on google showed that Mills’ only MMA competitor has an 0-2 record with his 2nd fight lasting all of 20 seconds. Perhaps he tried the 1-2-3 slap thing. I can’t find any evidence of Tatum’s guys doing MMA, but they don’t move like their idol either and I don’t imagine they’d fare better in MMA.

    It’s stupid of you to keep offering other people up to prove your system.

    i agree they are pointless ..why dont you point this out to mr Libby

    OK, I will. . . Robert, I don’t think challenge matches will change a lot of minds, except possibly for the participants and a few of their direct students. Two decades of “no-holds-barred” fighting has laid out he case for alive training conclusively. If someone isn’t convinced at this point then seeing a challenge match on Youtube isn’t going to work.

    It’s like the navy (Jock??) guy you posted who said that it takes 3-5 challenge match losses to BJJ to convince a someone that their lifelong art doesn’t work. And even then they’ll grasp at straws to preserve their high opinions of their martial art
    > there were rules, unlike the street—I’d have gouged your eyes and crushed your balls
    > but Mike Pick / Larry Tatum could’ve done it
    > I do Karate for health/discipline/friendship/art/cultural/etc.
    > this is better for people who don’t have the time or athleticism to train for sport arts
    > Ed Parker beat 6 armed attackers in 7 seconds: the system works even if I can’t

    Kevin, would you consider 1 year of boxing or MMA? As long as you’ve been doing Kenpo you’ve got the big stuff down and any small details you don’t have probably aren’t that important. You should probably hide that you’re a karate BB as some of the boxers/ mma’ists might decide that means you need to see the true effectiveness of their arts and whip you with extra fervor.

  1071. kevin harshman

    former kenpo..”might whip you with extra fervor”” my address is 1049 blaine ave indianapolis ind… im not hard to find…..later

    • “my address is 1049 blaine ave indianapolis ind… im not hard to find…..later”

      Whether you live in Paris or Indianapolis my advice to you remains the same

      1. Go to a boxing or MMA gym and actually learn how to fight. You’ve been doing Kenpo long enough that, because of the law of diminishing returns, anything you’ve missed probably isn’t that important.

      2. If you heed advice point #1 above, don’t go announcing that you’re a black belt who kicks ass in street fights as that will make the boxers or MMA’ists put a little more oomph on their attacks either because they think you can handle it (protip: you can’t) or to teach you a lesson.

      A couple stories to illustrate point #2.

      Peyton Quinn, the self-defense author / bouncer / martial artist, wanted to learn boxing after seeing that it’s boxers who seemed to prevail in the barrooms where he worked. The boxers who knew that he was a karate BB decided he needed a rougher introduction to the sweet science because of that BB. Quinn reported that the experience taught him that he couldn’t necessarily beat boxers even if he were allowed to use his entire repertoire of weapons.

      A karate brown belt decided to take up BJJ after seeing its effectiveness in no-holds-barred fighting. He was in the locker room getting dressed and was about to tie on his brown belt – schools sometimes let you wear your previous rank as a courtesy – when one of the senior BJJ students stopped him “JEEZ! Don’t wear that, they’ll kill you!” That is the essence of point #2.

  1072. kevin harshman

    former kenpo,.,, what makes you think kenpo is the only art ive ever studied?? you assume alot with out checking out facts ive alos trained in other fighting arts and i know alittle JJ,,, fact remains you open your mouth without really knowing anything about me.. other than i ve trained in kenpo,, if you reallyy want to know whether i can fight or not i suggest you contact me in person ,,otherwise ,, keep your mouth shut

  1073. Thumbs up to former kenpo!
    You are on point as to what happens when a Martial Arts guy comes to a boxing gym.
    Seen many a black belt get owned by guys with 3 months of boxing.
    Only once was some kenpo guy able to hang tough sparring boxing.
    He had fast hands, decent footwork, and was in good enough shape to take it.
    He got clocked continuously because he dropped his hands a lot, but he didn’t quit after the first round beat down.
    Boxing works VERY WELL on the street.
    And unlike Martial Arts is easy to remember and retain when you’ve been off.
    Throwing elbows off of hooks does not take a lot of training.
    Boxing works as a pure self defense type as well if not better than most of the time than karate.
    That’s a fact and this is a wrap.

  1074. Pingback: Ed Drugs In Upper East Side Florida – Erectile Dysfunction Drug Information

  1075. Michael Brooks you are a liar on so many levels. Below is the article you refer to. All it says is “Libby.” It never gives a first name so who is it?
    This is waht Kenpo slime bags like you do- you lie just like Ed Parker and his followers.
    Excerpted from http://www.spladdle.com/forum/showthread.php?t=139 and http://www.spladdle.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1471 Peck & Shoot: The Jab By Leon This is almost a lost technique in the gyms of today. When I started training @ the Fall River PAL in 98′ [home to Scott Pemberton, Ray Oliveira, Jason Pires] the trainer, Libby, taught this drill. Actually Pemb taught it to me. This drill basically sparring w/out being hit. A gym must for reaction training! There are two basic elements to this two man drill. One person shoots,…
    Then you say I lived in Massachusetts, Minnesota or Wyoming- I have never even been in those states which would be verified by a search.
    You are a fucking liar and worm!
    Then you say I “hide.” I have 18 videos on the Internet so I am hardly hiding.
    Huk Planas has verified I taught t the Santa Monica school as has Larry Tatum.
    The only one hiding and stirring up shit is you! You are a pathological liar and weasel. And your only back up is a lying cunt named Joshua Pestaner who admitted he used more than one name here.
    Please keep dong this as it proves all my points- Kenpo is a cult started by a liar and con man named Ed Parker who dodged the Milo Savage fight, ran away from me and has his wife call as he was to cowardly to call me himself, and made up this lie about beating 5 guys wwith knives and clubs in 7 seconds.
    So keep doing this stuff as it proves all my points!
    Where is your video or any video from the Kenpo Klowns?

  1076. I am getting ready for another video. I had problems with my tablet which I use for filming.
    I will show the roots of Kenpo lies and the Parker legacy of fraud.
    Steve Spry started the Masters Hall of Fame, and a guy I am exposing wears a 10th degree but is like 40 years old. He was inducted into the Masters Hall of Fame as a 10th degree but gave it to himself- just like Ed Parker. Truly shows the high standards of Kenpo!

  1077. Sorry Joshua but as per usual you are flat out wrong! Kenpo has nothing but shame!
    Let’s do a little recap:
    Ed Parker ducked the Milo Savage fight as he was a coward! He has Gene LeBell fight in his place.
    Ed Parker refused to fight me as verified by Tom Bleecker, a second generation EPAK 7th. degree black belt. But that time he had his wife take his place- how brave.
    Chen Style says he talked to Vic Leroux and Vic, your mentor, verified I chose Ed off.
    A fight was discussed in New York with cash money. What a great opportunity for Kenpo to shine and get publicity, but you and Michael Brooks ran with your tails between your legs and bitching all the way!
    Steve Shaffer was given an opportunity to show how great Kenpo is and he cried like a bitch! And he had every advantage! He used the Leon County Sheriff as his stand in.
    All you keep showing is what cowards you are. And all you ever show is what others have done. What have you done? And anybody who gets promoted by submitting a DVD is a total jerk off.
    Now look at all the EPAK clowns that have strapped on 10th degrees.
    Bart Vale on how rank is now “given out like candy.”
    https://youtu.be/m4_Uv-lRwLs
    So where is a video? I guess people that k ow nothing about fighting and scam people for money do not have a lot to show!
    And Greg Payne- a chef in the military who trained important people. That ia the story line to Steven Seagal’s “Under Siege” film. I wonder if that is as fake as your DVD black belts?

  1078. “There are 12,426 people in the U.S. with the last name Libby.” I googled this.
    This is how many people have the last name Libby in America moron. So which Libby were you referring to?
    And you still hide in the shadows like the cockroach that you are Michael Brooks.
    All cults accuse others of the exact things that they do- you are a liar and coward like Ed Parker and so many American Kenpo frauds.

  1079. Kenny "Roll The Dice" Day

    The rumors direct me to this disgusting site, and I start reading with all my might.
    Joshua, Brooks, and Libby just looking to fight, right?
    Monfongo, Shaffer, and Billy too is this shit for real or are you people screwed?
    Black Belts both young and old issuing challenges ain’t that bold.
    Kenpo talkers, combat experts, and all you other fuckers taking talented comedians like me and other readers for suckers.
    The site’s creator must be laughing cause of all this pathetic yapping.
    For the record I’m a dirty belt in comedic rapping, the new undisputed king of insults via poems and rymes so cocksuckers pay attention if you have the time.
    No crime in debates like the greats, but NONE of you crap talkers can clean the slate…any of you have a karate uniform to clean the coco splatter my granny left on the toilet seat?
    Poor old hag is lactose intolerant, just like ALL of you speakers of the Martial Arts.
    Now I’m bending over so line up and take a nice wif of my farts.
    That is if any of you kenpo combat boxer’s and self defense dvd exponents have any heart.
    I’ll end by saying you guys are entertaining.
    If you need some cash leave your name, number, and a brief message of interest I’m looking for any opening act for my show in sin city.
    Now, go back to your keyboard fights and make em good, as I sit on the potty and play with my wood.
    Oh shit!
    Say hello to MY LITTLE FRIEND.
    The End…..really?

  1080. Yo!
    Kenpo Karate Kock Feeders, no response?
    What da ya mean queens?
    I implore for some of you snap strikers, block bikers, punch pushers, or Yapping Masters of the monstrous Martial Aarise s to say something Im giving up on Kenpo.
    All of you black belch are simply atrocious!

  1081. kenny,, asinine comments like yours dont need a response no doubt you insult to get a rise out of people,, dont think it will work here your attempt at humor is short lived at best,,,, later

  1082. Kenny "Dice" Day

    From my bottom, I apologize if I’ve been too harsh Harsh Man.
    My talented latrine humor is every bit as good as your skills and atrocities in the arts of Kenpo.
    With deep symptoms of irritable bowel movements I must confess that my posting here MIGHT be short lived.
    I’ve gotten a rise out of the childish bantar between grown Masters of The Martial Arts and the consistent bragging rights as to who is the baddest of the posters herein.
    May I intice you my dear Kevin to read, enjoy, and ha ha ha to the following riddle?
    As the Jap karate guys would say….ouch!, I mean OSH!!!
    Now, without further delay, the one, the only Kenny “Dice”Day.
    Grass is green, vomit too, take a wif Harsh man it reeks of youhoo.
    Your feet are hard, your toenails also, is that raw fish or mold between your toes crow.
    Brush your teeth, gargle with Listerine, not trying to be mean but your breath as an order of gangerine.
    Take it on the chin Master Harshman, it’s all in humor but if you fuck with Day he’ll rip out your tumor.
    Have none?
    That’s fine cause Day thinks your attitude is like a cheap wine.
    It gets better with age.
    Oh, does your hygiene also?
    Come on Kevin laugh you know it’s priceless.

  1083. Kenny "Dice" Day

    Anybody interested in hiring me for your next event leave a post of interest.
    I bring my rancid bag of insults to you for a nominal fee plus expenses.
    Thanks guys.

  1084. kenny,, the only thing that will priceless will be the look on your face as you look up to the sky from the ground wondering what train hit you,,, i get it.. you a wannabe don rickles,,, trouble is don is funny,, any way insult on,,me thinks you get your jollys that way

  1085. Master Harshman,
    At least you acknowledged that I am in desperate need of being the next somebody.
    Rickles was and is an icon.
    Not many can fill his slippers.
    I would be joyous to be compared to Andy Silverstein, the original DICE.
    Heres another one for you.
    Roses are red, black belts are dirty, is Kevin Harshman trying to be flirty.
    Im looking up but not from a train hit, fact is about Harshmans Kenpo skill I don’t give a shit slick.
    I envision a burly man with a little gut who loves Kenpo as much as I love my current slut.
    I appreciate his comments but they simply made me vomit cause Ken is being harsh, man is he a comet.
    Have a lovely Kenpo day, I won’t go away cause Kenny Dice Day is here to play.
    Now will all the advocates of American Karate Kenpo type bow and move your bowels to the great Ken Harshman.

  1086. What the hell is going on here?
    I am appalled by what I have read and the slanderous lies about Ed Parker MUST stop!
    Have those of you that didn’t like “the old man” have any human decency?
    You “losers” have completely tarnished a Martial Arts legend and for what?
    How would you feel if someone went on social media and made negative and slanderous comments about a deceased member of your family.
    How would you feel?
    You are harming innocent members of the Parker family but your years worth of tasteless arguments.
    Ed Parker may have had his deficiencies like all of us.
    He may not have been perfect but he was not a bad man.
    And believe me when I tell you he was big enough, fast enough, and tough enough to handle everyone of his detractors here.
    Reading this nonsense about Ed Parker has made me sick to my stomach!
    I wish Ed, Jr. would get on here and give the few “rotten apples” a piece of his mind.
    For the detractors, Kenpo Karate in all of it’s styles and systems works.
    Ed Parker was light years ahead of his counterparts and his American Kenpo is, was, and will continue to be the preeminent self-defense of all Karate systems.
    If Ed Parker was still with us, old or not he would address those bad mouthing him here.
    I’ll ask those of you, what the hell have you accomplished in the arts?
    Have you developed a Martial Art that is practiced by hundreds of thousands?
    Or, are you just good at posting your lies and adding worthless instructional bits on YouTube?
    You criticize DVD practitioners, but post instructional on YouTube so that others can learn your methods.
    What kind of hypocrit are you?

    • “I wish Ed, Jr. would get on here and give the few “rotten apples” a piece of his mind”

      Maybe ED JR. could explain WTF is “paxtial martial arts” bs he has going….

  1087. In Libby’s newest video
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hq3DV0G1lR8

    he doesn’t even give the address to Kenpo Joe’s video, which is
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DwqDLEUe4aM

    Obviously Joe is not saying that a step through is the most devastating technique ever created. Libby is dishonest, taking that entire video on what Joe was teaching out of context.

    Not to mention, Libby just keeps talking and talking and talking. yes, sure, people in Thailand are too scared to fight you, you’ve been in street fights, etc etc, yet you can’t manage ONE video of you actually doing it. Typically ‘boxer of the mouth corners’.

  1088. Farts smell, bad breath does too, oh Harshman where are you?
    Practice those forms, strikes and kicks also, your flowere hamers not bad, but your spinning ass spread is so so sad.
    Kevin please don’t take it so Harsh, your a man not go lay in your marsh.
    Wash your kenpo pajamas and fold your black belt play with my ballies cause the ain’t ever been felt.
    I know you would like to sucker punch me with all your might, but then Dice Day would put up a fight.
    I’ll beat you with my poems and rymes, try me if you got the time.
    WHile you do your bow and arrow pose, I’ll bitch slap you across that ugly nose.
    Then as you walk around in pain, I’ll be ha ha haing cause you undies got stained.
    The trecherous stench from your yellowing teeth would give Mike Tyson the creeps.
    I truly hope that you laugh till you drop if not go spend for a hooker you male slut!

  1089. are you finished ,,yet???

  1090. Kevin,
    You have my respect.
    Took my poem lasing very well.
    All those insults were strictly for entertainment.
    I am sure you are a very capable Martial Artist with a good grasp on how to use your kenpo skill in a real threat situation.
    Thanks for taking it on the chin likes champ.

  1091. I went into the toilet all jolly and chappy, but I was faced with the aroma that made me unhappy.
    The odor was from another dimension, so fucking nasty it got my attention.
    As I tiped toed toward the stall with my hands in a stance out of the corner I was able to glance.
    There at the sink stood an imposing figure that’s why his turds were a lot bigger.
    The creator of APAK was washing his hands I feared for my life so I said “hello friend”.
    Constipation is a scary thing especially what pops out of an aging Hawaiian as whole attached to this man.
    You all know who I speak of so hold your nasal breath, the Grandmaster just took a disgusting shit.

  1092. Blobert Fibbery

    Any video of Robert Libby sparring, or even doing any technique fast with a resisting opponent even semi-realistically?

    You think for someone with soooooooooooooooooooo many street fights, this would be easy to produce.

  1093. I took nothing out of context. Please find one video of the legendary Larry Hartsell in a street fight! And he has had quite a few. How about Benny Urquidez? Paul Dalton? Your comment is absurd and follows Kenpo logic.But even if no Thais are afraid of me we know Ed Parker was, Ron Wilstein was, Steve Shaffer was, and a host of other Kenpo black belts that never uttered a peep when I publicly announced I was coming to America and gave my dates and said I would be in Los Angeles and Dallas!
    Your logic follows the insanity of Joshua Pestaner when he said I never had a motorcycle accident as there was no video of me flying off of the bike.
    Why are you Kenpo idiots so desperate to show the world how stupid you are?
    Kenpo is a cult founded by a fraud named Ed Parker and carried on by other frauds.
    https://youtu.be/1PkaPmU06kQ
    The link is to Steve Stewart, a Kenpo 9th degree and 9th under a fraud named George Dillman. Why have no Kenpo black belts called this guy out on his fraudulent teaching? How about all his fake academic degrees? I have shown Tony Collins, a fake, Ron Chapel and his sub-level 4 bullshit and his make believe PhD, and now Steve Stewart. These people are all cons and you people should be ashamed of them as opposed to protecting them. But when in a system with no integrity what can one expect?
    https://youtu.be/1PkaPmU06kQ

    • Floggbert Flabby

      “But even if no Thais are afraid of me we know Ed Parker was, Ron Wilstein was, Steve Shaffer was, and a host of other Kenpo black belts that never uttered a peep when I publicly announced I was coming to America and gave my dates and said I would be in Los Angeles and Dallas!
      Your logic follows the insanity of Joshua Pestaner when he said I never had a motorcycle accident as there was no video of me flying off of the bike.
      Why are you Kenpo idiots so desperate to show the world how stupid you are?
      Kenpo is a cult founded by a fraud named Ed Parker and carried on by other frauds.”

      And because of this you cannot possibly make any video of yourself doing any technique or sparring even slowly with a semi-resisting opponent even? LOL!! No one is buying what you are selling, bub.

  1094. On Steve Stewart from Bullshido and about 1/3 of the article.
    Issues with Steve Stewart’s credibility

    A) Dubious qualifications and credentials

    B) Pressure points and unrealistic self-defence including no-touch knockouts

    C) McDojoism

    D) Calling his teachings “MMA”

    A) Dubious qualifications

    Steve Stewart claims a long list of martial arts achievements, accreditations and related academic qualifications. (For a complete list see the appendix). However, we investigated several of his claims and found them not credible. These are the ones we found issues with:

    – Graduate of Canadian College of Acupuncturists & Compliemntary[Sic] Medicine (2003)

    – Graduate of the International College of Bio-Energetic Medicine (2005)

    – Doctorate: Medical Acupuncture & Holistic Medicine (2005)
    The above implies that he got his doctorate from “International College of Bio-Energetic Medicine”.

    Searching the Internet, I have been unable to find any website for either the “Canadian College of Acupuncturists & Complimentary Medicine” or the “International College of Bio-Energetic Medicine”. It appears that they may not exist. We were forced to ask ourselves “how many genuine universities don’t have websites?”; ask yourself the same question.

    Hoping to clarify the situation we contacted Mr Stewart asking for clarification and substantiation of his medical qualifications. His response:
    From : Steve Stewart
    Sent : 04 June 2006 21:18:21
    To : KickCatcher
    Subject : Re: Query

    If you want verification come visit me and I will be glad to show you bothj[Sic] from
    a Martial Arts point of view and a medical point of view

    I am not the typical idiot martial artist and am insulted by these comments

    Who are you to ask me………………

    Get a life
    Mr Stewart is not the only person to have ever reacted angrily to our enquires, Radford Davis* (“Ashida Kim”) is another good example. Maybe it’s a defence mechanism.

    We cannot say for sure that his credentials, as posted on his websites and quoted elsewhere are fake, grossly misrepresented or otherwise intentionally deceptive. However, you may wish to consider the likelihood that if Mr Stewart had bonafide qualifications he would get the names of the institutions consistently wrong. Or, if the institutions as named do actually exist, the likelihood that Mr Stewart’s biography is the ONLY place on the Internet where they are found by Google – no college website, no adverts, no directory listings, no other acupuncture practitioners listing these institutions.

    The General feeling around here is that it is extremely unlikely that anyone, including Mr Stewart, would have bonafide qualifications for a doctorate from an academic institution which otherwise does not come up on an Internet search. With this in mind we regard Mr Stewart’s academic credentials as extremely suspect.

  1095. On Ron Chapel. Just as Ed Parker promoted himself many Kenpo people just slap on belts and make up college degrees/ Seems Ed started a trend. And granted there are many other frauds in other systems.
    While I generally loathe cross-board business, I direct you to this:

    http://www.martialtalk.com/forum/sho…d=1#post394059

    Before I started teh kung foo, I trained in a small kenpo group. I was curious about this SL-4 business for a couple of reasons: claims about pressure point techniques and anti-grappling, for instance.

    In the thread above, someone simply asked where Chapel’s PhD in “anatomical physics” comes from. He wouldn’t answer. This expanded into a discussion about the credentials of his martial “science” university.

    Ron Chapel is a proven EPAK senior. But is he an accredited PhD? Where’s the “science” in Sub-Level Four Kenpo? Where does it really come from? He doesn’t have any videos and technical discussions seem to degenerate into insults and Dianetics-style speudoscientific loggorhea?

    Clyde? Anybody? WTF?

  1096. And what would he say? All he is doing is living off of his father’s name. He has no skills. I have seen some of his stuff and he is horrible.
    How would he change things? The videos are out there and Ed Parker Sr. was a joke.

  1097. I come here to learn and only read crap, what do you guys just yap, yap, and yap.
    The video of Stewart looks like bullshit to me if someone just snuck him he will gleefully see.
    Lots of critics and pretenders here, why waste down when you are all in fear.
    I’ve made up my mind after research and pride, Kenpo Karate is as pathetic as slime.
    All these guys do is stand there and talk, while their scripted attacker kisses ass like a hawk.
    Let’s see a Kenpo expert defend against wild punches, they couldn’t cause Kenpo has no defence for wild shots in bunches.
    Stop the arguments someone just fight, I wanna see who is really the baddest on this forum and site.
    Which one of you has to balls to street fight, if none stop talking and call it a night!

  1098. The best martial artist on this site is Robert Libbly, barnone, hands down, I’m 110.43% accurate in my belief here. I spoke personally to Bruce Lee, Ed Parker, Chuck Lidell, Cynthia Rothrock, and Jean Claude VanDamme, and they all agree; Libby has personally beat them up, and that was from a distance, using his empty force. Who do you think taught Dillman? Yellow Bamboo? Ashida Kim? It is obvious. Who do you think trains the FBI, CIA, NSA, IRS, DEA, ATF, military, and police forces? It is obvious! Garfield is clearly an advanced student, barely second to Libby, and is playing dumb to draw us in, like a trapdoor spider, then pouncing on us, his prey. Libby and Garfield have many videos of themselves doing advanced, deadly techniques, but we wouldn’t understand and we couldn’t replicate them anyway since our bodies and minds are not as well-developed. If you are looking to challenge Libby and Garfield, I beg you, do not. I know one person who did, and Libby used Monkey Grabs the Peach, simultaneously while Garfield used Lady Works the Lute, to render the attacker completely brain dead, and that was when they were attacked with a gun! They are deadly and not to be messed with.

  1099. Just the way you started your post shows what an immature fool you are by using baby names that a 4 year-old would not use. And I made that offer and they all folded.
    As to nobody buying what I am selling you are wrong. I get a lot of positive feedback on my videos and people are happy that somebody is telling the truth about the vast amount of fraud in traditional martial arts. And Kenpo is a major player in martial arts fraud.
    And as to sparring I do not play your tippy tap fag tag. If I spar there is contact and nobody at 140 lbs wants to spar me. And as I said before I challenged Kenpo already and all the Kenpo posers folded, including Ed Parker, the “Honolulu street fighter, himself.
    Now why don’t you move on and see iif you can a DVD black belt that is not worth shit!

  1100. Below are the types of comments I get on my videos, and some are from Kenpo people! Many like my videos and want more. But as per usual my detractors, the Kenpo Kult, hide behind screen names, never have the balls to do their own video, use infantile names for me, and can never add an analytical comment.
    But please keep doing it as you show what a real joke Kenpo is and its followers!
    “Just watched this video. it was on point. Your videos are worth studying. #19”
    Alexandre Kieffer1 week ago
    another great video? #19
    Coming up thru the system one realizes that most of it is a bunch of fancy nonsense that would never work in a real fight so we focused on basic self defense stuff that you could rely on, in other words we would learn the technique but put a realistic touch to it if you will.? #18

    DubVinC2 months ago
    A dose of bitter reality is the cure for a lot of martial arts personality cults. Good man Robert, Its not a popular stance But educating newbies on the merciless nature of real combat is a worthy endeavor. Keep it up!? #17

  1101. Nananananana!
    My stuffs better than your stuff, my skills are better than yours.
    I just better cause your a bed wetter.
    Now, ya all keep up with the shit cause I’m gonna use some of it as materials for my new shows.

  1102. Pingback: Ed Drugs In Addison Airport Texas – Erectile Dysfunction Drug Information

  1103. I have 17 year training and experience in Sambo.
    Also compete Sambo, and provide many corporation with security.
    Many time have to establish use of Sambo prevent problem.
    Also, have known how other form of defense train and is.
    Kenpo is too much, fancy, and little time practice real skill to work in time of need.
    If cut down to less, some of Kenpo no so bad.
    Sambo also must train condition body for strength and endurance.
    Not see lot of Kenpo do this.
    Spend too much time on back forth hit and defend static movements no time dedicate to be in fitness shape that also important to execute when real situation happen.
    Not here to be include in discussions and verbal fighting.
    Just point to truth.
    Kenpo very good for children, discipline so they study in school get good grade.
    Also, very nice to look Kenpo expert perform dance form or maybe partner moves as it look beautiful.
    Kenpo not best system for combat.
    Thank you respectfully.

  1104. I’m a relative nobody in the Martial Arts world. I study, I train every day, and I truly love fighting and martial arts (There’s a difference. Simply fighting anyone can learn with enough guts and a willingness to shrug off pain. Martial arts requires love and discipline.)
    As for my brothers, that’s another story. One’s a 4th Dan in Kyokushin Kai Karate while the other one’s a street fighter. They face off regularly, it’s fun to watch.
    Mills Crenshaw typed that Ed Parker took on 4 to 7 guys with tyre-irons, bats, knives, etc. I’m sorry Mills, and with all respect to your age and the exuberance of your verbosity, that is physically impossible without one or another form of weapon yourself. I knew a man who was a bouncer in a club in a place here called Sunnyside, now in spite of it’s name Sunnyside’s pretty dark. It’s run by Nigerian organized crime and he was pretty much in their good books so you can be guaranteed he was more than an experienced fighter, he was an experienced killer.
    Anyway, he was ex-military, Jujutsu black belt, and he studied Tae-kwon do.
    One night he was laid into by for guys with base-ball bats… that’s the reason I knew him… past tense. Real fights don’t happen one at a time. If you’re facing a single opponent it’s most likely go to ground, multiple opponents want you on the ground while they remain standing. Real fights require strategy, luck and guts. No martial artist who’s worth their salt allows themselves to be drawn into a fight if they can help it, only fighters, brawlers and hooligans go that rout. It’s the unavoidable fights, those once or twice in a life-time fights, that Martial Artists ensure they are prepared for.
    I’m proudly both, and I come from both, a fighter and a Martial Artist.
    Anyone who doubts this post can gladly spend some time in my country. It’s akin to Russia except hot. It’s dangerous, it’s ideal ground for real fights, and it’s a challenge. South Africa, Pretoria. A place where 80% of the population would gladly kill you for the clothing on your back and the money in your wallet. Perfect testing ground for anyone who claims they know what a real fight is like…
    Thank you for reading.
    Honor and respect… and challenge.

  1105. Jared,
    Excellent post from someone who certainly seems to know, from experience what he’s talking about.
    Im sure Robert would agree.
    Come back with mote real life experiences as some of the fairy tale believers here need to get it right.
    Ill look forward to more so please come back.

  1106. WOW! So now you go so low as to insult a 2nd generation 7th degree Kenpo black belt- GOD you are desperate!
    So why won’t you come out from the shadows Gollum and show who you are? Everything you say others do, yet they do not, you do. You are scuM. You are a typical Kenpo Kult member.
    How about a video you coward?

  1107. Also, you can find tom very easily. Look up a movie with Oscar winner Adrian Brodie called “The Jacket.” Tom wrote it. Nobody is hiding but you you asshole!

  1108. THE ONLY COWARD IS YOU AND YOUR KENPO KUPKAKES!
    At least I have videos! And you keep saying I am hiding. From who? You? You stole a guy’s name from Utah and never come out from the shadows. And you twisted what Tom Bleecker said you scumbag. You are a typical kult follower- when in doubt lie!
    Everything you have posted makes you look like an idiot. The only thing worse is having to look at the parade of Kenpo charltans starting with Edmund Kealoah Parker!
    You are a coward, an instigator, and a worm! Now come out from the shadows you pussy. And as to me being in a mental hospital you’d better look in the mirror punk! Your logic and that of many others on this thread is completely psychotic.
    So who are you coward?

  1109. I’ve never heard of a “Robert Libby”, and I am 2nd generation and have 72 black belts. Now, I have heard of Garfield though – he is, in actuality, a green beret equivalent in Malaysia.

  1110. Still looking for an impressive Robert Libby video. So far, all I’ve heard is talking/wheezing and barely moving slow motion.

  1111. Mirror mirror by the stall who caca smells worse of all?
    Is it Doug or Kenpo krap, or just the blowhards here the bunch of saps.
    Old aging yellers continue to bark same old same old it reeks of Martial Arts farts.
    The only end to this ancient debate is for all of you to fight out the hate.
    I’m in the cellar working on new material cause Dice Day is for real ya know.
    So….old men of this forum went to the pantry to look for their meal of the day, along comes another argument so totally boring that the stench of redundancy made me take my pee pee and yell to these creeps you see the following statement from me, yours truly.
    Fight or shut your traps old men the story is as old as my bowel movement from 2010…so when my friends?

  1112. Libby probably never even trained past a blue belt level. Obvious from the way he moves.

  1113. True, that’s why Ed Parker, Ron Wilstein, and others have all dodged me All you Kenpo people are such jerk offs! You think looking “impressive” or slapping your gi means you can fight. Go stand up to Cabbage Corriea, Tank Abbot or many others who never do forms or your bullshit fag tag- but they can fight. Kenpo is a pussy art for posers.
    Where is your video KupKake!

  1114. I took up kenpo for three years and quit when it failed me in a street fight.
    Passed the tests, looked exceptional in class, and even did extremely well sparring semi contact.
    But, when the s hit the fan I could not deal with a semi drunk street fighter.
    Wise up guys!
    You know that kenpo only excellent in forms and sets training.
    Name one kenpo practitioner that has excelled at kickboxing or MMA.
    And, if there are a small handful they never use kenpo to win.
    I did not come here to trash, argue, or disrespect.
    Facts are facts and the reality of your disagreements are that only a few persons here have told the absolute truth on the topic.
    Is kenpo a total wash?
    Absolutely not.
    But until someone has proof or video of a kenpo advocate winning in full contact, MMA or better yet in an actual street encounter kenpo will remain a system of hundreds upon hundreds of ineffective techniques.

  1115. I started kenpo 6 years ago and never quit and have avoided street fights.
    I passed the tests, but didn’t care about looking exceptional in class, and even did extremely well sparring semi contact.
    But, when the s hit the fan I could probably deal with a semi drunk person pretty easily.
    Wise up guys – Libby and others are silly, disgruntled goofballs who were jealous of Ed Parker’s skill and success.
    You know that kenpo is not only excellent in forms and sets training, but also in theory of movement, weapons, sparring, and teaching.
    Naming one kenpo practitioner that has excelled at kickboxing or MMA is an easy thing to do, such as Lidell and others, even can extend “kenpo to any type of karate/kung fu background, although we recognize UFC-stuff is a sport, with rules, steroid use, referees, etc., so tend to discount it.
    And, the saying, “if there are a small handful they never use kenpo to win” is silly, since in times of stress, martial artists know that their “textbook” moves will never look like that in real life, even with jiujitsu, let alone kenpo.
    I did not come here to trash, argue, or disrespect, unlike Libby and his girlfriends.
    Facts are facts and the reality of your disagreements are that only a few persons here have told the absolute truth on the topic, and Libby is not one of them.
    Is kenpo a total wash?
    Absolutely not.
    But until someone has proof or video of Libby or a Libby advocate winning in full contact, MMA or better yet in an actual street encounter, the lame pseudo-critics will remain a ship of fools.

  1116. Wrong on all counts. The only guy from KENPO is this “Wonderboy” guy and he is really talented, but he uses Karate kicking as from any other system. He never uses a single Kenpo technique.
    Liddel is from KEMPO and never uses it in the ring. Please show me one video of him using a Kempo technique. He uses a great takedown defense with punching and kicking and some very good ground skills. But he is mostly a puncher.
    You are a typical Kenpo acolyte who cannot face the fact the Little Eddie had zero skills other than conning people. Please submit one video where he even looks like a passable green belt! All video evidence proves he had absolutely no skills. And his techniques show he knows nothing about fighting.
    Sorry goofy, but I have about 16,000 hits and 83 subscribers and growing. Parker was a clown and his followers fools who got conned.
    He wouldn’t fight me. chen style said Vic Leroux knows about the incident as does Tom Bleecker and his student. So do many others. But many stay mute as they are in on the con.

    • Libby is clearly jealous of Ed Parker’s success. Libby, an old opinionated fatazz with no students or anything verifiable and apparently cannot make a video of himself doing anything impressive.

  1117. Haven’t written anything in a long time.

    Libby was not a first tier Kenpo student and instructor. Nothing wrong with that, but all the talk of Kenpo he says is from the version he received. Libby says it all the time: he was not taught by Parker.

    So you say that there are men that say your claim to “fame” is true about challenging Parker. Why are they still fond of Parker’s life and talents he passed on even after and in old age?

    The response most definitely will be: “because that’s what cults do!”. It’s humorous.

    I cheer for the Redskins even though they lose a lot of games. I’m a part of a cult? Some of my favorite fighters have had devastating losses, but I still admire them. I’m a part of a cult?

    I guess any small group of enthusiasts for any activity could be called a cult if outsiders think it’s strange. All martial artists and self defense practitioners have their cults I guess. Even Libby has his cult. He is very proud of his 83 or 85 followers and 16k hits…… Parker had millions without social media hype. Get over it.

    I see Libby you liked Crenshaw High 5 from Chuck Sullivan(IKCA Kenpo). Chuck is 1st tier Kenpo. He is one of few that know the real Kenpo and still teaching and training at 80+ years old. He moves still very well.

    Sullivan and LeRoux and others from the beginning felt the version of Kenpo you learned was a watered down form. This is accurate but also inaccurate. If you learned and trained even the “watered down” version of Kenpo and challenged the ideas and tested against resisting opponents= you probably will do quite fine if something happened. Simply fighting back gives anyone a fighter’s chance.

    Alight change of subject: I trained with Chuck and Vic a few weeks ago. Chuck gave me some pointers and corrections in our system. I got lucky to work some trapping with Vic. Mannnn, he has some amazing skills and sensitivity. In our IKCA system we have elements of JKD concepts, but not JKD drilling. I see for that it is mega important to have a competent instructor teaching you that and feeding you the sensitivity. But do I feel like I’m disadvantaged? Absolutely not! My Kenpo training is very well equipped. However, I got a Wing Chun instructor now as well as a Jujitsu instructor! I Iove learning!… Not very cult like.

    Oh and just a reminder: techniques (long rehearsed ones) don’t work. Work on the basics more(short techniques): those save you.

  1118. I would have made a video of me kicking Ed Parker’s ass but he chickened out.
    You see you can call me all the baby names you want and prove what total assholes so many Kenpo people are now, but facts are facts,
    1. Ed ducked the Milo Savage fight
    2. Ed would not fight me
    3. Ed has never had a street fight in his life according to Bart Vale, an actual fighter
    4. Ed lied about fighting 5 guys with knives and clubs
    5. Ed gave belts to those that were important and kissed his ass- do you really believe Elvis deserved even a 1st. degree let alone an 8th!
    6. Ed was hut down for tax fraud and evasion and could have gone to jail
    These are all facts. But the one you can never shake is I backed him down like the coward and fraud he was. So go choke on that one and see who is jealous!
    Where is your video KupKake? At least show who I am and do not hide behind a keyboard. Oh, but I forgot, you study kenpo so you are used to being a chickenshit, a liar, and learning a useless system.
    Where is a video from any of you Kunts?

    • “At least show who I am and do not hide behind a keyboard.”

      Then where’s your video actually fighting again douche boy? You just stand there doing totally unrealistic things while your opponent just stands there.

      • Willie Chirino

        Hey Tag scum, who are you brown noser?
        This is a late response but like bird droppings it’s never too late to clean it up.
        You should call yourself…TagFag.
        The only douche is you!!!
        Your breaths stinks, you have soiled boxers, your body odor is repulsive, and your private “sacks” hang to your knees your so old and ancient you…bitch.
        You should have left Libby alone.
        The man came here to help with practical advice.
        What skills do you have?
        Oh, that’s right you can’t wipe your rear end cause your as slow as molasses.
        Crawl back into your dirty house.

  1119. Blah, blah, blah. How can you use so many words and say absolutely nothing? All you ever sound like is an infomercial for Kenpo.
    Chuck, to be honest, was never that good. Vic had skills. But you have zero JKD in Kenpo. Joshua, you are a liar and delusional cunt. You admitted you lied and played games
    And when a chance to make money and show off kenpo came you ran with your tail between your legs. I have forgotten more about fighting than Ed Parker ever knew. And Chuck is “first generation” and not “first tier.’ First tier was Scott Loring, Larry Hartsell, Dan Inosanto, and some others. You, as always, are delusional.
    Where is a counter video to mine big mouth? And not one of somebody doing a BJJ technique. The answer is you cannot do one as my teaching is solid and you know jack shit.
    Like Ed Parker you ducked a fight like a typical EPAK chickenshit. You are a tempest in a tea cup!

    • “I have forgotten more about fighting than Ed Parker ever knew”

      And history has forgotten you, Blobert, because you’ve done absolutely nothing with any martial art. No students, no school, no record, absolutely nothing. Oh, but you got a couple YouTube clicks. Congrats pink belt.

  1120. Also, as to “watered down” go ask Vic Leroux and Chuck Sullivan where the IKKA Interschool trophy pretty much lived. It stayed at Santa Monica. We beat everybody in the system and regularly. The only thing “watered down” is the fluid on somebody’s brain that is telling you this horseshit. And they did the same stuff as us except we had Larry Hartsell, Scott Loring, and Dan Inosanto. They had one big gun in Steve Sanders and also had George Quinones and Carl Schalyo as far as the street. But there was not a shred of difference in the teaching. If they are saying they got some different stuff they are full of shit. And I sparred against Vic Leroux plenty of times.
    Joshua, I would not believe a word that came out of your punk mouth anyway as all you are is a punk instigator and liar with a bad case of “little man’s complex.”
    Hey, ever hook up with Irish Billy Mack or do you still get the shakes thinking about it? You are a punk to the nth degree!

  1121. Also as to “first tier- moron, when I was on the Ed Parker fighting I was 15- the youngest person to ever be on it. Everybody else was at least 4 years older than me so I was a kid fighting grown men. One day Larry Hartsell asked me to go to a bar. I had to tell him I was only 16. He thought due to my levels I was 21. So go choke on your pseudo-history Joshua.
    Below are is the type of comments I get a lot of. Where are your videos Joshua? Or from any of you posers?
    “Isn’t it a shame that martial arts went from a system to help someone protect themselves and to build self confidence and health; to now being a large draw card for the type of people who want to take advantage of others trying to learn.”
    “You are correct, a bite at a time is how it always starts. I am amazed at how normally ‘intelligent’ people can get fooled by such things – but it happens.
    Videos like this are good, if it saves one person and puts them in the right direction – it is worth it.?”

    “awesome as always thanks”?

    The problem is you can carp all you want- Kenpo sucks and Ed Parker was a fraud. It is a quick buck con game for fools.

    • “Kenpo sucks and Ed Parker was a fraud. It is a quick buck con game for fools.”

      Yeah, clearly people interested in self defense should go train with fat old men in Cambodia, or wherever you are. That is the true formula to be an expert fighter.

  1122. Also as to “first tier- moron, when I was on the Ed Parker fighting I was 15- the youngest person to ever be on it. Everybody else was at least 4 years older than me so I was a kid fighting grown men. One day Larry Hartsell asked me to go to a bar. I had to tell him I was only 16. He thought due to my levels I was 21. So go choke on your pseudo-history Joshua.
    Below are is the type of comments I get a lot of. Where are your videos Joshua? Or from any of you posers?
    “Isn’t it a shame that martial arts went from a system to help someone protect themselves and to build self confidence and health; to now being a large draw card for the type of people who want to take advantage of others trying to learn.”
    “You are correct, a bite at a time is how it always starts. I am amazed at how normally ‘intelligent’ people can get fooled by such things – but it happens.
    Videos like this are good, if it saves one person and puts them in the right direction – it is worth it.?”

    “awesome as always thanks”?

    The problem is you can carp all you want- Kenpo sucks and Ed Parker was a fraud. It is a quick buck con game for fools.

  1123. Truth About Libbly

    Here is the truth about Robert Libbly. Forget kenpo. Libbly would get beat up by Paxtial Arts, by Ed Parker Jr., see https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t0d5qZNfzfM for what would DESTROY Robert Libbly. Prove me wrong!!

  1124. So where are any videos of this Robert Libby person doing stuff on a resisting opponent? All I see is this Garfelt girlfriend of his

  1125. Hey you ahole kenpo kupcake rainbow belt– don’t pick on Libby. He’d twist you up like a pretzel and then put another hole in your head with his elbow.

    FACTS.

  1126. Libby forgets that techniques are demos, are katas, are ideal forms. They are starting points, not end points. Ranting about ‘this technique wouldn’t work exactly as taught in a real street fight’ is absolutely white belt beginner talk. You are supposed to make the technique more and more and more realistic as you progress. For example, Raining Lance. It is an idea, presented in an ideal form. Sure, make it more and more and more realistic, stab repeatedly, change your timing, add some more attackers, add plastic bottles and train and stuff besides a floor, train in street clothes, etc. In short, Libby is arguing a complete fuking strawman, because he is clearly jealous of Ed Parker and kenpo’s success.

  1127. Don’t pick on Frogbutt Libbly. It isn’t nice to pick on mentally handicapped people.

  1128. Where is a video of you doing anything? I have already challenged you tools and you all run away!

  1129. Are you Kenpo people insane all the time? All you do is prove I am right.

  1130. Let me set the record straight.
    My name is Saul Rubin and I posted my comment on September 16th at 4:51 PM.
    At 5:14 PM someone posted under Saul Libby and used my exact post with some additions to make fun of or embarrass Robert Libby of this forum.
    My word to this individual is to cease and desist your actions that are obviously meant to link me to the arguments happening here.
    I posted my personal opinion courteosly and with respect for everyone here.
    Whoever you are I do not appreciate your act of plagiarism and added negative commentary.
    Heed my warning.
    DON’T DO IT AGAIN.

  1131. This is in response to “bad Kenpo techs 22”.

    Libby says some very scewed things about training demos and then some things excellently.

    The knife fighting clips of Kenpo you posted can be good or bad. It’s a seminar setting(things don’t get down to the nitty gritty usually as you are showing things to a diverse crowd and hoping they learn something). You don’t know if he trains at a higher octane like you showed later on in a highlight clip of the libre fighting systems. However, do you think the Libre guys start and always train at that intensity? So it’s just uninformed talk really. If you don’t like it, great.

    Professor David James. Mr. 10 Commandments of Self Defense. He’s very good. A Professor Vee top student. But do you know the background of Prof. Vee’s Arnis-Jujitsu? Here’s a link in case you don’t: http://www.bullshido.org/Vee_Arnis_Jitsu

    Notice the Kenpo?

    Also notice another top student of his: Professor Moses Powell. This is a man, Libby has called fake in the past. Professor Vee had said that Powell had passed him and was now the teacher. If you respect David James there’s quite a few other guys in the same league. And Kenpo/Kempo has its fingerprints all over martial arts practice.

    In NYC you had a lot of doubters in martial arts. They tested/fought instructors. They had to be proven. The environment of many arts in NYC were geared towards what works in the street and even included prison. Guys would come out of prison and back to the dojos and teach what they saw work and not work. A variety of martial arts can work, but is ultimately up to the students learning. And of course instructors passing on appropriate and good training. Which leads me to the last thing I want to say.

    Libby says it fantastically at the end of the clip. If you’re not getting hurt, getting bumps, getting cuts and bleeding: YOU’RE NOT REALLY TRAINING. That is very accurate. If you don’t have things happening you are unaware of the realities of real combat. Doesn’t mean to break and bleed every session, but it’s there or available.

    • Okay Joshua, it says Kenpo Karate, but whose Kenpo Karate? Bart Vale? The Tracys? There are many Kenpo practitioners and styles so once again your post is meaningless. You mentioned Watered down”kenpo. We ll Bart Vale said Ed Parker never had a fight in his life an Parker watered down Kenpo. So you will have to be far more specific than your usual sloppy style of trying to elucidate people.
      When will you spar Irish Billy Mack punk? Where is a video from you? When can I submit mt cat’s video to the IKCA for her black belt?

      • Libbly wrote

        “When will you spar Irish Billy Mack punk? Where is a video from you? When can I submit mt cat’s video to the IKCA for her black belt?

        Where are your videos? Where are the police reports and surveillance video of your 10,000 street fights in the back alleys of Laos, Cambodia, Botswanna, or wherever you are?

  1132. I ALWAYS LOVE HOW YOU LIE TO MAKE A POINT. JUST BECAUSE A TECHNIQUE SHARES SOMETHING DOES NOT MAKE IT KENPO!
    I NEVER called Moses Powell a fake because I know damn little about him. All I know is that he is a New York guy and famous. I believe he does Ju Jitsu and I think he is in the Bronx. But I could be wrong on that.
    You Kenpo Klowns are always latching onto anything to try and prove your point that Kenpo works. Steve Shaffer tried it with Richard Bustillo and it was laughable. Now you are trying it. Where is your video punk?
    When will you spar with Irish Billy Mack you fucking coward? AT least I have been in the ring. I took my lumps to learn. Joshua, you are such a joke as is Kenpo. If my cat does some Kenpo moves can she get a belt from the IKCA if I put it on a DVD? She has a real Tiger’s claw you know!

  1133. “In 1983, he discarded the Kenpo katas in favor of Arnis and later adopted the name, Vee Arnis Jitsu. Later, he approved the addition of Muay Thai boxing techniques, making the art more powerful and effective.”

    Please note that he DUMPED KENPO and replacing it with Muay Thai made his art more “powerful and effective.” All he ever has was some of Kenpo’s forms/katas.
    Here’s the link DUMMY!
    http://www.maotw.com/gmg/v/veejitsu.html?trk=profile_certification_title

  1134. Professor Powell passed on a while back.
    And, he was a very bad man.
    Powell and underlings like Sugar Crosson could all fight too.
    Dave James is the real deal.
    Even has had top combat experts and Krav pros come to him for refund street training tactics.
    I hope this topic doesn’t put the late Professor Powell with the Parker beef.
    Powell was a proven commodity.
    His stuff worked and he used it on the streets of New York plenty.

  1135. Prof. Powell and the system he passed on was amazing. He made a huge impact in NYC.

    Libby, you get excited easily. Professor Vee got rid of the “Kenpo katas.” The katas did not work into the rest of the flow of his system. However, many movements he kept and tweaked techniques. Which in my opinion is what he or anyone should do. Make it work for you. Professor Vee pulled from many styles. His students would do the same. It always changed.

    Professor Powell put forms into his his fighting system. They are called the PI forms. There are some similarities to Kenpo forms, but still quite unique. Why did he add forms after learning from Professor Vee and seeing him pull them out? I would think he saw some kind of value in it. And you or no one can ever say he conned people and was chasing pocket books. He taught in the inner city with many troubled young men and helped them find their ways to being great men.

    The PI forms are similar in nature to Kenpo forms in that they are a way of teaching different movements and techniques. But a practitioner is not being taught that that is how a real life threat is going to go down. You learn a variety of motion to be able to unload when needed and be as spontaneous as possible

  1136. In every Martial Arts their are those who just don’t get, those who give up and those who should give up because a specific Martial Art or Martial Arts Instructor is just not right for them. However their are those who do get it, those who never give up, work hard and attain a high level of skill and understanding in a given Martial Art.

    If someone feels it necessary to try and become famous for being a critic of a Martial Arts legend, they are truly pathetic, if the only way they can sell the garbage they are putting forth is by attacking an inspirational legend who has passed away, they are a special kind of pathetic. Their is more to Kenpo then those who dabbled in it for a year or two will ever fathom, If you are happy with what you know or are doing now by all means stick with it but if your interested in one of the most effective and brutal combat systems ever created find a qualified Instructor and make sure he is OK with sparring full contact and really explore the system yourself instead listening to cowards who run their mouth about a man who passed away but never had the testicular fortitude to say anything when he was alive.

    • I’m not sure I’d classify Robert Libby as a critic, because that denotes some level of maturity and honesty. I’d more classify him as a very jealous and petty hypocrite, who holds other martial arts to double-standards and moves goalposts a lot. Apparently no one can even vouch for his martial arts. Sad really.

  1137. Kenpo served me well in my over 10 years of Military service in the US ARMY. I taught it to various Military services during Operation Iraqi Freedom and it served my fellow brothers and sisters in arms well. Mike Pick taught Kenpo to 10th Special Forces Group for over a decade and to many other elite units if the system was worthless many of us would not be alive today but yet here we are. Taking one look at you Robert Libby and it is obvious your not the kind of guy who trains hard, you broke a sweat in your videos just from sitting down rambling about how you got beat up after taking up Kenpo for three years. Kenpo is really not for people like you, you know cowards who bad mouth the dearly departed, it is for warriors scholars. Lots of people have dabbled in Kenpo and sampled other Martial Arts and found their calling in the FMAs or with Silat or Tai Chi Chuan and so on, that is fine, American Kenpo is not for everyone but for those who can and do make it work it is the most all-inclusive and updated self-protection systems available. I have been able to hold my own with KENPO against highly trained practitioners from many different Martial Arts but I can totally understand why a “talker” would have problems if he tried to apply it, you see just because you pay for lessons and put on the uniform does not mean the System is going to magically defeat your enemies for you, your going to have to put in the blood, sweat and tears just like any other martial art.

  1138. The biggest problem we have with the internet is that keyboard warriors can say anything from the safety of their home in another country and they never have to back it up.

    If you got in my face and told me Kenpo is worthless and would never work, I could offer you a match and see who stops breathing first but from the internet the best we hear is people asking other people to show videos of themselves fighting someone other than the loud mouth keyboard warrior critic themselves.

    This is the internet so the very fact that some coward is acting like a tough guy is proof of his cowardice, present a video where you are stepping to one of the many well known Kenpo Seniors and tell them that Kenpo is worthless and then back it up by owning them in a fight. You cannot because Kenpo is not worthless and deep down your too afraid to actually do anything but use the internet to be a keyboard warrior.

  1139. 1. Robert Libby by his own admission never studied Kenpo beyond three years.

    2. Robert Libby had already gotten beat up on the street by his own admission and quit Kenpo before Ed Parker evolved and founded what we call American Kenpo.

    3. Robert Libby claimed he was a great Kenpo fighter when he was only a teenager yet he admits to getting beat up in a street fight which means he was only a great fighter in his own mind.

    4. Children under the age of 18 were taught a watered down version of Kenpo in the old days so they would not accidentally kill someone, Robert Libby had already quit Kenpo before he turned 18 thus he only ever learned a watered down version of the primitive Kenpo that Ed Parker was teaching in the early years.

    5. Robert Libby had many opportunities to voice his opinions while Ed Parker was alive but he never did until he moved all the way to the Philippines and well after Ed Parker passed away and only via computer while demonstrating on someone that he openly admits is a child who has no training. Does that not speak volumes for what he really is?

  1140. So let’s tear the lies down one at a time:
    !. I studied Kenpo about 6 years at the Santa Monica school. In fact it is Ed Parker who studied under Chow directly for about 3 years or less when you figure what his age was and then going into the Coast Guard, which took away from his time with Chow. Then he went to BYU in Utah. And it was Ed and his cronies that promoted Ed to 5th Degree and 10th and many believe Chow never gave Ed a 1st when he was wearing one. And video evidence supports that Ed was a horrible martial artist.
    2. This is true but yes, I was beaten in the street one time by somebody that was an adult when I was a kid so you are misstating what I stated and never gave those facts out.
    3. This whole idea of “watered down Kenpo” is a figment of an insane imagination and no such term had ever been used. This “watered down Kenpo” turned out the best fighters in its history as in Scott Loring, Steve Sanders, Larry Hartsell, and Dan Inosanto. Since then there has not been anybody close.What we learned was the vastly more effective Kenpo that had few forms and no idiotic techniques as in having 6 different techniques for a handshake which is totally asinine. Just adding on countless idiotic techniques like “Twist of Fate” does not make Kenpo better, but rather weaker and foolish.
    4. I was in the adult classes and learned everything they learned so you are lying once again. I trained right along side Russ Fineman, Albert Cornejo, David Laredo. Jim Demecke, Tom Howard, and others. In the 1960s the only kid’s classes were on Saturdays so you are delusional or just lying. I feel you are just making things up to fit your perverted ideas as to what Kenpo was and is.
    5. The Philippines? I have never been in the Philippines in my life- I live in Thailand.
    I have no training? I have trained under the best people around. I taught for Paul Edward Dalton for 2 years. I taught ar Chuck Epperson’s Kenpo Karate for about 1 1/2 years and NOBODY questioned my abilities. I taught at a Paul Vunak affiliate for 2 years called PFS of Ridgecrest and NOBODY questioned my abilities or knowledge, and that includes Paul Vunak! Duane Yoshito Walden, a Senior Full Instructor who used to call me Sifu! And just because Garfield has no training does not mean in any way I don’t. Most comments in response to my videos have been praising what I do and laughing at Kenpo bullshit! I have trained under the Urquidez Brothers, Rickson Gracie, Dan Inosanto, Larry Hartsell, Johnny Flores, Leo Wang, Jimmy W. Woo, and many other talented people
    6. So who are you? Like many on this thread all you are is a keyboard liar! What is your name? Who did you train under? What service were you in? What was your MOS? How long were you in Iraq? Like so many that post on this you merely make things and hope nobody reads the prior posts which makes you a coward and a liar! I doubt you served.
    7. Why I am talking now, as I already explained, it is all the martial arts frauds. It is appalling! Steve Edwards of Kenpo, Tony Collins, John LaTourette, and others. People being promoted by submitting a DVD is a scam and a travesty! Even champion Bart Vale has referred to modern Kenpo “giving out belts like candy.” He has also said the time they give them out in is absurd. And he said Ed Parker has no business teaching fighting as he has never fought. He openly stated Parker never had a street fight in his life despite the lies of Ed Parker and whores like Mills Crenshaw who also gave himself a 3rd degree.
    7. Kenpo black belts I have backed down with my “watered down Kenpo” include the LEGENDARY Ed Parker. SGM 10th degree, as admitted to by Tom Bleecker, Ron Wilstein, 3rd degree, and Steve Shaffer, 4th degree, who is a delusional coward who runs to a coward and liar like Joshua Pestaner for support.
    So all you did is make things up and were to stupid and lazy not to do any fact checking. You are a pathetic little worm, but that is normal for Kenpo!
    And even after my spat with Ed Parker Vic Leroux told me while on the phone with him that Ed Parker wanted wanted me and Paul Dalton back (I was calling Vic from Paul Dalton’s house about somebody that wanted me to promote tehm) due to how good we were and valuable to Kenpo! Ed Parker also wanted to make amends for past wrongs according to Vic. To quote Paul Dalton “You tell hat fat pineapple picking son of a bitch to go fuck himself.”
    So all you ts a stream on tje Internet who does not have the balls to even post who you really are- a typical Kenpo Kunt!

    • “I studied Kenpo about 6 years at the Santa Monica school.”

      Let’s see some certificates.

      “And video evidence supports that Ed was a horrible martial artist.”

      At least he has some video evidence, unlike you. What does that make you?

      “techniques like “Twist of Fate” does not make Kenpo better, but rather weaker and foolish.”

      But still much better than your living room kung foolery with Garfield, pretending you’re a warrior.

      “I have no training? I have trained under the best people around.”

      Certificates please. Videos please.

      “And just because Garfield has no training does not mean in any way I don’t.”

      It means the techniques you present are only on a noncombative person and with no power behind them, something which you regularly criticize kenpo for doing. Hypocrite much?

      “I have trained under the Urquidez Brothers, Rickson Gracie, Dan Inosanto, Larry Hartsell, Johnny Flores, Leo Wang, Jimmy W. Woo, and many other talented people”

      Certificates? Video?

      ” I doubt you served.”

      I doubt you really understood what Kenpo was teaching you. In fact, I know you did not really learn a thing.

      “So all you ts a stream on tje Internet who does not have the balls to even post who you really are- a typical Kenpo Kunt!”

      All you’re engaging in, Libby, is a he-said-this-to-me type of thing, with totally unverifiable claims. Typical. Go post a video of you doing some impressive martial arts. Can you manage that?

      • How about you posy who you really are and a counter video punk? I’ll be holding my breath!

      • Much of my paperwork has been lost, but who cares? Here is what counts on this thread.
        1. I backed down a coward named Ed Parker!
        2. I wore a black belt in his school for 2 years and NOBODY questioned my skills.
        3. I taught in numerous cities and trained with the best.
        4. An EPAK 3rd degree black belt named Ron Wilstein would not fight me ! I guess he got that Kenpo Koward gene from Ed Parker!
        5. On this thread Steve Shaffer, a 4th degree EPAK black belt, would not face me for a friendly challenge to expose how BAD Kenpo grab techniques are! He at first accepted to save face and then when I asked for a commitment and posted the airfares he ran like a scared little girl and said he would have me arrested if I showed up at his school!
        6. Joshua Pestaner will not spar wit Irish Billy MAck as he is a punk and paper tiger!
        7/ And my videos, which I am willing to put out for free, are getting vert positive feedback and even Kenpo black belts have agreed with some of what I posted.
        And you hide behind a keyboard like a Kenpo Kunt!

  1141. Let me set the record player straight.
    My name is Saul Rubbin and I posted my comment on September 26th at 11:34 AM.
    At 4:20 PM someone named Libbly posted under Saul Libby and used my exact post with some additions to make fun of or embarrass Robert Libby of this forum, which therefore didn’t make it my exact post and therefore I am stupid.
    My word to this individual is to cease and desist your actions that are obviously meant to link me to the arguments happening here by Libbly.
    I posted my personal opinion courteosly and with respect for everyone here except Ed Parker, Ed Parker’s family and friends, and American Kenpo, and martial arts in general.
    Whoever you are I do not appreciate your act of plagiarism and added negative commentary, even though I admitted that it wasn’t plagiarism whatsoever but parody.
    Heed my warning, for I am a 11th degree pink belt.
    “DON’T DO IT AGAIN” is something that I say to act tough.

  1142. Where are videos of Larry HArtsell in fights? Where are videos of Paul Vunak in fights? The video argument is absurd at best. But that is the nature of Kenpo- to be absurd.
    At least I have 20 training videos up and getting some very positive responses!
    This is from Bad Kenpo Techniques 13:
    I think this is a great series of videos and much needed. I’ll be doing my own set on my gunslingerstactics channel.?
    Bad Kenpo Techniques 8:
    I agree with everything said here. Once you know what to look for the BS is easy to spot. There is so much wrong with these techniques. People don’t shoot straight punches? WTF? Has this guy ever been in a real fight? Has he ever even seen a real fight??
    Bad Kenpo Techniques 7:
    Way too much common sense! I’m shocked that you don’t get death threats from the cults….I mean, “traditional martial arts” Just the talk about the “dead” training is worth its weight in gold and kills off about 90% of all martial arts. I also notice that I teach the same escape from the headlock.?

    You Kenpo people are idiots And where are posts from all the “Kenpo Elite?” My beef with ed Parker started with me standing up for Paul Dalton. At least I had the balls to stand for something other than profit and cult status!

    • At least I have 20 training videos up with Garfield and by training I mean moving slowly in my living room with an untrained opponent and using no force whatsoever. I am getting like so many likes on YouTube, which means something!!

  1143. Both of these are excerpts from a post made by Tom Bleecker dated March 27 2015 on this thread and easy to find.

    Next topic: Bob Libby’s knowledge of Kenpo, as well as his rank and file, are relatively easy to confirm one way or the other. For those who are interested, there are individuals still living who were around during those early years. That said, I can state that everyone I spoke with confirmed that when it came to Bob Libby’s fighting prowess, he was known as a ferocious fighter who thumped with many of the best Kenpo fighters of the day.

    To the contrary, it’s possible that he was heading out the door en route to meet Libby but decided against it at the pleadings of his wife. After all, Ed had five kids, owned property, and a reputation of being a master of the martial arts. Getting into a fight with a kid who is barely out of high school would have put a great deal at risk.

    Tom Bleecker | March 16, 2015 at 6:23 am | Reply
    After perusing this thread, I feel the need to clarify a particular aspect regarding Bob Libby challenging Ed Parker to a fight. About a year ago, Mill Crenshaw emailed me asking what recollections I had, if any, of Bob Libby’s claims to have called Ed Parker from my apartment and challenged him to a fight. After giving it some thought, I wrote back to Mill, giving him my honest answer that I simply didn’t recall that happening. At the time, Mills did not tell me that he was going to post my email in this forum. Had he done so, I would have conducted additional research. In any case, when I subsequently learned that my response was posted, and Bob Libby’s response, I made some additional inquiries. One of those inquiries was to my top black belt Steve Walton, who shared with me that he recalled my mentioning Bob Libby calling Ed Parker from my apartment and that Gary Brandolino was present. I have to take Steve at his word. Like me, he doesn’t have a dog in this fight. As an aside, I am still confused as to why I would have been party to this call, the reason being that my participation would have put me in the position of being an instigator. Under any circumstances, I can’t imagine Ed Parker being pleased that I had been party to a call of this nature. As such, perhaps I arranged the call (I don’t remember having Ed Parker’s home phone number, although I suppose it’s possible), thinking that Bob Libby might back down at the last minute, although clearly he did not. Anyway, the purpose of this post is to confirm that the call did take place, even though I still don’t personally remember it (I’ll take Steve Walton at his word. I have to believe that if Gary Brandolino were contacted, he would be a second confirmation). Second, I read somewhere in this thread that Gary Brandolino had commented that Ed Parker came to my wedding (to Linda Lee) and looked bad and could hardly walk because of his suffering from severe gout. For the record, Gary Brandolino was not present at my wedding, so if in fact he did say that, his statements are not firsthand. Moreover, although it is true that Ed Parker was dealing with gout at that time, he certainly did not look like “death warmed over,” and I have video to clearly show that he looked to be in good health. I hope this helps to clear us some
    Any doubts you may have about me canned be sorted out by people like Albert Cornejo, a 10th degree EPAK black belt who used to teach me and used to cut my hair! I am an old school Kenpo guy who came out of the mix of Kenpos best ever! And here is a Kenpo senior that verifies all that I have claimed. His take on Ed is different but to each their own.
    Any more questions moron? Before you attack me you had better grow some balls!

    • “Both of these are excerpts from a post made by Tom Bleecker dated March 27 2015 on this thread and easy to find.”

      Where’s your video at least sparring semi-realistically?

      “Next topic: Bob Libby’s knowledge of Kenpo, as well as his rank and file, are relatively easy to confirm one way or the other. ”

      Where’s your video at least sparring semi-realistically?

      “For those who are interested, there are individuals still living who were around during those early years. ”

      Where’s your video at least sparring semi-realistically?

      “That said, I can state that everyone I spoke with confirmed that when it came to Bob Libby’s fighting prowess,..”

      Where’s your video at least sparring semi-realistically?

      “To the contrary, it’s possible that he was heading out the door en route to meet Libby but decided against it at the pleadings of his wife. ”

      Where’s your video at least sparring semi-realistically?

      “Any doubts you may have about me canned be sorted out by people like Albert Cornejo, a 10th degree EPAK black belt who used to ”

      Where’s your video at least sparring semi-realistically?

      “Any more questions moron?”

      Where’s your video at least sparring semi-realistically?

      ” Before you attack me you had better grow some balls!”

      Where’s your video at least sparring semi-realistically?

  1144. 1. So you lied in a previous post where you admitted you trained for three years before getting beat up, despite claims that you were an incredible fighter despite being only a child. Well you lying is certainly no surprise.

    2. Their are people in every Martial Art who are an embarrassment or con-artists, their are people teaching Kenpo who have no real world experience and thus they have the same limited understanding of the forms and techniques that you currently i.e. they don’t know how to apply it or to train it properly.

    3. Let me humor you for half a second and say that you really did challenge Ed Parker by calling and threatening his wife like you claim, that only makes you a coward and why would Ed Parker who everyone knows was a Master of Kenpo bother beating up a little boy. If the crap you say even happened which I doubt then it is more likely that he simply spared you out of pity, what joy would he get from beating up a mentally handicap child.

    4. What is the point of telling you who I am, though most anyone who does Kenpo knows who “Kenpo Soldier” is… Are you going to magically grow some testicular fortitude and come back from hiding in Thailand and back up your tough guy talk by actually having a full contact, no holds barred fight with me? I already know you told Tony you would come take his belt from him and I waited quietly for you to back up your words, never happened. So why waste my time giving you my name and an address where you can find me to only have you continue to hide in Thailand and demonstrate your misunderstanding of Kenpo on an untrained child while making claims of being billy badass?

  1145. Once again you show that you are lazy, stupid, and dishonest, so by the numbers:
    1: I never once said I trained for 3 years- please submit the date of that post! I’ll be holding my breath.
    2. You cannot make a silk purse from a sow’s ear. What you have said is meaningless and the problem is Kenpo is impossible to do in real time!
    3. I never threatened Ed’s wife; I threatened Ed directly. I do not threaten women, yet Ed threatened my students of whom some were women. At the time I was about 22 so not a little boy. I was six feet and 220 pounds. I was not mentally handicapped and not a kid and it was in fact Lelani who called me and asked me not to kill her husband.
    4. By not giving me your name you merely show what a coward you are. And it sounds like you are a student of Tony Collins which means you are a fool. I live 10,000 miles away and have commitments. But when I did announce I was coming to America nobody responded.
    The entire tone of your post shows that you merely make things up to support your ideas. It also shows that you a cult follower and probably that you are in fact mentally ill! You also say things that have never been stated and just cast around crazy ideas. I believe you are mentally unsound and believe you never served.
    As I posted-Tom Bleecker supports my claims as would many 1960 and 1970s Kenpo people. What is your name coward?

    • Hey guys, I trained with Robert (Skipper as we called him) Libby decades ago… he is the REAL DEAL. I remember when he challenged Ed Parker like it was yesterday. We were practicing on a heavy bag when Skipper said that he saw Ed doing the forms so sloppy the other day and that he couldn’t fight, or even hit hard really, but Ed wanted to keep it on the hush-hush. Skipper was having none of that, being truthful to martial arts, and even though he was only 17, he had the heart of a 70+ year old battle hardened veteran even then, and confronted Ed, in person. Ed was teaching and Skipper interrupted. Ed tried to out ‘big dog’ Skipper, but Skipper didn’t let him. Skipper said “Ed, your McDojo days are numbered. Let’s rumble.” Ed was a bit flustered and stepped back, surprised someone figured him out. Skipper then simply challenged Ed to a no-holds-barred-fight with knives and hot lava. Ed, however, being from Hawaii, was used to lava, and agreed instantly, thinking he had the upper hand. When they did battle, it was one of the most amazing fights ever, similar to Musashi and Gonnosuke out on the boat – if only YouTube had been around at the time! Skipper threw a mean right, and Ed threw an inadequate ideal phase 5 swords and dropped instantly when Skipper’s knuckles connected. Ed’s senior belts then stepped in, and tossed Skipper into a tub of Hawaiian hot lava. Skipper’s hand emerged showing only pure metal! Skipper was a cyborg sent from the past to erase any kenpo history!

      1: I never once said I trained for 3 years- please submit the date of that post! I’ll be holding my breath.
      2. You cannot make a silk purse from a sow’s ear. What you have said is meaningless and the problem is Kenpo is impossible to do in real time!
      3. I never threatened Ed’s wife; I threatened Ed directly. I do not threaten women, yet Ed threatened my students of whom some were women. At the time I was about 22 so not a little boy. I was six feet and 220 pounds. I was not mentally handicapped and not a kid and it was in fact Lelani who called me and asked me not to kill her husband.
      4. By not giving me your name you merely show what a coward you are. And it sounds like you are a student of Tony Collins which means you are a fool. I live 10,000 miles away and have commitments. But when I did announce I was coming to America nobody responded.
      The entire tone of your post shows that you merely make things up to support your ideas. It also shows that you a cult follower and probably that you are in fact mentally ill! You also say things that have never been stated and just cast around crazy ideas. I believe you are mentally unsound and believe you never served.
      As I posted-Tom Bleecker supports my claims as would many 1960 and 1970s Kenpo people. What is your name coward?

      Leave a Reply

    • “the problem is Kenpo is impossible to do in real time!”

      …to old guys living in Thailand, practicing in their livingroom with untrained people, yes that is true.

      “By not giving me your name you merely show what a coward you are.”

      …says the person threatening people in the US from Thailand.

      “I live 10,000 miles away and have commitments.”

      One of those commitments is to not show any videos of you doing martial arts fast, with power, and even semi-realistically. And yes we don’t wonder why that is.

  1146. Sorry, but this is Robert Libby and as we know my posts do not come up like this. I would like the domain owner to verify this! This guy is a liar!

    • Where is a video of you doing anything fast, with power, and with a resisting opponent even semi-realistically? Thailand probably has thousands of martial artists…perhaps you can get one to train with you and make a video?

  1147. WOW! I love how these are coming in so fast- You Kenpo punks are really getting desperate! I do not know if it is the juvenile tone or the stupidity that I love the most!
    New videos coming soon for all to see and realize what a joke Kenpo truly is! And my views are going up faster and faster and my subscribers!
    Too bad that all of you, just like Ed Parker, have no skills! So you cannot do a video! My teaching is solid as opposed Ed Parker’s watered down fag tag!

  1148. I have an idea, and I know these are all the same person. I should come out next year. Set up a meeting and I will be “realistic” with you! But I know that you, just like that pussy Ed Parker, will never do it!
    But SOOOOOOOOOOO many people like my videos and are having a good laugh with me at Kenpo!
    Here is a response from BJT 10
    Love your videos Mr. Libby. I studied Kenpo in the early 90’s when I was recovering from moderate to severe brain damage, and I will give the training credit for (with my continued repetition) possibly helping me regenerate or connect pathways to my brain that had me dragging my left foot behind me for a few years. I had the sense even back then, that an experienced street fighter would put many of the belted experts to shame, and I appreciate your very practical demonstrations that cut straight through the bull. Appreciatively – abe?
    Now from a 6th degree Kenpo blak belt!
    Kinetic Dragon Tutorials8 months ago
    Hello there. With all do respect and If I may say so. You are politically incorrect Sir but you are right on target. I say these as a compliment to your efforts on your Tutorials. Good day.?

  1149. Show me a video of Ed Parker Sparring! Huk Planas, Paul Mills, Albert Cornejo, Vic Leroux. There are none and I used to spar with Vic and Albert. So the video question is absurd.
    Hey, about you do a video of anything tough guy! Fucking Kenpo pussies!

    • I think, Robert, the person just meant a video of you doing something, anything, impressive in martial arts. But even if Ed has no video, that is you just changing the topic. Since you’re talking all high and mighty, where is your video? We’ve only seen you struggling to keep your breath in your living room, moving slowly, with a non-resisting, untrained opponent. That’s all you can do?

  1150. Also, please keep doing this! Please, please, please keep making up baby names and acting like fools! You are so proving my case as to the fact that Kenpo is a cult and filled with nothing martial artists! So keep up the good work!
    You can never change the fact that Ed was a fraud and his followers are not even second rate martial artists for the most part. There are a few good ones but not many. Kenpo died in the 1970s.

  1151. OK This must’ve been missed, so i’ll post another one, this time, with no jazzy background music, must’ve really irked you Libby, it’s short and sweet slow enough to read, so that if there’s any question, you can go over it and over it, just to be sure what you’re reading in each slide.
    Similarities of Kenpo to JKD, Libby states categorically that there’s zero, OK, let’s take a look, he might be right…

    https://youtu.be/iqt-j3u17fU

    • Steve, this is a rehash of what you did before and it is just as pathetic. So they both us e say a vertical fist and have a check- so what? How did they set it up? How did they enter? There are a lot of variables that your idiotic slide show does not answer. And even in the slide show there are differences.
      Steve, face some simple facts= you are brainwashed and delusional. You are so desperate to prove that you did not waste all this time in Kenpo, but you did.
      You had a golden opportunity to prove Kenpo and you ran away like a Kunt. You are a coward and liar. Now go study a real art you loser!

  1152. I accept your challenge on the condition you sign a release form agreeing you will not hold me responsible for all of the injuries you will sustain. For you to come to America and have a match with me. My name is Sami Ibrahim, I am an active duty Soldier stationed in the state of Washington. I will record our match and post it on YouTube. I am in the process of retiring due to many injuries and often use a cane or wheelchair to get around so I don’t want to hear any excuses about how your too old after all you have claimed that at the age of 22 you challenged Mr. Parker while he was was sick and have spent your last years of life trying to discredit a Martial Arts pioneer and legend.

    I am confident you will back down from your own tough talk and come up with some excuse so I will keep it simple, if you ever get the testicular fortitude to put your money where your mouth is and fight a Kenpo practitioner send me an e-mail to Kenposoldier01@hotmail.com with a one week notice so I can meet you in Washington (State NOT DC) Come on tough guy show me how my Kenpo won’t work!

  1153. I have looked up Steve Spry. He is a Kenpo black bet from Hawaii. He started am organization called The Martial Arts Hall of Fame which is a scam. It does have some very good people but many recipients are total frauds.
    Steve Spry himself seems to be a typical Kenpo guy so useless in a real fight.

  1154. I feel what I an showing is “impressive” just by the fact that it will work in a fight. The analysis of Kenpo is accurate as it will not work. So that i all I am trying to do. Your analysis is absurd and as you are obviously a Kenpo practitioner so you do not know what the reality of a fight is. And my breathing is just fine. Like all brainwashed Kenpo punks you will make shit up as you are insane.. Now show me a video where Ed Parker even teaches anything real let alone fact!

    • “I feel what I an showing is “impressive” just by the fact that it will work in a fight.”

      Wrong. You’re just doing a slow demo in your living room with a nonresisting, untrained opponent, and even then it barely works. You are breathing hard, and can barely keep your balance. There are a lot of martial artists in Thailand. Why don’t you film a video using one of them and get more realistic before you criticize others? You’re not very impressive here; you’re not doing very well convincing people.

  1155. As per usual you are lying. First ed Parker threatened my students. He stated to the owner of the health club that “he would come down and start hurting people.” So Ed Started this and not me. And when I chose him off I did not know he had a heart condition. So as per usual you just inject your idiotic idea of the truth.
    You are quite obviously mentally ill and I cannot do anything about that. But do you think I would fight with a guy in a wheelchair? No way! And that is why you set it up like a manipulative cunt! You first use the lie that I threatened somebody disabled which is a lie. Then say I am a coward if I will not beat up a guy who needs a wheelchair. So you are a typical Kenpo snake.
    So you are right; I will not spar with a guy who needs a wheelchair. But I do hope you get professional help as you are very sick!

    • “First ed Parker threatened my students. ”

      Prove it. You’re clearly jealous of Parker’s success. He has a worldwide following, even after his death, thousands of students, a legacy. Robert Libby has … what exactly? -100 subscribers on YouTube? You’re not being very rational here.

      “You are quite obviously mentally ill and I cannot do anything about that. But do you think I would fight with a guy in a wheelchair? No way! And that is why you set it up like a manipulative cunt!”

      Says the old out of shape man who thinks he is Chuck Norris, threatening people in the US all the way from Cambodia..

  1156. Tom Bleecker says it happened and unless you are also calling him a liar.
    And please keep up your whining and crying- it shows how mentally weak you are.
    And many frauds have followers. Sung Myung Moon has thousands and that does not mean he is right.
    Cambodia? When did I say I lived in Cambodia? Or the Philippines? You people are so fucking stupid that you cannot even get the country right!
    And when I publicly announced I was coming out last year where were all of you? You are whining little girls.
    You are typical Kenpo losers so PLEASE keep this up! It shows what punks you are and whiners!

  1157. Robert Libby when you publicly announced you would come out last year, Mills Crenshaw had already challenged you and you also stated you would go to Tony’s state and take his belt so I did not want you to feel over whelmed besides I knew that Mills Crenshaw would probably leave you crippled so I waited for you to back up your claims that Kenpo wont work and all your tough guy talk but like the coward you are, you never showed up. I had not given it a second thought until another Kenpo practitioner in Washington told me you were still at and had even insulted him and his teacher. Now again you made comments that would come and fight so I accepted your challenge and you again like a coward backed out. So I think we are done here, we know what kind of person you are now, a con-artist, coward and liar so carry on talking about Mr. Parker who passed away DEC 1990, keep talking about Bad Kenpo because that is all you have, your an old man with less than a few years of life left and after your gone, when you die in a Thailand brothel I may write an internet article and make a few videos about the coward Robert Libby, that will be your Martial legacy and you won’t be around to defend yourself.

  1158. “Tom Bleecker says it happened and unless you are also calling him a liar.”

    This thread has

    “Tom Bleecker
    4:28 PM (6 hours ago)

    to me
    It’s a complete mystery to me. Off hand, I can’t recall knowing anyone named Ron Morgan. Also, while I knew Bob Libby, this is the first I’ve heard of Bob challenging Ed Parker to a fight. It might be a good idea to contact Bob and ask him.”

    Fool.

    “Cambodia? When did I say I lived in Cambodia? Or the Philippines? You people are so fucking stupid that you cannot even get the country right!”

    Still, no videos of you doing anything impressive in the martial arts, no students, no schools, no worldwide following, not even on video moving slightly fast with the slightest force. What martial art is your rainbow belt in again?

    • Below is the entire post with the date. Like ed Parker you have no honor and are a liar. In my next video I will show a technique done by Larry Hartsell called “the cashbox technique” used to ridicule Ed Parker.

      Tom Bleecker | March 27, 2015 at 4:47 pm | Reply
      A few closing thoughts. First, a couple of edits: The Lucy Show was taped in 1961, not 1967, and two, I am not a tenth degree black. I was a fourth when Ed Parker passed, and 50 years later I’m a seventh. A word about Larry Hartsell. Larry and I were close friends for many years. I was training at the first SM school when he started his Kenpo journey in the winter of 1963. We became instant friends. I arranged his going away dinner the night before he left for Viet Nam. He was the best man at my marriage ceremony to Linda Lee. At no time in all the years I knew Larry did he ever once speak unkindly or disrespectfully about Ed Parker. In fact, at the wedding reception the two got along quite well. Regarding Bob Libby challenging Ed Parker to a fight, I think it is wrong to assume that Ed Parker was a coward because he did not agree to the fight. To the contrary, it’s possible that he was heading out the door en route to meet Libby but decided against it at the pleadings of his wife. After all, Ed had five kids, owned property, and a reputation of being a master of the martial arts. Getting into a fight with a kid who is barely out of high school would have put a great deal at risk. That aside, over the course of his lifetime, Ed Parker was challenged to a fair share of fights that he walked away from, as was Bruce Lee and many other martial arts masters. Walking away doesn’t necessarily make a man a coward. Next topic: Bob Libby’s knowledge of Kenpo, as well as his rank and file, are relatively easy to confirm one way or the other. For those who are interested, there are individuals still living who were around during those early years. That said, I can state that everyone I spoke with confirmed that when it came to Bob Libby’s fighting prowess, he was known as a ferocious fighter who thumped with many of the best Kenpo fighters of the day. About Ed Parker: although an imperfect man like all of us, most would agree that over the course of his lifetime he enriched the lives of hundreds of thousands of people worldwide. Two years before he died, I produced a Tribute to Ed Parker that was held at the Bonaventure Hotel in Los Angeles. It was a semi-formal dinner and show that was attended by a couple thousand guests, many of them celebrities. Dan Inosanto cancelled a seminar so that he could attend; and I still recall Chuck Norris’s closing comments at the podium (actually have it on film), of “I respect, admire, and love Ed Parker.” Two years later when Ed Parker passed, a couple hundred martial artists stood at his gravesite and respectfully delivered the Kenpo salute to the man they credit for making them better human beings. When those who have posted on this forum arrive at their final hour (including myself), how many of us will have tributes given in our honor and a couple hundred people showing respect at our graves? Perhaps this is worth considering. In closing, please give thought to what you’re posting. These flurries of my Kenpo is better than yours, and I’m a bigger badass than you are, the war stories, and challenges of pistols at dawn are demeaning to all of us. Surely some of you would not want your children and grandchildren reading some of your posts. If, on the hand, continuing your battle serves some purpose in your lives, then do everyone a favor and take it private. I apologize if I appear to be judgmental. What I have shared is with respect and the best of intentions.

      • And like the text says

        “…Bob Libby’s fighting prowess, he was known as a ferocious fighter who thumped with many of the best Kenpo fighters of the day.

        “…he [Ed Parker] enriched the lives of hundreds of thousands of people worldwide.”

        So some young mere sparrer who went nowhere vs someone who touched millions (now) of lives for the positive. More evidence Libby is full of himself – he’s a nobody in the martial arts world.

  1159. Still waiting…

  1160. Even Ed Parker Jr’s ‘paxtial arts’ can handle Libby. See https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0wvJopYdu6w to see the most devastating techniques known to mankind.

  1161. Once again you have shown you have no honor and are a liar. Mills Crenshaw never challenged me nor accepted a challenge from me. I have only had contact in regard to Tony Collins in the last few months, so you are making shit up.
    You are a seriously mentally ill individual! But that is the Kenpo legacy.
    This will be my last post on this site do to the pathological lying and mental instability of so many of the Kenpo Kult members. I will not waste my time with liars and criminals. Instead I will continue to destroy Kenpo with accurate analysis of its faults and lies via my videos..

  1162. Anyone can just read Mills Crenshaw’s response to you above where he even gave you the address where you could meet him, Robert Libby is also Monfongo he likes to use multiple profiles so he can high five himself even in his YouTube video comments, its absolutely pitiful. Further more you stated you would come to Tony’s state and take his belt but you have yet to back up any of your tough talk. If you think what you know is functional then why are you backing out now that I accepted your challenge? Why are you talking around the subject of actually showing up, making 100 excuses? I will tell you why, because your coward, your all talk, now I am sure you will carry on spreading your lies but you should go ahead and start working on the excuses you will need to make when you are defeated by a Kenpo practitioner, it is your karmic destiny, for all the lies you spread. Peace.

  1163. Your video of reality based fighting are not critiques of American Kenpo – they even apply to MMA, or anything else with sports rules, padding, controlled environment, no weapons, referees, cups, mouthpieces, etc.

    Of course Geoff Thompson is a legit bada$$, but, I’d like to point out that…he has his base in traditional karate training.

    Try again chump! This time, YOU make a video instead of breaking copyright and showing someone elses video.

  1164. This is the REAL Saul Rubin.
    One of you schmucks went ahead and reposted what I said earlier.
    I can see that this is going into the toilet.
    Since I don’t know who the scurfbag was that decided to disrespect me, I’ll just address ALL OF YOU.
    Get a fucking life!
    This EP nonsense and debates has grown old like most of you.
    I’ve read all the arguments so when will one of you rejects fight and prove your worthiness?
    The jive jerk off that posted my name can come kiss my ever loving Jewish ass!
    You are all a bunch of old and young wimps that are out of shape or play tag with your aging kenpo idol or little brother.
    Slime, fiflth, and a waste of time is what you bonified trash talkers are.
    Not one of you has fought the other and shut the mouthy momentum of madness coming from a bunch of keyboard amateurs.
    Fight mother tuckers or shut your traps!
    But, keep me out of your aging, worthles, bullshit!
    I have 0 respect for everyone of you gossipers.
    Old, elderly posers arguing with young video practicing nobodies!
    Shame on each and everyone one of you aging blowhards!

    • Nice try, but THIS is the REAL Saul Rubin. Please quite reposting what I said earlier; I don’t appreciate the parody.

      I do know one thing, and that is American Kenpo is one of the most effective martial arts out there. I tried it in the past, and couldn’t keep up with it. Actually, I was sparring with Ed Parker, and he could neutralize all of my attacks with ease.

  1165. And the above applies to Kenpo soldier too!!!

  1166. Hi Robert,
    I was talking with John Thomas and Gary Cotter last week and mentioned your name. They remember your name but very few details. John and Gary were President and Vice-President of the Corporation from late 1972 through August 1973 (after the Internationals). I was Manager of the Fullerton Studio from March 1973 through December of 1973. I may have met you at a Manager’s meeting at Santa Monica shortly after the Internationals when Parker brought in George Waite to “find the missing money”. At that meeting, he also brought in Frank Mulryan to start up the Intructor program again.
    I see you studied/taught with Chuck Epperson in Chico. What years were you there? Also, while you were theer, did you learn the history of Parker Kenpo in Chico?
    I will agree and disagree with you about Parker, though. He had many issues as a man, but he was brilliant in the system he constructed. No one ever said he did it alone. Dave Hebler, Huk Planas and many others contributed to the construction of the system and the marketing of it. Parker never said that the self defense techniques were street techniques. They were flexible and subject to “change ups” once the technique began.
    I know where “the missing money” went.

  1167. Kenpo Soldier,
    I come here today after a long absence and read that now you, like several others think I am Robert Libby.
    And, the attacks on Robert continue.
    You challenged Robert Libby then mock him?
    Tell you what, I accept in his place.
    Publish contact details so that you and I can discuss date and time.
    Unlike Robert I’m in the US.
    After all, I have to prove I’m not him.
    Look forward to your response buddy.

    • Let’s see a video of you in action. It will probably be posted when Libby posts one of him in action, that is to say, never.

  1168. Checking in for your response kenpo soldier.
    If you don’t mind provide a telephone number where you can be reached.
    Doesn’t have to be a personal number, gym or dojo will be ok.
    Just indicate best time to call you.
    I have two weeks vacation time that I could use to schedule our thing.
    Also, I am fine signing any paperwork that will make this happen.
    Will check back later for your response.

  1169. I can’t believe what a bunch of jerk offs post here.
    I did not post the comment at 5:12 PM October 5th.
    Some Kenpo idiot here is stirring the pot and looking for trouble.
    Whoever you are your a piece of crap!
    Fact is that most of you followers of Kenpo are pussies.
    I will never find out who is using my name to bash Libby because that slob is too much of a punk to post.
    Seems that anyone who agrees or defends Libby gets thrown under the bus by the heartless defenders of Kenpo.
    I asked to be kept out but some sleaze brings me in.
    I see that tough guy Kenpo soldier has not responded to the challenge posted by another jerk off Monfuega.
    Most of you fat slob all talk no skill posers.
    At least Libby put himself on YouTube and didn’t hide like the critic slanderers.
    What a bunch of losers!!!

  1170. I am only responding to you now as it is the right thing to do and due to honor. “Monfuega” as you called him is Monfongo and he is a stand up guy. It is not right for you to lump him on with the Kenpo pussies as you referred to them. He was merely standing up for a friend.

  1171. Libby,
    I went back and read over post that are almost two years old.
    Seems I made a mistake putting your friend in the same category as the others.
    I apologize to Monfongo and you also.

  1172. Hello and ola my fellow advocates of karate, judo, and defense.
    I no understand why master Edward must be talk bad by people less than hin.
    I practico a mixture of Kenpo con pelea Mexicana.
    We due defense against broken tequila bottles tambien.
    Why you no talk bad about you mama or papi?
    Embarrassing why this websuit allow these to do bad words against el gran maestro edwardo Parker.
    You singando ohalo pudriciones from your boca de Raton.

  1173. Thank you so much for taking the time to look and for showing a great deal of respect to me and Monfongo.

  1174. I gave my full name and a way for you to contact me, I told you I am stationed in Washington State, I was accepting a challenge from Robert Libby, who claimed he would come from where he has been hiding in Thailand and beat up any Kenpo people. I stated that the person using the Screen Name Monfongo is Robert Libby, so what your telling me now is that Robbert Libby backed out and got someone else to pretend to be Monfongo to challenge me instead in order to hide his embarrassment for backing out. OK Monfongo since you now claim you are someone else, how did that fight with Mills Crenshaw go? Oh you didn’t show up for that one either but now you want to rewrite history some more and claim that I put out a challenge when I was responding to Robert Libby. Tell you what lets start by you giving up your full name and where you currently are and I will accept, whoever you are that your filling in for Robert Libby because he is a coward, so come on out with it, who did Robert Libby get to do his fighting, lets give up your full name and location.

  1175. Francisco these guys have no honor, they talk bad about Ed Parker to draw attention to this stupid book that the guy is trying to sell and Robert Libby just uses it as a forum to spread lies. He is basically a keyboard warrior and has backed out each time a Kenpo practitioner accepted his challenge. I don’t really blame him I have seen videos he has up on YouTube where he shows a complete lack of skill, he has to resort to showing other peoples videos in his own videos because he was made fun of so bad for his total lack of ability. Don’t take what these cowards say to heart, they can spend the rest of their short lives talking badly about the legendary Ed Parker but they will never achieve even a fraction of his greatness. To put it simply, they are jealous cowards.

  1176. Monfongo I am waiting on a reply from you, start by giving up your full name and current location, if you come to Washington you can meet me in front of 512 Maynard Avenue S, Seattle WA. don’t forget to e-mail me a week ahead of time with your full name and an e-mail address so I can send you the release paperwork which you can send back to me signed before I waste my time meeting you. When you come bring an ID so that I can make sure it matches up with the signed documents and we can have our recorded match at a Martial Arts school over there.

  1177. Soldier of Kenpo,
    I never backed down from Crenshaw.
    Get your facts straight.
    First, and this is factual info Parker backed out of the Savage fight.
    Eddie went to his mob associated judo champ LaBelle for help.
    This came from Savages mouth to my ears.
    The whole promo was filled with intimidating guys in suits hanging with Gene.
    Savage felt he lost fair and square but was put at a disadvantage by having to wear a gi.
    Savage would have cleaned Parkers clock period!
    The Crenshaw bs is old news.
    The pathetic kenpo mental cases here have long imagined that I was Robert Libby simply because I took his side on the issues.
    You SOLDIER brought my name up in your post/challenge to Robert.
    Had you used your brain and kept my name out, this between me and you wouldn’t be a problem.
    Now, I’m living in the NYC area and train in Brooklyn.
    I ain’t spending one cent flying to Washington State.
    Come to NYC and we can meet at Gleasons or the Copa.
    As for ID, you get to see NOTHING Jack!
    I will sign the paper no problem.
    I found your email from another post to Libby, so you will be getting an email on this as well.
    This I guarantee your going to lose and and it’s no going to look pretty.
    So video the brawl all you want.
    This will finally put to end the abuse you kenpo kreeps have put on Libby.
    What you should have done military mouth was kept my name out.
    And I have tremendous respect and admiration for all those that served, but you came here to bust Libbys balls and used my name in your disparaging remarks when I had long been out of the b.s. here.
    Now, start calling your idols like Crenshaw, Martinez,and the others here so they can come support you and take videos and pics.

  1178. Another coward backs out of a challenge that they themselves put forth. Monfongo until you give me your real name I will assume your Robert Libby or the person he went to when he couldn’t back up his own challenge. I accepted Robert Libby’s challenge and he back out because he is a coward. Why put forth a challenge if you are just going to back out of it when you get called out. You stepped up and said you would take the challenge, I told you start by giving up your real name and location, you can’t do it because your a keyboard warrior, I gave you my full name, a physical address, a profession, an e-mail address and agreed to let you fill in for Robert Libby since he was to much of a coward to back up his words. I even picked a place close to the airport to make it easy for you when you fly in and suddenly your in New York and won’t give up your full name and you won’t show up in Washington but yet still keep up the keyboard warrior talk about how tough you are.

  1179. So what your really saying is you challenge me to come to Gleason (the Boxing Gym) in New York and ask for who? a guy who won’t give up his real name, won’t show an ID, Excuse me Gents anyone here an anonymous keyboard warrior with the screen name Monfongo who is representing Robert Libby in Thailand in the challenge to Kenpo practitioners to show us that what we do cannot work? You may want to change your location, I can be in New York in about 6 hours with a weeks notice, I got friends there that are dying to see me, one of them Steve actually trained at Gleasons, so how much you want to bet that you will crap me another excuse when I get there about how you couldn’t be bothered to show up. You should have asked about me first, my friends and I like to travel around all over and have throw downs with other fighters, we last had one in Memphis TN at least those guys showed up.

  1180. When I get your e-mail which I very much doubt I will, I will send you the release forms digitally, print them out sign them and scan and return them to my email, at that point you will be agreeing to an exact time and place and not to hold me or anyone other than yourself responsible for any injuries or damage that will occur to you. The catch is that if you don’t show up you will be financially accountable for my travel expenses. A representative of mine will come and set up the camera and verify that you are present, you will have to show a photo ID that matches the name on the paper work. When I get the call that everything is ready I will walk into the building and the fight starts immediately, no talking, no safety equipment, no holds barred, open season on all targets, the match is over when the other person is a twitching mess on the ground, no tapping out, no throwing in the towel, if you draw a weapon, the contract is terminated and it becomes a life or death situation which has happened before, it is dealt with swiftly and within the bounds of the law.

  1181. @Kenpo Soldier, email me. PUMA.KENPO@gmail.com

  1182. Kenpo Soldier, Sami Abrheim…are you kidding?
    I didn’t back out your cripple wheelchair punk.
    Your retiring due to injuries and want me to sign a release?
    You sign the release and find a way to post it here that will state that I won’t be liable for putting you in the hospital or worse and that you won’t sue me.
    Another thing, you do not want to fuck around with my “representatives”, trust me.
    Because your mind is telling you that your fucked up broken up injured body can perform, I changed my mind and will fly out to you.
    But, you WILL reimburse me when it’s over for every cent I spend to come on your turf.
    As for rules, if you want to add edged weapons and broken glass to the mix, beautiful.
    How dare you a man :–) who admitted to Robert Libby that he’s crippled, uses a can and sometimes a wheel chair think that he would have any chance with a healthy, strong, conditioned warrior like me?
    I’m gonna give you exactly what you’ve asked for Sami.
    And, if, after its over I have any legal problems and have to retain counsel, ALL legal expenses are coming out of your pocket.
    Post date, time, and exact place this is taking place.
    I will then contact sources my “reps” may know there to make sure I’m not waking into some sting.
    Just refer to me by my last name Cianetti Mendoza.
    First name Shihan.
    Kenpo J, stay out of this and mind your own business.

  1183. Kenpo Soldier,
    I see you make your rounds around the net on numerous sites asking a lot of questions regarding Kenpo.
    Even made a comment on Amazon about some book.
    Nice to see that you have educated yourself in the arts via supplemental study materials.
    Just checking in on things.

  1184. First of all I will NOT pay your expenses for travel, maybe you failed to understand what I said about expenses. First you agreed to accept a challenge on behalf of Robert Libby who was too much of a coward to back up his words.

    Then you refused to give up your name, failed to send me an e-mail so I can send you the release form, refused to show an ID so I can verify that the person’s name on the release form matches with the person I am having a match with, a fairly reasonable request IMO. You went on to state you would not actually show up to the address given and you would rather I come to a New York boxing gym. I agreed to go out of my way to New York because it would give me a chance to see my long time friend Steve who actually trains at the very boxing gym you wanted to have the match at.

    All of a sudden you don’t want to have a match in New York, All of a sudden you want to come to Washington but only if I pay your expenses, that is the funniest way of “linking” out of a match I have ever seen kudos to you on the Ashida Kim tactic, what is next are you going to ask for a 10,000 dollar payment for the privilege of having a match with you. You keyboard warriors are hilarious!!

  1185. Yes without a doubt I have many injuries from serving in the US ARMY for over ten years, unlike the video games you play in your mother’s basement, their is no “respawn” in real war, you suck it up and drive on until you simply cannot fight on any more. Yes, I reached that point where I have to retire but my dear keyboard warrior my Kenpo is tailored to me, it continues to work as needed despite my injuries. As for me going around asking questions about Kenpo, your absolutely right I do, I was a moderator on a popular Kenpo Forum for a time and I have my own little internet group of 700+ martial artists from around the world networked together to exchange IN-DEPTH information on the Martial Arts. My Bio is also available on the internet if you wish further insight into my Martial background, I am not a hard man to find and that is intentional. Obviously your not going to have a match with me, it is clear from the repeated excuses and stipulations that you won’t and that is because you looked into me and realized I am bad for you health lol. Hey that is OK no shame in it, your actually a pretty smart cookie for backing out of a match with me, I wouldn’t want to fight me either lol!

  1186. By biggest issue with Robert Libby is not the bad mouthing of the legendary Senior Grand Master Ed Parker the founder of American Kenpo, may he rest in peace, his reputation and contributions to the Martial Arts world are too many that the barking of dogs is meaningless . What really annoys me is Robert Libby’s ignorance about Kenpo in general. The techniques are nothing more than an introduction to the individual basic moves that you would find through the various Martial Arts, the sequence teaches different lessons and different levels. As a beginner you are just seeing an example of say a back knuckle to the the temple or a hammer fist to the nose or a front snap kick to the groin as you progress you learn how to use power generating principles to gain more out of those moves, as you step up a level your learning how to flow, as you step up a level your learning how to control and limit your adversaries options, as you go up another level your learning alternative targets and so on until your changing the weapons and targets and lines and orbits. So to anyone who had a good teacher in Kenpo when they see Robert Libby complaining about a technique sequence devoid of any level progression, they cannot possibly take him seriously. It comes across like he actually believes a Kenpo practitioner is going to get attacked on the street and search through his frontal cortex and select one of the ideal phase Kenpo sequences and then respond to the adversary and when the adversary changes his attack, maybe changes the distance or throws a counter the Kenpo practitioner is going to be like a poorly programmed robot who will continue his sequence in the air while the other guy is destroying him HA!

    Not how it works at all, first of all your taught to use your awareness and preventative planning to avoid trouble if possible but if you have to defend yourself or your loved ones you have put in the hard work that gave you the coordination and accuracy and ability to generate the needed amount of speed, power and timing to use what ever is reflexively triggered be it a finger thrust to the eyes or snap kick to an open groin to end the confrontation as quickly as possible while wasting the least amount of energy possible. The only person stupid enough to believe that a Kenpo practitioner is going to go through all the movements of Dance of Darkness exactly as first taught in the ideal phase no matter what the “opponent” does is Robert Libby and those who have no real understanding of Kenpo.

  1187. Kenpo Soldier,
    You’ve gotten this wrong my friend.
    First, I mentioned Brooklyn.
    Not once did I mention Gleason’s.
    Nor, have I backed out of any match.
    I’ve got you covered buddy.
    I’ll have someone cover my expenses to your location.
    Just name date, place, and time.
    That’s not too much to ask is it?
    Coming to NY for the purpose of throwing down with me would not really be the best idea.
    While my intent is to do this fair and square, me vs. you, mano a mano(or anything else)I cannot control the actions of associates.
    Now, to your comment about video games in my mother’s basement.
    What gives you the right to mention my mother?
    What does she have to do with this?
    For the record, sleezebag I do not spend my valuable time “jerking off” on the keyboards playing games like other so called “keyboard” warriors.
    I’ve been in my own “trenches” working high risk jobs, some that would equal what you may have faced on the battlefield.
    And unless you have memory loss, I published my name.
    All I’m telling you is to name the time, date, and place.
    After all, I am coming out solo.
    I need to be sure this ain’t no setup.
    What guarantee do I have that when I start to do my thing and have the upper hand your buds won’t come out of the “woodwork” and mass attack me?
    Let’s stop playing games soldier!
    I promise you that when you provide time, date, place and the location is checked, I will not only email confirmation I will call the place where it’s going down to reconfirm.
    As for signing releases, that’s for pussies.
    We both know going in that one of us is at the very least going to require medical attention.
    I put it here and this should be good enough.
    I CIANETTI MENDOZA WILL NOT SUE SAMI ABRHEIM FOR ANY INJURIES INCURRED AS A RESULT OF OUR NO HOLDS BARRED HAND TO HAND FULL CONTACT COMBAT CHALLENGE TO BE HELD AT A TIME, DATE, AND LOCATION TO BE DETERMINED BY SAMI ABRHEIM ALSO KNOWN ON VARIOUS MARTIAL ARTS AND KENPO FORUMS AS “KENPO SOLDIER”.
    Fact it Sami, deep down you are hoping that this never happens.
    You have more at stake then I do my friend.
    Everyone knows you and your supposed Kenpo/Hand to Hand Skills.
    Few know me.
    And, unlike you who bragged that it would be recorded”when you win”and then post it for all to see I, out of respect for the Military, Veterans, and those that have served would video but refrain from posting the results and aftermath of my victory.
    It will not be necessary for me to embarrass and further humiliate you after it’s over.
    Since your standing up for Ed Parker, Sr. and Kenpo why not invite Ed, Jr. to be present?

  1188. Let me elaborate.
    Now once did I say Gleason’s “boxing gym” in Brooklyn.
    There’s another business that goes by the same name(Gleason’s) and I was referring to that one.
    Besides, the owner of the boxing gym would NEVER allow this type of contest(bare knuckle, anything goes) in his establishment.

  1189. Robert,
    I’m going to shut up all your critics here by knocking heads with “Sami The Soldier”.
    Honestly, I don’t know why a guy who claims to walk with a cane and use a wheelchair would want to go toe to toe with a healthy, in shape, and technically skilled athlete.
    You’ve been right all along.
    Most of these guys are all talk.
    Kenpo Soldier “seems” to be willing so we will soon find out what skills he brings to the battle.
    When it’s over I will post a thumbs up if I win or down if(HIGHLY unlikely)I lose.
    I’ll keep my promise no to expose details of the demolition and all the details out of respect for the military.
    Hope all is good with you.
    PS-When you headed to the US?

  1190. I am not sure when I will come back but I am shooting for next year- probably next summer.
    The thing that blows me away is how these people just make shit up, like when Pestaner said I was “whining” about my motorcycle accident and that because there was no video of me “flying off of my motorcycle” it never happened. All I did was say the videos would be delayed and how would I have a video of the accident from a 3rd party that just happened to be filming the exact second I had the accident? And the point is this guy Kenpo Soldier makes shit up.
    But what was so funny is that a former top guy in the IKKA remembers me and that I was at a managers meeting with Parker and that I ran a school, which the Kenpo loons try to say never happened.
    I would wish you good luck but you will not need it. I am also sure the guy will never go through with it. After all Kenpo has a proven record of cowardice. I’ll get in touch with you when I get to Dallas!
    A pleasure as always amigo!

  1191. Monfongo start by using your real name AKA Robert Libby. Have the testicular fortitude to back up your own words. I already gave you my real name Sami Ibrahim (notice the spelling carefully), I gave you my e-mail address Kenposoldier01@hotmail.com, I told you what state I reside in Washington. I told you what I do for a living, Active Duty Soldier. I gave you clear guidance on what you need to do in order for me to accept (Robert Libby’s) your challenge.

    Very simply send me an e-mail so I can send you a release form, sign a legally binding release form that absolves myself and the owners of the location of all the injuries you will sustain and show up to the match with an ID that matches both the signature and identifying information on the release forms with either Robert Libby or whoever he gets to fill in for him. I told you that the match will be recorded not because I have a need to brag but because Robert Libby or his representative will not admit to being defeated by a Kenpo practitioner. The video will be proof that the match took place and yet another Kenpo critic woke up with the realization that Kenpo works just fine when you have the skill to apply it.

    Despite making it so easy for Robert Libby or his representative to have a match with me, instead I was told that I should go to New York, when I agreed as long as they sign the release form and show an ID like I stated from the start, they backed out, refused to give up a real name, refused to show an ID, refused to sign a release form and then misspelled my name on the board while pretending to agree. Well Sorry unless I have signed documents that match up with your ID, I will not have a legally binding agreement and no place will agree to host our match without such an agreement because they don’t want to end up in litigation. So now I am quoting exactly what Robert Libby posing as Monfongo stated.

    Monfongo: “I’ve got you covered buddy.
    I’ll have someone cover my expenses to your location.
    Just name date, place, and time.”

    My response is exactly the same as it was when I first accepted Robert Libby’s challenge. E-mail me so I can digitally send you a legally binding release form, Sign it and scan it back to me, then I can give you any number of locations. Since you are afraid of being jumped which makes sense since you think it is impossible to defend yourself from multiple attackers lol we don’t have to meet at a Kenpo school, we can meet up at an MMA school like maybe we can meet IF YOU SIGN THE RELEASE FORM at SSF in Clarksville TN, it is probably the best MMA school in the state of TN and I will gladly give you time so that both Robert Libby and the guy he got involved when he linked out of his own challenge can both come and have a match with me at the same time. Two on One and remember I am just some crippled Kenpo practitioner so it should be a cake walk for you both to take me on. Robert Libby is too much of a coward to fight alone but perhaps with two vs one he will have the testicular fortitude to show up. By the way that would mean I need signatures from him and his assistant. Until you actually send me an e-mail and sign the release forms, please stop pretending you would have a match. I am not interesting in having a two second match that ends with me in court.

  1192. Great!
    Hopefully we can meet up.
    Don’t forget lunch and drinks on me and your more than welcome to bring members of your family along.
    Kenpo Soldier might be legit, who knows.
    However, no matter how well skilled one may have been or is, with injuries the disadvantages are clear.
    As you more than anyone elsewhere would know, one’s ability to take punishment with injuries drastically reduces the ability to execute.
    And I don’t believe that having experienced adversity in the military helps when years later in civilian life one’s involved in a street fight against a person who doesn’t give a dam about accomplishments on the battlefield.
    You know Robert as much as I respect our veterans, I still have to fight regardless of who’s in front of me.
    I think you understand where I’m coming from.
    I came here and defended a friend whom I gained respect for against the “naysayers” and “bullies” that didn’t.
    Soldier wants to stand up for Parker and Kenpo, I’m standing up for Robert Libby and me.

  1193. Sami Abrhaim,
    812 College St in Clarksville, TN sounds fine with me.
    I will sign the release on the day of the match, an hour prior to it.
    November 5th or 12th both weekend dates works best for me.
    If you need alternate dates, indicate.
    If you want it sooner, it would have to be 10/29.
    Now, all you have to do is schedule the time and get approval from the owner.
    You will see ID prior to the signing the release.
    And you will ALSO sign a release to make sure I don’t get sued.
    Whatever stipulations you make on the form will work both ways.
    Just post which date works best and the time.
    It’s a done deal, no worries.
    Looking forward to meeting you on the mat.

  1194. Just a quick note to Kenpo Soldier.
    I am going to call the head guy at SSF this weekend(Mike)to make sure he is going to approve.
    That way I’ll be assured that this location is set.

  1195. The head of SSF is not Mike it is Ron and I will not waste his time setting up a match until you actually e-mail me and sign the paperwork and scan it back to me and present an ID that matches the name on the paperwork because in the past Monfongo you have used alternative names when actually challenged by other Kenpo practitioners and from what they tell me you backed out of those matches too. I am still unconvinced that you are anyone other than Robert Libby using an alternative screen name. The only person from SSF that is tracking a possible match is one of the instructors Mr. Henderson and I told him I won’t bother Ron with it until you actually sign the paper work.

  1196. I am only responding to this as it involves Monfongo who has always had my back on this site and I consider him as a friend and a real martial artist!

    Once again making up stories. I am not Monfongo and I am sure you are lying about Monfongo backing out before. You always post with incorrect facts and seem a little

  1197. I need to finish what I started email wise as it got sent by my cat!
    Kenpo Soldier- you are totally full of shit! You make shit up! You are a typical Kenpo Kult wack job! You people always invent shit when you cannot prove anything. Where are counter videos to all of mine? There never will be any as what I teach is factual and tested in reality as opposed to EPAK BULLSHIT!
    And now you have Jon Thomas and Victor Banks on here and Jon Thomas used to run the IKKA acknowledging who I am.
    I am on the Internet in 22 videos showing my face so I am not hiding from anybody. And the only proven liars on here re Kenpo people!
    So the facts again- Ed Parker ducked Milo Savage and he ran from me!
    Ron Wistein hid from me and was a punk!
    And Steve Shaffer said he would have arrested if I showed to just do grab techniques.
    I am getting a lot of responses praising me for exposing your little cult and its bullshit. People like my videos and are talking about how pathetic EPAK is.
    I am a realist and even praised Jeff Speakman as what he was doing was really good so I do not play favorites. I have also gone after other people as what they are teaching is not viable. You need mental help!

  1198. Robert,
    Thank you for stepping in.
    Although we have yet to meet, I consider you and friend and respect your combat self defense knowledge one thousand percent.
    Now, ATTENTION KENPO SOLDIER,
    Get your facts straight!
    Ron Dayley the owner of this school retired and Mike took over the training and day to day duties.
    Like I said I’m calling them this weekend and will try to talk to both Mike and “Mr. Henderson”.
    I’m gonna find out if you’ve been bullshitting.
    Anyway, Mike runs things why bother Ron or instructor “Henderson” when it’s Mike who would have the last word?
    I’m flying out and what I’ve stipulated and asked you to agree to is within reason.
    I’ve given you dates, pick one.
    I will sign the release and provide ID an hour before it goes down.
    To protect my personal information I WILL NOT email any form of ID.
    You have different dates to choose from, so get to work and get the powers that be at the school to agree.
    Furthermore, your sources are LIARS!
    I’ve never backed down from any challenge here and that includes ours.
    And, this will be the last time I address this…I am NOT Robert Libby.
    My time is valuable Sami.
    And I need to start making travel arrangements(air, lodging)over the next few days so make up your mind.

  1199. Robert,
    Don’t waste your time with these “talkers”.
    Just had a brief phone conversation with someone from Clarksville TN.
    Sami, AKA Kenpo Soldier is a Kenpo guy who also did a little Krav.
    It is highly unlikely that Sami will step up and there will be nothing but excuses coming.
    That’s my opinion from the tone of the brief conversation I just had about Sami with a source from that area that knows him.
    SSF would never, under ANY conditions including signed release documents allow the challenge.
    Something Kenpo Soldier probably knew.
    The topic actually brought “chuckles” from my source.
    Just thought you would be interested in knowing.
    So far a COMPLETE waste of my time.

  1200. I think I had previously mentioned that it would not happen due to Kenpo backing down. They have a strong track record of that.
    I’ll contact you next year when I come out to see my grand kids!

  1201. I restrained myself as I did not want to repeat the relevant details of the conversation and embarrass “Kenpo Soldier” on this forum.
    I’ll come back her only to keep in touch with you.
    You have proven that everything you’ve said is true and accurate.
    Keep posting your valuable videos too.
    Regards to you and your family

  1202. Robert Libby AKA Monfongo, it was obvious from the beginning that you were going to back down from your own challenge just like you linked out of your own challenge to Tony C. Just as when you posed as Monfongo and linked out of your challenge to the IKCA practitioners which at that time you used a different name then the one who is claiming to be Monfongo now. Just as you backed down from me.

    I made it crystal clear I would not arrange a location or take you serious until you at least send me an e-mail and sign release forms and show ID because you have a track record of using many screen names to high five yourself in your YouTube videos and in the comments section of this article. You are a joke, why would I waste my time making rebuttal videos to a guy who is creating straw man arguments because he lacks any real understanding of the system.

    Also make no mistake about it Ron runs SSF. Also I have never ever done Krav but the Krav instructor there is one of my closest friends and old training partners and knows a lot more than Krav. I see your strategy was to call SSF and try to stir up trouble exactly as I knew you would. Lets look at the facts so far.

    1. Robert Libby makes numerous statements bashing Kenpo and Mr. Parker, sometimes under his own name and other times as other screen names.

    2. Robert Libby states he would come to Tony’s state and kick his ass and take his belt from him but it never happens.

    3. Robert Libby makes statements along the lines of where are all the Kenpo people to step up and accept my challenge. I come forward and accept the challenge with one and really only ONE minor condition. That tough guy Libby signs a release form and presents an ID.

    4. Robert Libby links out of his own challenge, digs up some clown in New York and gives him the information he needs to log in as Monfongo and fight for him.

    5. The Robert Libby representative claims he will accept in Robert Libby’s place. He requests and is given a full name and an address and an email so that release forms can be exchanged but he backs out.

    6. The person using the Monfongo Account from New York then challenges Sami Ibrahim aka Kenpo Soldier to come to New York to Gleason’s boxing gym for a match. Sami Ibrahim agrees but again asks for a real name and a release form and showing of an ID. The New York Guy immediately backs out, claims he will come to WA if Sami Ibrahim pays him money but wont sign anything or show an ID.

    7. It is obvious to everyone that he is linking out of the New York match, he and robert libby get embarassed so they come back and suddenly agree they will both come and fight a match in WA but they are afraid of being jumped or set up for some kind of sting, which would imply that they may be some kind of criminals on top of being cowards.

    8. To take away the excuse Sami suggests that they meet in neutral ground like an MMA school in TN IF AND ONLY IF they sign release forms, then and only then would Sami talk directly to Ron about the possibility of having a match there.

    9. Robert Libby finding an opportunity to link out of this challenge calls SSF and talks a bunch of crap to try and get SSF to never let the match take place during all this time neither Libby nor anyone he has tried to get to fight his fights for him has been willing to sign a release or show an ID or do anything that would show they are anything but cowards and keyboard warriors.

    10. Lastly I Sami Ibrahim have used my real name and my real e-mail account and real location and given multiple addresses (three) where a match can be held and still Robert Libby and the person using Robert Libby’s other screen name has yet to sign a release form or reveal an actual identity. The use of fake names that cannot be backed up by an ID is the mark of a coward who won’t show up. No match will take place until Robert Libby actually signs a release form, I am not going to destroy him only to have him sue me and it is obvious from his behavior that he is exactly the kind of guy who would press charges.

  1203. Robert Libby aka Monfongo You asked Kenpo to step up and back up their martial art system. I Sami Ibrahim have stepped up and you Robert Libby aka Monfongo have stepped down, back out of your own challenge. This is proof beyond any reasonable doubt that you are a coward and a laughing stock but if you think your off the hook your not…

  1204. OK so What did Gene Lebell have to say about it BLACK BELT Magazine:

    Black Belt: Why were you chosen for the match?

    Gene LeBell: A fellow who did kenpo karate, Ed Parker, a great teacher and a great human being, came to my school and said a guy named Jim Beck had called us “karate and judo bums” and offered $1,000 to anyone he couldn’t beat. The karate guys were emotional about it, and they had a big meeting. They wanted someone to fight Beck and decided on me. I said, “Why me? I’m not known as a karate or kenpo guy.” They said, “Yeah, but you’re the most sadistic bastard we know.” They said, “If you win, you get $1,000.” I said I’d fight my grandmother for $1,000. But she’d have beaten me. …

  1205. So an a interview with Gene LeBell by black belt magazine the truth comes out that Ed Parker was never challenged, some amateur put up a $1000 bucks to anyone who he could not beat and they picked LeBell because he was a sadistic guy. Despite them switching the boxer out with Savage LeBell still one. For those who don’t know LeBell was not just a Judo guy but had also done Wrestling, Boxing, Karate and KENPO and mixed it all together, he also admits this in the same interview. http://www.blackbeltmag.com/daily/mixed-martial-arts-training/boxing/judo-gene-lebell-vs-boxer-milo-savage-americas-first-mma-fight/

  1206. So Robert Libby your accusation that Ed Parker was directly challenged by Milo Savage is a lie. Your claim that after training in Kenpo for less then 6 years you were defeated by a little boy in a street fight is probably true because you obviously failed to understand anything about Kenpo. I can understand why you hold a grudge against Kenpo it is certainly easier to blame the system then to blame your own weaknesses and lack of hard work. I leave you with these parting thoughts, instead of making silly straw-man arguments in your videos about sequences of motion taken out of context, why don’t you just focus on making yourself better. Go find a qualified Kenpo instructor and train. You state that you like Jeff Speakman so go study with him, perhaps after a few years of hard work you will finally scratch the surface of Kenpo.

  1207. As far as your source in SSF goes, you should understand that their is only one number for SSF and it goes directly to one guys cell phone, that guy is currently on vacation in Florida and explained that he received no phone calls about me or a challenge match… lying again tisk tisk lol more proof that your a coward linking out of your own challenge match.

  1208. Kenpo Soldier…your full of shit!
    Tried not to, but now I’ll drop the dime.
    The guy that answered the phone said he was Ron you jerk off!
    Your a Kenpo poser that rented “practice” space at his academy, a “typical” Kenpo guy.
    If you had any fighting capabilities you would have been sparring and fighting in MMA, kickboxing, or even boxing you jive talking wannabe.
    YOU punked out pussy.
    Your very good at spewing BS, imagining that I’m Robert Libby, and practicing pre arranged Kenpo drills in rented space.
    You probably rented space an an established MMA academy to associate your “make believe” Kenpo skills and “keyboard warrior name” Kenpo soldier” ???? with real fighters and athletes.
    Your not a fighter dude and if you can’t fight or “hang tough” with combat athletes in the gym, your shit most likely ain’t no good on the street.
    You live in a fantasy World???? but are nothing more than ????.
    All talk my man.
    Listen, you got no business entertaining a brawl with me, your skills are at best “dojo buddy practice” level.
    Where you look good playing around with your bud in the practice area you rented at SSF.
    Your???? and ???? in your pampers.
    Go play tough guy with your boyfriend or practice partner.
    Rent space elsewhere or go to mommies attic and do your forms and pre arranged Kenpo drills.
    Your not a street tested fighter, let alone a technically sound Martial Artist.
    If I were U I would keep that trap shut.
    You found a way out, and IF it happened you would have received a severe beating.
    You ain’t all that buddy.

  1209. More of your bullshit, I never rented space at SSF, I was invited to teach a class there by… you know what man its obvious you will just keep dancing around not backing up your challenge, your not going to get me off track by trying to start trouble between me and Ron. It really is simple, You Monfongo said you would fill in for Robert Libby when he linked out of his own challenge, You were given repeatedly clear instruction what to do to have a match with me, instead you chickened out. Go ahead keep barking about how tough you are while hiding behind your keyboard. I gave you a chance to take on a Kenpo practitioner and prove that American Kenpo does not work by kicking my ass, you state my skills are of a low level yet you slithered out of every opportunity to face me and back up your talk. I gave you my full name, my job, three addresses to meet me, my e-mail, my bio is on the internet, I asked for you to sign a release form and show your ID so we can make sure the name on the release matches the release form, you won’t do it because you can’t because your Robert Libby. So please spare me the tough guy act, you are nothing. You will always be nothing in my eyes!

  1210. If anyone knows where exactly Robert Libby is please send me the information to my e-mail Kenposoldier01@hotmail.com I will reward you, same thing if anyone knows exactly who this other guy is using Robert’s other screen name Monfongo, I need a full name and exact location, again you will be rewarded if the information leads to them being found. Just to be clear this is not for any illegal purposes, no illegal acts will take place if your information leads to their being exposed. Thank You in advance!

  1211. ABOUT AMERICAN KENPO

    Ed Parker is the founder of the American Kenpo System, an updated and all-inclusive system designed to cope with the mode of fighting prevalent on our streets. American Kenpo is not a traditional martial art, it was designed to evolve and change as the student’s understanding and skill increases. Students are encouraged to think deeply and question everything. The system which is primarily concept and principle based is designed to be open ended leaving responsibility for further exploration in the hands of the individual. Individuals can continue to explore and develop to meet their individual needs.

    Techniques done an idealistic way to teach the phonetics of motion at the initial phase, transform into a platform for the scientific exploration of violence. A practitioner of American Kenpo is constantly exploring violent scenarios, refining the ways to survive the initial assault and tailoring the basics defined in the early stage of training to solve each scenario. In other words a basic movement taught in the initial phase gets repeatedly redefined so it becomes a tool in the Kenpo tool box that can assist in resolving different problems.

    Unfortunately American Kenpo requires students who are motivated thinkers and equally dedicated hard workers, a balance between the warrior and the scholar or the tiger and the dragon. Many folks who come from more traditional martial arts have been taught never to question the material being taught in the system or to question their instructors, such questions they believe will be disrespectful. In classical systems of Martial Arts it is certainly not the norm to create your own techniques and forms or to change the way you execute a technique from the way your instructor does it. However, in American Kenpo such individual tailoring is encouraged because the American Kenpo practitioner is an individualist and free thinker not caught up in tradition for traditions sake.

    Their are no pure systems of martial arts, the idea that only an Asian master can teach you authentic and pure martial arts is a misconception that people still have about Martial methods, I personally don’t care if someone prefers to study a Japanese System or a Chinese System, people have the freedom to study what ever they feel meets their needs.

    Throughout my life I have explored many martial arts but as a bouncer and later as a Soldier in a time of war I needed a Martial Art that could help keep me alive when the stuff hit the fan. For me that was American Kenpo, without a doubt. Some people don’t have the stomach to study violence realistically and for them it does not matter what they pick be it American Kenpo or Judo or Boxing they are going to play around like the hobbyist they are with no pressure on them to become effective at what they do. Even if they play sport tournament fighting they know that they may get a few lumps but for the most part are likely going to get to go home to their families. I didn’t have that luxury, if my training was not enough I would not make it back to my family, at least not alive. So I poured my heart and soul into American Kenpo and I got excellent results.

    Do I think that everyone who studies American Kenpo is going to get excellent results? No! American Kenpo requires an instructor with real world experience, who can help guide the students to the correct understanding of real violence and teach them how the Kenpo they initially learn during the early phase of training is going to actually be applied effectively. Sorry that is simply not the case with many instructors not just within American Kenpo either but Martial Arts in general. So students learn from people that have unrealistic, fantasy notions about violence and when the moment of truth comes they fail. Unfortunately many of them point their finger at the system rather then their own instructor and their own lack of understanding or lack of hard work.

    Despite what anyone claims in their efforts to sell you a martial art, their is no easy short cuts to skill with violence. Just because you come to class each day in your Martial Arts uniform and endure a lesson or two for a couple of hours does not mean your magically ready for the chaos of real violence.

    What American Kenpo does well, thanks to the genius of Ed Parker is that it has a very detailed, progressive step by step learning process for helping a student grow in all the areas needed to be effective in real violence but if the Instructor’s understanding falls short or the student never goes beyond the monkey see monkey do stage of study they will not scratch the surface. The design of some parts of the system can be very misleading when looking in from the outside which will also happen if you have a piss poor instructor.

    Imagine if you peeked through a window and saw a Martial Arts class going on where the students were standing in deep squatting “horse stances” throwing punches, chambered from the hip. Then being a fool who jumps to conclusions with only a fraction of the facts you went and told the world that the school in question teaches their students to stand with their legs wide apart like they are riding on invisible horses and throw punches without putting up their guards. Surely a system that does not teach footwork, defensive body movements or even a practical fighting stance cannot be good and those weird punches are so robotic they must be a McDojo. While your running around telling the world how horrible that schools teachings are the students develop their leg strength and range of motion and move on to cover every area you think is missing. That is what happens in American Kenpo, people see a technique being done as it is first shown to a new student (we call it the ideal phase) which is supposed to be just a starting point for all the exploration and refining that has to happen as part of learning American Kenpo and jump to the conclusion that this is what they expect American Kenpo practitioners to use when in a violent altercation. When this is the ignorance of an outsider it is understandable but if someone claims to have studied the system well enough to be a teacher of it they would know better so if it comes from them it is simply dishonesty due to “sour grapes”

    Sour grapes syndrome is when an instructor is typically kicked out of a Martial Art for piss poor conduct of some kind and in retaliation the instructor spreads lies about the system to try and get even.

  1212. Gracias amigo! The best for you and your family also!

  1213. WOW! You sure are dumb. Even in the article it states that Parker came to Lebell to fight. How do you know Ed Parker didn’t get offered the fight first and passed it of to Lebell? Why didn’t Ed Parker step up to represent martial arts?
    If anything the article shows that the fight was passed off to Judo Gene Lebell as none of the TMA boys wanted a real fight.
    You Kenpo Kult members are pathetic!

  1214. COMMON MISCONCEPTIONS ABOUT AMERICAN KENPO

    “When teaching a particular move it is always best to teach it in a specific way first. However, emphasize the fact that the manner in which it is being taught is only being used as a point of reference.” ~Ed Parker

    It is a point of reference for learning correct body mechanics and the concepts and principles that enhance effectiveness. It is only a starting point for further questioning and exploration. It is not a sacred movement that exists in an ancient scroll, passed down from master to disciple for thousands of years that has to be done in exactly the same way by everyone. (However, the foolish critics want you to think that it is in order for them to place the blame on the entire system.)

    The ten kenpo sequences usually taught to a white belt, along with the other two requirements (a short form and a stationary blocking drill) are baby steps, an introduction to the stances, blocks, strikes, kicks and so on. Basic concepts of generating power, torque, momentum, back-up mass, dropping your weight, linear and circular motion, checking and controlling the available options an adversary can move in, buying more time to establish your base and get your defenses up for a sudden attack. Also an introduction to target areas on the body, the radial nerve, the groin, the carotid artery, the solar plexus, the temple, the pelvic girdle, the base of the skull, the nose, the jaw, the philtrum, the trachea, the floating ribs, the testicles, the kidney, the wrist joint, the elbow joint, the instep, the inner thigh, the knee joint, the pharyngeal muscles and the medulla oblongata. That is a fairly extensive introduction for a beginner that is simultaneously learning the most elementary footwork and stances, how to structure their limbs to deflect and parry and how to execute basic movements while maintaining their balance. All of this knowledge is being imparted to them via the platforms of the curriculum but it is a teaching mechanism. Building a foundation so that additional skill can be developed.

    While it has happened that white belt level students learning American Kenpo have managed to apply some of the movements they are learning during these initial lessons to successfully survive an attack this is just one side effect of learning a martial art from a qualified instructor and having developed some confidence and simple tools not in anyway the end of the journey or final product. The introduction covers some very common categories of attack, such as a side headlock (the grasp of death), a bear hug from the rear (capture twigs), a push, (alternating maces) being grabbed and pulled in (Mace of Aggression) and so on, each of which teach the beginner examples of how the basic movements they are being taught can apply in a specific scenario in a specific environment, the follow up movements are for specific reactions, all of which are nothing but a starting point, a point of reference for an incredible, life time journey into the study of how to survive life. (not just violence but life itself).

    How far the individual goes in that process is up them, their is no END no finished product, it is a never ending process of refinement, the average and bellow average students will quit after a few years if not a few months if they find a qualified instructor. Why? because the journey is a challenge, because putting on a Martial Arts uniform and attending class is not a magic pill that makes you superman. People want it easy, they want to find that coach that instructor is who going to coddle them, that will say good job when they are really moving like pregnant yaks so when they find it a challenge they quit, or perhaps they lose a fight sooner or later and instead of looking within at their own lack of insight and piss poor training habits they find it easier to blame the system and go find an easier path. If attaining mastery in Kenpo was so easy that it could be done in a single day such people would still quit after less then half a day.

  1215. It is a shame that George Jethro Ware died in 1998 OCT 16 (today is the adversary of his death). He is the guy that lost to Gene Labell in the 1960s, he had a 105 boxing matches with a 23% knock out rate. He is more popularly known as Milo Savage, he never directly challenged Ed Parker, his challenge was a generic one to all the “karate bums” A Kenpo practitioner and student of Ed Parker’s wanted to take the match but Ed Parker was worried that the student might accidentally kill the boxer and instead asked Gene Labell to take the fight. Ed Parker had a black belt in Judo and boxing experience so he understood very well that Gene Labell would be able to handle the boxer without issue.

    I don’t want to speak badly about the dead so it is with great respect to George Jethro Ware (Milo Savage) that I explain what he was known for. He was known as a crafty boxer who threw trick punches and clowned around in the ring, he was boastful and doubtful of Martial Arts that were starting to gain in popularity, he was defeated by his own admission and it is a matter of record. However, it is safe to assume that he probably harbored resentment for such an embarrassing defeat having issued a challenge and offered money to anyone who could beat him, only to be defeated rather quickly by Gene Labell. Perhaps when he first met a former student of Kenpo who had gotten beat up in a street fight he told a little fib like I challenged Ed Parker in order for the former kenpo student to believe in the defeated coach and take lessons from him. In any case he is not alive to ask and those that were actually there like Mills Crenshaw and Gene Labell and actual boxing records all verify that it was a generic challenge and Gene Labell took it and defeated the boxer. Anyway may Milo Savage rest in peace.

  1216. IS AMERICAN KENPO EFFECTIVE IN A REAL FIGHT?

    NO! American Kenpo alone is not effective, It absolutely requires a practitioner to internalize its concepts and principles and attain skillful execution of it. Without that hard working practitioner it is nothing but a teaching curriculum waiting to be taught, unable to defend its self at all.

    but to hear the critics bark they would have you believe that their is this creature called Kenpo that walks around getting into fights, rather absurd. I could tell you about my experiences in surviving various violent altercations in America, in Korea and in the Middle East but my victories and defeats, my survival are all my own, while I greatly attribute my survival to my training in Kenpo and I believe that had I not learned Kenpo from a qualified instructor I would be dead today, this does not make me KENPO had I been killed it would not be because KENPO failed me but simply because the circumstances were such that I failed to survive. That is how it is with all the Martial Arts. Their are thousands of practitioners of a martial art, some are capable and some less capable, sometimes capable and skilled practitioners still get killed, like the famous Muay Thai fighter who was simply shot when he chased after a vehicle. Sometimes less skilled practitioners still survive or come out on top, I recall when I was only a yellow belt level practitioner in Kenpo and I came out on top of a multiple attacker situation with a gang in my neighborhood. I am a lousy shot and yet I survived the Iraq war while some who were far superior Soldiers and far better shots were killed. Life is not always fair and it does not always make sense. I hope that the critics start to open their eyes passed their own limited skill sets and see that just because something does not work for them does not mean that it will not work for others. Just because they failed to understand the lesson does not mean the individuals to the right and left of them failed as well.

  1217. Fact…Mile respected Martial Arts and he trained many Martial Artists in boxing/striking up until weeks of his untimely passing.
    At an advanced age the man still had a sledge hammer punch.
    In boxing terms his was slightly “over the hill” when he fought Gene.
    Had Milo faced a karate or stand up style Martial Artist instead of a grappler type he would have won.
    Similar to when James Toney fought Randy Couture in the UFC.
    The UFC could have picked any one of a handful of top UFC contenders including Chuck Liddell who favored stand up over the ground or submissions.
    Liddell, Griffin then still fresh would have been picked apart by Toney.
    The UFC matched him with a grappler and the outcome was the same as Milo vs. Gene the boxer/striker lost.
    I can be found at Sapphires in NYC most weekends.
    Just tell security your there to see me, they won’t charge you.
    Then you can donate your reward to a charity.
    Maybe homeless vets.
    Take up your argument about rented practice space with Ron.
    I didn’t make any of those comments up buddy.

  1218. Sapphires the gentlemen’s club at 333 E 60th St, New York, NY 10022? I should ask the security if a Mr. Mendoza is there or do you use yet another fake name?

  1219. By the way I did not bring up George to talk bad about him after all he is dead, I believe you that he retained his punching power well into old age. I don’t think it is very classy to make excuses for him however, his own admission of defeat is sufficient. Did you know that Gene also studied Kenpo and Boxing. Just as Ed Parker also studied Judo and Boxing. Those greats are far more well rounded then most people think.

  1220. WHY THE CRITICS BARK

    Ed Parker was only human. He was a legend, He was a brilliant genius but he was not perfect. He was always a student of the art, always learning more and developing his skills and passing on his knowledge to those willing and deserving but naturally he made mistakes. For example he often accepted students into his organization that were ungrateful and untrustworthy, they came to him unable to fight their way out of a wet paper bag and after they developed a moderate level of understanding they went off to compete with him and became critics of him despite owing their knowledge to his teachings. He was also approached by many con-artists with business ideas that became upset when he refused to be suckered into it and at times he did have bad business deals that hurt him financially, again he was a human being and it is easy to lose sight of that.

  1221. Yes that’s right.
    Cianetti Mendoza, the guys at the door know me.
    I’ll also be cageside for UFC 205 at the Garden.

  1222. Still using a fake name, what are you afraid of?

  1223. Soldier,
    The tag games are over bud.
    I just called your cell from your 2011 Arizona trip and some chick answered.
    Never heard of you so I let it be.
    Keep me out of your debates and arguments from here on.
    I gave you dates and my conditions.
    SSF per Ronnie….”no way it happens at my school”.
    The dates were still good, just another location.
    I then attempt to be somewhat respectful and invite you to the club in NYC.
    You come back with the same childish BS.
    I ain’t got time to be fucking around wasting on forums like you.
    Going back years and years all you’ve done is hit up different Martial Arts sites asking questions and posting commentary.
    If you spent more time training and less on the net you’d be in better condition.
    Kind of like Parker,Sr. who spent more time writing up techniques on index cards instead of training.
    Like I said, keep me out…games over.
    If you keep bringing up my name or making references to my being Robert Libby I will have to call Ron again.
    Just a suggestion…give Mr. Libby a little more respect.
    After all, he was training when you were in diapers.
    None of us is going to retain physical skill as we age or are injured.
    But you can’t deny knowledge and experience which Libby has.
    Again, no time to waste playing keyboard sparring.
    Keep my name out of future conversations, arguments, and debates.
    End of story.

  1224. Dear Monfongo, I figured he would be all bullshit. But I keep seeing is when you expose these idiots they start quoting Parker’s books like they are the Holy Scriptures of martial arts. Or they go to personal attacks. On one the fool is inferring that I am in a homosexual relationship with my daughter’s boyfriend. But that is what mentally ill cult members do.
    Good luck to you amigo!

  1225. Robert,
    I respect and admire you as if you were my trainer/instructor.
    I’ve found your videos extremely valuable and your opinions top notch and valid without question.
    I will always have your back my friend.
    Best always and keep me posted on how your doing.

  1226. I don’t care if you harass Ron, he is a big boy and can handle himself and you without issues. Do you think I wouldn’t be able to predict that someone who trolls the internet and does not use his real name would call and harass people over the phone, of course you would, that is the kind of gutless coward you are.

    Have no clue what girl you called or which of my many AZ trips you reference or what that has to do with you using a fake name and backing out of your challenge to me. Remember I accepted Robert Libby’s challenge he backed out and you stepped up knowing already that a release form and ID were required and you did not do either instead you slithered out of every opportunity including calling Ron and starting shit, which I honestly figured you would. Your predictable like every other keyboard warrior, you talk tough from behind a computer but can’t be bothered to back up anything. If Robert Libby wanted people to respect him he would have conducted himself in a respectful manner. He instead opted to spread lies about a beloved martial arts legend and to challenge all Kenpo practitioners, I actually gave him enough respect to accept his challenge since everyone else was viewing him as a clown, it is not my fault that he shamed himself by backing out of his own challenge, nor is it my fault that he used the screen name Monfongo to high five himself and agree with himself and that he passed on that information to some guy to help fight his fight for him and just happened to pick a guy who won’t use his real name.

  1227. Life is indeed to short to waste time talking to a guy who uses multiple screen names and has nothing better to do then create videos on straw man arguments for example: These guys work techniques on nonresistant opponents…ignores the fact that these people also work techniques against resisting opponents and freestyle spar, the nonresistant opponent stuff is for introduction and learning not the only way they train and if he ever had a Kenpo background like he claims he would have known that but then to make it really stupid he proceeds to demonstrate his solutions on nonresistant opponents which screams hypocrite.

  1228. Since neither Robert Libby nor the one claiming to be someone other then Robert Libby using the screen name of a Spanish dish will back up their own tough talk. I will just have to expose their stawman arguments and their false claims like I did earlier with the Gene vs Savage fight. It is really no big deal for me to educate the public about one of the greatest Martial Arts Systems created by a genius and martial arts legend because it is very well documented as are all of his achievements. It is very difficult for you to back up false arguments with any kind of proof you only end up with layered lies that fall apart as soon as one part is revealed to be false and you have no achievements to speak of, just hot air.

  1229. My name is Sami Ibrahim, I have served for over ten years in the United States Army, I have been involved with Kenpo for 26 years, I have successfully used Kenpo multiple times to survive violent altercations, I have trained corrections officers, law enforcement and military members who have also successfully applied Kenpo to survive violent altercations. I have traveled the world and cross referenced Kenpo with martial arts practitioners from hundreds of different systems and this joint collaboration has yielded numerous insights for all involved. I have also traveled to throw downs and met up with practitioners that I originally met on the internet, some of whom used to run their mouths like Robert Libby and after our matches ended they had a change of tune. This is not the first time that I accepted a challenge issued by a keyboard warrior only to have him link out of the match. It is no big deal some people simply have no heart. I will continue to spread the teachings of Mr. Parker, I will continue to be very easy to find, I will continue to maintain an internet presence that lets people from around the world reach out to me any time. After I retire from the Military I will likely be opening a Kenpo school and you can bet the address will be all over the internet so finding me will always be easy for anyone who has the backbone to come see what effective Kenpo looks like. On that note carry on spreading your lies and agenda and I will keep exposing the lies to the light of truth. Peace my keyboard warriors!

  1230. So um I met Sami via challenge match… I was pretty sure he was an asshole.till.after we fought. He showed up. He did good. We r pals now. And yes I’m pretty sure Ron at SSF would let them.spar whoever they liked. They let me show up and take a beating. Sami will show up. I can vouch for that.

  1231. Looking forward to our next bout Sal!

  1232. First off Sal, this wasn’t going to be s “sparring” match.
    And Sami “doing good” ain’t good enough.
    Now, on to the “military mouth”.
    Are you stupid or mentally incapacitated?
    Didn’t I tell you to keep my name out of that fucking trap of yours?
    Another thing jerk off, I did not harass Ron your buddy, the same guy that laughed when I told him about your challenges on the forum.
    And I have no intention of harassing Ron either.
    Any call would be for informational purposes only.
    Your pressing your luck by continuing to open up your mouth and talking about people you have absolutely 0 business offending with your words and the stench that spews from your dentist needing dentures.
    Since your favorite pastime is web browsing look up Tommy Pitera and Greg Scarpa.

  1233. My neighbor who is a young 38 year old athlete with no prior health issues just had a heart attack(earlier today)while trimming his lawn!
    Goes to show me, as it should all that life’s too short and sacred to be wasting playing “kiddie” games with people that think they know it all.
    My accomplishments easily surpass those of guys like Kenpo Soldier and the other “cronies” here that lay claim to Kenpo excellence :–)
    To those here that kiss up to American and Parker Kenpo and like to reference their service as proof that they are bad asses, GET WITH THE PROGRAM!
    The sight of a perfectly healthy individual going into cardiac arrest was sufficient for me to stop wasting time verbally sparring some imbecile who thinks he’s tough.
    More like “SHE’S” NOT TOUGH.

  1234. I am new to the Martial Arts and due to numerous reasons will be attempting to learn Kenpo through books and videos.
    I know it is not the preferred method but I plan to dedicate myself and put in the time to become as proficient as one can get by self learning.
    Can anyone here suggest the 2-3 best video courses that offer instructions by respected teachers?
    I can then pick one of them.
    Much thanks for any help.

  1235. IKCA Kenpo. Visit http://www.karateconnection.com for more info.

  1236. Thank you.
    I went to it and liked what I read.
    Ordering the entire course tomorrow.
    The guy was real nice and said that I could get it for $125.00 and he would waive the shipping and postage costs.

  1237. That’s Vic LeRoux you spoke to. Great guy and instructor. You’ll see plenty of him in the videos. It’s a dated training series(it was recorded in the 80’s). BUT the breakdown and explanation is amazing.

    If you have any questions, don’t hesitate to ask me or contact someone in the organization.

    Have fun! Osu!

  1238. My cousin was suppose to join me as a learning partner, now he said he has no time.
    Any advice on how to make the most of the course without having someone to work with?

  1239. Within IKCA in the vids, there is great training and advice, but nothing beats having a partner obviously. Find IkCA on Facebook and ask questions anytime. We can further assist you in ways to make your training even more effective, realistic, and strong.

  1240. Which of these would be better to sub for my cousin and try to learn the stuff
    Something called bob opponent bag or a simple punching type bag?
    The package should arrive by monday or maybe on tues.
    Sorry to be bothering with so many questions.
    Should I buy a uniform or can I do everything in sweats?
    This is all kind of new to me and I want to get it right.
    Thank you so much.

  1241. Hey, hey it’s Day and I’m here to say…No way!
    Why is the soup guy fighting an army man because he can?
    No no he is stupid and mean a real queen.
    The army is great but with kenpoo it’s way more mate.
    Mondongo the soup guy is talking like an i tale lion but he’s a nasty tasting soup that gives your butt an ache so my vote is for s a the k s!
    Now stop the doo doo cause all of you must be true hoo hoo.
    Happy hallows ween fother mockers!

  1242. Addressing LOPFERT HILLY, I mean Robert Libby:
    You say that Vunak was better than Edmund K.
    Yet, your videos while having substance don’t show any Kune Do, just basic parry and strikes.
    Can you post an advance techniques video that will serve notice upon the Kenpo Loyalists who have not appreciated your history with the system and it’s founder?
    You have to be high ranked black belt just on the amount of years you have been into the Martial Arts.
    Give us something more.
    In your professional opinion is there anything of value in any of the Kenpo
    systems that would transfer to your domain the street?
    I happen to be a 3rd Degree Black Belt in American Kenpo, a 3rd kyu brown in Shito Ryu, and an honorary black in Aki-Jitsu.
    All of these styles work very effectively when needed.

  1243. So you respond to me with zero respect and then want advice?
    Any decent green belt was vastly better than Ed Parker! The video clips of him prove that.
    Get this through your brainwashed Kenpo skull- THERE ARE NO ADVANCED TECHNIQUES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    That is bullshit invented by con men that teach Kenpo. And there is no grafting or any of this other pseudo-scientific horseshit taught in Kenpo! EPAK is a shit system and over 90% of the techniques when there were 128 were disasters. So now there 178 shitty techniques. Now that;s progress!

  1244. So you respond to me with zero respect that I deserve and then want advice?
    Any decent pink belt such as myself was vastly better than Ed Parker, which is why I have no students, following, or recognition by other martial artists! The video clips of Ed Parker prove something, I’m not sure what. The video clips of me with Garfield, however, prove I am a superior martial artist. My slow motion techniques against no resistance and plenty of talking and likes on YouTube prove my point!!!!!!
    Get this through your brainwashed Kenpo skull- THERE ARE NO ADVANCED TECHNIQUES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    That is bullshit invented by con men that teach Kenpo. I am definitely not a conman who would ever claim superiority in martial arts and show absolutely nothing supporting that in my videos. And there is no grafting or any of this other pseudo-scientific horseshit taught in Kenpo! EPAK is a great system that many people all over the world follow. The Libby system is followed by 1 person, me, and most of it is in my mind. Now that;s progress!

  1245. Mr. Libby why follow up your first response hours later with a joke duplicate?
    I don’t understand what is going on the here.
    This forum is messed up.
    It’s mostly bad post and fighting, why?
    The site moderator should be embarrassed by what he allows to be said here.
    This is the worse forum I’ve ever been on.
    And to continuously talk bad about a guy who died but was a master of his art is sad.
    Let the man rest in peace with some dignity.
    To Mr. Parkers son and family if you ever read this I apologize for what others have said negatively.

  1246. The “duplicate” is not me. Read some of these and you will see a cult in action.

  1247. Your conduct is a disgrace to Progressive Fighting Systems community and JKD in general. How dare you bring my name into your bullshit to add legitimacy to your own issues with Ed Parker. Your videos bashing other arts are a sure sign that you learned nothing in your journey and certainly nothing from me. If it was not for Ed Parker, Bruce Lee would never have explored beyond the realm of Chinese Gung Fu, their would be no JKD. Robert Libby my phone number is 530-532-0649 if you want to use my name to add to legitimacy to your childish conduct give me a call and I WILL SET YOU STRAIGHT!

    Just so we are clear the Progressive Fighting Arts have no issues with the Kenpo community, we are brothers and sisters in the fighting arts and it is with the greatest respect that I apologize for any association Robert Libby has made using my name without permission to lend any kind of credibility to his claims. It is clear from his videos that the man has no real skill, he is just a loud mouth cocksucker and should be disregarded by all!!!

    ~PV

  1248. If this post by PV is legit, I would be crapping myself if I were Robert Libby.
    For PV to come here and let people know he ain’t to happy with his name being mentioned means his is passed off.

  1249. This is not Vunak. People here love to put in false posts. Some here do not even spell my lat name correctly when they say it is me. Paul Vunak has referred to the way people teach knife defense as “irresponsible. Paul Vunak also had a video up where a group is doing martial arts and it says “doesn’t this look silly with what we know today?”
    This is from an interview with Paul Vunak from fighting.net/paul-vunak/. Notice that he tore up his certificates and said all his training in Kenpo and TKD was worth nothing. He stated that with his 2 black belts and a quarter he could buy a cup of coffee- he is hardly praising traditional martial arts.

    PFS: What was that like? PV: I remember there were some dividers separating the classes. Most people don’t know, but the old Kali Academy used to teach Kenpo Karate as well as Jeet Kune Do and Kali. I remember showing up on a Saturday afternoon during which there were no formal classes, just free workout time. I decided to spar with someone to confirm that this was indeed the school for me. PFS: What was the result of this encounter? PV: I picked the biggest, most serious-looking guy in the school and asked him if he would spar with me. My adrenaline was pumping and I was bent on taking this guy out. I also remember hitting this guy with a backfist…that’s the last thing I remember! When I woke up there was a bunch of guys staring down at me, and I remember my first words were, “Sign me up!” PFS: Did you ever meet up with this guy again? PV: (laughing) Yeah, we became friends and trained very hard together. His name was Torrance Mathis. I remember after he kicked my ass all over the gym, I had car trouble and he drove me home. I sat on my bed staring at a wall full of trophies and certificates until, in tears, I ripped every certificate off my wall. I vividly remember my Mom walking in during my adolescent emotional outburst and asking what happened to my face.
    When I told her she said, “So I guess those two black belts and a quarter will get you a cup of coffee.”
    HERE IS A LINK TO PAUL VUNAK ON KNIFE PHILOSOPHY WHERE HE CALLS TRADITIONAL MARTIAL ARTS TEACHERS”IRRESPONSIBLE.”
    https://youtu.be/mk-EVLyIpts

    So Paul Vunak is saying exactly what I am saying.

    Also from Paul Vunak in a Black Belt magazine article dated March, 1991, page 8:
    “It’s a tragic and familiar comic tale; a black belt with years of training is beaten in a fight by an untrained streetfighter. It is my purpose in this tape to help you avoid becoming a martial artist who knows techniques but cannot fight with them. Regardless of your style techniques do not win a street fight. The victor is the fighter who possesses the superior mix of attributes, the qualities of killer instinct, sensitivity, timing, reflexes, speed, power, etc… This is what made Bruce Lee what he was, and this is why JKD is so difficult to convey to the public.
    Paul Vunak

    This is about half of the quote as the rest is a promotion of one of Paul Vunak’s DVDs.
    Hardly glowing words about traditional martial arts!
    I will call the number ad see if it is really Vunak. I doubt that it is.

    • Robert Fibby wrote

      “So Paul Vunak is saying exactly what I am saying.”

      No, and he is not training out of breath in slow motion in his living room with an untrained, nonresisting opponent either.

  1250. If this is Paul Vunak I have some info for you. I just reviewed all of my videos. I mentioned you one time om #11 and all I said was that you do not do MMA as you train for the street and not sporting events.
    In any posting I have ever made about you, Tom Cruse,PAt Lachman, Dan Inosanto, or Larry Hartsell it has been with the utmost respect so you are way off base. I have also defended your reputation on the Internet. If you doubt what I am sating contact Duane Yoshito Walden who used to call me Sifu when I trained him in Chico, CA. And even Ton Cruse once told me he had heard good things about me from other PFS people.
    Did you actually watch all my videos or are you listening to what somebody is saying to you? All of what I am teaching is fact based and vaild. Sorry, but there are just too may frauds out there and I feel people do need to speak up about it.
    I will call you later as it is 4:00am in California. I am in Thailand at it is a 14 or 15 hour difference.

  1251. Mr. Libby, if my student Paul really did enter into this it is because you are bad mouthing our highly respected instructor Ed Parker. I tell you in all honesty that Ed Parker did in fact work out, train and even spar with the best of them, He could more then hold his own, in case you did not know, it was Ed Parker who urged me to pursue the Filipino martial arts at a time when I thought that they only consisted of stick fighting he stated “There is so much more!” and it was thanks to him that I met Bruce Lee. If the greats like Ivan LeBell, Masutatsu Oyama and Bruce Lee thought of Ed Parker as a phenomenal martial arts instructor and honorable man at least consider it,

    Ed Parker had the right to kick out anyone he wanted to kick out from his organization to include your instructor. I dislike this kind of political garbage when it comes to Martial Arts but I was there in the beginning, I can tell you that Ed Parker was phenomenal but he was very selective about what he showed on camera, people would come to him with little to no martial arts experience, he would share his knowledge with them and they would prove disloyal in the end so he became very secretive with his own progress and even purposely executed some material wrong on camera or if people were taking pictures he would throw off his stance by a few degrees so that when his competitors inevitably tried to copy him they ended up with an inferior method. If you made it to Ed Parker’s inner circle you still only got the portion of his art that he felt best suited you, he played on his students strengths and tailored his art to each student, That is why their are so many different variations even among his direct students. Ed Parker’s mastery of the blade was a sight to behold, he was a creative genius but he could not even bring himself to write a book on the subject for fear it would fall into the wrong hands. Ed Parker was a deeply religious, family man, an excellent instructor, the founder of his own Martial Art and a dangerous brawler who often remarked that he did not give a dam about going down with good form, its likely that all the knowledge you possess about Kenpo comes from someone who studied with one of Ed Parker’s direct students. Ed Parker was the real deal and one of my beloved instructors. It pains me to see you libel a man who is no longer with us to present the other side of the full story.

  1252. I am going to keep this brief, I was asked by a close friend to share my opinion of Ed Parker based on my interactions with him, specifically if I can attest to his fighting competency: Yes, Ed Parker was a down right scary fighter, his movements were so powerful they would shake the building and his speed was inhuman. I don’t recall which International I was at where one of the visiting instructors stepped up to Ed Parker over a disagreement about a match and made the mistake of putting his hands on him, the man was knocked senseless in a split second and Ed Parker was already off taking care of business. I’d tell you what he did except it was too fast for me to see it but I did hear what sounded like two thuds and saw a blur of hand movement, the instructor fell into a seated position, pale as a ghost.

  1253. WOW! You Kenpo guys are getting desperate! The Paul Vunak number is a fake as I have called it like 30 times, and now you put up a fake Dan Inosanto post! And I do not believe Ed was ever Paul’s instructor- Paul did not study EPAK. And one of you referred to Dan Inosanto as a “wimp!” I would beat your ass for that.
    From a bio about Paul:

    Paul Vunak was born in October 1960, in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania. He lived there until 1970, when his family moved to Long Beach, California.

    At the young age of 7, Paul began his interest in the martial arts. By age 10, he started studying Tae Kwon Do. And by 14, he achieved his first black belt.

    Next, Paul began exploring other styles, such as Kempo and Hung Gar (Tiger Crane) Gung Fu. Within 3 years, he earned a 2nd black belt, in Kempo. More importantly, Paul discovered his life calling: To turn his love for the martial arts into his work.
    Then, in August of 1976, the school where Paul studied Kempo closed. So, he decided to investigate another school he had been hearing about, the Filipino Kali Academy. One look and it was “love at first site”. During a 3 month waiting period, Paul became the school pest, showing up every day to observe unauthorized. Then, he began studying Bruce Lee’s Jeet Kune Do, under the guidance of Lee’s top student Dan Inosanto.

    You fools seem to forget that I was there also. I was there in the 1960s and there more than almost anybody so you can tell all the lies you want to.
    But what is so tragic is the depths you will go to, and I have always used only one name and put my ass on the line while you clowns make up fake screen names and say you are other people! Now that is pathetic.

    And in closing I can assure you that Vunak would be far more pissed about calling Dan a wimp than anything I have ever said! But whenever I use facts you Kenpo lunatics go to lies and identity theft.
    But if you doubt me call the Vunak number posted- it is a fake! I actually talked to him and he did answer the 5304035865 number on his website. He has no videos at this time but they will be ready in 2 months! I will order them at that time! Odd that he would answer that number on a Sunday 9:00am but not his supposed “home phone number.”

  1254. WOW! Are Bill Wallace, Benny Urquidez, Joe Lewis from the grave, and others coming up next? How about the ghost of Larry Hartsell?
    And what a lie! Ed dropped a guy for touching him- that would be insane and it never happened! But keep lying! It is what Kenpo does best!
    THIS IS ABSOLUTELY MY LAST POST EXCEPT TO MONFONGO! THANK YOU FOR PROVING ALL MY POINTS AS TO WHAT SNAKES EPAK PEOPLE ARE!

  1255. Really your carrying on conversations with yourself now. I am Robert Libby, I don’t know who this other guy is using my name but your a lying snake. Yes it is true that I used to make videos about how bad kenpo techniques are but after I got my ass kicked by a girl who was only a yellow belt practitioner in Kenpo I gave my life a long hard look, I know longer put my hands on girls without permission and I don’t talk bad about Kenpo so whoever this fake Robert Libby is trying to stir up trouble go fuck your self! To the Kenpo community please don’t come after me I really have changed and don’t run my mouth any more, someone is pretending to be me to get me into trouble.

  1256. Look guys I am on medication for split personality disorder sometimes I think I am chuck norris or dan the man or paul vunak because as a fat, out of shape, loud mouth with no ability I have always envied those guys, I even have a bruce lee tramp stamp tattoo and I moved to Thailand because everyone looks like Bruce Lee. So cut me some slack when I carry on pretending to be other people I am a lunatic after all.

  1257. Robert,
    I wonder if the real Vunak, Norris, and Inosantos have any recourse to having their names used within the context of this forum and arguments without their consent.
    As per yours, I will only answer and respond to you.
    I wonder who this last fake was that used your name.
    Hate to point fingers, but it could be anyone of the heartless detractors from past to present.
    The only thing you can do at this point is ignore these dirtbags and move on.
    Take care my good friend.

    • And to the person using my name within the context of this forum, how DARE you! I am the great Monfongo, king of all the pink and rainbow belts. I will unleash pain you have never seen using techniques like squeeze the peach, poopnado, and monkey shouts loudly. Come test me!!!!!!!!!!

  1258. Monfongo, what they fail to realize is that by using other people’s names they prove all my points, that Kenpo is a worthless with lots of cult members. And anybody can see how absurd the posts are as when he states that Chuck Norris said “Ed was powerful the building shook.” And yes, Ed knocked a guy out at the Internationals but Norris can’t remember when- I believe that! They come off as brain dead fools. And they are so mentally deficient that they never even check their facts. I feel that the one Vunak told about crying and tearing his certificate off of the wall says so much. And his mother saying that with his 2 black belts and 25 cents he could get a cup of coffee!
    I am doing a new video in a few days. The King of Thailand just died and here that is HUGE! TV has all 4 normal stations playing 24 hours of tribute everyday to him for a month! So we are are all in a holding pattern! It’s like Jesus dying. He is called “The Living Buddha” and some Thais have told me “he is nearly a God.” Now that’s intense!
    Gracias as always amigo!

  1259. I read about it in the local paper.
    Look forward to your new video also.
    Can you believe that these goofball post their rhetoric immediately after you post something?
    It’s all a game with these retards.
    A while back I directed an old school karateka from NYC to your YouTube videos and he thought they were excellent.
    This guy’s been around and is pretty well known in the arts.
    He asked me to keep his name out as he doesn’t want to be dragged through the mud like you and I have been.

  1260. I totally understand his point!But I am glad he liked the videos.

  1261. Wow, this must be one of longest discussions I have read to do with one individual (Mr. Parker) in a web forum for 20 years! It took forever to simply scroll down to the bottom so I could add my two cents. Anyway, I’m not going to get into the argument portion of this discussion since I do not know any of you people. However, I have a very interesting story to tell concerning Mr Parker’s Kenpo in a real life situation. Here goes … I was studying Kenpo in a studio in the back of Rulon Jones’ (ex NFL player) gym on 12th street in Ogden, Utah in about 1989-91 with my good friend Manase Tuatagaloa (Mace). Our instructor was a 3rd degree black belt named Tugi Papalitele (also known as Pule Alo), a friend of Mace’s. Tugi was a student of the very formidable Kenpo Master, Paul Mills out of Evanston, Wyoming, both of which had the priviledge to train directly under Mr Parker from time to time over their martial arts career(s). Incidentally, when my Dad was a child, he used to deliver the local newspaper to Mr Mill’s father in Evanston. Anyway, I attended a seminar in our studio which was a blackbelt advancement event hosted by Mr Mills and suffice it to say, Mr Mills was/is a very formidable individual. If you don’t believe me, ask my brother in law how his cheek felt after a finger whip to the face from Mr Mills! Snap, crackle and pop! I’ve never seen handspeed and perfect footwork on this level before or since, Wow. (Mr Mills is a national quickdraw pistol champion as well). Anyway, we used to all play a pickup basketball game in the gym every thursday before class with Rulon Jones and some of his gym members. On this particular occassion, one of Mr Mills members was playing on our instructor, Tugi’s team. Well to cut a long story shirt, this particular individual was a terrible basketball player and everytime anyone of his teamates passed him the ball, no matter where he was on the court, would launch the ball immediately, never even coming close to making a basket. Well, Tugi got tired of the shenanigans and being the point guard, would never pass him the ball thereafter. This obviously upset this individual profusely, as I will illustrate below. So, the game was finished, Mace and his young son, Tugi and myself retired into the studio for a postgame chat innocently shooting the breeze, when out of nowhere came ‘Larry Bird’ the ball launcher in a rage screaming at Tugi concerning his previous lack of balltime on the court. He was ranting and raving about things such as, ‘you think your a tough guy karate instructor’, ‘I’m not afraid of you’, ‘I’ve been a bouncer’, blah blah blah, flowered with many expletive unmentionables in front of a child, to which Tugi very professionally and calmly asked the gentleman to leave the studio several times. However, this clown and fool, as will be shown shortly, was having none of it. He continued his tirade until the perpetual line had been crossed an Tugi sprang out of his chair and into action. He proceeded to perform, I use the term ‘perform’ purposely as it was nothing short of a real life ‘performance’ of Kenpo technique in action, by masterfully demonstrating the ‘Five Swords’ technique on this numbskulls body with devastating effect. This individual, the self proclaimed bouncer, was one hundred percent at the mercy of Tugi and was totally and utterly immobilised. When the ‘real life’ demonstration was completed, the ‘opponent’ was literally in tears asking Tugi to, ‘please, please stop …. I’m sorry, I’m sorry…’. Now, let me tell you for the record, as I was there and could feel the energy as thick as thieves all around, Kenpo DOES work to perfection in the real world, Kenpo IS formidable and is most definitely a force to be reckoned with. I have no axe to grind in this discussion, I have nothing to gain from siding with Mr Parker and his system. However, this did happen, I was there, it is a fact and is a testament to the effectiveness of Mr Parkers Kenpo techniques in action. They do work, they are devastating when used as prescribed and any fool who believes otherwise may suffer the consequence at some point in their lives. I must mention two caveats to round out this story. After it was all over, I asked Tugi why it was that he did not use clenched fists in the fight, preferring to use open hands, and he said, ‘I didn’t want my liability insurance premiums to go up by breaking the guy to pieces’!!! Awesome. Secondly, as Tugi was a former student and fellow Polenesian of Mr Parker’s, Mr Parker was coming to Utah in January of ’91 or ’92 to host a seminar at our studio, but to the utter dismay of all of us students, he passed away from a heart attack at Honolulu airport the day he was leaving for Utah. Needless to say, we were so excited to see a true legend but never were to realise the priviledge. To Mr Parker and his legacy, I salute you. God bless you, your family and students all over the planet. Thanks for your time, Anson.

    p.s. my friend served as a missionary in the Anaheim area in the 80’s and used to eat at Mr Parkers home on Sunday’s, after church. He said right as you walked into his home, you would see one of Elvis’s capes encased in glass above on the wall. He also said Mrs. Lelani’s food was legendary. Cool …

    p.p.s BTW way, I, like Mr Parker, am LDS (Mormon), and can testify that it is a wonderful way to live your life and raise a family. We believe in respecting all peoples beliefs, or non beliefs for that matter, and never sanction derogatory opinions concerning ones religion as a certain individual has in this discussion. Very telling …

  1262. Very nicely put and you sound credible.
    If those before you would take the time to express themselves in a similar manner instead of basing Robert and then me for siding with him the forum would have more benefits to those coming here to get positive feedback and learn things.
    With all the damage that’s been done I can’t see turning back the clock and all of us getting along for the benefit of the arts and effective methods as those talked about and posted on YOUTUBE by Robery Libby.

  1263. Robert,
    Neither of the two post before was posted by me.
    Once again, it’s the kenpo Klan.
    And now it seems they are trying to screw with our friendship.
    I would enjoy punching a hole through their mouths.
    Sick and tired of these nobodies stiring up trouble.
    At least kenpo soldier knew when to call it a day.

  1264. No worries! Your posts have logical analysis and some class, and I know a snake when I see one and these fools are snakes!

  1265. Kenpo is bullshit! Not one person in the history of Kenpo has successfully used it to win a fight, not even one and that is because it is dysfunctional as Hell. Ed Parker is a clown, a fat, out of shape clown who couldn’t last one minute in a real fight. All of his students are also jokes, just look at how many fat out of shape so called masters that were students of Ed Parker. Even Dan Inosanto was a joke until he left to train with Bruce Lee. Nobody who studies Kenpo can fight. Its like my friend Robert says in his videos the techniques cant work, they leave you wide open for simple boxing counters that anyone with real experience would see with a glance. I pity all these Kenpo kult members, these snakes who buy into Ed Parker’s bullshit. I am willing to take on any one in Kenpo, bring me your best Kenpo snakes I will fight any of you, just like I would have fought Kenpo Soldier if we had met up, he would have been destroyed, just because you fight in a few war and serve for over a decade as a Soldier don’t mean your a bad ass who knows how to fight, especially if you do Kenpo, I don’t buy the bull shit that Mike Pick trained 10th Special Forces group anyone can make false claims and Mike Pick is a Jew so you really can’t trust shit he says. Special Forces would never be caught dead doing Ed Parker’s bullshit Kenpo!

  1266. Hey dip shit, you got a problems with Jews fuck you I will krav maga all over your bitch ass!

  1267. Krav Maga is just as worthless as Kenpo and I don’t have a problem with jews because I don’t trust them to begin with, I live in New York so you can understand what I have to deal with!

  1268. When I was a little boy I studied Kenpo with a guy who went by the name Sensei Dalton and when I went to go use the bathroom he came up behind me and lets just say he did something horrible to me so if your wondering why I know that Kenpo people are snakes now you know and I don’t need your pity, I told Ed Parker and he kicked Dalton out but that didn’t help the stitches I needed or the pain when I sat down!

  1269. So let me get this straight, your talking shit about the thousands of people that train Kenpo and Ed Parker because you got raped by this dalton person when you were in Kenpo class despite Ed Parker kicking dalton out of his organization as soon as you told him what happened, I don’t believe any of the shit your saying man STFU please!

  1270. Dalton was my Kenpo teacher for the six years and I earned the rank of Master Instructor in Kenpo under him and he never ones raped me, that is bullshit lies Monfongo tell me that they are impersonating you and your not really claiming Dalton was kicked out of the IKKA for being a predator because if that is what your claiming I cannot find anything else you say credible, your a fucking liar!

  1271. You know what Monfongo I am not going to let you feel alone, I am sorry what your saying is true, I too was raped and that is where my hate for Kenpo comes from I don’t care that Ed Parker kicked out his predator the damage was already done, Ed Parker should have screened his instructors better I still have nightmares from what Dalton did to me, I fucking hate you Kenpo snakes!

  1272. Noah, this is the real Robert Libby. Many now just post in my name and lie. They are referring to Paul Dalton who is one of my best friends and I taught for him. Defending his honor is what got all of this started and you can read that at the beginning of this thread.
    Also, I am Jewish. The real family name is Libitsky and my family were Ukrainian Jews, though I was adopted. My mother, aunt, and grandmother were survivors of a pogrom near Kiev.
    This type of bullshit is why I do not go on this thread anymore. I also believe they are lying as to it being Monfongo to stir up shit.
    I will comment on this on my next video Bad Kenpo techniques 24 and you can see the real Robert Libby sort this out and not a pack of losers.
    I really hate posting here due to the fact tha these kenpo people are mentally ill. And Dan Inosanto was always a bad ass and I do not believe Monfongo would bad mouth him.

  1273. Inosanto could never really fight. As proof of this, where are the videos of him doing slow motion non-aggressive techniques against a non-resisting opponent named Garfield in his living room? Libby provides this evidence of real combat training that Navy Seals and Green Berets use, Inosanto doesn’t, even after asking him several times, and offering to pay for his flight, hotel, gi, buffet, new socks, as well as a haircut. Inosanto couldn’t hold a candle to Libby.

  1274. Hey I don’t know which of you Kenpo clowns called the royal military medical school trying to get information on my daughter and trying to track me down I live near the mountains of Thailand near Burma, if you ass clowns think your going to show up at my door and kick my ass while your buddies video record it you should check Thailands laws, I will call the police if I see any of you Kenpo punks come near me or my daughter and these Thai police don’t play around!

  1275. You Kenpo assholes don’t know when to stop! I would kick all your asses but I have a bad heart, I can’t fight any more even though I know all of the weaknesses of all of the Kenpo techniques I am an old man can’t you just leave me alone and don’t involve my daughter in this, she has nothing to do with this!!

  1276. Real funny assholes leaving a box of Larry Tatum’s Kenpo DVDs at my door, I already know the system fuck all of you Kenpo clowns, I am calling the Thai police, they will check your box for finger prints in an international data base, hope you like prison assholes!

  1277. Libitsky! you really were using a fake name and now that I know your jewish I regret ever defending you, I am stepping out of this mess Jew, your on your own , I Shihan Mendoza withdraw my support for Libitsky, we done bitch don’t call me and ask me to fight your fights for you again!

  1278. Robert,
    I was out of town and just came on to find out that some sleeve is using me!
    My last post was October 31 at 3:08 PM.
    First off, I have nothing but respect for the Jewish culture and it’s people.
    I’ve worked for them and have close friends that are Jewish.
    My experiences with them has been superb.
    And, my feelings toward Krav Maga are very positive.
    This bullshit is being posted by anyone of the scumbags of the past and I wouldn’t be surprised if Kenpo Soldier is behind it.
    I dare whoever the kenpo Klan member behind this to post a name and phone number.
    Grow some balls you fucking sissy and come out of the closet.
    My message to YOU whoever you are is….look up Pitera and Scarpa.

  1279. I never thought it was you for a second. And can you believe they badmouthed a class act like Dan Inosanto! What punks, but typical for this system.

  1280. I never thought it was you as you have some dignity and class!

  1281. I do I love Jewish people especially Jewish women those big noses let them do amazing things with their mouths and still breath.

  1282. Don’t involve me in all this bullshit. I left you alone when I suspected you had mafia ties because that is not a group I wish to offend. If Robert Libby has an issue with Ed Parker or Kenpo Karate techniques that is his burden. I love Ed Parker for creating such an effective system and my techniques work just fine, I guess I am just lucky I had a good teacher and a willingness to accept responsibility for my own progress instead of laying blame on ideas or others.

    If their are Kenpo practitioners using your names and saying all this crazy and disrespectful stuff, please stop, don’t stoop to the level of people who use fake names, please keep your heads above the bullshit.

    V/R
    Sami Ibrahim

  1283. I am going to publicly apologize for bringing up Kenpo Soldier in my previous post.
    Sami thanks for telling “whoever” is stirring to cease the fictitious posting.
    Maybe your the guy this individual respects enough to listen and stop the BS.

  1284. Apology accepted. The shots at Robert Libby’s religion, roots or family is crossing the line. The stuff about Paul Dalton is disgusting, If anyone is doing this for my sake please stop immediately I am a big boy I can stand up for myself, don’t behave in this dishonorable manner.

    V/R
    Sami Ibrahim

  1285. Ned Brockenheim, IKCA Brown Belt

    Addressing the 3 stooges involved in arguments.
    Libby, Monfongo, Ibrahim.
    I found all of you fascinating, funny, and totally obnoxious.

  1286. This comment section has so many people using fake names and making fake claims, Ned is not a member of the IKCA or a Kenpo practitioner at all because members of the IKCA know how to conduct themselves and would not be caught dead trash talking any Kenpo Seniors.

    V/R
    The Management

  1287. Ed Parker’s Kenpo is one of the most effective martial art on Earth in the hands of a skilled practitioner. Unfortunately, the vast majority of Kenpo practitioners don’t condition, focus their sparring on winning tournaments and generally can’t last three minutes with a good boxer. Many of the people running these Kenpo schools are in it for the money, they teach a family friendly, keep the customer happy, good job Timmy Kenpo that will never be trained to the point of being functional in a real violent altercation and that saddens me.

    Kenpo can be a ruthless, brutal method of taking out an adversary in the blink of an eye but that requires surviving the initial surprise assault, when you don’t know what the attack will be or when it will be initiated and after the Kenpo practitioner survives they have to have trained their basics to such a degree that without any thought they execute with dynamic stopping power that stops any further attacks and leaves the attacker helpless and ready for the finish. That takes hard work to develop, to be able to take a hit and still keep your mental and physical balance and recover quick enough to take care of business, most of the Kenpo colored belts can’t do that and only about half of the black belts approach that level, the rest are playing at it, part time hobby types who are better off doing something else.

  1288. I AM A MEMBER OF IKCA KENPO.
    HAVE THE DVDS. TESTED FOR BROWN, AND I have a membership too.
    Don’t ever doubt me.
    Kenpo is effective if you train and believe in the system.
    But you people arguing ALL of You not just Libby, Monfongo, or Ibrahim gotta go!
    No more disrespectful commentary guys.
    Be good kenpoists and not obnoxious jerks.

  1289. I AM NOT A MEMBER OF IKCA KENPO.
    HAVING THE DVDS, BUYING A BROWN BELT DOES NOT MAKE ME A MEMBER.
    Glad you doubted me.
    Kenpo is not effective if you learn it from video.
    Libby Monfongo and Ibrahim gotta go or Chuck Sullivan and Vic are going to find and do bad things to you.
    Hope you enjoy my disrespectful, more holly than you attitude, I Ned am an obnoxious jerk and hypocryt.

  1290. What do people think about Paxtial Arts, created by the invincible Ed Parker Jr.?
    GOOGLE IT.
    Second, how many, 10,000 or 50,000 street fights has Libbly been in? I’m thinking with his skills at least 25,000, but no more than 17,000 of them ended with a KO due to liver shot.

  1291. What a bunch of pathetic punks!
    Years of bitching back and forth with very few of you providing an end to the worthless comments.
    The three or four involved in arguments take the high road and stop, then reading on a new jerk arrives on November 29th to start up the bullshit.
    Ed Parker Sr. , Kenpo, and it’s contributions have been ruined forever by what has been posted here.
    If there is ever a Martial Arts Hall of Shame you guys deserve to be inducted into it.
    I am so pissed by what I’ve read here, so upset that I got ill, went to the mall to cool off and wound up losing my bowel movement in front of people.

  1292. “Ed Parker Sr. , Kenpo, and it’s contributions have been ruined forever by what has been posted here.”

    Um, not quite Libby. You see, real worldwide legacy vs internet ramblings from an old deluded fat man in Malaysia… and you lose every time.

  1293. Good Morning to everyone here.
    I am Master Igor Kolgoff President of the RKKO.
    The Russian Kenpo Karate Organization.
    Our membership is located in Tenn.
    The system is pure American Kenpo with some System as finish.
    Here to denounce the sissies who argue for many years and nothing come from this.
    And no, we not video learners like basic IKCA dated drills.
    RKKO is real, member all retired Military or Russian Protective Services.
    We, I fear no one here and also inclusive of the one mention Mafia.
    The stop talk on Kenpo authenticity will now no more.
    That order is from Igor.
    Last month call Parker Jr. he very sore in heart for what many here have said bad about pop Ed Sr. AKA the old man.
    Stop now!
    Say no more!
    Only good talk kenpo and Edumund K.
    For my people…abrus gaffer onis molpka desyire salaveo breathkoffskis.

  1294. Good Afternoon kenpo lovers over here in your country.
    In Soviet Russia kenpo fist does you.
    You do not do it but for effort.
    We real staff think Libby has gaseous vapors.
    Proof of this statement is Garfield, not a trained warrior like our competent staffs.
    Yes this!
    Can we agree over this point matter?
    Libby was there but for whom says what?
    Parker was certain there, but again for I repeat what evidences?
    I now reveal Systema is garbage juice. Yes, I do admit this 100%.
    However it is certain said Libby is paper tiger or digital electron tiger.
    Prove me and my staffs wrong I emplore you, kind thanks

  1295. So Libby, can you fight? Teach? Just WTF can you do? What is your martial arts legacy besides being a gas bag?

  1296. This is for the mother’s fucker who post as eyegore.
    You sons of a bitch are shit to Russia Soviet and our Systema.
    If this man Jack Parson is he fuck you too!
    Never again come here but as I go I say to each and all of you mothers fucker come suck my systema prick!!!!!
    Then feast on my Soviet anus!!!!!!

  1297. Mills Crenshaw, contributor to this thread and Kenpo BB, has died.

    MillsCrenshaw.com

  1298. I felt compelled to pass on my condolences to the Crenshaw family as well as his Kenpo colleagues and friends here.
    While he and I had some differences here, I did respect him for standing up for his instructor and mentor Ed Parker.
    A while back I made it clear that I was not going to come back here.
    Something kind of pushed me to check in and I guess it was meant to be a sign so to speak.
    Now that Crenshaw has passed on I think it should send us all a message that the bickering and arguing about what style or art is best should be laid to rest also.
    We would all want to feel amicably respected in our opinions here if and when our time comes, right?
    Maybe Crenshaw would have felt better about what transpired here if we all started to set our differences aside long ago and got along better.
    Poor guy passed away with negative memories of the kenpo debates.

  1299. Monfongo, after reading some of your posts that attacked Ed Parker and Mills Crenshaw on this forum, I doubt that anyone would respect your advice.

  1300. Brooks,
    You may be right, but I posted in complete sincerity.
    Same goes for our battles.
    Water under bridge.
    If your ok with that.
    Same for KenpoJ.
    I do feel badly about Crenshaws passing.

  1301. Despite that news…we can agree there is no video or other evidence of Libblly doing anything great for martial arts whatsoever? Or is there?

  1302. Libby cannot EVER film himself in an actual fight or on the ground. Nope. He’s all talk and bs like the talk and bs he criticises!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  1303. Robert Libby.

    Please cease and desist from talking about American Kenpo. Don’t make me Paxtial arts slow motion kindly take you down to the ground and then dust you off and then buy you dinner and a movie.

  1304. Parker keeps crushing Libby, even after Parker passed away. Libby is old and bitter, fat, no students, no legacy. Sad really.

  1305. I proudly and critically come before you to enlighten those here whose breath reeks of caca.
    This non stop abuse of the Martial Arts, Kenpo in particular, and the Parker legend has incensed me beyond reprehension.
    How dare those blabbers and computer fingerers who talk the smack, but can’t lick that crack?
    Many have chosen to batter Libbe and the followers of his distinguished system because it differs from “Cracker” Kenpo?
    I bet those here who are verbal but unable to crack a fart would NEVER dare to mention ANY member of the BLACK KARATE FEDERATION!
    Those brothers is BADD and would not ingest the foul odors set forth by the instigators who have for many years come here to foul around in the name of Senior Master Ed Parker.
    You pathetic pieces of shit have no shame!
    To me you are the stuff that got stuck on my boots when I went to feed the cows at the barn.
    STOP THE INSANITY!!!
    And to he, who runs this domain and would ingest the stale words of lesser men, like Evelyn Champain King sang….”Shame, shame, shame on you if you can’t get through”.
    Everyone here ALL INCLUDED DISGUST ME!!!!

  1306. Read bekow. These are from Gary Brandolino, a Tom Bleecker black Belt and top student of Dan Inosanto and Larry Hartsell. So here is another old school EPAK black belt verifying my skills and notice he says he remembers me calling Ed Parker as I claimed! Also notice he says I am teaching reality and he never learned how to fight until he got with Dan!
    My legacy? Backing down Kenpo cowards and proving what fraud all of you are! So people who verify what I have claimed- Vic Leroux, Tom Bleecker, Steve Walton, Gary Brandolino, and many more know I backed your Hawaiian punk down as he was a fraud. That is the EPAK legacy- a con game for fools! Choke on it! And they are all in th Kenpo Family Tree!
    Gary Brandolino 6 days ago
    Hey there Robert; Gary Brandolino here. I stumbled upon your videos and have enjoyed them. Sometimes the comments are even more entertaining! I hope this finds you well and I think you are doing a service to all who would like to train and actually be able to fight. I didn’t learn to fight until I trained with Danny in his home in Carson. But you know all this! I don’t know how to get an email to you without all of youtube knowing it. Stay well my friend and keep in touch!?
    Gary Brandolino 5 days ago
    I’m living in Sausalito and work as a personal trainer. I have a private practice and specialize in seniors mostly. Thank you for the compliment Robert and right back at you. What you are teaching is the real deal and I hope you continue to educate others on the practical side of self defense!! By the way, I do remember the phone call you made to Ed from the studio. I just wanted to clear that up since I read it from a transcript you sent out. Again, let me know how i can send you my email so we can correspond off this site. Stay well, my friend!!?

  1307. Master Nick Pettruzelski

    Former 2nd Dan Kenpo here.
    Now practicing American Combat under it’s legendary creator.
    Loved Kenpo but found it to have way too many techniques and forms to be fully functional under real circumstances.
    It is my jobs observation that the individual who called Ed Parker’s bluff is credible.
    An elder Kenpo statesmen from Napa told me last year that he did call Parker out and that he was known as a very good fighter who had both power and skill.
    Unfortunately, Kenpo has way too many “Masters” who advocate the hundreds techniques system as it is a way to make $$$ on testing.
    Not all, but most.
    Real defense only requires a hanfull of effective techniques, proper mindset, and a few practices per week.
    I respect my Kenpo rank, but can’t in good concioncious say it has served me well when needed.
    Thank you gentleman.

  1308. Wow Libbly….some text you pasted in, or probably wrote yourself in the first place. Hey, where are any students of yours? Nowhere to be found. Where are videos of you actually doing anything impressive in the martial arts? – video cameras existed back then. The martial artists you mention, like Inosanto, Leroux, etc., have nothing but praise for Ed Parker. This calls your BS bluff entirely. Please quit pretending on YouTube you have any relevance in the martial arts world because you claim you challenged a martial arts master who passed away decades ago. So you had a disagreement with him and you got made because he ignored you. THAT’S your “legacy”? BWHAHAH!!! Too funny.

  1309. Nesim Blackshear

    As a fifteen year experienced litigator and longtime exponent of Goju Ryu and Savate I think my advice should be respected.
    Any art can be combat effective IF practiced religiously.
    All of you here should know that what is being said is a possible lawsuit.
    Especially the surviving members of Ed Parker’s family can sue and win successfully if they chose to pursue that option.
    As fellow Martial Artists and grown, educate men the time has finally arrived for ALL to cease this before you find yourselves being sued for what could be hundreds of thousands, if not MILLIONS of dollars.

  1310. WOW! Another lying fake fuck Kenpo person!
    Hey, Mr. litigator- go suck a big Kenpo cock!
    You are a fucking liar! In the American legal system for a libel suit or slander suit you have to prove two things. 1. The person lied and 2. Economic damages
    Well guess what fuck head- I didn’t lie and that has now been verified by no less than 5 high ranking black belts who knew Ed Parker on the Internet, witnessed the call, and I half five more if necessary to verify my story! So file a lawsuit asshole!
    You fuckers are pathetic!

  1311. I did not single you out so why have you threatened me?
    My comment and legal opinion was directed to all and made respectfully.
    In addition, I am not a fake kenpo person sir!
    I have a law degree and legitimate credentials in Martial Arts.
    Your behavior, response, and comments toward me were unjustified and totally classless.
    I do not believe nor disbelieve your claims of calling out Ed Parker or his backing down, I don’t care either way.
    What I wanted to point out was basic and applicable law regarding a possible cause of action that surviving family members affected might be able to take.
    Now, you may have been and could still be one formidable individual.
    However, there is one area where you wouldn’t have a chance and that is in the court room and the challenger or opponent being me.
    Stick to self defense advice and steer away from law sir as you will fail miserably.

  1312. So there is no Nasim Blackshear with a national registry of attorneys so why would I believe you? And as so many post here under fake names or falsely use my name why would I believe anything posted here? And an attorney friend of mine who does defamation cases says I have no chance of being sued as I never lied!
    Sorry, go bullshit somebody else!

  1313. Simple…I have no misrepresented myself sir.
    Also, I did not offer my input or mentioned liability to you.
    I never singled you out.
    There are many here, Ed Parker supporters themselves whom you could sue as well as they could you, and the Parker family most who have.
    While your attorney friend may be right, there are some clauses where if the so called truth damages the reputation of family of those defamed or slandered, there could be a cause of action.
    In addition, even if you were guilty to the letter of the law, there would be a tremendous amount of time and red tape to conquer in order to serve you in another country.
    While I must agree that you seem to have been the “scapegoat” and used as an example, you failed to understand that I did not mention you, nor did I single you exclusively.
    Even in your most recent responses there seems to be a hint of malice toward me and all I’ve done is made my opinion know to all here.
    Lastly, I do not bullshit that is why my success rate litigating all types of cases on both the local and federal level is 99%.
    My 1% of unsuccessful litigation has been due to technicalities not due to any incompetence on my part.
    May I suggest that you vent your frustrations on those here that have offended you and not me?
    And, do so without the use of threats or foul language.
    I guarantee you’ll gain more that way then your typical behaviors of the past.

  1314. Hi…I’m Master Ken and I’m here to tell you why Kenpo is BULLSHIT!
    Most Kenpo people wear black uniforms and the one with high rank are FAT SLOBS!
    A certain big, guy from Hawaii was blackballed so he planted his fat ass in the LA are and took advantage of some Chinese Kung-Fu expert who spent his days making up the system that the big bellied silver mane guy took credit for.
    Kenpo is a 300 plus technique system that by the time you master it you will most likely be wearing depends while your home health aid Margarita is wiping your ass with Johnson’s baby wipes.
    All slap happy Kenpo masters are fast and they slap so hard that they leave welt marks on their bodies while their attackers or dojo follow along, step by step compliance happy honeys stand there or fall like the great fakers they are.
    Kenpo people of all ranks, shapes(mostly fat pigs), and sizes hate detractors because they call the biggest Martial Arts bluff American Kenpo.
    And that my friend is why I, Master Ken stands by my TRUTH…KENPO IS BULLSHIT!!!!!!!

  1315. kevin harshman

    master ken,, anytime you care to come to indiana ill give you a personal demostration of how effective kenpo can be

  1316. Hi Kevin!
    This is Master Ken responding to your BULLSHIT post of 3/5.
    You challenged other Kenpo detractors in the past and backed out when they were willing to accept.
    Like most Kenpo slobs you are slightly overweight and have a black uniform.
    Can you please verify anything of value you have achieved other than a black belt in kenpo?
    I don’t like the state of Indiana either.
    Can you travel to Detroit?
    We have excellent ribs and corn bread here.
    And that my threatening Kenpo Kevin is why your system….Kenpo is BULLSHIT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  1317. Where’s Robert Libby?
    Kenpo needs a staple of his community like Lobert Robby.
    The Lobert Robby Self Defense System needs more press.
    Lovett, Lovett, Ribbey :—-(

  1318. Lobby Ribbey, Robert Lovely, Sobert Krippley, Donedirt Dickley
    OH OK Robert Libby Kenpo, The Parkers, and the American Kenpo community simply admires you!
    Sadbert Sickley.

  1319. kevin harshman

    master ken… like all kenpo haters your all talk.. for your info i have a four year college degree.. how about you.. you assholes love to put the art down.. but when confronted have nothing more that insults to offer… should have figured…. you are BULLSHIT

  1320. In response to Mr. Harshman.
    I happen to have a masters in marketing and an associate in language arts so my education IS NOT BULLSHIT.
    In addition I am a grandmaster of the Martial Arts in various styles and systems Mr. Harshman.
    When did you start training?
    Name them….OK
    Shotokan, Shodokan, Goju Ryu, Ata Ma Mu, Taekwon Do, Kenpo, Kempo, Tai Chi, and Kodokan Judo.
    Yup…sure did!
    Now, my highest rank was 5th, but years ago I did the same thing that MANY Kenpo Krazies do….SELF RANK!
    I am a 10th Dan now based on legitimate 5th and many, many years in the others EARNING 2nd-3rds in several.
    I AM MASTER KEN AND I HERBY DECLARE THAT NOT ONLY IS AMERICAN KENPO BULLSHIT, SO IS MR. HARSHMAN.

  1321. like i said words are cheap.. prove im bullshit.. ive been in the arts for 40 years and have rank in jui-jitsu and well as kenpo…ive proven my art works on the street… but since you dont care to meet, your words like you are a empty rant

  1322. OK.
    I took a few days to discuss your nonsense with my superiors and if your ready and willing, then I’m able.
    Are we going to have a Kenpo fight, or will we go full contact doing self defense till one of us drops?
    Or, is this a contest using protection?
    I will cover flight, but you have to put me up in a hotel and at least pay for some food.
    Respond as soon as you Kevin Harsh….oh man!

  1323. I believe Ed Parker would have mopped the floor with this unknown and bitter Libbly person.

  1324. your the one wanting to prove kenpo is bullshit,, im not paying for shit

  1325. Michael Brooks

    Kevin, this isn’t the real Master Ken challenging Kenpo, but just another of a long list of people who won’t give their real names. The real one has some funny videos, and it would be cool if the Kung Fu movies had a video of him before the show. Always remember that Robert Libby is the guy clowning around who had his finger on the receiver hang up button of the old fashioned telephones and appeared to call Ed Parker and threaten him. And anybody who thinks you don’t need all the moves in Kenpo to be effective in a real life situation is just a brawler who gets by until someone throws the extra punch you forgot to train for. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6abY3QghzpY

    • Irish Billy Mack

      Well, well…where you been big mouth?
      Are you still kissing kenpo rectum?
      I’m old and angry now Brooks.
      I could have been the next Jake Paul if you accepted my challenge by turning my beating of you with basic boxing over your Black belt skills, posted on YouTube and turned it into a multi million dollar enterprise.
      I now work in sales struggling to earn 50K a year, live in a studio apt and punch a BOB for practice twice a week.
      Is there any chance for me and you to do a bare knuckle match?
      My boss is good friends with Feldman the guy running BKFC and maybe he can get us on as a preliminary match.
      Let’s make it happen!
      We’ll get global exposure, I get to break my hands and rearrange your looks legitimately and we both get paid.
      I think we can get 20-25K for 6 minutes or less.
      Coming Soon.
      Irish Billy Mack vs Michael Brooks bare knuckle debut.
      Date: TBA
      Don’t miss it!!!!

  1326. Kevin,
    You sure are harsh man!
    I’m paying big bucks to fly United and you can’t cover Burger King and we’ll leave the light on Motel 6?
    For kenpo sake man why you being this harsh?
    Thenone of your pupils comes on here to blab?
    Who in bowels movement is Michael Brooks?
    Probably one of your slap happy yellow belts.
    Expert Harshman I’m Master Ken and I KNOW your bull because you won’t pay for shit.
    Now go back to your academy and give me 3 sets of 47 reps of flowering hands.
    I AM MASTER KEN AND that’s why I’m GREAT.

  1327. Well, well.
    It seems that this Mickey Brooks is a loud mouthed busy body.
    I went back into previous comments and it looks like Mickey likes to get into other peoples business and comment to stir fry things.
    Hey Mick…mind your own business or Mater Ken is going to indoctrinate you into his line of BULLSHIT!
    No!
    Lets get to it….I’m Master Ken and Mickey BOOKS IS FULL OF CACA!!

  1328. Michael Brooks

    Kevin, this is just another wanna be poser imposter. Matthew Page holds black belts in both American kenpo and Okinawan kenpo karate. AKA Master Ken.

  1329. I also hold Black Belts in Aki Jitsu, Waldo Rye, and Zempai Do.
    Mick…stop being a prick, mind your own business.
    Your a degenerate busy body Mickey.
    Let Master Harsh man and me alone.
    Neither of us need you to snoop into our conversation.
    Give it a rest Mickey Crooks.

  1330. Lissen to me karate geeks, no art of materials is fools proofs!
    Naught evens kenpo.
    May opinion of ed Parker is he was excellent and a man likes him bid strons and kenpo master would f up 3-4 people simple.
    What many bad men here done to him is atrocious.
    This great master is dead and you punks haves for years continues to argue and make him looks bad.
    You bad men should go to hells!
    His name from all nasty said things by a bunch of pussy men will never be cleans.
    To most that stuck up for Parker and the kenpo May God’s bless all.

  1331. Good Day Fellow Martial Artists.
    It’s been awhile, but I thought I would start some dialog regarding the upcoming superfight between Connor McGregor and Floyd Mayweather.
    I’ll cut to the chase…Connor is going to make history on August 26th.
    Floyd’s boxing style is one that relies on timing and speed.
    Layoff and age are not conducive to maintaining these attributes.
    To those that believe Connor does not have the boxing experience.
    He has adequate striking skill that when combined with his youth, power, and belief along with his fight activity if Floyd is off, he will get tagged and often enough for McGregor to test Mayweather chin.
    Regardless of what happens, this fight will sink boxing if Floyd loses, is knocked out, or if he wins a decision.
    McGregor may not do well in the ring against other boxers, but he has been stalking Floyd for awhile and in his mind he is going to ko “Money Mayweather”.
    What do you guys think?
    BTW….no more IKCA.
    The head guys are retiring.
    I bet their DVD course will become a collectors item.
    I make that statement respectfully.
    After all, they pioneered the home study Martial Arts arena.
    They had a pretty solid program.

  1332. El Culito De CACA

    Losten you dumb kenpo rappers!
    Geeks like Josh, Soldier, and the other chit chatting non skilled at fighting kenpo kakas sap your unkind words in the John and leave the incomparable Robert Libby solo.
    Now the kenpo community can come lap my polo.
    Soy UN punjes hero y quire chichar a UN anaciano.
    Le pongo tuna peluca y pantaletas para meter mi salchichon UN la vocals De Joshua pestirnir.
    Mical brooks donde Estes pans?
    Kevin harshmamon cinturon color De bowel movement ????????????????

  1333. My admittedly uniformed opinion is that perhaps those on each side of the Parker/Chow debate are correct and wrong. Each had their own personal experiences with Parker and/or his students/instructors. That said the latter students of Parker/Chow training were taught a from of Kenpo without a ‘traditional’ lineage as it was in fact redone and created by Parker/Chow. All belts in that lineage would have little if any lineage to the true kenpo taught by Anko Itosu because of the alleged Chow denial of Mitose who actually trained under Anko. Therefore in fact the new generation of Kenpo is a westernized version not truly rooted in tradition. Neither side can claim pure form since Parker /Chow allegedly changed it in so many ways. As an outsider I believe the Wu (Woo) story as well. The entire argument is from those so close to the tree that perhaps the forest is out of view for them. In review of so much of the published literature; Anko’s students were trained in the original version of Kenpo. Mitose was a student of Anko’s Kenpo. Kenpo is a Japanese word for the Chinese word meaning ‘hand’. My thoughts are for each individual to choose which ‘version’ of kenpo to be aligned with. The traditional Anko Itosu version (Japanese) or the Parker/Chow westernized modern version. Then stick with those who agree with your choice and let go of whom and what you cannot compromise with. You can choose to be a part of a braided cord or a frayed cord. The choice is yours. That said keep in mind a house divided will fall. Therefore build your own house.

  1334. On second thought, the whole lot of you that want to undermine, point fingers, cast blame or throw shade at the others, obviously have too little respect for the art form which teaches adherence to “respect”. Moreover, a man is only as great as his enemy. The lack of respect for one another as members of a culture and an art form seems to be the greater enemy of you all. It would behoove all of you to bow in apology one to another and start over from scratch as an act of true wisdom and humility which trumps all this testosterone chatter which has no victor at all.

  1335. Mr. LA,
    I commend you for suggesting the best way, no the only way to move on.
    I am all for bowing, apologizing, and starting from scratch.
    How about the rest of you?
    I think there are many here who can offer more valuable insight.
    But, we need to move forward.
    Hopefully my good friend Robert is also on board.
    Respect to all.

  1336. I appreciate that, MonFongo. JFYI its Mrs. and I am recently widowed, but close to a friend who is 4th degree Black Belt whose character made it easy for me to love the martial arts. It is a beautiful culture and art form that should be carried on with the respect and dignity from whence it came. Our world is changing men and warriors. Hand to hand fighting may be in the future of this land to protect our homes and families. Carry on with the fighting in the ring and on the mat or the canvas. But I hope you will all come together if the worst case ever comes to us all. After 9/11, I spoke with many regular airline passengers who flew weekly. I asked what they’d do if it happened again. It didn’t matter who they were, what walk of life hey came from or how they competed in business, they all said we agreed and we plan to protect our homes and families. All of you, each and every one regardless of instructor or lineage, are wonderful warriors with strong spirits and much training. Use your best talents on the mats and respect one another with your words. You will have fewer regrets. You may need one another one day. Strength and Wisdom to you all.

  1337. Mrs. LA,
    I welcome you as moderator here.
    Bring us together, and clean the slate for all.
    Maybe you are what has been missing.
    Sifu Joshua P.
    Sad the IKCA is in minor retirement.
    Nice gesture to offer the course free.
    I think we should arrange a get together, food music, drinks.
    We all meet and make amends.
    Would you be interested?
    Maybe early next year.
    We could hold it in Philly, someplace close for all.
    Or, Vegas.
    I believe this can work.
    And Robert can fly in from Thailand too.
    Response if interested and you and I can promote it together.

    • Monfongo my new brother!
      Thank you for the comments.
      If we could make it Vegas, I’d be glad to come if I might be allowed to invite a friend or two? Unlike you gentleman, I’m not so well traveled, a senior, and happier a little closer to home.
      We can create a FaceBook wesbsite if you like, where we can post an ‘all called’ invite and anyone who wishes to com can RSVP here, or there.
      It would be great to meet everyone, and set aside whatever we disagree on, and shake hands in one united talent of this multifaceted art and fighting form.
      Great idea my friend.

  1338. Mrs. LA,
    Sorry for late response but I was traveling and then got involved in raising funds for the recent hurricanes and earthquake relief efforts.
    Let’s see who else responds through this forum for the possible get together , and who if anyone else but you and I would be ok with Vegas.
    Of course you can bring friends!
    Soon as others show interest we can work on Facebook or other way to “jump start” promoting.
    Please post more details pertaining to your background.
    Thanks again!

    • Monfongo,
      Wonderful work. I am excited. It would be great to have a conference/gathering with all invited.
      Facebook would be great. We could tag in a tweet once it is set.

  1339. Greetings from Australia.
    After reading through all those comments one thing that interested me was the connection between Parker and Elvis. Correct me if I’m wrong but Elvis claimed an 8th degree black from Parker and in an interview (Inside Kung Fu??) Elvis claimed Parker skipped a couple of “notches” on Elvis’ belt. Might have been something like 6th straight to 8th…..???? This was in the 70’s so I’m just going by a 63 year old’s memory here! One thing about American Kenpo from what I can see, shake a tree and lots of 10th degrees seem to fall out…… by the way, I’m a Kempo fella and not American Kenpo so I’m not an authority on the style. Kind Regards……

    • It is my understanding that Ed may have done a bit of ‘skipping around. So the Elvis thing is entirely possible, ‘showbiz; and all of that. Its understanding (not my opinion) that when Ed was writing one of the first books and his partner discovered that his name was not in the book though he was teaching it and collaborating with Ed, that he kept the final part of the teachings from Ed. I then understood that later Al Tracy had already gone back to one of Mitose’s students to get his black belt, so it would be ‘true’. By doing that Al Tracy had the comprehensive training with nothing left out. Then it was said that Ed Parker went back to Al Tracy his former student fro certification, after which Ed then would also have had the full traditional form legitimately in that lineage. I cannot speak to Ed’s intent with respect to the book and all the Hollywood stuff. I have no reason not to believe that Woo had been sidelined and when he discovered it, that he packed up and took the rest of the info for the book with him. Were it me, I’d have done the same and perhaps more. Moving on, Al Tracy and Elvis are in the same tree under Ed. So if you follow the lineage you begin with James Mistose. Beneath him in one tree is William Chow and in another Ray Arquilla. Under William Chow is Ed Parker. Under Ray Arquilla is Al Tracy. Al is also under Ed Parker as Shodan. I can see no reason for Al to ‘go back’ to Ray after he became Shodan under Ed. unless he realized something ‘may’ have been amiss’, or perhaps he simply determined to be certified in the full Traditional Form under Mitose verses the modified version under Ed at the time. Allegedly Ed did have 3/4 of the complete Book Set Forms when Woo discovered he was not credited in the book he and Ed were collaborating on when he decided to cut the cord with Ed. Moreover, no one can attest to what transpired between Ed and Elvis.
      In the end, Ed had legit certification and was free to teach his own version as you all are. The distinction comes when you decide to teach or train in the traditional version of James Mitose or the modified version under Ed. The traditional version goes back to 1831, or 1832, and he died in 1915.
      Yasutsune (Anko) Itosu who was likely the first instructor to teach ‘classes’ of students in the traditional form. But Itosu discovered a need to modify for the sake of effective training in that era. So a distinct part of Kenpo Karate is when modification becomes necessary and ‘justified’ as it did in war times when Anko Itosu (in Okinawa) made necessary changes for the sake of his students. If anyone wants to claim they teach the ‘traditional form’ then it should follow the full form as taught by Mitose under Itosu, thou Mistose had learned in Japan notably under Gichin Funakoshi’s program but Itosu had put his teacing down on paper and setn them to Funakoshi to use to train students in Japan. But if a heavily modified version is being taught then the belt status that follows would not necessarily have the full lineage. For traditional belt status the full form should be taught and the student should be fully capable of testing and passing in the full traditional form. Kenpo Karate belongs to Mitose after Anko Itosu who also sent his forms to Japan’s head minister in hand to hand fighting. “Itosu did not invent karate himself, he modified the kata (forms) he learned from his master, Matsumura”-wiki “Master Arquilla received the rank of #3 master of Kosho Shorei from Mitose” Arquilla was trained in other martial arts forms prior. Mitose told him, “Don’t change anything in your art, but fuse Kosho Shorei into what you already have in your Kenpo system.” While karate is a battle style I myself am an artist. Kenpo is an art form as well. For me to lose it altogether is like burning an original Van Gogh or a Renoir. To teach tradition is to carry that beautiful art (and history of ancient battle technique) form into the future. MMA these days is more about competition.

    • Elvis’s Kenpo ability was a joke. His wife Priscilla could have kicked his ass! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T61C1pzE0RU
      Ed Parker was a fan of Elvis – Enough said!

      • In an interview Elvis admitted that Ed Parker skipped a couple of black belt degrees when he elevated Elvis to something like 8th degree. Elvis then had 2 belts sewn together to make the belt wider.

  1340. Oh yes, several posts back a gentleman (Mills or similar?) mentioned something along the line of a palm strike to the nose thus pushing bone splinters into the brain. Pure Hollywood, just like grabbing the floating ribs and ripping them out. I have an interest in medical implications from martial arts blows to the body and it just ain’t gunna happen.

  1341. Pingback: Difference between “Kenpo” and “Kempo” | BAKER CHIROPRACTIC, PA and Dr. John Raymond Baker,DC

  1342. My fellow friends in the Martial Arts,
    I am a black shirt in Pankration under my late uncle Falas Sakoutis.
    Kenpo is very nice and has its effective, but the most powerful of ALL Martial Arts is Panka as we refer to it in Greece.
    My uncle knew of Parker and many times said that Parker was an individual who could inflict serious damage more because of size then because of Kenpo.
    My only issue with Kenpo and its followers is that most do not train their condition and strength.
    A Kenpo class would never compare to a Panka workout, and most if not all Panka masters are in shape and posses physiques that would be the envy of Mr. America.
    Out system has 100 effective and tested techniques TOTAL.
    Kenpo has wayy too many for a practitioner to be peakly effective in combat when perfect adrenal response is necessary.
    Tala Mesa,
    Pankration Masters Training Facility
    Athens, Greece

  1343. All the arguments….each one of you are full of ????
    Talk of techniques is Kenpo good was Parker a bad ass all nothing but ????????????.

  1344. I’m a late arrival to this thread, and I have no first-hand knowledge of anything related to Kenpo or Ed Parker history (though I will say, Ed Jr. seems like a totally cool and legit guy), and I read that Mills Crenshaw passed away about a year ago, December of 2016. I understand people having a fond attachment and subsequent less-than-accurate memories of people and events from earlier in their lives, and as someone that knew of Ed Parker and American Kenpo from back in the mid-eighties when I started my own martial arts journey and wanted to like the man, it’s pretty obvious that most of the criticism that’s been leveled at him since his death is true and accurate. That’s sad for people like Mills Crenshaw and other, “First Generation” Kenpo people, but the truth is more important than maintaining the image of a false icon. It’s painful to watch old men get riled up and want to whip anyone that posts stuff they don’t like, but instead of accepting that Ed wasn’t GOD they would rather try to bully the truth, which really just reinforces what the critics say. At any rate, Kenpo is fascinating and can be a beautiful thing to watch, but it’s also probably the most abused and poorly executed martial art going, it’s truly a shame that Ed didn’t have the foresight to name a successor (looking at you, Larry Tatum ((and yes, I know Larry has his own issues)), or more ironically, one of the Tracy brothers), typically such a thing would pass on to the oldest son, but Ed Jr., wisely, stayed out of it.

  1345. Robert are you still around?
    Addressing Master Robert Libby.
    Please post so we can catch up.

  1346. Anything new?
    Still doing my thing here.
    Several months ago I did notice that the IKCA DVD course is now FREE.
    I spent 5 months looking over their self defense techniques.
    If you modify and add some boxing hands they are actually decent.
    Not all, but 30 of their SD stuff can be cut to 3 techniques instead of 6 and ended with some boxing combos as ko follow ups.
    How’s your schedule for US travel?
    That brewsky is getting stale????.
    Hope all good in Thailand.

  1347. Kenpo is extremely effective and the IKEA self defense drills do not need boxing add ons to work.
    I am a Black Belt in IKCA through their strict and vigorous testing standards.
    It has been simplified but no less effective than other Kenpo styles and is a near perfect total art for effective defense.
    Critics and others should look into the creators credentials before complaining or wishing to add stuff that is unnecessary.
    Osh!

  1348. I personally knew both Ed and Jimmy. I studied with Jimmy first in South El Monte and later met Ed, while working in the film industry (on martial arts movies). I later studied at Ed’s Pasadena studio and visited his home. Jimmy and Ed’s studios weren’t very far apart – 10 miles or so. Jimmy told the story of coming to America because of personal issues. He and Ed studied different arts and both were master instructors but Ed never stole anything from Jimmy. This story is total fabrication.

  1349. Geoff Robinson

    It is easy to make claims and tell stories about a dead man. It is also very disrespectful because he cannot answer you. Ed Parker died 26 years ago. The details in this story would have to have occured in the 1950s? That means 60+ years ago. You tell a story with very little to go one to verify its accuracy. It is discouraging to hear someone in the martial arts world criticize another good martial artist. Really good and truly experienced martial artists are generally humble and do to down-grade others. Belt colors and stripes don’t define movement, ability and experience. They understand that there are many other arts that they can benefit from.

    By the way, my art is Parker kenpo with a little Wally Jay small circle mixed in with it under the direction of Jim Dohan. Jim grew up with both the Parker and Jay families and combined the two for his art. I have met Jim and I study with one of his students as my teacher. Jim is one of the best master level martial artists I have ever experienced. He is very street level credible. I have played some in the Philipeno and Indonesian arts. I never met Parker, but based on my personal experiences, Parker’s students such as Jim Dohan and Paul Mills, Ed Parker must have been pretty good.

    Be careful about criticizing one art just because you practice a different art.

  1350. Matt Kelser,
    You may not need them but it sure adds to an effective arsenal.
    Decent boxing skill can only make Kenpo better.
    IKCA is very good, however you can get things done with 3 of thief attack responses.
    I’ve always felt that a black belt in any system especially Kenpo should be able to go into any boxing club and spar at least holding their own.

  1351. Robert Libby here’s hoping you still come here to read posts.
    I spent two days studying your videos and can state boldly and proudly that when it comes to real World self defense applications, hands down you are one of the best on the planet.
    People who criticize you are doing it because they are jealous and envious of your knowledge.
    What you have provided in your videos for free, is priceless.
    That information would cost thousands of dollars and you have helped millions by your genorisity.
    If you get that school in Cali set up I would be honored if you would allow me to fly out for a weekend to visit and finally do what I’ve wanted to for years, shake your hand.
    If you read this leave a response and if possible a better contact method.
    Your friend always.

  1352. I would like to back up the commentary posted by Mr. Bobo Morgan in the YouTube.
    And go back many years to the bickering about Ed Parker.
    Ed Parker was a fat, out of shape slob!
    He did a con job on the pathetic followers and ripped them off by stealing their finances and stringing them along with his hundreds of phone made up on the fly kenpo garbage.
    The shit does not work fellas!
    Name one kenpo guy who has competed and won anything of note?
    Who in the fantasy world of kenpo black belts has used his bullshit system to f up some serious street dude.
    Show me a kenpo follower who is in top shape?
    This silver haired beer bellied fake did nothing but invent a garbage system that is at the top for ineffective fake Martial Art.
    Now all you who stuck up for Eddie on this forum can come and sniff my ever loving a–!

  1353. Pierre,
    I am a 4th Degree Black Belt in America Kenpo as per the late Grandmaster Parker.
    I run, lift, and in college competed in wrestling and boxing.
    I’m an in shape, fit, and ready “Kenpo slob”.
    Enough already.
    It’s about time that you and others who are or have disrespected Ed Parker get straighten out.
    I DARE YOU to post contact information.
    I am extremely interested in knowing more about you.

  1354. I Just wanted to say i have spend the last 3 weeks reading all of the comments and the responses. i have laughed, i have cried and i have frankly just been amazed at the amount of bashing everyone has done @ one another.

    I am a Kenpo Black belt. is Kenpo the end all be all in martial arts? not in my opinion, but the reason i teach it is as a defense against sucker punches, grabs, chokes and holds. gives the students a base.

    If i know that the situation has escalated to fisticuffs the i will defend myself with Kickboxing combinations.

    Then you better have enough wrestling or Jiujitsu to defend yourself when the fight hits the floor.

  1355. Happy Holidays to all and may you I’ll conditioned kenpo two tons of fun, slaphappy, 200 moves practioners eat enoungh buzzard on Thanksgiving that all your brown tunnels of deuce dropping farts gain another 50 pounds of fat.
    Hey Andy baby…why waste time teaching ineffectiveness in the forms of a worthless base when you can train those teachers pets pupils hard kickfighting combinations with elbows knees spitting and if necessary biting that would leave an advsary in so much pain they would lose their bodily functions in public?
    I’ve read all the posts and most of these ass kissin kenpo ironies
    that simply adore Amer Kenpo and Ed Parker the silver haired sexiest man of all times in martial Arts?
    You are all a bunch of brown nosing nobodies.
    I hate brown nosers, so I despise each one of you non skilled Kenpo kapuchinos.
    This is what I thinks of u ????????

  1356. Greetings Pierre Vio,
    I appreciate the feedback. like i said in my earlier post i have a reason why i still teach Kenpo. i do not teach All of Kenpo, but i have taken the elements that i feel are useful and teach them as my self defense curriculum for sucker punches, grabs, standing chokes and locks.

    i dont fee into the fact that all of Kenpo as gospel, but as a base it works quite well.

    have a wonderful thanksgiving with your family.

  1357. Were is Libby the Champ? Back in Burma dreaming about being a Great fighter? WTF

  1358. Hey Vickie ????
    I’m in Thailand you sophisticated suck ass!
    Maybe your in Burma sniffin some Python rectum.
    I would like for all you kenpo failures to eliminate me from all conversations like one eliminates waste after an enemy, OK?
    My talents are unmatched and what I teach and offer comes from the only testing ground, the streets!
    I may be a little heavier than in my younger years but still capable and powerful enough to knock out all the kenpo experts including Tatum Speakman, and others.
    I DO NOT respect any form of Kenpo.
    It doesn’t work!!!

    • Hey, I would still like to know what Scott Loring, Paul Dalton, Richard Carthew, Tom Bleeker, etc are up to these days or what happened to them. Those are the guys we studied with back in the 1960s. Did you keep contact with any of them. Sorry, I am not going to weigh into this controversy as I am totally unqualified to venture an opinion as I bombed at martial arts. Instead, I took to firearms including defensive pistol where I hold a sharp shooter classification becoming very close to expert marksman. No, I will not speculate how well I can shoot a seasoned martial artist because I shoot strictly for sport despite the fact that my matches involve simulated self defense scenarios. I am just curious on how the people I trained with are doing. You might remember me under the training moniker “hammerfist” (if that rings a bell. Look forward to hearing from you. Be well everyone. No need to be nasty.

    • The person who posted and started with “Hey Vickie???” is not Robert Libby. There have been several false posts in my name. I can speak for myself if I choose to.

      • Robert Libby, I believe you didn’t write that and I don’t know who wrote it, but this isn’t the place for men to be so dishonorable with their tongues and the owner of this site can check the IP address it came from and block the real author.

  1359. Owen Nostrilstein

    Grettings!
    As I research kenpo karate I came to this forum and find myself in a deplorable and disgusting waste of humiliating words toward the great art of Kenpo and the pioneer the late, great Ed Parker Sr.
    Because of the ramblings of disrespectful and uncalled for comments, I no longer wish to be a fan of Kenpo.
    The worse here in defaming Ed Parker Sr. seems to be some gentlemen by the name of Robert Libby.
    I became somewhat intrigued by what he was spewing that I located his instructional YouTube videos to see with my own eyes if he was even qualified to say distasteful things about a great Martial Arts icon like Grandmaster Ed Parker, Sr.
    What I saw was a big man with some useful information that is way beneath that of Ed Parker.
    A man who does not need karate to defend because he could sneak someone and inflict damage on his sheer weight.
    But also a man whose karate skills are fair at best and who has developed a reputation at the expense of the long passed away Ed Parker, Sr.
    This man who calls himself Robert Libby and has used this website to tarnish the great Ed Parker Sr for years is a parasite that belongs in the Martial Arts HALL OF SHAME!
    This individual is not a respectable Martial Artist he is a vocal irrelevant.

  1360. I’m the best, my kenpoo skill is outlandish.
    My forms impeccable, my slaps adorable.
    When I mace the dragon, I use an enema.
    No one can defeat me when I drop a deuce.
    Joshua Pesterner is a tequila taco tormentor.
    His master Greg is a Payne in the butt.
    The IKCA is better than oil of olay.
    Steve Shaffer is a lethargic lump of Martial waste.
    All kenpo lovers are engaging in Little Cesars pizza pie tournament.
    LA is a female not a city in CALI.
    My strikes are better than your kicks.
    My blocks are horrendous but my elbows need a scrub.
    My face is beautiful, my physical build potentially as good as Robert Libby.
    My feet are like athletes.
    My nails have no fungus, but my breath stinks as much as Kenpo karate.
    My heartfelt appreciation for having you losers read my honest feelings.

  1361. Here is the “real deal” of Kenpo and Ed Parker.

    1) Kenpo is / was a mix of Okinawan Karate and Japanese Jujitsu.
    Although there was “some” “influence” in Karate (in general) from Chinese Kung-Fu, there is NO CHINESE HAND OR FOOT strikes in the original Kosho Ryu Kempo, NONE.. get this right people! Stop reading the lies!

    2) James Mitose “invented” Kosho Ryu Kempo right here in the U.S.A., in Hawaii. IT WAS NOT AN ORIGINAL MARTIAL ART IT WAS / IS A HYBRID / MMA OF Okinawan Karate and Japanese Jujitsu. Again, get it right people, stop making things up!

    3) YES William Chow learned Kenpo from James Mitose, and Ed Parker learned it from William Chow, then “modified” Kenpo/Kempo with classical sounding Chinese techniques “twin daggers” ECT. In California, that started “West Coast” Kenpo/Kempo.

    4) You also had “East Coast” Kenpo/Kempo with George Pesare and Nick Cerio, Nick taough Fred Villari and you had the “Shaolin Kempo Karate” with the same Okinawan Karate base, and Chinese hand strikes from the 5 animal styles.

    5) And between the West Coast and the East Coast kenpo, you have HYBRID versions of all sorts.

    The main take away, is it was “all” and “still” MADE UP HYBRID SYSTEM. Even if you go back to 1) with James Mitose.. it’s all “non-traditional”. It is NOT BASED OFF OF KUNG-FU AT ALL! No matter the long line of back and forth in regards to Ed Parker and his knowledge.. all Kenpo/Kempo was 100% made up from other martial arts. The first mixed martial art? YES.. before Jeet Kune Do actually. A lot of trickery in part of all of the orginal Instructors.. yes… 100%

    • George Pesare was a bad ass.
      Phenomenal instructor who trained PKA champ Dan Macaruso.
      His school on Branch Ave in Providence was a meeting and training ground for real kenpo stylists who could fight and some students who were mob connected.

  1362. What really turns me off about Kenpo is the, “mystique” of, “street fighting” in the 1950’s and 1960’s. One of Ed Parker’s big boasts was how he was a street fighter in Honolulu when he was a kid, and it permeates Kenpo. Now I’m well aware that violence can find a person on the streets, but let’s be honest, it’s certainly not common, contrary to the mythos perpetuated in many martial arts circles where everyone is constantly Kung Fu Fighting in the streets, as the song goes, and it shows in the terrible attitudes displayed by many in those circles. To paraphrase, “well dag-nab it, back in muh day, we were fightin’ in the street, I tell you whut, and people got their tails kicked!!11!” Easy, but impossible to verify (or refute) brags to bolster that, “street cred”, in all reality pretty silly, truth be told, and borderline ridiculous, I kinda feel sorry for people that never evolved beyond a teenager’s mentality, one can train in all earnest and seriousness without resorting to that, “Ah’m a tuff guy” persona, I’ve never associated with Kenpoists for that very reason.

  1363. Ed Parker learned from William Chow one of James Mitose’s students.

  1364. 1870 replies and comments to this “article” and it is total hearsay! Its author ends with something along the lines of “… gee I sure would like to know the truth and if anyone can back up my ludicrous claims…I sure would appreciate it.” 1870 replies! Wow. Some people need to find a hobby…especially this Robert Libby dude.

  1365. Ed was a conman, not unlike the slobby orange pig currently inhabiting the white house.

  1366. Wow, the length of this thread says it all. Too much talk and not enough action. Meet and fight. Settle it. The young seem to wait until someone is old enough to beat.

  1367. I met and talked with Mills Crenshaw in Keehan’s early big Chicago tourny. I was a brown belt and he lauded my kata. He then went on to fignt a tall guy who had been lionized by Black Belt mag (can’t remember his name), leaving the guy heavily marked and bleeding. I was mightily impressed with Mills. When the match was over, the guy leaned in to ask Mills: “What was that?” I was chastised by a couple of stiff blacks belts for laughing out loud.
    I went on to earn a nidan from Nick Cerio, who studied with William Chow in at least two lengthy visits in Hawaii.
    Let me say this–Mills Crenshaw and Nick Cerio are two true artists who are also good on the street.

    • Irish Billy Mack

      Brook back yapping in October 2019.
      Still the same jerk he was years ago.
      Me…retired after being overmatched and knocked out in my pro debut.
      Recovered and started training for fun.
      Took a trip to Vegas and on a whim started playing the quarter slots.
      After going through $300 down to my last $50 I won on the progressive.
      Took home nine figures?
      Happy as can be.
      Would still be interested in promoting a fight vs Brooks under whatever set of rules he wants.
      I’ll fly Robert Libby in all paid expenses to ref.
      Brooks can dig up Pesterner or Payne to work his corner.
      20K winner take all and Brooks does not need to put up any money.
      Just agree, sign, show up.
      Now that I’ve experienced what it feels like to be ko’d Brooks has a “snowball’s chance in hell” of beating me.
      Hope some of the old crew especially Michael Brooks post here and response is positive.

    • Hey Billy! I have not been on this site in about 2 years! If you can get it done I am in. But Steve Shaffer, Joshua Pestaner, and Michael Brooks have all shown what cowards and liar whet are.
      Good luck to you amigo!

    • Hey Jay Lewis, you are totally full of shit and lying! John Keehan or “Count Dante” was a clown. Nick Cerio is a joke as shown by his videos! And back in the 1960s at the Santa Monica school Mills was seen as a total poser and a real hack!
      Once again, you are totally full of shit! A typical Kenpo clown!

  1368. Robert,
    Man…great to have read your response.
    I came here on a “whim” and see the same stuff from the same morons.
    Got set up in my debut.
    Was suppose to fight some guy who was 1-1 and the story was that he didn’t show so they lined up a 2-0 fighter.
    We later found out he was 9-2 with 6 ko’s and an extensive amateur record.
    Brooks won’t take it.
    He may come here to talk after he reads my post from yesterday, but that’s it.
    Are you still producing your YOUTUBE instructionals?
    Listen, I was man enough to realize that you can’t go into pro boxing without the proper management and it cannot be a part time thing.
    Glad all well.
    You were and still are the “real deal” when it comes to self defense and street boxing.

    • I have a video coming soon and it will back many of my claims and by very senior JKD people. One of them used to call me Sifu! He will verify that I have taught JKD and wrestled for years and was well respected in the JKD community by those that knew me.
      Good luck to ypu my friend!

      • Strange because I contacted Paul Vunak and he had no clue who you were, seeing as you claimed to be an instructor of his and if you are so respected one would think he would remember you…..

  1369. Naco Rivolenti

    Gentlemen, bums, creeps, and Kenpo Kritics,
    My fame is winning the lottery after testing and passing my test for Godan in Shotokenpo-Ryu.
    My master is Gissel Grimsly a 10th Degree Black Belt in American Kenpo under Larry Tatum and 6th Dan under the great Shotokan Master Ninoyima.
    Ken Parker was not as good as Frank Dux.
    Dux did demos and was knocked out by UFC fighter Zane Frazier in a street fight so at least Frank has fights under his gi.
    What Parker did was promote the International, strut around and flex his bear like chest and make cameo appearance on shows like “I love Lucy” and Matt Helm with Dino Marteli AKA Dean Martin.
    A reliable Kajukenbo pioneer from Honolul now 91 told me over pineapple smoothies that Ed Parker was a 4th kyu green belt.
    He gassed out testing for Brown and when he came to the mainland fooled people by wearing a black belt with his debonair silver streak mane.
    Suck it up Kenpoist your Master the great creator of America Kenpo was not a real Shihan.
    In today’s environment he would rank with Ralph Macchio of Karate kid.
    Don’t feel offended by my truthful commentary, after all truth is real.
    Furthermore, heed my humongous plea.
    Do not come here to call me names or challenge me.
    Those that do have atrocious odors reeking from their orally offensive breath.
    May you continue to practice kenpo till your ineffective skills flourish.

    • I ? this thread, there is little more amusing than those that defend Ed Parker and the cobbled together gobshite of the Kenpo backstory. Naco Rivolenti, man, you win the Daily Internets for this line, “In today’s environment he (Parker) would rank with Ralph Macchio of Karate kid.” On a related note, I’ve been doing extensive reading of late on the similar hogwash that is the fabricated backstory of Tae Kwon Do, truly an embarrassment and shame, but another one of those “gospels” you dare not speak of in certain circles of baying sheep, either too dumb to see the truth or too humiliated to admit it.

  1370. Lobert Ribby can YOU hear me?
    Have not read any negative comments about Ed Parker or Kenpo in awhile.
    I assume you’ve come to realize that American Kenpo IS effective and is also a beautiful art to watch in action.
    Only some bozo clown would put Ed Parker down.
    What was posted here for many years is revolting.
    How can respectable human beings act like children and tarnish the reputation of a legendary Martial Arts master like Edmund K. Parker?
    You and others like you have no shame.
    You could have, should have stood tall and acted like a decent person.
    Instead you acted with profound numbness to the feelings of millions like me who loved and respected Parker and all forms of Kenpo.
    Continue to live your pathetic life in Thailand you ugly sasquach.

  1371. Is this the kenpo guy who gives 10th black belts with is $1000 home video course?
    Now he gives rank in Native American Self Defense..STOP THE INSANITY!!

  1372. Naco Rivolenti

    May I humbly respond to Xfire?
    Respectful thanks.
    The only Taekwondo trainer I have respected is the great, tough, He Il Cho.
    This man trained hard and in his late 70’s in 2020 practices better than any fat, out of shape Kenpo Karate KrumKake.
    I enjoy telling the truth even when it makes those that are in love ? with Kenpo.
    I’m in love with effective traditional Martial Art.
    If you look at Edmund Parker perform would you not agree that Macchio had equal or better technique?
    Heck even Truce Begner looked decent with Ricky Nelson.
    Senior Grandmaster Parker was self given black belt.
    Not a bad thing IF YOU TRAIN!!!
    He didn’t!
    Most Kenpo is garbage.
    The most impressive I saw with the long haired southerner who has videos on YouTube, he’s real nice.
    Look 🙁 on the net videos of kenpo matters sucking wind looking like they have constipation after executing 3 techniques.
    Comprehend I don’t intent to offend but when someone smells of incompetence the stench must be exposed as inferior and the big bellied American Kenpo MASTERS must be put on a pedestal of prolific shame.

  1373. De nada, Naco, and thank you. No question the typical Korean TKD guys are pretty hardcore, intense, and warrior-like, I trained with the Lee’s of the ATA (H.U., In Ho, Soon Ho, G.K., etc.), and Hee Il Cho is legendary, but you get into the franchise taekwon-dojangs and it gets as bad as any Kenpo school. I’m more critical of the fabricated history pouring out of the Kukkiwon, there’s no need to mythologize the art and they deserve the same scrutiny that Ed Parker gets for his flat out false claims of any kind of earned black belt. Not to take anything way from Parker’s charisma and business sense, he had bucket loads of both, but that’s really not what the arts are meant to be. I digress, I feel bad for the people that put any of them on pedestals, they’re all fallible humans and should be recognized as such, some do it out of naivety, others have a far more sinister motive, and that is antithetical to the true Spirit of The Marital Arts, which is supposed to be at the heart of all training.

  1374. Naco Revolenti

    Xfire,
    Your words show me you are a knowledgeable man with respect for the truth.
    I did not come here to pontificate further the negative debates on whether Parker was good or not.
    See, there are many self ranked men and some of them actually trained.
    Take as an example one individual who was only a green belt and spent 3 years self training in a basement before creating his own system and wrapping a 10 Degree upon his waist.
    As soon as ridiculed he proceeded to challenge all the “big” names of his time.
    Word is he had it in for Joe Lewis but after many years of calling out the best was given a proving ground fight against one called Jeff Smith.
    Smith a World champion struggled to win a close decision against the self styled, basement creator of a system who had NEVER fought full out before.
    Therein lies the difference between Parker a very well known but lazy Master and the self trained but always working out Kariem Allah’s.
    If Ed Parker trained, fought, and loss more respect would he receive from doubters of his ingenious creation American Kenpo.
    Sadly, in his afterlife the truth has put dust upon his legend.
    He has only himself to blame.
    I trust my impetuous opinions have not rendered upon you a sour taste in the name of my person.
    With reluctance I have put forth my feelings and truthful validation that Granmaster Ed Parker was not as faithful to his legend and reputation as others less known.
    The few kenpo practicers of slap happy technical skill that I have seen ?and van pack up their ability?have cross integrated other forms?of Martial Karate Arts.

  1375. Dear Mr. Libby,
    Will just practicing the kicks and punches from kenpo twice a week one hour be adequate for self defense if you lift weights and run on two alternate days?
    I spent one whole day reading stuff here that has been years in the making.
    I’ve enjoyed reading your insights on real street defense so I wanted to ask.
    Hope you read this and thank you.

    • Frank, as you were polite I will respond- NO!!!!!!!!!! Kenpo punching and strikes are very weak when compared to boxing or say Muay Thai. The blocking is atrocious and it has no ground game. A very good combination is boxing with judo. Also, you never gave me an age. Grappling like BJJ and judo are brutal on the body. Rickson Gracie has 8 ruptured discs in his spine and a real mess physically. The running and weights is great and I definitely encourage that.
      It is so simple- if you cannot do it while sparring you can NEVER do it in the street!
      Good luck to you!

  1376. Michael Brooks

    I finally understand this article was published for Al Case’s publicity with humor. To think that Ed Parker, master of the martial arts, published over 15 books that are top sellers in self-defense and spent over 40 years teaching and studying martial arts as well as developing his American Kenpo that has produced real life, full contact, fighter champions as well as recorded successes in street fights and would not have learned the ‘super-duper’ whoop-de duper punches and kicks is hilarious.

  1377. You are right Michael, funny page. Some people never made it. Funny!!!

    • Mr. Brooks,
      What Kenpo guys or Ed students were full contact champions?
      I spent over a week looking around on the net and found 0.
      No disrespect sir, but after having read years worth of comments here the only person I feel comfortable listening to is Mr. Libby.
      However, I would welcome your input or feedback regarding kenpo practitioners or champions who were successful in real contact or kickboxing type events.
      I do know there was a kenpo guy who tried MMA and didn’t do too well.
      If I remember that article, nothing he used was kenpo and the only reason he lasted a while was because of his size and weight.
      Look forward to reading your answers.
      Thank you.

  1378. Gentleman, now is not the time to argue amongst yourselves. Your country needs YOU ALL TO STEP UP TO THE PLATE!
    You are needed. The USA is headed for a situation never seen in our generation. The mail in ballots will cause the contesting of the winner.
    The mail in votes cant be counted in time before the speaker of the House becomes the Interim President. Yes, Nancy Pelosi could be the next President. I dont care of you vote red blue green or any other part. But please go to the POLES and vote in person. Those are the only votes that will count!
    If electoral votes are not received by the fourth Wednesday in December, then the President of the Senate or the Archivist of the United States can use “the most expeditious method available” to get the votes sent to Congress. The electoral votes received by Congress are counted in a joint session at 1 p.m. on January 6. If a presidential or vice presidential candidate does not receive a majority of the electoral votes, the House selects the next president and the Senate selects the next vice president.
    https://www.constitutioncenter.org/blog/does-the-constitution-allow-for-a-delayed-presidential-election Gentleman the reason one party is pushing for mail in has nothing to do with Covid19. All the other sister Covid viruses were spread by pigs, and we have all been lied to. Its not airborne. But the masks ensure that people live in fear and vote from home. My friends YOU ARE THE FEARLESS. Please register to vote, and vote in person for whomever you choose but do not let our country suffer a coup d’état. For the sake of our freedoms I beg you all to join as one just this once, and take control of your lives. The only thing you have to lose is ‘everything’ that you and your friends and loves ones have come to know as freedom. Do not let them take our hope away. This once your weapon is not made of iron and it is not your body. It is your voice. Please CHOOSE how you will be led and who will run your nation!

  1379. Master Ron Parenti-Rhode Island

    In trying times the Martial Arts men and women who post here should kneel and pray to the photo image of the late, great Grandmaster Edmund K. Parker.
    I am ORDERING the one’s who for years have allowed disgusting words to tarnish the reputation of a man who did so much good for millions.
    What cowards would do this knowing that his son and family may or have read these words that have come from the rotten mouths of lowlifes whose skill and contributions will never be near that of Ed Parker.
    You are a gang of punks!
    As a forty year veteran of Kenpo I feel the dirt of your tongues hitting my heart.
    If I could get each of you in my private dojo one on one I would exonerate the damaging words you all have chosen to use on Mr. Parker and Kenpo by beating you down like the dishonorable rats that you are.
    Like all bullies you all grew tired of the name calling and crawled back into your shacks in somewhere USA…stay there!
    Don’t any, and I mean ANY of you come here to talk smack upon or about me unless you have balls the size of cantaloupes.
    I detest each of the ones who for years put down Ed Parker and Kenpo.
    To the few that stood up for our Grandmaster and great art, may you be blessed for decades.
    As for the rotten mouth, parasites that talk but can’t fight to wipe their own arses, go play your keyboard warrior games on another forum.
    This one, specifically the portion dedicated to Mr. Parker and Kenpo is off limits to you bowel sniffing skanksters.

  1380. Address my comment to the blabber mouth maestro….drum roll please, Michael Brooks!
    My fame is Jimmy Hateyoustein I believe you have been for years a PAPER TIGER.
    Your skills are primitive, your punch useless, your kicks worthless, your workouts misfit like, and your rank crispy cream type.
    You talk a lot and brag too much but your mouth smells like a horses crotch.
    Your a legend in your own you slime and time has not shut you up cause your one of a kind.
    A wormhole like worthless human who has no class and only enjoys the aroma of ass.
    No Michael Brooks I know you can read to where this leads only your odor I heed for all over the land the stench of bichael mrooks nauseous smell a beginner in karate I can tell and to you I happily say GO TO HELL?

  1381. This is Michael everybody.
    I fell in love with Jimmy cause his heart of gold has given a fart to bold.
    I plan on meeting Jimmy for dinner and drinks when things get better.
    In the meantime I profess my adoration for this mariquita.
    I got warm reading his post and fantasized he and I fornicated over the American Kenpo patch.
    We are going to develop a system that incorporates slapping, scratching and hair pulling.
    Our unique GI will be a black chiffon with pink sash with the image of a long linguini smothered in MY BULL SHIT.

  1382. To be clear Mr. Rheim, or Al Case, or what ever your name is; we are not going down the rabbit hole again – start with Frank Trejo and go thru all the full contact champions back then who studied Kenpo and those who studied Kenpo even after they had been trained and belted as experts in other systems; they saw a reason and the value to pick up Kenpo ideas. And Mr. Libby who is not certified, and who came on this forum and insulted and challenged the founder of American Kenpo and the value of Kenpo, as well as challenging all Kenpo people from some imaginary home in Thailand, but didn’t put his address but sure parried at least 3 challengers who posted their address. He is not an expert on Kenpo, because he says he only got to 1st degree and the highly complex system isn’t complete until 3rd degree Black Belt level. He’s just a ‘never was-has been’. I’d add to your observations of MMA that is not a true art because of its limitations on where they can and cannot strike so those restrictions dictate and limit some motions and strikes. But to be frank, Frank, if you want to respect that person more than a person who was both noted for being kind, generous, and spiritual; who wrote over 15 books, and spent 40 years teaching martial arts and ran one of the most respected tournaments in the world and is indirectly and directly responsible for 100’s of Kenpo schools, then Ed Parker is not the person for you. Go and study at Mr. Libby’s school.

  1383. Mr. Brooks,
    I certainly hope I didn’t offend you as my questions were asked from one Martial Artist to another respectfully.
    Mr. Libby seems to be very knowledgeable and although he is not a global name like Mr. Parker has by all accounts been around the arts, and training for decades.
    I would think that amount of “time in” deserves some credit.
    Never doubted that Mr. Parker was a highly skilled legend, just that for practical self defense there has to be a quicker path because as deadly as kenpo may be, it takes a real long time to learn and execute, let alone retain it when you get old and not in top shape.
    I can sense that you are very sincere and are doing your part to stand up for Mr. Parker and his/your art Kenpo.
    Very commendable but you have to respect other people’s opinions when done in good taste.
    Come back and offer your input on the same question I asked Mr. Libby.
    I am an open minded individual and if you offer a different perspective that I can learn from I welcome it.
    Thanks.

  1384. My Dear Kenpoists Reading This:
    Please give me your opinion of the following post directed to Mr. Know All Kenpo, MICHAEL BROOKS!
    Dear Schumck,
    I understand that you no longer wish to comment to those that find your knowledge revolting.
    You chronically complain that those of us who find you to be nothing more than HOT AIR from the back bottom are liars, fakes, or one person posting under numerous names.
    But that is not true Brooks, after all when you post what comes out of your mouth is both pathological fibbing or cutting corners assumptions.
    Do is all a favor and bring something of worth to the forum other than comments that depict you as an Ed Parker and kenpo groupie that idolizes and day dreams more than he actually trains his art.
    I, Jimmy MY REAL name would like to be entertained by watching somebvideos of you practicing Mike.
    Show me, US how proficient you are in Kenpo or any form of combative.
    Earn your respect with performance rather than glorified talk, compliments, and ass kissing to those that agree with you.
    Submitted to you with authenticity.

  1385. I don’t like that fat combat fake Robert Libby.
    Libby is pissed at Parker because he only got to 1st Black.
    Hates Kenpo because his physical structure won’t enable him to move with the flow of an American Kenpo practitioner.
    Brags about his skills and I have to read his nonsense.
    Can the moderator remove all of his and his followers comments from this blog?
    Please I know there are more like me who have tired of this blabber mouth.

  1386. LOL!
    Yeah, two tons of fun over in Thailand.
    Are there any Kenpoists in Thailand to challenge Bobert Ribby?

  1387. I am really enjoying what all you loud mouth punks are saying about me.
    See, your comments bad or good keep me relevant.
    It means you all think about me day and night.
    I’m your idol.
    I know, don’t be ashamed.
    When you look up to someone that is better than you on every level, you learn self respect.
    A little self respect makes punks like you just a bit better than hippo excrement.
    Have a wonderful day practicing your fabulous art Kenpo while you daydream about me, YOUR master Robert Libby, AKA Bobo Morgan.

    • Fuck you and die! Do not use my name and this is Robert Libby. I almost never respond anymore but you are a total dick to use somebody else’s name.

      • Why?
        You gonna make me cry?
        After all you lie.
        You never called out Ed Parker.
        He would have slapped the craps outta you.
        Your a tough, big bruiser type.
        Seen your videos, done that.
        Your no slouch, but nothing to write home about either.

  1388. So someone else using Robert Libby’s name and then the real Libby exposes the fake?
    What kind of people have the audacity to do this shit?
    Only a bunch of losers that’s who!
    And I include everybody in that category.
    For years what ALL have done and continue to do tarnishing this man is unforgivable.
    Even the ones who have stood up for Ed Parker have kept the commentary flowing.
    I will reiterate what Robert Libby number two said.
    Fuck you all, drop dead, and this includes Robert Libby the fake and Robert Libby the real.

  1389. Who ever ^ is pretending to be Robert Libby cares way too much about what people on the internet think.

    • People on the Internet think?

    • Xfire may you bow and show me Robert Libby more respect?
      I don’t pretend to be nobody but me whoever Xfire really is.

      I reside in the beautiful majestic Thailand.
      Even the muay thai champions know of me and admire my knowledge of all effective methods of martial arts.
      While Ed was in extremely poor shape he could execute his kenpo for thirty seconds or less.
      That’s why I came clean.
      I am simply requesting that all of those that posted here and argued all these years to pay homage to me as the successor to Ed Parker.
      Look up to me, bow to my name every morning and when you train.
      Look to me for inspiration and motivation.
      I should be your source now.
      Furthermore, as of today I am Grandmaster Robert Libby 10th Dan.
      Cherish my knowledge, respect my words of wisdom, idolize my self defense expertise, and look up to me as your SENIOR RANKING mentor.

      • I’ve posted a few comments on Robert Libby’s youtube videos, got no problem with Robert Libby.

        Ed Parker was a legit businessman, but a marital arts fraud.

        • I rarely post anymore. No, Ed was a shit businessman and a thief. I arrived to open the school at 11104 Santa Monica Blvd. The doors were sealed with yellow tape from the IRS. Even now the business name of International Kenpo Karate Association is banned. The IKKA abbreviation can be used but not the same words. In the title Ed might have gone to prison but Elvis bailed his ass out. Me, Vic Leroux, Bob Eisele, Sam Estrada and several other instructors bought paint and rented compressors and cleaned and otally remodeled 3 schools and saved Ed’s ass. To repay that kindness Ed screwed me and others. I went without pay for 1 month to help out and so that the instructors under me could be paid when I ran the Santa Monica school.
          I have found just how little honor there is in martial arts and Ed was a scumbag. And all ehe Kenpo Krazies can do is insult me- pathetic.

          • Kindly read my dear Libby my post and refer your opinion as I am very open minded and non judgmental to the way of your methods.
            Respectfully in the arts,
            Harold Cushing

  1390. Harold T. Cushing

    Dearest Sir Libby,
    I, Harold Cushing has developed a very nasty taste for your remarks about my Master Ed Parker.
    He came to England and I as a young boy was gifted lessons by his British under link, Tyler Watson now as Parker deceased.
    I paid my dues and made my black belt proudly.
    YOU, and other forms of low life who find it necessary to trounce on Parker’s genius American Kenpo and his innocent heart of gold are despicable.
    Sir Libby, when was your colon last cleansed?
    That would remove a solid twenty pounds of brick and mortar like fecal findings from your arse!
    You must also commit to a dental detergent destroyer.
    There are reputable dental experts over in Wales that adhere to removing decades worth of decay.
    After all, the eaters of beagles and lox, matzo soup, and that horrible sandwich, pastrami on rye have seem to offer offensive vocal air, correct?
    Sir Libby, if you had spent more time in your kenpo practice throughout the years you have spent on this forum dispensing your dislike and purr hatred of both Kenpo and the greater than you, Ed Parker you sir Libby would have polished your abilities to 3rd or 4th level black belt in ANY kenpo system.
    Now, if my post has hurt your hating heart…live with it and keep your lips closed and words silent!
    That sir Libby isn’t a request, its AN ORDER.

  1391. Digame!
    Meh mamo podrio.
    Estudio karate y chuan fa aqui en Bayamon.
    Este blog estate geno de ipogritas que saben bochinchar pro no peliar.
    Empezando por El gordiflon Roberto Lengua de Libby.
    Estoy en aquatdo Que El arte De kenpo es porquiria!!

  1392. Robert Libby is out of his mind!
    After years of trash talk he finally admits to being a “fruitcake”.
    I will be the first NOT to kiss his rear end.
    However, I will accept the apologies of a man who obviously needs the support of all Kenpo brothers.
    Libby, an apology to us done in sincere taste is welcome and appreciated.
    The balls in your court.
    Will you say “sorry”?

  1393. I’m in thigh land sticking it to the girlie boys!
    They are sexier than Ed Parker and more debonair than Steve Shatter or Joshua Pesterners.
    Josh girlie boy Yum Yum Pokilpp want you to suck his c—!
    Ha ha ha oops I farted 🙁

  1394. OK, the buck stops here and today.
    The bad mouthing of Ed Parker and American Kenpo is over!!
    I am a 3rd black in kenpo and have only trained in kenpo for 16 years.
    The only other discipline I engage in is powerlifting strictly to enhance my power for Kenpo.
    I am here to issue an open challenge to any one of the many loudmouths who have slandered and defamed Ed Parker and American Kenpo.
    To anyone of you with the balls big enough to accept let me sweeten the pie.
    I will pay for insurance and have $10,000 CASH to whomever accepts just for showing up and accepting.
    Post your acceptance FIRST and in my follow up I will post my contact information so that we may commence with negotiations.
    With today’s Covid 19 situation ongoing, be advised that the challenge will most likely take place sometime after the New Year.
    However, once you’ve accepted and the paperwork has been signed you will receive 50% of your cash acceptance challenge money within 7 days.
    $5000 now, the balance after I beat into you the respect that you should have given Ed Parker and American Kenpo.
    Now, tough guys(you all know who you are)you wanted to fight an American Kenpoist, well here’s your chance.
    Let’s get together and either prove or disapprove how effective or ineffective the system is.
    Come show the World how tough you are and how American Kenpo is all BS.
    I dare one of YOU Ed Parker detractors to accept.
    10K cash, all legitimate, and documented so that you can prove how fake Ed Parker and his system was, is, are.

    • I’ll take you up on that offer, but currently I’m rat fucking Trump, sorry, you’ll to wait in line behind The Orange Shit Stain.

  1395. What no takers?
    What happened to the Monfongos, Irish Macks, Libby’s and the “others” backstabbing Ed Parker and American Kenpo?
    Each one of you have had your bluffs called, so crawl back into your houses and play on your computers!
    Monfongo just a big mouth aliases bully.
    Irish Mack a wanna be boxer with beginner skills who can’t touch a legitimate American Kenpo BB, Libby’s maybe the only legit “talker” but he’s an overweight senior who’s capacity to fight has finished with age, burgers, fries, and shakes.
    Is there anyone else with the youth and skill to show me my kenpo sucks or not?

  1396. Well?
    All the little bitches quiet huh?
    Bunch of losers!
    Tough talk no skill pussies.
    Don’t EVER say another bad thing about Ed Parker or ANY form of K Kenpo.

    • Ed was an obese fraudster who invented ridiculous “techniques” with even more ridiculous nomenclature. Kenpo itself surpasses ridiculous and enters the realm of sublime nonsense. None of those zany “self defense” techniques were ever pressure tested in any way. He does deserve credit for being a world-class schmoozer and entertainment industry hanger on and using those skills to further promote martial arts within said industry. He also seemed quite petty, such as the kicking of a supine trejo in the balls for having the temerity to have his arm in the wrong place and causing ed to fall backward and wallow about like a weeble during that south american demo.

  1397. Stench aroma putrid smell all you reading can go to hell.
    Libby, Chen Style, Kenpo J, even Billy and Komhomgo may.
    Somewhere in my mc dojo k enpo play, if I use flower strikes maybe I shit will stay.
    As I sit on the toilet trying to push, my brown rectum from within come air that would kill a moose.
    My farts smell pretty gross but not like bobs cause he’s a little overweight and know here as a big mouth slob.
    I must now say bye bye to the forum elders you are all ancient old men with ED and real slow skills.
    Read the above while imagining the wonderful song somewhere over the rainbow :—-)

  1398. Dearest XFire:
    Your teeth are rotten, your breath smells like shit :–(
    why don’t you get serious and accept his bet?
    Is it because like Shaun Hanity you idolize the scum, oh no in reality your just dumb.
    Now go brush out your mouth with vinegar and soap and no one here will think your a joke.
    We all know you smell like an ancient latrine and your clothing is used to wipe your butt clean.
    I now implore you to sincerely respond and post your displeasure if my poem hit home.
    For in the world of martial arts there’s always a loser and you here are one.
    Now go take a bath and wash your gi your crump.

  1399. Chow elevated himself to 15th dan, in protest of the ludicrously inflated rank bestowed upon, and by parker.

  1400. My dear X Fire I am delighted that my poem and rant flattered you.
    As was my intent to expulse upon thee a quart of pee and two banana size lumps all chocolate like clump of atrocious smelling dump from my Greek anus huh?
    I sincerely wished your response was more in dept instead of the short shit that ain’t really legit.
    What style do you pretend to practice and what belt do you hold or are you just a reader here whose house is full of black mold?
    This forum is all bull SHIT and full of old men, dreamers, and fake practitioners of different systems that’s why deep inside of me I wish you all then a very nice holiday and to all a night full of your favorite pastime GOSSIP and boring chit chat bye bye or as the song from the 70’s..when will I hear you again, when will our farts smell together.
    Are we in love forever, is the the end or the beginning of more, come on and answer you WHORES!!! :—-) ?

    • Paz, you are a true wordsmith of the master dan level, I suspect you are descended from the Sho’nuff lineage, much respect! Myself, I am but a Frying Dragon, Kumite!

  1401. I wanted all my forum brothers to know that one of the greatest reality based self defense pioneers passed away a few weeks ago.
    Professor Bradley Steiner creator of American Combato and a pioneer in the area of strength training for self defense taught a no nonsense and extremely effective curriculum.
    I believe his Kenpo roots may have been through John Mc Sweeney.
    Let’s all have a moment of silence for the late, great Professor Bradley Steiner…may he RIP!
    Thank you all.

  1402. X Fire,
    You took my ranting rhymes like a true champ and showed a lot of class.
    You have now sincerely earned my respect!!

  1403. DeBranco this true?
    Parker was crying because he fell?
    Trejo was a good boxer before k enpo so he could “take it”.
    Any other “crybaby” stories on Parker welcomed and appreciated.

  1404. My nane is Vomitaris Peo Apestoso.
    I cane here to say everyall piece of Mierda!
    Gegs payne, k enpo j , brooke and every other pendejo who practices karate k enpo by the garbage of all.
    K enpo smell Malo :–(
    K enpo mans fat slow no wind only from ass.
    I wish one of you all pusee says soneting of me so I can breaks your face.
    Wish one of you dares some say now to me?

    • Vomitaris Peo Apestoso, you know damn right! There’s not mushroom in K Enpo with every one fussing ambition about how bad Edmund Grifter Parker really was.

      • Good day Mr. Master X Fire I come in peace.
        But, willingly I intend to interest you in my self defense art of regurgitation ryu.
        Regurgitation Ryu enables one to vomit into the opponents face and cover it with horribly digested food.
        The most prolific time to execute the sound skills in this undefeatable system is around
        8 PM any day of your week.
        This is fool proof in effectiveness as you have eaten 3 meals and numerous snacks which make your oral expulsion of dispicable food more moist, smelly, and oatmeal like.
        If able, combined with bowels moving it leaves a uniquely horrendous plaster of rotting food and dark, charry bowel fudge that will leave your attacker atrociously ashamed and annihilated.
        As for rank you start at white belt and everytime you throw up dip the belt in it and allow it to dry until you reach expert level which requires your wiping your amazing anus with the belt turning it brown and subsequently like an expensive dark chocolate.
        Reap the benefits Master FireX and may you train and dump in hilarious laughter :—-)

  1405. Baquando Ricodiaz

    My style invokes the ability to utilize farts, bo, bad breath, and horrendous gas as an alternate self defense than kenpo.
    When attacked execute a spinning butt crack and spread combination.
    Expulse as much anus air as possible onto the assistants facial region.
    If he happens to be real rough, push until out of your rectis fly’s out a batch of cakita.
    The force should splatter this infinite and destructive du du and immediately stop your now humbled street tough in his pathetic tracks.
    Another wonderful technique and grabbing an attacker by the hair and blowing gingivitis like orally rotten breath and instinctively forcing his nose into your 6 month unwashed scrotum sack.
    That is a stopper!
    The hug and armpit drill will leave your tormentor in a state of disgruntled disgrace for having to force sniff your anti perspirant needing sobakos.
    Please post interest for more useful information on the stench do ryu system of karawhore.

  1406. I Robert Libby AKA Bobo Morgan hereby declare that my expulsion of brown splatter cannot be defeated.
    When I bend and push out cones 10 pounds of tough hardened excrement that no Kenpo lover can block.
    If the force doesn’t knock them out the smell, the aroma, the stench sure will.
    I want Kenpo J and Michael Brooks to have some of my special fudge brownie for dessert!!!

  1407. OH…Greg Payne too.
    Come on rough guy block my fast moving excrement!!
    Show me how good your Chinese Kenpo and reciprocal skills truly are.
    Show me my good brother Gregory Payne.
    If you are willing and I able and your skill impresses ME I will treat you to some fried ribs and sweet potato cake.
    Heck we can even drink some good old 20-20 while we listen to some Motown.
    Kenpo ain’t a rolling stone where it goes it hone and when it back it make you look like a sack.
    The Tempts!!!

  1408. Professor Mark Bryans

    I come in peace.
    What is with this horrible decimation of the Ed Parker legend?
    Each and everyone of you on this kenpo platform should be indefinitely embarrassed by your childlike conduct.
    ALL Martial Arts styles have pros snd cons.
    In the right hands, with proper training and mindset, all styles of Kenpo work in numerous self defense scenarios.
    The indignity of your foul and unjust perpetuation of Mr. Parker is beyond contempt.
    All the bickering and on going arguments for YEARS sicken me.
    How will Mr. Parker’s name ever redeem itself of all the unjust and nasty comments made here?
    I am sure that many who have chosen to do his name dirty have no ability other than to spew unnecessary and unproven allegations of Mr. Parker’s training and legitimacy.
    How dare those here drop to the gutter of garbage to do this unbearable and disgusting damage to a man who is no longer among us to defend himself.
    What does his poor son and family think of this?
    ALL of you should rot in hell for this immature and reprehensible conduct!!!

  1409. I am a liar although I post as X Fire my body odor is ridiculous as I aspire to become a humble dukey dropping misfire of caca from my anus o dire as I pull my pud on pliers cause my real name is
    Ken PO Grumpensire!
    Now all reading come and sniff my balls a little higher as you each make me gyrate and light my wire.

    • xfire (for real)

      lmao

      • To Tell The Truth!
        My name is XFIRE and I ain’t no liar although my desire is to be a 50th degree black belt in parpo a systematic creation of horrific farts that can debilitate any k enpo kock sucker on the martial arts anus.
        NO! Don’t listen to him he’s a fake just like Ed Parker, I is the one and only X fire and you know that I am totally true, you know I ain’t no scum bag liar if I was to say to all come and get a wif of my hair come on jerk offs smell my entire, you know my breath is my truth
        X Fire here.
        Ladies, gentleman, fellow Martial Arts fanatics, and American Kenpo fakes I announce in loud voice WILL THE REAL XFIRE PLEASE BEND OVER!!!!
        :—-)

  1410. Ira Eichornberg

    This is directed to X Fire you ate a gem, seriously.
    You’ve taken my pathetic, outlandish comedic talents in stride.
    I just started gigging at a few venues that are at 30% capacity.
    Get paid s—, but some of the college goofs that pay five bucks at the door get buzzed and laugh at anything I spew out of my disgusting mouth.
    Take Donny and his girlfriend Sofie.
    Two 20 something losers who sat front row.
    Donny was about 6 foot skinny as a rail, Sofie 5″3 maybe looked to weigh 250-275.
    She plops her humongous bottom on the seat and gets all lovey dovey with the love of her miserable love.
    Oh, and get this, these two were wearing jackets that read Fred Vilari Shoalin Kenpo :–(
    So on the spot I gave them the following.
    Donny’s a bitch, Sofie’s a skank, them both smell like Hippo CRAP!
    They crack up so I gave them another.
    Look 🙂 Sofie has a fat rectum and Donny enjoys the odor, they like horse prick so bend them over.
    Ass checks are pink, both of your butt holes stink, is it fudge, coco, or simply more of your arduous anus expulsion?
    They left and couldn’t last the entire show which tells me Donny’s a bitch and Sofie’s a HO!

  1411. After hovering over this blog for years watching degenerates like ROBERT LIBBY defame and slander me as well as other lessor parasites, I have come back to end the LIES about ME!
    I ACCEPT Robert Libby’s decades old challenge NOW!
    I am CALLING OUT
    ROBERT LIBBY!!!
    I DARE YOU, LIBBY to meet ME, EDMUND K. PARKER at my
    grave site in the cover of darkness IF you dare!
    Once I dominate you with my dormant American Kenpo skills I fully intend to have the ghosts and spirits, my cemetery neighbors, SCARE the impacted WHITEFISH from you fat, and ROTTEN bowels!
    If you ignore and don’t respond you ROBERT LIBBY are a paper tiger sissy.
    Be a man and man up LIBBY.
    I am now in better health than at 42 when you claim I punked out let ALL see who now the PUNK IS LIBBY!!!
    ROBERT LIBBY of THAILAND I, me, Grandmaster Edmund K. Parker has issued my challenge.
    Allow all reading to find put how tough this fat, Jewish Martial Artist really is.
    Enter the CEMETERY Libby I am waiting.

    • xfire (for real)

      “Enter the CEMETERY” Is Don Coscarelli available to produce this legendary tale!?

      • The most constipated and augmented fudge obstruction morphs from ingesting meats, bread, pudding, and beer.
        When eaten throughout the day, if one fails to practice their powerfully effective kenpo skills, when they attempt to expulse their unforgivable anus will not widen sufficiently to push out the green banana sized turds.
        Then, one’s only alternative is to have a professional colon cleanse conducted by Rubenstein at his medical facility entitled Festive Pushing over in Northeast.
        Fake Dr. Arlene Rubenstein takes a plunger and attempts to extract ones human manure out.
        If failed, Arlene will use her gloved hand dipped in olive oil and introduce it slowly into one’s ass hole.
        Once up to the wrist she instructs you her patient client to push as she tiger claws one’s impacted brown fudge waste.
        Upon her finish, Arlene will wipe your brown bottom with floral wipes and finish her therapy with a fabulous hand release until both your creamy coating and Nutella like droppings are finally flushed out.
        I highly recommend this to ROBERT LIBBY AND the great the one the lonely XFIRE!!!
        Please allow yourself the opportunity to express your words of wisdom to all the…grand jerks off on this phenomenal blogs!!!

        • xfire (for real)

          “…my newly created index card system American Kenpo Cemetery Edition”

          Dying. rofl

          • Urgently request that Master XFIRE induce his tummy with a nice cup of hot coco made with…XLAX!
            I guarantee that as you Mae Geri or shuto the turds will drop out of your delirious dung dropper faster than an Ed Parker macing the dragon!
            If you decide to get too tough with your words I will get very rough with my articulate methods of expression.
            See, I am great, I have 6th Degree level expulsion skills when I throw. Spin kick backwards i also push so that my fecal mush connects before my devastated feet.
            After all I am an athlete with nail fungus like footing.
            X fire is a master of LOL!!!

  1412. I have chosen THE REAL XFIRE to referee my fat man Libby challenge.
    Master XFIRE is a proven friend and supporter of MINE and American Kenpo.
    XFire’s loyalty has not gone unnoticed.
    As of today’s date, I, Edmund K. Parker creator of American Kenpo have issued to XFIRE an honorary 8th Degree Black Belt in my system.
    Additionally, I have instructed, through my telepathic MIND GAMES, the fighting commissions of this land to certify XFIRE as a referee of all fighting systems including my newly created index card system American Kenpo Cemetery Edition.
    The rules of engagement for the Libby vs Parker will be all things go, and conducted at my grave inside of an 8ft deep pit of dirt encased in cow manure.
    The loser, that loser Libby will upon taking the feet, sniff the dry dirt and regurgitate it along with whitefish, matza, lox, and crackers on pastrami.
    Grandmaster Xfire will be compensated in the amount of $300. 00 plus a food credit at Applebee’s in Marina Del Rey.
    The EVENT will be covered by Wide World of Sports and the spirit of the legendary Howard Cosell will offer color commentary.
    Special guest judges will be, Bruce Lee, Steve Mc Queen, James Coburn, Charo, and Dan Ackroid.
    The promotion is called IT’S ON!
    Better late than never Parker vs Libby challenge contest.
    Spectator limited to 100 and tickets on sale at the price of $5000.00
    It’s Robert “The Bragging” Blob Libby vs ME, the legend Ed American Kenpo Parker’s.
    Dedicated to Fess “Daniel Boone” Parker.

  1413. Kelipe Sanchez

    O ja men why no buddy talk no mas?
    All uous quite now scared?
    Maybes you take crap and girl smell it and says no baby you smell reals bad.
    Yup my before girlfriend was home coming queens in school.
    She lovely beautiful.
    We go ski and spend weekend so room together.
    After dinner she half to go bathroom.
    There 15 minute and wen she comes out I gag real fast.
    Smell like almost horse dung.
    I start think calls the tines I ate her ass and she love but now no more.
    Yuck!
    Mans all ways I eat her up no more!!
    She look great but her backside what cames out omg!

  1414. I direct this without argument to the faggot called SNIV JERBY.
    I heard that in recent years Snibb has been caught on hidden cam having intercourse with a blow up doll…is this true Snibb?
    Also, that Snibbs favorite pastime is sniffing bear rectum up in the mountains…OMG!
    I was shown a two year old photo of Snibbs.
    He’s about 5″10, 200 lbs with a beer belly, long hair and grayish beard.
    His teeth are ready for extraction to the the immense stench of gingivitis reeking from his yellowing tar colored teeth.
    In the photograph Snibbs is in a gi white but the bottom looked stained as there is a 12 inch streak of shit down to middle.
    Snibbs is in a serpent stance like him a snot encrusted piece of snot.
    I would certainly say that this video needing to verify queer is a dirty sunbathed moonshine drinking slob!
    Thank you for the opportunity to expose this hillbilly using a fake name called SNIBBS.
    By the way his nostrils are the size of quarters big enough to smell defecating du du from elderly anus.

  1415. You Snibbs you fiflthy whore where is Snibbs the bickering bitch?
    Snibss has a brown streak in the art of dirty underwear.
    His wife I think his name is Jommy has to tongue clean that pathetic severely stinking ass of Snibbs because Snibbs is a fag who jacks off to Ed Parker pictures.
    Snibbs I DARE YOU to respond clowny.
    Oh yeah Snibbs is a moonshine drinking dick lipper!!!

  1416. Melvin Harris

    Yeah I’m here to call out that slickster Greg Payne.
    I ain’t impressed with his skills and definitely his ACKI kenpo Chinese chump fa stuff.
    His go fer Joshua who called himself K enpo J aka k enpo jerk can kiss my deuce droppings rectum too!
    I DARE Bro Pain to submit his reply.
    We can spar point style then go for broke and brawl until one of us falls.
    You listening Gregory Pane?
    That right I picking on you cause you real cocky in your video with those crap classes of garbage martial arts is you?
    I comes from the hood my dirty neighbor hood made me a HOOD cause I is a bad mf so me vs Greg’s Pain and is shynese k enpo or his Shotocon both bullshit!
    Answer now you showoff!

  1417. My name is Chazz Longini and I trained in Kenpo but my Sensei Res Regurgitate would vomit during our practice at his attic dojang.
    Res would invoke students to take a healthy dump before classes and not wipe so that our beloved white gi bottoms had a 12 inch brown streak to inspire us all to kick lower and slap quicker.
    For the brown belt test we had to execute wheel kicks while simultaneously pushing charry turds from our buttholes!
    Black required we kick, strike, shit, punch, and growl while sniffing each others stank feet.
    Stop this decades worth of bad mouthing K enpo or Ed Parker you fiflthy slobs that put him down!!!
    ???

  1418. Mills Crenshaw

    I come back to defend and respond WITHOUT argument.
    All those disrespecting Ed Parker are like yapping dogs or meowing pussies!
    Therefore, I dismiss each one of you without remorse.
    Libby who started this nonsense is a beggar needing attention.
    Monfongo AKA Robert Libby is a delusional drunk!
    I must now leave the living and return to my resting place as I need to sleep through my beloved art Kenpo.
    My honorable mention to my student Master Martinez.
    Floating back to…it’s peaceful here.

  1419. Bowel Movements

    My belt is brown I breath would make you frown but in my overjoyed opinion your kenpo people are ludicrous clowns.
    Your art is atrocious, your techniques turd, is there one champion or are all of you flem.
    La la oh, gargaho, is k enpo j in love with Greg or is the central American gangster simply insane.
    His look is moderno his writing skills soiled, Joshua Greg and reciprocal kenpo is worst than lion dung.
    Like Bing Cosby used to say, ba ba ba boo ba ba ba boo.
    Now SCREW ALL of YOU!!!!

  1420. Carl Ca Ca Stenchfenverga

    May I post for your enlightenment?
    I DARE one of you tongue talkers to make one comment.
    Come on….do it!
    Heck my movements are not like bowels.
    But, my charry droppings will punish even the meanest sob here.
    Look :–( there’s a huge pile go put your noses real close while I practice my hyungs and one step protection proficies.

  1421. Mills Crenshaw

    Without argument I post humbly.
    I see, read, and hear from beyond that none of the “old geezers” here from yesteryear are posting in reply to some of the new, immature, and bitterly pathetic comments.
    From where I lay, I thought Shaffer, Harshman, Kenpo J, and other believers of Kenpo and followers of Grandmaster Parker would post to defend, so I ask unlike a yapping Yorkshire or panting pussy…CAT! Will one of YOU give me dialog as I am oh, it’s really peaceful now.
    Bye, bye?

  1422. Mills Crenshaw

    Without argument I post humbly.
    I see, read, and hear from beyond that none of the “old geezers” here from yesteryear are posting in reply to some of the new, immature, and bitterly pathetic comments.
    From where I lay, I thought Shaffer, Harshman, Kenpo J, and other believers of Kenpo and followers of Grandmaster Parker would post to defend, so I ask unlike a yapping Yorkshire or panting pussy…CAT! Will one of YOU give me dialog as I am oh, it’s really peaceful now.
    Bye, bye?

  1423. I answer you Crenshaw.
    Why you brag my feet stunk when La Bells choke on me and I fells to sleep?
    You did some Japanese voodoo ritual to make me wakes up and Never says to me about my feet.
    Why you don’t tell Genes that the air he release after I punch his soft abs was sos bad it make mes delirious.
    To now so manys decade laters the horrible stench is something I never go forgets Crenshaw.
    I use to hunt bear and his rectum oxygen was 1000 time bladder than grizzly bear craps!
    My hook and uppercut made Gene La Bell fart and them dam farts made me dizzy and easy for Genes to put them big hands on me and he strain and choke and let more ass air outs….whew!!!
    Man that smell was horrendous!!!

  1424. With a big one to argue I must engage you butt holes in my system called “But…you better sleep with Johnny Ryu”.
    For black belt your slong has to measure 14 inches after all my pecker is 19 1/2.
    From white to green you pull your pud daily to increase its length drill.
    For brown, you must smell my skinny backside interior that is until the smell enables you to jerk your stick faster than Lee’s kicks.
    For the black you MUST perform felacio upon my long and durable Dick while doing k enpo flowers up and down my whitefish smelling adrenal prick.

  1425. Victor Pendleton

    Well, well I guess all the bickering big mouths have retired!
    Old geezers chirping away like panting punks!
    Kenpo J…what a jerk!
    Video trained vagabond.
    Lobert Ribby tough, out of shape hater of Parker Edmund K,
    Steve…”I can’t breath, golping gasper”, Hershman the Kenpo lapping whitefish smelling master,
    Master Ken, the youtube kreep bad mouthing all styles physically limited FAKE!!!
    The Spanish soup slob Monfongo…YUK!
    And all others I may have missed pieces of waste disposal dumpster diving, jive talking treacherous tummy full of impacted heavily oatmeal like brown du du…all of you nothings deserve each other!!!
    Now, go play kenpo in the mirror and look at your pathetic selves as you practice the American Art of greatness…Karate!!
    Hi-Ja!!!

  1426. Ed Parker never legitimately earned higher than brown belt but the man had a 10th dan in psychology and marketing. Just reading some of the comments from the brainwashed Kenpo Kult is both hilarious and frightening. It is Jim Jones level of blind loyalty.

    • How did he become so popular and highly respected?
      I personally never liked any form of Kenpo.
      I found the legitimate, traditional Okinawan systems best suited for self defense.
      A brown belt brainwashed millions of followers, unbelievable!

  1427. This is Vic Le Roux co founder of IKCA Kenpo and defender of “the old man” my mentor Chuck Sullivan.
    I, we, Chuck and I are offended by the childish disrespect toward our Grandmaster Ed Parker.
    Therefore, to end this baseless nonsense, I am challenging all the individuals, one by one, to an open hand, anything goes “skills under beating” test/fight.
    My number is 714-229-0372.
    I am a resident of Seal Beach California and run a cycle shop by the beach.
    Whoever is interested in finding out just how effective Kenpo can be, you have my contact information.
    Get in touch!!!

  1428. My skills are superb, my farts smell like turds, but I am smarter than Einstein so go ahead and call me a nerd.
    I hate all you writers that for years gossiped and bitched if I had a dollar for every badmouth here I’d be rich, rich rich!
    Your all old anus anomaly like assholes to the core, as I sit on my marble latrine I know your under my big butt waiting for my brown fudge! :—) LOL!!!
    Here EAT!!! Coco pudding for all compliments of the newest addition to this forum of fakes…Cara De Chichando!!!

  1429. Back in the late 60’s/early 70’s, the kenpo seemed mystical to a kid from the ozarks, in the middle of flyover country. It seemed to stand for the ultra cool and exotic california beach and car culture, a land of eternal sunshine, beach parties and beautiful women that seemingly grew on trees, a vivid kodachrome utopia, whose siren song was almost irresistible. I can remember staring at photos of their studios in black belt, whose decor, which other than the shag carpet, resembled a mixture of a chinese restaurant and tiki lounge, completely gob stopped and thinking that this must surely be the real shit, the bridge to ancient secrets of enlightenment and lethality. That is until i met my first kenpo practitioner and thought surely something is amiss here, because this isn’t the kenpo i was looking for. Far from being the modern shaolin temple, it was just a bunch of cobbled together nonsense put forth by a fast talking rotund kanaka.

  1430. Caca is brown kenpos for clowns go see the heat on the beach and conditioning development so I can get two workouts in the morning sweetie. Best Cable Deals for your house and the guy is a little kid and he fought for your help ? have to get my elderly shot and then go back to the press conference dressed to the nines without Tommy Karate Pitera and I approve of the opponents bones for my kids to get two of those quick Ali like that you have been trying for a while
    For your house and I approve of your time and response to your email address is being worked out in the backseat

  1431. Shitsei Brown Drop Smells Bad

    Spread the wall with my bowel movement, dark and tarry stench cause I’m a grench.
    Odors horrible, aroma putrid, close your eyes smell denied your no good.
    If Kenpo Joshua reads this tell him that I left a turd for him.

  1432. Where is bobert liberty where is the Thai Jewish aartial martial?
    I need to see if bobert can match parker by straining a huge board like turd from his arse.
    I can only fantasize at the straining facial features of this big man as he forces those bricks of shit out of his Jewish American prince potent smelling anus.
    Bobert say something you Parker Kenpo hater!

  1433. Gizzie hester

    X fire where are thee do you smell real nice, I bet you use that ancient perfume called old spice.
    Ed Parker used paco rabane and a mix of parrot dropping but I wouldn’t mind knowing are your bowels huge and shocking?
    We all know your a laughter like master of various arts the prince of disaster, but I think you should challenge kenpo j, bo bo Libby, or even shuck cullivan a high ranking legit icon of the stuff called
    Oh oh, can’t hold it as I drop five pear shaped chunks my facial features strain cause the last one is stuck.
    Any volunteering hands to pull out the batter like fudge?
    Kindly advise or contact my manager grandmaster x fire come on baby light my fire.
    Plop plop fiz fiz oh I can’t push out that turd.

  1434. Ed was not perfect by any means and it is time to come to terms that Kenpo is highly ineffective. There are just too many moves and many of its techniques are silly. It incorporates weapons from both the Chinese and Okinawan regions and its forms are pretty awful. I earned my black belt in Kenpo in 1990 and at the time, it seemed an amazing art, 1990 was also the year Mr. Parker passed away, unexpectedly of a massive heart attack. He was 59 and aside from this topic, it makes you realize how we have to control what we eat, our levels of stress, and health as we grow older.

    In any event, Parker learned Kenpo from William KS Chow, who learned Kosho Ryu Kenpo from a con man and murdered named James Mitose. William KS Chow, who was proficient in other styles went on to create the Kara Ho Kempo System. Mr. Parker’s teacher was William KS Chow.

    When Ed opened up his first school, his first generation students learned an art similar to what Mr. Chow had taught him. In fact, many of the surviving first generation students will tell you that their Kenpo does not resemble any other the future stuff Mr. Parker would go on to teach their succeeding generations.

    Parker became heavily influenced by guys like James H. Woo, and other notables like Bruce Lee whose lineages can neither be accounted for or traced. Bruce Lee was an actor, but he was barely a martial artist. There are no accounts of any fights that Bruce Lee ever had nor is there any account that he actually ever completed his Wing Chun training. James H. Woo would create something called Kung Fu San Soo, which purprotedly derives from both Norther and Southern Kung Fu influences and Kenpo or Kempo was supposedly brought to the mainland by Mitose from Japan where he allegedly learned it at a Japanese Temple, though there is no account of that whatsoever.

    Keep in mind, that back in the day, information or access to information was not as readily available as it is today. So, it was easier for someone to con another or several and especially during this martial arts renaissance period in the West, if you will. Everyone was also looking for rank and many did not want to put in the time.

    If Woo was the architect to the Kenpo forms, then it just shows that Woo knew nothing, at best, learned a garden variety of Kung Fu because the Kenpo forms are all pretty awful. The techniques in Kenpo are highly ineffective as well. Today with a black belt in Judo and a brown belt in Brazilian Jiu Jitsu, I can tell you that any technique for a counter or defense to head lock, double leg, bear hug, choke, etc in Kenpo will get you killed.

    Its hard to swallow this pill and many of you are not going to like it, but its true. Kenpo was born our of the mind of a con, James Mitose and it continued to evolve in such a fashion. The Tracy Brothers who were mentioned here, were brown belts with Ed Parker, became disgruntled when Parker did not award them a black belt, left and then later claimed that they found the person who taught them the entire Kenpo System and that Parker only knew a portion of it, but KS Chow never taught them, so you have to wonder. It is difficult to speak on these matters because all of these people are dead, but it is the truth.

    Today, what exists are just a few shards of what once appeared to be a diamond, more like a cubic zirconium really. There are some schools left, where there used to be so many, some guys like Jeff Speakman have evolved the art in a more practical way and that is great, others stick to what they were taught, and for others, the kenpo they teach is unrecognizable from what they learned.

    You need to understand that there is no such thing as Chinese Kenpo. Kenpo did not grow out of the Shaolin Monastery or any other temple for that matter. Kenpo is not thousands of years old. The genesis of this martial arts was in the mind of a snake oil salesman named James Mitose and as it was handed down, it was altered time and time again.

    What Parker taught his second generation of black belts and thereafter, had nothing to do with what KS Chow had taught him. By then, Kenpo was flashy, its techniques were completely alien to what KS Chow taught which ponders a very important thought to me, if the Tracy Brothers did revert to the root of what was originally taught to Ed and in deed they did find this individual who taught them the complete Kenpo System, then their system could have never resembled what Ed Parker was teaching at the time because that was very far apart from what he was taught.

    When Parker died in 1990, the entire IKKA System fell apart. It was not so much in his lack of leaving or naming a successor, but rather, how many power hungry people wanted the title of Grand Master and how many organizations were born where so many would go on to promote themselves or join organizations that would recognize them and upgrade them for money. I never saw so many Kenpo Grandmasters as I did during the decade of the 1990’s. how many branched off from the 24 technique per belt, stripe etc. to 16 and even 8. How many people pulled out pictures of them with Ed Parker and promoted themselves as if they knew the man, if they were close. It was a compete disaster.

  1435. For anyone who cares, Robert Libby passed away in 2021.

  1436. Mr. Libby,
    Please confirm that you are ok, alive and well.
    I decided to come on and see what if anything was happening and was both shocked and saddened by someone claiming that you passed away.
    Please confirm and refer to any of our past comments so I know it’s really you. As for me, I train twice a week for health.
    One boxing workout, one weights.
    Stretching the rest.
    I received some minor injuries sparring and in two fights where I was overmatched.
    The latest big news as you probably know, is Jake Paul the YouTube kid turned boxer fighting Anderson Silva in October.
    Should be interesting and regardless, Paul is worth 310 million and Silva is getting 5 million to box him more than he ever made in MMA or in UFC.
    Truly hope you and your family are well Mr. Libby.

    • As you were nice. I am fine. Weight at 195, pulse of 110/55 and heart rate of 55 beats per minute.
      And this is Robert Libby. When people go to fecal humor and crappy Spanish it’s time to say goodbye. This morphed into a shit show for 10 year olds.

  1437. Glad to know you’re ok.
    Take care.

  1438. For Immediate Relief

    Foul Stench Promotions proudly announces the creation of two disgusting characters,
    Granny Stenchstein and El Senor Pudricion.
    Their “act” will debut on YouTube on or about a date TBA.
    The synopsis of the act will include Stenchstein and Pudricion recording fart gags in public preferably fine dining establishments, Mexican taquerias, Dominican bodegas, and Kosher Deli’s so that they may record the horrific Stench of elder butt wind as a Mehicano complains in broken English around unsuspecting and repulsed people while dining or purchasing Pastrami on rye.
    In the act the fat Stenchstein all 350 pounds will walk in with her “companion” who is a tequila drinking, rotting teeth “wele peo” type.
    Granny will start complaining “My tummy doesn’t feel so nice” before cutting loose with some loud, ancient aroma style farts
    Pudricion will respond “Fos que pestecita” AKA “whew what a nice smell” to which Granny yells “Here, smell this your Latin loving cabron” then releasing more wind and possibly a chunk or two of residual kakita AKA potty poop.
    As patrons start to gag and some regurgitate their cuisine, both Stenchstein and Pudricion start laughing so hard they simultaneously cut farts, super set style, Stenchstein smelling like a Jewish deli and Pudricions reeking of bean burritos.
    This is destined to move from dining and Deli’s to dojos as the two characters join a self defense class or karate hall to start farting together as they kick and punch their way to brown belt by using their white belts as Charmin tissue.
    Don’t miss it!!!

  1439. Dojo Dung Dramatics

    Oss to all the crappers!
    I am competing against For Immediate Relief in my newly formed act…DOJO DUNG!
    In this uniquely created GAG, I will join dojos across the US as my hidden camera bitch, my high school buddy, Zodger Repka films me asking stupid questions, and signing contracts to take lessons.
    I will alternate between Brazilian ju jitsu schools, takewondo dojangs, and Diploma mill dojo types.
    Upon my first class I will FART, then complain as I kick, followed up by taking a DUMP in my white gi.
    As the odor of putrid fecal fudge fills the air and repulses sensei and other pupils, I will continue practicing as my white pajama gi leg turns coco color.
    As I am escorted to the latrine I’ll squat and yell “oh no can’t control it”!
    It will be posted for all you to look.
    Ha!

  1440. I DEMAND that all of the braggarts, cocky slobs, and kenpo lovers AND haters RESPOND to my comment.
    You BITCHES and whiners are ancient and don’t have the energy, skill set, or strength to touch me in any way of combat.
    I am Great Grandmaster Refugio Zorres.
    My rank is Yodan in traditional Okinawan style karate which I modified while doing time in Honduras.
    The system has been tested in the proving ground of…LA CARCER!!!
    With the addition of my thousand rep style pushup and Hindu squats I will defy all records of the best martial legends.
    I will reiterate my respect to the first responder, the rest of you “homosexuals” and “maricones” can sniff my testicules, and sip on my “lemonade” spiked with CHURAS!!!
    Now bad asses, what ya gotta say?
    SPEAK!!!
    I condone you to answer me…NOW!!!!!

  1441. Keep me name…Robert Libby OUT of your debates, please.
    I am retired and living in tranquility.
    May 2023 be a good year for peace and harmony among those that come here to post comments and learn from those with sincerity.

  1442. Gentleman,
    I would like to know what is or has been happening.
    The Ed Parker/Kenpo bashing went on for many years, with comments from real people, and some individuals using bogus names to “vent”.
    Nothing was accomplished, right?
    The fact of the matter is that every person who posted under their real name had something positive to contribute to these debates.
    Mr. Libby, Joshua Kenpo, the soldier(thank you for your service)and others that have passed away.
    On the topic of Kenpo, I have to agree with a few of you that the IKCA created the most movement effective, retainable system of self defense.
    That said, I would like to get feedback, if you guys are willing and able, on what you’ve done Martial Arts wise since the debates, and bashing ended.
    What hurts me most, is that through all of the negatives thrown out regarding
    Ed Parker nothing positive was accomplished, and the poor man’s name and reputation were tarnished till eternity.
    Like him or not, Parker did a lot to promote the arts.
    His son and surviving family had to endure through years of very bad postings.
    In my humble opinion an apology is in order, and I’ll be the first one to step up and tell the Parker family that I am deeply sorry for what was said on this forum.
    Who else is with me on the stage of sincere apologies?
    Please do your part and leave your message to the Parker family.
    Thank you in advance for your anticipated consideration of this request.

    • You’ll never see an apology from me. Parker was a thief and liar. The IKCA us a total scam and disgrace. And Joshua Pestaner is a clown that was too much of a coward to spar Irish Billy Mack.
      You are totally delusional.

  1443. Dear Mr. Libby,
    How is the ikca a scam sir?
    Most important in what way was Grandmaster Parker a liar and their?
    If you can be more specific I might change my view and retract my previous comment.
    Lastly, I am not familiar with the cancelled sparring match between Bill Mack and Joshua.
    I am only interested in the truth.
    After all, the truth only bends one way.

    • Simple- the techniques are a fraud and absolutely do not work. Ed never had a fight in his life and knew nothing about fighting.
      Any more dumb questions?

    • Okay. This is the truth as to the schism between me and Parker. When I stopped running the Santa Monica school I could have taken many of the students- 1 went with me.
      I started my own thing at a local health club and left on okay terms. So a guy named Grunwald who was a green belt or something like that said one of my instructors, another guy Ed Parker screwed, was a punk and liar so I backed my instructor and asked him to settle it later if he wanted to. So he called Ed Parker and told Ed that while in the entrance to a health club in Westwood, California, a very wealthy area, I tore up my black belt certificate from Ed, urinated on it and said Ed Parker was shit. WOW!And Ed believed him! And Ed who was notoriously late with certificates never gave me mine! What did I tear up?
      So Ed called the owner and told him to get rid of me or he’d come to the club and hurt people- notice he never called me to see if it was true or threatened me. So I called him and told him anytime and any place- he ran! His wife called me and asked me not to kill him.
      Ed had a very sketch history and was always screwing up. Elvis bailed him out and so did a bunch of his instructors. When Ed got nailed by the IRS we all got together- me, Bob Eisele, Sam Estrada Rick Carthew, Vic Leroux, Jerry Leichtman and a few more and we saved Ed’s ass. We first cleaned out Pasadena, Santa Monica and Long Beach. Then we bought industrial paint and rented a compressor and repainted his schools. Then we sanitized all the mats and decorated the schools. I was teaching and managing for free so people like Sam Estrada could get paid and save Ed and the school.
      So to say “thanks” Ed believed a pathological liar despite my years of loyalty, never checked if it was true and burned me to the ground over some insane story.
      Any more questions?

  1444. Thank you for being candid about your experiences with Grandmaster Parker.
    I’d be extremely angry as well.
    That part about ripping up your diploma and urinating on it, if it were true is repulsive, disgusting, and totally disrespectful to the honor of those that earned legitimate certification in the Martial Arts.
    Based on your reply and it seriously doubt you would lie, I am retracting my comment on Ed Parker but will withhold saying anything negative since I don’t have first hand experiences.
    I guess kenpo in all it’s forms, including the lean, mean IKCA derivative is garbage as reiterated by you sir.
    You’ve been forthcoming and gracious.

  1445. Although no longer associated with the IKCA I hold true that what Chuck and I did was create an extremely effective stand up art that can and WILL serve your self defense needs.
    If all one has is the IKCA, no grappling, BJJ they are still in a better position to defend themselves than 85% of the population.
    Chuck and I knew that the Arthur Murray’s version of kenpo had to be simplified in order to work and be used spontaneously under pressure.
    The 55 techniques, even without our critique, can be blended and combined for further effectiveness.
    Chuck and I went a step further by including the use of sneakers while training, as well as, forgoing any type of warm-up so that the IKCA material can be practiced cold, the same way one would be if attacked.
    I’ve had biker friends that were customers of my shop take private lessons who used IKCA kenpo many times.
    IKCA kenpo IS effective and the techniques have been modified to be used in most self defense situations.
    If anyone has any questions please feel free to direct them to me and I would gladly answer to the best of my ability.

    • Nope! The techniques are crap Vic. Parker was a clown and I can defeat virtually every Kenpo technique with just 2 inputs- move or mildly resist.
      Take Twin Kimono- just don’t bend your elbows as prescribed and the whole technique fails.
      Shield and Sword- just move 4 inches.
      All the knife techniques will get you killed! And Parker knew NOTHING about fighting.
      He wouldn’t fight me 1 on 1 so his whole reputation is pure garbage.

      • Respect your fighting ability but you are lacking in humility.
        Kenpo IS as effective as the individual who takes it seriously and practices.

  1446. Hello Robert!
    Long time.
    I will make this brief.
    I am not referring to Ed’s version, mine, ours, the method Chuck and I simplified does and has worked.
    Often times, not in their entirety but parts of the self defense drills.
    The Master Form was created to be an all inclusive workout to assist maintenance of the techniques.
    If one is short on time going through it helps retain it.
    In terms of self defense, the IKCA method works very well Robert.
    Now, if we’re talking about a one on one fight, then under those circumstances an individual under the IKCA would do themselves justice to train in a punch/kick fighting art like Muay Thai, kickboxing, or something similar.
    For self defense we put together a respectable, reliable, retainable form of Kenpo.
    Be well !

  1447. Robert,
    Why are you anti kenpo, and why are you trying to put IKCA kenpo in the same category as less effective methods?
    You were a kenpoist Robert.
    Isn’t our art near and dear to your heart?
    Just because you had a falling out with the “old man” is not a reason to put down the same art that gave you your start?
    You know me fairly well Robert, and you must be aware that kenpo has always served me well.
    As for video testing, we, Chuck and I pioneered it.
    98% of our video tested black belts are as good, and in some cases BETTER than many of our in house students.
    In fact, in the very beginning of the IKCA when we had students testing on the dummy we gave instructions to build, and later when Century was producing training dummies for the IKCA, several students wrote, called, and emailed Chuck and I to let us know that they were forced to use IKCA in numerous self defense situations and it worked.
    These video self taught students were strictly practicing on a training dummy, without a live, resisting opponent.
    Please try to be unbiased, and look back in time.
    I guarantee that when you were a part of the American Kenpo brotherhood there were times that you relied on the system to get you out of a pinch.
    Your brother in Kenpo,
    Vic Le Roux

  1448. Please let me follow up and clarify a few things of importance.
    Robert Libby was an excellent Martial Artist with very good skills if I recall correctly.
    A big man with good technique who is in shape is a dangerous man and this would be the Robert Libby I remember.
    Whether “The old man” backed out of a challenge issued is something I cannot confirm, although the word back then was that Robert did communicate with Ed and in a not so nice or respectful way.
    Had Robert stayed on board with kenpo I would put him at least 5th, maybe 6th black.
    I wish Robert the best and he’s entitled to his opinions, we are entitled to ours.
    IKCA kenpo is an extremely good art for self defense and more.
    Your brother in Kenpo,
    Vic Le Roux

  1449. Larry Ferrante

    Good Afternoon Gentleman,
    I stumbled onto this site while doing a research project on Ed Parker.
    Seriously, and with respect to the followers of Ed Parker and the art of kenpo, the only traditional karate systems that work under pressure and have practical self defense applications are most of the Okinawan systems.
    I am sorry to bring this to your attention but Mr. Parker’s exhibition of skills on a YouTube episode of “Lucy” is at best, green belt level.
    There is a video of Mr. Parker performing some techniques with Mr. Sullivan which look a little better and smoother, however they seem to be advanced brown level by the standards set forth within our dojo.
    I am only pointing out the obvious and my criticism certainly doesn’t detract from what Mr. Parker did to promote the arts.

  1450. Grandmaster Temple

    IKCA kenpo effective, simple, retainable.

  1451. My fellow Martial Artists,
    I am here to promote my “Reciprocal Self Defense System”.
    Taking everything I have learned over the decades and refined the techniques to fit with today’s self defense needs, I am confident that my methodology is ground breaking.
    I have put the entire system on ONE DVD where you’ll get over FIFTEEN HOURS of quality instruction.
    I am assisted by my loyal, longtime student and high ranking black belt Joshua AKS “Kenpo”.
    I have also implemented a ONE TIME video test that will require those purchasing my self study system to practice all the material for ONE YEAR before submitting their Shodan test.
    The fee is a reasonable $175.00 and I will issue a “Certificate of Completion” certifying those who finish a legitimate 1st Degree Black Belt ranking.
    The DVD purchase also includes a 100 page manual with monthly training and workout progressions that get harder each month.
    If the home training practitioner is unable to physically progress, he or she must spend an additional one month on that specific training module.
    Training and advancement is based on the “honor system”.
    For security and to protect the credit, debit, or banking information of those who purchase my DVD, payment can only be made via USPS or Western Union money orders.
    Once individuals post their interest in the comments, and after there are a minimum of ten, I will post a secure mailing address in Maryland for you to mail payment.
    There are no hidden costs or additional shipping and handling fees.
    I look forward to your interest and thank all in advance for your anticipated consideration.

  1452. Payne’s cours like the IKCA and the rest of Kenpo be it live instruction or by video is CRAP!
    It never worked under the watchful eye of a Kenpo instructor and definitely by self training.
    I have seen some IKCA people on YouTube and they don’t look that proficient, period.
    Now it looks like Payne and his blabber mouthed video black belt Joshua are following in the footsteps of all the money hungry video vagabonds.
    How pathetic!

  1453. Video Vagabonds…LOL!!
    Blabber mouthed video black belt…LOL!!!
    Nope, not me…LOL!!!!
    What is wrong with you?
    If it is not you, Robert Libby, then who is posting these ridiculous comments?
    If the truth is being posted who cares, right?
    Greg Payne, Joshua Pesterner, and the real Robert Libby must be rolling around on the ground cracking up!!!

  1454. Before I forget.
    It’s time to get serious and for all of the immature, disrespectful commenters to get a life.
    No one is interested in hearing your unverified blah, blah, blah about Grandmaster Ed Parker and the Scientific System he created, American Kenpo.
    If that man were alive not of one you detractors would post comments or tell him what you think to his face.
    Ed Parker would slap each one of you into unconsciousness and would the make you wash his gi, and clean the dojo floor with your toothbrushes before you brushed.
    You know who you are, SAD…SAD that’s what you people are.

  1455. This is the real Robert Libby.
    The only sad people posting here are the unqualified, video promoted black belts and their hypnotized peers who themselves are as bad, if not more so than the “here’s my video test” kenpo believers.
    I also feel like the person posting under my name is that little lying cunt Joshua P!

    • Not me. Ask Vic Leroux about painting the Santa Monica school to save Ed Parker and who was there- Sam Estrada, Rick Carthew, me, Lex Sensenbrenner, George Waire, Bob Eisele.
      I ran the school. Vic will know these things as he was there. Vic had a dark van then.
      I’ll respond to his other question later.

      • It’s not you?
        Who is using your name to post commentary?
        Why is the kenpo community doubting you?
        Are people posting here fakes using aliases?
        Please enlighten me as I would like to know.

        • Joshua Pestaner admitted he used multiple names. Go look back to 2015 when Steve Shaffer refused to meet ne to show why kenpo techniques fail. I can beat all kenpo/IKCA techniques with one act- resist. Say you take Twin Kimono- just don’t cooperate and the whole technique fails miserably.
          Please look at a post I actually where I named many of the people that rebuilt Ed Parker’s schools- only those present would know this.
          And yes, kenpo is a joke as it has been since say 1973- very different art in the 1960s. And yes, kenpo is a cult and why I left.
          And I am Robert Libby that ran Santa Monica and chise Ed Parker off. Even Tom Bleecker admitted to that.

          • Pete Wilson

            I appreciate your answers and candor
            Mr. Libby.
            It was quite entertaining to go back to 2015 and read all the comments from different people.
            It certainly seems to me that many, rather than respect your opinion and honesty, took the road of disrespect and ganged up on you.
            I’d like to offer a suggestion.
            Put together a YouTube channel and post an all inclusive video presentation covering all of what you posted going back many years.
            If anyone of your detractors or critics wish to respond welcome them on the condition that they post a video.
            The reason I feel that’s important is because I read some comments where certain kenpo people were criticizing you on your physical statistics.
            Many of them are probably in worse condition, and not due to injuries like you, but maybe they’re lazy and do not train.
            This gives you fodder for calling them on their all talk, no substance comments.
            You certainly have my respect and should be getting theirs as well.
            You sound like a stand up, no nonsense Martial Artist.
            The practical self defense community needs more men like you Mr. Libby.

          • Ron Chimelenski

            I have just issued you an open request.
            Read it and comment with your answer.
            You must be taught to respect both video and like me BOOK self trained Martial Artists.
            There are many, like me, who can fight and handle adequately.
            Answer my inquiry ASAP

    • Sorry but not me. I’ll submit a historical reference about Jenpo in the 1960s to prove who I am

  1456. Mr. Libby,
    I believe everything you’ve said.
    There is no need to entertain the critics and naysayers on this forum.
    I’ve read everything comment going back to the very beginning of these arguments and debates.
    You have remained consistent with your responses.
    I’ve seen some of your older videos and I can tell you this, injuries or not I would not want to be on the receiving end of your punches or strikes.
    I’d be interested in your responses only because you’re one of the most if not the most credible source here.
    No nonsense, no bs, just truth and factual information.
    Do not allow the people who are jealous of you to prevent you from giving us real information.

  1457. American Kenpo certified and also competed in amateur kickboxing with collegiate wrestling experience prior to my Martial Arts journey.
    Kenpo works, but not in a sports setting.
    I’ve had several street altercations and road rage incidents that unfortunately had to be handled physically.
    What helped me wasn’t my kickboxing or wrestling experience, it was Kenpo that got the job done effectively and efficiently.
    Every Kenpo practitioner on this forum knows what I have known for over fifteen years.
    Property trained American Kenpo is versatile and one of the top three systems for self defense.

  1458. Not Delusional

    It’s really simple… any martial art that is mainly based off of theory where most of the time it’s not being applied against a resisting opponent, is worthless. In the day of everybody having a camera in their pocket, there’s plenty of evidence on what works and what doesn’t.. it doesn’t matter if it’s traditional, or not traditional… the ones that work, are actually applied against a resisting appointment, and are not over, complicate it for the most part. It’s easy to fool people, but almost impossible to convince somebody they’ve been fooled.

  1459. Well said and on point non delusional.

  1460. Press Release.
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    The cream is oranged colored and smells like lavender fabreez.
    Simply insert the tongue like prong into ones bottom pushing two onces of this delicious dung destroyer and patiently sit on your johnny, wait one minute and strain, push, and like me kia until out you flush the mud like “stuff”.
    My first use I dropped a fifteen pound deuce.
    Only accepting international money orders to: Bowels Be Gone
    BO Box 89 What’s that Stench
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    I look forward to helping ALL rid themselves of impacted Molton Lava Cake Looking DuDu

  1461. Ron Chimelenski

    I issue challenge to Lobert Ribby NOW!
    My game is karate 4th kyu green and five years learning JUKADO from Bruce Tegner book.
    Plus, I punch Everlast bag 3 times for 3 minutes each two day per weeks.
    Last month I decide to give myself the black belt 3rd degree because I train myself for six year and I compare my stuff to 3rd black on YouTube and I throw as good maybe better than most of them.
    I read all of Loberts put down about video practicing people so I figured his opinion of book learning Martial artists is worse so challenging him to prove I can fight.
    If this big talker has guts and is as tough as his talking he should accept.
    We can fight in dojo of his choice or lumpini stadium I don’t care.
    I have money to travel because my parents won publishers clearing house a few years back and put me on a allowance of $1500 a week.
    All I do is practice and read books on Martial arts knowledge is power and my power will defeat Mr. Trash talk anytime.
    If ROBERT LIBBY reads this response to my challenge.
    I am not like the rest of the scared sissies here who talk but never took your defiance of their ability serious.
    My green belt karate knowledge combined with my JUKADO self taught techniques and my punching bag power can and will shut you up, zip that big mouth, quiet your critic complaints once and for all.
    I am waiting for your response.
    If you don’t, you’re nothing but a big blabber mouth brute who has picked on Kenpo guys for decades.

  1462. Ron Chimelenski

    I thought so.
    This cat Robert LIBBY is all talk.
    He can pick on Kenpo guys, but won’t bring his gift of the gab to a real challenger like yours truly.
    Listen you big brute of a bully.
    Stay silent and NEVER, ever come here to call out Kenpo people or defame a dead man like Parker.
    Keep your commentary to yourself and leave the Kenpo guys, video learners, and book experts like me alone, understand?
    To all others reading, I challenged Robert LIBBY and he hushed cause he knows I know he’s all blah blah blah, you won’t here from this bully anymore.

  1463. Ron Chimelenski

    Rob, oh Rob… Robert Libby where are YOU?
    Say something you, you, you…loud mouth!
    Ed Parker would have cleaned your clock grubby..yes sir.
    Do you fart on kue, Lobert Ribby says his farts smell like the aroma coming from old women who crap four times a week and use

  1464. My friend churi gapplimidan an former undefeated Muay Thai fighter from the Lumpini stadium just called to tell me that Libby, as in Robert once went to a fight of his and during intermission took off to drop a deuce.
    The odor was so unconditional that Lumpini had to reschedule the remaining fights for one month as the maintenance professionals worked round the clock to clean and disinfect the stall Lobert had taken a DUMP in.
    The residual turd droplets were dark and tarry looking with a distinction of smell that was reminding of stale pastrami, fresh corned beef, and boiled cabbage…WHEW!!!
    I wonder if the streaks on his triple extra large boxers are caramel colored, tarry or licorice color, or a combo of those with a hint of yellow mustard?
    Again…I emphasize WHEW?

  1465. Libby, Libby… anybody seen Robert Libby?
    I challenge this Martial Arts bruiser to respond, immediately!
    See, this pastrami eating loud mouth is cognizant of my ability to use karate or even my intermediate knowledge of kenpo to destroy him.
    After all I’ve read and YEARS of his downright derogatory opinion of Ed Parker and the Kenpo he has come to his senses and now intelligently comprehends that most of the kenpo people on this blog can kick his butt!!!
    Shaffer, Joshua J, Bleacher, and OTHERS have to constructive control not to have believed this rough talking, two timing, good for trash talk only belligerent practitioner of his own disgraceful, limited set of unique techniques.
    Libby, Libby… anybody seen Robert Libby?

  1466. Whew!!
    Smell that? :–(
    I hear Lobert Ribby left four pounds of tarry turds on the dojo floor.
    His grandmaster made Libby wipe the floor with acv and peppermint spray.
    Used TEN white towels that turned Nutella colored and stunk like ancient mummified crap.
    I challenge Libby Robert to a drop a turd competition.
    I bet he gets crowned undisputed dudu dropper… Libby, yuk the same reeks of :—-(

  1467. WELL, LIBBY didn’t respond.
    Now EVERYONE on this forum knows he was…all talk.
    I have no doubt that he WAS a bad ass in his youth, but he didn’t keep training so now his best defense is cutting a ferocious fart that would bring down Brock Lesnar and a grizzly.
    Robert Libby is a master farter who’s “wind” WOULD defeat Ed Parker, Bruce Lee, AND Michael Tyson at the same SNIFF.

  1468. The stench is atrocious, the odor is bad, whoever left that pile of fudge is most certainly sad.
    The toilet seat is broken, there’s two rolls of toilet paper in the latrine, I KNOW it was Robert Libby just trying to be mean.
    When I flushed it bowled over leaving coco colored water on my floor, it was lobert ribby the Ed Parker hating whore!
    Man, it smells so disgusting, more like donkey poo, if Libby don’t respond it’s because of who… Robert Libby!!!
    Guys, kenpo fanatics, martial arts masters and more Robert Libby’s fecal matter is mud like cement with a pinch of big man s—!
    Where’s Libby?
    Anybody seen Robert?

  1469. A HA HA, A HA HA, A HA HA!!!
    Bobby Libby replied, told me to just go die, his breath stunk like skunk and if I’m 5 mentally he’s 1 wears pampers and leaves as much dukey equal to a full jar of peanut butter!!!
    But, this man’s food release smells…. horrible!
    If Libby would write with intelligent academic and retrocecal Grammer I Ronald would converse in a more respectful manner, buy Lib has no respect cause if he did he’d show regret for basing Ed, correct?
    This bafoon of a retired martial artist don’t smell so nice.
    OK so he’s big and bulky and could probably ko some untrained fluke, but if he combined his world class BO with his bruiser techniques he would defeat many.
    Speaking the the feet, he needs a pedi.
    I’m venting because you bafoon disrespected my teacher and mentor Ed Parker one time too many.
    You NEVER challenged him cause had you, you’d be wearing dentures instead of your yellowing fangs.
    You ARE going to RESPECT Ed Parker and apologize to his son and family Robert Libby
    That’s not a request bafoon, that’s an order!
    I will stop badgering you the moment you post an apology for starting the years of cruel and unnecessary negative comments about a decent man, a legend, the creator of American Kenpo Edmund K. Parker.

  1470. LOL :—)
    Kobert Fibby called out Ed Parker yeah right!
    This blatant bruiser’s nose is longer than Pinocchio’s.
    I wonder if it’s long enough for Libby to smell his own….farts!
    Can you guys smell that?
    I feel like I’m in a horse stable.
    Look :–(
    The bruiser is practicing Kenpo while looking at Mike Pick and Larry Tatum shorts.
    Can you imagine the bruiser Fibby standing in front of the great Larry Tatum absorbing rapid fire strikes?
    Fibby would ask for less contact and maybe even cut one.
    One apology is all it takes Robert Libby.
    You’ve put down many here who are both outstanding kenpoists and gentlemen.
    I’m convinced they will all forgive you if you take back your nasty comments pertaining to Mr. Parker.
    I ain’t asking either, I’m telling ya to apologize I know you have room in your heart to forgive yourself.
    If you’re a TRUE Martial Artist and have one once of goodness in you… APOLOGIZE!!!!!

  1471. ???? Libby dumped three bowel movements in his dojo potty.
    I had to take a crap and push two pounds of pastrami on rye out of my huge arce hole.
    I am contemplating apologizing to all of this rotten sob Ron keeps putting my rubbish in this truthful vocal cords.
    I admit, I think me and Ed would have fought to a draw, but if I cut a fart Ed would have lost his breathing potential.
    My duece droplets are decent.
    Thank you Ron C for making me understand the childish comments throughout the years mean nothing to the ears of the masters here.
    I beg Joshua and Bleeker to forgive me as I confess to being a jerk.

  1472. There’s a lot of really immature people posting ridiculous comments here.
    In defense of Robert Libby I am here to tell each of you that he was an excellent instructor when I trained with him.
    I had the privilege of spending over three years under his tutelage and he ran a hard, no nonsense class.
    Not muscular, but more like a linebacker build he was very powerful and had very fast punches and kicks for a big guy.
    His claims should not be taken as falsehoods.
    He was the real deal and if he had wanted to pursue boxing or full contact fighting full time professionally, had the skills to at the very least challenge and possibly win something like a US title in full contact.
    Boxing, well he could have fought as a journeyman giving named fighters a run for their money.
    I am not going to get involved in consistent comments or debates on this forum.
    So take my one time post for what it is.
    Robert Libby was a very competent Martial Artist who could fight, and all of his claims on this blog from what I can recall are legitimate.
    He is not some keyboard warrior bragging about his accomplishments.
    There’s a lot of envy and jealousy in the Martial Arts now, and definitely when I was a student of Robert Libby’s.
    When you have someone that sways from tradition and the usual brown nosing that is so prevalent in the arts it tends to rub people the wrong way so they try to discredit those choosing to publicly address the faults of legends and challenge the authority of their followers.
    Never doubt what someone is claiming to have done or accomplished just because they are not as well known as the ones the magazines promoted.
    I have nothing else to say.

  1473. I am repulsed by the thought of some ablo hisponjoli butt kisser like this Julio complementing Dobert Cibby.
    The brawny Libby has turds big enough for Julio and all the other Libby followers to use a kettlebells.
    The braggart Robert Libby has not responded to my comments because you can’t challenge the truth.
    And the truth is that lobert ribby is big, was tough, and in his youngin days had substantial nice kenpo until he started to subconsciously program himself to believe in fairy tale format that he called out Ed Parker and that Grandmaster Parker got scared, and I won the lottery last night if you believe the bullshit.
    For all here who tired of Libby and his kindergarten stories please imagine this bulky bragging bullshitter dropping foul feces after eating pastrami sandwiches, lox, bagels, herring, and some of those matza crackers.
    As they plunge out of his…oh gosh, smell that?

  1474. The repulsive odor has continued just by my reading all of Libby’s old posts.
    It has made me requrgitate my polish kielbasa.
    Thereby, I will be leaving here to never comment about the disgusting degenerate verbal abuser of Ed Parker, ROBERT LIBBY!
    It’s for the best and I consider it a huge victory that he never responded to my critical comments pertaining to his substandard skill set.
    To Kenpo J, Shaffer, Kenpo Soldier, and the others who were abused by this parasites pathetic insults…I SHUT HIM UP, and it is OUR VICTORY!!!

  1475. I happen to be dyslexic Libby so maybe my spelling ain’t perfect by your standards but neither are your skills by mine.
    Today is not the day to batter you with the usual.
    Happy July 4th to all kenpoists, decent and above board Martial Artists, and everyone who dislikes Robert Libby.

    • “You shall know the quality if your life by your enemies” and if Kenpo frauds hate me I’m doing just fine. Go look up the Parker video with Frank Trejo where Parker goes for the Dance of Death and falls on his fat uncoordinated ass- I tjink in Chile. I just showed a video of Parker on “I Spy”, “Court of the Lion” episode and they laughed at how horribly abysmal he was. They thought he was a white belt!

  1476. I will look it up and IF it shows what you say, will come back to say “I’m sorry” to you Libby.

  1477. I only saw something on YouTube from some Spanish show where Master Parker Trejo and others demo.
    OK, so he didn’t look that good, I’ll give you that.
    Not worth an apology but enough for me to retire from making comments on this site.

  1478. Brian Kendleman

    Hey Cabrones De Martial Arts,
    Yo meh mamo Brian Kendleman.
    Soy Whodio perro Tengo familia de El barrio en Filadelfia.
    Yo Vendo cigars en mi barra de cigars.
    Porques I tanta personas attacando al la persona llamada Rob Liby?
    Abusadores no mehresen respecto.
    Escribi en Hiapanol porque meh crea en Filadelfia Del Norte con la Raza Latina de mi comunidad.
    Por favor tengan respecto a nuestros maestro como El Senor Liby.
    Uno puede tener diferente opiniones e descutir sin palabras sucias.
    Gracias por su tiempo y por entender lo que yo digo.

    • Go to “I Spy” “Court of the Lion” on YouTube- Parker beats up Robert Culp about halfway through. And Parker is like 34 but looks HORRIBLE! He does this weak ass front kick to a weak spinning rear kick ro something that makes no sense- he looks like a white belt. You’ll be giving me that apology! Look him up on “The Lucy Show’- HORRIBLE!

    • Someone with some sense for once! All of you that post your foul comments are doing nothing more that reflecting upon the Ed Parker Kenpo legacy and system in a very negative way. Stop sounding like a bunch of trashy 7th graders and grow up! None of it is even remotely funny.

  1479. This is being directed to Robert Libby.
    I saw the I Spy and Lucy appearances by Ed Parker and as you pointed out he didn’t look good.
    In fact, he looked terrible.
    I’m going to be a man of my word and apologize to you for the comments I made previously.
    I am going to do some research and digging to see if I can find an footage of Master Parker sparring.
    The questions I would now pose to you are these.
    With Master Parker being so unskilled technically etc why didn’t some of the real, legitimate Martial Artists of his time and era call him out on his BS?
    Why did they allow him to brainwash students and run his tournaments knowing that he wasn’t what he presented himself to be?

    • Because they mostly played the same game. Mas Oyama was even worse.
      I’ll respond more fully later. They’re doing treatments on my neck and I’m rather out of it now.
      Thans for rhe apology!

  1480. Look forward to more details from you Robert Libby.
    Interested in more Master Parker stuff and any Oyama true stories.
    Take care of the neck.

  1481. Nicolas Nixon, 2nd Dan

    What kind of blog forum is this?
    How old are all the KIDS putting disgruntled comments about American Kenpo’s creator the great Ed Parker?
    Years and years of bitching and moaning for what?
    Was it really necessary to act like a bunch of keyboard kids arguing over spilled milk?
    Opinions like assholes each one of us has a different one.
    Even the positive comments by defenders of Ed Parker have tarnish his name.
    By engaging in these stupid, ridiculous arguments you gave the “bad apples” a reason to keep lashing out.
    Everything I have read is utterly disrespectful, and will never be taken back
    ALL OF YOU have hurt Ed Parlers legacy, are you happy now?

    • Totally agree and I posted earlier. A lot of those attempting to defend the Ed Parker legacy did nothing but negate it but probably too stupid to realize and as for challenging Libby – well that is also childish and proves nothing! All of it kids stuff!
      Whether anyone thinks Ed Parker was a fraud or the father of of American Karate it cannot I believe, be denied that he did demystify Karate and Chinese Boxing to some extent. Back in the 1960’s there was a lot of intentional “mystification” of the art and I like a lot of others were led to believe that we could kill someone with a single blow. We were also taught very repetitive and less than useful techniques that were of little to no use in a real fight situation. Full contact Karate in the form of Kyokushi and Shidokan dispelled the one blow myth but that wasn’t until much later. Then we had Oyama’s top team destroyed by Muay Thai and that was after Oyama had been showcasing his style of Karate as being the strongest. Martial Arts are a religion. We all believe in our own Messiah’s and will defend them vehemently but that is no excuse for foul trash talk or pointless childish challenges that ultimately prove nothing.

    • Parker was a con man, a liar and fraud. Video evidence clearly shows this. You are in a cult.

      • I would say that Ed Parker was very good at marketing his product and like in all selling, there is a certain amount of poetic license. I think his accounts of street fights in Honolulu were exaggerated but there is no factual evidence for me to substantiate that claim or prove otherwise. All previous martial arts had cult followings and I don’t think Ed Parker’s version of Kenpo was any different in that way. He certainly did the Hollywood rounds and made all the right connections which gave his system more traction than some others. In recent years the rise in popularity of MMA has busted a lot of the myths created in the past.

  1482. Nicolas Nixon, 2nd Dan

    Rusty,
    You sound like a knowledgeable, respectful Martial Artist.
    This forum needed you a long time ago, big time!
    I am not a kenpo guy, but I respect ALL styles, and systems.
    I have trained with all kinds of kenpo people
    Some were pretty slick with the self defense technique, others when sparring were just doing regular kumite or “fair” kickboxing.
    They weren’t all bad, and I think the ones I trained with were competent enough to handle themselves.
    I just feel real bad about Ed Parker’s reputation after reading all of the things said on this forum for so long.
    They really put Ed Parker in the trash and there’s nothing that can undo the things posted.
    It served no purpose, and does nothing to detract the positive opinions of those that trained with Ed Parker or believe in the effectiveness or lack thereof of American Kenpo.
    I didn’t think I’d be back here to read but felt your comment deserved the respect of a response.
    If may ask, what rank and system are you involved in?

    • I started my martial arts back around 1967. Back then there were 3 kyu belt colors (2 in Japan) white, green and brown in the style I did. I recall taking my 7th kyu and out of around 40 students I was the only one that passed with a 2nd class pass. Back then we really had to earn our grades and be fit! Contrast that with the systems today! While I hold multiple black belts in different systems including jiu jitsu I don’t talk about it as really in the lower Dan grades today we seem to be at the point where they give them away with corn flakes! In some systems it seems to be all about money and the kids system together with the sports aspect has diluted most of them. Some years ago I switched to Chinese systems as no kids, no belt – just lots of hard work and dedicated practitioners. A long time ago before the rise of MMA I cross trained in jiu jitsu and also amateur boxing. One of my biggest criticisms of Ed Parker’s Kenpo is that it is way too much from a practical fighting standpoint. Check out Joe Lewis on Youtube and considered one of the best early Karate champions. He used a side kick and a back fist in his earlier years. No fancy Hollywood spinning or tornado kicks but did it work – he was lethal!

      • LITTLE CORRECTION- Lewis has a a back knuckle, side kick and reverse punch look up “Joe Lewis 1968 blood and guts karate”- Lewis was the only “champion” worth a shit. Also, Kenpo black belt Scott Loring took Lewis apart in a tournament in 1967 kekpo could’ve have been a great art but cult bs and greed by Ed Parker ruined it.

        • Back knuckle or back fist, uraken – semantics! Joe Lewis called it back knuckle I call it back fist! On the video he also called a knife hand or shuto a chop. I agree totally that Joe Lewis was the real deal and his side kick lethal. Originally a Shorin-Ryu practitioner. Dominique Valera definitely another all time great and as I recall appeared on a show the same same time as Ed Parker somewhere in South America and totally eclipsed him.

          • I was at the Internationals when in Lewis’ first match he sidekicked a guy in the head- like a cannot shot!
            I must point out that Lewis had few tools. Scott Loring just was so far out of Lewis’ league skills wise and Scott was so much faster with better combos. Another Kenpo guy named Carl Schalio tore Lewis up and swept him a lot. The Schalio one I wasn’t there but was for Scott Loring’s match.
            Kenpo started out great when I was there but by 1973 was well on its way to being a cult and still is one.

  1483. Joe Lewis great fighter.
    Don’t understand why he didn’t make it in Hollywood.
    He could act well enough, had the looks, and I know the chicks would have flocked to the theatres if he had worked up to a Chuck Norris level in the industry.
    Loring must have been REAL good.
    No body ever talks about Everett Eddy, or Nasty Anderson.
    I remember people saying Eddy had a glass jaw but punched pretty hard.
    My lineage is with the JKA, and sprinkles of other arts learned while training with guys from various styles.

    • I yearned with Everett “the Monsterman” Eddy. He had ketoacidosis problems and cardiovascular issues for endurance.

      • Robert Libby,
        Would you kindly elaborate more on your knowledge of Eddy and other competitors of that era that were given publicity in Black Belt magazine.
        I am intrigued and quite honestly impressed with your extensive knowledge.
        As time has allowed, I have read a lot of your answers and comments.
        I salute you for sticking to your morals and principles when others sought to belittle you.
        We, as Martial Artists should listen more, and complain less when there are seasoned master level practicioners, like you offering their experiences and opinions.

        • Okay as your polite. And this is Robert Libby!
          Also, not “yearned with Everett Eddy” but “learned.” We were training with the Urquidez brothers. He was very talented with good combos but kept gassing out. I think he carried too much weight. He told me about the ketoacidosis issue. Benny was amazing to work with and always a gentleman and professional.
          I will share some truth about Kenpo as I was there. Also, I hate people that lie about the abilities of others because they don’t like them. For example, I loathe Manny Machado as he’s a dirty player but he’s a top tier player.
          I started Kenpo in 1965 or 1966. My first teacher was Scott Loring. 6 feet and 200 and bullet quick. He fought Joe Lewis in tournament and took Lewis apart. Lewis had a sidekick, backknuckle and a reverse punch. Scott had all the arsenal.
          If you go to Google and put in “1968 Blood and Guts Karate Joe Lewis” you’ll get a tournament of champions. Of all of them only Lewis looked like anybody with authority or power. The rest looked like fools which illustrates how bad the tournament scene was and unrealistic.
          I used yo compete regularly but soon realized at 15 that tournaments were heavily rigged with almost no rules for referees.
          I used to compete in Chuck Norris’ 4 Seasons Tournament. I was competing in the green division and had won my first 3 matches. My next two guys I’d beaten before so very confident of a win. So I drew Manny Esquivel of Lima Lama. I had Steve Sanders Muhammed coaching me and he realized I was tired and brought me juice and food! Great guy! So in sudden death overtime Manny fired a spin kick that I slipped and hit Manny with a reverse punch to the back. Manny won despite 3 referees calling for me! How? I found out! His father, Sal Esquivel, was the head referee and overruled the other judges! I went nuts and went after Sal Esquivel until like 4 Kenpo guys were stopping me. So I didn’t compete for 6 years. In 1973 my students begged me to compete so I did. It was the Internationals. I won my first 2 matches. Then I drew Mike Bissell of Chuck Norris’ Tang Soo Do. I drove him out of the ring like 6 times and I should have been given a penalty point and a win. No such luck. So we go to suddem death- I lost. Mike Bissell was in “Enter the Dragon” with Pat Johnson and Darnell Garcia so you can check him out- the golf course scene with John Saxon. Well in my ring Pat Johnson head referee, 3 Norris guys in the corners and 1 TKD referee. I later asked Johnson to step outside to see who’d win in a real fight- he fled! I left tournaments permanently but did referee at a few charity events for kids.
          Many of the legends of the 1960s were in fact clowns with zero credibility for a real fight. From Kenpo here’s my list of guys from the 1960s that could fight and Ed Parker isn’t on the list- Scott Loring, Steve Sanders Muhammed, Dan Inosanto, Larry Hartsell, Tom Howard, Paul Dalton, Bob Eisele, Mark Mitchell, Carl Schalio, Vic LeRoux, and others I might not know.
          Those that I don’t think would do well in the street? Chuck Sullivan, Huk Planas, Larry Tatum and many more. Chuck fought out of a goofy cross stance, used a backknuckle a lot and was slow. Huk hit like a schoolgirl and Tatum was all flash and bs. There’s a thing I call “the grind” and they don’t have it. Larry Hartsell taught it to me but my term! Richard Dimitri xalls it “the shredder.”
          I hope you find this interesting. Ask me anything.

  1484. Any truth that he punched hard but couldn’t take shots when he stepped in contact fighting?
    Did you ever train or spar with Joe Lewis?
    Most importantly is this Scott Loring still living?
    Guess there were guys like you, Loring and others who had better skills than the famous ones like Lewis but couldn’t get the mags to give them press like they did Lewis, right?

  1485. Fareek From West Africa Now Missouri

    Is the Latin one Joshua Pestilencia still upon us?
    I now roam among us here in the region known as Missouri.
    No wild meat to eat but in hunting the smell skunk and some squirrel meat in a pot pie of my most revered region in West Africa is truly tasty.
    Pestilencia Joshua I invite you to my school of African protection for an exchange of skills.
    My feet are like concrete, my hands like hammers, my forearms like wooden oak and you might still be a joke.
    I fareek Farouroibi request that you call me at 579-675-4323.
    My food is frozen my wish has chosen you from the many years of before when you DVD master Joshua were in worldly berated me.
    I now am close in regions to the rest of the elderly geezer men of martial arts inferior to those of my homeland I bid you an open come and eat at my beautiful village condorimt.

    • I never sparred with Lewis but knew him a little. I sparred Aaron Norris, Darnell Garcia and many more top fighters.
      Ed Parker had 3 schools- Santa Monica where I was, Crenshaw and Pasadena. Crenshaw and Santa Monica were close philosophy wise and Pasadena was the Mither ship. Crenshaw and Santa Monica were better and the Inter School trophy stayed in Santa Monica. Crenshaw was tough but we had a little more talent.
      In one inter-school tournament a guy from Pasadena we called Baby Huey was going at it with Bob Eusele. Huey was like 6’3″ and Bob was like 5’7. Huey kicked Bob in the face with a sidekick and knocked out Bob’s front teeth- Bob spit out his teeth and just kept coming at Huey. So it got stopped to find Bob’s teeth!
      I was on the team at age 15 and everybody was 18 or older so I trained with men as a kid. I was at that time the youngest guy to ever be let on the team. I was sparring 25 year old men as a teenager and it helped me. My proudest day was outside of the school. I was outside and Scott Loring came to talk to me and say goodbye to me. He had pulled up in his former cop car and told me I was a good martial artist and not to give up and keep going. He had graduated from UCLA and moving on with his wife.
      Stay in touch.

      • You are a great Martial Artists and honest man.
        Everything you’ve said and the names mentioned have earned you my respect.
        If there is more interesting experiences from you fighting and Martial Art history please comment more and often.
        Be well Sir.

      • Trice Say The New And Improved Dice

        Trice Say here.
        Just like you, I also been working on new material.
        Enjoy, get a laugh, and ha ha ha away.
        Bacala smells and so do somebody’s feet, the odors atrocious now go brush your teeth.
        Eddie had some real fast slaps whose palms were soft as silk, those sweaty claws still smell like dung, the odor wiped the kilt.
        Kenpo is great so are the arts deadlier than whose farts…we all know.
        Wolfie Cohen, Abby Dumperstinks, Rosie’s lips are like jolly rancher gummies.

  1486. OK, ok…Fareek now challenge ANYONE on this forum to a bare hand and bare feet bout of knockout fighting.
    My tribal leader to me, what Parker was to Kenpo fan, will give the winner $5000 US and a dinner date with Talisha Omikaeena a Nigerian model more lovely than the bachelorette but with a bbw physique.
    Who here, of the many big men with bragging mouth wish to be hit by my calloused feet and iron like knuckle from practicing Momasgoshtu the ancient African Martial Art?
    My wish is to put my feet on the bones of high Kenpo masters but youngin ones like peterner, his fighting senior Gregory, and all the other distinguished slappers both school taught or video learned.
    I wish to report that if the Kenpo man beat me, I will add $3000 of my own dollars as a sign of being beaten by practicing Kenpo people.
    I sit here in my Missouri home reading for response from anybody from years of past to 2023 to reply to my battle call.
    Awoi, awoi, chagaturanga jijinomup, jinomup.
    Fareek

  1487. What’s that septic like stench?
    Someone on this blog practices his art for five days BUT doesn’t bathe, who is it?
    Kenpo J, Michael Brooks, Greg Payne, WHO?
    All the aforementioned black belts smell horribly.
    They don’t wipe their arses correctly so they walk around with a brown streak and pungent odor, they only brush once weekly which is conducive to extreme halitosis, and using facial wipes to cleanse their rancid physiques is utterly deplorable, disgusting, and downright DIRTY!
    Please honor yourselves and adhere to good hygiene.

  1488. This is an excellent blog with interesting insight and tons of arguments.
    I am ranked expert level in American Combato under the late, legendary
    Professor Brad Steiner.
    Professor Steiner was the first to advocate weight training for self defense development.
    The system, American Combato ranks right up there with legitimate Krav Maga as taught by the IKMF, and in certain training circumstances it’s authentic methods surpass 99% of the most effective street systems and without a doubt any kenpo methods.
    I will be setting up a YouTube instructional channel teaching the basics of American Combato for those interested in effective, reliable, sustainable self defense.
    Thank you.
    Respectfully,
    Brad Romano, Expert with 22 years of hands on training under Professor Brad Steiner.

    • Combato is as big of a joke as Kenpo. It’s utter horseshit and will never work. Nice attempt for free advertising though.

      • Not familiar with the style but when anyone describes themselves as an expert I question the validity. I see that some Youtube guy claims that Ed Parker had a fight Bruce Lee and lost after 10 minutes! Comments please as I find this a hilarious story.

      • Well let’s throw somebody under the bus.
        Mr. Robert Libby why is Combato a joke and how do you know it will never work?
        Did you train, study, or research the teachings and development of Professor Steiners methods?
        Why are you an authority on what works and what doesn’t?
        Please, I implore you to eliminate American Combato from the same comments about Kenpo, Ed Parker, or other systems that are no where near what AC is, ok Mr. Libby?
        Your audacity is beyond comprehension.
        Professor Steiner was a legend, who developed a remarkable system backed by experience.
        He was a pioneer of weight training as an added asset for self defense.
        Professor Steiner actually worked out with legendary bodybuilders in New York.
        One, in particular, the late Harold Poole, himself a Martial Artist used his skills on the street.
        American Combato IS effective, is NOTHING like Kenpo, and Professor Bradley J Steiner was nothing like Ed Parker.
        The professor talked the talk, and walked the walk…HE TRAINED unlike some well known lazy grandmasters.
        American Combato…Attack The Attacker.
        2023 American Combato…Brutalize The Attacker Without Mercy.

        • First gaping hole in your argument- Steiner trained with bodybuilders. So what? Bodybuilders are total punks and can’t fight. You obviously know squat about fighting. I’ll comment more later on your bs- recovering from a medical rocedure.

        • Okay- You can barely find ANYTHING on American Combato except for two old guys that are clueless.
          Please look up American Combato headlock defense on YouTube pathetic isn’t even close to how bad it is. In the intro the guy says “a headlock is a dangerous hold and coukd break your neck”- highly doubtful. Then he does the technique so badly I started laughing. They have zero grappling skills and are 100% clueless on fighting. It’s so bad that it made Ed Parker almost look competent!
          PLEASE LOOK IT UP IF YOU’RE READING THIS!!!!

        • Why is it that all I can find on American Combato is 2 old guys in somebody’s basement that don’t know shit about fighting? The guy putting on the headlock knew nothing about wrestling. They know nothing about anything.
          I actually had a copy of “Get Tough” by Major W.E. Fairbairn written in 1942 that my dad gave me whuch is your root. A lot of it is “sneak up on the sentry and put your dagger into his sub-clavian artery.” Next time I’m attacking a Nazi barracks I’ll keep that in mind. You live in a comic book like many martial arts looney tunes and don’t have a clue.

          • Dearest Mr. Libby,
            Those two basement guys are seasoned AC guys but unfortunately they don’t train religiously.
            Professor Bryans is actually the successor to Professor Steiner.
            As for your bodybuilders can’t fight comment, ever hear of Harold Poole, Dennis Tinerino, Sergio Olivia, and even Franco Columbus?
            Everyone of those mentioned had a reputation for knocking guys cold on the street.
            Poole was a legit black belt and Franco was lightweight boxing champ in Italy before turning to the iron.
            Take you nasty know it all nonsense elsewhere!
            You may know a few things but you know little about the effectiveness of AMERICAN COMBATO.
            Put some respect on the system Mr. Libby because it’s real and it works!
            Oh…we do have throws and sweeps, but emphasize not going to the ground.
            One on one going to the ground could turn into one on one plus rocks, glass, concrete.
            Who the hell wants to roll around on concrete?
            Learn to respect those who started training long before you.
            And, research the late, great Professor Steiner, my senior master before you make nasty comments and comparasions to Steiner and Ed Parker.
            Feel free to open your big mouth, but come back with some credible rebuttals based off of your deligent research.
            Get up off your rump and STUDY the research on my system American COMBATO so that you may articulate your disgruntled feelings in a cohesive manner.

          • Like all TMA you make excuses. They’re two out of shape clowns that know Jack shit.

          • See, see…you are disgruntled Mr. Libby!!
            I make 0 excuses it’s a fact that the cement ground outside is a no-no.
            Do you even know our curriculum Mr. Libby?
            We don’t do kata, our self defense drills address all the attacks from the street, we don’t spar because we believe sparring, even full force is not like a street attack where you are jumped, by surprise, and must execute maiming techniques quickly and without mercy.
            Plus, no matter how good you spar, full power, boxing, or Thai style when you age your motor skills erode.
            What American Combato emphasizes are techniques that work when your young or if your an elderly senior.
            You need to get with reality Mr. Libby.
            Are you as fast and powerful as you were in your young years?
            If you had to defend quickly would you punch some thug or rather palm the chin and get it done fast with a guarantee it’s over?
            Can you kick as good as you did 10 years ago?
            Has your health and aging affected your braggadocio skills of the past?
            AC looks simple, and may not impress those like you who allegedly trained with celebrity martial artists, but it has impressed those of us who used it on the street and most definitely it impressed the bums who tried to assault us and found themselves sleeping, or so messed up they didn’t look the same.
            Our systems track record in actual encounters has a 99% success rate.
            The 1 % neg was due to a panic stricken beginning student who didn’t have enough time in to develop the mindset or killer instinct necessary for a successful defense when you face some street punk intent on doing harm.
            Open your mind, ACCEPT the fact that there ARE systems greater than anything you’ve learned, and individuals as tough or tougher than you, who don’t brag or open wide with nonsense.

          • Hope you recovered adequately enough to respond or rebuttal my latest comment on your trashing of…. AMERICAN COMBATO!!!
            Bradley J. Steiner was a legendary ICON!
            In his prime, on the street, the REAL proving ground I’d pick him over prime Joe Lewis, Erquidez, Vunick, or any other fighting martial artists.
            Professor Steiner was skilled in viciousness when applying AMERICAN COMBATO in the real.
            What you Mr. Libby must understand, comprehend, and admit to is that sparring even full out like in boxing, Thai, or even the newer combat sport of mixed martial arts has NOTHING to do with street fighting.
            A street fight is sneaky, unplanned, and gives you no time to set up and prepare.
            You must take the most lethal technique to the attacker/attackers fast and WITHOUT MERCY.
            Ear rips, eye gouges, throat chops, groin grab and pulls, hair grab and surrounding slams combined with knee kicks, elbow smashes, and knee thrusts are the BEST weapons to end things quickly and successfully.
            It’s not about jabbing setting up cross punches, footwork, submissions, or taking three to land one Mr. Libby.
            The select few remaining loyal and experts of the AMERICAN COMBATO system KNOW what works and our system, created by the late, great PROFESSOR BRADLEY J. STEINER is the MOST EFFECTIVE self defense system on the PLANET.
            No brag, just proven fact.

  1489. In defense of my decades worth of training under Bradley J. Steiner and the American Combato system I find it necessary to educate those doubters who left negative comments.
    Firstly, please do not link Professor Steiner and American Combato to Ed Parker and his American Kenpo system.
    What Steiner taught, and I’ve perfected is light years ahead of ANY Kenpo system in terms of practical self defense.
    Professor Steiner, unlike Ed Parker actually trained and lifted weights for many decades up until his passing several years ago.
    The professor a former New Yorker, trained under the legendary Charles Nelson and hit the iron frequently at the famed “Mid City Gym” in the heart of the big apple often lifting alongside bodybuilding greats like Freddy Ortiz, Harold Poole, Dennis Tinerino, and others.
    American Combato participants and instructors alike place a heavy emphasis on sensible weight training and reliable, basic, effective techniques and drills.
    Many of our white belts, both men AND women have successfully defended themselves from street assaults.
    We do not play when it concerns practicallity.
    Just as important, and unlike Kenpo, or Parker, Professor Steiner did not hand rank out.
    The proof is in the history of American Combato, only a handful of individuals have earned black belt rank or instructor status from the late Professor.
    Our system and it’s lineage going back to Fairbarin, Sykes, and even Jack Dempsey because we include some of Dempsey’s footwork and positional torquing into our strikes is unmatched even by today’s standards.
    American Combato is not a sport or spar proving system..
    it is the real deal.
    Professor Steiner’s catchphrase “Attack The Attacker” has been renamed by me to, “Brutalize The Attacker WITHOUT Mercy”.

  1490. Well…are the negative commentators going to offer a response or rebuttal?
    After all, you openly and erroneously put the American Combato system in the same category as that of the inferior and ineffective Kenpo.
    Here’s my proposition.
    Come back in, and I in turn, will provide a one time video on YouTube demonstrating American Combato against resisting opponents, non martial Artists spontaneously attacking me as I showcase defenses against unprovoked attacks, pushing counters, haymaker defenses, tackle attempts, knife, and our three preferred gun defenses that put Krav Maga gun defenses to shame.
    I will do this ONLY if and when those who put down AC and indirectly Bradley J Steiner response or reply.

  1491. Brad "American Combato" Romano

    I await a response from ROBERT LIBBY!!!
    You were vocal enough to lay into American Combato and I replied to your comment.
    Now, it is YOU who must come out into the world of rebuttles and defend what you said
    because I, BRAD ROMANO stand by my defense of the late, GREAT PROFESSOR BRADLEY J. STEINER and his fool proof system AMERICAN COMBATO!!!
    Let’s hear your naysayer opinion fight expert Robert Libby.
    Tell ME…US here why AMERICAN COMBATO is not a worthy, street effective self defense system.
    If you can’t respond due to medical recovery or because your physically ill, do so as soon as you can.

    • Meet me in an alley and see what happens. I announced years ago, 2014, that I was coming to LA. I challenged Kenpo dipshit Steve Shaffer and told him I’d fly to Florida and use zero offensive weapons and defeat all his Kenpo techniques easily by not cooperating- he whined like the little bitch he is. Not one of the punks on this site would face me. Shaffer said the Leon County Sheriff would arrest me if I came to his school and he’s 4th. Dan! What a cowardly puke! And he bragged about being a veteran!
      A promoter wanted a grudge match between Irish Billy Mack and coward Joshua Pestaner with a cash prize of a few thousand- what an opportunity to show your Kenpo skills! Pestaner wet his pants, ignored the challenge and proved he and Greg Payne are totally worthless cunts and total chickenshits. Billy and I were in but we know how to fight.
      Why would I waste more time with a Combato Cunt trained by other Cunts? You’re dots on a screen and all I’ve seen of you cunts means you’re worthless. I’m 72 in February and I’m quite sure I could still choke your punk ass out in seconds but it’s just not worth my time.

  1492. Professor Brad Romano

    I’m responding out of respect.
    I didn’t know you were 72 Robert Libby.
    Not that age makes you less capable, I just would have checked out of this website knowing that you’re close in age to that of the Professor and I wouldn’t want somebody giving him any grief on the internet.
    I’ll drop it from here as you have your opinion, I have mine.
    My comment wasn’t meant to get a rise out of you either, I simply want to know why you dislike my system as much as your hatred for Kenpo, Parker and all his followers.
    Fact is that regardless of what you viewed on the YouTube channel, American Combato has never failed me in four self defense encounters and one street fight in a Milwaukee bar.

  1493. Hey ROBERT LIBBY listen to what I am directing to you… SHUT YOUR MOUTH!!!
    DO NOT put Brad Steiner’s name or his system in any of your slanderous comments ever… understood?
    I will not stand for your bullshit the way these paper tiger kenpoists have for years, and years.
    Keep your beefs about street defense and what does or doesn’t work within the repetitive talk between you and the Parker clan and practicing American Kenpo people.
    I’m one of the “old guys” in the video you referenced negatively and I don’t appreciate it you tough talking, senior citizen.
    You either have a lot of nerve or testicles the size of softballs to talk about people you’ve never met.
    What you saw was a slow, basic demonstration you nagging neantherthal.
    HUSH UP, SHUT UP, and DO NOT talk about me, or Brad Steiner’s system UNLESS you have something positive to contribute.

      • American Combato

        Somewhere over the toilet turds will drop, that’s because Robert Libby has a Viagra needing c–k.
        If you enter the bathroom after Bob, the smell will make you vomit cause he’s a slob.
        Can Lib admit to us here, if he’s real, I say his breath is rancid cause a grizzly it would kill.
        I’m only 34 years old and a master of combat and that’s a fact, Jack!!!
        Sush Libby, close your trap!!!!!
        Say nuthin capiece?

        • To you and anyone else who uses that type of language; you really need to stop as it shows your lack of command of the English language, your immaturity and your total lack of respect for Martial Arts. You say you are 34 years of age -Right? Going on 14 years of age! Everyone has their opinion and just because you don’t agree you descend into trashy gutter talk – grow up as no true Martial Arts person will ever think more highly of you for it or take you seriously!

          • Rusty,
            This is the only language that BRUTE Libby understands.
            He’s the real deal and all, but has done nothing but put down kenpo and martial arts for years.
            He used toilet language first.
            Then, he bad mouths my teacher Professor Bradley who passed away a few years back.
            You get what you give and he doesn’t respect me or AC by Professor Steiner.
            If my trashing of him offended you, sorry.
            He gave me no other choice

          • Mark – You do have another choice and that is to ignore him. In life I find there are maybe three types of people whose opinions I value:
            Friends, family, and people I respect. For the rest I ignore them. I suggest you do the same. I participate in this forum with the view of keeping an open mind and to learn different and opposing viewpoints . I don’t think that the use of bad or offensive language serves any purpose. I also think that throwing out wild challenges to fight serves no purpose in proving ones flavor of a particular style is better than another. The better style is the one that we, as individuals, feel the most comfortable with and works for us. There will always be those, no matter how bad a particular style or system is, that is able to beat someone from a supposedly superior system, because of the persons natural ability to fight and mindset. A Japanese Karate instructor once said to us as students – “get into street fights and find out what works and what doesn’t”. And that is the reality. As for those of us that don’t want to do that we may well be forever chasing shadows and illusions!

          • Pure bs. I was attacked by a Snibbs Jervey and others first so shut up. I blast Kenpo because it’s bullshit.
            Let’s look at this site- Kenpo Black Belt Joshua Pestaner proved he’s a lying coward that used multiple names. He wouldn’t fight Billy Mack. Steve Shaffer wouldn’t even have me come to show why Kenpo is a total failure and he whined like a little schoolgirl and said if I ever showed up he’d have ne arrested by the Leon County Sheriff! For what? What a craven coward! Typical Kenpo pussy!
            Funny that Ed Parker also ran and had behind his wife Lelani! Such a stud!
            Show where I lied just now?

    • First of all you’re “directing” me to do something? How cute! Try this- fuck you and Brad Steiner. In around 2014 I posted on this site that I was coming back, gave the dates and states I’d be in- not one Kenpo Kunt would face me or any system and I was in my
      60s! Combato is horseshit and be careful what you wish for or grandpa might choke you out! Now try to remove your cock from Brad Steiner’s mouth for awhile! Got the point bitch?

  1494. You repulsive reptile!
    You’re the toughest keyboard kunt on this blog of blubbering bitches and you ROBERT LIBBY are at the top of the talking tough and tenacious tigers.
    Brad couldn’t have beaten you in a sports setting your idolizer of karate legends, but if he had to defend himself against a brute like you he’d have you on your knees no problem!!!
    I’m 65 and I have no respect for losers like you.
    I defend my Brad, Combato against people like you… ALWAYS!!!!

  1495. I’m still seeding about your comment your foul smelling fat fuck!
    I’ll be the one to shut up that mouth of yours by using what I posses that you don’t… intelligence!!!
    You put down Parker, Steiner, Kenpo, Combato and promote your brutish, primitive, and neanderthal skills LIBBY?
    Why don’t you bragging butt breath practice more and defame less?
    Because you’re a lazy idolizer of point fighters from the 70’s, that’s why!
    You are not up with the modern, proven, and realistic systems like BRADLEY J. STEINER’S AMERICAN COMBATO!
    As one of Professor Steiner elite black belts I must stand up and protect his legendary name against bad mouthing, bottom of the barrel 70’s karate “guys” like you, Libby.
    I have put you in your place defending your outlandish jibberish towards US, the real self defense fighters.
    You my dear “once was” are no longer relevant on this forum.
    I am putting you in the trash where your trash talking nonsense belongs.
    Robert Libby is not longer going to bully individuals on this blog.
    He is a legend in the land of landfills.

  1496. Listen Mark B AKA “Mark Bitch”.
    I think your somebody from the past using a fictional name to hide because your a full blown punk!
    Be a man, take your nose out of Steiner’s ass, and post under your real name you reality self defense sissy!
    When your done smelling your instructors rectum, get back on your knees and give him better lip service than your ridiculous comments!
    Now, think about that you Combato Cunt!

    • Sorry guys but he’s lying- this is actually Robert Libby. You can tell by the childish language.
      Merry Xmas to all and Happy New Year!

      • Dear Mr. Libby,
        I am starting a YouTube channel in two months and it would be an honor to interview you as my first guest.
        I would like to get your perspective of
        street fighting, self defense, and just your general opinion on why most Martial studies are not realistic for the purpose of defending.
        If there is a more professional method to communicate, please elaborate.
        After reading quite a bit of the different viewpoints from all the experts here and wondering why they seem to disagree with your perspective on the topic, you’d be the perfect guest.

        • Okay, I’m in Los Angeles. Video interview or in person?

          • Video preferred as I am in Tempe.
            Mr. Libby, this is an independent contractor interview as their is no compensation.
            However, you will be able to establish a social media presence and that may spiral into more press or interviews for you futuristically.
            Kindly advise as to the next step in our process.

  1497. Libby that was not me your delusional.
    Whoever posted that become an adult in 2024.
    Happy Holidays to all, and yes, you also Libby from AMERICAN COMBATO elite instructor Mark Burns.

  1498. Sniff, sniff…whew!
    I am over here in LA and I can’t believe I crossed paths with the beast of beatings, the brute of beat downs, the rough, tough, and all kinds of stuff Master Robert Libby of Libby’s Street Fighting Martial Arts style!
    For all here’s the visual.
    He’s about 6″0, probably 250-275 big linebacker upper body, a gut, but no worse physically than Ed Parker.
    He looked like he hadn’t shaved in four days, surprisingly not too yellowing teeth, but when he took a breath, well the air that came out was strong enough to stop a grizzly.
    From his debonair, shop worn looks, he certainly gave the impression of, “f— with me and I’ll bash you like a watermelon.
    I must admit that as my girlfriend and I passed him and upon getting to our apartment on Wilshire Blvd we both started to simultaneously crap and vomit as the powerful stench had stuck to our extremely expensive and fashionable clothes.
    So for all the doubters here, the kenpo champs, and fluid blockers of star techniques Robert Libby IS a very SCARY looking BRUTE!
    HiYA!
    American Combato.

  1499. Is the man of the hour, the blazing saddles of self defense Sensee Robert Libby in our region?
    Wait…let me open the window of my beautiful room at the Boneventure and take a wif….him, smog with a delicious stench of bulk, rough BO, and a sprinkle of stink.
    Yup, Robert Libby is near my dear.
    Look he practicing his style of brute beat down on Crenshaw give him a high five and bow when you cross his circle of garlic air.
    I command ROBERT LIBBY to RESPOND or forever be known as a hater of kenpo, Martial Arts, vaul Punak, PE Parker , and Justin Bieber!!!

    • Thanks for proving you’re about 5. I rather like a few of Bieber’s songs.

      • Yeah, yeah…bah hum bog!
        And your reply got the attention of your favorite singer Justin Bieber.
        Now go teach Bieber your caveman defenses and maybe “Biev” will hire you as his bodyguard.
        I read he pays good too like 250K per year.
        Teach Justin your brutish bust you up style and leave American Combato alone!!!!

  1500. Gentlemen,
    You will not believe me, but this IS
    Justin Bieber.
    As most of you may already know, I train in boxing and have also experienced some Martial Arts through my bodyguard relationships.
    One of my longtime friends dating back to my Canadian roots is a black belt in Kenpo-Jitsu a style of Martial Art developed by a former student of Theriault.
    It was he who informed me that I was being mentioned in a comment on this website, and not in a very good way by the entire message to Robert Libby.
    I backtracked and read all the comments and arguments going back at least ten years.
    Respectfully I am requesting that “Mark” refrain from mentioning me in comments that are being directed to “Libby”.
    I am a high profile professional in the music industry not in the business of debates on a website that for all intents and purposes caters to very childish behaviors.
    I do not appreciate having my name used to bolster the legitimacy of this website.
    It is extremely unprofessional to expose me to possible commentary that can spiral into my profession.
    It only takes one individual in the press to see my name used in immature behavioral commentary to accuse me of being a part of something that could turn me into the laughing stock of music.
    I wish each and everyone of you peace and truly hope that you are able to put this extremely childish commentary behind you.
    To those here that enjoy my music, thank you.
    It is nice to know that I have a fan base within the Martial Arts community.

  1501. Harold Williamson

    Hopefully this will end all of the negative back and forth dialogue.
    Robert Libby is an original student of Parker’s, and has real world expertise in several self defense systems.
    He’s been involved in martial arts since the early 70’s and that alone would put him at a master level ranking.
    He is more than capable, and is an excellent source of information when it comes to practical self defense.
    If he says kenpo is not a workable system, that’s good enough for all of us.
    When you challenge and push the buttons of a seasoned fighter like Libby, a guy who has trained with, been around, and seen the best fighters of multiple era’s you can expect to receive not so nice responses.
    Disagree, but leave the guy alone, don’t disrespect anyone who comes from his martial arts lineage.
    All of us, Libby, me, and the rest of you deserve respect as martial artists.

    • Exactly! Debate, agree or disagree we all have opinions based upon our experience but don’t denigrate into bad language.

      • Actually I started in judo in 1959 at 7 with my brother. My father’s
        tax accountant, Bill Asimow, was a Yondan( 4th. Dan in judo) and my brother, 3 years older, started then.

      • Senor Rusty,
        Nobody here is good peoples.
        These abuelos has bin talking caca many year and still acts like teenagers.
        Must all be like 70, 80 si?
        Maestro parkers fast for a fat men.
        And Kempo ok.
        No offense to you amigo pero no read and listen to these mentirosos.

  1502. This web blog is joke!
    Peoples like Mark, lib, and nowz this risy guy talk all too much.
    My name is ortencio Tingo Ganos.
    My art is ecrima la cuchiyo and Navaja.
    Combine Filipino system and sone Mexican knife strike into arnis de Palo.
    Stop all talk everyone and go retire in nursings hone you all very elder chat chit old men talk bore.

  1503. I am here to direct the following challenge to Mr. Robert Libby.
    You have offended Mr. Parker, Kenpo, traditional Martial Arts for much to long.
    Enough is enough!!!
    I accept your challenge Mr. Libby.
    Where, when, and what set of rules if any?
    Are you on the West Coast?
    If not, and I travel to Asia, will I have to worry about getting strong armed by your gang of thugs, or have my passport taken?
    Is there monetary compensation or is this strictly for bragging rights?
    My base is American Kenpo, I wrestled in high school DECADES ago, and the only Western boxing I’ve done is self taught through the pounding of bags.
    I am 5″10, 241 pounds, and I will be 67 in May.
    Like you I’ve had injuries.
    Broken nose, hand, slipped disc, some pre diabetic issues now under control, and two years ago I was dealing with fibromyalgia.
    Health is fine now, I am able to go at it with someone my age.
    With that put out there, it is your choice whether to accept or, ignore.
    Either way, I have accepted and am here to show you or any other doubters that kenpo works, age is a state of mind, and one can still kick ass and take names even if they are injury prone AARP recipients.
    I, DEVIN JONES is challenging ROBERT LIBBY to a PUT UP or HUSH UP match under his directive of rules and conditions, one against one.

  1504. FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
    Robert Libby has failed to respond to my challenge.
    I, DEVIN have beaten the yapper ROBERT LIBBY via default.
    Mr. Libby was given ample time to respond and deny or accept.
    His silence says it all.
    He was SCARED of being outclassed by someone his age and with similar types of injuries.
    Devin Jones DEFEATS Robert Libby.

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